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f13.net General Forums => Movies => Topic started by: SurfD on December 12, 2017, 02:50:19 AM



Title: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: SurfD on December 12, 2017, 02:50:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj8mN_7Apcw

Surprised nobody has started a thread about this yet.

Probably our last chance at ever seeing a decent anime to live action film adaption, and given that it has Cameron attached to it, I have high hopes.

That being said, It should be interesting to see how the drama over the Eyes plays out. Personally, I noticed them, but pretty much tuned it out almost immediately.   Been a long time since I saw the original anime stuff, but my brain is giving me a pretty positive thumbs up over everything in the trailer.   Pretty much the only thing I feel it was missing is glimpse of one of the spinning rings that clean the cables.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Merusk on December 12, 2017, 07:45:08 AM
I have low, if any, because Cameron has been inconsistent at best. His last work as a director and writer was Avatar. While it made boatloads of money and I didn't hate it, I'm not going to say it had depth, consistency, or logical storytelling.

Adapting an anime where subtlety and story always matter? Hmmm. Possibly not.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Shannow on December 12, 2017, 08:29:43 AM
Am I the only one who saw that picture and thought, 'why are they making a movie about the girl from Bioshock II?'


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 12, 2017, 08:57:52 AM
It's like your dad who only ever watched one anime made a movie and said "Well she's got big eyes in the cartoon, so we go with that"


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: HaemishM on December 12, 2017, 10:12:31 AM
Robert Rodriguez is directing it, so I'll give it a shot. Cameron is only producing it. The eyes bugged the fuck out of me, though. There was no reason to do that, IMO. It just looks silly and out of place.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: kaid on December 12, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
I kinda get what they were trying for but given that nothing else appears to have the creepy eyes it is just silly and distracting. I think the biggest issue is they are big enough to actually distort the skull appearance which just hammers my uncanny valley buttons.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Teleku on December 12, 2017, 10:42:23 AM
Yeah.... I don't mind the eye thing in practice.  I mean, she is some weird robot thing and it helps hammer that home.  But it just uncanny valleys her way to much, though that's honestly a minor quibble overall.

Trailer was ok, and with the names attached I have higher hopes.  But could easily see it being another bland generic anime adaptation (looking at you Ghost in the Shell).


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Threash on December 12, 2017, 02:26:11 PM
That's the girl from Man Seeking Woman, lol. Looks decent enough apart from the eye thing. None of the other weird robots had weird eyes.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Father mike on December 12, 2017, 02:39:51 PM
This is going to be Ghost in the Shell - part II.  The weird body horror stuff that made the manga noteworthy might make a decent art-house flick.  But it's never going to be a decent blockbuster.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: MediumHigh on December 12, 2017, 03:28:01 PM
I think the creepy anime eyes/face was good design wise. For that series its pretty obvious that the "girl" in question isn't human and not just fap material. I'm not particularly attached to this, I didn't see anything to glaring. Does prompt me to rematch the source material.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 12, 2017, 03:37:25 PM
I think the creepy anime eyes/face was good design wise. For that series its pretty obvious that the "girl" in question isn't human and not just fap material. I'm not particularly attached to this, I didn't see anything to glaring. Does prompt me to rematch the source material.

In the actual source material nothing about her face is supposed to be robotic though. She's not supposed to look like some weird outsider until you see the robot parts.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: MediumHigh on December 12, 2017, 03:43:46 PM
I think the creepy anime eyes/face was good design wise. For that series its pretty obvious that the "girl" in question isn't human and not just fap material. I'm not particularly attached to this, I didn't see anything to glaring. Does prompt me to rematch the source material.

In the actual source material nothing about her face is supposed to be robotic though. She's not supposed to look like some weird outsider until you see the robot parts.

Yeah I remember that. I mean as a design choice I can forgive that (also removes the whole "scarlet joe playing an asian girl drawn to the specification of a multicultural sex bot" ) maybe I'm too broken to expect them to go 100% source material.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: satael on February 13, 2018, 10:59:23 AM
This was going to be released on July 20, 2018 but has now been pushed back to December 21, 2018. (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/922167-fox-pushes-back-alita-and-the-predator-dates-branaghs-death-on-the-nile)
Can't be good news when it gets pushed back that much at this point but I really hope it's going to be more of a Ghost in a Shell (meh) than Dragonball (total wreck).


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: MediumHigh on February 13, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
So read 9 volumes of this. It'll take a colossal effort to fuck this up. But I wouldn't put it past Hollywood. Also a movie pushed back a few months isn't nearly as bad as a movie pushed back several years.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Riggswolfe on February 13, 2018, 04:44:49 PM
This was going to be released on July 20, 2018 but has now been pushed back to December 21, 2018. (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/922167-fox-pushes-back-alita-and-the-predator-dates-branaghs-death-on-the-nile)
Can't be good news when it gets pushed back that much at this point but I really hope it's going to be more of a Ghost in a Shell (meh) than Dragonball (total wreck).

If I had to take a guess I think it's one of two things:

1) They needed to do more visual effects work and didn't want a "Henry Cavill's face looks distorted" mess on their hands or
2) They got nervous about the big eyes and decided to redo all of the shots with them.

Either way, I think it's to give the special effects guys more time.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: BobtheSomething on February 15, 2018, 11:26:10 PM
On the one hand, I want them to stick to their guns and keep the uncanny eyes.  On the other hand, everyone I know refused to see The Spielberg's BFG because the giant looked creepy weird.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Riggswolfe on February 18, 2018, 02:24:08 AM
On the one hand, I want them to stick to their guns and keep the uncanny eyes.  On the other hand, everyone I know refused to see The Spielberg's BFG because the giant looked creepy weird.

I was interested in the movie until I saw the eyes. They just pull me right out of each scene she is in in the trailer.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Goumindong on February 18, 2018, 04:21:49 PM
On the one hand, I want them to stick to their guns and keep the uncanny eyes.  On the other hand, everyone I know refused to see The Spielberg's BFG because the giant looked creepy weird.

I was interested in the movie until I saw the eyes. They just pull me right out of each scene she is in in the trailer.

^^

The eyes are terrible. A purposeless callback to the anime art style. Maybe if all the robots had massive eyes it wouldn't be so bad. But as it stands it looks bad and pulls me out of the scene.



Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: MediumHigh on February 18, 2018, 11:17:34 PM
Can't complain about white washing when your character's don't look human.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: TheWalrus on February 19, 2018, 05:45:26 PM
Dear sweet fuck, that's awful looking. Why didn't someone in production speak up?


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Typhon on February 19, 2018, 06:29:57 PM
I liked it.  He found her head and torso in a dump.  Where did he find the eyes?  I enjoy that the way she looks prevents you from settling into, "just a bad-ass little girl with mechanical arms".  My take is that the intention was to deposit you firmly in the uncanny valley.

Pretty surprised that f13 has folks that are unsettled by that.   ...  Yes, I just called you pussies.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: TheWalrus on February 19, 2018, 06:35:55 PM
Not unsettled, just that it looks shit.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: HaemishM on February 19, 2018, 09:08:20 PM
Not unsettled, just that it looks shit.

Pretty much this. It's SO over the top and out of place in what otherwise looks visually tight.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 20, 2018, 11:45:09 AM
I liked it.  He found her head and torso in a dump.  Where did he find the eyes?  I enjoy that the way she looks prevents you from settling into, "just a bad-ass little girl with mechanical arms".  My take is that the intention was to deposit you firmly in the uncanny valley.

Pretty surprised that f13 has folks that are unsettled by that.   ...  Yes, I just called you pussies.

You know it was a manga and then and anime right? This thing has a pretty big fan base built in and the big eyes are almost universally regarded as shit by them as well.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Typhon on February 20, 2018, 06:08:40 PM
Nope, never heard of it, didn't research it.  Clicked on the link, thought I understood what they were going for, gave them the benefit of the doubt.

As far as, "looks terrible", I grew up on original Godzilla and King Kong.  Golden Age of Sinbad being the high water mark, which I still love to this day.  I just have a different tolerance for special effects which extends to today.  My daughter bitches (often) about 'horrible CGI! WTF!?', and my response is, "seriously, and you love Evil Dead"?  I try to get what they're going for and mostly just give whoever a pass.

All this revisionist, Hammer is great! but current CGI is horrible, is just bullshit.  Hammer was great for the time, but compared to even bad CGI now, it's awful.

"Visually tight" - arms did not look visually tight to me, especially when she was moving/examining her hand.  So my brain said, "alright, they didn't exactly pull it off, but I get what they are going for.  The movie will have to carry itself with characterization and plot, still could be good".


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: BobtheSomething on February 20, 2018, 07:56:46 PM
It seems odd to me to judge special effects only for their verisimilitude.  Rather than compare effects by what looks more "realistic" I think we should judge them by how enjoyable they are or what they add to the movie.  By that measure, I tend to prefer stop motion or old Hammer effects far more than half-assed CGI, even if the CGI looks better.  That's also the difference between Pacific Rim and Transformers for me; in one film, the robots were fun to watch, and the other was Transformers.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 21, 2018, 08:15:21 AM
I posted a whole thing but hit the back button...I'll just leave this here.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qnYAAOSwjRpZTCVx/s-l300.jpg)


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: Typhon on February 21, 2018, 07:58:51 PM
It seems odd to me to judge special effects only for their verisimilitude.  Rather than compare effects by what looks more "realistic" I think we should judge them by how enjoyable they are or what they add to the movie.  By that measure, I tend to prefer stop motion or old Hammer effects far more than half-assed CGI, even if the CGI looks better.  That's also the difference between Pacific Rim and Transformers for me; in one film, the robots were fun to watch, and the other was Transformers.

My post - "alright, they didn't exactly pull it off, but I get what they are going for.  The movie will have to carry itself with characterization and plot, still could be good", I take as the same thing as what you said in yellow - "movie is the sum of it's parts, not just the effects". 

Where we differ is what you said in green.  I think that people think that is what they like (older special effects), but it's really nostalgia plus glorifying older movies AND the producer/director/effects person putting their soul into the work.  Golden Age of Sinbad didn't have a good script, or acting, or cinematography (I actually don't know this last part is true for the time, maybe they had good cinematography, and I'm just assuming they didn't because these movies were always made on a budget).  It had good effects for the time and a maniacal passion from the director/special effects man to show something otherworldly.  I think to an extent that shines through.  I think whatever soul Michael Bay had died or left some time ago and that also shines through.


Title: Re: Battle Angel Alita
Post by: BobtheSomething on February 21, 2018, 08:19:40 PM
It seems odd to me to judge special effects only for their verisimilitude.  Rather than compare effects by what looks more "realistic" I think we should judge them by how enjoyable they are or what they add to the movie.  By that measure, I tend to prefer stop motion or old Hammer effects far more than half-assed CGI, even if the CGI looks better.  That's also the difference between Pacific Rim and Transformers for me; in one film, the robots were fun to watch, and the other was Transformers.

My post - "alright, they didn't exactly pull it off, but I get what they are going for.  The movie will have to carry itself with characterization and plot, still could be good", I take as the same thing as what you said in yellow - "movie is the sum of it's parts, not just the effects".  

Where we differ is what you said in green.  I think that people think that is what they like (older special effects), but it's really nostalgia plus glorifying older movies AND the producer/director/effects person putting their soul into the work.  Golden Age of Sinbad didn't have a good script, or acting, or cinematography (I actually don't know this last part is true for the time, maybe they had good cinematography, and I'm just assuming they didn't because these movies were always made on a budget).  It had good effects for the time and a maniacal passion from the director/special effects man to show something otherworldly.  I think to an extent that shines through.  I think whatever soul Michael Bay had died or left some time ago and that also shines through.

No, I think you are saying the same thing I was implying.  The Golden Voyage of Sinbad will always be remembered for scenes like the Kali sword fight.  The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad is my favorite because all the actors ham it up, so you can enjoy the scenes without special effects almost as much as the effects scenes, but still, the special effects scenes stand out because of the care and craft, the passion.  The Cyclops vs Dragon scene would never fool any audience into believing it was real, but it's damn fun to watch.  Clash of the Titans and Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger have some great special effects scenes that elevate otherwise terrible films.  CGI Clash of the Titans is just completely forgettable even though the special effects are technically "better".

For old, low budget horror films, the effects work better if only because the actors can sell them better.  Seeing the actors Interacting with a shitty rubber suit adds a sense of reality/vitality/threat to the effect that no amount of CGI Van Helsing monsters can capture.