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f13.net General Forums => PlanetSide => Topic started by: bhodi on February 20, 2007, 10:53:28 AM



Title: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: bhodi on February 20, 2007, 10:53:28 AM
Because the jackhammer is where it's at, phoenixes are way too fun, their zerg is actually organized, and with NC we can actually get a cavern lock (letting us play with the AT stuff.)

Sorry for all you high BR vanu types, I really wanted to like them, but they just get rolled over in infantry AA, long range, short range, tank battles, corridors, siege warfare, everything. I'm so frustrated because I wanted to like them, but for everything they can do well, another side can do better. I'm tired of getting curb stomped in anything except MAX AA.

See you on Emerald/New Conglomerate -- F13NoobHammer is my name.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Nebu on February 20, 2007, 10:59:03 AM
Is everyone rerolling?


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: bhodi on February 20, 2007, 10:59:51 AM
I believe so. We had 7 people on last night as NC. It's enough of a difference in that I'm willing to let my BR12 go.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Nebu on February 20, 2007, 11:00:49 AM
I'll reroll then when I can.  I haven't been on much due to 15h work days.  I need to blow stuff up!


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Calandryll on February 20, 2007, 11:42:38 AM
I am all for this.

I think I have an NC character on Emerald already, not very high level, maybe BR 7 or so. I'll either reroll or use that character.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Merusk on February 20, 2007, 11:51:17 AM
Yar..

When I get home I'll delete Merusk and reroll him as NC. Barring being able to do that, I'll rename as F13Merusk or somesuch.    I felt the frustration from y'all last night and should have seen this coming.  :-D


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Furiously on February 20, 2007, 12:09:18 PM
Sure we don't want to get Terran?


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Der Helm on February 20, 2007, 12:54:14 PM
Sure we don't want to get Terran?
Maybe in a week or so ...

F13Helm is now a proud member of emerald/NC


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: bhodi on February 20, 2007, 12:54:27 PM
I wanted the chaingun but I was voted down; I figure since their jackhammer is actually good, I'll keep the spec and loot chainguns and locker them. When I was vanu, I saw no reason to waste 4 spec points on heavy weapons.

I really, really like the cam-guided rockets.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Furiously on February 20, 2007, 01:30:47 PM
Jackhammer takes a little more finesse then the MCG. But meh. It's more about zee googles.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Calandryll on February 20, 2007, 01:49:28 PM
I played NC on the other server to BR20. I think I am one of the few NC players that never liked the jackhammer. Too short range. It's certainly better than the Lasher, but the chaingun is FAR superior - especially after the nerfed the jackhammer triple-shot way back. I like the gauss rifle though.

The other night, I actually had a TR player tell me that playing TR is the hardest of the three sides. Needless to say, I LOLed.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Furiously on February 20, 2007, 01:52:04 PM
I totally agree about the range - it's more of a rush next to someone and shoot!


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Surlyboi on February 20, 2007, 02:00:36 PM
As a life-long smurf, I can say I hate the noobhammer too, no range and since the nerf, useless in anything other than a fist fight.

TR, hard? It is to laugh.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: shiznitz on February 20, 2007, 02:32:14 PM
I played NC on the other server to BR20. I think I am one of the few NC players that never liked the jackhammer. Too short range. It's certainly better than the Lasher, but the chaingun is FAR superior - especially after the nerfed the jackhammer triple-shot way back. I like the gauss rifle though.

The other night, I actually had a TR player tell me that playing TR is the hardest of the three sides. Needless to say, I LOLed.

It really comes down to what fits you best. I do much better with the MCG K/D-wise, but I have NC friends who cannot kill anything with it. It is weird because they both require the same tactic - close NOW! - to be successful. The JH is just a little less forgiving in the accuracy for me. Nothing beats the triple shot in the back, though. Man I love that, rare as it is. For the MCG, I love walking into an enemy AMS bubble and just spraying.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Calandryll on February 20, 2007, 02:57:59 PM
Yea, some people are really good with different weapons, but I still find that the chaingun is the easiest. Like the other night, the TR guy who I talked to jumped from his Mosq into a VR base. After killing three people in the air terminal room, he got inside at the top of the stairs. In addition to killing me, he also got at least 6 other additional kills before the TR got him, by simply waiting at the top of the stairs in 3rd person (another thing they should really fix) waiting for someone to come up the stairs and then poping out and blowing them away. Even if you had a jackhammer, before you got close you'd pretty much be dead. And again, he was by himself, in a base that wasn't even being attacked by other TR.

I've seen TR players do this a bunch of times since I started playing and they always have chainguns - I've never seen VR or NC do it, at least not successfully.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Jimbo on February 20, 2007, 02:59:05 PM
They may be bitching about how we field vehicles, NC and VS have it easy, TR allways needs more people to be effective.  Plus the NC usually have the 4th empire when I was playing before (seems everyone wants to be a smurf).  To crew most of the vehicles takes 1-2 more to bring out the best of its ability, i.e. TR needs 3 people in a MBT to get the max benefit, 5 in the raider (instead of 3), 3 in the marauder pickup truck (instead of 2).  I mean they are effective, but hell even in an outfit I would have to spam for gunner slots when I was driving my tank or raider or truck.  Plus TR loves to footzerg, since the MCG is so nice, we just want to get up close and personal.

I'll come be a smurf, at least the tank is better handling that the magrider (I hate that wonky control of the hovercraft) and has more armor.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Lantyssa on February 20, 2007, 02:59:28 PM
Oh thank the gods of Planetside!  Now I can play with y'all and my roomie.  Still Lantyssa with the NC.  I'm in the Fighting 27th, if anyone is interested in joining an existing squad versus starting one.

Chainguns suck.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Sky on February 20, 2007, 03:01:02 PM
Sure, I have a Vanu guy and a TR guy, so you mothers choose NC :P.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Evangolis on February 20, 2007, 05:36:56 PM
I played a little TR last night, and it is harder.  Their CR5s are much stoopider than Vanu, which I wouldn't have thought possible.  If your team is suffering bad morale, verbal abuse will bring them right out of that, right?


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Surlyboi on February 20, 2007, 06:20:02 PM
I played a little TR last night, and it is harder.  Their CR5s are much stoopider than Vanu, which I wouldn't have thought possible.  If your team is suffering bad morale, verbal abuse will bring them right out of that, right?

Well, granted, we were spanking you pretty hard last night.  :-D

That said, I find most of the shit talking smacktards do tend to be TR. I've gotten more hate tells from them than I ever got from VS. Mostly the VS will send a "GF" OR "Shit, where are you?" but none of the "Oh, you killed me, now I have to take your BFR away" or "Fight with something other than that newb rocket".


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Strazos on February 20, 2007, 09:11:10 PM
I mainly play with MAXs and Vehicles. Since all the flight vehicles are the same, that leaves differences (for me) between Tanks and MAXs.

Vanguard vs Magrider: The Vanguard has a LOT more armor, and a more powerful main cannon. Also, the gunner controls both weapons, though this is a double-edged sword as a Mag can shoot both weapons at once, while a Vanguard cannot. However, at least the Vanguard turret can aim down somewhat, compared to the Vanu guns that have limited movement. Also, the Mags main advantage, its hover and strafe capabilities, are mostly moot when you are riding with a decent driver and/or gunner. Winner: Vanguard, NC.

MAXs: The main difference between the MAXs of the two factions is their special abilities; the Vanu have jump jets, while the NC have personal shields (which deactivate when firing, and take about a second to reactivate after ceasing fire). Now, I like having jump jets - they're very useful, allowed me to get into/out of places I would not be able to without the jump jets. Also, jump jetting in a fight can really screw up an opposing player (if they're idiots). BUT, rarely do the jets allow me to survive a fight that the NC shield does on a consistent basis !! It's like a personal "Oh Shit" button, and is a very powerful tool when used tactically. I can actually assault towers and tubes and not die. It basically turns the MAX capacitor into a third armor/HP bar, which regenerates on its own. Jump Jets are pretty cool, the I believe the NC shield is simply more useful in more situations. Winner: NC.

Anti-Infantry: The Vanu type is mainly a Pulsar on steroids, while the NC's is a Jackhammer....sort of, kind of, but not exactly. The Vanu type has the ability to switch between antipersonnel and AP rounds on the fly, and is decently accurate, even at long range. The NC Scattercannon fires pellets like a shotgun. The gun has an adjustable choke mechanism, so that you can adjust the spread for shots at close, medium, and long range. Though, the tighter the choke, the longer the pause between shots, with the open choke for close range shooting the quickest. The scattercannon is accurate enough at close range, though the accuracy suffers greatly at increased ranges. I personally like the mechanism of choosing the choke type for the range you are shooting, as it makes ALL the difference as to if you are going to do any damage beyond 30m or so. Used correctly, the NC MAX of this type is more powerful than the Vanu type at close ranges, though the NC type requires more skill and judgement on the part of the player. Winner: Push.

Anti-Armor: The Vanu type fires plasma charges that have a small amount of splash damage, and also a bit of burn damage. Usable against infantry and air, but decidedly not ideal. The NC configuration fires HE rounds, with a somewhat larger area of effect than the Vanu plasma, but no burn damage. The NC unit fires more quickly, and has a larger clip, but the Vanu is probably slightly more accurate at extreme ranges, and appears to do somewhat more damage. This works out (for me) to mean that while the NC unit is less powerful than the Vanu variant, at close ranges, I still fare better against infantry with the NC unit, and I'm at least still even against opposing Vanu MAXs. Winner: Push - Vanu vs armor, NC vs Infantry, Air.

Anti-Air: Both types fire lock-on type projectiles, but while the Vanu unit locks faster (re: Instantly), the NC type takes longer to lock but supposedly the projectiles will track after the lock without keeping the reticle over the target (I have yet to see this). In practice, I found the Vanu Starfire configuration to be much superior to the NC Sparrow loadout; it locks more quickly, fire projectiles that travel faster, and does more damage than the NC unit. Winner: Vanu.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: bhodi on February 21, 2007, 12:13:40 AM
Here's my strategy writeup for the NC. You may notice a trend.

Target:                   Use:
------------------------------------------------------
Infantry, Point Blank:    Jackhammer
Infantry, Close Range:    Jackhammer
Infantry, Medium Range:   Jackhammer with Surge
Infantry, Long Range:     Hide behind a rock
Infiltrators:             Jackhammer with extreme prejudice
MAXes:                    Jackhammer with AP shells
Tanks:                    Jackhammer with AP shells
BFRs:                     Jackhammer with AP shells
Low Flying Aircraft:      Jackhammer with AP shells
Bombers:                  Hide inside a building
Base turrets:             Jackhammer with AP shells
Spitfure Turrets:         Jammer grendade then Jackhammer
Giant Enemy Crabs:        Attack the weak spot (with Jackhammer) for massive damage.
Teammates in MAX:         Jackhammer with AP shells
Teammates:                Jackhammer


In summary: Vanu versus NC. Winner: Jackhammer.
If we ever do TR, I'll throw a writeup for them. I'll give you a hint: s/Jackhammer/MCG/g


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Strazos on February 21, 2007, 05:02:07 AM
I can confirm that data, as much testing went into the effort.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Furiously on February 21, 2007, 07:53:13 AM
I'm not seeing the phoenix listed anywhere there...


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: bhodi on February 21, 2007, 08:59:29 AM
That's because I can't seem to get a kill with it. I can peck people to death, I get lots of hits, but never can seem to get the final blow.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: gojira on February 21, 2007, 09:28:23 AM
You really love the jackhammer.

Here's my strategy writeup for the NC. You may notice a trend.

Target:                   Use:
------------------------------------------------------
Infantry, Point Blank:    Jackhammer
Infantry, Close Range:    Jackhammer
Infantry, Medium Range:   Jackhammer with Surge
Infantry, Long Range:     Hide behind a rock
Infiltrators:             Jackhammer with extreme prejudice
MAXes:                    Jackhammer with AP shells
Tanks:                    Jackhammer with AP shells
BFRs:                     Jackhammer with AP shells
Low Flying Aircraft:      Jackhammer with AP shells
Bombers:                  Hide inside a building
Base turrets:             Jackhammer with AP shells
Spitfure Turrets:         Jammer grendade then Jackhammer
Giant Enemy Crabs:        Attack the weak spot (with Jackhammer) for massive damage.
Teammates in MAX:         Jackhammer with AP shells
Teammates:                Jackhammer


In summary: Vanu versus NC. Winner: Jackhammer.
If we ever do TR, I'll throw a writeup for them. I'll give you a hint: s/Jackhammer/MCG/g


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: gojira on February 21, 2007, 09:31:17 AM

They should rename the "phoenix" to "cheese" it is way to easy to get a hit with it.  But fun.

I'm not seeing the phoenix listed anywhere there...


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Stephen Zepp on February 21, 2007, 10:10:44 AM
I'm all for the swap for what it's worth, but I really want to say one thing:

"The grass is always greener..."

What will happen as NC is that you will start running into Vanu that know how to properly use range (no insult, but most of the complaints about vanu lasher viability have also included comments about "mcg/jh is so much better at close range"--to which I say exactly!).

I've played all sides to at least BR 15, with a TR guy at BR 22 and an NC guy at BR 25/CR3. I personally settled on NC for personal play style (I LOVE the scatmax), but I will tell you right now, I will log off before attempting to invade a well populated Interlink facility defended by vanu :P

Just wait untli you start trying to take down a defended back door, or front door even, with vanu that understand proper range utilization...you won't -believe- how quickly you die ;)

BTW, for the record:

JH > MCG at immediate range
MGC > JH at close range
Lasher > all at medium range


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Calandryll on February 21, 2007, 11:46:55 AM
I dunno, I played NC to BR 20 and always preferred fighting Vanu to TR. I played the other two sides as well and overall found the Vanu to be underpowered in general, in both infantry and armor situations. 

From my experience as an NC player, taking a Vanu held base/tower usually took 25% less time (sometimes half as long) as taking a TR base/tower. Between chainguns and locked down anti-infantry MAXs, the TR are just better suited for the close/medium range fighting required to take a base/tower. Part of it is numbers, but most of it is the weapons imo. Most tower/base fighting is done at close to extreme close range.. When I played NC and had my jackhammer cert, i had a locker full of chainguns that I'd use whenever I got the chance. It's an effective weapon in virtually any indoor situation. The other two weapons aren't as versatile.

So I think the grass IS greener in NC and TR land, or at the very least, a lot less purple!


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Lantyssa on February 21, 2007, 02:40:33 PM
All this Jackhammer love.  I took out a mosquito with a Sweeper and non-AP rounds yersterday!

(I don't think he noticed me bailing out of the tank as he destroyed it and went AFK...)


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Strazos on February 21, 2007, 02:58:00 PM
I've always agreed that the Lasher is a viable weapon when used properly.

I've only seen people utilize the proper Lasher spam all of twice since I have been playing.




Totally unrelated, but I love when anti-infantry TR MAXs try to lock down and fire on me as I circle strafe them in a ScatterMAX. Lock down, fire, fail to turn, unlock, repeat until I kill them.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Sky on February 21, 2007, 03:26:21 PM
Hmm. I guess maybe transferring my PS folder to my new computer and just downloading the launchpad for it wasn't such a good idea. I made an NC (Caviglia, my Werner NC name Jackspammer was taken) and I had no weapon icons. A few showed up in the equipment terminal, but I get garbage for a couple and none for most in the HUD.

Between this and possibly having to RMA my gpu...blah. Lots'o'downtime.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Strazos on February 21, 2007, 04:41:04 PM
If it's any consolation to you, Jackspammer on Emerald is actually a personal friend of mine and will be playing with us at times. So at least you can yell at the guy in Vent for stealing your name.  :evil:


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Furiously on February 23, 2007, 11:22:47 AM
Is there a good guide anywhere for using a Jackhammer. I'm sure I'm not using it right.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Merusk on February 23, 2007, 11:28:21 AM
Is there a good guide anywhere for using a Jackhammer. I'm sure I'm not using it right.

1) Run up to player in hallway
2) Stick Jackhammer near chest
3) tri-fire
4) repeat

It's a really horrible outdoor weapon.  Use of it anywhere but in corridors is pointless because the shots spread-out so much after a few yards from the barrel.  Yet another reason the TR MCG is fucked, because it's so rapid fire and has a rifle-type spread.  I've been chewed-up on top of towers by 2 guys using MCGs while I try to snipe them.


Title: Re: BAT COUNRY -- VANU -> NC
Post by: Stephen Zepp on February 23, 2007, 12:06:19 PM
Is there a good guide anywhere for using a Jackhammer. I'm sure I'm not using it right.

1) Run up to player in hallway
2) Stick Jackhammer near chest
3) tri-fire
4) repeat

It's a really horrible outdoor weapon.  Use of it anywhere but in corridors is pointless because the shots spread-out so much after a few yards from the barrel.  Yet another reason the TR MCG is fucked, because it's so rapid fire and has a rifle-type spread.  I've been chewed-up on top of towers by 2 guys using MCGs while I try to snipe them.

An even better technique is to learn to use third person and the added view it gives.

Keep in mind that the JH is designed to flat out be the best weapon at contact range. Yes, it blows the MCG out of the water---if you can get to contact range.

The technique here (and it's only useful with bend-y areas such as stairs, indoor areas with corners, etc) is :

--go to third person, and face a wall so that as your opponent closes, he doesn't know you are there. stairs are pretty perfect for this, although you have to move far enough away from the approach so that they don't see part of you
--wait until they are literally in contact range, then swap to first person
--unload a triple shot, and go past them (jump over, whatever)
--turn 180 and unload again. Dead enemy (unless they are -amazingly- quick with both a personal shield and health kits)

the alternate strategy, and one that works outdoors in medium/short contact range is the use of the surge implant (which has been nerfed from the original tactic, but still works if you know the timing)

--be at medium++ range: you have to learn how long surge lasts, and how far it takes you so that when surge is pressed, you close, and surge wears off, you are at contact range
--surge, close, unload when surge wears off.
--go past, spin, triple shot again.


I feel like I keep beating the dead horse--but know your weapons, and know your ranges. Go to the Viritual Training area and practice ranges, and learn when you get the most damage per clip/fire rate. Most importantly, learn what weapons your enemy commonly uses, and know the most effective ranges for -each-, and how to best prosecute a fight to the kill.