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f13.net General Forums => Archived: We distort. We decide. => Topic started by: HaemishM on March 20, 2006, 11:12:31 AM



Title: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: HaemishM on March 20, 2006, 11:12:31 AM
This is not my beautiful house (http://www.f13.net/commentary.php?subaction=showfull&id=1142874780&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&).


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Ironwood on March 20, 2006, 11:35:21 AM
It even had something to do with Shadowbane.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Signe on March 20, 2006, 01:21:25 PM
Thanks for the great article!  It made me all misty-eyed.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Bunk on March 20, 2006, 04:03:00 PM
That's not Mist. Someone spilled a glass of water in your eyes.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Heresiarch on March 20, 2006, 05:21:11 PM
Question for everyone:

What are your ideas for MMO gameplay other than Diku? What are your favorite non-Diku MMOs? Although obviously SB has Diku elements, do you still consider it primarily a Diku experience? Maybe Diku could be the interface to emergent gameplay, such as might be expected by thinking about RvR while drunk and/or stoned. Do you have thoughts there? What threads can you think of (links plz?) where these questions are discussed?

I'll start by mentioning Sobelius' thread (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=3080.0) about endgame being just more diku, even tho it's not about alternate proposals.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: HaemishM on March 21, 2006, 09:31:07 AM
Question for everyone:

What are your ideas for MMO gameplay other than Diku?

Is there any other gameplay?

Ok, to be less snarky, the non-Diku Mass Market MMOG's can be counted on one hand. Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. Maybe Eve, but I honestly consider that a Diku-style game too. Shadowbane was VERY Diku, it just had a lot of good classes and customization built into it. Had you removed the PVE leveling, I'd have said Shadowbane wasn't very Diku at all. Planetside is non-Diku, and the Star Wars Galaxies NGE has elements of non-Diku-ness strapped onto a Diku level treadmill.

For non-mass market MMOG's, ATitD and Puzzle Pirates are both successful non-Diku models. World War II Online isn't Diku at all, it just happens to blow monkeys.

Quote
What are your favorite non-Diku MMOs? Although obviously SB has Diku elements, do you still consider it primarily a Diku experience? Maybe Diku could be the interface to emergent gameplay, such as might be expected by thinking about RvR while drunk and/or stoned. Do you have thoughts there? What threads can you think of (links plz?) where these questions are discussed?

Diku needs to be shot in the face, stepped on, burned, pissed on, then buried. It's old, tired and DONE TO DEATH. Many ideas have been floated for non-Diku play. We have ideas like the card-based system from Phantom Dust or Metal Gear Solid Acid or Magic The Gathering Online. There's Planetside. There's Guild Wars skill-based system, which is unfortunately strapped to a goddamn Diku-level box. There are systems like the Bioware KotOR/Jade Empire system that has similarities to Diku but don't play like a Diku, or the Fable action-based system. There's Imaginary Numbers' turn-based strategy system which I haven't seen yet but am jonesing for. DDO isn't Diku, despite it being based on the system that Diku is heavily based on.

There's an assload of good, non-Diku based game systems. But either their implementation is mediocre or downright shoddy, they are niche market games or they are buggy as fuck.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Slayerik on March 21, 2006, 10:22:50 AM
Good article...and

He said Neocron....

Forget all the haters (well, the 9 here that played it) , that game was fun. Good PVP (outpost battles, random encounters) and a cool implant system, too bad it had such bad bugs.

I'm just an old MMO junkie, stuck in the "remember old school UO" loop forever. A nice thing about WoW is, I got my wife playing and we have fun on it together. I would have never had her try games like Neocron, Shadowbane, UO, SWG,etc.

So where do we go from here. I personally look forward to a small MMO that does important things correctly, and differently than the herd. The problem is, most of those will be or are vaporware. If they aren't, then they will be the same shit re-wrapped. At this point, TR is my only hope for something remotely interesting. I have been so hard up I almost tried Neocron 2. Help me guys...anything I mighta missed flying under the radar?


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Soukyan on March 23, 2006, 01:58:53 PM
I almost tried Neocron 2.

Me, too. And I may yet, but I've been so pressed for time to even play the subscriptions I pay for that I passed.

First off, nice written, Haemish. Always a pleasure reading your articles.

Looking at the Diku model, it is a hard mold to break. Sure, there are other models, but Diku has proven to be useful to MMOGs on so many levels. And let's face it, psychologically, it keeps people coming back.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: HaemishM on March 23, 2006, 02:06:34 PM
And let's face it, psychologically, it keeps people coming back.

So does heroin.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Soukyan on March 23, 2006, 02:23:09 PM
And let's face it, psychologically, it keeps people coming back.

So does heroin.

Exactly.

We obviously can't open up methadone clinics for MMOG addicts... or can we?

Is Shadowbane like methadone for former WoW subscribers? ;)


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: HaemishM on March 23, 2006, 02:24:11 PM
No, Shadowbane is the Euthanasia for all former subscribers.


Title: Re: f13.net turns 2: Two Years of MMOG's, One Month of Joy
Post by: Fargull on March 23, 2006, 02:42:40 PM
Shadowbane is this rich character building game wrapped in an EQ clone stuck in an Ah-ha video with asstastic net code.