SEO help

[ghost]

I have a few questions for the peanut gallery here regarding SEO and general internetting.  First a little basic information-  my profession is one that, while it is a healthcare field, does not fall into the realm of "medically necessary" and thus almost all of my procedures are elective in nature.  It is becoming fairly competitive as lots of general practitioners are delving into things such as Invisalign. So advertising is important and most feel that internet marketing is a strong necessity, even over the phone book.  I don't even keep an advertisement in the yellow pages. 

Now to the meat of the issue.  There are two large companies (Televox and Orthosesame), which cater to dentists and, in particular, orthodontists.  In fact, if you were to do a Google search for "orthodontist" and my city you would find websites designed and maintained by these two companies almost exclusively in the top two pages.  This is a bit of a problem, however, as neither company really provides an advantage over the other.  Additionally, if everyone is using them there's no advantage to be gained at all.  I am getting to the point where I consider paying for their services almost "protection fees" in that if I don't use them I'll fall behind the others, but I don't really have much hope of advancing up to a higher tier with them. 

My concern is that I just really don't know what I'm doing enough to do it myself but I also am not sure that I trust companies to do what they say in regards to Internet.  So now to the questions (sorry, these are very basic as this is a realm that I just don't understand):

1.  What should I expect my SEO company to do for me? 

2.  Is there any way that I can personally monitor my SEO service to see if they are doing what they are supposed to do?

3.  What sorts of scams or shady business practices should I be aware of?

4.  What questions should I ask when looking for a new SEO service?  Any tips for finding and choosing a group to work with?

5.  What is a reasonable fee for SEO service? 

6.  Any tips or tricks, even those that seem very basic?

[Hammond]

I have been out of the webhosting business for a couple years now so I imagine some of my suggestions are dated. I imagine there are others with a bunch more experience but here are a few things.


1.  Keep in mind that SEO is relativity hard to quantify however what you should hope for at the very least is to drive new traffic to your website and hopefully get you ranked fairly well in search for several good keywords.
2.  Probably the best one is google analytics to help find where traffic is coming from and where the users are going.
3.  Anytime someone promises you that you are "guaranteed" results I find they are lying. Also SEO "experts" are all over the place and most of them suck at their jobs. Find someone with a decent portfolio of known sites that they have worked on so you can get a gist of what they have done. Also if possible see if they have a customer you can talk to (depends on your budget the cheaper outfits will probably not want to do this)
4. Good luck I have no idea on your area.
5. You will most likely get a sliding scale depending on what kind of actual services they provide. Things like keyword optimization, cross site linking, google adwords all drive up your ranking in search results and have different costs associated with it.
6. Do a site map and submit it to the search engines,  make sure you do not have broken links, make sure you have decent rankings on sites like yelp, google plus etc.  If possible get cross linked from other sites. If you have rebulilt your site recently make sure that no broken results show up in google or other search engines. But over all be patient results do not happen overnight with the process.

[Trippy]

You can start here:

http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291

You should install the Google Analytics stuff as soon as you can see where your traffic is coming from.

You should also check out the various Web sites on SEO and Web site marketing. There are a bunch of them out there but for a general purpose one you can start here:

https://forums.digitalpoint.com/

SEO is also just a part of promoting your business over the Internet. Even if you can get people to visit your Web site that doesn't mean they'll turn into paying customers/patients. Presumably there are tricks about how your Web site looks and reads that will help turn visitors into customers but I don't know what the specifics are for the Dentistry business. If you aren't already doing it you should survey your patients and find out how they found out about you. You should also Google your business/name and see where people might be talking about your services. Yelp is another extortion racket but places like that can be a good source of referrals assuming you are getting good reviews.

[Torinak]

I have been out of the webhosting business for a couple years now so I imagine some of my suggestions are dated. I imagine there are others with a bunch more experience but here are a few things.


1.  Keep in mind that SEO is relativity hard to quantify however what you should hope for at the very least is to drive new traffic to your website and hopefully get you ranked fairly well in search for several good keywords.
2.  Probably the best one is google analytics to help find where traffic is coming from and where the users are going.
3.  Anytime someone promises you that you are "guaranteed" results I find they are lying. Also SEO "experts" are all over the place and most of them suck at their jobs. Find someone with a decent portfolio of known sites that they have worked on so you can get a gist of what they have done. Also if possible see if they have a customer you can talk to (depends on your budget the cheaper outfits will probably not want to do this)
4. Good luck I have no idea on your area.
5. You will most likely get a sliding scale depending on what kind of actual services they provide. Things like keyword optimization, cross site linking, google adwords all drive up your ranking in search results and have different costs associated with it.
6. Do a site map and submit it to the search engines,  make sure you do not have broken links, make sure you have decent rankings on sites like yelp, google plus etc.  If possible get cross linked from other sites. If you have rebulilt your site recently make sure that no broken results show up in google or other search engines. But over all be patient results do not happen overnight with the process.

This is generally good advice, especially using Google Analytics and the tools at Google Webmaster Tools.  Just reading the advice from these tools and following Google's Webmaster Guidelines will make a huge difference, and is all stuff that any webmaster can do cheaply and easily. Many SEOs overpromise and underdeliver, or work their "magic" by just following the Webmaster Guidelines. The shady ones can do a huge amount of long-term damage to a site.

Note that using AdWords does not change ranking in organic (non-ad) Google search results. Also, some forms of cross-site linking ("link buying") don't help rankings at all, and in some cases might even hurt; see the Google Webmaster Tools help article about Link Schemes.

As search engines get "smarter", there may be many kinds of searches which end up mapping to the same kinds of results as highly precise terms. Many users are not sophisticated search engine users and may be searching for all kinds of things ("fix my ugly smile" instead of "orthodontist", maybe?) and personalization will play an increasingly large role (e.g., the searcher's city may already be known or inferred). Try doing test searches in an incognito browser window (in Chrome) or otherwise clearing all cookies.

For your specific case, you listed one specific set of search terms ("orthodontist + city") for which your competitors rank highly. Are there less-obvious keywords, such as product- or issue-specific ones for which they don't do as well?

[Salamok]

1.  What should I expect my SEO company to do for me?  

You should expect a rise in qualified leads originating from your website.  

2.  Is there any way that I can personally monitor my SEO service to see if they are doing what they are supposed to do?

Watch your analytics as well as monitor the amount of actual business (aka $$$) your websites are generating fro you.

3.  What sorts of scams or shady business practices should I be aware of?

The most common thing I see is sort of an SEO pump and dump, the SEO company promises you results and delivers them, they then get you to sign up for a subscription service to maintain these results, they then stop doing anything for you.  I haven't been in an environment where this occurs for quite some time but it used to be like the majority of the SEO people out there were doing this and the only service they were providing was to dump a few hundred bucks into some google adwords for you and post links to your site across all their bullshit feeder sites (google takes measures against this now).

4.  What questions should I ask when looking for a new SEO service?  Any tips for finding and choosing a group to work with?

lol, I am jaded but this seems like asking for tips on how to roll 00 on your d100.

5.  What is a reasonable fee for SEO service?  

This is so situation dependent, the SEO pricing and level of competition for generating traffic so you can sell vintage hotwheels at $2.00/unit profit is completely different than something like the mortgage industry where a closing a client is worth at least $2k to you.

6.  Any tips or tricks, even those that seem very basic?

I have seen SEO that worked, I don't think there is any doubt that it works.  Unfortunately what people think works and what SEO salespeople are selling aren't usually what I believe are the best methods.  Google adwords, if you are not doing this now you should be, it offers the most reward for the least amount of work.  Optimizing your website for SEO is the beginning of the process and isn't even worth doing if that is the extent of what you are going to do.  Successful SEO almost always involves aggressively pursuing a greater online presence and while having your content sit there being passively SEO friendly isn't going to hurt that effort it also isn't going to contribute to it.

[schild]

The best thing for a local business is local word of mouth. The idea of SEO creating some sort of influx for a brick and mortar based thing whether it's a hobby store or a dentist or a cafe is hilarious to me. It's simply not how things work. Also, people who are "gurus" in SEO are basically career liars that have no marketable skills and managed to worm their way into a bullshit industry.

Edit: Yelp is likely the best solution for creating a little bit of buzz on the internet, but then you're at behest of Yelp which is just as bullshit shady as SEO folks.

[Salamok]

Schild is mostly right, I have however seen some legitimate practices that require a lot of effort and some borderline blackhat SEO practices that require much less effort both have successfully generated significant amounts of revenue for small local businesses.  Once you find a successful method of either variety they have a habit of becoming victims of their own success and you soon end up competing with people who have adopted your own tactics.

edit - in MMOG terms think of it as farming guides and exploits, they either get published and you end up competing with farmers who have adopted your play style or they get patched and no longer work at all.

[Hammond]

I agree with schild about the word of mouth part. Along with yelp you can use sites like angieslist which I have heard local contractors use with so so results.

http://reviews.angieslist.com/health/dentists.aspx?af=103001&RefID=PPC:123

[ghost]

1.  What should I expect my SEO company to do for me?  

You should expect a rise in qualified leads originating from your website.  

Would you be willing to be a little more specific here?  Are there typical methods that they should be using that I should somehow see in action, or is it all Wizard of Oz type stuff behind the curtain?  

Thanks for the replies everyone.  Lots of good information.

We actually get a fair number of patients from our website.  Maybe not directly, but a patient will say my office is good, then they'll go and google it and look at the website.  It's a nice thing for people to see.  But we do get some that call in just from the website.  What I'm hearing you say, however, is that if I'm "keeping up with the Joneses", that may be as good as it gets without pricing me out of the service.

[Salamok]

1.  What should I expect my SEO company to do for me?  

You should expect a rise in qualified leads originating from your website.  

Would you be willing to be a little more specific here?  Are there typical methods that they should be using that I should somehow see in action, or is it all Wizard of Oz type stuff behind the curtain?  

Thanks for the replies everyone.  Lots of good information.

We actually get a fair number of patients from our website.  Maybe not directly, but a patient will say my office is good, then they'll go and google it and look at the website.  It's a nice thing for people to see.  But we do get some that call in just from the website.  What I'm hearing you say, however, is that if I'm "keeping up with the Joneses", that may be as good as it gets without pricing me out of the service.

You can run web promo's with coupon codes or create different contact information specific to each website, these are both methods that can be used to track where business is originated from.  You should also be actively farming and tracking your existing customer base with some form of CRM software.  Managing and farming your existing customer base is probably the best way to grow these types of businesses or in Schilds terms you need to figure out how best to cultivate better "word of mouth" results.

edit - Basically you asked the wrong question, you should have asked how better to grow and market your business and in your situation SEO has very little to do with that.

edit2 - I am now thinking about things I have not thought about in 6 years, on some plane of existence you owe me a beer.

[ghost]

If ever we shall meet I will buy you as many beers as you require.

SEO is important.  There is research floating around talking about what percentage of business that orthodontists typically get from online searches and it varies from almost none to up to 50%, in some cases.  If done well it can certainly help your business.

[Trippy]

That's only if your Web site visitors are converting to paying customers/patients.

[ghost]

Usually these studies look at production, which means actual money. 

Your point is good though.  I'm usually at a loss as to how to accurately monitor advertising and marketing.  I don't really have the time to do it right. 

[Trippy]

Usually these studies look at production, which means actual money. 

Your point is good though.  I'm usually at a loss as to how to accurately monitor advertising and marketing.  I don't really have the time to do it right. 

That's why you need to survey your patients.

[ghost]

Usually these studies look at production, which means actual money. 

Your point is good though.  I'm usually at a loss as to how to accurately monitor advertising and marketing.  I don't really have the time to do it right. 

That's why you need to survey your patients.

We do survey them, but not to the level that I should.  I will have to revamp it some, I suppose.  Things I have to keep in consideration is that people don't generally like those sorts of questions coming from their healthcare provider and it does add time into an already cramped schedule.  I do have the capability of monitoring which patients have called in from the website numbers (which are different than our main number for that purpose).

[Hammond]

Keep the surveys simple 5 questions or less and or tie it into a promotion of some kind.

But really it sounds like you need marketing help more than just SEO. A decent marketing company can help you with everything from the SEO, surveys, CRM, newsletters(be careful with these). Most dental type people I know have a service that does the mailings and can tie in many of the other marketing functions.

Also I would think that you would generate many of your leads through referrals from dentists?

[ghost]

Those referrals are going way, way down in our industry, primarily due to general practitioners doing Invisalign.  It used to be 75-80% of a given practice's incoming patients were direct doctor referrals, now it's closer to 50% or less, depending on the doctor. 

In theory, the Sesame company that I use for my website takes care of a lot of that, however it's not as inclusive as it ought to be, in my opinion.  I may check with a marketing company.  I have to be careful, however, as that can eat up a lot of overhead very quickly.

[Salamok]

It's all about customers referring customers, need to get Bunk in here the company he works for specializes heavily in this.  If you don't ask your satisfied customer for referrals and do zero retention marketing then that customer is only worth whatever you made off your last transaction.  If you recruit them into getting you referrals and put them on a drip marketing campaign then they are worth 10x that or more.  In the mortgage industry we viewed every customer as a potential lifetime customer and a customer who was willing to give us all of his business and referrals over the course of a lifetime was viewed and treated by us as someone who was going to be bringing $50k+ of revenue over the next 20 years.  You need to try and identify a realistic fantasy number of what one of your customer/advocates is worth to your business in this light, then you will start taking it more seriously and be okay with dedicating more time and money to the effort.  If you grow your business in this fashion (1 loyal customer at a time) you will be in a very very healthy position at the end of a decade.

Edit - You may want to check in to constant contact I believe they are branching out from the mortgage/real estate industries and becoming a more generically appealing drip marketing system.  I am not endorsing this as the best solution to a drip campaign but it is better than nothing.

Edit2 - Another example of this is aggressively pursuing yelp reviews, let your satisfied customers know that a favorable yelp review really helps your business and ask for their help.  I know a local garage door installer that does this and he swears that it brings in a ton of business.

[Krakrok]

Just use Google AdWords. Make sure to setup conversion tracking. And maybe do Click To Call mobile advertising through it. They also have an Adwords Express (which I've never used) but you may want to just hire a company to manage the AdWords campaign on a regular basis. How you pick a reputable company for that I have no idea. WordStream.com is interesting but I've never paid for it.

[Furiously]

Or offer your customers a free whitening when they refer a friend.

[Amarr HM]

The best thing for a local business is local word of mouth. The idea of SEO creating some sort of influx for a brick and mortar based thing whether it's a hobby store or a dentist or a cafe is hilarious to me. It's simply not how things work. Also, people who are "gurus" in SEO are basically career liars that have no marketable skills and managed to worm their way into a bullshit industry.

Edit: Yelp is likely the best solution for creating a little bit of buzz on the internet, but then you're at behest of Yelp which is just as bullshit shady as SEO folks.

This post has made my day, and I'm having a shitty day.