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f13.net General Forums => Everquest 2 => Topic started by: schild on August 16, 2004, 12:54:44 AM



Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 16, 2004, 12:54:44 AM
Quote from: VIP Events stuffs from MMORPG.com
Quests
Some of the more interesting features about the quest system are the Access quests which will grant you access to the instanced areas. Then once you finish that quest you'll have access to that instanced area at whatever rate it can be accessed, be it a weekly spawn or every three days, whatever.

Another very interesting set of quests are the Heritage quests. A lot of these will be fairly difficult but they will give you some Heritage items, some things that you'll remember from EQ1. They will be useful but probably won't do the same things that you may remember them doing in EQ1. One good example of one of the items you can quest for is the Mana Stone. Basically if it's ever been one of the "Top 10 EQ1 Items" then you can probably expect to find a Heritage quest for it.

Also worth noting is the Betrayal quests are almost fully implemented now. We are probably going to make them more and more and more difficult. We want it to be very painful and difficult to betray your city. So when you see that Dark Elf Paladin in Qeynos you're going to know that he went through a lot of trouble to get where he is. Part of it you'll have to have a group for, they don't all have to be doing the betrayal quest though, they're just there to help you get through it. It will also be restricted in how many people can do it in one day. Also as a good teaser this would be one of the few places you get to talk to Antonia or Lucan.

There are also things like, just to tease a little, some of the class quests are actually really cool. They're not your typical collect and fetch type of things. One of the Rogue quests for example, I had to sneak in, get some plans and sneak out. It wasn't about combat at all. It was really difficult, there were callouts from the guards like "What was that?" and I'd have to freeze and avoid being found. It has an almost Metal Gear Solid feel to it. There are a lot of these quests like this that aren't what you've come to expect as your typical fair for quests. There are times where we don't want you, where you're not meant to fight your way out of things. Sometimes you'll be forced to stealth or think it through, use that grey matter for something other than holding your ears apart. If you try to fight your way through these situations you will die.

There are a LOT of quests in the game. To give you an example, my wife is playing the beta, and she got really into doing the quests. By level 9 I think she had completed like 56 quests and had 64 pending. And she was still going. The main focus of our quests is content and the item rewards. And then we have other new quest types also. For example you have the Slayer quests. If you want to earn the Orc-Slayer title you have to go out and kill a certain number of Orcs. There are many different types of Slayer quests and you can gain several Slayer titles. Or the exploration quests for example. There are also item quests, you might kill some random mob and it'll drop an item which might start a quest for you. There are a ton of different quests in the game and it's not about quantity, it's about variety, we want to provide as many different options for you to spend your time ingame as we can.


I like the idea of having to finish a quest to be able to access it any time during a scheduled spawn window. That should eliminate camping immediately. The number of quests makes me happy as well.

I'm gonna stop here and do a writeup tomorrow or the next day of all the fanboi shit I came across in the last couple days. I've just finished moving (to a new apartment) and have the mental capacity of a 5 year old at the moment.


Title: Re: EQII Quest News
Post by: stray on August 16, 2004, 01:31:06 AM
Quote from: schild
I like the idea of having to finish a quest to be able to access it any time during a scheduled spawn window. That should eliminate camping immediately. The number of quests makes me happy as well.


Sounds cool, but it appears that questing isn't a very good way to gain xp. That guy said his wife did 56 quests and was only lvl 9. Sounds like camping/grinding is still the best method to gain xp, while quests are for content, items, and whatnot. But at least it sounds like there's alot of fun to be had without worrying too much about gaining xp and getting to the "endgame".


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: MrHat on August 16, 2004, 01:37:28 AM
Yup, sounds cool.

Quote
Also worth noting is the Betrayal quests are almost fully implemented now. We are probably going to make them more and more and more difficult. We want it to be very painful and difficult to betray your city. So when you see that Dark Elf Paladin in Qeynos you're going to know that he went through a lot of trouble to get where he is. Part of it you'll have to have a group for, they don't all have to be doing the betrayal quest though, they're just there to help you get through it. It will also be restricted in how many people can do it in one day. Also as a good teaser this would be one of the few places you get to talk to Antonia or Lucan.


Sexy grind.  Should make some of the masochists happy.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Morfiend on August 16, 2004, 01:52:09 AM
No PVP makes Morphiend go meh.

I just dont feel any need to advance in a game with no pvp. and with no pvp, advancment is all they offer.

Not to take away from a few good ideas. The quest window sounds like shit to me. Maybe if it is, you can only access if you have not played it for 3 days. But it it opens up only for a certen window, like 8 on saturdays... BLAH.


Title: Re: EQII Quest News
Post by: Trippy on August 16, 2004, 03:39:45 AM
Quote from: schild
Quote from: VIP Events stuffs from MMORPG.com
Quests
Some of the more interesting features about the quest system are the Access quests which will grant you access to the instanced areas. Then once you finish that quest you'll have access to that instanced area at whatever rate it can be accessed, be it a weekly spawn or every three days, whatever.


I like the idea of having to finish a quest to be able to access it any time during a scheduled spawn window. That should eliminate camping immediately. The number of quests makes me happy as well.


Or it could just be one of SOE's standard "let's create artificial barriers to slow down people from advancing through our content" type of thing.

Quote from: VIP Events stuffs from MMORPG.com

There are also things like, just to tease a little, some of the class quests are actually really cool. They're not your typical collect and fetch type of things. One of the Rogue quests for example, I had to sneak in, get some plans and sneak out. It wasn't about combat at all. It was really difficult, there were callouts from the guards like "What was that?" and I'd have to freeze and avoid being found. It has an almost Metal Gear Solid feel to it.


Well other than the guards reacting to noise, I'm not sure how this is any more innovative than sneaking through the Plane of Hate (assuming you were doing it solo) to steal a item from Inny's night stand for the Rogue epic.

Quote from: VIP Events stuffs from MMORPG.com

There are a lot of these quests like this that aren't what you've come to expect as your typical fair for quests. There are times where we don't want you, where you're not meant to fight your way out of things. Sometimes you'll be forced to stealth or think it through, use that grey matter for something other than holding your ears apart. If you try to fight your way through these situations you will die.


The quest designers are going to have to be careful about this. If it isn't just a simple hack and slash exercise people are going to figure out ways of "gaming" those quests to complete them quickly and with minimal risk. Kind of like how people are abusing the lenient death penalty and ease of rezzing in WoW to simplify some fetch quests.

Quote from: VIP Events stuffs from MMORPG.com

There are a LOT of quests in the game. To give you an example, my wife is playing the beta, and she got really into doing the quests. By level 9 I think she had completed like 56 quests and had 64 pending. And she was still going. The main focus of our quests is content and the item rewards.


Well at least they don't have a low limit on the number of simultaneous quests you can be doing like WoW has.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sable Blaze on August 16, 2004, 09:33:05 AM
PvP = waste of time. I won't miss it and the (additional) mendacity it promotes.

We used to abuse (I guess) the death penalty all the time in AO. You'd simply save and /terminate to get back to your bindpoint. You just had to be careful to know what terminals you were using. Useful for a variety of things, usually rushing mission for rewards WAY over your level.

The window thing...I dunno. Would have to see it in action to see how it's implemented.

Overall, I'd say this sounds interesting and something I'd look foreward to seeing. Consider my EQ2 interest more piqued than it was.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 16, 2004, 11:02:12 AM
Quote from: Morphiend
No PVP makes Morphiend go meh.

I just dont feel any need to advance in a game with no pvp. and with no pvp, advancment is all they offer.


PVP without twitch is a waste of time.

Quote
The quest window sounds like shit to me. Maybe if it is, you can only access if you have not played it for 3 days. But it it opens up only for a certen window, like 8 on saturdays... BLAH.


Does it say it only opens up at 8am on Saturdays or are you still on your WoW campaign?


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Morfiend on August 16, 2004, 12:21:13 PM
Quote from: schild
Quote from: Morphiend
No PVP makes Morphiend go meh.

I just dont feel any need to advance in a game with no pvp. and with no pvp, advancment is all they offer.


PVP without twitch is a waste of time.


I guess, but then we would have to define twitch. Dose UO count as twitch? Does DAoC?

Quote from: schild
Quote
The quest window sounds like shit to me. Maybe if it is, you can only access if you have not played it for 3 days. But it it opens up only for a certen window, like 8 on saturdays... BLAH.


Does it say it only opens up at 8am on Saturdays or are you still on your WoW campaign?
[/quote]

I dont know, that why I said "If" in several places. You where the one who stated a window of time. I was just reacting to that.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 16, 2004, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: Morphiend
Quote from: schild
Quote from: Morphiend
No PVP makes Morphiend go meh.

I just dont feel any need to advance in a game with no pvp. and with no pvp, advancment is all they offer.


PVP without twitch is a waste of time.


I guess, but then we would have to define twitch. Dose UO count as twitch? Does DAoC?


Nothing in the MMORPG world counts as twitch. UT2004 counts as twitch. Game where reflexes play a role. Soul Caliber 2 is twitch. I don't suspect any MMOG will have this in spades for about 2-3 years. Planetside _almost_ has decent twitch. Unfortunately the game is shit (unless they somehow took care of every single lag issue). And WWIIOL is just thrown out.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Shockeye on August 16, 2004, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: schild
Nothing in the MMORPG world counts as twitch. UT2004 counts as twitch. Game where reflexes play a role.


Why not just take the Unreal engine and slap some RPG shit on it and make a game of it? Oh wait... Ultima X: Odyssey got cancelled.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Riggswolfe on August 16, 2004, 12:49:25 PM
56 quests and only level 9? Sounds like Sony still wants you to struggle to advance. On another note, I love how jaded you guys pretend to be but you're eating all this EQ2 hype and practically creaming yourselves. I'll probably take a look at EQ2 but unless Sony is over the "force your players to grind so we can slow down content" shit then I probably will pass.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Arcadian Del Sol on August 16, 2004, 12:53:48 PM
Chiming in with an opinion that may be based on misinformation...

I think detaching loot camping from xp camping is a capital idea. Such a waste of resources to have people xp farming and having unwanted loot objects spawning all over the place.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 16, 2004, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: Shockeye
Quote from: schild
Nothing in the MMORPG world counts as twitch. UT2004 counts as twitch. Game where reflexes play a role.


Why not just take the Unreal engine and slap some RPG shit on it and make a game of it? Oh wait... Ultima X: Odyssey got cancelled.


Lineage 2 managed to turn the Unreal Engine into a boring piece of shit.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 16, 2004, 01:11:26 PM
Also, the people saying how many quests they did and their on level 9. Look at City of Heroes, you had done about 60 quests to get to level 9 as well. It just looks like a large number. Shouldn't the cry be 'holy shit they have content' rather than 'holy shit look at that level grind?'

I'd prefer good content and a large number of quests to a boring non-questbased grind.

Edit: In fact, level 2 in City of Heroes was 3 quests. (go do the tutorial again, those little things count as 'quests.' Level 3 was 2 full length quests. Level 4 was about 4 of them, and so on and so forth. It isn't til about level 8 or 9 where you can try and get a CoT cave crawl and get about half a level in 1 quests. But those quests took about 2 hours a piece at that level. I'd prefer 4 30minute quests.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Rasix on August 16, 2004, 01:29:20 PM
I really should do you bodily harm for making me remotely interested in EQII.  

All I've been wanting from MMORPG since CoH paved the way for this view, is completely quest based advancement.  CoH had some problems in this regard: too often you could run out of quests you could do, and front loading made some quests near impossible for a solo artist.  When I advance in these games, I need to do so with a purpose.  I need to be driving seemingly towards something else than just the level.  I don't really ever want to sit around in a MMORPG camping a mob spawn for hours at a time because it's the only available advancement mechanic.  If I level slower because of this, ohh well, I do.  I leveled slowly in EQ anyways because a lot of my time was spent traveling and doing things with friends rather than sitting in the optimal spot and pulling.  I hope these quests can be solo'd.  Getting people together to run quests(especially if the exp is non optimal) is hard unless you've got a dedicated group of friends playing with you.

One concern is the rate at which you advance into your more specialized classes.   Having to wait until level 20 until you're full bore into what you want to be seems a little lame.  But, if the advancement speed is anything like EQ, level 20 isn't bad, it's pretty much the end of "leveling is really" easy time in EQ (imo of course).  Another concern is that I'm not sure my video card, gf 4 4200 128meg card is sufficient.  I'm not even sure this thing is a directx 9 card.  I think my Barton 2500+ and 1 gig of ram would do OK, but I don't expect the game to run that well.  (not too big of a concern since I don't plan on raiding)

Really, I'm almost more interested in this game than WoW.  Something's wrong. Very wrong.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Morfiend on August 16, 2004, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: schild
Quote from: Morphiend
Quote from: schild
Quote from: Morphiend
No PVP makes Morphiend go meh.

I just dont feel any need to advance in a game with no pvp. and with no pvp, advancment is all they offer.


PVP without twitch is a waste of time.


I guess, but then we would have to define twitch. Dose UO count as twitch? Does DAoC?


Nothing in the MMORPG world counts as twitch. UT2004 counts as twitch. Game where reflexes play a role. Soul Caliber 2 is twitch. I don't suspect any MMOG will have this in spades for about 2-3 years. Planetside _almost_ has decent twitch. Unfortunately the game is shit (unless they somehow took care of every single lag issue). And WWIIOL is just thrown out.


So then by your standards, PVP in UO was a waste of time. I think there are MANY people who would disagree. But then, there are even more people who would classify MMOGs in general as a "Waste of time".

But then, I dissagree again. UO was very reflex baised in PVP. Also, so was DAoC to an extent. Once people start maxing in these level based game, and the pvp playing field is leveled, it becomes twitch based to an extent. Slower twitch than UT or Quake, but still reflex baised to an extent.

So basically I dont feel that most games fall under "non-twitch" as they all rely on reflexes to an extent. Inless they are turnbaised, then they are more of a chess match, and PVP can work in this enviroment.

Quote
PVP without twitch is a waste of time.


I disagree.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: geldonyetich on August 16, 2004, 02:30:52 PM
I don't mind if PvP has twitch or not.  However, I'm under the opinion that PvP with unrestricted population is a waste of time.   It basically boils down to a popularity contest the vast majority of conflicts.   I prefer my PvP with restrictions on population to assure relatively fair fights... but to date the only (debatably) MMORPG game I've seen do this was the Guild Wars E3 beta.   Sure, you might have some players drop from your team in an 8 on 8 (or 16 on 16) match, putting you at a disadvantage, but even then you've a hella better chance than the 3 on 1 odds you'll generally run into in an unrestricted PvP MMORPG.

I don't neccessarily agree that all MMORPGs are without twitch.   City of Heroes can get pretty dang frantic, with all the mobs flying at you and powers to fire off, bowling things over and whatnot.    Guild Wars, too, was somewhat twitchy in this manner.    The videos I've seen of Warcraft 3 in action serve to make it feel relatively twitchy.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Evil Elvis on August 16, 2004, 02:47:21 PM
Quote from: schild
Quote from: Morphiend
Quote from: schild
Quote from: Morphiend
No PVP makes Morphiend go meh.

I just dont feel any need to advance in a game with no pvp. and with no pvp, advancment is all they offer.


PVP without twitch is a waste of time.


I guess, but then we would have to define twitch. Dose UO count as twitch? Does DAoC?


Nothing in the MMORPG world counts as twitch.


Asheron's Call.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 16, 2004, 02:48:21 PM
Can you dodge blaster shots? No? There is no twitch in CoH unless you are putzing around with super jump.

As for pvp in UO.

I've said this before and I'll say it a thousand times over - UO happened at the right time. It won't happen again. Longing for the days of yesteryear is pointless. Technology has advanced to the point (with Planetside as, at least, proof of concept) that you are either diablo/ffxi/eq style PvE or you are fps twitch.

With the makers of EQ deciding not to add PVP at all, I feel they are doing the right thing.

As for Blizzard, once again, I expect zero innovation and still haven't heard of any in WoW. I can confidently skip the game knowing that as far as MMORPG's go I am looking for evolution (not revolution). As opposed to the 'refinement' that WoW brings to the table.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: geldonyetich on August 16, 2004, 02:53:24 PM
Well, if you count to-hit rolls determining if you hit or miss as non-twitch, then I could definately see how every MMORPG fits such a definition.

Personally, I count highly spastic rapid gameplay in need of constant interaction as twitch.   Sandwich combat would be the polar opposite.   Something like FFXI, which is hardly spastic but quite in need of interaction to succeed, is somewhere in the middle.   (Probably about 3/4ths in the direction of Sandwich levels, but not all the way there.)


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Riggswolfe on August 16, 2004, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: schild

As for Blizzard, once again, I expect zero innovation and still haven't heard of any in WoW. I can confidently skip the game knowing that as far as MMORPG's go I am looking for evolution (not revolution). As opposed to the 'refinement' that WoW brings to the table.


What in EQ2 is evolution? Don't get me wrong, there is a good chance I'll play both games at this point, but I fail to see where EQ2 is anything but a graphics upgrade of EQ with a few tweaks to gameplay. Basically, the same thing as WoW but with a different mindset in some areas.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: SurfD on August 16, 2004, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: Riggswolfe
56 quests and only level 9? Sounds like Sony still wants you to struggle to advance. On another note, I love how jaded you guys pretend to be but you're eating all this EQ2 hype and practically creaming yourselves. I'll probably take a look at EQ2 but unless Sony is over the "force your players to grind so we can slow down content" shit then I probably will pass.


Now, call me crazy, but would your rather

 struggle through 56 quests to get to level 9, all the while never really realizing exactly how long that took because the content and story and interaction from the quest sat as a barrier between you and the "grind"

or

sit at a spawn point and gank xxxxx number of foozles to get to level 9, all the while pulling your hair out from the sheer mind numbing boredom of "hit-attack-button-X-and-wait-for-creature-to-die-and-then-repeat"?

Even if it takes me 20% longer to get to level 9, I guarantee you that I would still prefer that first option every time, and I still wont notice that it actually took 20% longer.

As Rasix said, CoH is almost perfect, in that it can be purely quest driven.  Sure, they have the occasional lack of quests from your contacts to do, but then, you could always tag along on someoen elses quests.  And the above mentioned reason is why I STILL prefer grouping in small teams to run doors in CoH to grouping with large teams to street hunt in XXX hazard zone, even if Street Hunting DOES net me 20% more exp for my time.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sable Blaze on August 16, 2004, 11:00:01 PM
EQ2 is more of an evolution of EQOA. It really doesn't have that much to do with EQlive that I can see.

I see quest driven content as a good thing. I see no PvP as a very good thing. So far, I like what I see. Best of all, it's not on a console.

I'm all set to try this one out. It's the only way to be sure...


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Riggswolfe on August 17, 2004, 02:38:00 AM
As I said I'll try it I just don't have alot of faith in Sony.

Time will tell.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: El Gallo on August 17, 2004, 09:01:29 AM
I am not really sure why people get off so much of quest-driven advancement.  Consider these two situations:

A: I spend 2 hours killing 100 foozits.

B: I spend 30 seconds talking to an NPC, who tells me to kill 100 foozits because Jesus told him so.  I then spend 2 hours killing 100 foozits.  I then spend 30 seconds talking to the NPC who says "thanks for killing foozits in the name of the Lord, El Gallo."

They just don't seem much different to me.  The key question for me is whether or not killing 100 foozits is entertaining.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: stray on August 17, 2004, 09:07:55 AM
It's killing foozits within some kind of context that makes it better (but I'll admit, "context" i.e. quest content, hasn't been all that spectacular or imaginative to make a real difference as of yet).


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: El Gallo on August 17, 2004, 09:16:46 AM
I suppose.  It also breaks the foozit killing into smaller chunks perhaps.  Still, it is much more important for me that the foozit killing itself be entertaining.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: CassandraR on August 17, 2004, 09:38:38 AM
Well killing foozles to make your way down into a cavern to recover the Lost Dixie Cup of Bigness is abit more fun then just killing them to get experience. Then you at least have a goal besides leveling. Especially if you need the Dixie Cup to access the Abandon Beer Shed or something.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sable Blaze on August 17, 2004, 09:50:50 AM
Admittedly, the "go kill 35 whatthehellevers" quest approach is no big thrill. Still, that's the lowest common denominator quest-wise. They don't have to be like this.

Lets take CoH, for example. I normally avoid the "kill 35, yadda, yadda, yadda" quests unless absolutely nothing else is available and I need to move that contact along. However, they do sometimes lead into other things. Last night I"m working on DE missions and one starts off like this.

Before I know it, I'm into alternative dimensions, viral plagues, and I'm getting ambushed by 5th Column right and left (still haven't figured out why nazis are in on this). I'm pretty interested at this point--if for no other reason than why I'm getting ambushed by what seems to be the entire Das Reich division outside of routine DE door missions in Perez Park, of all places.

Anyway, if they make the quests in moderately interesting, it does add a lot to the game...or grind, if you must think of it that way.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: eldaec on August 17, 2004, 09:53:01 AM
Quote from: schild
PVP without twitch is a waste of time.


I (http://www.firaxis.com/smac/game.cfm) disagree (http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/03/18/bunten/) with (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm) you (http://www.princeton.edu/~jedwards/cif/intro.html) vigorously (http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/gameId,180/).

It's fair to say PvP has rarely been really nailed in a non-twitch MMOG setting. But nonsense to say pvp depends on twitch.

SWG economics is full unrestricted pvp. No twitch there.

People just need to look beyond single avatar combat (which is generally set up to run too quick, and contains insufficient decision points), both designers and players, to find their mmog non-twitch pvp.

If you want a pvp non-twitch MMOG, why couldn't one be written that slows down combat, or even makes it turn based, but still plays as good as the pvp games I linked to above?

I still want to play a Warhammer Fantasy Battle (or 40k, I'm not fussy) MMOG, where I control a collection of units, rather than a single character, and team up with other commanders to form an army/group before fighting other armies in a Total War type situation.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: daveNYC on August 17, 2004, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: eldaec
SWG economics is full unrestricted pvp. No twitch there.

I disagree with your broad definition of PvP.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: stray on August 17, 2004, 10:33:52 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's twitch that's neccesarily important, but being able to use a wide variety of tactics (twitch is only one way to do it). Besides various TBS or economic games like what eldaec mentioned, I think PvP can be pretty fun with current MMO combat systems as long as you're given enough options to play and improvise with (Shadowbane for example). It's all about how much freedom of decision making you have (I think).

Not to say I don't want twitch though.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: kaid on August 17, 2004, 10:48:44 AM
I don't think you need to have twitch to have fun pvp but one sure fire killer of PVP is levels.

I just cannot see a level based mmrpg pvp appealing to more than a small minority. As shadowbane found some folks will play 2 crush and they will indeed crush. Those folks however are the minoirty where everybody else is the crushees. Nobody pays good money every month to be repeatedly crushed if there is no real hope that if level 50 jackass jumps my level 30 butt of survival.

In daoc this has been a constant hurdel if you let everybody mix it up together in pvp the lower level people are just RP fodder and cannot really contribute. They eventually had to make level limited battlegrounds that guess what are very popular. Why? Because you know that you at least have  a good chance with skill and knowledge of beating somebody who you KNOW is within a range you can effect.

UO pvp worked pretty well because there was not the level based cliff to overcome.

Look at wow they are introducing pvp and it already is having big issues with high level folks just abusing the low level folks. This may be a hoot for the high level folks but is that game play going to make the lower level folks want to stay on that server or go to a non pvp one. Being helpless is not fun and level based RPG have HUGE issues with this.


Kaid


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sky on August 17, 2004, 11:16:05 AM
Quote
Especially if you need the Dixie Cup to access the Abandon Beer Shed or something.

NOW WE'RE TALKING! Rednecks Online, combining shotgun style pvp, auto racing, demolition derbies, deer hunting, beer guzzling...there's a gateway to entice the walmart crowd into the genre!

Or they could make another game with elves, eh?


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Shockeye on August 17, 2004, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: Sky
NOW WE'RE TALKING! Rednecks Online, combining shotgun style pvp, auto racing, demolition derbies, deer hunting, beer guzzling...there's a gateway to entice the walmart crowd into the genre!


Don't forget about the possums!


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Furiously on August 17, 2004, 12:21:16 PM
Quote from: Sky
Quote
Especially if you need the Dixie Cup to access the Abandon Beer Shed or something.

NOW WE'RE TALKING! Rednecks Online, combining shotgun style pvp, auto racing, demolition derbies, deer hunting, beer guzzling...there's a gateway to entice the walmart crowd into the genre!

Or they could make another game with elves, eh?


Rednecks online.... Sky you need to start bottling that stuff... Straight from the Ozark Mts! I think this needs a random link too....I see a lot of potential for fun. Someone really is missing the boat on Deerhunter online though...

(http://www.kygo.com/pageImages/Redneck.jpg)


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sky on August 17, 2004, 02:02:36 PM
Deerhunter online would only be one facet. You could get endorsements from NASCAR and Genny Cream Ale or Old Milwaukee. Don't forget bass fishing, sponsored by Zebco and Walmart!

Are you listening, Raph?! It's a whole virtual backwater state, trailer park housing for players, a virtual welfare state, it's the logical next step! Customize your avatar with everything from safety orange vests to treebark camo to the ubiquitous wifebeater. Will you go with the mullet or possibly the vaunted skullet?

"Git off mah propty!"


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sky on August 17, 2004, 02:03:29 PM
Total disclosure: I grew up a redneck :)


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Furiously on August 17, 2004, 02:43:16 PM
Don't forget being able to raise your own virtual pitbull for weekly fights...


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: daveNYC on August 17, 2004, 03:00:22 PM
Can I have my own meth lab?


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: HaemishM on August 17, 2004, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: Sky
Quote
Especially if you need the Dixie Cup to access the Abandon Beer Shed or something.

NOW WE'RE TALKING! Rednecks Online, combining shotgun style pvp, auto racing, demolition derbies, deer hunting, beer guzzling...there's a gateway to entice the walmart crowd into the genre!

Or they could make another game with elves, eh?


You forgot the wife-beating contests and the crafting system involving tinkering on a Camaro on blocks in the front yard to see how tall the grass can grow around it.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sky on August 17, 2004, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: daveNYC
Can I have my own meth lab?

Sorry, that's Bikers & Bitches Online. But you can race lawn tractors!
Quote
Don't forget being able to raise your own virtual pitbull for weekly fights...

Yes, you can have a variety of pets, including bulldogs, pitbulls, ferrets, and basset hounds. Most pets can be trained to carry out basic functions such as 'fechme abeer' and 'sic em'.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: SirBruce on August 17, 2004, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: Sky
Total disclosure: I grew up a redneck :)


So did I.  Ahhh, the joys of picking up hay bail in 100 degree heat in the summer and cutting the ice over frozen ponds with an axe in 20 degree below winters.  (That's Fahrenheit for all you metric folks.)

Bruce


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: jpark on August 17, 2004, 10:19:50 PM
Maybe this is older news now, but these comments on trade skills in EQ2 struck me:

"It's also an active process, almost like combat. As your character hammers away at the forge, sparks flying, a progress bar shows how your item is coming along. Although it's not implemented yet, random events will eventually happen requiring your attention, as well as giving you the opportunity to drastically improve (or totally ruin!) your item. "

from http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/everquest-ii/536998p2.html


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Trippy on August 17, 2004, 10:29:59 PM
Quote from: jpark
"It's also an active process, almost like combat. As your character hammers away at the forge, sparks flying, a progress bar shows how your item is coming along. Although it's not implemented yet, random events will eventually happen requiring your attention, as well as giving you the opportunity to drastically improve (or totally ruin!) your item. "


Cynical translation:

Tradeskills in EQ II are even more mind-numbingly dull than in EQ that we've had to put in things to try and prevent macroers.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 17, 2004, 10:37:25 PM
That's not cynical so much as uninformed. The events are chances to make your item better - essentially a gambling system. I'd prefer that to people finding a great ore in SWG and making 1000 of the best Sonic Blaster or whatever and cornering the market.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: eldaec on August 18, 2004, 02:40:28 AM
Quote from: jpark
Maybe this is older news now, but these comments on trade skills in EQ2 struck me:

"It's also an active process, almost like combat. As your character hammers away at the forge, sparks flying, a progress bar shows how your item is coming along. Although it's not implemented yet, random events will eventually happen requiring your attention, as well as giving you the opportunity to drastically improve (or totally ruin!) your item. "

from http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/everquest-ii/536998p2.html


These are almost exactly the same words the SWG team used to add 'features' to stop afk macro sample-mining.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Trippy on August 18, 2004, 02:53:15 AM
Quote from: schild
That's not cynical so much as uninformed. The events are chances to make your item better - essentially a gambling system.


Notice the "or totally ruin!" in parens. That's what I mean by stopping macroing. It's not just a chance to improve an item. If you aren't around when the random event pops I'm assuming the default is for it to fail, and badly (i.e. all components lost or whatever).


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sky on August 18, 2004, 08:51:14 AM
Ahh, the plight of the afk macroer! Puh-leese! Why would game developers want to encourage that kind of crap?


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: personman on August 18, 2004, 09:34:20 AM
Quote from: eldaec
These are almost exactly the same words the SWG team used to add 'features' to stop afk macro sample-mining.


Which had no impact whatsoever.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: El Gallo on August 18, 2004, 09:47:51 AM
I can't wait until I get to punch the monkey to make a broadsword of roxxorage.  Immersive.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: HaemishM on August 18, 2004, 10:43:07 AM
Punch the monkey games would be an improvement over DAoC's tradeskills and certainly over EQ's tradeskills.

More interactivity in trade skills plzkthx, less mindless making of 3 bazillion USELESS FUCKING WIDGETS.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: kaid on August 18, 2004, 11:01:00 AM
The other advantage to the way eq2 is doing tradeskills is if it takes roughly the same time to make a newbie sword going through the mini game as a high end one. This helps to keep a couple uber crafters from just owning the whole market spectrum. Novice smiths would be where novices go to buy their gear as unless a high end smith is your good buddy it likely isn't worth their time to bottom feed.

Also actually having to give input during the crafting process should make it far more difficult to macro tradeskills which is what really killed me in SWG. It is very disheartening to hear people reach master droid engineer in 6 hours due to their uber macro when it took me 4 weeks to do it before anybody knew how to set those macros up. Macroing can completly devalue the skill of a real dedicated at the keyboard crafter.


Kaid


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: MrHat on August 18, 2004, 05:06:03 PM
Quote from: El Gallo
I can't wait until I get to punch the monkey to make a braodsword of roxxorage.  Immersive.


hahaha.

punch the monkey.

Love it.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: schild on August 18, 2004, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
More interactivity in trade skills plzkthx, less mindless making of 3 bazillion USELESS FUCKING WIDGETS.


My favorite crafted item in any MMO ever was the neomidian birdcage in SWG. Served no fucking purpose. I searched and searched for a neomidian bird while I had CH skills in SWG and didn't find one. It was a useless item, not the easiest to make and wasn't even great furniture as it sat on the ground instead of a pole.

So yes, less widgets, more interactivity, and less shit - kthx.


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: El Gallo on August 18, 2004, 11:38:52 PM
sucks when your misspellings get quoted~


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Soukyan on August 19, 2004, 07:12:05 AM
Quote from: Sky
Ahh, the plight of the afk macroer! Puh-leese! Why would game developers want to encourage that kind of crap?


Because they can't seem to design an interactive and fun crafting system?


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: stray on August 19, 2004, 07:59:36 AM
What would be a more fun and interactive crafting system?


Title: EQII Quest News
Post by: Sky on August 19, 2004, 08:53:06 AM
Well, one could always NOT PLAY games that are repetetive and boring, instead of macroing them :)

But folks still go ahead and keep paying these companies for that crap.