Spy Rant

[Triforcer]

I have over 100 hours with the spy, less than ten hours with everything else (heavy might be a little above).  Things I've learned since moving from the spy:

1)  Getting backstabbed by spies (I can count on two hands how often that happened when I was playing a spy) is NOT FUN.  I am having fun, laying down the offensive firepower, when BAM!  Down.  After three consecutive deaths like this, I want to throw my computer out the window.  I don't even have a chance to fight back!  I feel like that guy in the Family Guy episode that was going to stab Peter/Joe/Quagmire/Cleveland in jail, and then stabbed himself and said "Wow.  Is this what I've been doing to people?"

2)  Nobody plays spies on a public server.  I'll be playing defense on goldrush and there are three heavy/medic combos pushing the cart, and NOBODY is there to backstab them.  I'll be playing a level with a lot of sgs, nobody defending, and NOBODY tries to sap them- people just keep rushing out and dying.  Half the time, I switch back to spy out of sheer frustration, and it takes me literally a minute of play to break whatever logjam my idiot teammates refused to try to solve. 

3)  I hate being hit by SGs.  Why do they see me now?

4)  I hate snipers.  They were free points before, and now they keep killing me!  Why?

Moral of the story- I am this close to going back to spy exclusively.  I can't stand not going wherever I want to go- staying behind a frontline is so limiting.  I can't stand being limited by SGs or dependent on other classes.   I guess once you go spy, you can never go back 

[MrHat]

Please do stay playing Spy.  I'm happy if theres even 1 decent one on my team.

As for me, I don't have the...fortitude required.  I get too anxious.

[Nija]

There aren't many spies because it's very tough to master. You cross the border between "good" and "bad" around 70 hours played with spy, from what I've noted. I don't think I've played any with you, so no offense intended as you're not a part of my focus group, but I've only seen a handful of good spies. "Freshfruit" who is in the F13 group, being by far and away the best I've seen.


I've put in 70 hours at scout (about 40 hours spent playing matches in various leagues), which is 100% opposite of spy, so I keep telling myself I have that playstyle too ingrained and I'll just never be a good spy.

I have about 60 hours played with each sniper, soldier, and demoman, and 40 at medic, 45 at pyro. 7 hours at spy. So there's my experience.


I've never seen a class that was as hot or as cold as the spy, when you're talking about fps games. A bad spy can be the easiest points in the world. They can be ignored. A good spy, on the other hand, can absolutely cripple the opponent. I guess the sniper class is somewhat like this as well, but at least you have a general idea where a sniper is, at almost all times.

Freshfruit

Me

[K9]

I'm mildly dreading the eventual spy update. A team ideally only has one or two (good) spies, more than that and it all starts to fall to bits.

And yes, getting backstabbed sucks, but that's more the fault of your pyros in my view.

[Samwise]

I think the inevitable all-spy matches are going to be  .  Maybe I'll finally be able to pick up the "kill a spy while he's doing stupid shit" badges.

[rattran]

Back when pyros sucked, I ended up getting banned from a slew of servers (5E) for playing one. Seems all the admins played spies! 

I think Sniper is more OP than spies on pug servers. I've played one a limited amount, racked up lots of points, but had no fun. With spy I've only managed to rack up points for the other team. Still no fun.

[Ookii]

Be a spy, the game needs good spies!  It's okay to learn other classes when the opposing team has a million pyros guarding whatever, but spies can turn a losing team into a winning team with the right moves.

I wish I had the patience for a spy, I also get too excited when I sneak up on people.   

[Megrim]

I think the inevitable all-spy matches are going to be  .  Maybe I'll finally be able to pick up the "kill a spy while he's doing stupid shit" badges.

Actually, i'm dreading the Engeneer update. *shudder*

[K9]

I think Sniper is more OP than spies on pug servers. I've played one a limited amount, racked up lots of points, but had no fun. With spy I've only managed to rack up points for the other team. Still no fun.

I have to agree that the Sniper is the most boring class to play by a long way.

[Triforcer]

I think Sniper is more OP than spies on pug servers. I've played one a limited amount, racked up lots of points, but had no fun. With spy I've only managed to rack up points for the other team. Still no fun.

I have to agree that the Sniper is the most boring class to play by a long way.

Its fun in limited, situational doses.  The other day my team was stalled on the final cart push in badwater.  I went around to one of the back windows (not the obvious front one), exploded three sentries, and killed about eight people before anyone came up to get me (wasn't hard, none of them were really moving).  That was fun, but I can't stand playing sniper for more than five minutes at a time.

[Nija]

I have to agree that the Sniper is the most boring class to play by a long way.

Pretty sure that honor goes to Engineer.

Sniper is great on all but CTF maps. Goldrush and Badwater are a sniper's paradise.

[Samwise]

Lies!  Engineer CAN be boring, but you can also have fun being a right bastard with offensively placed buildings (nothing drives the other team NUTS like having a sentry gun that's closer to their base than yours), and once all your buildings are placed you can go get in people's faces with the shotgun or wrench and be moderately effective.

Even at its most exciting, sniping is all about sitting in one place far away from the bad guys, and you spend most of your time just watching for other snipers.  Snore.

Not that I don't enjoy headshotting heavy/medic teams, or being the one guy who spots a spy and takes him down mid-backstab.  But those moments are sadly rare.

[MrHat]

I love playing sniper.  Nothing brings more satisfaction than mowing down 3-4 guys in one area, then having to sit there and wait because no one goes through that area anymore.

[K9]

Green?

Also Engineers require an alarming amount of micromanagement to play well. I think they're tempting to label as boring, because on some maps, and on pug servers they can be stupidly effective, and once an engineer turtle is set up it can be a royal arse to break (4-5 engineers all covering each other with maxed out sentries). Against good players, playing Engineer well is pretty hard in my view.

Also Engineers do get involved with the team at least, sniping is such a solitary activity.

[HaemishM]

I love sniping. Nothing gives me more joy than to have a sniper to sniper game of cat and mouse. I especially love watching a heavy medic team drop uber, only to see their medic take one right in the cocount.

I am schizophrenic about my class a lot of the time, switching depending on how bad I'm sucking with what I'm playing. Spies are fun to play but very frustrating if you can't get in the groove or the opposition is good at defeating spy tactics. A good spy can definitely turn the tide, though, especially on maps like the Goldrush maps, where there are huge chokepoints that can easily be locked down by good pyro/engy/sniper combos.

[Triforcer]

Also, re: snipers- I'm pretty sure that 85% of them don't realize that their sniper rifle can DAMAGE SENTRIES.  I am 100% not joking here. 

[MrHat]

Also, re: snipers- I'm pretty sure that 85% of them don't realize that their sniper rifle can DAMAGE SENTRIES.  I am 100% not joking here. 

Weird.

My fav way to point-whore is to just kill a sentry an engineer keeps trying to build.

[HaemishM]

Also, re: snipers- I'm pretty sure that 85% of them don't realize that their sniper rifle can DAMAGE SENTRIES.  I am 100% not joking here. 

How could you not realize that? If other guns do damage to buildings, wouldn't a sniper rifle?

/boggle

[MahrinSkel]

Pardon my ignorance: What game are we talking about here?

--Dave

[K9]

Team Fortress 2

[Soln]

jesus fuck -- nerf spies now.  Months overdue.  Jeebus. /sigh

[Valmorian]

jesus fuck -- nerf spies now.  Months overdue.  Jeebus. /sigh

Wha??  I never have problems with spies.. pyros on the other hand..

[Kail]

jesus fuck -- nerf spies now.  Months overdue.  Jeebus. /sigh

Wha??  I never have problems with spies.. pyros on the other hand..

Yeah, I don't get spies at all.  Seems to take far too much time to get good at them (I know I'm not, and most of the spies I see aren't), and even once you are good at them, all they're useful for is occasionally pissing someone off.  I generally see them like snipers, in a "random person walking along, walking along, oops, I'm instantly dead" kind of role, rather than an actually useful one (e.g. capturing a point or blunting an enemy push).  All the serious problems I run into are caused by a medic + soldier/heavy, or an entrenched and defended engineer or two.

The only thing that I think really needs fixing on spies is that facestabbing BS.  For fuck's sake, it's been like, almost a year, fix that shit already.  Backstabbing as an ambush tactic is annoying, but whatever.  Backstabbing as basically a randomly occuring one hit kill against everyone is retarded.

[K9]

or an entrenched and defended engineer or two.

Ironically, entrenched engineers are highly vulnerable to spies. Though with a pyro on point spies don't stand much of a chance.

Spies are very very squishy.