f13.net

With Brian Misoda. The lead writer of the first game. And Chris Avallone.

This can't end up anything but a well written and bug ridden masterpiece with no proper ending!

Trailer here: https://youtu.be/SYvWfDxhm_s

Paradox  :uhrr:

(https://items.gog.com/project_frasier/new_edition_comparison_chart.jpg)


24 hrs early access. Let me grab my top hat and monocle  :grin:

As long as it isn't going to be an Epic Store Exclusive, I'm going to have to get this.

Loved Masquerade, loved/hated Bloodlines depending on the community patches

Still have my WoTC V:TES cards :D

I just hope they won't go too far into the politically correct with this game after all that's happened with White Wolf (https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/16/18098929/white-wolf-controversy-paradox-interactive-new-ceo) since the original had content which some might be considered problematic today.

Paradox games don't go out of their way to shock or offend but I've never seen them being awkwardly PC either.

OMG

I think I just nerdgasmed.

Nice in depth article here: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/03/22/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-preview/ (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/03/22/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-preview/)

Avellone and Mitsoda are both back.

GoG and Steam. Fortunately I have the money I put aside for Phoenix Point that is now getting dumped into Bloodlines 2 instead :)

I preordered the deluxe edition.  Fucking be there.

Cara Ellison is a senior writer in this.

I'll save my pennies for this, too.


Cinched it!   :awesome_for_real:

It knocked Diablo out of the bestseller slot on GoG, even though it costs eight times as much and isn't out yet.  And was released during a sale when most of the rest of the catalog is discounted.

So hyped for this.  The original is one of those games I install on every new computer and just keep poking around in every now and then.

Isn't it still a year out?

Q1 2020 (Steam says March 2020), so plenty of time to (pre)order it. It's not like they will run out of digital copies.

No love for VTM: Redemption  :cry:

I kind of dislike Redemption, honestly.  The story was pretty dicey in places (the romance plot was just ughhhhh...) but what killed it for me was the gameplay.  Combat was hugely random, sometimes you'd kill someone in one hit and sometimes you'd miss five attacks in a row.  The combat mechanics weren't super well explained and seemed unbalanced, something like half of your stats didn't seem to do anything except maybe influence a discipline or two in vague, unexplained ways.  And I never could figure out how to beat the final boss without cheesing it, the only way I eventually won was by glitching out the pathfinding and pouring four characters worth of ammo in to the thing.

Well I bit. I love vtm and played a little last night. I love that game and just might load it up now.

So, um, if you never played the orginal....does it hold up?  Asking for a friend.

I played the original on release, so it's hard for me to answer objectively without nostalgia goggles on, but I'm consistently surprised with how fun it is.  The actual mechanics are super janky (which makes the later half of the game drag, because it gets more and more combat heavy as things go on) and the graphics are inconsistent (solid conceptual art and overall design, but awful implementation, with animation pops everywhere, vertices assigned to the wrong bone, etc.) but the atmosphere and immersiveness is some of the best out there.

If you're looking for something unique, I'd suggest picking it up when it's on sale, which it currently is in GoG ($5.00 versus $20 on Steam) and the GoG version comes with the latest version of the fan patch that irons out a lot of the glitches and bugs from the original launch (the game is still janky as hell, it just won't crash or render the game unwinnable as much).

If you're looking for a mechanically solid action title to blast enemies in, this is probably not the game you're looking for.

I am probably more interested in it from the RPG side of things.  Anyway, 6.50 for both games on GOG, so what the hell.

If you are interested from the RPG side of things then, without a single doubt, buy it.

I didn't play the original until about a decade after it came out (for no particular reason, I also enjoyed Redemption a lot) and it held up fine.  Just make sure you apply the unofficial patch if it's not being shipped with the game yet as the original game was buggy was hell.

As of today, if you purchase Bloodlines on GOG (dunno about Steam), the UP v10.2 is included (latest unofficial patch is 10.3, but for now it's just a release candidate, available here (https://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-unofficial-patch/downloads/vtmbup103)), no need to tinker with anything else unless you want to enhance some settings (AF, AA, FOV etc.): in that case, the PCGaming Wiki entry is helpful:

https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Vampire:_The_Masquerade_-_Bloodlines

The RPG and story aspects of the original were brilliant, down to your character's clan choice actually affecting the dialogue and story options you are given. Play a Nosferatu and you can't walk around in public without people freaking the fuck out. Play a Malkavian and your dialogue choices sound like you are on LSD. The combat is a bit janky at times (it was done on the Source engine) but the RPG and story aspects were top notch.

Does the GOG installer apply the patch itself or do I need to do it?

Like I said, no need to do anything else.
----------
Just a couple more things: once Bloodlines is installed via GOG Galaxy, clik on the "More" menu next to Play: in the "other" section you have also the choice of playing the original Bloodlines ("Legacy" version) without the unofficial patch (but the latest official patch is already installed).

The unofficial patch GOG already bundles the game with is the "basic" version (only fixes and generic balance changes): there is also a "plus" version that restores cut content, akin to what other modders did with KOTOR II or Arcanum. Dunno if that's also included in the GOG directory or if you have to download it from and external source like moddb.com
----------

Oh, and by the way: I'm actually replaying it right now after 10 years, and for the very first time as a Malkavian. Needless to say, each and every dialogue is fuckin' hilarious  :drill:

Combat is janky and you will have to do a decent amount of it later. Shooting is less janky if you have a high firearms skill and avoid the shitty trap weapons. Shooting will seem underpowered at first but is definitely not underpowered.

There is one section in particular which is just terrible and may make you want to quit(sewer level). And the end game is a bit combat heavy without much downtime (the combat itself isn't bad and its at a point where you should be a combat monster, so its a power romp rather than slog, but there is nothing to break up the combat). There are a number of sections where its not clear at all where to go to progress. You dont get quest markers and the level geometry is not always intuitive.


RPGness holds up pretty well. Its a linear game and there is no farming. You get XP for completing quests so you can just not fight things if you dont want to bother. Except bosses you will have to fight bosses. The dialog is good to great and changes based on your skills(intimidate is under used and seduction is nice but mainly for feeding), humanity(low and high), disciplines(presence, dementia, dominate) as well as clan (malk and minor everyone else)

The story is good to great and the dialog is fantastic

Edit: redemption is bad but enjoyable. The stats are opaque* and its basically all combat. Its designed in the “nwn style” where MP is semi-integrated with the idea that a storyteller could run pnp type games. 

*nothing says what it does. Of the non-physical stats only manipulation(prices), charisma (success rate of some skills), and appearance (success rate of some skills) have effects besides letting you open up skills. The physical stats all have direct combat application

Don't play a Malkavian on your first playthrough, but do play a Malkavian on your second.

If you want to power through your first playthrough, I suggest playing a Tremere. Blood Magic solves a lot of problems with satisfying bloodiness, and you get the best Haven imo. And you know, wizards are stylish.

After that, you can orrr pee whatever you want. The Nosferatu Haven is shitty but otherwise Nozzies are cool, and I never actually played Malkavians.

I feel the call!!

This

I went Ventrue first time through, because suits.

I picked Brujah on my first playthrough because it seemed like sort of the most default option, and built him as a sort of jack-of-all-trades rogue type.  Then I ended up doing one playthrough on each of the seven clans, including once more on Brujah but with a straight up melee brawler build this time.  

I had fun each time (although after my first couple of times through the stupid sewer level I satisfied myself it was never going to be either different or fun and just noclipped it on subsequent playthroughs), but there are basically four kinds of "build" (combat, stealth, magic, talking), so after more than four games you end up with a lot of overlap between your characters.  There wasn't a lot of difference between my fighty Brujah and my fighty Gangrel, nor between my talky Ventrue and my talky Toreador.  But it was definitely cool seeing how many of the missions could be tackled from completely different angles depending on the character build.

If you have played this game at all and not played as a malk you must play again as a malk. It is worth experiencing. I am gonna take the above advice and try trim as I've all ways played bru.

I have played Bloodlines several times. This is always what happens.

1. "I've forgotten what I'm doing and what the controls are. I'll just make a new character."
2. "Oh yeah, I remember chapter 1."
3. "Okay, I've finished chapter 1. The start of chapter 2 is a good place to take a break for a few days."
4. Two years later:  "Oh yeah, Bloodlines! That was fun, I meant to finish that...I've forgotten what I'm doing and what the controls are...."

I think I have five saves, each at least a year apart, at the beginning of chapter 2. And I like the game, I just can't seem to muster the energy to pick it back up once I hit a solid stop point.

The main way I think the sequel could improve on the original would be to cut down "boss battles" and other sections where combat is strictly required.  In the original even if you build yourself mostly around avoiding combat, there are a few sections where you will absolutely need to fight something and it'll be a chore if you don't have a few dots in a suitable weapon.  The giant bat boss fight was my least favorite in this regard, since it requires ranged combat specifically and melee combat is otherwise the more generally fun option IMO.

Indeed, I still remember my first playthhrough with a Carrying-a-Big-Stick Diplomacy Brujah who waltzed through the rest of the game with ease, until he hit a wall with that bat boss.

The namby pamby Elves of Clan Tremere spat on that boss.  :grin:

I'm doing a playthrough now with a Malkavian because my first and only playthrough before was with a Nosferatu. Quite a different experience being able to walk the streets and not skulk in the sewers, as well as the whacked out dialog trees.

My advice is to simply keep the flamethrower around to score cheap damage on bosses. Helps with the Tzimisce and blob thingy as well. But yah, Tremere have the benefit of coming with their own artillery.

This is making me want to do another play through. Maybe in between getting tired of PoE and a new season. Another Malk? I don't think I've done a Malk run in years.

I do this all the time.  It's become way worse since I started buying from Steam.  It makes me very annoyed with myself.

Fired this up a little yesterday.  Answered questions and rolled a Nosferatu.  Decided I didn't want to play in hiding for a first go, so re-rolled into a Malkavian.

Bitch be crazy.

We basically gave you one advice dude.

Hah, I know, but nobody went into depth as to WHY I should not play a Malk.  Besides, it was the answers that decided it for me, and who am I to argue and stuff.

Mostly because a good amount of the unique Malk dialogue requires the context of a previous playthrough in order to appreciate the cleverness that went into it.  A lot of it foreshadows things that will happen later (so those references will either fly over your head or they'll spoil the plot), and there are some great comedy moments that arise from interactions that go exactly the same with every other character but are sent flying off the rails by the Malk.  If you go through those on your first playthrough I imagine they're more confusing than funny.  Which is fine too.

(edit) my favorite of those modified dialogues being the conversation with the cab driver where your entire side of the conversation is "AAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

Ok, thanks.  I might re-roll yet again, haven't made it super far.  Only really just made it past the haunted beach house place, which by the way was quick freaky.  This game would be killer in VR.

IMO, the haunted house bit is arguably one of the best "levels" in gaming of the last twenty years, no kidding. Overral it's shorter, but rivals even some of the best areas in Deus Ex. Great stuff.

It was a really good example of the way to tell story through gameplay rather than exposition.

Looking back on it: does the haunted house quest count as an early example of a walking simulator?

Much love for it here, I would love to play another Christophe Romuald.  I loved everything about that game actually.   Kind of scared of this title though.  It has a lot to live up to and this sort of feels like it came out of nowhere.

Finally did re-roll.  Picked a Toreador because reasons.  Put points in things like Perception, Charisma and Appearance, with a whole lot going into Brawling.  Now that I am comfortable with the mechanics, it took no time at all to get back to where I was and beyond.  I was going along thinking “this is okay, albeit a bit old and janky”, but that changed a bit when I realized Therese had set me up at the diner, and then the cops were on me.  And then imagine my surprise when I went back to save Jeanette, only to discover......yeah, this game is better than I thought initially.  Finished things up and made it down town to meet the Prince, etc., etc.  I already have Brawling up to 4 out of 5, which means I can punch shit into next year.  Does note exactly make it easy mode, because I still have to close the distance.  So working on getting my stealth up as well.

So yeah, really like this game.  Not even entirely sure why. 

I know this is probably going to be a semi spoiler by even asking the question, but who fucking opened it first time through despite being told a million times not to?

*raises hand*

I'm pretty sure I got the Anarch ending the first time through.  I forget if the cutscene for that ending actually shows what happens off-screen or if I found out on my second playthrough.   :drill:

I gotta say the haunted house is the best gaming experience yet. Funcom has tried to do this so many times but this is so much better. It is genius. I know you have got to be a fan to go this far but it is really really good guys. It is the best gaming experience yet as old as it is. Try it and then tell me i am wrong.  And theirs no combat and you can't do it wrong the game will just wait until you do it right and than advance to the next step. You find yourself in the sewers looking for the entrance you got a real fun hour and a half in store for you.

It took me like two minutes to find the entrance to the sewer.  The whole sewer sequence was far less painful than what was being built up here.

Did you obfuscate past everything?

No, I punched bitches in the mouth.  I probably ran past a couple of those powerful monstrosity things, mainly just to save time and ammo, but I still killed most of them. Everything else was fairly easy.  I had a lot of points in strength and brawl at this point, so maybe that was why I thought it was easy.

Brawl and strength is the strongest combo for dealing with them. Many people get there on guns or spells and just... don't have a good time

Come to think of it, I used ranged skills to take out the monstrosities.  I had it fairly well leveled up, but since I never use it I had shitloads of ammo.  Slow down time and unload on them, no big deal.  Melee for everything else.

I'm not so sure anymore they know what they are doing.

They removed Presence as a clan discipline for Brujah. There goes every Brujah I ever played in Pen and Paper.  :awesome_for_real:

The sewers aren't hard, just repetitive and boring.  The first time through isn't bad, and it's kinda fun to pick up the little bit of backstory about how you're going to older and older areas that have been sealed off over the decades, but if you do a bunch of replays it's the one part of the game that there's absolutely no joy in revisiting.

Nah. It preserves different feel between the chosen vamps. It feels wrong for pnp but i think it works better in a game

Removing options seldom makes for a more rounded experience, though. Its the definition of dumbing down. Different feel is creating by adding something (like the Malkavian-only dialog options). If this is needed to distinguish the classes, I dread those things are lacking.

I mean... no it doesn't make for a "well rounded experience" but well rounded experiences are dumb and bad design. You get a well rounded experience by treating each class the same and give them all the same abilities. Its a fucking ideal sphere then. If there was crazy dialogue for everyone then malkavian-only dialogue wouldn't feel as special. Indeed it wouldn't be Malkavian-only...

Presence is a canonical ability for Brujah sure. But its also a canonical ability for Toreador, Set, and Ventrue. If only one of them gets it then those are more differentiated playstyles. It forces you to make a decision which you might not have otherwise made and then forces you to play those two options differently. It prevents convergent/degenerate gameplay from spreading (or even existing in a sense depending on the amount of choice overlap)

This is a problem already solved in the PnP. Disciplines aren't what makes these clans unique. Brujah are prone to frenzy and are easily agitated, that can play out in dalog quite well (up to forced dialog exits and fights if you get the wrong answer that triggers you). Toreador and their fascination for beauty as well. Ventrue feeding restrictions need tougher balancing, but better than removing either Presence or Domination from them (I guess Fortitude is a given since they share it only with the Gangrel and the Ravnos which are possibly all dead at that point in the timeline).

Ultimately the quality of the game doesn't depend on this, but lazy solutions make me wary they might be equally lazy in other regards.

But, and i am not sure if you noticed this, but video games arent pen and paper. And so solving it in pen and paper, where differention is a relative construction compared to the rest of the table, does not solve it for a video game.

My point is that they are solving it worse than in Bloodlines 1.

I'm going to propose that people who either:

a) don't consider pnp to be a game
b) didn't play the original Bloodlines

can't possibly have an informed opinion on the merits of Bloodlines as a pnp adaptation.   :awesome_for_real:

:roll: video game.

Also... did you play Bloodlines? The only thing it keeps from pnp is the setting and dots. (A slight exaggeration but not much of one)

They kept Brujah having Presence.  Check and mate, sir.

So?

This thing was almost cancelled but all go with the new mystery developers apparently...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-10-14-paradox-says-it-almost-cancelled-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-earlier-this-year

Indeed, This Bodes Well™

Sounds in keeping with the spirit of the first game.  Super janky release, fixed by mods and fan patches.

How you feeling about that preorder Sam? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6b6LGubq6I)

Sounds like it's being almost entirely remade. (https://www.pcgamer.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-has-been-quietly-rebuilt-by-dear-esther-developer-the-chinese-room-with-different-gameplay-mechanics-and-rpg-systems/)

All sounds fine.

VtM:B was so good that I feel like I got 10x my money's worth out of it and am therefore fine spending money on even the concept of a sequel.  If an actual game emerges at some point for me to poke at, that's a bonus.  I don't think there's any way it'll live up to the original but it'll be interesting to see what they do with it.

On the one hand sure. On the other, I'm not necessarily going to reward people for just using the name of something I liked, especially since they've ended up firing Brian Mitsoda who worked on the original game, as well other talent that they had like Chris Avellone (made sense to fire him at the time due to harassment accusations, although that ended up being a lot more complicated). There's plenty of V:tM shovelware that gets released every year, and with everything this game his been through they're really going to have to work hard to convince me that they earned any sort of right to call this Bloodlines 2.

I've never quite understood the love for the original, considering how clunky the flow from place to place is--it reminds me of the first Witcher game, where progressing was a challenge just in terms of figuring out where you could actually go and what you could actually do. We're kind of past that now.

Two words. Choices mattered.

In a time where other games were content of making you repeat the same loops over and over again, what you diid actually had consequences in these games. During the game, not in the closing crawl.

Sure, but we weren't 20 years ago when we played this game.

Played now I'd also point out that action elements are shit and the game does a poor job if making the city feel big. But game is twenty years old.

Twenty years before that we were guessing valid commands to type into a zork text adventure. Shit moves on. Doesn't mean the ideas in the old stuff aren't worth following up on.

True enough. I played it obsessively, so I suppose that's why I remember how annoying it was to figure out how to go anywhere, but also yeah, choices mattered, something that even now not that many games do well.