AOC PvP weekend - Spill the beans!

[Mrbloodworth]

I know some of you were in it. There is no NDA. Lets have it. I have been reading really good reviews all weekend....

[Nebu]

I know some of you were in it. There is no NDA. Lets have it. I have been reading really good reviews all weekend...

Links please. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I know some of you were in it. There is no NDA. Lets have it. I have been reading really good reviews all weekend...

Links please. 

Sure, it will take me a moment to get them.

One here on the Wow forums.

Nice long series of blogs here. Good pros and cons, and some "edits" as he/she progressed through the weekend it seems.

One on the AOC forums, take with a grain of salt.

One on MMORPG.com forums...

BattleGroup9 Forums post.

I can dig up more...

I should craftily before someone comes in here and says something. When i said really good reviews, i mean the over all impression of the game is good, from just about every player source i read, everyone has things they are picky about, or dislike..for from the most part of what i have encountered, seems like it went well, it was a lot of fun, and impressed a lot of people.

No Review said it was perfect! i hope none thinks i meant that.

[Nebu]

Thanks for taking the time.  I appreciate the links.  Sadly, this right here killed it for me:

Assassin - Really, really fun! I love the ability to execute combos from stealth and the quick attacks. This is, right now, on the top of my list. Burst damage is key for the Assassin because they can not sustain their damage over long periods of time.

STEALTH AND PVP ARE A BAD COMBINATION... MMMMMKAY?

I'll keep browsing for more info.  I'll add to your list if I come across anything that looks objective. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, NP.


The stealth thing, I'm sure you have argued this before, so you got a link as to why you say that (as in where you have explained that conclusion)? Also, I'm quite sure stealth doesn't work like Wow... Lots of videos on youtube about most of the classes from lots of people.

[K9]

Thanks for taking the time.

[Nebu]

The stealth thing, I'm sure you have argued this before, so you got a link as to why you say that (as in where you have explained that conclusion)? Also, I'm quite sure stealth doesn't work like Wow... Lots of videos on youtube about most of the classes from lots of people.

Argument against stealth goes like this:  Stealth grants initiative.  Initiative is a difficult thing to balance.  Conclusion: stealth is difficult to balance as it grants the ability to pick and choose encounters.  For this reason, stealth is a bad thing to include in a pvp game. 

Hope that clarifies my position.

[Mrbloodworth]

Thanks for taking the time.

Oh, no need. I just cruse around looking for reviews by players, much better than those from "Media" sites (there are a ton more, i just linked the ones i could find again easy). I was hoping someone here was in the PvP weekend, and would be inclined to give an impression.

[Pendan]

My machine is an AMD 4800+ with a nVidea 7800 graphic card but is only AGP so slower than other 7800s and or course slower than 8 and 9 series. I used this same machine for the Vanguard beta in January of last year. I am saying this because I think Vanguard ran better than AOC in this PvP weekend. With Vanguard when running along I would get a lot of lag but if I stood still for a while and then spun around holding the D key everything would eventually get loaded in and the spin would be lag free. That was not true in AOC. If I stood still and used mouse look to change my rotation by 90 degrees or less then I could maintain 30 fps. If I spun with the D key or used mouse look for greater than 90 degree turn I would have pauses and skips. FPS meter would drop below 10 at times. After I got through the newbie area and was teleported into the PvP waiting area my average FPS dropped down to 5 with 20 or more others running round on screen. In actual PvP zones I was ok until more than 3 were on screen when I would start lagging. With 10 on screen I was useless in PvP.

I had all graphic settings on bare minimum. Game looked better than Vanguard on minimum settings (which was really bad looking). Some of the AOC graphic settings did not appear to have any real effect. For instance the check box to disable water reflections did not appear to do anything for me. This will hopefully change and with other optimizations the game performance improve. I am not much of a graphic person. I like my games to have functionality and fun first and graphics second. I am not even very good at evaluating graphics. That said, I was impressed by the character models in AOC. I think they could actually use some settings to make characters not look so good for “low end” machines. Swimming was quite impressive (unlike Vanguard where it was one of the worse of any game have played where you were either drowning or bunny hopping across the water).

As far was I could tell my performance issue were not CPU related. Neither of my cores appeared to ever go above 80% and together averaged around 60% CPU usage. It appeared both cores were being used instead of like some games where one of the cores is mostly idle (another Vanguard failure).

So performance tainted my play experience drastically. Combat I felt was more interesting than most games. Nothing revolutionary even if they might claim so. Still pressing buttons at the right time but blindly smashing buttons not on cool down won’t get you far like in most games. With only 1 quest series for the PvP weekend and most things outside combat disabled hard to say much else. The voice acting was good and the character lip movement, facial expressions, and animations better than I have seen in a MMORPG.

[Nija]

STEALTH AND PVP ARE A BAD COMBINATION... MMMMMKAY?

Every class gets stealth.

[Mrbloodworth]

Thanks for your post.

I have read that this weekends client is older than the current beta client. Something about the engine is Cheetah 1, and retail/real beta is using Cheetah 2 that is more optimized, and that dx10 is also in that version. From all accounts, it seems as if this was an older, and striped down version of the game client really only dedicated to testing server stress.

So, for you, this may be good news. Or, this is simply just fan "Miracle patch" talk.

[Velorath]

Thanks for taking the time.

Oh, no need. I just cruse around looking for reviews by players, much better than those from "Media" sites (there are a ton more, i just linked the ones i could find again easy). I was hoping someone here was in the PvP weekend, and would be inclined to give an impression.

I don't really have much of an opinion to give.  The pvp weekend thing was very limited so it's hard to give anything other than vague impressions.  This is especially true since we're seeing the pvp in conditions that presumably won't occur in the live game in that everyone is the same level and has the same gear.  The pvp weekend gives an accurate idea of what the first five levels are like, and you get a feel for the combat somewhat, but that's about it.  I'm more interested in trying to get in on the open beta before I can really start judging anything.

[shiznitz]

Thanks for your post.

I have read that this weekends client is older than the current beta client. Something about the engine is Cheetah 1, and retail/real beta is using Cheetah 2 that is more optimized, and that dx10 is also in that version. From all accounts, it seems as if this was an older, and striped down version of the game client really only dedicated to testing server stress.

So, for you, this may be good news. Or, this is simply just fan "Miracle patch" talk.

The magical mysterious golden client version myth emerges again! AOv2: Action!

[Miasma]

Second hand from a guild mate is that the first day was pretty empty because it was so hard to download/patch etc.  He was pretty meh on the solo intro stuff he tried.  The second day he tried the PvP but the game was lagging so badly he couldn't move and gave up.

Funcom.

[Mrbloodworth]

STEALTH AND PVP ARE A BAD COMBINATION... MMMMMKAY?

Every class gets stealth.

I don't think thats the same thing.

[Miasma]

A different guildmate had this to say:

I found out I was in this on Friday and for grins and chuckles started the download, which was finished when I got up early sat. morning. Install was without problem - and game loaded fine after I upgraded my video driver, thanks to the game prompting me. I have a high end rig, well it's a year old - 2G memory, 6700 dual core 2.8GH, 8800 GTX video card.

The pvp weekend was focused on playing level 20 chars in the "BG"s - two choices of game Capture the Flag or Annihilation. Annihilation was an outdoor map with two captureable spawn points, a health regeneration point in the center of the field between your opposing start points. Teams were 6 players. Each starting base has a destructable resurection totem. Capture the Flag had 3 maps, an outdoor ravine with camps at each end, and more interestingly 2 different temple/dungeon setting with multiple levels and paths to the flags. Teams were 6 players in all these.

Once you get the game running you are presented with character selection, and had 8 empty slots for this weekend demo. I tried out 9 of the 12 classes over the weekend. Once you create a char, you had the option of running through a short version of the starter zone, which I did once. Otherwise, you spawned into the pvp lobby, with a pre-equiped level 20 char.

I enjoyed the starter quest area. Graphics are realistic, i.e. vanguard/eq2. But what I really liked was the feel of play. It was a series of multiple mob fights that felt "heroic" even though I was a level 2 scrub. I hit level 5 when I finished the intro, and entered the city which for this test was the pvp lobby. Once inside I was a pre-equped level 20 char. I think the solo quest part of the game, as represented by the intro quest, is well done, granted I only went level 1-5. I wonder how quests will be at later levels, when you get out of the level 1-20 solo area.

I was fumbling alot trying to get accustomed to the game. Each class you could mess with your abilities and spells, and retrain your "feats" i.e. specializations, although you only had 12 points for that. You have 3 buttons for melee/ranged attack and have to press one to attack. There is no auto-go-take-a-dump-come-back-to-dead-mob attack. In addition, your skills or special attacks are timer based, and most of them require a series of successful attacks to fire. For example, a knock back attack might require a successful center attack. So you hit the skill, then hit the center attack and if you hit the knock back fires. The special attacks all have cooldowns from a few seconds to a minute, most seemed in the 10-20 second range.

Combat is very tactical. First, the lowbie PvE was easier to control since the mobs weren't running and jumping around. In lowbie pve each mob has 3 shields showing, and they adjust the locations as you fight. These represent where the mobs defense are focused. So mob combat was controlling when to use your special (for this test I had an AE and a knockback) and adjusting your swings to hit the least defended area. I liked it, and found it more engaging than current WoW button smashing.

Collision detection is implement and a factor.

PvP fighting was much more chaotic. Probably due to everyone's lack of familiarity with controls, and classes etc. If two or more jumped me solo it didn't matter what class I was playing I was pretty much toast. I found the Capture the Flag temple maps more educational. You had more opportunities for 1v1 fights, and a few games where we worked as a group. When that happens, the game's tactics come into play. For example, two of us could pin an enemy against the wall and wail away until they did a pushback, our caster/healers could stand behind and not get rushed since you can block out players. You could block a hall if you wanted, however, all your attacks have an ae component - using a large sword against multiple players hits everyone in range. I would have liked to play the demo with a group on vent.

It was a "beta pvp weekend" and there were some beta issues. My concern is the ability of the developer to correct these types of issues prior to release. For example, to switch chars you had to sit at the char select screen (after you logged one out) for a few minutes before you could re-enter the game (this was an acknowledge bug). I had a couple CTDs but only after I had switched chars, and they mentioned some memory leaks (btw, these can take a while to fix and thus my concern).

The UI was too much of a Wow clone for my liking. I'm a big fan of the EQ2 UI, where basically you can size/shape/place 10 action bars (with 10 or 12?) anywhere on the screen. In wow I use a mod which does this. I don't understand why they don't offer this even if they (or any other developer i.e. Mythic in WAR) feel compelled to emulate a wow interface.

[Pendan]

I have read that this weekends client is older than the current beta client.

I never trust a game developer that says this sort of thing. Although I know for a fact it was a different physical client than the general beta I don't think they would have gone too far back in the graphics part of the client. It is just not something a smart developer does when showing it to 20,000 new potential customers.

DX10 will do nothing with my hardware and Win XP system. As I wrote some obvious areas exist for performance increases at least for my machine and these may have been done in a newer client. I don't expect a  miracle build however.

Something I would also note is my machine performs quite well with LOTRO. I have been in lots of 40 on 40 battles with monster play where some others complain a lot but I do fine.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have read that this weekends client is older than the current beta client.

I never trust a game developer that says this sort of thing. Although I know for a fact it was a different physical client than the general beta I don't think they would have gone too far back in the graphics part of the client. It is just not something a smart developer does when showing it to 20,000 new potential customers.

DX10 will do nothing with my hardware and Win XP system. As I wrote some obvious areas exist for performance increases at least for my machine and these may have been done in a newer client. I don't expect a  miracle build however.

Something I would also note is my machine performs quite well with LOTRO. I have been in lots of 40 on 40 battles with monster play where some others complain a lot but I do fine.

Well, i can tell you there is a lot more going on in the rendering engine of AOC than LOTRO, LOTRO is still using some older tech/techniques. Not saying any of this is good or bad.

[Nija]

I don't think thats the same thing.

No, it's exactly the same thing. Every class also gets "perception" which is an 'active reveal' type deal, but you have to turn it on.

Now, assassins DO get a bonus to stealth, but you can still reveal them pretty easily with moderately close levels of perception.

[Aez]

Did they hack the stealth system already?

[Pendan]

Thought of a couple other things with the performance. On the known bugs list was a statement that they were not yet compatible with Athlon XP systems but would be by release. I don't know what this means but could have been part of my problems.

Unlike my beta testing of AO years ago, I had no evidence of server lag. Either was little or was hidden in my graphical/client lag. The login screen always showed the server as under light load but don't know what that was based on.

[Morfiend]

Thanks for your post.

I have read that this weekends client is older than the current beta client. Something about the engine is Cheetah 1, and retail/real beta is using Cheetah 2 that is more optimized, and that dx10 is also in that version. From all accounts, it seems as if this was an older, and striped down version of the game client really only dedicated to testing server stress.

So, for you, this may be good news. Or, this is simply just fan "Miracle patch" talk.

The magical mysterious golden client version myth emerges again! AOv2: Action!

Actually for once this is true. The newer client does run much better, and while the frame drop is still there, it is about 80% better.

[Jashan]

Thanks to bloodworth for the links.

The one thing I think I should offer, is that we were herded into ctf matches when no one had any real idea on how to play their class. The reviews I read above seem to have the best grasp of the game, but the others I have read descend too quickly into typical forum troll bitching. So I would say this weekend was a good taste, but should not be read into too closely.

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't think thats the same thing.

No, it's exactly the same thing. Every class also gets "perception" which is an 'active reveal' type deal, but you have to turn it on.

Now, assassins DO get a bonus to stealth, but you can still reveal them pretty easily with moderately close levels of perception.

Oh, ok, i thought they were to separate systems.

[Mrbloodworth]

Found another long read.

Warning, this guy has worse spelling than me, and apparently, No spell checker on his machine to compensate.

EDIT: Eh, some of his points are uninformed, and opinionated..sorry..

[Nebu]

No, it's exactly the same thing. Every class also gets "perception" which is an 'active reveal' type deal, but you have to turn it on.

Now, assassins DO get a bonus to stealth, but you can still reveal them pretty easily with moderately close levels of perception.

How is this a good idea?  If everyone gets stealth, why give it to anyone?  This seems poorly thought out.

[Threash]

Found another long read.

Warning, this guy has worse spelling than me, and apparently, No spell checker on his machine to compensate.

EDIT: Eh, some of his points are uninformed, and opinionated..sorry..

Holy shit did he really say "yousing", i gotta start yousing that one.

[Morfiend]

I think I liked:

atmoshfer

The best. And I have to say he was spot on with most of his, badly worded, review. I really feel a Hellgate coming on. We need Schild in here to go all fanboy on it and the circle will be complete.

[tmp]

How is this a good idea?  If everyone gets stealth, why give it to anyone?  This seems poorly thought out.

So there's no complaints that only some classes get to cherry pick their encounters, and others have absolutely no way to save themselves from situations where they stand no chance whatsoever..?

If everyone has it then it's just another tool like the weapons and armour. Some get it slightly better than others but everyone is able to mitigate some damage and smack the other guy in the face to deal it, too.

[Draegan]

I've been in the General Beta for about 2 months now, and I've never been able to successfully patch the game to make it work.

[Mrbloodworth]

How is this a good idea?  If everyone gets stealth, why give it to anyone?  This seems poorly thought out.

So there's no complaints that only some classes get to cherry pick their encounters, and others have absolutely no way to save themselves from situations where they stand no chance whatsoever..?

I cherry pick my fights all the time, with things like fear, root and any other CC....oh, and running. ( I normality play CC classes)

[Slayerik]

I've been in the General Beta for about 2 months now, and I've never been able to successfully patch the game to make it work.

Ummm... PM me the info FFS :)

[Nija]

So does the NDA fully drop on May 1st so I can really spill the beans?

[stray]

I've always thought that stealthers should basically be useless in group pvp -- and then on top of that, build the best features of the pvp around group fights (which they should be anyhow).

You might not be able to "balance" a stealth class, but you can balance the overall game in ways that have nothing to do with class balance per se.

[sam, an eggplant]

So does the NDA fully drop on May 1st so I can really spill the beans?

1.5 Term of the Agreement. The beta testing program will be terminated upon the earlier of (i) Funcom's written notice to the Beta Tester or (ii) the commercial release of the Game. However, Section 2 of this Agreement (the Confidentiality provision) as set forth below will continue in full force and effect even after the beta testing program has been terminated.

That said, I suspect plenty of folks never read the NDA and will be spilling away.