Trying to score a new job, need some input

[Flood]

So a few months ago my (new) job with a start up company fell through.  So now I'm back on the market and looking for a job in this rather...intimidating job market.  There is a job I'm targeting that has the following technical requirements:

- Comprehension of web page layout, design, and browser incompatibilities
- Experience developing web sites with XHTML/CSS2, and JavaScript
- Working knowledge of PHP, ASP, or equivalent scripting languages

Now, I'm a fairly tech-savvy person, and I have experience in supporting web-based products and content, but I would not represent myself and a web developer by any means.  I was hoping some forum members could give me some input on how to better educate myself on the criteria I listed (barring a web development for dummies book or something), or general advice on resources, what topics to prioritize, etc.  The company in question delivers online learning content and I would be overseeing a team of technical support folks, just to put it in context.


Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated - thanks!   

[Trippy]

Uh...you are going to learn how to build a Web page with advanced UI controls (via JavaScript) by hand (none of this Dreamweaver bullshit). The last requirement is presumably cause the Web pages interface with a backend database but you probably don't need to know the back end part since there's no mention of knowing how to design database schemas in those requirement but you will need to understand the scripting syntax and how to access the variables to put the database content into the pages.

This is not something you can learn how to do quickly even if you have a programming background. Oh and you are going to need to have graphics design experience as well.

[Hawkbit]

This is not something you can learn how to do quickly even if you have a programming background. Oh and you are going to need to have graphics design experience as well.

As someone working in a low-level position at a .com for experience and going to school for a four year program for webd, this.  And this some more.  You can't fake web site development, and you most definitely can't fake the layout/design portion.  Being tech-savvy will get you far, but not far enough to call yourself a web developer in a short period of crash studying.  Good developers will see right through it.

The real question is:  If the job is overseeing tech support people, why do they need a manager to have experience with those technologies?

[Ghambit]

Minimize your bills, dump your wife/gf, fish for angel-funding/grants, and start your own company doing something you love.  If x=success Then generate bills, get smokin hawt wife/gf, provide angel-funding, start another company... rinse, wash, repeat.

Fuck working for other people.  Come up with something original and do it.  Even if it's something in webdev.

[Krakrok]

As I said in the other thread; crash coarse the lynda.com videos for PHP, HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Watch the videos on SEO, time management, and some of the hour long videos in the documentary section and maybe the Deke's Techniques series if you have the time.

Then get clone scripts for types of popular sites that you like, install them, and start customizing them. You'll learn as you go along. Whatever question you have, just plug it into Google, and cut & paste the answer. Someone already had your same problem before.

I guess you'll figure out quickly enough if you have aptitude for coding or design or both. Don't bother with Dreamweaver/PhotoShop/Whatever unless you want to specialize in that app. Maybe Xara/Flash/Paint.net if you need to do quick graphics.

Remember there is more than one way to skin a cat so don't get bogged down trying to do XYZ when you could do it faster a different way as long as the result is similar to what you were going for.

[Murgos]

Back in the day I used to rely on webmonkey to have a good reference and tutorial for whatever I was trying to do in .js or .php.

Apparently it got swallowed by Wired and turned into a PoS though.  Too bad.

[Lantyssa]

Pretty much what Trippy said.  Do everything by hand so you learn.  I don't know how they are for these particular subjects, but the For Dummies books are actually a good introduction for the things I've tried.

The toughest thing is coming up with a decent project that helps you learn.  I started by helping some non-profits update their web pages.  That wasn't a quick process by any means though.

[Sky]

I started by helping some non-profits update their web pages. 

We're doing this for our current web design, moving content over to wordpress. I just wanted her to set up a decent template, wade through the nonsense and get the plugins set up, etc.

She did some custom layout in php that's going to be too restrictive and I'll have to jettison because the hell with learning php for our dinky site. But hey, it's freeeeee.

[HaemishM]

So a few months ago my (new) job with a start up company fell through.  So now I'm back on the market and looking for a job in this rather...intimidating job market.  There is a job I'm targeting that has the following technical requirements:

- Comprehension of web page layout, design, and browser incompatibilities
- Experience developing web sites with XHTML/CSS2, and JavaScript
- Working knowledge of PHP, ASP, or equivalent scripting languages

Fuck, they may as well have asked that you have your own fucking unicorn to ride to work.

Most people I know have 2 of the 3 at best and are pretty fucking valuable. Usually people with #3 suck at #1 and people who can do #1 heads assplode at the thought of #3. That's the skillset of a TEAM of people, not one person.

[Lantyssa]

She did some custom layout in php that's going to be too restrictive and I'll have to jettison because the hell with learning php for our dinky site. But hey, it's freeeeee.

I actually enjoy PHP quite a bit.  I almost feel like I'm programming when writing with it since I'm usually trying to do complicated things.

[schild]

Minimize your bills, dump your wife/gf, fish for angel-funding/grants, and start your own company doing something you love.  If x=success Then generate bills, get smokin hawt wife/gf, provide angel-funding, start another company... rinse, wash, repeat.

Fuck working for other people.  Come up with something original and do it.  Even if it's something in webdev.

That's useless fucking advice.

[Ghambit]

True, I'm just very angst-ridden and bitter these days.

[schild]

Yea, no one cares. This isn't live journal.

[naum]

So a few months ago my (new) job with a start up company fell through.  So now I'm back on the market and looking for a job in this rather...intimidating job market.  There is a job I'm targeting that has the following technical requirements:

- Comprehension of web page layout, design, and browser incompatibilities
- Experience developing web sites with XHTML/CSS2, and JavaScript
- Working knowledge of PHP, ASP, or equivalent scripting languages

Fuck, they may as well have asked that you have your own fucking unicorn to ride to work.

Most people I know have 2 of the 3 at best and are pretty fucking valuable. Usually people with #3 suck at #1 and people who can do #1 heads assplode at the thought of #3. That's the skillset of a TEAM of people, not one person.

I have all 3 of those, Computer Science background and long career of programming, then jumped into Web development. Not much of a pixel pusher, but I can sling some graphics (though I prefer the OSS tools Gimp, Inkscape over the Adobe bloatware and the magically delicious power of CLI imagemagick often suffices) if needed…

…but the missing #4 is coordinating and implementing sites in lieu of organizational wishes to defy your best advice on layout, design, usability, SEO, etc.… because they want it to look like this shiny other 4-5 year old website… ;(

[Hammond]

- Comprehension of web page layout, design, and browser incompatibilities
- Experience developing web sites with XHTML/CSS2, and JavaScript
- Working knowledge of PHP, ASP, or equivalent scripting languages

Is this one of those we don't know wtf we need so lets ask for the moon with the new hire?  Kind of like asking for someone to have skills of a 20 year veteran and only want to pay them for a entry level position.   I do not quite understand why you need those skills if you are going to be managing a tech support group.  Unless the group is building custom sites for clients or some.  Honestly though I read it as we want you to have familiarity with these subjects but not be overly skilled. 

Anyway for advice I would say at the very least understand what each of the languages are and the differences between them.  Also at the minimum understand what they are talking about for web page layout, design, browser incompatibilities.  Take a look at their website in a few browsers and see if you notice differences.  Bring them up in the interview if possible.  I hope the rest of the job description describes your experience better and you are just looking to check off a few requirements. 

[Salamok]

I started by helping some non-profits update their web pages.  

We're doing this for our current web design, moving content over to wordpress. I just wanted her to set up a decent template, wade through the nonsense and get the plugins set up, etc.

She did some custom layout in php that's going to be too restrictive and I'll have to jettison because the hell with learning php for our dinky site. But hey, it's freeeeee.

Wordpress is php...  

Is this one of those we don't know wtf we need so lets ask for the moon with the new hire?

Ask for the moon?  I would expect anyone above an entry level position that is applying for web development or web application support to at the very least meet these requirements.  

- Comprehension of web page layout, design, and browser incompatibilities
Are you familiar with most HTML elements and are you aware that ie is a pain in the ass?

- Experience developing web sites with XHTML/CSS2, and JavaScript
Have you developed some podunk little site that utilizes css and jquery?  Deploying a website using wordpress with the right plugins probably qualifies here.  You don't actually expect someone to hire someone for a web position when they basically have never shown enough previous interest in the area to actually get off their ass and push out a website that uses semi recent technology.

- Working knowledge of PHP, ASP, or equivalent scripting languages
Basically any server side scripted language for web development.  Once again if you are interested enough to want a job in web development then asking you to have a working knowledge of a server side language isn't exactly a non-reasonable request.

He admits this is not an entry level position, he will be managing a team of people who understand all these things.  Personally I prefer the lead from the front types who actually understand the nuts and bolts of what their team is working on.  I have had enough of the fake it til you make it types who seem to value their own questionable organizational and people skills above the skills actually used by their staff to complete the job at hand.

[Lantyssa]

He admits this is not an entry level position, he will be managing a team of people who understand all these things.  Personally I prefer the lead from the front types who actually understand the nuts and bolts of what their team is working on.  I have had enough of the fake it til you make it types who seem to value their own questionable organizational and people skills above the skills actually used by their staff to complete the job at hand.

I have the same feeling, which makes me not apply for jobs I could probably eventually do, but don't feel my current skills qualify for.

[Salamok]

Bah you should have taken the job we had posted.  I think learning on the job is the best way to learn, but if you are leading people then the only learning part allowed should be "learning how to lead" not "learning the subject matter that you will be leading people in".

[Sky]

Er, you can't really learn to lead well. You're born with it or you suck at it. I don't think a good team leader needs to know the nuts and bolts, that's what the team is for. Should the library director know how to write a script or wire a receptacle box? Leaders lead and take care of the external nonsense so grunts can get shit done without interference.

[Salamok]

Not everyone born with your leadership skillset is given the opportunity to exercise it.  You don't start at library director and it sounds to me like a library director would be leading a team of leaders, so the nuts and bolts of what they need to know is how to lead 

I have had plenty of good managers who were not type A assholes constantly shoving themselves to the front of the line.  I mention this because #1 the type A personality is not indicative or necessary to be a good manager and #2 there are plenty of people out there who have what it takes to be a good manager and have never developed or been given the opportunity to develop the skillset.

[Hammond]

Is this one of those we don't know wtf we need so lets ask for the moon with the new hire?

Ask for the moon?  I would expect anyone above an entry level position that is applying for web development or web application support to at the very least meet these requirements.  

- Comprehension of web page layout, design, and browser incompatibilities
Are you familiar with most HTML elements and are you aware that ie is a pain in the ass?

- Experience developing web sites with XHTML/CSS2, and JavaScript
Have you developed some podunk little site that utilizes css and jquery?  Deploying a website using wordpress with the right plugins probably qualifies here.  You don't actually expect someone to hire someone for a web position when they basically have never shown enough previous interest in the area to actually get off their ass and push out a website that uses semi recent technology.

- Working knowledge of PHP, ASP, or equivalent scripting languages
Basically any server side scripted language for web development.  Once again if you are interested enough to want a job in web development then asking you to have a working knowledge of a server side language isn't exactly a non-reasonable request.

He admits this is not an entry level position, he will be managing a team of people who understand all these things.  Personally I prefer the lead from the front types who actually understand the nuts and bolts of what their team is working on.  I have had enough of the fake it til you make it types who seem to value their own questionable organizational and people skills above the skills actually used by their staff to complete the job at hand.

Yea my gut feeling was the same as far as the knowledge required.  Obviously this was a hot button issue for you though :).  Personally I have seen more than enough people say that they are skilled at something and once they are hired and put in that position not have any kind of clue.  That is why I was hoping that the rest of the job description fit him more than this these skills. IE 95% was there and he wanted to check off the last 5%. 

Also
;)

Honestly though I read it as we want you to have familiarity with these subjects but not be overly skilled.