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After initially being leaked, the full trailer is up now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt-2cxAiPJk).

*Exclusively* in movie theatres. Couldn't help themselves.

Not sure what I think of the actual movie. The degree of comic book nerdery in these is starting to get out of control, and the trailer suggested enough plot for a TV series. But it looked much cooler than the other MCU trailers we have right now.

I really hope there's a better reason for Strange to cast that spell than "I'm gonna do you a solid because you and I saved the universe together once, so I'll intervene in space/time to change all of history to help you personally."

 :why_so_serious:

To be honest i stopped expecting anything super serious anytime this version of spiderman is involved.

he's gonna fix his A/C at the same time

The better reason is "to prove that I can", obviously.

he time looped dormammu he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone

But that was with the Time Stone which no longer exists.

the true time stone is the friends we made along the way

I keep wondering if they're gonna bring up the whole "without the Time Stone Dormammu will invade this reality" issue now that it's destroyed.

I also keep wondering if the Stones are actually destroyed destroyed, considering that they seem to be a kind of cheat code that's pretty fundamental to reality.

Given the scene where he first starts messing around with the Time Stone, disregarding Wong's warnings and messing around with things he maybe shouldn't be isn't out of character for Strange.

I don't think it's a matter of the Time Stone being some sort of barrier keeping Dormammu out or anything. The stone was needed so Strange could use it to get Dormammu to leave. Maybe if Dormammu were to find out that it's gone he might decide to try invading again, but even then he doesn't have someone like Kaecilius actively trying to let him in at the moment.

It's like arguing the rules on Who's Line ffs

Strange IS kind of the Tony Stark of magic, so yeah, maybe this is his Ultron ("let's use Peter as an experiment in reality-warping/reality-erasing so I can find out how to undo other mistakes if I or someone else happens to make them").

The stones aren't destroyed, they're reduced to their component atoms or somesuch in order to prevent their further use.  So the time stone is still constraining Dormoru.

That's all I got in terms of handwaving.

Strange is arrogant. He probably simply goes "Yeah, I can do it. Who cares if it might be a problem. That's only for lesser wizards. Not me."

I'm guessing that the trailer is playing around to keep the mystery up--but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the multiversal chaos precedes Peter's meeting with Strange, at least some form of it--and that Jameson is the key sign of it. After all, Peter in the MCU up to this point has had none of the life that gets him involved with J.Jonah Jameson in any form--he and May are not strapped for money in the usual Parker sense, he barely thinks about Ben (because he's had a substitute Dad and a substitute motivational system--he's been more worried all along about pleasing Tony), he's not interested in photography. Jameson showing up suddenly like this is potentially a sign of some multiversal breach spilling over--e.g., Mysterio was a goddamn liar but on this he may actually have been speaking some kind of overheard truth (think about the line in the Eternals trailer that everybody coming back to life started something with 'excess energy').

So the trailer is making it look like it's simple--Peter and Strange just trying to reboot reality--when I'll wager that's a solution to something that's happening that's way worse than everybody knowing his identity.

As long as it doesn't end with Peter annulling his relationship to MJ a-la One More Day...

it's this

this movie takes place *after* loki so

Let them have their fun.

The Time Stone isn't stopping Dormammu, Strange just used it to drive back his invasion.  He was only able to invade because several of the sanctuaries where destroyed.  One has to assume that they've now been rebuilt/re-enforced, and those are what is keeping him at bay, not the stones.   

Dormammu was never being restrained by the time stone. He is being restrained by a deal with Strange.

My guess is just that strange wants an excuse to play with the cool magic
Not sure this is necessary. Jameson comes in because Parker is now known as spiderman. He didn't "not exist" until parker interacts with him. So spider man is still villain number 1 for Jameson and now there is an actual face to that villain

If they want to create universal Peter Parker amnesia, there has to be simpler ways than rewriting reality. "Everyone is hypnotized, we tell everyone to burn that issue of the Daily Planet, done"

It wouldn't surprise me if the reason is "I dunno there seems to be some cosmic time crack centered on you, lets try and fix it... no that didn't work,, hang on I see the sign of Mephesto, lets have a look inside this... WHAT THE FUCK YOU SOLD YOUR MARRAIGE TO THE DEVIL??"

Looking forward to all the Nerd-rage when they screw up the canon.

I'm not sure how that is possible, given that the premise is "Let's put it all in a blender and set it for puree." Like, you can't 'screw up' the canon when the fundamental premise of the movie is that everything just got randomized.

--Dave

The MCU has already screwed up the comic books canon. Whatever the MCU does is canon in the MCU including retconning itself if it wants to.

I was gonna say. Marvel has been busy remaking its canon to get it into line with the movies since IM 1, pretty much. Though I don't keep up that much right now--is Tony Stark still alive in the MU? (He's been dead so often in the last decade...)

I mean, when the movie franchise makes eleventy trillion dollars, I doubt they worry too much about the comic book nerds and their idea of canon.  MCU is the canon.

I'm about 70% sure he is alive in 616 at the moment.

They've certainly been shifting the characters to match the movies. But seems like the idea is to let the comic plots remain total batshit - as that is pretty much the core identity of the medium.

I haven't read much of the comics lately, but the trend for the last 5+ years has been that tight-knit universe spanning continuity is a lot looser than it used to be. Most of the books are pretty short runs compared to what they were - a creative team gets between 2-4 years of issues, maybe 5 and then the status quo of the book is left up to the new team. Even the universe spanning crossovers aren't having as much of an effect as they used to.

Well they had the Ultimate universe for that before they nuked it from orbit. Then they had Brand New All Different Marvel... for like a year and a half before the sales tanked and that wasn't really them merging MCU continuity with 616 continuity so much as making a wish list of characters they wish were more popular and aggressively pushing them. One of the aftermaths of this was, which also coincidently coincided with Marvels legal battles over the Xmen, was the nuking of the xmen/mutants in favor of the inhumans. Remember when MCU Marvel tried to make the inhumans a thing and that never left the runway? Thank the legal battle with Fox and the ongoing gutting of the xmen comics in order to pave the way for the less problematic, more popular, not at all boring ass fuck inhumans.

The biggest beneficiary of the MCU is a thing and not something to be ignored is comic book Captain Marvel. Well comic book Captain Marvel has been pushed pretty hard for a while, at least before the MCU Marvel realized that Captain Marvel wasn't owned by Sony or Fox. Unfortunately she is even less popular after multiple issue 1 releases, multiple teams that she stars and actively leads, and dating War Machine... then her MCU counter part. Iron man for his part is barely a iron anything at this point partially due to Captain Marvel leading the super hero community into countless wars with anything with a super power, being made the bad guy in several comic book events back to back, and also his mantle being passed to anyone not named Tony Stark while he is very much alive.

And that's just the last time I checked into the dumpster fire which is Marvel Comics. I think the closest they've tried to mimicking the MCU success is the reimagining of star lord and the guardians of the galaxy i guess? Maybe?

When I stopped reading comings they were doing endless team battles with X bunch fighting Y bunch. They really haven't had an overall direction for the comics in years, so they appear to be content to have "this is the eternal status quo, so you start off from that and when your team has done it's story then we can reset to default status quo for the next team." Which is not necessarily bad, but they haven't really made that explicit to the reader, so it looks like total chaos all the time a people try and connect a million disconnected threads

Plus, to me, Marvel has always made the classic mistake of way too much good guys and too few villains, so the Villains have to be superpowerful  to stand a chance/be an actual threat to the teams of Superheros. People like Batman, by contrast, could till a football stadium with their antagonists.

Newest trailer, even more spoilery than before: https://youtu.be/ZYzbalQ6Lg8

Yep it's great, even during the times when it calls back to movies that are utter garbage.

Yeah, this was just perfect. That's the first time they have a whole ass trailer as a post credit scene right?

There was the teaser for Avengers after the credits of the first Cap movie. It was probably a little shorter than the Dr. Strange trailer but I'm not sure the Dr. Strange one was a full length trailer.

I would say almost perfect.   I would give it a 9.5 out of 10.

Honestly, the only thing that felt "off" was   Everything else in the whole thing though?  Totally nailed it.  

I enjoyed the movie overall. The crowd for the movie on the other hand was a bit annoying. Had a lady that was audibly cheering on all the big reveals which got old pretty quickly.

Waited half a year for marvel to make a good movie. Instead I ended up waiting for a great movie. More of that please  :drill:

Nearly the entire theater was cheering where I saw it.  Would probably have been annoying if it was only one person but it was hard not to get swept up in the excitement a little when it was the entire sold out crowd.

There was 20 people in the theatre when I went. The crowd cheered on maybe 4 or 5 of the reveals. And it was more than those points honestly this lady was talking out loud to herself throughout the movie. It was odd....

It was very good. Fun. I was sort of hoping

I do like that Strange has more or less gone back to being an arrogant dickbag, with the consequences of that apparently on their way.

Holland-Spider-Man still had his webshooters after Strange pulled his magic shooter back, so I don't think it changed the webshooters at all--it was a separate magical tech.

These, by the way, are nits in relative terms, but they come with the territory when you do the plot device they just did; the Strange movie may or may not deal with these issues. We will see.

On the other hand,

Pretty much. Hopefully the Strange movie will move the ball a little. Doesn't help much with the long-standing (imho annoying) take on Strange that his powers are perilously undefined and thus need to be defined more.

Though the one bone I'd throw there is that the teleportation circle things are way way way way way too fucking powerful.

One fun nerd conversation afterwards that we had was,

Regarding the speculation about the end of the movie:

This already broke a billion and its been like ten days, it hasn't even been released in China and several other countries. That would be impressive even before COVID.

Finally got around to this.

Blimey.

Good movie.

Finally got around to this after finally watching Loki after finally finishing Winter Soldier.

This is the first post Endgame MCU thing that actually got me to care completely while watching. The rest has been like the filler arc of a shounen anime after 40+ eps, I don't want to miss out on any new characters or plot points but I wish I could just skip.

It shouldn't surprise me as Holland Spiderman has been my favorite not RDJ MCU character since jump but it still surprised me. 

Shame the ending was fuckin stupid trash.

Lol nah

The ending didn't have mary jane 360 no-scoping green goblin out the sky so its automatically trash  :drill:

the ending gave us another "poor" avenger who was totally removed from the MCU at large despite being positioned to literally take over for rdj

it was *extremely* bad and made it so we had a modicum of glue in the MCU to absolutely zero glue where everyone is just fucking about getting nothing meaningful done, including strange and thor

as it stands, the movie with the most ramifications seems to be god damned Shang-Chi - which is absurd

So yeah, in the confines of the MCU, the ending was shit.

I like that it got Peter to a sort of "normal state" for Spider-Man--the guilt, the sense of living under an unlucky star, the sense that nobody knows who he is even in his own community of super-heroes and they aren't always sure whether to trust him. I sort of wish it hadn't been "magic memory wipe" for all the reasons I nerded out about before--that kind of shit just can't last and it becomes a story-telling problem almost immediately.

 
I can't condone all the plotholes the memory wipe story creates but I'm not mad at the overall result. So hmm I'm going with it, since spiderman has so far been the only thing post end-game that actually has some A+ quality behind it and wasn't made with Marvels B or C team... 

It gave us comic book Peter Parker in essence which fixes one of the few complaints a lot of people had about the Tom Holland Spiderman that being that he was basically mini-Iron Man instead of Spiderman.

You can't say this kind of thing to a man who's still grieving.

we love him 3000

Honestly, Otto Octavius was the hero of the story.

--Dave

If it weren't for the amazing casting of Holland as Friendly Neighborhood version, I think slotting Iron Spider into the Stark spot in the MCU makes better sense than a 'new Iron Man'. Genius kid, Stark left him $$$$, anonymity from Strange, etc. Then have Miles Morales be the neighborhood version of Spidey. Or even trot out Gwen (but probably not 3000 because that defeats the purpose of street-level spidey).

On the other hand, I think Holland would also nail the Iron Spider thing, too. It's where I was hoping they were taking things.

I think that's basically Ironheart, when she appears.

Honestly, I'd love to see a live-action version of Gwen if it was done right. It'd be great as a series which sadly won't happen unless Sony and Disney get even closer.


Isn't that already on the schedule as a Disney+ series or something?

They are working on it now but it hasn’t been scheduled yet. Probably 2nd half 2023 if no delays.

Ironheart is also going to be in Wakanda Forever which comes out in November.

I could be wrong since I'm not a comic nerd, but I don't think the "guy/girl in mech suit" thing is what defines the "Stark spot in the MCU", I think it's RDJ's performances (and to some extent the fact that he's had generally consistent writing).  Putting a mech suit on Tom Holland doesn't help him fill that RDJ-shaped hole.  Tom Holland is fine but he's not a scene-stealer the way RDJ is.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong and nerds just really love mech suits and they'll accept anyone as "the new Iron Man" as long as enough there's enough CGI layered on top of them, but I think trying to slot in the Iron Whatever is something they're better off just not doing at all because the chances of fucking it up and inviting unfavorable comparisons are too high.

It's not the suit. In the comics, Ironheart is what Holland's Spider-Man has been in the MCU: a super-nerd who gets Tony's attention by her nerding (admittedly partly because she's fucking around with a suit design) and whom he decides to invest in (very much along the lines of "here's a bunch of money and also here's my AI brain after I died and here's my help with MIT etc".

If that's not MCU Ironheart, I'll be curious to see what she actually is.