ATITD: A Good Alternative to Darkfall

[Slyfeind]

The problem I've noticed with games where crafting is better than combat, is players complain how the PvP or PvE sucks and the crafters are getting all the love. If the combat is better than crafting, then nobody really focuses on crafting and it's wasted dev hours.

[DeathInABottle]

The private beta for Tale 4 started yesterday, the public begins on the 6th, and it launches on the 13th.  I guess there's not a lot to "beta test" when you're releasing the same game for the fourth time.

Teppy claims that there will be changes, however:

You'll notice significant improvements to the user interface and graphics. The mining system is all new: Mining Iron is now very different from mining Copper, Copper is quite different from Gold, or Silver, and so on. Ecology now plays a more prominent role throughout the game. The cooking system, perhaps already the most sophisticated in any online game, has been further refined.
And there are tons of little touches that you'll notice - a whole new system for the use of character stats, dramatically faster run speeds, and new approaches to many Principles.

I might sign on for the fast running alone.

[Signe]

I don't know, I don't know!  I might give it another go for a bit.  I'm not sure that faster running will be fast enough to make running in that game completely tolerable, at least scenery-wise.  I hope so.  I hope they let me run really really fast!  REALLY FAST!!  Maybe if any of the Somebob/Slyfiend/Xanthi/Rasix/Nebu/etc. or whoever groups play for a bit, I could be tempted.  Maybe.  Just don't put me in charge of camels!  It's not my fault when I kill them!

[Slyfeind]

Because of the overhead perspective, run speed will always seem way too slow. It is improved a bit, and the game world is smaller in scale. They pretty much redid the whole map.

They made the usual mistake with the art direction; they're going for more realism, less cartoon, and so everything is shades of brown and grey. You can't tell the difference between mud, dirt, and grass. Flax farming is hard, because the flax beds look the same as the ground, so you don't know where to click. Everything looks horribly boring.

Avatars are horrible. We have 1950's hair styles, neat and trim, and polo shirts and khaki slacks. I assume they're either place holders, or they just gave up on the Ancient Egypt idea and are trying to be more modern.

The UI is a bit cleaner. Overall gameplay feels the same, whereas previous tales have all felt different from the start. There are still levels, and you're still required to do things you hate in order to get to the things you want to do. I suspect Teppy's going to make it even worse, just to spite the players. It's very much become an ego thing for him now, trying to prove the players that their idea of fun is wrong, and we just need to see things his way.

I'll stick through the beta, but I likely won't be playing live. Honestly, if you were to show me screenshots from all the previous tales, I'd think Tale 4 is the first one. Everything is so unfinished and hacky, whereas previous tales felt far more polished and refined, even in their early beta stages. They needed to keep the fun bits that worked, not throw them out just because they think they know better.

[Numtini]

I would like to give it a shot, but I don't know if I can handle the levels. I hated the things and I agree with Sly, Teppy is just refusing to listen to reality on them. As someone who's been waiting for the new tale and observing from a distance, it really seems like he's checked out in general, so I'm not surprised the beta is wonky and I'd expect release of T4 will be late.

[Nebu]

ATitD is an old chat interface best used while watching your macros play the game.  Expecting much more at this point is a sign of denial.  Seriously, the most fun I had in this game was in crafting creative macros to play it for me. 

FYI: Teppy has been checked out since the mid-point in Tale 2. 

[DeathInABottle]

Seriously, the most fun I had in this game was in crafting creative macros to play it for me.

This.  Perfecting my oscillating bonfire macro in T2 was tremendous amounts of fun.

Thanks for the heads up on the ugliness, Sly.  I'll probably play through the trial, but if it's as bad as you say, I'll be giving this telling a pass.

[Slyfeind]

The word is, they understand the textures are too muted and blendy so they're making them stand out a bit more. So at least there's that....

[Nyght]

The UI is a bit cleaner. Overall gameplay feels the same, whereas previous tales have all felt different from the start. There are still levels, and you're still required to do things you hate in order to get to the things you want to do. I suspect Teppy's going to make it even worse, just to spite the players. It's very much become an ego thing for him now, trying to prove the players that their idea of fun is wrong, and we just need to see things his way.

I'll stick through the beta, but I likely won't be playing live. Honestly, if you were to show me screenshots from all the previous tales, I'd think Tale 4 is the first one. Everything is so unfinished and hacky, whereas previous tales felt far more polished and refined, even in their early beta stages. They needed to keep the fun bits that worked, not throw them out just because they think they know better.

I have played every beta and for some months in every telling. From the sound of this, it will be the first one I skip. Can't even get excited about a free beta after this news. Sad to see this game degraded every telling.

[Slyfeind]

On the plus side, they're adding tons and tons of achievements to the game which sound fun. They're not telling what they'll be, but they're in line with other games' achievements, like eat 100 fresh herbs or climb the highest peak or whatever.

[Kamen]

It appears that Teppy has decided to prohibit building chests outside of compounds or warehouses in T4:

http://www.atitd.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12786

No idea how expensive warehouses will be to build.

So now, I guess, instead of finding chests here and there we will find warehouses with chests in them - presumably decaying unless it has a cornerstone installed?

[WindupAtheist]

Why on earth would anyone ever play this? I would play Shadowbane before this. I would play Horizons again before this, and my 30 minutes in Horizons almost killed me.

[Nebu]

Why on earth would anyone ever play this? I would play Shadowbane before this. I would play Horizons again before this, and my 30 minutes in Horizons almost killed me.

The crafting tree is quite engaging.  The tech race in the first 2 months of the game is actually quite fun if you have an immense amount of free time and enjoy puzzle/crafting games.  The players in the game are also some of the more intelligent that I've come across since my MUD days. 

[Draegan]

Why on earth would anyone ever play this? I would play Shadowbane before this. I would play Horizons again before this, and my 30 minutes in Horizons almost killed me.

You would think installing that game would make your computer explode.

[Slyfeind]

It appears that Teppy has decided to prohibit building chests outside of compounds or warehouses in T4....

Yeah, that is so weird. I guess instead of tons of little chests all over the world, he wants to see tons of huge warehouses. WTF LAG?

Why on earth would anyone ever play this? I would play Shadowbane before this. I would play Horizons again before this, and my 30 minutes in Horizons almost killed me.

The thing that most engages me about this is, when players can't fight anything, and frustration sets in, they find other ways to mess with people, sometimes without even knowing it. There's some of the most intense dramas in that game that you just can't find anywhere else. I always feel if a game doesn't get me riled up or excited or stressed out, I'm not getting my money's worth. By that metric, ATITD is the only game I get my money's worth from.

[Quinton]

It appears that Teppy has decided to prohibit building chests outside of compounds or warehouses in T4....

Yeah, that is so weird. I guess instead of tons of little chests all over the world, he wants to see tons of huge warehouses. WTF LAG?

Yeah, I don't get it.  When I last played it was when the compounds were introduced and I think they ruined the look of the world.  I understand, technically, the problem they're trying to solve, but the results are just so depressing.  The funky free-standing camps and structures and so on was what made it actually fun to explore in earlier tellings and made places have some character.  Now it's like "Egypt: The Suburbs".  Bleah!

I second the comment about the players.  I met some really really nice and thoughtful people in ATITD.  Very different from almost every other online game I've played in some ways.

[newcastle]

What a beautifully cynical crowd!  I've been playing atitd 4 since it started.  Although I have played a few months of T3, and maybe a month total between T1 and T2, and have always burnt out in those previous tales, something about starting at the beginning of this tale has been a different experience.  I've been having a blast playing the game, but this is completely on an intellectual level.  I mean, I don't get any adrenaline rush like I did in 8v8 RvR DAoC style, or even WoW dungeon crawling style.  However, when I am able to figure something out on my own, or a new system that no one has been able to figure out yet.. that is a thrill! 

Maybe I am just a lot older now, but today's MMO's are just not doing it for me.  I had such a huge disappointment with both Age of Conan, and Warhammer.  Being a big fan of Mythic's DAoC, I was particularly looking forward to Warhammer Online... but as we all know, it wasn't as fun as it could have been.   ATITD is a really great change of pace from these other hack n slash games.  These games are just so unoriginal to me now, and ATITD is the only game I've seen that stimulates its player base on a purely intellectual level.  Its been fun so far!

- Daniels

[Signe]

I always have good fun for a while when I play a new version, too.  I think ATITD is very, very clever.  It just doesn't last more than a couple of months for me.  Then again, neither do the traditional MMOs.  I have a dark feeling that it is possible that this is just the way I play games.   

Thank you for calling us beautiful!  No one ever does.

[LK]

No, I just think that once you learn the ins and outs of a system and there's nothing more to it, you move on. ATITD is fun until soul-crushing grind kicks in.

[Numtini]

I found the biggest problem was everyone knows everything and just blew through everything, leaving me feeling very much out of things.

[Nebu]

I found the biggest problem was everyone knows everything and just blew through everything, leaving me feeling very much out of things.

ATitD has become a high school simulator.  There are the "cool kids" that know how to manipulate the system and control the test passage and then there's everyone else.  If you aren't on the bandwagon with the "cool kids" you're very much a second-class citizen in the game. 

It's still fun to dabble in, but don't think for a minute that you'll be competitive unless you're connected politically in game. 

[tmp]

ATitD is the only MMO really that's made me go "fuck it" and never return right after i managed to get through the tutorial and off the newbie island. And i actually like crafting in most games... but somehow they managed to make it feel both extremely grindy and unrewarding.

[Slyfeind]

Maybe I am just a lot older now, but today's MMO's are just not doing it for me.  I had such a huge disappointment with both Age of Conan, and Warhammer.  Being a big fan of Mythic's DAoC, I was particularly looking forward to Warhammer Online... but as we all know, it wasn't as fun as it could have been.   ATITD is a really great change of pace from these other hack n slash games.  These games are just so unoriginal to me now, and ATITD is the only game I've seen that stimulates its player base on a purely intellectual level.  Its been fun so far!

If you like it now, you should have seen it five years ago. It was like they took the ATITD of today, but put in more awesome, and travelled back in time to release it. Mind blowing!

And yeah, I totally get the "cool kids" syndrome going on. And I love it. All the game systems in the world can't regulate the kind of socio-political game that emerged, and it surpassed even Teppy's wildest dreams. In that, I think it was a success. But if taken as purely a crafting game, even the devs say it sucks.

[Nebu]

I loved ATitD during the first telling.  I played the hell out of it.  Every telling after, I couldn't seem to last longer than a few weeks.

I enjoy puzzle games most when people haven't figured out all of the puzzles yet.  That and I'm a sucker for the new server arms race.  Gets me in MMOs every time.

[Slyfeind]

In Tale 3, I was a finalist for the Demi-Pharaoh election, and it was late in the telling so people were all rather apathetic. A lot of players were wondering when there would be a debate/chat with the finalists, but we all couldn't get time to play at the same time, so we settled on a forum thread. Then another finalist scheduled a chat for a certain time and date, didn't tell anybody, but it happened anyway. Most people could make it. I could not. I came in last in the election. It pissed me the fuck off to high heaven, and to this day I still get a bit of bile and fury when I think of it. And really, I wouldn't have it any other way. If I got back into it, I would still hate on her for that crap. She made an enemy. And that's something you just can't get in games nowadays. It's all "Oh you took my flag or destroyed my spaceship or something, oh noes here's a bit of downtime for me as I click twice and get back into things NO WORRIES TEEHEE." No, these are grudges. Others have faced worse. I was there for some of the most amazing shitstorms ever seen in an online world.

[Ghambit]

In Tale 3, I was a finalist for the Demi-Pharaoh election, and it was late in the telling so people were all rather apathetic. A lot of players were wondering when there would be a debate/chat with the finalists, but we all couldn't get time to play at the same time, so we settled on a forum thread. Then another finalist scheduled a chat for a certain time and date, didn't tell anybody, but it happened anyway. Most people could make it. I could not. I came in last in the election. It pissed me the fuck off to high heaven, and to this day I still get a bit of bile and fury when I think of it. And really, I wouldn't have it any other way. If I got back into it, I would still hate on her for that crap. She made an enemy. And that's something you just can't get in games nowadays. It's all "Oh you took my flag or destroyed my spaceship or something, oh noes here's a bit of downtime for me as I click twice and get back into things NO WORRIES TEEHEE." No, these are grudges. Others have faced worse. I was there for some of the most amazing shitstorms ever seen in an online world.

this is classic...  this type o' shit makes me want to DL this thing (again)