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Title: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: UD_Delt on August 21, 2006, 07:28:34 AM Quote *** Tradeskill Writs *** - Artisans rejoice! New Tradeskill work orders have been added to the game. - You can begin obtaining writs when you've reached the subclass level (20). - Please see a local Work Order Foreman to get yours. Work orders, not cash money. Well, technically you do get rewarded for doing them, but yo... - Rewards include faction, status, and coin. Exiles will not earn faction, however. - NOTE to Testers: The timers, faction, status, and coin are not yet final. *** Experience Changes *** - While we feel that solo quests can be quite rewarding, we were not satisfied with the experience from solo combat alone, especially for those characters who prefer to target slightly lower creatures. Therefore, we have increased the experience earned in the following situations: * Non-Heroic creature experience has been increased slightly. * Experience for blue con creatures has been increased slightly. * Experience for green con creatures has been increased significantly. - In addition, we also wanted to increase the reward for defeating the nastier foes you meet during raids. Therefore, epic creature experience has been increased significantly. *** The Hand of the Gods *** - The influence of the gods continues to grow stronger on Norrath as the prophets of War and Tranquility call upon the faithful for assistance. - Prove your mettle to the followers of War by speaking with Tychus Zeksworn in Zek, the Orcish Wastes. - Show your penchant for peace by contacting Sensei Makoto Shoda in Zek, the Orcish Wastes. *** Gameplay *** - Mounts can now be toggled off by using the whistle or summoning object again while the mount is active. - You can no longer set your public access level to friend or higher. Visitor is the new highest default setting. Note that this only applies to the default setting for your house--you can still set specific friends to be trustees to your heart's content. - In order to prevent lost items and coin, you cannot zone while a consignment transaction is in progress. - You will no longer get an error message if you change targets while harvesting. - It should now take a bit longer to drown after you run out of breath. *** Player-versus-Player *** - When in passive mode, pets will no longer attack aggressors unless they are directly attacked themselves. *** Quests *** - In "Tombs of Night: A Search for Answers", the scout that spawns when Lureclaw and Gulp are killed will now run to the shore prior to dying so the rock sample doesn’t find its way into geometry. - Residents of Beggar's Court who had completed the "Big Trouble..." quest and stopped talking to Durio Dexus should now be offered his next quest after speaking to him. *** Items *** - The distance that Tarton's Wheel will teleport its user has been shortened. This should make the teleport effect a bit more reliable for its wielders. - The Sergeant's Scimitar should now work properly for those who can wield it. *** Zones and Population *** - Harla Dar's lockout timer should again work properly. - The Seraph of the Stags will no longer attack the other creatures around it. - Some monster damage types should more closely match their attacks (e.g. badgers pierce because they bite you). *** Combat *** - Maximum power pool increases bonuses have been adjusted to be more consistent throughout level progression. This will increase the amount of maximum power bonuses below level 60, and lower it above 60. - Weaker tier spells will no longer be able to overwrite stronger tier spells. - The double attack skill will no longer work with ranged weapons. - The following spells can now be cast while feared: * Bruiser: Indomitable Will * Bruiser: Close Mind * Defiler: Voice of the Ancestors * Inquisitor: Fervent Focus * Monk: Will of the Void * Potion: Freedom of Action Achievements: - Rogue: Torporous Strike: Critical reduction changed to casting and recovery speed reduction. - Predator: Placating Strike: Increased melee damage and hate reduction effectiveness. - Predator: Toxic Expertise: Modified examine information to indicate it affects spell triggers and not combat arts. Coercer changes: - Empathic Link: Removed restriction from hate decrease so that it can affect fighters as well. Paladin changes: - Offensive stances now grant additional disruption skill. - Wards will now stack with shadowknight reactive heals/damage shields. Shadowknight changes: - Infernal Blessing will now stack with paladin wards. - Death March's triggered duration is now 10 seconds, automatically triggers when it is cast, had its DPS bonus reduced, and now reduces casting times. - Offensive stances now grant additional disruption skill. Warlock changes: - Boon of the Dark: Can be cast on a raid member. If they are a fighter, this transfers a small amount of the warlock's hate toward the fighter. - Stop Breath's debuff amount has been increased, and its power cost reduced. - The Null Caress spell will no longer cause the target's UI to display the zone loading screen. Wizard changes: - Accord can be cast on a raid member. If they are a fighter, this transfers a small amount of the wizard's hate toward the fighter. Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder Community Relations Manager Custodian of the Nerfbat Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on August 22, 2006, 08:34:35 AM Any idea when this may go live? I may actually consider playing again.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on August 22, 2006, 08:58:53 AM I keep going back and forth on EQ2 and CoX for new stuff. I never stay very long but that doesn't bother me. I enjoy being entertained by MMOs even if it's only for a month or so. Weeks, even. Days if I don't have to dl much....
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: UD_Delt on August 22, 2006, 09:20:38 AM Any idea when this may go live? I may actually consider playing again. There's supposed to be a Test Update 27b coming out to test sometime soon. Assuming there's no 27c I would expect about 1 week after 27b. Roughly probably 2 weeks from now. I'm sure I'll still be playing then so I can give a quick review once this patch hits. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on August 22, 2006, 09:41:56 AM Thanks UD. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Mr_PeaCH on August 22, 2006, 02:19:06 PM I'll be watching too. Played the Trial of the Isle thingy back when and EQ2 seemed "ok" and more importantly ran good on my crappy PC. Just the other week I saw the EQ2 box marked down to $10 at Fry's. Figure what the hell...
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Lt.Dan on August 22, 2006, 06:50:07 PM I'd resub for that.
And now in the spirit of the Candyman, Cheddar, Cheddar, Cheddar. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: hal on August 22, 2006, 07:32:07 PM Ya, Ac didn't work out. And the ability to solo while LFG would work. I still want a bustier and implants but thats prolly thats just me. I'll be back if it doses what it's saying.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Cheddar on August 22, 2006, 08:20:54 PM Hmmm, I may be up for some EQ2. I really enjoyed my rat guys!
But we will need voice chat. Some of you fuckers have issues typing while playing! Not going to name names. Plus I am chatty. Man, one of my favorite South Park episodes is on! Its the one where Cartman convinces Butters that an asteroid hit South Park, and he is in the dump building society and stuff. Drunk 4TW!!! edit. Additional! Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: UD_Delt on August 23, 2006, 10:03:27 AM I'm sort of curious myself as to how far they will take it.
At midlevels (20-50), in a good group, that's well balanced and is intent on grinding you can get a about one level every 2 hours. In about 4 hours you would burn through 100% vitality. Currently soloing with a decent solo class is about 25% as efficient. I could see about a 100% increase in soloing being good but if they bring it up to the equivalent of grouping that might be a problem. The net result of that will be people complaining about not having enough vitality. Then they'll increase vitality and next thing you know everyone can grind out a level 70 in 2 weeks and will be bored with the game. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Furiously on August 23, 2006, 10:37:30 AM EQ2 has some good raiding zones.
The trouble I found was there are not enough people interested in raiding and only 2-3 raiding guilds per server. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: UD_Delt on August 24, 2006, 06:32:09 AM EQ2 has some good raiding zones. The trouble I found was there are not enough people interested in raiding and only 2-3 raiding guilds per server. As of the last 2-3 months I've noticed A LOT more pick up raids lately. It seems almost every night that someone is putting together a pick up raid for some zone or other. I have no idea how successful they are as I've never participated but at least they are happening. And if they are happening that often I have to assume at least a reasonable amount of success. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: jpark on August 24, 2006, 06:33:02 AM Then they'll increase vitality and next thing you know everyone can grind out a level 70 in 2 weeks and will be bored with the game. I think that says something about the game... Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Surlyboi on August 24, 2006, 06:58:12 AM Yeah, it says it's not WoW.
Then again, I never made it past level 20 in that game because it bored me to tears from go. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: UD_Delt on August 24, 2006, 07:09:24 AM It would say something about it if they did that I guess. You can have an infiinite amount of content but if you continually level too quickly too consume it when it's challenging then the game in my opinion is going to be boring. You hit max level before doing 20% of what's available.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on August 25, 2006, 10:53:14 AM I'm thinking my $15/mo goes to this game until Tabula Rasa comes out. If Tabula Rasa fails to keep me, maybe longer. EQ2 is probably the most fully featured fantasy MMORPG out there right now. It wasn't at release, but it is now. World of Warcraft will be more popular, but I'm burnt from WoW.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: jpark on August 25, 2006, 01:06:44 PM Eventually I will return to this game - I have played it off and on recently.
However, I am still waiting for a major change to this game. If they add some interesting gear appearnces or change the avatars - I am back. Until then - I am watching. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on August 25, 2006, 01:19:53 PM Eventually I will return to this game - I have played it off and on recently. However, I am still waiting for a major change to this game. If they add some interesting gear appearnces or change the avatars - I am back. Until then - I am watching. So true! For all of the attempted graphics shiny, they sure fell short on character customization. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on August 25, 2006, 01:24:55 PM I also do the on again, off again subbing with EQ2. It would be awesome to have more flexibility with character creation and the ability to customise armour and weapons to a greater degree. I've not found crafting to be very exciting in any MMO since I left SWG.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on August 30, 2006, 12:35:02 PM Did they ever finish the crafting simplifications? Subcombines were eating my soul. My estimate of a September return to EQ2 may have been a bit hasty, but I am getting the urge to play again. Now I just need the time :)
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Ezdaar on August 30, 2006, 02:53:13 PM Did they ever finish the crafting simplifications? Subcombines were eating my soul. My estimate of a September return to EQ2 may have been a bit hasty, but I am getting the urge to play again. Now I just need the time :) Yes. No more subcombines. They also made the broker much nicer since you can access selling space at the broker window and you can buy and sell at the broker in the tradeskill instance. I've found that non-rare crafted gear is much much cheaper and more plentiful now as well. You can stock up on food and drink or potions, etc cheaply. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Kenrick on September 06, 2006, 06:10:35 PM Sigh... I really did enjoy tradeskills in this game EXCEPT for the ubelievably tedious subcombining.
Re-installing now to give it another whirl. We'll see how my old level 30 dwarf warrior is doing. I bet he's hungry -- it's been a while! Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: NiX on September 08, 2006, 08:55:42 AM But we will need voice chat. Some of you fuckers have issues typing while playing! Not going to name names. You're talking about Hal. Just say it. The rest of us were fine. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 08, 2006, 08:59:31 AM I'm not great with typing while playing, either, but I'm also not crazy about voice chat while playing. I just don't fit in.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: NiX on September 08, 2006, 09:10:58 AM But your accent is so cool :heart:
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 08, 2006, 09:57:10 AM I don't have an accent. People in Britain think I'm from Canada, except for a group of old Irish ladies who used to sit on the bench in the little park outsdie my flat in Surbiton. Somehow they got it in their heads that I was from Lithuania. What the hell is Lithuania? People in the US think I'm from outer space. Mostly.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: NiX on September 11, 2006, 10:01:18 PM You hardly sound like you're from Canada. No one has any clue what we sound like. I blame the US.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 12, 2006, 07:33:50 AM When people accuse me of being Canadian, I sulk. The queen's not the boss of me! Anyway, I have to go play K.O. The Leprechaun. The ad above beckons me. I could win a Razr, even though I don't know what that is.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on September 12, 2006, 08:29:53 AM Played to level 20, cancelled my sub.
Resubbed, played to 30, and cancelled my sub. Resubbed, played until level 40, and cancelled my sub. PvE just never seems to hold my attention long. Especially in a game where solo players can't complete half the quests until they are green/gray. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Xanthippe on September 18, 2006, 11:52:36 AM When people accuse me of being Canadian, I sulk. The queen's not the boss of me! Anyway, I have to go play K.O. The Leprechaun. The ad above beckons me. I could win a Razr, even though I don't know what that is. Why don't I see ads? Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 18, 2006, 12:48:30 PM I don't know. Maybe you've gone blind in a good way?
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 18, 2006, 01:21:53 PM OK so what is the reality for anyone who's played this now Live? Is exp comparable to WoW? I'm being honest here cause I don't find EQ2 that steamlined. And I don't sense a lot of folks on Oasis/SF
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Modern Angel on September 18, 2006, 01:54:37 PM Seems fast as Hell to me on Crushbone. Levelled my Swashbuckler from 15 to 23 in a couple days.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 19, 2006, 06:14:45 AM I played solo last night. Definitely need some time to readapt...
Hurts me to no end that I still can't wipe off SH and that bloody Gnoll Captain quest out of my log even at lvl28. Is there any plans to ever add a First Aid skill? the downtime seems unnecessary, sit&wait Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Kenrick on September 19, 2006, 08:53:03 PM Is there any plans to ever add a First Aid skill? the downtime seems unnecessary, sit&wait dewd... get yourself some good food & drink. out-of-combat downtime is zilch. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 19, 2006, 10:09:29 PM FYI, you're able to use food and drink that's of the next tier. In other words, if you're level 20-29, you can use food and drink marked level 30. Yes, that's very odd considering the level readout on any other item means minimum required level to use it.
Also, do a search on the broker for "totem" and be amazed. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 20, 2006, 06:11:29 AM uh uh, still several seconds nearing half a minute with some DOTs. Also the difference is between having a moneysink versus having a personal skill you can level and fund with things like cloth drops. Minor beef.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 20, 2006, 07:10:37 AM I played solo last night. Definitely need some time to readapt... Heh. Solo in EQ2? Get used to fighting yard trash. They don't want solo players taking on named mobs or anything with cool drops. I could still find fun in the game, but that never stopped bothering me. Was EQ so broken in that regard? Iirc I was still getting jobbed by the stupid named orc quest mob outside Freeport at level 30.Downtime. I'm not really interested in any game with downtime anymore. I don't have the time to waste sitting around doing nothing, no matter what that means to game integrity or balance or foo. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 20, 2006, 07:52:06 AM yeah the game blows solo. But I just don't have the time or inclination to do anything else. And group play has been "Wanna do ROV for 2hours till I get my drop??" Uh no, I just want to level and finish these fucking green quests, which for some reason I can't solo...
It's funny cause there's lots of content, but the UI is sooo horrible (that quest logs blows hard as does inventory) that the game just feels way too clunky. I'm still sort of playing waiting for an OMG! moment to break through. Otherwise I'll just cancel once again. SOE seems to be on the right track this year with improving the game, and these expansion do look cool (I bought Splitpaw which was Ok and KoS which I can't play yet), but they just can make birdie. Open the fucking game up already and sink the putt. Lots of market research showing there's more so-called casual gamers out there. Bizzare. What is SOE worried about with old-world "Oh noes they ate through our content too fast and churned"? Look around. Maybe why Hartsmann doesn't post here anymore but is stuck on FoH boards. Progression fever. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 20, 2006, 12:00:49 PM I don't know where we're getting this "EQ2 can't be comfortably soloed" stuff. I've been soloing 99% of the time in EQ2. There are a few untackable scenarios, but not nearly as much as back at release. (Of course, playing an Illusionist helps when those inadvertant adds are pulled.)
No, the main problem I'm having is actually getting in a group, and that's on the most populated PvE server. It's not server population - EQ2's world is just too big. The developers had the right idea when they started merging servers to try to increase the player density. Another thing I noticed is that the quests don't sync with level very well. I tried to complete all of my Antonica quests before moving to Thundering Steppes. Still had a dozen or so left when I realized I was level 25 and thus half way through having outleveled the Steppes. So, compare this to WoW where your quests dry up and you're dragged to areas of appropriate level, and you can see why this can make it difficult to sync up a proper amount of players in the right places to form groups most of the time. Duos and trios are the more likely result in EQ2, and most of their "group" content is balanced towards that. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 20, 2006, 12:21:05 PM I hardly ever grouped and leveled pretty fast. I disliked the game in beta and only subbed when I heard that they had made huge changes and that it was very soloable... they didn't lie. I do, however, have the same problem with outleveling quests and areas. The number of quests is HUGE and I just can't keep up, even when I make a concerted effort. I can't even begin to count how many quests I've had to delete. I have to say, though, it's a lot better than running out of quests. I resub to EQ2 pretty often. I'll probably do so for the next big thing they have. Right now I'm not subbed to anything. And I'm cranky, too.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on September 20, 2006, 12:23:02 PM Have you played much past level 40 Signe? I think you'd find the solo leveling is anything but fast when the quests you are relegated to solo are all green/gray.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 20, 2006, 12:30:51 PM No, I haven't played much past 40... 44, I think is the highest. I've started several chars but became a bit weary of doing the early quests so much. I'm also one of those people who, when reaching the level cap, reckon I've won the game and quit. :-) Fortunately, I'm so casual that it rarely happens.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: tazelbain on September 20, 2006, 12:34:33 PM I don't know where we're getting this "EQ2 can't be comfortably soloed" stuff. But thats not the issue. Sky wants all content to be accessable to solo players. EQ2 has some really great quests and areas. But most of it is not for solo players. It doesn't matter if you make it easier for people to solo if they are locked out of the compelling content.Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 20, 2006, 12:46:36 PM Yeah. Solo Blackburrow when you can still get experience and good drops there. Good luck.
I don't mind a challenge, I did play original EQ to level 54 when the cap was 60 as a solo necromancer. Necros were a good solo class, but you had to be on your game to solo a lot of stuff, and there was still plenty that couldn't be solo'd. But not because the mob had a magic 'group-only' flag that made it way too tough for solo players. It's like every dungeon is a plane raid or something. Garbage. As Taz points out, I'm not saying you can't solo and level up. Both my characters are in the 30s, and I managed to get plenty of quests for each. It's just the omnipresent cockblock that keeps me away. I miss using creative tactics SOE apparently hated in EQ1, I also played a great feign-pulling monk. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 20, 2006, 12:57:32 PM No, I haven't played much past 40... 44, I think is the highest. I've started several chars but became a bit weary of doing the early quests so much. I'm also one of those people who, when reaching the level cap, reckon I've won the game and quit. :-) Fortunately, I'm so casual that it rarely happens. My zerker is 57 and there are more solo quests (about a half dozen quest series) in Pillar of Flames to get me to 59 probably. If you set out to do every single soloable quest for your level range, you will green out many of them. When a quest goes green, I delete it unless it is part of an arc. I want to focus on blue and higher quests because those give AA points. If I don't delete the green quests then I overstay my time in the same zone and get bored. As far as pickup groups, I agree it can be hard to find an exp group in the zone you want to hunt in, but I have found that there are usually people looking for help on the Heritage Quests or other major quest lines like the carpet quest in SS. If you spam your level channel a bit, you will find people (or alts of people) who want to advance those. I also find that if I announce "57 zerk forming a group for <insert instance here>" I tend to get some replies. Many people go LFG hoping someone else will organize a group instead of trying to organize it themselves. There are too many times when I have seen "57 pally LFG" "55 defiler LFG" "58 troub LFG" back to back in a chat channel. That is a 4-man group right there if you start inviting them. You just have to have an answer to the inevitable "what are we hunting?" No one ever objects to instances in my experience. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 20, 2006, 01:02:49 PM it's like anything -- ya, you can solo in EQ2 the same way you can push a car up a hill on yer own. Doesn't mean it's in any way fun. Also, the insight of quest being incomplete per level or zone is bang on. Not knowing anything I've been reasonably trying to complete "green" quests in my (useless UI) log and its been a waste of time. I don't understand the need to push players on to other zones, only to drag them back to the same damn places they banged their head against. I'm 28 and I still don't have those plans from the Gnoll Captain which I think is lvl 14 quest.
also, WTF was up with the design of having mobs that are 24^^^? why not just have them another level or call them Heroic and be done with it? This way you have no real way of knowing if that green^^^ is actually soloable. EQ2 is frustrating because at every turn there's a throttle on your gameplay or a form or downtime to keep the fun from happening too fast. And there seems to be so much content to get into. Bizarre. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 20, 2006, 02:03:56 PM Pickup groups are only acceptable if everyone is already in the zone you want to play in. I have zero time to wait around for people to get their shit together.
Also...working with strangers isn't fun much of the time. And if the phone or doorbell rings, I'll leave immediately. I solo for good reasons, I don't like to bother people or be bothered by them in turn. Luckily, with the amount of time I have to play games, single player games are filling the bill quite well. I think I'll play through Gothic II again and Gothic III should be out soon :) Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Strazos on September 21, 2006, 04:50:49 AM When I tried to play this again some time last year with my Brigand, I found that soloing stuff in EL did nothing for me. I soloed orange-con stuff for like, 2 hours, and couldn't notice a difference in my XP bar.
Also, they nerfed Brigand's high-damage Ruse ability, which I was very fond of previously. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on September 21, 2006, 08:16:15 AM Pickup groups... ugh. I think this may be the single phenomenon driving me away from mmogs. I have yet to get into a pickup group where I felt like people knew what they were doing. Thankfully most games now come with a /qtd function.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 21, 2006, 08:21:26 AM Pickup groups are only acceptable if everyone is already in the zone you want to play in. I have zero time to wait around for people to get their shit together. You are entitled to your impatience, I guess, but with the two recall spells available to most players 50+ (the home city one and the Maj Dul one) it takes maybe 5 minutes for 6 people to meet up from anywhere in the game world. During those 5 minutes, you can continue to solo whatever you were soloing. edit: As I hit submit, I realized this is not the case for people meeting in KoS. KoS requires using the Nexus-like teleporters which requires some land travel. People in KoS can leave easily, but 6 people not in KoS will take 15 minutes to meet up in KoS. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 22, 2006, 09:00:28 AM It's not impatience, though I am impatient when it comes to sitting around waiting for people. It's about having a half hour at a time to play. Rather than being a flaw on my part, it's a feeling born out of respect for others, since I don't want someone to travel across the world just to sit for 20 minutes with me. It's not a huge deal, I just don't play mmo. But with the larger game world, I'd like to be able to solo in one more effectively and EQ2 and WoW don't want players doing that, unless you relegate yourself to being a second-class citizen.
I'll never subscribe to the idea that mmo means you must be forced to group to do the cool stuff. I guess I'm stuck with Oblivion and Gothic. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 22, 2006, 10:17:59 AM Clearly I misunderstood. I know I hate it when a group forms and someone leaves after 20 minutes, especially if that class was the tank or the healer.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Strazos on September 22, 2006, 11:08:23 AM I can hardly think of any console/PC games that are worth playing for only a half hour...Counterstrike?
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: HaemishM on September 22, 2006, 11:19:06 AM Unreal Tournament, most sports games on the console, hell, I've managed to have fun with the original Ghost Recon on the X-Box in half-hour chunks.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 22, 2006, 12:11:43 PM I can hardly think of any console/PC games that are worth playing for only a half hour...Counterstrike? Yeah, tell me about it. It counts out most rpg and tbs stuff I love. I've been playing through Gothic 2 again and it's obnoxious trying to remember little quest bitlets, a lot of the time someone will just drop a verbal clue I'll totally forget (I just remembered one from last night...the bow thief dove off the docks...). I'm actually considering having a gaming notebook, something I haven't used since Daggerfall/Ultima 8 days.Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 22, 2006, 12:14:48 PM I know I hate it when a group forms and someone leaves after 20 minutes, especially if that class was the tank or the healer. Maybe they should have classes specifically denied grouping. You can play an overpowered necro or druid, but you can never group, though you can also take on group-only content. Then slap on an experience cap per diem to quash power gamers ala Siege Perilous.Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 22, 2006, 12:29:54 PM I think the problem with EQ2 is beyond class balance. I'm more prone to blame the Quest in EverQuest and, specifically, how it's arranged in EQ2. Players want to get those quests done, and in doing so they're obligated not to get tied down in a group that prevents the player from getting the quests done. If they are, they'll outlevel the quests before completing them, thereby losing those rewards, and so they'll avoid grouping. It's a commonly observed phenominon in World of Warcraft, but made significantly worse in EQ2 because there's way more quests. Enough that even if I were to do nothing but solo quests (which I have been, pretty much), I'll still outlevel quests before getting them all done!
Bottom Line: Soloing is not only supported in EQ2, it actively punishes you for grouping by preventing you from completing quests before they're no longer as lucrative. Sure, there are quests you can only complete in a group, but good luck finding the members to do those when everybody else is half way across norrath getting their own done. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 22, 2006, 12:34:05 PM I think the problem with EQ2 is beyond class balance. I'm more prone to blame the Quest in EverQuest and, specifically, how it's arranged in EQ2. Players want to get those quests done, and in doing so they're obligated not to get tied down in a group that prevents the player from getting the quests done. If they are, they'll outlevel the quests before completing them, thereby losing those rewards, and so they'll avoid grouping. It's a commonly observed phenominon in World of Warcraft, but made significantly worse in EQ2 because there's way more quests. Enough that even if I were to do nothing but solo quests (which I have been, pretty much), I'll still outlevel quests before getting them all done! Bottom Line: Soloing is not only supported in EQ2, it actively punishes you for grouping by preventing you from completing quests before they're no longer as lucrative. Sure, there are quests you can only complete in a group, but good luck finding the members to do those when everybody else is half way across norrath getting their own done. and what a piss off they're still there to haunt you in your quest log day after day. Let's all haul ass back to Antonica to finish all those Green ^^^ quests in SH. Right... Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 22, 2006, 12:49:47 PM I've been hitting the "delete quest" button a lot lately, targetting green quests specifically, but not without remorse. Outside of extensive research outside of the game, how can I tell that some lower level quest that I deleted isn't a prerequisite in some higher level quest I really want to do?
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: HaemishM on September 22, 2006, 01:04:46 PM The quests in EQ2 and really almost any MMOG today are not written or meant for groups. The context of them is completely wrong. Even the "get 50 friends and raid" quests are really written as if they are presented to one individual and oh yeah, you can have friends help you if you want to (though the gameplay mechanics require you to have friends). But there aren't really many quests that actively bring people together. There aren't two quests, given to two different people, that must be completed by both people but with different reasons for doing so.
For instance, you and your group of hobbits are going to meet Gandalf, and along the way Strider meets you in Bree and saves you from the wraiths. That kind of "accidental on purpose" questing doesn't exist, but it really should. That's where the lack of a human GM/storyteller hurts MMOG's. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 22, 2006, 01:40:00 PM I think the problem with EQ2 is beyond class balance. I'm more prone to blame the Quest in EverQuest and, specifically, how it's arranged in EQ2. Players want to get those quests done, and in doing so they're obligated not to get tied down in a group that prevents the player from getting the quests done. If they are, they'll outlevel the quests before completing them, thereby losing those rewards, and so they'll avoid grouping. It's a commonly observed phenominon in World of Warcraft, but made significantly worse in EQ2 because there's way more quests. Enough that even if I were to do nothing but solo quests (which I have been, pretty much), I'll still outlevel quests before getting them all done! Bottom Line: Soloing is not only supported in EQ2, it actively punishes you for grouping by preventing you from completing quests before they're no longer as lucrative. Sure, there are quests you can only complete in a group, but good luck finding the members to do those when everybody else is half way across norrath getting their own done. That is all true and well written except this part: "[EQ2] actively punishes you for grouping by preventing you from completing quests before they're no longer as lucrative." There are quests that require groups. These requests have better loot rewards and better exp. Plus, you always get better exp and a better loot table (which you have to share, of course) in a group as long as you are fighting heroic mobs at or above the average level of the group. So, while anyone can make steady progress solo, grouping is better if you can get it. That can be a big "if" for people like Sky. If all you do is solo in EQ2, unless you can make your own spells via tradeskilling, you are going to be challenged to have/afford any adept3s/master spells and any Legendary gear. In fact, you will be hard pressed to afford a full suit of Mastercrafted gear before reaching the middle of the appropriate tier. Soloing will provide lots of harvesting opportunities and lots of Treasured quest rewards and adept1 spells, but having only that will severely limit how efficient'y you solo in the first place. EQ2 is still best experienced with a group as far as advancement rate and gear, but the devs have also done a good job of giving the solo player a semi-story-driven game to experience if grouping isn't possible all the time. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 22, 2006, 01:47:26 PM My problem with grouping isn't that I don't want to group, so much as I seem to have a hard time even finding groups when everybody's too busy doing their own thing. That's the issue I have with quests - I think they go beyond giving somebody their own thing to do, and into the realm of punishing them if they group because then they'll outlevel their quests. Yes, there are quests that involve grouping, but it's a catch22 - where's players who are available to group with? Too busying doing solo quests.
I know this because I've actually found myself not wanting to group sometimes because then I'll outlevel my quests while doing something unrelated. Lately, most of the group opportunities I've seen have been, "Oh, lets just go kill stuff for xp" groups. That sucks. The rest were either out of my level range or for quests I've never heard of or already done. It could be that this is only an issue with lower levels, as the highest I've ever been is level 25ish. I hear things slow down a bit later. I shouldn't be looking forward to that, but I am. FYI, I do make a goodly amount on the broker, more than enough to afford mastercrafted gear. Roots and Ores are consistant sellers, especially with the consignment writ system in place, and sometimes I find other things that will sell too. The main hurdle I run into isn't lack of money but rather broker skillbook availability. Indeed, I've found that to be the main reason I'm into crafting lately. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Strazos on September 24, 2006, 04:41:15 AM If you're getting XP and leveling...what's the difference? The vast majority of quests, in any game, are one-offs.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 24, 2006, 08:52:55 AM what is unequivocally bad design is offering a player who is not grouped (which the system can tell) a quest which is marked green (lower than player level) but can only be completed in a group. This is like triple ugly -- offering a quest lower than the player's level that a player still can't complete. Now, the problem is how the quest requires a group -- more DPS, more participants, more heals, I dunno -- but the fact that I don't see this in WoW or DAoC makes me wonder WTF is up: giving challenges and rewards to you individually that are supposedly lower than you that can't complete alone. And when you can complete them, the mobs of course are grey.
Why do they have that crazy ^^^, ^^, ^ designation? I haven't been able to find out if these are 10%, 20%, or 30% harder? And how are these different from "Heroic" mobs? EQ2 is very confusing. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 24, 2006, 09:52:46 AM Quote from: Soln [...]I don't see this in WoW or DAoC[...] You might be forgetting WoW's "Elite" and "Epic" mobs, which work somewhat identically to EQ2's, preventing solo quest completion until long after you've outleveled them.Granted, we're in agreement that EQ2's method of designations are unneccessarily wierd. Players have to learn that the size of the frame around the mob's name indicate it's general toughness, with additional modifiers in the up arrows. One can get used to it in time, but it's somewhat trial and error. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 24, 2006, 02:44:16 PM Quote from: Soln [...]I don't see this in WoW or DAoC[...] You might be forgetting WoW's "Elite" and "Epic" mobs, which work somewhat identically to EQ2's, preventing solo quest completion until long after you've outleveled them.Granted, we're in agreement that EQ2's method of designations are unneccessarily wierd. Players have to learn that the size of the frame around the mob's name indicate it's general toughness, with additional modifiers in the up arrows. One can get used to it in time, but it's somewhat trial and error. "the size of the frame"? don't understand. The size of the font in EQ2 mobs? And yeah, WoW has those, but EQ2 has heroic and elite and epic/legendary mobs too I thought. The only thing worth trying to figure out for me is how ^ ^^ ^^ and opposite work to my level, since its claimed that decay does not affect your DPS or mitigation unitl 0% exactly. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Kenrick on September 24, 2006, 02:48:06 PM Re-cancelled my account today. Can't believe I lasted almost 3 weeks.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 24, 2006, 06:05:24 PM Quote from: Soln the size of the frame"? don't understand. The size of the font in EQ2 mobs? Everything but the letters itself. When you target the mob, there will have some different looking graphics in the target window - where the hitpoint bar shows up. The more expansive looking the graphics are, the more epic the mob. World of Warcraft actually uses a fairly identical system, but they clarify better by putting (Elite) in the name in addition to the frame graphics. The up arrows just indicate "tougher" than the frame designates. A heroic mob wiith three arrows up will be much tougher than a heroic mob with just one arrow. There's also a tool tip that will pop up when you move your cursor over the target window that tells you how many players the encounter is balanced for as well as a plain english description of how tough the foe is.But for most people, that's just too much information. DAOC's method is just target level = difficulty... which may be inaccurate depending on the type of mob your facing. WoW's method is target level = difficulty except if it's marked "Elite" or "Epic". EQ2's method is target level + all the stuff in the previous paragraph. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Modern Angel on September 24, 2006, 10:02:00 PM Re-cancelled my account today. Can't believe I lasted almost 3 weeks. Same. And I'll be back at some point when I'm at one of my low ebb months in WoW. I want to like this game so much but it makes it so hard. At base it's a purer Diku style game than WoW with more depth. I love the guild system with a passion. You know what it was? This is going to sound so fucking stupid... I was riding a griffon in EQ2 and the wings were stiff as boards. And I thought about riding a WoW griffon and about how it was obvious that the WoW graphics team obviously had watched an eagle fly. EQ2's hadn't. So small and dumb but it sums up the difference in microcosm. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Kenrick on September 24, 2006, 10:12:02 PM Heh... that's as valid a reason as any. WoW's art production department deserves all the accolades they can get.
Personally, I just got to the point where I wasn't having much fun anymore, and my billing cycle was just about up. I'll probably go back and give WoW another spin once the expansion comes out. And then I'll probably play that for a month or two and quit again. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 25, 2006, 05:53:11 AM geldonyetich, I never ever knew that about the tooltips. Man, I don't know this game at all. Thx for the help.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 25, 2006, 07:13:53 AM Why do they have that crazy ^^^, ^^, ^ designation? I haven't been able to find out if these are 10%, 20%, or 30% harder? And how are these different from "Heroic" mobs? EQ2 is very confusing. ^^^ = 2 ^^s = 3^s = 4 no ^s. Basically, each ^ means more HP and higher DPS per mob. ^^^ and ^^ are always heroics, ie group mobs. You will never see 2 ^^^ in one encounter unless you are in a raid instance. Hard group encounters can be ^^^ + 2 ^^s but those also tend to be in raid scenarios. Down arrow mobs are always solo (meaning soloable, not necessarily alone) mobs. All they really need to do is let the player know if a mob is meant to be a solo mob or not. We can already tell what mobs are grouped together because highlighting one mob in an encounter will highlight all the mobs in that encounter so the ^^^ versus 2 ^^s becomes superfluous. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 25, 2006, 07:31:12 AM If you're getting XP and leveling...what's the difference? The vast majority of quests, in any game, are one-offs. My problem is being excluded from cool stuff. If I hadn't been able to solo in Guk, I wouldn't have lasted nearly as long. And it's not like it was simple or newbie friendly. The only friendly thing about Guk was the spawn timer so you could control spawns a little. But little things we take for granted like switching from Gather Shadows to Invis to Undead on the way down, I learned the hard way before people had ever been in Guk :)I don't play mmo for levels or xp, that's simply a character customization schema, like picking hair color but more useful in gaming terms. I play for the cool experiences, exploration, and interesting opportunities. EQ2 says you need to group for that. If EQ2 had a Guk, I wouldn't make it past the entry spawns. That's why I don't like EQ2. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Glazius on September 25, 2006, 11:25:41 AM Hi, drooling Co* fanboy. Some questions about solo-vs-group and conning in EQ2.
1) At any given time, how many players are solo, versus grouped? Or isn't there any way to tell? 2) Is there something that would prevent ^^^s from making mobs con visually higher than their levels would indicate? Co* cons lieutenants as +1, bosses as +2, archvillains as +5, and underlings as -1. --GF Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 25, 2006, 11:50:30 AM Hi, drooling Co* fanboy. If the grind doesn't bother you yet, no harm in sticking with CoH. I say this just because I've bad experience with overdiluting my MMORPG commitment. I wouldn't jump ship for EQ2 until CoH is proving genuinely painful.Quote Some questions about solo-vs-group and conning in EQ2. 1) At any given time, how many players are solo, versus grouped? Or isn't there any way to tell? EQ2's somewhat outdated /who interface doesn't have a method to determine who is grouped and who isn't (unlike CoX's nifty dimmed-out-if-grouped names). However, to judge it from circumstantial evidence, I'm going to stay that most players play solo except when there's a particularly nasty place they need to hunt. I think there's actually more grouping going on in City of Heroes/Villains than there is in EQ2, at least until you get up to higher levels when raiding becomes the order of the day. This is probably because CoX makes it easier to find group members. Quote 2) Is there something that would prevent ^^^s from making mobs con visually higher than their levels would indicate? Co* cons lieutenants as +1, bosses as +2, archvillains as +5, and underlings as -1. The arrows are specifically there because mobs will con visually higher than their levels would indicate. There's ^^^ green-colored mobs with a Heroic graphic on their name that would trash you where most green-colored mobs (without the ^^^) are a cake walk. EQ2's con system is actually a very, very good con system. You'll have a very good idea how tough a mob is... after you figure the overly complex thing out.Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 25, 2006, 12:22:18 PM ya like a lot of things in EQ2 some good design is obscurred by some bad UI implementation. The tooltips are pretty comprehensive and to the point (once Geldonyetich actually pointed me to them). Do they mention then in the Trial of the Isle?
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Glazius on September 25, 2006, 02:51:10 PM Quote 2) Is there something that would prevent ^^^s from making mobs con visually higher than their levels would indicate? Co* cons lieutenants as +1, bosses as +2, archvillains as +5, and underlings as -1. The arrows are specifically there because mobs will con visually higher than their levels would indicate. There's ^^^ green-colored mobs with a Heroic graphic on their name that would trash you where most green-colored mobs (without the ^^^) are a cake walk. EQ2's con system is actually a very, very good con system. You'll have a very good idea how tough a mob is... after you figure the overly complex thing out.--GF Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 25, 2006, 03:17:17 PM Quote from: Soln Do they mention then in the Trial of the Isle? Not sure. If so, it'd be in the main isle quest on the first trainer you're sent to speak to before first engaging a target. The different frames on the "easy", "normal" and "formidable" opponent choice you're presented with are probably there to try to clue players in, but I'm not sure how well the trainer's dialogue points those out.Quote from: Glazius I mean, why skip the middleman? If green is "easy-peasy" and red is "WILL KILL YOU", why not make green+^^^+Heroic look "WILL KILL YOU" red? Green is always supposed to mean "easy", even if it's a ^^^ Heroic. The difference is that ^^^ heroic is easy for a group to handle, even if it would thoroughly thrash a solo player. So, why didn't they just make it so green ^^^ Heroics would con red if you were solo but green if you were in a group? My guess is that the color blind players wanted a system they could use as well. Thus, a more visual system such as the frame + arrows system became mandatory. SOE, despite their bad rep for ignoring their players, actually seems to have the problem being the other way around: many design choices that players find negative are due to their listening to the playerbase. SWG's NGE, for example, was due to exit surveys exceeding their existing playerbase and much of the existing playerbase saying the current combat was boring. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 26, 2006, 06:56:11 AM I preferred NGE to the old HAM garbage. They could never understand that telling a rifleman his big deal was causing mind damage was a bit screwy because we had to damage our own mind to do it...HAM was just so fucked up it wasn't fun. NGE was fucked up, but still fun. Most fun I had in SWG was after the NGE.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Glazius on September 26, 2006, 09:03:11 AM Quote from: Glazius I mean, why skip the middleman? If green is "easy-peasy" and red is "WILL KILL YOU", why not make green+^^^+Heroic look "WILL KILL YOU" red? Green is always supposed to mean "easy", even if it's a ^^^ Heroic. The difference is that ^^^ heroic is easy for a group to handle, even if it would thoroughly thrash a solo player. So, why didn't they just make it so green ^^^ Heroics would con red if you were solo but green if you were in a group? My guess is that the color blind players wanted a system they could use as well. Thus, a more visual system such as the frame + arrows system became mandatory. I can see how frame + arrows can provide redundant information to the con color, and information redundancy is A Good Thing, but given how huge a discriminator color is, deciding _not_ to use it to convey challenge information seems a little weird. --GF Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: geldonyetich on September 26, 2006, 09:32:19 AM Quote from: Glazius Can groups handle "WILL KILL YOU" red enemies with no special bells and whistles with about the same level of proficiency they could handle green heroic ^^^s? Hard to say, rarely do I ever get to wrestle with red enemies considering I keep hitting green things that I've outleveled in order to get quests done :P. But I will say this much - higher level (red con) targets will prove harder to hit and resist spells more often and higher defensive scores so what does hit would hit it less. So it's possible that a red con with no special bells and whistles could threaten a group where a green heroic ^^^ wouldn't. The ^^^ basically just means "hits harder and has more hitpoints", where red cons hit harder, have more hitpoiints, and everything else related to level advantage.Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 26, 2006, 12:58:14 PM Mobs that con red (solo or heroic) are going to own you hard. When a mob is orange to you (+3-4 levels) you miss a lot and the mob will miss rarely. Red (+5 and higher) is evern worse.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Phred on September 27, 2006, 11:54:43 AM Does the zone design in EQ2 change much after you leave the newbie isle? I tried the trial of the isle and didn't like it because the zones felt so cramped with high walls everywhere. Way different than EQ or WoW.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Venkman on September 27, 2006, 01:25:13 PM It does. But the game doesn't really get any prettier. They seem to love that muddy dull-lighting look, striving for the low points of ultra-realistic dingy Middle Ages. Which is a shame. You put any person in front of any screenshot from WoW and any from EQ2 and I'll guarantee more than3/4 of them prefer WoW. This is EQ2 and WoW both at ultra-max AAx200 AFx200 settings and whatnot. WoW is just more inviting by nature of its style.
"immersion" is more than just feeling like you're there. It's actually wanting to be there, and this is something EQ2 has always had a problem with. Which is a shame. It's not like they couldn't hire better artists. And it's not like those artists couldn't force the engine to render things better. Quote from: Geldonyetich EQ2's con system is actually a very, very good con system Good though it is at explaining things, it's based on a poor premise. To me, the /con system is complex because the system is complex because they were so scared to allow people to make mistakes and learn from them, and for other people to jump in and help at whim. They basically made the system so contrived they had no choice but to use this laborously overworked ^^^ approach. I say forget that noise. Levels only, maybe "Elite/Lieutenant/Boss" if you need to as an exception. If someone dies because a mob is particularly hard based on skillset/template, fine, they learn. But they can't just do that without tweaking everything else, from Linked Encounters to the death penalty to "Call for Help". I've always said EQ2 gives players just too much information. It prevents creativity and emergent behavior. Those can be bad things, time sinks for devs. But they also are good things, when properly managed. They can build the all-important community. Even the most contrived iterative and predictable CoX/WoW raids feel like they would accept more player creativity than any EQ2 encounter. It's just too predictable at its most basic, and therefore likely unchangeable at this point, foundation. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 27, 2006, 01:36:26 PM I always forget about those mudsucking linked encounters.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Signe on September 27, 2006, 01:51:36 PM Me too. They shouldn't bother me so much, but they do. They're really not such a big deal, but they are.
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Venkman on September 27, 2006, 02:02:44 PM It's the first thing I disliked about the game. Shortly thereafter was the Call for Help thing. The entire system seems anathema to random social encounters, because apparently they hated how much that burned them in EQ1 or something.
When I played it again early this year (based on Pub 19), I liked the game alot. It still gave too much info though, because it had to, and it still is quick ugly (even on top-end computers I was able to play it on). Ultimately, I feel the game controls you more than you do it. WoW is not so very different, it's just far less obvious about it. Sorta like old EQ. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: tazelbain on September 27, 2006, 02:14:58 PM I don't think many people here played this part of the game, but EQ2 deserves kudos for making dungeons fun and worthwhile to crawl through. Of course the problem was getting a stable group so you didn't have to restart(evac) everytime you had to replace someone. They should emulate Puzzle pirates and allow people to teleport to team when they join.
I really dislike the starting outdoor zones (Antonia, Thundersteppes, etcs). They are really bland but wide open. And as a solo player you are pretty much stuck there until you graduate to EL and Zek. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Surlyboi on September 27, 2006, 02:15:39 PM It does. But the game doesn't really get any prettier. They seem to love that muddy dull-lighting look, striving for the low points of ultra-realistic dingy Middle Ages. Which is a shame. You put any person in front of any screenshot from WoW and any from EQ2 and I'll guarantee more than3/4 of them prefer WoW. This is EQ2 and WoW both at ultra-max AAx200 AFx200 settings and whatnot. WoW is just more inviting by nature of its style. Here, I've got to disagree. I like EQ2's look because it's dingy. I look at WoW's landscape and backdrop and I'm left feeling bored. It's overly fantastical and I feel like yet another cog in the machine that's churning out useless adventures. I look at the landscape in EQ2 and the backstory and see a world that's been torn apart and haphazardly put back together. I feel like someone that has a stake in making that world make sense again. Maybe it's just me. That said, I agree with the rest of your points about the Con system feeling overly-engineered. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 28, 2006, 06:54:57 AM I don't think many people here played this part of the game, but EQ2 deserves kudos for making dungeons fun and worthwhile to crawl through. Of course the problem was getting a stable group so you didn't have to restart(evac) everytime you had to replace someone. They should emulate Puzzle pirates and allow people to teleport to team when they join. I really dislike the starting outdoor zones (Antonia, Thundersteppes, etcs). They are really bland but wide open. And as a solo player you are pretty much stuck there until you graduate to EL and Zek. you're not talking about Stormhold right, because man that place needs to be blown up. It's bad design when your 5 man party falls to crap when only one person leaves. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 28, 2006, 06:58:53 AM Quote And as a solo player you are pretty much stuck there until you graduate to EL and Zek. And then you are pretty much stuck there. EQ2 just makes me want to play EQ (until I remember how much that game bugs me, like downtime). I was considering playing some EQ2 here shortly, but just remembering ^^^ and linked mobs sours it for me. Add in the inability to enjoy dungeons without having a group and I think I'll just play some more Gothic 2.As I've said, not being able to solo in a dungeon like Guk - one of my favorite parts of EQ, even though it was slow gameplay mostly - is where I think EQ2 failed utterly. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Nebu on September 28, 2006, 08:08:46 AM EQ2 is long on structure and short on heart. There's almost no room to be creative in the game. Knowing exactly what will come on a given pull really ruined much of the fun and gave the game an almost sterile feel.
As for mobs, the con system is somewhat uninspired. I don't know why they couldn't have used a color con system that was active and changed depending on your group situation. For example, rather than the ^^^ they could have the mobs in a heroic encounter con purple to a solo player but say red to a group of 2, orange to a group of 3, and yellow to a group of 4+. The con could also be adjusted for the average level of the group member. That seems much more intuitive. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: tazelbain on September 28, 2006, 08:29:59 AM you're not talking about Stormhold right, because man that place needs to be blown up. You are right Stormhold is a bad place to crawl. Its a throw back to the old crappy dungeons of EQ. A low level dungeon with a few high level spawns plus aggro through walls doesn't make for much fun. The only thing good about it was power leveling on slimes at the chessboard.Quote t's bad design when your 5 man party falls to crap when only one person leaves. On some level thats a player choice on the difficulty of the area you choose to fight in. But if your group loses your trinty(tank/healer/DPS) you really have no choice but to evac. That's why think you should allow every class to fill any trinty role. How fun would be if your cleric was tanking(using his goldly powers to keep mobs cowering), your rogue was your healer(using potions keep everyone healthy) and your warrior was your dps(using his rage to rain devistating blows upon you enemies). Than you can make groups with anyone you meet. And if your healer leaves your second warrior can step up and be the healer( intecepting blows meant for others, shouts to help everyone recover). Plus give every class a balanced soloing mode. No one is left out.And then you are pretty much stuck there. Well there are more trash areas for you to move to later. :-DTitle: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: shiznitz on September 28, 2006, 09:46:10 AM I liked Stormhodl because of the reminder of "crappy EQ1" dungeons. It was pretty easy to get multiple encounters on a pull in SH. Knowing the zone well and being cautious was an important part. The benefit was a high density of mobs and some really nice quests. One of the best parts of SH was also one of the most ignored: dropping down the well to the goblin area. The first time you went down there, it was a disaster because of the wandering mobs. It really reminded me of Guk, but without the maze.
I like the encounter system in EQ2 because without it, groups would need an enchanter again. EQ2 did a fantastic job of un-EQing the holy trinity. But when one designs around an encounter system, the encounter placement becomes really important so that the risk of wiping is still there. It is rare in EQ2 to find a wandering mob that is actually tied into a larger encounter group. This is something EQ2 should do more of: "wanderer incoming. pull it!" "ACK! it is linked to others around the corner" "ADD!" The con system makes this hard for the devs to disguise though, because a ^^^ is almost always alone and a ^ is rarely alone. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 28, 2006, 09:56:11 AM Maybe some wandering damage tables, too, shiz?
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Venkman on September 28, 2006, 06:51:23 PM I'm not a huge fan of games requiring X or Y class, but most do in some way for some zones. As to hybrids being able to fill roles, it seems that players eventually prefer well-defined specialists for the most part over jack-of-all-trades second-bests. If there's specialists, they'll be preferred. Which is a shame as it liimits creativity by players and therefore limits the need for creatiivty on part of the devs.
Quote from: Surlyboi I look at the landscape in EQ2 and the backstory and see a world that's been torn apart and haphazardly put back together. I feel like someone that has a stake in making that world make sense again. Maybe it's just me. I actually agree EQ2s world seems a bit, err, "deeper" maybe, due to how things like Guild Levels, faction relationships with guards and so on are pulled off. I don't get that sense from the graphics, but as you say, different preferences. To me, the thing I love abiout WoW's graphics is that it's much more diverse. There's decrepid and dingy offset by way bright and stylized. Actually reminds me of EQ1 in that regard, a game I consider to have the best all around zone design diversity going.On dungeons though, while I liked some of what EQ2 did, I really think DDO has some of the better ideas going. Traps, puzzles, sure there's lots of sameness, and DDO is even more dingy than EQ2, in an MxO sorta way. But there's some solid thinking in there I wish others would pick up. Would be nice to see iterated elsewhere. Dungeons can be more than just mobs, bosses and drops. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Surlyboi on September 29, 2006, 06:53:38 AM Agreed on DDOs dungeons. The traps are a welcome addition to them.
As for my perspective on EQ2s dinginess, I take it as an extension of the formerly bright things that were the analogous zones in the original EQ. The shitholes of EQ2 were once the bright towers of EQ1 and have fallen into despair and disrepair. It's almost romantic in its own way. Of course, that romance ends with the two protagonists dead in some bizarre manner, but romantic nonetheless. Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Soln on September 29, 2006, 07:04:17 AM agreed about the variety of challenges in DDO dungeons, but c'mon -- that's all the game has
Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Miasma on September 29, 2006, 07:18:53 AM Since the traps are static they are fun and exciting about once, usually less than that since there is almost always someone in the group has done the dungeon before you and will tell you to stop before reaching it.
Whatever happened to DDO, have they shut down the servers yet? Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Sky on September 29, 2006, 08:38:43 AM Quote On dungeons though, while I liked some of what EQ2 did Yeah...wish I could've seen more of the dungeons. They seemed ok, just completely hostile to solo play.Title: Re: EQ2 to boost solo play - Test Update #27a Post by: Zetor on October 02, 2006, 02:37:21 AM Quote from: Soln [...]I don't see this in WoW or DAoC[...] You might be forgetting WoW's "Elite" and "Epic" mobs, which work somewhat identically to EQ2's, preventing solo quest completion until long after you've outleveled them.Granted, we're in agreement that EQ2's method of designations are unneccessarily wierd. Players have to learn that the size of the frame around the mob's name indicate it's general toughness, with additional modifiers in the up arrows. One can get used to it in time, but it's somewhat trial and error. Compared to that, soloing 'elite' quests in EQ2 (I only got to the mid20s) was a pain in the ass... as an enchanter (illusionist?) I'd frequently go out of mana just killing one mob while frantically trying to keep the other 3 in the encounter mezzed, and then trying to regain enough mana to kill a second, run away, then repeat. It wasn't even particularly challenging, just frustrating. IMO. :p -- Z. |