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Title: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on December 08, 2017, 08:06:14 AM
It might be fun for the kids but it can be carnage on the roads.  Even a snow state like Minnesota can have problems and we are geared up for and used to the snow.  How is everyone affected doing?


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Chimpy on December 08, 2017, 08:10:08 AM
WTF? I am in Telluride Colorado right now and the only snow they have seen this year is man made.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on December 08, 2017, 08:20:49 AM
Snow is being reported from Mexico through Texas and Louisiana and the rest of the South.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: schild on December 08, 2017, 08:26:20 AM
Austin and San Antonio got snow, not sure about Houston yet.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Merusk on December 08, 2017, 09:43:31 AM
This is normal. This is all perfectly normal. Nothing to see here. Move along.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: HaemishM on December 08, 2017, 09:43:35 AM
What is this marvelous thing? (https://www.instagram.com/p/BcclU1FlZ5_)

That was my street this morning. Crazy great 2-3 inches of snow. Somehow, the entire city hasn't shut down like I expected.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Teleku on December 08, 2017, 09:48:32 AM
Ironically, this is my first winter in 5 years where I have not been subjected to snow and sub zero temperatures.  Huzzah!


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Gimfain on December 08, 2017, 10:07:43 AM
Less than 48 hours since we had -20, had bunch of snow yesterday and today, tomorrow some of it will melt and its back to icy hell we had 10 days ago. Fuck winter.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Teleku on December 08, 2017, 11:02:45 AM
I'm heading to Koh Samui Island in 1.5 weeks to hang out for a few days.  Remind me to post a smug picture from there.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on December 08, 2017, 02:34:25 PM
Weather advisory came out at 4am Eastern.  Some saw it and reacted, like my son's school that called me at 5:30 to tell me classes were canceled.  Then there were the public schools....


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: MisterNoisy on December 08, 2017, 03:12:37 PM
Been 40F all day today with rain.  Supposed to get below freezing tonight, so maybe we'll have snow for the first time in 30+ years.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Ceryse on December 08, 2017, 03:14:51 PM
Meanwhile, here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.. we're struggling to drop below freezing and all our snow and ice has been melting away for a couple weeks, and will continue to do so for awhile. As someone who likes cold weather this winter has been incredibly annoying; very rarely has it even been cold enough to need a light winter jacket beyond the first couple weeks we got snow.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Rendakor on December 08, 2017, 06:20:49 PM
Whatever hit you guys is hitting the northeast tonight/tomorrow. Forecasts are between 1"-3" and 4"-8" so who knows.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Fabricated on December 09, 2017, 03:06:07 PM
I live in Indiana. We get snow and ice every year but about everyone here acts like they've never driven in it before and everyone crashes all over.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Mandella on December 09, 2017, 10:34:00 PM
Well this is lovely. I've been without power for a day.

Tomorrow, we eat the dogs.

(Or they eat us.)


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: rattran on December 10, 2017, 07:47:30 AM
Well this is lovely. I've been without power for a day.

Tomorrow, we eat the dogs.

(Or they eat us.)
I always keep enough cat food, people food water, and butane for the portable stove around for a week without power in the winter. Propane for emergency heat would become more of an issue after a couple days but that's unlikely here. Even outside Atlanta back in the terrible storm of I think winter '95 they had power back up after a couple days (from a couple inches of snow)


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Ginaz on December 10, 2017, 01:31:11 PM
You Americans took all of our snow.  Make Canada White Again!  Err...umm...


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Mandella on December 10, 2017, 01:34:51 PM
We're actually okay. I start the winter with a year's supply of propane, and our shelves are always stocked with plenty of food.

It's just the power out that's an annoyance, and that wouldn't be so bad if I weren't too cheap to buy another generator.

This was a weird storm though, even by West Georgia standards. I may write more about it tonight, but right now that power's back on I gotta catch up with my afternoon video game playtime...


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Sky on December 11, 2017, 09:18:24 AM
I'd be good for a couple months without power, though I'd have to stock up on water and food after a couple weeks. Wood stove is magical, heat and cooking.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Shannow on December 11, 2017, 11:25:17 AM
8 inches up in MA on Sunday. I promptly blew a tire driving to work Monday morning. 17 years living here and I never get a flat tire in the summer. Fuck you winter.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on December 11, 2017, 03:59:39 PM
I get a lot of flak from my coworkers in MA regarding winter weather.  I got at least 11" measurable with a ruler, lost power for +60 hours (will see if I have power tonight) and I still get smug remarks.  What's up with that state?


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Sky on December 11, 2017, 10:43:11 PM
Same as the rest of the northeast, snow is not a big deal until you talk multiple feet in a single storm. They're calling for 15" tonight, just means I need to break out the snowblower tomorrow. Not a big deal.

In the city it's rare to lose power for more than a couple hours, but when I lived in the country it was normal to lose power for three days from snow or wind.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Shannow on December 12, 2017, 08:28:35 AM
I get a lot of flak from my coworkers in MA regarding winter weather.  I got at least 11" measurable with a ruler, lost power for +60 hours (will see if I have power tonight) and I still get smug remarks.  What's up with that state?

Don't get Schild started.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on December 12, 2017, 10:17:03 AM
Anyone here have a residential backup generator?  Starting research on those.  The gasoline-powered ones are trash and I'm done with them.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Viin on December 12, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
I've been looking at them too, but I decided that a simple gas one would work to run our boiler to heat the house - the piped to the natural gas line ones are pretty spiffy though (not that I have room for one in my yard..).


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on December 12, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
I'm dealing with people who want to do relatively-normal things during an outage, but more practically I want to keep the refrigerators and freezer running.  I plugged the internet gateway into a small inverter in my car and that kept them quiet for a good while, but now I have two refrigerators to clean out.

I poked at my electric bill and a peak was ~212 kWh one day in December.  This divides out to almost 9 kW and so I'm looking at a 10 Kw standby.  Naturally I don't plan to run both HVAC units during an outage, so there should be some headroom.

The three main players seem to be Generac, Kohler, and Cummins.  The Cummins prices seem pretty high.  Kohler is a bit higher priced than Generac and overall they seem to be pretty close by comparison.  I'll have to decide if I want to buy a lower-priced Generac and hope that I don't later wish I had gotten a Kohler, or get a Kohler and forget about the money.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Sky on December 12, 2017, 02:49:22 PM
I've always just put the stuff in a cooler in the garage when the power goes out. Add ice/snow if needed.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: MahrinSkel on December 12, 2017, 02:55:23 PM
For an occasional residential emergency NG/propane fueled power supply, Generac should be fine. Kohler is also decent, although I believe Generac's are easier to install and service (either yourself, or finding someone who can handle them). Cummins is really selling the low end of their remote power solutions as residential backups, they'll be reliable as hell if you are needing a solution for several weeks to a few months, but overkill for most residential needs.

--Dave


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Druzil on December 12, 2017, 03:15:16 PM
I've looked into generators a few times but never pulled the trigger.  There were quite a few costs I was not expecting.   Like some generators have built in transfer switches and some don't so you may need to have one installed.  Also there are different kinds of switches, some give you more control than others and cost more.  You might also need a sub-panel installed.  Depending on where you live, you may need a cold weather installation and/or have a concrete pad to put it on.

I keep thinking about getting one though.  I have the perfect place on the side of the house for one and it would be really nice.  Pricey, but nice.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Trippy on December 12, 2017, 03:18:16 PM
212 kWh a day? Are you growing weed or something? Average Georgia home electricity consumption is about 38 kWh a day according to the chart on this page:

http://insideenergy.org/2014/05/22/using-energy-how-much-electricity-do-you-use-each-month/


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on December 12, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
I'm not your average bear.  Also that was a peak, the average over the month will be much less.  Presumably someone jacked up the thermostat and the emergency heat came on.  If I plan for this amount then I should be fine.  The Generac 7.5kW is $1949 while the 11kW is $3109, so why not drop another $1160?  I'd just spend that money on Destiny 2 DLC or something equally dumb.

Added costs beyond the installation labor include adding a new LP tank.  I have a 120 gallon one that would probably last at least 36 hours assuming the generator wasn't running at full load all the time, but for added no-shits-given I'd like to get something larger.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Viin on December 12, 2017, 05:29:13 PM
Sounds like a big project. I just wanna pipe natural gas (that never seems disrupted) to a generator that can power my boiler to kick on and flick through zones - like Sky, its usually freezing outside when the power goes so the garage is a good place for perishable food. But the house gets damn cold too.

I did look at a system that uses the ground to store heat/cold for a 4 season greenhouse that only uses fans to move air around: https://www.ceresgs.com/climate-control/gaht/


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: MahrinSkel on December 12, 2017, 07:10:49 PM
I'm not your average bear.  Also that was a peak, the average over the month will be much less.  Presumably someone jacked up the thermostat and the emergency heat came on.  If I plan for this amount then I should be fine.  The Generac 7.5kW is $1949 while the 11kW is $3109, so why not drop another $1160?  I'd just spend that money on Destiny 2 DLC or something equally dumb.

Added costs beyond the installation labor include adding a new LP tank.  I have a 120 gallon one that would probably last at least 36 hours assuming the generator wasn't running at full load all the time, but for added no-shits-given I'd like to get something larger.
The Generac's under 9K are mostly the same as their RV generators, and not nearly as reliable. They don't, for example, come standard with the controls to auto-start once a month (to maintain the stator magnets). Yeah, spend the extra $1160.

--Dave


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Mandella on December 13, 2017, 05:24:02 PM
This storm was weird. We really haven't even had a hard freeze yet this year, and the daytime temperature was still well above freezing while the snow was driving down. Thus our dirt road became a slushy long mudhole, and trees were falling all over from the combination of ice buildup on the branches and saturated wet soil not holding on to the roots. Putting frozen food outside to protect it was not a great option in this storm since the daytime temps stayed in the forties (I still did it for the refrigerator freezer -- my upright stayed closed and cold.)

We were lucky here, with our power back on in 26 hours.

I look at built in generators every time this happens, but I still just don't like the economics of it. We really only have an extended outage every four or five years, and I'm just not sure it's worth it. A portable model is tempting, and I think I'm going to get one just to hook up to water and essentials, with the added benefit that I can throw it in the back of the truck and take it places away from the house where I might need power.

Wish solar was a better option here, but unless I want to put panels in the front yard we just don't have good sun exposure at the house. All those darn nice shady trees...


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Polysorbate80 on December 13, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
The thing with the portables is that you need to be able to either plug whatever you're powering directly into the generator, or have a switch and subpanel installed so you don't backfeed the utility lines--if you kill the linemen working on the poles, you'll never get your utility power back  :why_so_serious:  Or yourself-if that generator doesn't automatically cut off from your electrical system when the utility power comes back on, it will explode when IT's backfed.

For permanent installations, also consider if you need only 110 or whether you need 220, and whether the equipment you're powering has any large surge draw, such as starting a locked rotor on a heating/cooling system.  The system won't need to deliver that peak draw all the time but it needs to handle it when it's demanded.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Teleku on December 24, 2017, 11:32:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ImwrRf7.jpg)

Almost forgot!


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Surlyboi on December 24, 2017, 12:15:38 PM
Right back at ya.

(https://i.imgur.com/bJmKrvsr.jpg)



Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on December 24, 2017, 01:18:50 PM
 :mob:


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Surlyboi on December 24, 2017, 03:26:59 PM
FWIW, my pic was taken in November, itís kind of overcast and shitty in the Central Valley right now.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Teleku on December 24, 2017, 11:24:46 PM
Mine was taken a few days ago.  :p

Also, why in gods name are you in the Central Valley?  You didn't marry inland did you!?


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Surlyboi on December 25, 2017, 01:43:37 PM
Super inland. But sheís been a NYC woman for almost 20 years now, so all is good. Iím just deep in Nunesstan right now.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Teleku on December 26, 2017, 11:32:53 AM
Oh man, Fresno?   :ye_gods:

Mind you, I was born and raised in LaMalfalbania.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Trippy on December 26, 2017, 12:04:39 PM
At least it's not Bakersfield.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Surlyboi on December 26, 2017, 12:09:35 PM
I had some pretty decent chilaquiles and a solid milkshake at the Moo Creamery in Bakersfield the other day, it's not all bad.

The in-laws are Fresburg adjacent.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on January 04, 2018, 10:36:22 AM
This seems like a fine place to post this:
http://weather.cod.edu/satrad/exper/?parms=regional-northeast-02-48-1-100


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: HaemishM on January 04, 2018, 11:28:50 AM
Is that a Snow-icane?


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Jade Falcon on January 04, 2018, 01:07:59 PM
Is that a Snow-icane?

Yes it is. Northerners, you'll need your big coat.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on January 04, 2018, 01:22:12 PM
Is that a Snow-icane?

Yes it is. Northerners, you'll need your big coat.

Itís been fucking cold up here in Minnesota.  Itís pretty bad when you  look forward to just single digits below zero.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Jade Falcon on January 04, 2018, 01:28:21 PM
I'm in Northern Ontario, It's -40c with windchill today so I feel your pain. It's calling for -19 Saturday and we're looking forward to it.



Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on January 04, 2018, 02:04:09 PM
I'm in Northern Ontario, It's -40c with windchill today so I feel your pain. It's calling for -19 Saturday and we're looking forward to it.



We like to say Minnesotans are tough but you guys are hard as old leather.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: HaemishM on January 04, 2018, 02:12:18 PM
I am an utter pussy when it comes to cold. We're going to struggle to get to the high 30's until Saturday, and I'm currently sitting here in my office with a coat on, and have worn an undershirt twice this week for the first time since I was a kid. So three layers there plus my fingerless gloves to keep my digits warm. Fuck a bunch of this cold.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Jade Falcon on January 04, 2018, 02:29:50 PM
The trick is finding the balance between the first and second stage of hypothermia. Once you've settled in to it and the burning stops it's not so bad at least until you come inside. When I was still driving and working outside we'd leave the heaters off so we'd stay numb between job sites.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: 01101010 on January 04, 2018, 02:50:25 PM
Is that a Snow-icane?

Yes it is. Northerners, you'll need your big coat.

Itís been fucking cold up here in Minnesota.  Itís pretty bad when you  look forward to just single digits below zero.

I work with two sites up in Minnesota... I don't envy you guys at all and I'm freezing my ass off in the single digits ABOVE freezing.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Threash on January 04, 2018, 03:42:20 PM
Was 32 this morning when i left for work in fucking central Florida, my fucking car was fucking frozen solid and i couldn't open it. I am not equipped to handle this shit.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on January 04, 2018, 06:37:48 PM
The forecast is for the upper-20s and low-30s Sunday through Thursday.  That's a break and like the sultry breezes of summer for us.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Jade Falcon on January 05, 2018, 02:14:33 PM
Fuck Winter (https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/windchill-values-of-minus-40-to-minus-48-expected-tonight-saturday-morning-805794)

Forecast tonight is windchills from -40 to -48   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: HaemishM on January 05, 2018, 02:55:51 PM
Fuck a bunch of that.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: MisterNoisy on January 06, 2018, 03:41:04 PM
Woo - we're past the freezing nonsense, so I get to wash the car tomorrow.  Many thanks for small blessings.  :)


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on January 06, 2018, 07:37:03 PM
Fuck Winter (https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/windchill-values-of-minus-40-to-minus-48-expected-tonight-saturday-morning-805794)

Forecast tonight is windchills from -40 to -48   :ye_gods:

I feel your pain.  The coldest air temp Iíve experienced in the past decade has been -38 F and that was pure murder.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: kaid on January 08, 2018, 10:09:24 AM
Fuck Winter (https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/windchill-values-of-minus-40-to-minus-48-expected-tonight-saturday-morning-805794)

Forecast tonight is windchills from -40 to -48   :ye_gods:

I feel your pain.  The coldest air temp Iíve experienced in the past decade has been -38 F and that was pure murder.

If you start getting to those temps you are getting in the hurts to breath level of temps. At that level it is best to just not go outside unless you cannot avoid it. Taking your car anywhere is problematic because at that temp there is a good chance of it just not starting if it is let to sit for any period of time.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on January 10, 2018, 08:27:44 PM
I want to know how you guys keep your pipes from freezing.  And bursting.  I guess the bursting is what we want to avoid, mostly.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: MahrinSkel on January 10, 2018, 08:34:08 PM
I want to know how you guys keep your pipes from freezing.  And bursting.  I guess the bursting is what we want to avoid, mostly.

Heat tape, and burying the pipes at least 4 feet below ground. Severe freezes, you'll leave the tap open just a bit, to keep the water flowing past the cold spots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trace_heating (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trace_heating)

--Dave


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: kaid on January 11, 2018, 03:40:15 PM
I want to know how you guys keep your pipes from freezing.  And bursting.  I guess the bursting is what we want to avoid, mostly.

Depends where you live. In wisconsin generally stuff is buried deeply enough that generally it is not a problem. And the house generally won't freeze pipes in all but the worst of winters. There have been a few years where the frost depth was getting low enough like the polar vortex year where the water company told everybody just run a thin stream of water out of one faucet until the temps came back up again. As long as there is some running water it is unlikely you will have a pipe freeze.

I do highly recommend outdoor water faucet insulated covers though that is one issue that does get people from time to time.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Johny Cee on January 11, 2018, 04:29:19 PM
I want to know how you guys keep your pipes from freezing.  And bursting.  I guess the bursting is what we want to avoid, mostly.

Most plumbing is either buried below the frost line (depth depends on locality/climate), or is inside behind your insulation.  Older homes and cheap homes (including trailers and cheap apartments) have issues with plumbing predating modern practices, or predating modern standards for insulation, and can have pipe bursting issues when you have extreme cold. 

Anything you aren't going to heat year round you make sure to turn off the water and drain the system, usually combined with flushing antifreeze through what you can't drain.


Basically, there is a huge difference between how residential is built and designed in Northern climes, and what you folks do in the South.  Wall thickness, insulation, use of vapor barriers (Tyvek,etc), cellar versus slabs for foundations (foundations also need to be below the frostline, or designed to account for drainage underneath), where your hookups are, etc. 

Southern building seems to be in the stone age sometimes...  Just adding Northern style cellars (where the water line allows it) and insulation would do wonders for the ease of cooling, though it is really expensive up front.  Also shit like properly venting their attic/crawl spaces and maintaining vented area between roofs and living areas.  In the North, you have to do it otherwise you have issues with ice dams and melt running where it shouldn't.  In the South, seems like you guys like to have a great big asphalt thermal absorber pumping heat into your house. 


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: 01101010 on January 11, 2018, 08:51:30 PM
So today in Pittsburgh-land... was 65, currently 60 and we are under a winter storm warning for tomorrow - 6-8" of snow and 1/4" of ice by Saturday afternoon and in the 20s all weekend. Next weekend, 40s... :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: HaemishM on January 12, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
Here in Mississippi, it's been dreary and rainy but warm for the last two days. This morning, it drops to the mid-30's with rain and there were even little sleety/snowy flurries out my back door before I went to work. The high doesn't look to get much higher than 35 today. Unfortunately, it'll be sunny and clear with highs in the 40's all weekend. Fuck you cold, the least you could do is snow.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Brolan on January 12, 2018, 10:08:14 AM
Just flew into Atlanta from Minneapolis, on the way to Puerto Rico.  Left -8 for 81 above.  Iím not sure my body can take the change.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: 01101010 on January 12, 2018, 10:13:02 AM
58 when I went to work this morning, weather reports say low of 16 tonight.

This reminded on one year in Undergrad, we had a party for Halloween - one of those weekends. Saturday it was in the 70s during the day as we decorated and prepped the house. Evening was in the 50s and then as the party was roaring around 12:20 it started snowing. After we closed the party at 2 there was 4 inches of snow and it was in the upper 20s. That was somewhere in the mid 90s and I thought I'd never see something like that again.

Obviously I was not correct.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Ceryse on January 12, 2018, 12:57:39 PM
Meanwhile, here in Alberta, I've been spending an unfortunate amount of time outside the past few days where it's been reaching -45įC - -52įC (-49 F - -61 F). I like the cold, but this has been less than ideal (I like my winters in the -10įC - -30įC range). And we'll be swinging up near freezing next week; been getting wild swings for most of the winter; bitter cold, above freezing, bitter cold, above freezing, and so on).


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Samwise on January 12, 2018, 04:21:10 PM
No snow on the California coast yet, but down south around Santa Barbara they're being flooded out.  Apparently our increasingly intense cycles of heavy rain followed by scorching heat followed by more heavy rain is not conducive to the ground staying in one place.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Yegolev on January 15, 2018, 10:51:18 AM
Southern building seems to be in the stone age sometimes...

Agree, and I'm dealing with an existing structure.  Doing some smart things now will be very expensive.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: Mandella on January 15, 2018, 11:32:42 AM

Southern building seems to be in the stone age sometimes...  Just adding Northern style cellars (where the water line allows it) and insulation would do wonders for the ease of cooling, though it is really expensive up front.  Also shit like properly venting their attic/crawl spaces and maintaining vented area between roofs and living areas.  In the North, you have to do it otherwise you have issues with ice dams and melt running where it shouldn't.  In the South, seems like you guys like to have a great big asphalt thermal absorber pumping heat into your house. 

To be fair, traditional southern building certainly does include cellars (we call them basements) and vented attics. But I do agree that the current cheapass methods of construction don't.

*Shrug*

Don't know if shitty construction is particularly a southern thing now, but I do know if you are in the south and you want something built, either go with a trusted old timer or watch them like a hawk (or both). Might as well do it yourself, considering the time you need to spend on-site making sure things are going in to spec.


Title: Re: Snow in the South
Post by: HaemishM on January 15, 2018, 11:36:06 AM
At least in Mississippi adherence to the already lax-as-fuck building codes has always been spotty to say the least. Lazy as fuck would be more accurate.

The South in general is just one big natural disaster away from total devastation. Some areas come pre-devastated.