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f13.net General Forums => Gaming => Topic started by: Druzil on May 22, 2017, 12:56:06 PM



Title: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on May 22, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
Dead Cells - Currently $16 on Steam Early Access
http://store.steampowered.com/app/588650/Dead_Cells/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/588650/Dead_Cells/)

Dead Cells is a 2D action-platformer / rogue-lite, currently in early access.  Much in the same vein as Rogue Legacy the game is run based with persistent upgrades that make your future runs easier allowing you to make it deeper into the castle.  The map, weapons and even doors are reminiscent of some of the 2D Castlevania games.  The game has a pixel art style with some bloom effects that really make it look great.

One of my favorite parts of the game is the combat and the feel of the game.  There are a variety of movement skills such as double jump, ground smash, ledge grabs and a dodge roll.  There's also a variety of weapons and styles to play around with.  You can use a short ranged daggers with high combo damage or a long range whip with lower damage along with various traps, spells, bows and shields.  The enemies will charge at you forcing you to block or will employ various kinds of shields requiring you to dodge behind them or stun them.

The game also incorporates some Souls games elements.  Killing enemies causes them to occasionally drop 'cells' (souls) that you collect through your run and are used as the permanent upgrade currency.  However to spend them you have to survive to the next area.  Occasionally you will run across other other powers that will enable different routes or shortcuts through the castle.  There's also a gem like currency used for opening treasure doors and spending at Spelunky-like shops.

One knock against the game is that currently reuses many of the same enemies as you progress through the areas.  It does introduce some new ones as well, but the old ones seem to stick around.  Also although there is a Rogue Legacy style upgrade tree, it doesn't look nearly as big or have as much variety.  Hopefully their goal for getting out of early access is to just increase the variety across the board.  More enemies, more weapons, more upgrades.

These are just my initial impressions but I like the game quite a bit so far.  That said, I'm only about 2-3 hours in.  Whether or not there's enough game for the full price at the moment, I'm not sure yet.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Fabricated on June 25, 2017, 06:05:04 PM
I picked this up and it's really good. Controls are tight, looks great, interesting approach. The procedural generation stuff however has the usual issues where everything is pretty samey even if it is randomly generated.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Fabricated on July 03, 2017, 12:11:54 AM
New Update. Longer play has revealed to me that this game doesn't give you enough shit to unlock straight off which is annoying because you need to unlock a bare minimum amount of stuff before you can THEN unlock starting with random ranged/melee/shields, which lets you guarantee that upgrading the damage/effectiveness of your weapons and skills is effective right off.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on July 03, 2017, 09:04:49 AM
I've put quite a bit of time into this now and it remains excellent.  The last update added a bunch of new enemies, which the game needed.   Also there are quite a few more unlocks than I expected.  The spear in particular is quite fun and the new broadsword and torch are VERY good.   Shields were buffed to try to prevent enemies from cheaply  chaining you to death, but I think they are still way to weak and the fix didn't really work.  There are still a few enemies that can chain you into a frustrating death.

I haven't beat the final boss yet, he's pretty tough, and the enemies in the final levels can wreck you quick.  I'm still enjoying doing runs and trying different weapon combos.  Hopefully they keep adding stuff because if they can get content variety in a good spot the game play will carry this game.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 09, 2018, 03:42:18 PM
This released. It's fucking great. I'm terrible at it (and this genre), but I couldn't stop playing. Started playing and ended up going for 3 hours straight.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: schild on August 10, 2018, 12:05:24 AM
This is excellent.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: pxib on August 10, 2018, 12:34:48 AM
Great visual style, great controls, good difficulty/progression curve. Also, the music is excellent and (more rare) matches the feel of the gameplay: Urges you forward without being overbearing, just like most other aspects of the design.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on August 14, 2018, 09:02:34 AM
Started over from scratch and it's got me hooked all over again.  I had like one hit left on the second boss and super choked.  I really want to see what's past that because it was a little rough before.  Also, they changed shields again and I still hate them, but they they at least seem more usable.  I'm going to have to do a few shield runs to figure out the timing.  I feel like they are probably great if you are good with them but I have a hard time playing that slow.

I think I'm going to be playing this one for a long time.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: schild on August 14, 2018, 10:36:44 AM
Game is so good I bought it on two systems already. Might get PS4 also.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Soulflame on August 14, 2018, 12:03:47 PM
You're talking about this inspired me to take another go at Rogue Legacy.

Mostly so I could maybe actually complete a game before I buy this at some point in the future.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Teleku on August 14, 2018, 12:20:42 PM
This is a better presented and sharper version of (maybe better game or not better depending on the person playing) Rogue Legacy.  So make sure you like that game before you buy this one.  


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 14, 2018, 12:23:10 PM
Game is so good I bought it on two systems already. Might get PS4 also.

Uhh, yah. I may have to get this on the Switch for portable play.

It's amazing that I can enjoy a game like this. It doesn't make me feel like I suck, it makes me feel like I can get better. The skill floor raises so seamlessly.



Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Ironwood on August 14, 2018, 12:23:52 PM
This whole thread is a little disturbing.

It looks like an 8 bit platformer, but I'm really hearing some love.

What the hell.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 14, 2018, 12:42:03 PM
It's not really a platformer. There aren't a lot of platforming sections, and those that are there aren't very difficult. This is partially by design and partially because the movement in the game is done so well. I'm shit at platformers, and even I can pull of some stuff that looks incredibly slick.

This is essentially a rogue-like metroidvania (loosely). There isn't much backtracking in the traditional sense of the genre, but you do acquire abilities in your runs that unlock opportunities on future runs. Over time you unlock new abilities, new weapons, new mutagens (passives). Also, while playing, you put together a kit on the fly and adjust it based on what you're going to encounter. One time I may end up building a trap build where I toss out a bunch of deployables while utilizing range attacks. I can run a build where I have complementing melee attacks supplemented by low cool down grenades with varying status effects. This does mean you can get dicked by RNG in some runs, but they're not overly long and if you finish at least one segment, you will make progress.

Plus there's built in structure/rewards for speed running, if you're into that shit.

It just never feels unfair. A generous dodge roll and precise movement means that even if your kit limits you, the game does not. It's just good. This game is as well made and executed as anything I can conceive of.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Hawkbit on August 14, 2018, 12:48:48 PM
The Switch version has some sub-60fps moments. The devs said that fix is their priority right now. That said, it is just as good portable as on PC.

I got my kid hooked on it, she's playing like three hours a day right now. It reminds me so much of NES games evolved, so it's awesome seeing her geek out on something that at least feels retro in base game movement.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: schild on August 14, 2018, 12:52:14 PM
This whole thread is a little disturbing.

It looks like an 8 bit platformer, but I'm really hearing some love.

What the hell.

nah, it looks post-neo geo

unless you forgot what 8bit looks like, in which case, I'll help

super mario bros 3


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: MisterNoisy on August 14, 2018, 08:14:43 PM
This is probably the best game to pop in the last couple of years.

Super focused gameplay that keeps you coming right back at it when you get ganked - the progression loop is super well-tuned.

Also gets bonus points for getting an IGN 'writer' fired for plagiarism.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: SurfD on August 15, 2018, 12:52:46 AM
Also gets bonus points for getting an IGN 'writer' fired for plagiarism.
OOo, do tell :P


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Trippy on August 15, 2018, 01:54:48 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/08/07/ign-investigating-dead-cells-review-allegedly-plagiarized-by-its-nintendo-editor/#306d1515422e

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/08/14/evidence-surfaces-of-more-word-for-word-plagiarism-by-ex-ign-editor/#3ac5ce25bd10


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Threash on August 15, 2018, 11:34:42 AM
Is this playable with keyboard and mouse or do you need a controller?


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: schild on August 15, 2018, 11:44:45 AM
you want a controller


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Threash on August 15, 2018, 11:53:25 AM
I really don't, which is the problem.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rendakor on August 15, 2018, 01:36:28 PM
Picked this up for the Switch and loving it so far. What's behind the 2 minute timed door, anything worth rushing for? I generally don't play these games fast, and instead prefer to full clear an area before moving on and have yet to make it to it in time. Are there more of these timed doors?


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on August 15, 2018, 03:19:18 PM
Picked this up for the Switch and loving it so far. What's behind the 2 minute timed door, anything worth rushing for? I generally don't play these games fast, and instead prefer to full clear an area before moving on and have yet to make it to it in time. Are there more of these timed doors?

A batch of cells, gold and usually an upgrade.  I believe I have found blueprints as well.   

There are a bunch of timed doors.  Sometimes I will do a cells run where I just hit all the timed doors between the beginning and the clock tower.  It takes maybe 10-12 minutes and you net like 100 cells or so.  There's usually one in the safe room of the black bridge and then right after it in stilt village there is another one and they have 20-30 each.  Plus all the ones before that depending on the route you take - Ramparts has one, Toxic sewers has one, Ossuary has one.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Nija on August 17, 2018, 11:00:24 AM
They spent a lot of time working on how this plays and controls. I have played 65 games now and I can only think of 3 bullshit deaths.

I'm playing it on the switch and I notice that if I use the pro controller I do two to three times better than using the handheld controls. Someone needs to make upsized joycons for adults.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Gimfain on August 17, 2018, 12:22:57 PM
For someone that liked games like hollow knight and ori but never been a fan of rogue-like/lite randomized maps, is it a game for me?


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Hawkbit on August 17, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
I personally like games like Castlevania, Metroid, Hollow Knight, Ori and tend to dislike games like Rogue Legacy. However, this one pushes all the right buttons. It just never feels unfair and there are mechanisms to make future runs easier. It still is random maps and sometimes those layouts are more dense than others.

I feel as if this is a bit of a 'must buy' for just about anyone that appreciates action games and is nostalgic for the way games used to be when we were kids.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Gimfain on August 17, 2018, 02:00:36 PM
You sold me on this one.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rendakor on August 17, 2018, 02:02:55 PM
It certainly feels like a modern (S)NES game in a good way. I haven't played a game in a while that I felt like I had to "get good at the game" in order to progress; while the game certainly unlocks more options and power as you accumulate cells, you still need to learn how to deal with the enemies and manage health as you play.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: MisterNoisy on August 21, 2018, 08:08:13 PM
I'm at the point where getting to the Hand of the King is trivial (if occasionally time-consuming), but that fight is kicking my ass.  This game is probably already my GotY.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 22, 2018, 04:29:47 PM
I tend to get gibbed in the Castle, but I'm at the point where I can get to it most of the time. Slumbering Sanctuary can sometimes be an issue, just due to goddamn damage the mobs there can put out.

I'd say 70% of the time I end up with a tactics/traps build. It helps to mitigate my old man reflexes to a degree.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on August 23, 2018, 09:00:57 AM
I did in the castle quite a bit as well, mostly because I'm trying to speed through it and the enemies there just do a ton of damage.  I should learn to slow down.

I don't usually have trouble in Slumbering Sanctuary but Forgotten Sepulcher can get me from time to time on some of the longer darkness areas.

Last night I had a brutality build that was amazing with Valmont's Whip and Hokuto's Bow.  Then I got one shot by one of the big hook guys in the Castle.   It happened so fast that I'm not sure what I did, but 'm sure I screwed up on something :grin:


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Ironwood on August 24, 2018, 01:03:48 PM
Well.  What an interesting little game.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 24, 2018, 03:19:06 PM
Spoiler-y tip:



Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Fabricated on August 24, 2018, 08:44:48 PM
The general amount of grinding required to unlock stuff is more annoying than fun to me.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rendakor on August 24, 2018, 09:11:15 PM
The general amount of grinding required to unlock stuff is more annoying than fun to me.
This is worse when you're shit at the game. I unlock a new thing on average of every 2-4 runs.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: schild on August 24, 2018, 09:39:54 PM
The general amount of grinding required to unlock stuff is more annoying than fun to me.

yea, the 1000 souls bit, plus the stuff below that, should be halved

edit: didn't see the new page, Rendakor - strong chance Fabricated is better at this game than you, or most of the people on f13


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Falconeer on August 24, 2018, 10:09:49 PM
I have read more than one negative comment referring to how unlocking certain items at the beginning of the game can screw you up lately to the point that it's better to delete your save file and restart than to keep going. Is it true at all?

Quote
the game punishes you for unlocking new items. This really, really sucks. Certain weapons are superior, like the ice grenade for instance. If you buy dozens of new tactical weapons, you reduce your chances of finding the ice grenade or some other good item. This means you stunt your proggression as you go. After about 10-15 hours of playing, you will be better off restarting the game and only unlocking the best items.

Quote
If you unlock weaker items, they can dilute the spawn pool, causing strong items to spawn less. (For example, let's say I always land parries, which block extra damage, whenever I use a shield. Because the Full Plate Shield can't parry, I would actually NOT want to unlock this item.) Because you can't reverse unlocking an item, sometimes you could make more long term progress by deleting your save file and restarting


Also:

Quote
the game is set up so that it incentivizes running past enemies rather than fighting them. It's infuriating that the most efficient ways to play this game involve running past all the enemies and focusing entirely on getting the speed gates. They give cells, money, and scrolls.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 24, 2018, 10:32:12 PM
Hasnít been my experience. Also, different weapons are going to cater to different play styles and certain combos will work better on some levels more than others. Sure thereís some stuff thatís just junk or that I donít have a good way of using yet. I typically build in the way I want and there multiple avenues to get there.

You get more souls and gear from clearing a level rather than speed running it.  There are some formulas and achievements there, but I havenít felt compelled to do much of that yet. If I am speeding through, itís usually because Iím getting blasted and just want to escape with my souls and formulas.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Arinon on August 25, 2018, 01:50:33 AM
You get more souls per run clearing the whole map but I feel like if you are just after cells for unlocks you get more per minute/hour if you hit the gates.

I'll second that the Hand of King seems orders of magnitude more difficult than the rest of the game.  Haven't beat him yet but just got some mutation that gives you three seconds of immunity per flask use.  Pretty sure a glass cannon melee build could face tank him down with a reasonable setup.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 25, 2018, 02:23:02 AM
I can get him down to like half. But he usually does something stupid like punt me into the corner and just 100% to 0.

My problem with the speed run is that you can end up with some really weak builds. Of course, I haven't tried it in a while, perhaps I could actually pull it off now. Main goal for me now is just to dump cells into the quality increases.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Fabricated on August 25, 2018, 03:33:54 PM
The general amount of grinding required to unlock stuff is more annoying than fun to me.
This is worse when you're shit at the game. I unlock a new thing on average of every 2-4 runs.
Basically the best way to get a bunch of souls is to blast through early areas as fast as possible to get unlock doors since those grant tons of upgrades, money, and cells. If enemies bunch up to where you can kill a ton easily and fast then go for it but ignore all onesy-twosies.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Gimfain on August 25, 2018, 04:05:50 PM
The rogue lite aspect kills my fun. Dislike the repetitious nature of these games


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on August 27, 2018, 09:47:44 AM
If you have a strong build going, some of the side zones can be worth full clearing.   I came out of Slumbering Sanctuary in one of my last runs with over 100 cells.

I agree on the costs being too high overall though.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Ironwood on August 27, 2018, 09:57:51 AM
The truly random nature of it is killing me though ;  I take it that you can lessen this as you level up somehow ?

Some runs I'll have a nice weapon setup and others I'll be taking on the hordes of darkness with a Mars Bar and nothing better seems to drop....


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Teleku on August 27, 2018, 10:31:57 AM
Meanwhile, I keep thinking this games only weakness is its low amount of randomness compared to Rogue Legacy and others.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: schild on August 27, 2018, 01:01:51 PM
yeah I wish it was more random


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Rasix on August 27, 2018, 05:46:20 PM
The truly random nature of it is killing me though ;  I take it that you can lessen this as you level up somehow ?

Some runs I'll have a nice weapon setup and others I'll be taking on the hordes of darkness with a Mars Bar and nothing better seems to drop....


Get the Merchandise unlock. You can select the type of item from shops.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: MisterNoisy on August 27, 2018, 10:06:33 PM
I've settled into a 'default' playstyle where I go for turrets and firebrands/ice bow.  Basically I just show up, throw a bunch of shit on the floor and find a chain/ladder to wait out the DoTs.

It's efficient, but not glamorous.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Ironwood on August 28, 2018, 03:22:01 AM
The truly random nature of it is killing me though ;  I take it that you can lessen this as you level up somehow ?

Some runs I'll have a nice weapon setup and others I'll be taking on the hordes of darkness with a Mars Bar and nothing better seems to drop....


Get the Merchandise unlock. You can select the type of item from shops.

That's what I wanted to hear.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Flood on August 28, 2018, 06:57:21 PM

Side-scroller / Metroidvania games aren't usually my thing, but based on this thread I bought it and gave it a shot - really enjoying it.  I think I'm losing my gaming reflexes though as I feel like I suck when playing.  I've had a few very long productive runs but I also die stupidly (often). 

All the different weapons are fun, but if I'm trying to advance I usually go dual grenades - ice and fire.  Combined with the grenade cooldown skill I can spam nades while I jump and dodge around like a spaz.   


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: MisterNoisy on September 10, 2018, 11:20:52 PM
Forgotten Sepulcher is the worst.


Title: Re: Dead Cells
Post by: Druzil on September 12, 2018, 02:05:11 PM
Forgotten Sepulcher is the worst.

Make sure to take a hunter grenade there and hit the big guys with the axes to get the death orb blueprint.  Good stuff.