John Smedley's state of the...future?

[Alkiera]

I'm glad that we went in the direction
we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core"
game, I think bad things would have happened.

I really think the guy has no clue what hardcore means. If that's as 'softcore' (heh) as SOE can make it...

Looking at the EQ boards they view EQ2 as possibly more hardcore than EQ past level 20.

Huh?  I'm confused...  EQ2 is in no way more hardcore then EQ1.  Admittedly, my highest character is only 26... but I can still solo, as a fighter.  I have a 22 Illusionist and a 20 warlock, and the can both solo too.

Soloing as a wizard between 10 and 29 in EQ1 is a nightmare.  As a tank type, it's not easy after the late teens... and after that is almost never possible.  Rogue-ish classes also have solo difficulties after the teen levels, tho some do better than others.

Why?  EQ2 has speedy out of combat hp/power regen.  EQ2 also has mobs all over that are intended to be soloed, and which drop loot which sells okay on a semi-regular basis, if you are solo.  These solo mobs are not really worthwhile to groups, as they don't give as good exp as group mobs, and don't drop the good loot when taken by a group.  EQ2 leveling times feel shorter than EQ1, and combat is much faster paced.  EQ2 has a vitality system that grants you double exp if you don't play much, but which is quickly drained if you're a catass.

So what specifically did 'they' on the 'EQ boards' think was so much worse about EQ2 over EQ1?  Seriously.

Alkiera

[jpark]

I'm glad that we went in the direction
we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core"
game, I think bad things would have happened.

I really think the guy has no clue what hardcore means. If that's as 'softcore' (heh) as SOE can make it...

Looking at the EQ boards they view EQ2 as possibly more hardcore than EQ past level 20.

Huh?  I'm confused...  EQ2 is in no way more hardcore then EQ1. 

So what specifically did 'they' on the 'EQ boards' think was so much worse about EQ2 over EQ1?  Seriously.

Alkiera

Bah - you owe me for going to dig this up :)

It is in the commentary around the Smedly dribble that started this thread, here's a poster on the EQ board:

I guess it's perception.......he is saying EQ2  is less hardcore and more casual friendly than EQ1.  If you read the EQ2 forums, or play, you would likely get a different impression. IMO (and many others) EQ2, after say, level 20, is very hardcore and non-casual friendly. Except for killing the odd solo mobs for miniscule XP, most quests, most ANYTHING requires a full group.  IMO EQ1 is way more casual friendly, and I say that not speaking to planes/GoD raid content, but everything up to that.
 
  Quite frankly after level 20 playing EQ2 is more a chore than fun, for me to do my armor quests, or almost any quest, I need a group, something I do not have the time to look for. Much harder to get a group, and quite frankly pickup groups are generally worse than here, real nightmares!  Plus it is very hard to get a bunch together with the same quest/goals.
 
   I hope they keep working on EQ1, especially those new character graphics that were due end of 2004.....and fix/tweak/add content that is NOT just aimed at the top levels
Message Edited by Silent_Vlawde on 02-11-2005 04:51 PM

Maelin Starpyre

Another poster comments on the EQ boards:

Having played both I have to agree. EQ2 stops for the casual player around level 20, it certainly becomes incredibly slow and tedious to solo, even with a "solo" class, somewhere around there.

********
You can go to the link:  http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=TNZ&message.id=154262&no_redir=true

Note:  maybe I missed it - but the above two posts I pasted above went without debate.  I am not saying I agree - I was just surprised to see this.

[Aenovae]

Yep, EQ2 is a bit more hardcore than EQ1 if you look at things like soloability, EQ2's required quests, grouping restrictions, and lack of powerleveling and twinking.  It also seems to take significantly longer to reach max level in EQ2 than in EQ1.

On the other hand, almost every EQ2 class is useful in a group, so you spend less time /lfg in EQ2 than you did in EQ1.  Ease of finding pickup groups coupled with the great rewards from popular quests makes the game a little more friendly to the casual (non uberguilded) player.

[Sky]

On the other hand, almost every EQ2 class is useful in a group, so you spend less time /lfg in EQ2 than you did in EQ1.  Ease of finding pickup groups coupled with the great rewards from popular quests makes the game a little more friendly to the casual (non uberguilded) player.

Don't forget, they have that covered, too. Group death penalties!

EQ2 is probably a great game if you are in a large active guild or play with a regular group of friends, err, regularly. For everyone else, it's teh suck (imo, natch).

I made it to level 17 in EQ2, couldn't stomach killing any more yard trash (and only about half of that was viable, anyway!). On level 44 in WoW now, still having a great time. That's gotta be good for something, I (have been told I) hate the genre.

[Paelos]

I'll say it before and I'll say it again. The main thing that makes WoW tolerable at higher levels is the rest system. You can walk away from your lvl 40 toon for a week and roll something else up. Then by the time you come back you can basically gain two levels in no time with quests and xp bonuses. Early on the bonus is minimal, but in the 50s it has exponential returns.

[jpark]

Smedley's business sense still escapes me.

My buddy - in EQ2 until last month - saw this article and is now picking up WoW despite his reaction to the avatar graphics to give it a chance (he is a former EQ player of many years originally).

[HaemishM]

I'd say EQ2 is more hardcore in that they introduced timesinks on top of the normal leveling timesink. Guilds now have their own treadmill to run. You have access quests to get into certain zones. Then those zones require you to finish them successfully, or if you fail, start over from the beginning but not immediately, because you have to wait four hours.

Now, the play mechanics are essentially EQ on training wheels, and I find both games boring as fuck. I think EQ2 has more hidden time sinks than EQ1, but on my scale of shitty games, EQ2 wins hands down.

[Daeven]

With schild's rampant strike tags, for a second I transposed the words "Planescape" and "Planetside". What a fantastic second that was, imagining the game mechanics of Planetside against a rich and diverse backdrop like Planescape...harvesting different technologies from each plane that acts differently depending on what plane you're on....ahh...I drew it out to like five nice seconds there.

I would so kill for a Planescape style MMORPG. Imagine, if you will - the 'Planescape City' is the central hub of the game. From there you go on quests and explore to find portals. Portals to where? Well, whatever the developers decide to develop. Standard Generic Fantasy worlds. Dark Gothic Fantasy. Steampunk. Gundam. A modern 'metropolis'. Infernal Demonic hells. Whatever.

Take your Phaser blaster and your +5 vorpal pig sticker with you. No worries.

Or am I the only person who thinks this sort of thing would be fun?

[shiznitz]

But Haemish, they are adding a DING! to guild levelling! FIXED.

But Haemish, they are lowering the lockout timers on most restricted zones! Specifically, the timer to go back in is substantially less if you entered and failed, but we are still talking hours. FIXED.


Those incremental changes (hitting live servers probably this week) are hilariously lame. Yes, I am still playing.

[Sky]

Or am I the only person who thinks this sort of thing would be fun?

Heck, I've wanted something that encompasses time/planar travel forever now.

All part of my ubergame, where you can plug in any setting and it works, and also plug in any genre and it works. So if you head out to the golf course, you are playing a "mini-game" that is as full featured and on the playing level of Tiger Woods or Links. Each "mini-game" being able to stand up to (not necessarily top) the genre standards.

Rather than mmogs being bland and only becoming more dynamic for the player, input-wise, I envision them being HUGE projects that involve almost everyone in a huge dev stable like EA's.

That's my state of the future. I dreamt it up back when I was reading a PC Gamer article about a "Multima", back before I was on teh intarweb.

[Krakrok]

I envision them being HUGE projects that involve almost everyone in a huge dev stable like EA's.

That is what Second Life is. Or wants to be if it mostly didn't suck.

[Samwise]

I would so kill for a Planescape style MMORPG. Imagine, if you will - the 'Planescape City' is the central hub of the game. Form there you go on qeusts and explote to find portals. Portals to where? Well, whatever the developers decide to develop. Standard Generic Fantasy worlds. Dark Gothic Fantasy. Steampunk. Gundam. A modern 'metropolis'. Infernal Demonic hells. Whatever.

Take your Phaser blaster and your +5 vorpal pig sticker with you. No worries.

Or am I the only perons who thinks this sort of thing would be fun?

Add on to it the potential for players to create their own demiplanes and populate them with built-in content creation tools.

[Soukyan]

I think people who are stating that EQ2 is more hardcore than EQ1 are comparing the two based on starting from scratch in EQ2 and on twinking a new character in EQ1. Starting from scratch in EQ1, soloing is a royal bitch and a half. EQ2 is far more solo friendly and far faster to level in. Trust me, I have no patience for grinding games.

[Alkiera]

I think people who are stating that EQ2 is more hardcore than EQ1 are comparing the two based on starting from scratch in EQ2 and on twinking a new character in EQ1. Starting from scratch in EQ1, soloing is a royal bitch and a half. EQ2 is far more solo friendly and far faster to level in. Trust me, I have no patience for grinding games.

This is more or less exactly what I was going to say.  The people complaining seem to have forgotten just how much it sucks to have to level a character solo in EQ1 without twinking or powerleveling.  In EQ1 post 15 or so, if you are not one of Necro, Druid, Wizard, or Enchanter, you cannot solo at all...  Yet they complain about getting 'miniscule exp' from solo mobs in EQ2.  The exp you get for killing blue/even 'solo' mobs is a larger percentage of your exp to level than you get killing blue stuff in a group in most non-planar outdoor zones in EQ1.  An even solo mob is ~.75%, just shy of 1% of your current level in EQ2, no matter what your level.  Sure, it's slower than grouping, because group mobs give better exp, and groups can destroy mobs in job lots...  but it's not the night-and-day that EQ1 is.

The poster also left out the planes and the post-planes expansions in their estimation of what is 'hardcore'...  If you're 61 or higher, those zones are pretty much where you're going to be playing.  The planes, mob for mob, give better exp than pretty much anywhere else in the game, at least when I played.  If you could kill high-blue/even things in Halls of Honor, Plane of Tactics, or Bastion of Thunder...  There wasn't any zone your group could go that would be better exp over time or money/loot reward over time.

And please, someone, try to argue that PoP access quests are less harcore than... any access quest in EQ2.  Please.  Especially since EQ2's raid size is limited to 4 groups...  most PoP-level raids can't be done with that few people.

Alkiera

[jpark]

I think people who are stating that EQ2 is more hardcore than EQ1 are comparing the two based on starting from scratch in EQ2 and on twinking a new character in EQ1. Starting from scratch in EQ1, soloing is a royal bitch and a half. EQ2 is far more solo friendly and far faster to level in. Trust me, I have no patience for grinding games.

It's a good point.

But let's keep in mind what EQ involves: twinking and powerleveling.  It is part of the game.  The only time it was not part of the game may have been in the first 6 months of release, where the average server level and economy may not have provided the goods to twink newbies effectively.  The vast majority of the time EQ has been around, however, effective twinking has been a strong option.

As it stands, effective twinking in EQ2 will not likely be a viable option, given the game dynamics, regardless what the average level is on the server.

Your comment stands in the first 6 months of the life of EQ, but not in the 4-5 years that followed in my view.

[Alkiera]

I think people who are stating that EQ2 is more hardcore than EQ1 are comparing the two based on starting from scratch in EQ2 and on twinking a new character in EQ1. Starting from scratch in EQ1, soloing is a royal bitch and a half. EQ2 is far more solo friendly and far faster to level in. Trust me, I have no patience for grinding games.

It's a good point.

But let's keep in mind what EQ involves: twinking and powerleveling.  It is part of the game.  The only time it was not part of the game may have been in the first 6 months of release, where the average server level and economy may not have provided the goods to twink newbies effectively.  The vast majority of the time EQ has been around, however, effective twinking has been a strong option.

As it stands, effective twinking in EQ2 will not likely be a viable option, given the game dynamics, regardless what the average level is on the server.

Your comment stands in the first 6 months of the life of EQ, but not in the 4-5 years that followed in my view.

It stands, IF you already have a high level character.

You can do the same thing in EQ2, once you have a high level character, you can use the shared bank slots to transfer items and spell/art upgrades to characters based in the same city.  However, as you stated, EQ2 is still in it's first 6 months... most people do not already have high level characters to twink with.

Alkiera

[jpark]

I think people who are stating that EQ2 is more hardcore than EQ1 are comparing the two based on starting from scratch in EQ2 and on twinking a new character in EQ1. Starting from scratch in EQ1, soloing is a royal bitch and a half. EQ2 is far more solo friendly and far faster to level in. Trust me, I have no patience for grinding games.

It's a good point.

But let's keep in mind what EQ involves: twinking and powerleveling.  It is part of the game.  The only time it was not part of the game may have been in the first 6 months of release, where the average server level and economy may not have provided the goods to twink newbies effectively.  The vast majority of the time EQ has been around, however, effective twinking has been a strong option.

As it stands, effective twinking in EQ2 will not likely be a viable option, given the game dynamics, regardless what the average level is on the server.

Your comment stands in the first 6 months of the life of EQ, but not in the 4-5 years that followed in my view.

It stands, IF you already have a high level character.

You can do the same thing in EQ2, once you have a high level character, you can use the shared bank slots to transfer items and spell/art upgrades to characters based in the same city.  However, as you stated, EQ2 is still in it's first 6 months... most people do not already have high level characters to twink with.

Alkiera

So you're saying the potential to twink is the same in EQ2 as EQ?  If you believe that - then yes I can see the above makes sense.

[kaid]

You can twink and easily in eq2 due to the shared bank slots. HOWEVER and this is a big however the game has a lot of built in limitations and requirements on weapons that prevents you from using anything to crazy for your leve. Yes if you are twinked you will have an easier time in eq2 but the differance between twinked and untwinked is nowheres NEAR as silly as it was in eqlive.

Hell I was never an uber twinker or pharmer but in eqlive I had some crappy armor and crappy twink weapons that were still powerful enough to make a newbie pretty much invulnerable till around level 20.


kaid

[Yegolev]

I think people who are stating that EQ2 is more hardcore than EQ1 are comparing the two based on starting from scratch in EQ2 and on twinking a new character in EQ1. Starting from scratch in EQ1, soloing is a royal bitch and a half.

What he said.

[HaemishM]

How about "They are both hellishly boring, making them seem hardcore simply because of how incredibly boring any sort of playing them is."

[Alkiera]

It stands, IF you already have a high level character.

You can do the same thing in EQ2, once you have a high level character, you can use the shared bank slots to transfer items and spell/art upgrades to characters based in the same city.  However, as you stated, EQ2 is still in it's first 6 months... most people do not already have high level characters to twink with.

Alkiera

So you're saying the potential to twink is the same in EQ2 as EQ? If you believe that - then yes I can see the above makes sense.

I will admit that EQ1 still has alot of equipment without recommended or required levels... Whereas every item in EQ2 effectively has both.  I believe if you're going to go the 'tin sword, iron sword, carbonite sword, feyiron sword, etc etc' route, where each sword is the same with more damage and better stats, than you need to put recommended levels on stuff.  Personally, I find the whole thing kinda dumb.

However, lack of money will frequently mean you can't always afford the latest and greatest armor, weapons, jewelry, and spell/combat art upgrades...  Which is the primary thing holding back newbs in EQ1 from getting nice armor and weapons.  However, if a lvl 70, who has lots of money just from splitting cash in the places they hunt, and can buy exceptional newb equipment from the change they lose in their couch, buys it and gives it to them, this is twinking. This same thing can happen in EQ2.  Hunt around with your newb, find someone selling the items you need, then log in your level 50 alt and buy them, put them in shared bank slot, then the newb suddenly find a hoard of nice items in his bank... like Magic!

Alkiera

[jpark]

It stands, IF you already have a high level character.

You can do the same thing in EQ2, once you have a high level character, you can use the shared bank slots to transfer items and spell/art upgrades to characters based in the same city.  However, as you stated, EQ2 is still in it's first 6 months... most people do not already have high level characters to twink with.

Alkiera

So you're saying the potential to twink is the same in EQ2 as EQ? If you believe that - then yes I can see the above makes sense.

I will admit that EQ1 still has alot of equipment without recommended or required levels... Whereas every item in EQ2 effectively has both.  I believe if you're going to go the 'tin sword, iron sword, carbonite sword, feyiron sword, etc etc' route, where each sword is the same with more damage and better stats, than you need to put recommended levels on stuff.  Personally, I find the whole thing kinda dumb.

However, lack of money will frequently mean you can't always afford the latest and greatest armor, weapons, jewelry, and spell/combat art upgrades...  Which is the primary thing holding back newbs in EQ1 from getting nice armor and weapons.  However, if a lvl 70, who has lots of money just from splitting cash in the places they hunt, and can buy exceptional newb equipment from the change they lose in their couch, buys it and gives it to them, this is twinking. This same thing can happen in EQ2.  Hunt around with your newb, find someone selling the items you need, then log in your level 50 alt and buy them, put them in shared bank slot, then the newb suddenly find a hoard of nice items in his bank... like Magic!

Alkiera

I dunno Alkeria, when I played I did not really have a lack of money.  I had the best armor quests or money could permit that I was aware of.  Granted I did not have Adept III spells - that was the only "thing" I did not have.

Ahh.. the days of twinking in EQ... when my troll warrior could 3 shot red cons at level 15 :)

[shiznitz]

Some twinking in EQ2 is doable, certainly and thankfully. If I want to start an alt, the least thing I want to go through is all of the same damn quests from 1-20 and I would have too if I want good equipment. I have spent 22 levels in Antonica/Stormhold with my current main. I want to get out. I could start an alt in Freeport, but my guild is in Qeynos so I would have to do that inane betrayal quest. If I am going to have to kill 500 gnolls anyway, I might as well start in Qeynos where I am told to kill gnolls anyway.