Cable/Satellite TV

[grebo]

The local weather gods saw fit today to tear my coax cable off the pole across the street, and with it goes my months of free cable.  boo.

So now I guess I have to pay for something.  Basic cable was barely tolerable when it was free and I'd rather not pay for digital, so I was wondering if someone was an expert in the realm of satellite or whatever else is out there.

Is there any plan out there that is comparable to basic cable rates($30-$40/mo or so) or is that too much to ask for?  What are equipment costs?  Do I need boxes for each tv or can I use the TV tuners and just run coax?

Any info would be appreciated, or even just links to info.

thx much.

[Big Gulp]

Is there any plan out there that is comparable to basic cable rates($30-$40/mo or so) or is that too much to ask for?

I had the Dish Network about 6 years ago.  It was slightly more expensive than cable, but I'm not sure about barebones packages...  I'd assume it's probably a good amount more expensive than cable.  Also be warned that whenever it rains, snows, whatever the signal can degrade and you'll see some misplaced pixels or you'll lose service (extremely rare).  Other than that, it's the same as digital cable quality-wise, meaning it's much better than just running a coax and getting basic cable.

Do I need boxes for each tv or can I use the TV tuners and just run coax?

You need a box for each set you want to run it on.  Actually, that's not quite true.  You can watch it on multiple TVs with one box, but you'd have to watch the same thing on all of them.

[Riggswolfe]

Well, keep in mind also that with Satellite you either don't get your local channels or have to pay extra for them.

I won't buy satellite ever after my current job (working for a cable company). Satellite providers have been calling our customers and telling them we plan to raise rates without telling them. Totally untrue and dishonest. Not only are they lying SOBs they're making my life directly harder.

[Big Gulp]

Well, keep in mind also that with Satellite you either don't get your local channels or have to pay extra for them.

Oh nooooos!  And I'd miss out on my local blowdried news hacks throwing cheesedick banter at each other!

Heh, actually I do favor cable over satellite, but the lack of local channels just doesn't mean dick to me.  As long as I get HBO, Showtime, the History Channel and C-Span it's all good.

[Morfiend]

I wont get sattelite ether. My friend had one of the (dish thingy) and his dish broke. They told him it would be $250 for a new dish or $180 for a repair man to come out and fix it. He told them to F-off and changed to digital cable.

Now, I have had a LOT of problems with my cable modem (I have the 3 digital deal from cox) and it took them a long fucking time to get it fixed, but they credited my account for the entire time it was not working, also, every tme I ahve a problem they will give me new equipment free of charge. Also, cox now has a built in DVR for only $10 a month. Where as TiVo is $14 and I have to ahve an extra box.

For all my problems, I still stand by Cox, because in the end they always fix my probelms and they are quick to give you credit if any thing is wrong.

[toma levine]

I know a guy who bought a smart card programmer online (for a friend, he says) but subscribes to cable (i.e. he didn't buy it for piracy).
Directv raided the shop he bought it from and seized their customer list.
Not long thereafter, said person received notice from Directv that he was being sued.

He called them up, they said they'd agree to drop the suit if he'd pay a settlement of $6000.

Even though they had no direct evidence that he pirated any DTV signals, they planned to bring a civil suit knowing it would probably be cheaper for him to settle than to hire a lawyer and go through a civil trial against an army of corporate lawyers.
I haven't heard anything new about it for a while, though.

God as my witness, I'll never be a Directv subscriber.

[grebo]

Hmm, apparently Dish Network has a plan for $25/mo that includes all the channels people in my house regularly watch.  Maybe I'll go with that...

Or I could always just throw all the TVs away and DL all my TV off BitTorrent... yeah, that's it.  

Thanks for the opinions folks.

[Big Gulp]

Or I could always just throw all the TVs away and DL all my TV off BitTorrent... yeah, that's it.

I'm assuming you've got broadband then...  If it's a cable modem I'm going to call you a raging dumbass for not buying a $2 splitter from Radio Shack and just using basic cable again.

[grebo]

Or I could always just throw all the TVs away and DL all my TV off BitTorrent... yeah, that's it.

I'm assuming you've got broadband then...  If it's a cable modem I'm going to call you a raging dumbass for not buying a $2 splitter from Radio Shack and just using basic cable again.

Heh, no, not that dumb...I got me some DSL.

Also, on the splitter thing, you have to be sure to get one that doesn't block the cablemodem's signal.. the cheap ones didn't work for me when I tried it.  Something about the Mhz not being high enough or something...

[Nebu]

Well, I am a cable subscriber that went satellite 2 years ago.  My conclusion: I'm having digital cable reinstalled this Friday.  

The reason is mostly because of a) the bundle deal that I'm getting with a cablemodem.  My DSL is SO bad where I live that I just can't take it any longer.  b) they are giving me $ 400 to switch... making the deal too good to pass up.  

Living at altitude in an area where the winds are generally 25-30 mph daily, dish just doesn't seem to perform as consistently as cable.

I'm sure this won't help you much with your decision... I just thought I'd toss in my 2 cents.

[WonderBrick]

I had DirecTV for about 5 years.  I had few issues with it, and always laugh when I see a cable-company ad that plays up on the evils of satellite.  Mine was even functional in the middle of a insanely heavy snowfall one year.

I moved to a place that currently gives me free cable, but I do miss some stations that DirecTV offered, like LinkTV and News World International, which gave a great alternate source of news.

I also loved the software on one of my old DirecTV boxes, as it made for a highly enjoyable, very flexible way of browsing and selecting upcoming shows.  I have yet to get a TiVo, but I imagine would do away with any software/interface comparisions between satellite and cable.

[DarkDryad]

I had satalite TV for about a year. Never worked during storms and was fuzzy on high cloud days. I did like the digital music though. I'm digging my digital cable now so I wont do a dish anymore.

[UD_Delt]

For all my problems, I still stand by Cox, because in the end they always fix my probelms and they are quick to give you credit if any thing is wrong.

We also have the digital cable, cable modem and DVR package from Cox. After some initial trouble with them I have to agree with Morphiend. The initial trouble was that it took the guy 3 tries to bring the right equipment to get the job done. Although after the first failure I got the guy to schedule me in the 6-8 pm block on subsequent days. On top of that I got the install for free and a $100 credit ($50 for each extra visit).

The second service call was because a squirrell chewed through enough of the line to knock out the cable modem. They got there the next day, again at 6-8pm, and got it fixed. That's the only outage I have had in a little over a year.

The only bad part is that it's not cheap... What I mentioned above plus the cheap movie channels (encore, ifc, sundance) costs $113/month.

If you want a break down from the last bill:

Cox Standard: $39.25
Cox Digital (2 TVs): $15.48
DVR Service: $9.95
Cable Box Rental (2 TVs): $3.99
DVR Converter: $3.99

Internet Service: $39.95

[HaemishM]

I think it's going to be HIGHLY dependent on what the cable is like in your area.

In my neck of the woods, there are 3 counties that make up the metro area. I live in the 1 county out of the 3 that cannot by law be serviced by the predominant cable company in the area, Time-Warner Cable. If I could get TWC, I would. However, I cannot by law. Since I live in an apartment complex, my complex is able to dictate what cable companies can and cannot service the apartments. The only choice (out of 2 possible choices for my area) was Americas Communications, which is essentially a "wireless digital satellite" connection that is run from a central dish in the complex's office by coax to all the apartments. When I moved in here, the cable was free and run by Wireless One (formerly owned by Worldcomm, now non-existant having sold all its assets off - to pay legal fees for Bernie Ebbers, I assume). Once WirelessOne was sold, I had to pay. Both AC and WirelessOne SUCKED ASS. There were frequent outages, some channels just never got better than shitty reception, they constantly shifted channels without notice and customer service was 9-5, M-F only. Some outages lasted over DAYS, and the excuse was that they had to order replacement parts and couldn't hurry it up. My total refund for all the outages over a 2 year period was about $3.

I recently switched to DirectTV. I got local channels, 145 channels + HBO (7 HBO channels), assloads of digital music channels and 3 receivers. There was I think a $15 setup fee, I had to pay about $5 a month for having 3 receivers. I could have gotten the DVR option for $99 on 1 receiver and $5 a month, but passed. My total bill is about $70 a month, while my cable was about $47 a month. Subtract the $12 a month for HBO and I'm not paying that much more. I'm completely happy with what I'm getting. The cable I had before had no digital guide, no music channels and as I said, SUCKED ASS. In the 2 months I've had the satellite, I've had maybe a total of 3 minutes of downtime, 2 minutes of which was during a HEAVY storm, almost tornado weather.

Now, your cable may not suck as badly as mine did. But if it did, the satellite is a much better option.

[Paelos]

While Haemish's experience is important to recognize that cable does completely depend on the provider county, I wouldn't think of small Mississippi counties as being the gold standard for incredible service. If you live in a major city, cable will be your best bet. If you live in a remote area, satellite is the only way to go. That's how I break it down.

[HaemishM]

Except that I live in a "major city" as Mississippi goes, or major metro area. Jackson, MS (and the surrounding suburb type areas) are hardly rural or "small." They may not be as large as say Atlanta, but that doesn't make them remote. Go about 15 miles or so, you get rural.

It's not just dependent on being in a major city, it's also the companies that provide the service. 10 years ago, Time-Warner Cable was an iminently shitty service that held a virtual monopoly on the counties it serviced. Now, it still holds a monopoly, it's just improved its service greatly, as well as improving its public image.

[Polysorbate80]

Also, on the splitter thing, you have to be sure to get one that doesn't block the cablemodem's signal.. the cheap ones didn't work for me when I tried it.  Something about the Mhz not being high enough or something...

I've got mine split twice that way (once to get it to the basement, and once more to feed the TV and PC both), and I've never had any problems with it that weren't the fault of the cable company.  

Of course, the installer swore up and down it wouldn't work...probably hoping to get the opportunity to install (and bill for) two more cable outlets.  Which would have meant him using those same two cheap splitters the same as I did, and charging me $75-100 for it (only they would be hidden inside the wall where I couldn't see them.)

Now, I won't swear to good results if you use a distribution amplifier instead of just the basic unpowered cheapo unit.  I suspect it wouldn't function.

[Paelos]

My mistake. Jackson is large; thought you were further out Haemish. In that case, make sure to check your operators and the fees. Also, I'd default to cable first since you usually don't get involved in any contracts, or equipment expenses right off the bat. I don't really know if satellite operates like that anymore with the newer plans though.

[HaemishM]

I pay nothing for the satellite equipment, but I'm on a 1-year contract. Which simply means if I cancel before the year is up, I pay some ridiculous equipment fee, much like with my DSL service.

[Riggswolfe]

I will say I have Cox cable and currently work for them. (Hoping to change that because I want a better paying job).

Our digital service for the most part kicks ass. So does our cable modems (which recently got their speed increased. It drives me crazy when I go to a friends house who has DSL it is sooo slow).

Cox, especially in Oklahoma, has a very good infrastructure. (believe it or not Oklahoma is one of the Cox test markets, for instance, we are currently testing cable modems that work through your electrical outlet instead of a cable outlet.)

To Polysorbate: The reason you were discouraged from using splitters is because they are a major source of ingress/egress for the most part. Also, you'd be surprised how often splitters cause problems either with modems or digital cable. I'm sure the installer also wanted the money for outlets, but he is also trained to avoid splitters if at all possible. For one thing, the FCC frowns big time on Egress. (Signal leakage)

By the way, to answer any questions, I'm in the tech support side of Cox, not the sales side. I deal all day with people who use splitters and are mad because they have bad reception or intermittent internet service.

[Polysorbate80]

I work with this stuff every day as well; we've got (literally) miles of cable running through our video facility, and we're not even that big as far as production houses go.

Splitters per se aren't the problem; it's the fucked up ways people hook them up that are.  Properly connected they're not any worse than any other coax connection in your house as far as ingress/egress, they just add more connections to potentially be trouble spots.  Make sure you're using screw-on connectors and that they're on snug, which you should do anyway.  Loose connections are the devil for just about anything, expecially with those retards that just plug the bare center conductor wire directly into the splitter...  

You do lose signal strength with any splitter, unless it has a line amp--I suspect that it wouldn't pass signal through in reverse, though, so it's most likely worthless for a modem connection.  And I will say, don't buy the absolutely cheapest connecter, spend a couple extra bucks (I refuse to shop for anything at Radio Shack unless I need it yesterday, and I'm going to throw it away and replace it with something better when I'm not in panic mode)

All in all, it should work fine for a majority of folks, unless they've got crappy wire somewhere in their house, or they're trying to run ungodly lengths of cable, or they're just mentally defective and can't figure out how to plug 'A' into 'B' right.

BTW, I can't imagine that electrical outlets for cable connectivity are a good idea.  Electrical wiring in a lot of homes (especially older homes) is quite noisy, and with all the ways people fuck up plugging in their appliances it's just got to be more trouble than it's worth, especially if you're worried about ingress/egress.

[grebo]

Back when I originally tried to split my cable for use with the CableModem I had, I used a splitter that was lying around.  Cablemodem would constantly drop the connection.

Went out and got a splitter that said "Phillips" on it, and all was sunshine and roses.  Only other difference was the first splitter said 900Mhz and the Phillips one said 1000Mhz.  Not sure if that had anything to do with it...

I think I'll get the Dish Network thing.  $30/mo for 2 tvs and all the channels we watch normally (plus 50 I would never watch.... 4 religious channels?  12 home shopping?  bleh) including locals.

[Riggswolfe]

IBTW, I can't imagine that electrical outlets for cable connectivity are a good idea.  Electrical wiring in a lot of homes (especially older homes) is quite noisy, and with all the ways people fuck up plugging in their appliances it's just got to be more trouble than it's worth, especially if you're worried about ingress/egress.

It's in the testing phases. I'm not following it real close but I believe it's being used as a router option. The guy who trained me for my job is one of the people testing it. He says it works ok.

[Polysorbate80]

I'd be curious to see if they can pull it off.  The majority of the time, if we get RF interference in a signal, it's coming from an AC power line somewhere--the cables are crossing, or there's bad shielding on one or both of the lines, or the power is just dirty.

Even if the line is clean to start with, plugging in one bad device can mess up the whole thing.  When we built our new facility ~3 years ago, we went so far as to install two separate power circuits.  All our production gear is on its own circuit, heavily conditioned and totally isolated from the rest of the building's power.  Drove the electricians crazy wiring that up :)

[Bunk]

By the way, to answer any questions, I'm in the tech support side of Cox, not the sales side. I deal all day with people who use splitters and are mad because they have bad reception or intermittent internet service.

So what is there for an alternative Riggs? My apartment has one total cable line coming in.  I had a choice of paying a guy to come in and put splitters behind the wall plates, or just putting in the splitters myself. Obviously I did it myself.

Im currently running one standard tv, 1 digital cable, 1 HD digital cable, and two cable modems off of that one line and it works, but just barely. Are there signal boosters or anything like that available that would actually help?

[Polysorbate80]

How are you splitting your cable?  Are you using one splitter with multiple outs, or are you splitting it more than once?  

Folr the cheap fix:

If you're just using one box to split five ways, think about switching over to two boxes, a three-way first in line with one connection to each modem and the third going to another three-way which feeds the TVs.  If tv reception suffers, you might add a distribution amp in the line between the two splitters.  In any case, buy decent splitters and cables, that's a lot of signal loss with that many destinations.

If you've got multiple splitters in use currently, then again, you'd want to move the modems as far upstream as you can (preferably off the first splitter)

EDIT:  something like this unit might do the trick for you.  Definitely more pricey, though.

[MisterNoisy]

IBTW, I can't imagine that electrical outlets for cable connectivity are a good idea.  Electrical wiring in a lot of homes (especially older homes) is quite noisy, and with all the ways people fuck up plugging in their appliances it's just got to be more trouble than it's worth, especially if you're worried about ingress/egress.

It's in the testing phases. I'm not following it real close but I believe it's being used as a router option. The guy who trained me for my job is one of the people testing it. He says it works ok.

You're not referring to PowerLine networking are you?

As for cheaper amps that will do the job, there's this or this, but your cable provider will likely install an amp for you for (Cox does it for about $65) and warrant/replace it as long as you keep service with them.