Home Brewing

[SnotBag]

Two of my very favorite things come from Germany: brats and doppelbock. 

Hmmmmmm Dopplebock - Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock



http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/ayinger-celebrator-doppelbock/1090/14351/

Celebrator has a creamy head of tight bubbles contrasting beautifully with its profound dark robe. It is full-bodied and velvety from half a year's aging. Although it is strong, it is not overpowering. There is a wonderful and complex balance between the various malts, the alcohol and the subtle hops. A complex fruitiness of roasted malt and whole hop flowers make Celebrator great as a party drink with friends and family at celebrations. Despite its richness, it has a faintly smoky dryness in the finish.

I have a recipe to brew this beer...
http://members.cox.net/~krcotter/Dopplebock.pdf

[voodoolily]

Yummmmmmmy. What about the Erdinger Dunkelweissen? Dang, I love a hefedunkel.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Small world ... I have tried that exact recipe.  I can't get it right :(  Seriously, everytime I try to make a dopplebock it just comes out so-so.  Not bad, but not nearly as good as pub or storebought.  I've played around with the hopping ratio, different brands of malt, etc and nothing works.  Every other beer (except lambics, and that's a disaster) I've tried I can nail it after a half dozen batches or so.  Dopplebock eludes me.

[voodoolily]

Small world ... I have tried that exact recipe. I can't get it right :( Seriously, everytime I try to make a dopplebock it just comes out so-so. Not bad, but not nearly as good as pub or storebought. I've played around with the hopping ratio, different brands of malt, etc and nothing works. Every other beer (except lambics, and that's a disaster) I've tried I can nail it after a half dozen batches or so. Dopplebock eludes me.

Have you tried using candy sugar to ferment the yeast? I believe that's what Trappist monks use for Belgian beers, to acquire the characterstic sweetness to which I liken the headiness of a bock. Have you tried triple-fermenting? If you're double-fermenting and not getting the results, you might try making a trippel and see if you end up with a doppel.

Mmmm...lambic. Especially peche. In a frosted wine glass.

[Shockeye]

Seeing as how the topic has turned quite a bit, I've split off the home brewing stuff.

[voodoolily]

Why do I keep changing threads? That's twice today that's happened.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Have you tried using candy sugar to ferment the yeast? I believe that's what Trappist monks use for Belgian beers, to acquire the characterstic sweetness to which I liken the headiness of a bock. Have you tried triple-fermenting? If you're double-fermenting and not getting the results, you might try making a trippel and see if you end up with a doppel.

Mmmm...lambic. Especially peche. In a frosted wine glass.

Ugh, candy sugar gives that sodapop flavor so prevalent in American brews.  That said, I did try it a few times, and it dramatically increased the alcohol content, which totally threw off the flavor.  Maybe I just used too much or too little?  Ratio of cane sugar to malt was off?

The Belgians historically used locally produced fruit that they stewed down into a compote, then open-air fermented with malted grains.  That's what I do to make cherry wheat beer, and it turns out fabulous, without that cough-syrup flavor you get with many mass-produced cherry wheat beers.  It just doesn't work for me with any bock beer.  All my homebrew friends mock me because they can make it, quite well in fact.  I think I just suck!

[SnotBag]

Small world ... I have tried that exact recipe.  I can't get it right :(  Seriously, everytime I try to make a dopplebock it just comes out so-so.  Not bad, but not nearly as good as pub or storebought.  I've played around with the hopping ratio, different brands of malt, etc and nothing works.  Every other beer (except lambics, and that's a disaster) I've tried I can nail it after a half dozen batches or so.  Dopplebock eludes me.

You tried that exact recipe? That's a personal clone recipe of a friend of mine, I was converting them to pdf for him.

A tougher style to brew than a simple IPA or Porter. First thing to keep in mind would be proper lagering temps. As for the actual brewing Germans tend to use a decoction mash, somebody mentioned multiple fermentations - that's a Belgian trick, not needed for a Dopplebock, and the addition of candi sugar would violate the Bavarian Beer Purity Act of 1516 (AKA The Reinheitsgebot). What kind of yeast do you use, and did you make a starter?

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/columns/style1.html

[schild]

I was converting them to pdf for him.

What a horrible friend.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Well not exactly, but with only 2 differences:  I use 3/4 pound Crystal instead of 1/2, and I use different proportions of hops in bittering and flavoring (still Hallertauer though).  I nabbed my recipe from my local homebrew shop.

I've never done a decoction mash.  I cut my teeth on the step-infusion method that everyone uses, but abandoned that because, with much less effort, all-extract produced the same quality for the other beers I make.  I still have the equipment to do mashing, I could give that a go.  I always do a secondary fermentation, perhaps that's my problem too.  I doubt lagering temperature is my problem, I have a temperature-controlled freezer and I dial it at the recommended temperature for the yeast.

As to my yeast, I used the White Labs Oktoberfest yeast, can't remember the number off the top of my head.  I didn't use a starter, just pitched at the appropriate temperature.

I'm with you on the Purity Law.  I only tried cane sugar at the advice of someone at my local shop.  It didn't turn out well, and I really should've known that.  It was higher in alcohol and lower in flavor, just like good ol' prohibition ale.

[SnotBag]

I've never done a decoction mash.  I cut my teeth on the step-infusion method that everyone uses, but abandoned that because, with much less effort, all-extract produced the same quality for the other beers I make.  I still have the equipment to do mashing, I could give that a go.  I always do a secondary fermentation, perhaps that's my problem too.  I doubt lagering temperature is my problem, I have a temperature-controlled freezer and I dial it at the recommended temperature for the yeast.

As to my yeast, I used the White Labs Oktoberfest yeast, can't remember the number off the top of my head.  I didn't use a starter, just pitched at the appropriate temperature.

I've never done a decoction either, I might try one for my next Czech Pilsner.

I'm a Wyeast guy myself, more yeast cells in the XL smack pack, plus all the proper nutients. The Oktoberfest yeast may also leave a more malty profile than your looking for in a dopplebock, I think White Labs does have a bock yeast German Bock Lager Yeast
(WLP833). I'd still have to recommend the Wyeast and a starter, make a starter no matter what. Wyeast #2308 Munich Lager Yeast –or- Wyeast #2633 Oktoberfest Lager Yeast.

Another thing that really makes my yeast do well is an oxygenator, I pump pure oxygen directly to my wort prior to pitching yeast. Lagers will benefit from more cells being pitched, therefore a starter is recommended for most lagers.

I'm not sure, having not tasted your dopplebock, what was out of style so I'll cover the basics. The lager fridge is great, did you do a diacetyl rest?

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-4.html

This is cool, I don't get to geek out on fermentation sciences very often!

[Jayce]

Yummmmmmmy. What about the Erdinger Dunkelweissen? Dang, I love a hefedunkel.

/seconded

I've always been interested in homebrewing, and you guys are making me want to pursue it!

I even know a thing or two about yeast fermentation, having made a lot of homemade bread in my day.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Another thing that really makes my yeast do well is an oxygenator, I pump pure oxygen directly to my wort prior to pitching yeast. Lagers will benefit from more cells being pitched, therefore a starter is recommended for most lagers.

I'm not sure, having not tasted your dopplebock, what was out of style so I'll cover the basics. The lager fridge is great, did you do a diacetyl rest?

That's interesting that you say that, I've never tried using an oxygenator.  I've only done a diacetyl rest once, on a classic pilsner recipe, and I couldn't tell the difference.  Though pilsners are probably the most forgiving lagers.  I'll try doing the diacetyl thing on my next batch.

[SnotBag]

That's interesting that you say that, I've never tried using an oxygenator.

I just had to by an oxygen stone after the presentation by Chris White last year at the AHA National Homebrewers Conference last year in Vegas. He described how little oxygen you get in your wort by shaking your fermentor compared to pushing pure oxygen through a stone. I just booked this years' conference in Baltimore, are you going?

The easiest way to learn a bunch and improve your beers is to join the local homebrew club and to take the BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) classes. With the club I can see how many ways there are to do a task, and choose the one that works best for me, or I can attend regular brewouts and split batches. The BJCP classes have helped me refine my palate and nose while giving me a better technical perspective on brewing.

Next up, I'm starting to formulate a Sticke Altbier, a style that has almost been lost.

[Sky]

Thanks for spinning this off, I had no idea this was being discussed. Putting in a little brewery is part of the plans for my homestead. I also intend on building a still and turning any 'bad batches' into white lightning.

Gotta get over this damned savings hump, it's killing me. It's like putting life on hold for a couple years while I just save money.

I even know a thing or two about yeast fermentation, having made a lot of homemade bread in my day.

Hey, let's derail the derail-becomes-new-thread! :) I've been in the habit of making a pizza dough (because it's fast an easy) and sauce every friday night and using it over the weekend to make all kinds of easy food, from pizza (gasp!) to calzones, garlic strips, etc. Can't beat eating all weekend for like $5-10 (that whole budgeting thing again).

I'm crazy pizza dough guy, last week I was making it with chicken stock, turned out way too salty, but it was a fun experiment. I thank Graham Kerr for encouraging experimentation in the kitchen (before he got into "healthy" cooking).

[SnotBag]

I've always been interested in homebrewing, and you guys are making me want to pursue it.

Big Brew is coming up soon.

Find your local club or brewshop and they'll tell you where they are doing Big Brew. I can help if it's in MN or AZ. Brewouts are a blast and usually involve brewing, grilling, and drinking!

Here are the current registered sites;
http://www.beertown.com/events/bigbrew/Bigbrewselect2.aspx

[voodoolily]

I, too, have been wanting to try home brewing. Like Sky, I tend to make most of my food from scratch (the whole growing up poor thing again). Coupled with a degree in biology, a snobby palate and culinary creativity, home brewing has always sounded like a good idea. I have ideas for a ginger snap porter, using fresh ginger and allspice berries and blackstrap molasses. If anybody wants to try that one (or has), lemme know how it goes.

[Jayce]

I'm crazy pizza dough guy, last week I was making it with chicken stock, turned out way too salty, but it was a fun experiment.

My latest favorite thing is a half cup of whole wheat rye flour with 3/4 cups all purpose in a pizza dough.

/derail

[MaceVanHoffen]

I haven't gotten around to taking any classes, though I keep meaning to.  And, the only brewing conventions I've been to have been the small ones around Phoenix (where I used to live).  I might have to look into those BJCP classes you mention.

[CmdrSlack]

Arg!  You guys are killin me!

I had the world's most beautiful brewing setup (well, starter setup, but it was mine and I loved it) years ago.  Sadly, the damn thing was stolen in a move.  I'm talking everything. 

So now here I am, living in Chicago, and I know there HAS to be a brewing supply store, but I can't for the life of me find one.  I used to get my stuff shipped to me from Brewmasters in Sarasota, FL, but I would rather buy local.

Does anyone know of a reputable and cheap shop that does mail order?  It's infinitely easier that pursuing my quest to find a local brew shop.

[schild]

This is the one I know of, I think it's near Chicago.

[CmdrSlack]

This is the one I know of, I think it's near Chicago.

Yep, the 847 area code does it just fine!  Thanks. 

[SnotBag]

So now here I am, living in Chicago, and I know there HAS to be a brewing supply store, but I can't for the life of me find one.  I used to get my stuff shipped to me from Brewmasters in Sarasota, FL, but I would rather buy local.

Does anyone know of a reputable and cheap shop that does mail order?  It's infinitely easier that pursuing my quest to find a local brew shop.

First I found the IL shops, there looks to be several in Chicago. I did the whole state for you because I don't know all the suburbs:

• Bev Art Beer, Wine & Mead Making Supply
  10035 S. Western Ave.
  Chicago  IL  60643
  phone: (773) 233-7579
  fax: (773) 233-7579
  email: mailto:Bevart@ameritech.net
  website: http://www.Bev-Art.com
  
  Brew & Grow
  1824 N. Besley Ct.
  Chicago  IL  60622
  phone: (773) 395-1500
  website: http://www.altgarden.com
  
  Brew & Grow
  2379 Bode Rd.
  Schaumburg  IL  60194
  phone: (847) 885-8282
  
  Chicagoland Winemakers Inc.
  689 W. North Ave.
  Elmhurst  IL  60126-2132
  phone: (630) 834-0507
  fax: (630) 834-0591
  email: mailto:cwinemaker@aol.com
  website: http://www.cwinemaker.com
  
  Brewer's Coop
  30W114 Butterfield Rd.
  Warrenville  IL  60555
  phone: (630) 393-BEER
  fax: (630) 393-2323
  email: mailto:info@thebrewerscoop.com
  website: http://www.TheBrewersCoop.com
  
  Chicagoland Winemakers Inc.
  689 W. North Ave.
  Elmhurst  IL  60126-2132
  phone: (630) 834-0507
  fax: (630) 834-0591
  email: mailto:cwinemaker@aol.com
  website: http://www.cwinemaker.com
  
  Crystal Lake Health Food Store
  25 E. Crystal Lake Ave.
  Crystal Lake  IL  60014
  phone: 815-459-7942
  
  Home Brew Shop
  225 W. Main St.
  St. Charles  IL  60174
  phone: (630) 377-1338
  fax: (630) 377-3913
  website: http://www.homebrewshopltd.com
  
  Mojo Brew Company
  120 S 4th St
  Dekalb  IL  60115
  phone: 815-758-3615
  fax: 815-758-3664
  email: mailto:mojobrewco@aol.com
  website: http://www.mojobrew.com
  
  Somethings Brewn' Homebrew and Winemaking Supplies
  401 E. Main St. 401 E. Main St.
  Galesburg  IL  61401
  phone: 309-341-4118
  email: somethingsbrewn@seminarystreet.com

Online:
The Homebrew Depot (I work there 2 days a week)
http://www.homebrewdepot.net/index.html

Midwest Supplies
http://www.midwestsupplies.com

Northern Brewer - Ask for Curt Stock
http://www.northernbrewer.com

[SnotBag]

I haven't gotten around to taking any classes, though I keep meaning to.  And, the only brewing conventions I've been to have been the small ones around Phoenix (where I used to live).  I might have to look into those BJCP classes you mention.

The Study Guide
http://www.bjcp.org/study98.doc

The Current Style Guidelines
http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/