f13.net forums - Re: WAR - another newsletter - more RvR, less sport PvP- Hockey Derail

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July 20, 2025, 02:11:39 PM

we're back, baby

Quote from: murdoc on March 11, 2008, 07:16:19 PM

Does that mean you don't want to borrow my 1989 Calgary Flames Video Year Book?

I still have nightmares about 1986 (and Steve Smith) from my days as an Oilers fan.

I love the physical aspect of hockey. Hard checks, fights, etc. The instigator penalty is a large part of why there are so many ugly cheap shots that result in injuries around the league. If little all the little fuckheads who like to use their sticks or check from behind knew that some big ape was going to pull them out of the scrum on their next shift and kick their ass, all that cheap shit would go away instantly. Instead, we have the ridiculous current scenario where someone else on the team has to step up and fight on the dirty player's behalf.

The Vancouver/Edmonton game from a few weeks ago was one of the most entertaining hockey games I have ever seen. Plenty of skill and action, plenty of ill-temperedness and fights.

You people want to watch figure skating or something? I want to see hockey. That means hits, that means toughness and yes, even the odd scrap. Nothing wrong with that.

I will not even believe for a second that people aren't watching hockey in the US because of the fighting. The US has brought the world the NFL, WWE, UFC, NASCAR. And you're going to tell me there's no taste for violence?

And don't tell me about European hockey being more wide open. All it is is the trap being played on a larger ice surface; without hitting. It's awful. Your mistake is using the Olympics as your barometer. This a tournament played entirely by stars; and on a big ice it is awesome. Even the World Championships is played at a pretty high level. Turn down the talent level some and look out. Not good.

The big rink is never coming here, and don't blame Bettman. Just see if you can convince owners at every level from junior on up if they're willing to take out 5-10 rows of prime seating. It ain't happening.

You want to know why the US isn't watching? Because they're not watching what isn't theirs. There is a shortage of American stars, and not much success internationally. Look at when the NHL was enjoying some success in the US in the 90s: US beats Canada in the World Cup. Rangers win the Cup led by (after Messier) their American born goalie and star defenseman. The Stars win it with Mike Modano, Brett Hull and Derian Hatcher (first US born captain to win it).

The US team had a pretty impressive roster then. This generation of player is aging, many retired, and haven't been replaced yet.

Edit: I should add that the league has been completely brain-dead with their TV deals. They signed a terrible deal with NBC and then chose quick cash instead of growing an audience when they left ESPN.

The NHL's TV deals have been fucking atrocious. Not signing the deal with ESPN was a HUGE fucking mistake, no matter what Versus was willing to pay. First off, ESPN is fucking EVERYWHERE. Hell, they even do the sports news on ABCNews. You take hockey away from ESPN, not only are the games going to drop in ratings, ESPN is going to cover it a lot less on all of their channels. That means you don't get any kind of airplay on anything unless some huge, bloody fight happens, and then it's all "HOCKEY IS SO VIOLENT!" It's all bad press. After the strike, the NHL should have realized they were beggars and signed a shit deal accordingly, but with some stipulations about quality of coverage. The Versus and NBC broadcast teams? They are worse than golf announcers.

Quote from: HaemishM on March 12, 2008, 08:56:01 AM

Exactly. They should have re-signed with ESPN for no other reason than the fact it was ESPN. Instead they go on NBC as a second class citizen and get Heidi'd in a deciding Conference final game. Then sign with Versus, to which the US viewing public says: "who the fuck are they? Do I even get that channel? Fuck it. I'm watching poker on ESPN."

The only time I ever watch a game on VS is if it is being broadcast in HD (my cable channel has VS sharing HD with The Golf Channel, so it is dicey). Ditto for NBC.

God I can't wait until HD is the default standard.

The Versus guys really are worse than Bryan Gumbel. Fuck. Just fuck.

Then again, I'm spoiled with Rick Peckham. He's just really good. Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

See, here I am all ready to give NHL hockey a second chance and Special J comes along to carry the torch for the NEVAR SURRENDER crew that doesn't want to change a thing and thinks the NHL had awesome ratings on the prime networks (hint: it didn't. The ratings were suffering a brutal death). When did anyone ever complain about hitting? Hard checks are great. But the NFL has hard tackles, too. But if the two players throw their helmets off and start playing slapfight after the play, they're both ejected and Chris Berman somberly opines about the degeneration of the game. Obviously people can tell the difference between hard play and two guys just smacking each other around out of anger, and guess what? People prefer the first (except for recalcitrant hockey fans, of course). On big ice, I'm not sure the talent level in the NHL is worse than the Olympics. The best players in the world are all here. And it isn't just the talent level. I find US collegiate hockey more watchable than the NHL, and how's that talent level? Nobody cares what country the players come from. You think Dallas fans tune out Mavs games because Nowitzki is German? etc.

If you want your sport to be a niche product, that's fine. I like curling, fencing, and archery. None of them is ever going to get any kind of ratings in the US and it doesn't bother me. But I'm not deluded about why they're niche, which is because most people don't give a rat's ass about them, not because they signed the wrong network deal.

Quote from: sidereal on March 12, 2008, 12:14:15 PM

You don't like fighting, that's fine. But I still don't buy for a second that it's a turn off for the game's popularity. The difference you're missing between the talent on the Olympics and the NHL is 8 teams vs 30. When the NHL has players in the Olympics you have point a game players on the fourth line. If you think the trap is bad now, wait until it gets played by weaker players on a bigger surface.

No, of course Mavs fans don't care. That's because he's playing in a US dominated league, surrounded by a supporting cast of Americans. The NBA, MLB and NFL are the highest professional levels of competition for their sports, they all call the US home and their teams are largely comprised of Americans. There is plenty of room for foreign born players. US based NHL teams on the other hand, import most of, or sometimes all of their talent. Faced with more homegrown competition, it's an uphill battle.