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f13.net General Forums => Serious Business => Topic started by: Tale on April 20, 2017, 11:39:17 PM



Title: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on April 20, 2017, 11:39:17 PM
Their juice comes in bags. You can pour juice by hand. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-19/silicon-valley-s-400-juicer-may-be-feeling-the-squeeze)

Quote
Doug Evans, the company’s founder, would compare himself with Steve Jobs in his pursuit of juicing perfection. He declared that his juice press wields four tons of force—“enough to lift two Teslas,” he said. Google’s venture capital arm and other backers poured about $120 million into the startup. Juicero sells the machine for $400, plus the cost of individual juice packs delivered weekly. Tech blogs have dubbed it a “Keurig for juice.”

But after the product hit the market, some investors were surprised to discover a much cheaper alternative: You can squeeze the Juicero bags with your bare hands.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 21, 2017, 03:02:20 AM
There's so much to unpack from that article.

Quote
One of the investors said they were frustrated with how the company didn’t deliver on the original pitch and that their venture firm wouldn’t have met with Evans if he were hawking bags of juice that didn’t require high-priced hardware. Juicero didn’t broadly disclose to investors or employees that packs can be hand squeezed, said four people with knowledge of the matter.

Doug Chertok, a Juicero investor, said he figured it out on his own. “There is no doubt the packs can be squeezed without the machine,” he said. “I’m still a huge fan.”

Quote
The company sells produce packs for $5 to $8 but limits sales to owners of Juicero hardware. The products were only available in three states until Tuesday, when the company expanded to 17. Packs can’t be shipped long distances because the contents are perishable.

[...]

Kippy Williams, owner of Kippy’s Organic Non-Dairy Ice Cream Shop in Los Angeles and Toyko, said she purchased her Juicero late last year for $1,200. (Juicero charges businesses a premium, she said.) Williams, a self-proclaimed health-food evangelist, said she’d like to see the company sell packs by themselves to people who can’t afford the device. “It would be great if they offered people the opportunity to buy the packs and press them by hand,” she said. “I want juice for every man, woman and child.”

I too dream of a future where everyone, rich and poor alike can buy $8 bags of a single DIY glass of fruit juice.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tebonas on April 21, 2017, 03:21:29 AM
Are these plastic bags and a device that needs to be connected to the internet for a glass of juice?

There are first world problems and there is perverting an idea. "Lets make organic juice, but lets pollute the earth to ridiculous amounts to do it."

If Hypocracy could kill, these people would be long dead. Organic shop, sure.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Ironwood on April 21, 2017, 04:06:59 AM
Fools, Money, etc.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Strazos on April 21, 2017, 04:11:42 AM
I thought you need fresh fruits and such to use with a juicer - pre-juiced packs seem kind of pointless.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 21, 2017, 06:01:21 AM
I thought you need fresh fruits and such to use with a juicer - pre-juiced packs seem kind of pointless.
As I understand it, the packs are filled with pulp and the juicer presses the juice out of that. The product video in the article shows the user scooping remaining pulp out of a used juice pack for recycling.

But yes, in general the whole fucking thing is pointless. It's a $400 machine that requires $8 proprietary juice packs to provide a single glass of juice. Also, it won't work without a network connection for some reason.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Rendakor on April 21, 2017, 08:59:31 AM
What a stupid idea. :uhrr:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 21, 2017, 09:00:04 AM
I found some juice packs in my grocery store that - on the outside at least - look identical to various fruits.  They are also cheaper, but do not come with a machine to squeeze out the juice.

I started off squeezing the juice myself, but some of the packs were harder to juice than others.  Then I had to recycle the package.  Taking a cue from "Leave No Trace", once I realized that the package and contents were 100% biodegradable, I sumped the contents and tossed the outer packaging into my yard.  This had the added benefit of allowing me to ingest the juice of the more-difficult-to-squeeze packs, while also ingesting dietary fiber.

/lifehack


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on April 21, 2017, 09:04:36 AM
Shit, that's genius. I bet you'll never hear about THAT solution from Big Juice and Big Food.

Those fuckers.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 21, 2017, 09:09:15 AM
Do not get the pack that looks like a potato.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on April 21, 2017, 09:52:43 AM
What a stupid idea. :uhrr:

This is the kind of stupid device that can only be sold to tech heads and complete fucking idiots. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with just squeezing the fruit yourself? Or, god forbid, do the healthier thing than drinking the juice and just eat the fruit? You get all the same nutrients but you also get the fiber from the fruit that helps your body move the sugar through instead of letting all that shit collect in your liver.

The most idiotic part about the whole thing is the actual juice packs. Someone who does not live in their Silicon Valley bubble should be able to see that there is the real business idea worth pursuing. Get the juice pack thing right, and by that I mean make it so you can ship that shit anywhere and its fairly shelf stable and cheap, you can make a killing. A fucking Internet connected hunk of 3d molded plastic built around a smartphone app for tracking juice pack purchases.

Get tae fuck with that.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on April 21, 2017, 09:55:54 AM
Do not get the pack that looks like a potato.

 :drill:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 21, 2017, 10:03:03 AM

The most idiotic part about the whole thing is the actual juice packs. Someone who does not live in their Silicon Valley bubble should be able to see that there is the real business idea worth pursuing. Get the juice pack thing right, and by that I mean make it so you can ship that shit anywhere and its fairly shelf stable and cheap, you can make a killing.

(http://i.imgur.com/UhTMKIK.jpg)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on April 21, 2017, 10:03:28 AM
Now that's just 20th century thinking right there.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on April 21, 2017, 10:57:07 AM
So what happens to your 1400 juicer when the company folds, the servers get turned off, and you cant get it squeesing anymore as a result.

I need to go to the "internet of shit" twitter page and cry a lot.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on April 21, 2017, 12:18:15 PM
The statements by the CEO make it even worse:

Juicero CEO Begs You: Do NOT Squeeze Our Juice Bags (http://gizmodo.com/juicero-ceo-begs-you-do-not-open-our-juice-bags-1794507811)


(http://i.imgur.com/jxodWfk.png) (http://i.imgur.com/3UKXZxS.png)


Also what what wasn't mentioned yet: This product got 120 million investor funding, making it the best funded startup of 2016. The initial sale price was 700 Dollar.

And it doesn't work if not connected to the internet:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C96T3BtVwAEiqcg.jpg)

 :angryfist: :angryfist: :angryfist:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 21, 2017, 12:21:07 PM
The weirdest part is -- I suspect all the markup is on the bags, that's where all the profit probably comes from. They can charge several times what those bags cost to customers. The machines they probably sell at a very small markup, if any at all.

SO why bother with the expensive, internet enabled machine?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on April 21, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
I wonder if they could prosecute hand-squeezing under the DMCA, given that it's a circumvention of digital protection and the juice recipe is (I assume) copyrighted.

(edit) The point of the machine, I imagine, is to lock you in to their propriety juice bag format so you don't switch to a cheaper competitor a few months from now.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 21, 2017, 12:23:23 PM
Eight days is not many days.  Purposely so, I think.

I wonder if they could prosecute hand-squeezing under the DMCA, given that it's a circumvention of digital protection and the juice recipe is (I assume) copyrighted.

Excellent thought.  Let's go into business together prosecuting cheapskates.

Can this thing be loaded with ice cream?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 21, 2017, 12:50:48 PM
I wonder if they could prosecute hand-squeezing under the DMCA, given that it's a circumvention of digital protection and the juice recipe is (I assume) copyrighted.

(edit) The point of the machine, I imagine, is to lock you in to their propriety juice bag format so you don't switch to a cheaper competitor a few months from now.
Yeah, but why not a cheap machine -- you'd probably make similar money off a 150 dollar machine without internet crap ? You'd not really lose money if all your money is in the juice bag markups. You'd probably end up with more people buying the stupid things.

Then again, if you're spending 400 dollars -- buy a Vitamix blender and make your own. Those things will blend a tree stump. (Seriously, those things are worth every penny, although I recommend their refurbished ones. Save 100 to 150 for the same dang thing)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on April 21, 2017, 01:12:18 PM
Yeah, but why not a cheap machine -- you'd probably make similar money off a 150 dollar machine without internet crap ?

How then would we get millions in venture capital from tech bubbleheads?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on April 21, 2017, 01:32:51 PM
If I buy a vita I'd I have to purchase and wash actual fruit AND clean a machine.

Do you think I'm some kind of plebeian?  I want to consume and dispose, not sully my hands.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on April 21, 2017, 01:36:47 PM
This is just the Keurig concept taken to its logical (and environmentally unfriendly) conclusion.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on April 21, 2017, 02:17:37 PM
(edit) The point of the machine, I imagine, is to lock you in to their propriety juice bag format so you don't switch to a cheaper competitor a few months from now.
Yeah, but why not a cheap machine -- you'd probably make similar money off a 150 dollar machine without internet crap ? You'd not really lose money if all your money is in the juice bag markups. You'd probably end up with more people buying the stupid things.

Like I said, they want to lock you in, right?  If you spend a thousand bucks on the juice machine, you need to keep buying their juice bags to bring the cost per use down.  Even if they raise the price of the juice bags, or if a competitor starts making similar bags that are a quarter of the price, you're stuck buying their bags because otherwise you spent a thousand bucks on a useless piece of shit.  If you only spent a hundred bucks on the machine, it's easy to throw it in the trash once you realize there are cheaper ways to get juice.

It's the Royal Nonesuch -- you perpetuate the con by taking advantage of the fact that nobody likes to acknowledge that they got conned.  Old tricks are the best tricks.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on April 21, 2017, 02:23:55 PM
I have to admit, the "you don't have to clean this thing" is the one attractive proposition. I had a juicer once and cleaning that thing was a nightmare.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on April 21, 2017, 02:24:46 PM
Like I said, they want to lock you in, right?  If you spend a thousand bucks on the juice machine, you need to keep buying their juice bags to bring the cost per use down.  Even if they raise the price of the juice bags, or if a competitor starts making similar bags that are a quarter of the price, you're stuck buying their bags because otherwise you spent a thousand bucks on a useless piece of shit.  If you only spent a hundred bucks on the machine, it's easy to throw it in the trash once you realize there are cheaper ways to get juice.

It's the Royal Nonesuch -- you perpetuate the con by taking advantage of the fact that nobody likes to acknowledge that they got conned.  Old tricks are the best tricks.

Two points to that Samwise:

A) But $5-8 for a single glass isn't in any way cheap. That alone should stop you buying that.

B) That doesn't explain why venture capitalists funded this startup with 120 fucking million dollars!  :ye_gods:



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 21, 2017, 02:45:48 PM
B) That doesn't explain why venture capitalists funded this startup with 120 fucking million dollars!  :ye_gods:
It was "smart". It was "internet enabled".

This guy probably only got funding by adding that shit, even though he'd be more profitable just marketing the damn bags. Slap a few "organic" and "free trade" and "cruelty free" shit on the side and sell them for 80% markups. Can't get tech money for that. Too mundane.

Damn, now I want a smoothie. I'll just go dump a bag full of frozen strawberries and blueberries into a vitamix. Which will result, in about 20 seconds, a delicious cold smoothie. (A little spinach is surprisingly good in there, for some reason. My wife likes to add banana, but people who like bananas are fucked in the head anyways). Sadly, I cannot command all this to happen from my smartphone while on the couch.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on April 21, 2017, 03:06:58 PM
Two points to that Samwise:

A) But $5-8 for a single glass isn't in any way cheap. That alone should stop you buying that.

B) That doesn't explain why venture capitalists funded this startup with 120 fucking million dollars!  :ye_gods:

a) A glass of OJ in Florida was nearly $4 for >8oz last weekend. If all you ever do is eat out this seems at-cost to you. <insert anecdote of client who had user manuals wrapped in plastic still in their high-end ovens 12 years later here>

b) See A. Just because you have money doesn't mean you're smart. The con artist just has to find the weakness in their knowledge and exploit it.

I have to admit, the "you don't have to clean this thing" is the one attractive proposition. I had a juicer once and cleaning that thing was a nightmare.

Did you try a power washer?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on April 21, 2017, 03:59:28 PM
fresh juice is expensive

cold-pressed veggie juice - good for you or not - tastes like shit and is even more expensive than fruit juice

objectively shit

everyone who drinks it likes things that taste like shit


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on April 21, 2017, 04:38:27 PM
I have to admit, the "you don't have to clean this thing" is the one attractive proposition. I had a juicer once and cleaning that thing was a nightmare.

This thing isn't a juicer though. It's a "juice machine". Effectively it's a juice pourer.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on April 21, 2017, 05:50:26 PM
it's not even that

it's like building a robot to squeeze a toothpaste tube efficiently

i want to get in touch with the investors that gave these assholes money


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on April 21, 2017, 06:55:33 PM
The irony is that the bag idea, for folks who want to buy fresh juice is actually pretty good. You could use a really simple hand press (like a roll press built into the bag, or two blocks of wood... or your hands) to get the juice out and still do really well compared to a 400 dollar machine.

As noted. The only thing more stupid than buying the thing is investing in it.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on April 21, 2017, 07:36:34 PM
Did you try a power washer?

No, all I had was a tap. A power washer would probably have done the trick but I didn't think of it.  :geezer:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Malakili on April 21, 2017, 08:55:13 PM
hah


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on April 21, 2017, 11:38:54 PM
The two people who drink veggie juice in my office are the retard who thinks she's going to cure her tinnitus through diet and the moron who has decided he's a coeliac (husband and wife of course).

Their shit is aaaawful. It would be a building material in a 3rd world country.

I bet they would totally buy this, he loves gadgets and spending way to much for stupid things.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Zetor on April 21, 2017, 11:53:36 PM
B) That doesn't explain why venture capitalists funded this startup with 120 fucking million dollars!  :ye_gods:
The answer is simple: they were Ventrue capitalists.

As a VC privilege, they also get access to the "Special Strawberry" juice bags. I hear they're very... filling, and made of by the best people. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Cyrrex on April 22, 2017, 12:44:00 AM
The only reason any of this works is because people are, for some reason, obsessed with juice.  What the fuck people?  Protip:  in most forms, juice isn't really good for you.  I would go out on a limb and say there are only rare or no exceptions where the juice from an object is better than just consuming the original object.   

Juice is like, I don't know...eating the skin on your chicken and throwing away the meat and pretending you are being healthy.  Somebody should make chicken skin juice.  Same general idea.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on April 22, 2017, 01:57:34 AM
Which is another reason this machine is dumb, the drinks don't contain any fruitmeat (don't know the English term... :grin:), so you lose all the fiber and lot's of vitamins.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Cyrrex on April 22, 2017, 04:17:43 AM
I like fruitmeat, so let's go with that. 

It also essentially concentrates the sugar content because you remove all the filler (and fiber), and thus consume far more of it.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Rendakor on April 22, 2017, 07:16:40 AM
B) That doesn't explain why venture capitalists funded this startup with 120 fucking million dollars!  :ye_gods:
The answer is simple: they were Ventrue capitalists.

As a VC privilege, they also get access to the "Special Strawberry" juice bags. I hear they're very... filling, and made of by the best people. :awesome_for_real:
I see what you did there. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on April 22, 2017, 08:34:24 AM
I love all the Silcion Valley Markting Gobbledock these guys spew out.

The CEO:

Juicero’s mission is to make it dramatically easier and more enjoyable to consume more fresh, raw fruits and vegetables, and that’s a really tough nut to crack.

What I love about Juicero is that our team is attacking this issue in a way unlike anything I’ve ever seen.

So when I saw this week’s headlines about hacking and hand-squeezing Produce Packs, I had a one overriding thought: ”We know hacking consumer products is nothing new.
[Hand squeezing is hacking, alright!]

The value of Juicero is more than a glass of cold-pressed juice. Much more.


The founder, quotes form an interview:

Q: I like it. I have to say I'm surprised. I thought it was juice in a bag and you just squeeze it into your glass. For some reason I just thought that.

A: Yeah, you wouldn't need a $699 device to do that.

Q: Oh right, it's the pressure that you're paying for.

A: Yeah exactly. [höhö  :grin:]

I was on a treadmill. And I thought, "What can I do that can have the greatest impact on humanity, on human health?"
--
There are 400 custom parts in here. There's two motors, there's 10 printed circuit boards, there's a scanner, there's a microprocessor, there's a wireless chip, wireless antenna. There's 775 aircraft-grade aluminum. There's a gear box. There's latches that support 16,000 pounds of force. So this is basically a monster of a machine inside this veil of this nice aesthetic.
--
I think we're a company wanting to have an impact on human health and the planet and the environment. I don't think in terms of tech or food.
--
And I said, "I'm going to do what Steve did. I'm going to take the mainframe computer and create a personal computer, I'm going to take a mainframe juice press and I'm going to create a personal juice press,"
--

And here is a Youtube presentation by Doug Evans, the founder, music included. (https://youtu.be/dd05EMZOstk)


I really hate these kind of people with every fiber (see what I did there? :why_so_serious:) of my being.  :angryfist: :angryfist:



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 22, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Which is another reason this machine is dumb, the drinks don't contain any fruitmeat (don't know the English term... :grin:), so you lose all the fiber and lot's of vitamins.
In orange juice, it's the "pulp". Maybe that's for all fruits, I don't know. Fruitmeat is a pretty awesome term though.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: rattran on April 22, 2017, 11:22:02 AM
"Flesh" is the normal English term. Fruitmeat is more specific portmanteau though, I like it.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: NowhereMan on April 22, 2017, 11:36:27 AM
I think technically it's only pulp after it's had all the juice squeezed out and been generally crushed. Flesh would be prior to that but generally we just call it fruit when we're eating it i.e. the edible parts don't really get referred to separately, the assumption is when you're eating an orange it's just the flesh so we have terms for the non-edible parts that do get used but no-one typically talks about the 'fruitmeat'.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 22, 2017, 02:27:35 PM
Juicero and its CEO deserve the scorn and ridicule heaped upon them. However there are some misconceptions what market this machine is targeting.

Some people when they hear the word "juicer" are thinking along the lines of an orange juicer like these things:

(http://i.imgur.com/sg0iQQY.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/40NVY9D.jpg)

This machine, however, is actually competing against things that can extract juice from vegetables like spinach, kale and carrots like these things:

(http://i.imgur.com/tt32w6C.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/lKMt6qp.jpg)

To put it another way this thing is making the equivalent of this:

(http://i.imgur.com/AYp7XSO.png)

not this:

(http://i.imgur.com/O0dipZf.png)

Those of you living in Trump-land may not realize that "juice" and "juicer" have different meanings now among those this machine is targeted towards. A relatively small but growing population of people are spending not-insignificant amounts money on these new-style of vegetable-focused juices helped along by various celebrity endorsements. LA, which is ground zero for this movement, has a crazy amount of juice bars especially around areas like West Hollywood which has like 20 of them within a 1 square mile area, and it's spread to other big cities and their surrounding areas.

My biggest issue with the Juicero is actually the price of the packs. Blueprint juices are ~$10 - $12 for 16 oz bottles in stores. Juicero packs are $5 - $8 dollars for <=8 oz of juice (Pomegranate is especially egregious at $8 for 3 oz) making them on average more expensive per ounce than Blueprint or other comparable juices.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on April 22, 2017, 02:32:18 PM
Was someone here actually confused? I'm not reading every post.

Literally every city has a fuckload of juice bars in it.

They all serve the same thing.

Foul tasting horseshit.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 22, 2017, 02:45:07 PM
Do the Blueprint juices require a $400 machine that only works when it has a wifi connection to open the bottles for you?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on April 22, 2017, 02:52:11 PM
So this is a internet connected, less environmentally friendly take on the $200 things that Jack Lalane was hawking on infomercials 25 years ago.

Got it.



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Soln on April 22, 2017, 03:02:20 PM
I need my Kale and Cocaine drink in the morning or I'm not really committed.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on April 22, 2017, 03:10:55 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/AYp7XSO.png)

Well, we have those too in bigger supermarkets. The juices are pressed by the staff and filled in bottles in the morning and put on an ice bench for the customer to take.

Although admittedly the ingredients are more pedestrian. For example 100% carrot juice (my favorite) or Bananas+Orange juice mixed.

Prices are € 1.99 for 0.5 liter or €4.49 for 1 liter. Around an hour before shop closing all the unsold juices of the day are discounted by 50%, which is the only time I buy them.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: NowhereMan on April 22, 2017, 03:28:51 PM
This machine exists for idiots who want one at home because they don't like cleaning their current juicer and idiots who want one in their office to impress other idiots who might be willing to invest in their tech company because they seem like they're successful.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Torinak on April 22, 2017, 04:00:54 PM
It'll be super-awesome when the $400 juicers become part of a botnet, and are then destroyed when a rival botnet operator points brickerbot (https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-17-102-01A) at them.

Just about every IoT device is some shit trying to find a problem to solve. They're easy to fund because there's just so much VC money floating around (due to concentration of wealth) that's desperate to find anything in which to speculate.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 22, 2017, 04:01:48 PM
Do the Blueprint juices require a $400 machine that only works when it has a wifi connection to open the bottles for you?
I know people like making fun of the Internet-requirement of the device but given that the contents of the bag are unpasteurized and extremely perishable it makes sense to have some safety mechanisms in place. Without the Internet connection the expiration check is too easy to bypass manually (just set the device's clock back) and you lose the recalled product lock out ability. Larger-scale produced speciality juices like Blueprint are safer cause those are either High Pressure Pasteurized or Flash Pasteurized and don't need Internet-connected bottle openers to monitor their safety.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 22, 2017, 04:15:21 PM
The expiry date is also printed on the packs. Are you really trying to make the argument that bypassing the effort of reading a label is worth the overhead of a required wi-fi connection?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 22, 2017, 04:31:53 PM
I don't think the target market for this machine really cares the device needs to be on the Internet all the time.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on April 22, 2017, 04:42:39 PM
for $120M i'll cater to any miniscule market of yuppy assholes

who needs an exact, automatic, 3 square peel of toilet paper every time?

we can build that


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 22, 2017, 04:44:19 PM
I don't think the target market for this machine really cares the device needs to be on the Internet all the time.

Actually, a lot of them are. I can't find the article now but the Venn diagram overlap of people dumb enough to buy a bag squeezer and people who don't understand the difference between ionising and non-ionising radiation is significant. There have been several calls for the wi-fi to be optional.

for $120M i'll cater to any miniscule market of yuppy assholes

who needs an exact, automatic, 3 square peel of toilet paper every time?

we can build that


Shittr


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on April 22, 2017, 06:07:01 PM
Don't forget the social media integration. It needs to anounce your bowl movements on Instagram.

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 22, 2017, 06:44:31 PM
The expiry date is also printed on the packs. Are you really trying to make the argument that bypassing the effort of reading a label is worth the overhead of a required wi-fi connection?
Place barcode on bag that lists expiration date. Scan barcode. There's 100 dollar savings.

If user sets his fucking clock back a month, user is liable for his own stupid food poisoning for being a stupid fuck.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 22, 2017, 06:44:42 PM
for $120M i'll cater to any miniscule market of yuppy assholes
Which begs the question how they managed to get so much money in the first place when the entire cold-pressed juice market here in the US is likely less than $200 million in size*. The wider juice space is a multi-billion dollar market but given that this machine can't make competitively priced basic juices like orange or apple juice I can't see how the VC's thought they were going to get a 10x return on their investment.

* $100 million in 2015 is the best estimate I've seen so far: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-juice-20150131-story.html


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on April 22, 2017, 06:59:45 PM
VC money is easily manipulated by hucksters. Just like voters.

See Theranos for an even more colossal fuckup.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 22, 2017, 08:30:48 PM
VC money is easily manipulated by hucksters. Just like voters.

See Theranos for an even more colossal fuckup.
There's that damn stupid solar roadway thing, for instance. WTF? We're gonna drive on solar panels? Good fucking luck, magic materials science that creates roadway surface as tough, rugged, waterproof as the usual multi-layer shit AND clear as fucking glass.

All that money, pissed away. Whereas you could just take regular solar panels, the shit that's getting cheaper than dirt, and stick them on a roof on top of parking structures and lots in every city, mall, business park and strip center south of, say, Denver and make a steady profit for the next 25 years selling power to the businesses nearby or back to the grid. While commuter feel both virtuous for helping contribute to green energy, their cars get to park in the shade, and they don't get wet when it fucking rains.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 22, 2017, 08:41:33 PM
VC money is easily manipulated by hucksters. Just like voters.

See Theranos for an even more colossal fuckup.
The market Theranos was claiming to address, before it turned out they are frauds, though, is humongous -- as in tens of billions of dollars in size.

E.g. let's say the blood testing market is $50 billion and Theranos's funding is $700 million. At a P/E ratio of 50 and a profit of margin of 30%, Theranos would only need revenue numbers of $467 million in a year or ~1% of the blood testing market to hit a $7 billion valuation on the public market or a 10x return to investors.

For Juicero let's grant them a future P/E ratio of 30 and a profit margin of 15%. That would require revenue of $267 million in a year, which is larger than the entire market currently, to hit $1.2 billion in valuation and a 10x return.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on April 22, 2017, 09:27:22 PM
I wasn't saying that the markets were similar, just that VC people are easily swayed by charismatic presentations full of buzzwords like "cloud", "disruptive", "groundbreaking", and "innovative".



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on April 22, 2017, 09:35:34 PM
I am 100% not confused about what the Juicero assholes are selling to. First off, they're just Theranos in a glass, as has been pointed out: grifters who know that venture capitalist are fucking DESPERATE to score big with another unicorn and so are primed to fall for anything. Second, yeah, I understand that a "juicer" is not a thing you manually make orange juice with. My brother had a higher end Breville juicer; I make stuff sometimes along these lines with my blender. It is not a huge hassle or difficulty. This is the result of dumb venture capitalists meeting grifters who said, "It's like a Keurig for juice" and the dumb venture capitalists said, "OH YES PLEASE HERE IS MONEY".


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Cyrrex on April 23, 2017, 12:08:39 AM
Haha, a blender.  It's like you're some kind of cave person!


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on April 23, 2017, 12:14:26 AM
The real value in this is the customer list. A list of people dumb and rich enough to get this cap is digital gold.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on April 23, 2017, 10:44:44 AM
for $120M i'll cater to any miniscule market of yuppy assholes
Which begs the question how they managed to get so much money in the first place when the entire cold-pressed juice market here in the US is likely less than $200 million in size*. The wider juice space is a multi-billion dollar market but given that this machine can't make competitively priced basic juices like orange or apple juice I can't see how the VC's thought they were going to get a 10x return on their investment.

* $100 million in 2015 is the best estimate I've seen so far: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-juice-20150131-story.html

Eh. I would almost bet the Austin market alone for this foul-tasting horseshit is over $100M.

LA is surely way over that.

Fucking whole foods has 10 brands of fresh-pressed juice here.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: NowhereMan on April 23, 2017, 10:57:04 AM
But really with that market you're not looking so much at people who buy juice from Whole Foods, you're looking at people that are buying home juicers already or convincing VCs that the people who are buying juice from the shops but haven't bought one for home yet is due to not wanting to deal with clean up or concern over food safety. I could see people believing the former but the latter is clearly bullshit.

You are then selling a $400 device as the entry point so you can probably count out anyone that has gone for a noticeably cheaper juicer (admittedly I don't know the current price point) so you are looking at a potential market upselling people that have a juicer and possibly getting a percentage of the store bough juice market with the offer of convenience.

I'm guessing that they're selling on a business plan of getting the main unit price down to $250 or so with a projection in capturing a significantly larger market share than current juicers enjoy and simultaneously cannibalising much of the existing juicer market. I can imagine they base a lot of their projections on the success of Nespresso, working with their numbers and ignoring the starting point difference in the number of coffee drinkers versus juice drinkers.

That said I can imagine them making a relatively successful business out of this but nothing to justify the amount invested into it.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on April 23, 2017, 11:01:03 AM
But they're *disrupting* the juice market. Don't you understand how disruption works?

Yeah, neither does Silicon Valley.

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 23, 2017, 12:09:30 PM
But they're *disrupting* the juice market. Don't you understand how disruption works?

Yeah, neither does Silicon Valley.

--Dave
Isn't it a buzzword for "Sneak up and take over the market so we can be the new kings?"

It's new millennium, we need new words for old ideas like "Let's knock off the king of that market segment and take over the role ourselves!". Without the buzzwords, people might ask uncomfortable questions like "How" before giving you money.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on April 23, 2017, 01:43:47 PM
Fucking whole foods has 10 brands of fresh-pressed juice here.

And they are all fucking awful. My wife continues to try out those shitty juices in the hopes that one of them does not taste like licking the lawn. No winners so far.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on April 23, 2017, 03:26:32 PM
But they're *disrupting* the juice market. Don't you understand how disruption works?

Yeah, neither does Silicon Valley.

--Dave
Isn't it a buzzword for "Sneak up and take over the market so we can be the new kings?"

It's new millennium, we need new words for old ideas like "Let's knock off the king of that market segment and take over the role ourselves!". Without the buzzwords, people might ask uncomfortable questions like "How" before giving you money.
What was the old word for that?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on April 23, 2017, 05:15:32 PM
Fucking whole foods has 10 brands of fresh-pressed juice here.

And they are all fucking awful. My wife continues to try out those shitty juices in the hopes that one of them does not taste like licking the lawn. No winners so far.

It's like my Dad said about fish oil supplements: "I'd rather just eat the fish."

As a bachelor I drank those shitty juices, expecting them to do me good. I kept getting sick. Nowadays my wife insists we eat the fruits and vegetables typically listed on the juice labels. I grumble a bit and eat junk food when she's away, but I don't get sick.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on April 23, 2017, 08:22:48 PM
But they're *disrupting* the juice market. Don't you understand how disruption works?

Yeah, neither does Silicon Valley.

--Dave
Isn't it a buzzword for "Sneak up and take over the market so we can be the new kings?"

It's new millennium, we need new words for old ideas like "Let's knock off the king of that market segment and take over the role ourselves!". Without the buzzwords, people might ask uncomfortable questions like "How" before giving you money.
What was the old word for that?
"Business goals".


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on April 24, 2017, 10:13:10 AM
Just about every IoT device is some shit trying to find a problem to solve.
And then there's me, who buys as many point-to-point wired appliances as possible. Not because I'm some techphobe, but because I'd rather pop the chassis and solder a connection or replace a capacitor than have to buy a $400 circuit board for a $450 washing machine. Although it's almost impossible to find a decent non-IC-based appliance now  :geezer:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: 01101010 on April 24, 2017, 11:26:19 AM
Just about every IoT device is some shit trying to find a problem to solve.
And then there's me, who buys as many point-to-point wired appliances as possible. Not because I'm some techphobe, but because I'd rather pop the chassis and solder a connection or replace a capacitor than have to buy a $400 circuit board for a $450 washing machine. Although it's almost impossible to find a decent non-IC-based appliance now  :geezer:

No shit man... how those boards are still more than the cost of a new appliance is pretty telling on how they want you to behave. Going to be a point where replacement > fixing in just about everything.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on April 24, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
This is going to be a seriously annoying part of the postapocalypse, by the way.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on April 24, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Well, when the company that installed the lighting system was bought out and the new company didn't support the old company's gear, and the new stuff we bought from 3M last year was immediately made end-of-life when Bibliotheca bought out 3M....I'm about fuck technology anyway.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on April 24, 2017, 01:48:15 PM
This is going to be a seriously annoying part of the postapocalypse, by the way.


Why do you think everyone in Fallout REALLY uses pre-'70's tech? Now you know.

Well, when the company that installed the lighting system was bought out and the new company didn't support the old company's gear, and the new stuff we bought from 3M last year was immediately made end-of-life when Bibliotheca bought out 3M....I'm about fuck technology anyway.

That's what keeps me from ever considering a smart device on my home.  The central hub and Smart Lock debacles I've read about are enough that I'm good with keeping on the "primitive" devices for a good long while.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on April 24, 2017, 02:17:43 PM
My microwave and Washing machine have these turn switches rather than a Programmable keybloard. Its funny the way that people who understand tech kinda are suspicious of this stuff.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on April 24, 2017, 02:30:26 PM
To be clear, it's not the tech I don't trust. It's corporate practices, enforced obsolescence, a lack of right to repair, and drop of all support and parts availability should a company go under/ be bought out.

You simply don't have those problems in mechanical devices, or things with standardized or non-DMCA'd parts.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 24, 2017, 05:22:09 PM
Juicero teardown and hardware analysis:

https://blog.bolt.io/heres-why-juicero-s-press-is-so-expensive-6add74594e50


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 25, 2017, 09:22:40 AM
I'm really into how schild no longer uses the Shift key.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 25, 2017, 10:06:19 AM
I'm really into how schild no longer uses the Shift key.
He's living in a post-capitalist utopia.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 25, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
Amazing.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on April 25, 2017, 06:07:59 PM
Juicero teardown and hardware analysis:

https://blog.bolt.io/heres-why-juicero-s-press-is-so-expensive-6add74594e50


Awesome. Thanks. I keep staring at the final image of the broken down machine parts.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 26, 2017, 07:56:01 AM
This is what you get when a guy who has a ten thousand dollar bicycle wonders why his kitchen equipment isn't made the same way. I like analogue cameras so I'm definitely a sucker for beautifully engineered shit but this is ridiculous overkill. The engineering in this case is compensating for a fundamental design flaw, not working in support of the thing's function.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on April 26, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
I'm really into how schild no longer uses the Shift key.
He's living in a post-capitalist utopia.
I generally only skip the shift key when I'm doing 10 other things at once but want to respond. Weirdly when I post from mobile, I try to use the shift key. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on April 26, 2017, 12:16:38 PM
The more I read about this thing, the more I think that the internet connection is a good, and even necessary feature.

Consider: The company is bagging up crushed organic produce with no pasteurization or preservatives and mailing them around the country. Each one of these bags is potentially a ticking timebomb of Listeria, Salmonella and E. Coli. I'd honestly be nervous about the eight day limit, and would love the capability to shut down the use of an entire product run at the first hint of a contaminated product.

Apparently some of the investors thought the machine would actually be fed whole (if pre-packaged) produce, which would be a completely different thing. As it is, the fact that the ingredients are pre-pulped kinda removes pretty much all of the perceived health-nut value of the whole thing...


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on April 26, 2017, 01:37:05 PM
The more I read about this thing, the more I think that the internet connection is a good, and even necessary feature.

Consider: The company is bagging up crushed organic produce with no pasteurization or preservatives and mailing them around the country. Each one of these bags is potentially a ticking timebomb of Listeria, Salmonella and E. Coli. I'd honestly be nervous about the eight day limit, and would love the capability to shut down the use of an entire product run at the first hint of a contaminated product.

Apparently some of the investors thought the machine would actually be fed whole (if pre-packaged) produce, which would be a completely different thing. As it is, the fact that the ingredients are pre-pulped kinda removes pretty much all of the perceived health-nut value of the whole thing...

I think if they just made a robot that crushes fruit you buy a the grocery store it would have worked better.  Bonus if it can sweep like a roomba thing


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 26, 2017, 02:14:11 PM
Apparently some of the investors thought the machine would actually be fed whole (if pre-packaged) produce, which would be a completely different thing.
Yeah and those aren't cheap (http://www.norwalkjuicers.com/store/). But that also defeats the whole "razor blade" model of how they would make their money so I'm not sure why any investors would think people would be able to use their own ingredients in that thing.

Quote
As it is, the fact that the ingredients are pre-pulped kinda removes pretty much all of the perceived health-nut value of the whole thing...
I don't think so. Assuming they do a good job of cutting and grinding the ingredients the end product is the same as what a "self-contained" cold-press juicer can produce.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on April 26, 2017, 02:19:02 PM
I think if they just made a robot that crushes fruit you buy a the grocery store it would have worked better.  Bonus if it can sweep like a roomba thing
That's an extremely crowded space (e.g. go to Amazon.com and search for "juicer"). The total market size is large for these appliances (~2 billion in the US) but it's unlikely anybody is making much money given the competition and things would be especially difficult for Juicero at their price point (the most popular juicers are <$200).

It does make more business sense, on paper, to go with the coffee pod model, but unfortunately for Juicero they somehow ended up with an end product that's more expensive than you can buy in stores.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on April 26, 2017, 03:02:29 PM

Quote
As it is, the fact that the ingredients are pre-pulped kinda removes pretty much all of the perceived health-nut value of the whole thing...
I don't think so. Assuming they do a good job of cutting and grinding the ingredients the end product is the same as what a "self-contained" cold-press juicer can produce.


What I was going for was more recognition that whole veggies in the produce section are usually still alive. They have an active metabolism that is to some degree combating bacteria and decay. They can safely be stored for days at home, although you should still wash them before use. But once you crush and pulp them they start on that inevitable process of putrification, unless they are artificially guarded from it. These things are apparently air-sealed, but that's about it. If there is any contaminate inside it's game over in a lot less than eight days.

You're right though, "health-nut" is certainly the wrong word to describe someone concerned about actual food safety...


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on April 26, 2017, 06:40:57 PM
I am still not over the decadence of that thing.

Apparently"juice subscriptions" _start_ at $35 per week.

If you are a two person household that are 280 Dollar per month for juice.

Edit: Haha

(http://i.imgur.com/fNux3S5.jpg)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on April 26, 2017, 09:14:22 PM
The going rate for fresh squeezed juice in Silicon Valley appears to be $10 for a 16 ounce glass.  Silicon Valley (and the bay area in general) is economically deranged.

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on April 26, 2017, 09:26:50 PM
I am still not over the decadence of that thing.

Apparently"juice subscriptions" _start_ at $35 per week.

If you are a two person household that are 280 Dollar per month for juice.

Fruit-as-a-service.

Or you can just buy fruit.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on April 27, 2017, 09:32:22 AM
I hear it grows on trees.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 27, 2017, 10:18:51 AM
Why restrict judgement on SV to mere economics?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on April 28, 2017, 07:24:28 AM
I just love the "you can make at home" thing. That's like saying that if I buy a bucket of KFC and put the gravy on the mashed potatoes myself I made it at home.

"I opened the carton of milk myself! I made the milk at home!"

and so on.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on April 28, 2017, 09:52:44 AM
I just love the "you can make at home" thing. That's like saying that if I buy a bucket of KFC and put the gravy on the mashed potatoes myself I made it at home.

"I opened the carton of milk myself! I made the milk at home!"

and so on.

I took a marketing class many years ago, and there was a case study about Pancake mix.  When they first rolled out the pancake mix it was a "just add water and mix."  This didn't sell very well, and the market research results were that "housewives were not feeling fulfilled because it was too easy."  The solution was to offer an alternative that tasted the same but required the consumer to add an egg and measure a cup of oil.



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on April 28, 2017, 10:33:51 AM
Stupid fifties housewives.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on April 28, 2017, 02:47:46 PM
Isn't 'pancake mix' that you need to add an egg and water to, just flour?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on April 28, 2017, 02:52:30 PM
No. You also need baking powder, salt, sugar, butter, and milk.

Also, it was General Mills Cake Mix that did this, not pancake mix.
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/cakemix.asp


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on May 06, 2017, 12:36:26 PM
Guess what this is:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_FIRaUWsAAIjp0.jpg)



http://www.mysmalt.com


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on May 06, 2017, 12:44:41 PM
It's an MP3 player with a salt shaker attached.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on May 06, 2017, 11:10:29 PM
I don't even...


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on May 07, 2017, 12:31:27 AM
went to the page

I have literally no idea what this actually does

but i've been trying to convince myself that this is a good way to spend $9,000: http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/wireless-speaker-systems/beosound-shape


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Cyrrex on May 07, 2017, 02:01:29 AM
maybe it shoots the salt straight onto your plate?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on May 07, 2017, 12:03:04 PM
Wasn't this, like, a Google April Fool's joke??

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on September 01, 2017, 01:45:50 PM
Juicero shutting down (http://fortune.com/2017/09/01/juicero-is-shutting-down/).


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on September 01, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
Funny, watching this right now

https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on September 03, 2017, 03:25:05 AM
Thanks for pointing that channel out. That man is great, I am sure his kisses taste like WD40!

As opposed to the founder of Juicero, who said things like:
“Not all juice is equal. How do you measure life force? How do you measure chi?”

 :tantrum:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on September 03, 2017, 10:04:06 AM
Yea, I've watched about 30 of his videos since yesterday. He's fucking great.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on October 02, 2017, 10:51:59 AM
Maybe lets have something no so serious?

(https://i.imgur.com/L2gOyH5.png) (https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/screwdriving-locating-and-exploiting-smart-adult-toys/)
(image is link)


Or maybe this is actually deadly serious?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on October 02, 2017, 11:44:15 AM
I keep thinking all this IOT shit is just idiotic overcomplicated shit tacked onto devices that don't need it so that geeky types with money can feel like they live in Star Trek, without ever considering if the tech is good enough to justify both its own existence and the security risks it brings.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on October 02, 2017, 12:00:35 PM
I gave my friend who is an engineer at Intel shit about 15 years ago when he switched jobs into their "internet appliances" division. I was like "what, you going to make a toaster connected to the internet?"

Now look at the shit we have.

Bastard is now one of the higher-up engineers in the IoT group at Intel.

I need to go back to Portland just to smack him around.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on October 02, 2017, 01:20:11 PM
in Star Trek, without ever considering if the tech is good enough to justify both its own existence and the security risks it brings.

Star Trek Holodec security protocols?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on October 03, 2017, 11:05:12 AM
I keep thinking all this IOT shit is just idiotic overcomplicated shit tacked onto devices that don't need it so that geeky types with money can feel like they live in Star Trek, without ever considering if the tech is good enough to justify both its own existence and the security risks it brings.

I think of it as a solution in desperate search of a problem.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Polysorbate80 on October 03, 2017, 11:35:31 AM
The best part of the picture is the tag under the company name: "Penetration testing"  :drill:



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on October 03, 2017, 11:39:01 AM
"... and Security services." Kinky.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MisterNoisy on October 03, 2017, 06:15:39 PM
Funny, watching this right now

https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ

AvE is awesome.  He's the guy that made me start subscribing to YouTube channels.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on October 04, 2017, 10:53:10 AM
Funny, watching this right now

https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ

AvE is awesome.  He's the guy that made me start subscribing to YouTube channels.

Best part.  According to that video, they were losing money on each unit sold


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on October 04, 2017, 11:08:00 AM
Funny, watching this right now

https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ

AvE is awesome.  He's the guy that made me start subscribing to YouTube channels.

Best part.  According to that video, they were losing money on each unit sold
That's common.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on October 04, 2017, 11:58:02 AM
Every console manufacturer sold at a loss except for Nintendo, which IIRC, they stopped doing with the Wii. All the Playstations and Xbox systems were sold at a loss.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on October 04, 2017, 12:08:38 PM
Loss-leaders are not new in any industry.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on October 04, 2017, 12:32:27 PM
If you can sign people up for $20, single serving packs of vegetable juice, you can give the hardware away practically free.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on October 04, 2017, 12:37:31 PM
If you can sign people up for $20, single serving packs of vegetable juice, you can give the hardware away practically free for $400. Or $700 for the early customers.

Fixed that for you.



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on October 04, 2017, 01:00:53 PM
Funny, watching this right now

https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ

AvE is awesome.  He's the guy that made me start subscribing to YouTube channels.

Best part.  According to that video, they were losing money on each unit sold
That's common.

Yes it's common, but the whole idea of losing money on a 400 dollar juicer makes me chuckle.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Paelos on October 04, 2017, 01:32:04 PM
Loss-leaders are not new in any industry.

They will bury you though if you're doing it as a startup.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on October 05, 2017, 07:03:23 PM
Amazon begs to differ.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: lamaros on October 05, 2017, 09:02:19 PM
Uber would also like to have a word.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on October 05, 2017, 09:49:53 PM
Amazon isn't/wasn't a loss leader.

Uber will fail.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on October 06, 2017, 12:29:16 AM
Amazon begs to differ.

Amazon started as a bookstore that while they operated on thin margins (below any other bookstore), they did not operate selling books at a loss.

Also, dont kid yourself, Amazon has absurd purchasing power. They force OTHER companies to sell to them at a loss.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on October 06, 2017, 09:18:31 AM
Yeah, Amazon started out doing one thing really fucking well, and provided a service that made brick and mortar stores almost obsolete by cutting their margins to barely keeping the lights on levels. Their patience was rewarded, but I don't ever recall them doing much of anything at a loss. Maybe they did so with the Kindle or the Fire/Alexa shit? By that point, they couldn't be considered a startup.

Uber can go fuck itself. It's going to run headlong into local regulation, and it's only selling point (lower prices than taxis) is not going to be able to withstand the nut punch those regulations will require. You know, things like liability for their drivers and passengers, not relying on that fucking horrible "self-contractor" bullshit that lets them get off paying their employees fucking dirt. I will gleefully cheer when they have to become just another taxi service.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 06, 2017, 09:30:20 AM
Free 2-day shipping, especially the first few years when it was for everyone rather than just Prime members, was a huge well of red ink for Amazon for a long time. They didn't sell the actual items at a loss, but they lost money on every sale nonetheless.

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Rendakor on October 06, 2017, 09:59:06 AM
I don't remember free 2 day shipping for everyone; I know they offered free shipping if you spent more than $50 (might have the number wrong) but it was their standard 3-5 day IIRC.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on October 06, 2017, 10:03:50 AM
Free 2-day shipping, especially the first few years when it was for everyone rather than just Prime members, was a huge well of red ink for Amazon for a long time. They didn't sell the actual items at a loss, but they lost money on every sale nonetheless.

--Dave
Minimum price was required to get free shipping in nearly all areas. There were a handful of exceptions.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on October 06, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
I almost feel bad for the UPS guy because he's down our block every day. A couple of my neighbors also abuse the heck out of Prime. I'll order a box of pencils and get it free 2 day, because I need pencils and why not. If I had Alexa and did stream-of-consciousness ordering I'd probably end up with multiple UPS boxes every day  :drillf:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on October 06, 2017, 05:18:59 PM
We left a literal 80lbs of cardboard on the sidewalk for the recycling guy this morning. He could barely fit it all in the truck. (it was only half of what's in the garage)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on October 06, 2017, 05:36:29 PM
I will gleefully cheer when they have to become just another taxi service.

Frankly, if they'd just been a normal taxi service with automated intelligent dispatching, that by itself would have given them a huge competitive advantage over traditional cabs, which generally still do dispatch via phone (and with no tracking/accountability for cabs that change their mind and pick up a different fare on the way).

One of the taxi companies in SF (DeSoto) finally got on that ball recently and rebranded themselves as "Flywheel".  I'm hoping it works out well for them; it's a very long overdue move and IMO all the old cab companies are leaving a lot of money on the table by refusing to modernize their infrastructure.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on October 06, 2017, 05:42:33 PM
I will gleefully cheer when they have to become just another taxi service.

Frankly, if they'd just been a normal taxi service with automated intelligent dispatching, that by itself would have given them a huge competitive advantage over traditional cabs, which generally still do dispatch via phone (and with no tracking/accountability for cabs that change their mind and pick up a different fare on the way).

One of the taxi companies in SF (DeSoto) finally got on that ball recently and rebranded themselves as "Flywheel".  I'm hoping it works out well for them; it's a very long overdue move and IMO all the old cab companies are leaving a lot of money on the table by refusing to modernize their infrastructure.
in most European cities I've lived, there have been app-enabled taxi services. Hailo operate across a bunch of countries, UKLON was in Kyiv and there are a few others too. Uklon worked as a kind of reverse auction for taxis. You'd put in the start and end points, it would give you a suggested fare and you could accept that or add a bit to increase the chance that someone would come and pick you up faster. Hailo just worked on the standard fares. Both let you track your taxi as soon as your ride was accepted.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Strazos on October 06, 2017, 11:34:55 PM
I'd say Uber's on-demand system and automated payments are big advantages, and often the prices are comparable with normal taxis anyway (a bit less perhaps, but not a dramatic difference I think).

Though earlier this week I was in a rush to work and requested an Uber. I changed the pickup point to make it easier for the guy to pick me up, when I notice him take a crazy detour. He then calls me to ask if I can wait another 10 minutes, so he can put air in his tire, which of course I decline during rush hour. He then wanted me to cancel the ride, and take the monetary hit for it.

So Uber, for sure, isn't all rainbows and butterflies.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on October 07, 2017, 04:26:54 AM
Uber is just another livery service. However their high overhead and ludicrous business model (no standardized fleet as an example) means that their subsidy is around 50%. They're burning billions of dolllars of capital in order to keep going on the hope that they will eventually have a monopoly. They lose massive amounts of money even in areas where they successfully skirt local regulations.

They will not achieve monopoly and will fail.



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on October 31, 2017, 10:42:38 AM
Look at this shit. JUST FUCKING LOOK AT IT! (https://www.naava.io/naas)

Silicon valley is now disrupting.... houseplants.

Quote
naas – nature as a service

Nature as a Service is our solution to help everyone bring nature’s most precious gift, pure air, inside. For a monthly fee, our all-inclusive concept is the most care-free way to improve wellbeing at a workplace. Naava optimizes your workspace continuously.

NaaS Hotspots

Naava units work like wifi hotspots, each one naturalizing 60 sqm of air. They are carefully located in places most in need of fresh air – near working desks, in meeting rooms, in places where decisions are made, and where people go to recharge.

Because the audience can conceptualise a wifi hotspot but not a  fucking potted plant.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: 01101010 on October 31, 2017, 10:46:19 AM
What the shit does 'naturalizing' mean?

These new age pet rocks are really out of control.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on October 31, 2017, 11:11:43 AM
I saw this and Juicero was indeed the first thing I thought of, lol.

Though unlike Juicero the idea isn't inherently dumb.  "Houseplants as a service" in office buildings has been a thing for a long time and is a perfectly good business.  It's just... not in any way innovative.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on October 31, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Where's the app? You can't disrupt a market without an app.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Merusk on October 31, 2017, 11:34:34 AM
I saw this and Juicero was indeed the first thing I thought of, lol.

Though unlike Juicero the idea isn't inherently dumb.  "Houseplants as a service" in office buildings has been a thing for a long time and is a perfectly good business.  It's just... not in any way innovative.
Holy shit.. it IS just a plant. I thought it was some new tech-gadget like an oxygen generator. No.  It's goddamn plants, packaged as a high-tech service.

I bet it also costs $3k a month.

More power to them. Even rich idiots need to be fleeced.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on October 31, 2017, 11:45:56 AM
Pokeplant

Here we go

You start the service and get a special container that measures shit in soil

You get soil and a handful of different seeds

All herbs

You plant them and hook your planter up to WiFi

Some app tells you when to water

Get sun

Whatever

If a plant dies, you're charged money and more seeds and soil are sent to you

You either have fresh herbs or lose money

Enough users and the data is aggregated and we get a large enough sample to determine who is fit to take care of children

Implement breeding licenses

Population problems solved

Gimme money

If anyone does this or even the first part before the breeding bit I'm gonna sue the fuck outta you


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on October 31, 2017, 12:01:10 PM
Hmm, maybe I'll bring in a couple herbs to work rather than compost them. Thanks, Internet.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on October 31, 2017, 01:57:38 PM
It's not just a normal plant! It has AI and everything! Look:



(https://i.imgur.com/Id1NAFi.png)(https://i.imgur.com/LeIdchz.png)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on October 31, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
my idea is way better

i definitely want people to name their plants and have a virtual graveyard for all the plants they kill

because they're heartless

and shouldn't have kids


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: pants on October 31, 2017, 09:18:27 PM
This is the 'Silicon Valley' TV show thread isn't it?  Because I'm certain that's where this belongs.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: satael on November 01, 2017, 06:25:54 AM
Naava truly is the $400 juicer. It's a good idea but far too costly and complex the way they are implementing it.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on November 01, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
Honestly a prefab hydroponic green wall is not a bad product idea; I've actually been wanting to do a green wall in the stairwell of my house but don't want to deal with watering, and something like this would be a good solution to that problem.  I have no desire whatsoever to pay a monthly subscription service for it, though.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on November 01, 2017, 07:42:35 PM
Oh my god it is an ivy trellis in a white box.

 :uhrr:

And I bet the "Naava OS" is little more than a timer with maybe a humidity sensor for auto watering. The service you pay for comes by and pulls dead leaves and replaces old plants in the off hours (like every other fucking office plant service), making it look like the freaking box is somehow fully self contained.

"Naturalizes Air."

"Fatigue is Reduced."

"Illness is Reduced."

"We roll in your Money."



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on November 02, 2017, 07:38:16 PM
Non relevant question given the general stupidity, but what relevance does information from weather satellites have for the environment inside an office, other than barometric pressure, and maybe humidity? So why would you know that?

And how soon would the accusations of corporate espionage come from the fact that you have a device attacked to the general internet grid stuck beside your high flying traders?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on November 02, 2017, 08:16:22 PM
Non relevant question given the general stupidity, but what relevance does information from weather satellites have for the environment inside an office, other than barometric pressure, and maybe humidity? So why would you know that?

For outdoor irrigation systems that sort of thing is useful because if it's about to rain you can pause your normal watering schedule and save some water.

For an indoor hydroponic system it's completely stupid.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on November 07, 2017, 05:30:41 PM
Honestly a prefab hydroponic green wall is not a bad product idea; I've actually been wanting to do a green wall in the stairwell of my house but don't want to deal with watering, and something like this would be a good solution to that problem.  I have no desire whatsoever to pay a monthly subscription service for it, though.   :awesome_for_real:

Oh hey I found the product I want.  It's basically a Naava minus the subscription fee and the cloud bullshit.  https://www.florafelt.com/recirc/


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: TheWalrus on November 08, 2017, 02:49:36 AM
Hey, that is damn cool. That's already giving me ideas for around my deck. Thanks for the link man.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
This isn't about a product, but about a silcon valley company itself

CEO of HQ, the Hottest App Going: If You Run This Profile, We’ll Fire Our Host (https://www.thedailybeast.com/ceo-of-hq-the-hottest-app-going-if-you-run-this-profile-well-fire-our-host)


Some snippets

Quote
Every day, hundreds of thousands of people all over the world fire up their smartphones and log onto HQ, a live trivia app that has attracted enormous online buzz and been called the “Future of TV” in the past week.

The co-founder and CEO of the app, however, threatened in a tirade to fire its star host simply for speaking to press on Monday.

At the heart of the app is a cult figure named Scott, who hosts the majority of shows. Scott Rogowsky has become the default face of the app, and while other hosts sometimes fill in, Scott is undoubtedly the favorite. It's Scott's face that is plastered all over HQ's press materials, after all. Fans call him "Quiz Daddy" and on the few days when he doesn't host HQ Trivia, people beg for his return.

Because of his status as a rising celeb, The Daily Beast reached out to Rogowsky on Monday to write a lighthearted profile on his career and how his life has changed post-HQ fame.

That's when things went off the rails.

Yusupov, the CEO of HQ, called the reporter's cell phone and immediately raised his voice. He said that we were "completely unauthorized" to write about Scott or HQ without his approval and that if we wrote any type of piece about Scott, he would lose his job.

Yusupov continued to threaten Scott's job, even after The Daily Beast explained that the story was framed around Scott's daily life and that he revealed no corporate information.

"You're putting Scott's job in jeopardy. Is that what you want?" Yusupov said. "Scott could lose his job."

"Please read me your story word for word," Yusupov said. "Or you can email it to me." Although The Daily Beast does not typically share the contents of our pieces, the reporter shared quotes from Rogowsky, which were non-confrontational and shared no company secrets.

Yusupov’s objections began with the line, "Scott said that despite the attention, he's still able to walk down the street and order his favorite salad from Sweetgreen without being accosted."

"He cannot say that!" Yusupov shouted. "We do not have a brand deal with Sweetgreen! Under no circumstances can he say that."

When asked to confirm that Rogowsky can’t say he personally enjoys eating at Sweetgreen, Yusupov said “he cannot say that," inaccurately claiming that Scott had disclosed private company information by revealing his preference for a salad chain.

When The Daily Beast read Yusupov a quote from Rogowsky saying “I can make people happy and give them the trivia they so desperately love and want. It's been so great to build this community," Yusupov implored the reporter to “take that out.”

Asked for clarification, Yusupov replied that Rogowsky was absolutely not allowed to say that he "enjoys making people happy and giving them the trivia they want."

"He cannot say that people want trivia," said Yusupov, the founder of the HQ Trivia app.

"It's highly unprofessional. Highly unprofessional of you to reach out to one of our contract employees without my permission and without going through proper press channels," Yusupov said, revealing previously undisclosed information that Scott himself is not a full-time HQ employee.

Yusupov said that he would approve The Daily Beast to write an article all about Scott's life, but that we were "not allowed" to include any mention of HQ or his role in HQ (which is public), or he could be terminated.

"This is ridiculous," Yusupov said. "If you reached out to an Apple engineer and they gave you information about the new iPhone, would you run it? No, because you'd have to go through proper press channels."

Yusupov was repeatedly reassured that Scott had not revealed a single piece of classified information about HQ. 

After a back and forth wherein Yusupov told The Daily Beast its reporter would never be allowed to talk to Rogowsky again, the co-founder nervously stated that the conversation was off the record, something he had not stated before that point and a precondition The Daily Beast had never agreed to. The phone call ended shortly thereafter.

<snip>
When The Daily Beast called Yusupov back a day later letting him know that the story was being reframed around his comments, Yusupov brought Rogowsky onto the phone call and falsely claimed that he never threatened to fire him.

"My feeling was that it was unethical and that you were compromising the app," Yusupov said to Rogowsky while on the phone with the Daily Beast. "Now they want to reframe the story as me threatening to fire you. Do you think that’s a good idea?"


Da fuq?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on November 21, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
This sounds like "Scott" might be found held in chains while broadcasting in some person traffickers slave den if they start digging...


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Shannow on November 22, 2017, 11:14:54 AM
hahahahahahahahahahaha what a tool.

He actually sent out a tweet saying he was looking for a good PR rep.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on November 22, 2017, 05:19:21 PM
Holy shit, these guys are so bad. They really make the robber barons of the 19th Century look like rather decent chaps.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: NowhereMan on November 23, 2017, 09:49:03 AM
Wooooooooooooooow.

How the fuck do you manage to make a puff piece about a minor app celebrity your employ that people like into a PR disaster?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on November 23, 2017, 03:07:03 PM
I think it probably starts with being an utter insecure douchenozzle, add the validation of a few million dollars in seed money to make you think your shit doesn't stink, and then turn the up the cocaine-induced paranoia to 11.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on December 01, 2017, 04:55:40 PM
Please allow me to introduce Picobrew

https://www.picobrew.com/

While not wifi enabled, it allows you to spend 700 dollars?? on a machine that will brew beer from kit you buy from them.  Kits make beer that costs twice as much and tastes half as good as a craft beer you can buy locally.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on December 02, 2017, 12:09:26 AM
Isn't the whole point of craft brew making something in your actual bathtub that tastes like it came from your bathtub?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: satael on December 02, 2017, 02:46:53 AM
Please allow me to introduce Picobrew

https://www.picobrew.com/

While not wifi enabled, it allows you to spend 700 dollars?? on a machine that will brew beer from kit you buy from them.  Kits make beer that costs twice as much and tastes half as good as a craft beer you can buy locally.

Well the $1999 version allows you to use loose ingredients instead of PicoPaks.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on December 16, 2017, 02:18:13 PM
Uber should be nuked from orbit

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRIXyeoVoAEIPuM.jpg)


"Espionage against a sovereign nation"  :ye_gods:

https://www.theinformation.com/briefing/ea953c2fe5dc31ad


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on December 16, 2017, 04:58:31 PM
I'm fine with that, even before I read that. Fuck Uber.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on December 18, 2017, 04:17:50 PM
Am I supposed to use taxis like someone from Ancient Times?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on December 18, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
I still maintain a flawless record of never having installed the Uber app.  I mostly use Lyft and will actually still hail old-fashioned taxis when I'm someplace where they are plentiful, because it's faster and they are always better drivers.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on December 18, 2017, 09:13:02 PM
I installed Uber in South Africa in case I needed it. I've never actually taken an Uber or a Lyft.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on December 18, 2017, 09:28:28 PM
Lyft is almost as bad as Uber.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on December 18, 2017, 10:02:23 PM
I've talked to people who've worked both places, and Uber sounds like it's a special circle of hell.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on December 19, 2017, 09:22:23 AM
 They’re both built on the concept that if they spend enough investor capital they will eventually have a monopoly.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on December 19, 2017, 09:33:15 AM
It worked for Amazon!


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2017, 05:50:20 PM
I use the train to get to the airport, or I drive myself and pay for parking at park and ride.

Because fuck those clowns.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on December 21, 2017, 04:52:09 AM
Uber in Bangkok is a god send considering how shitty the cab drivers have gotten.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on January 09, 2018, 09:19:12 PM
By the way, the asshole who was the founder of Juicero is now making the news for spreading an even worse idea: "raw water".


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on January 09, 2018, 10:50:15 PM
I read that and was again dumbfounded by the rarefied air in that Silicon Valley bubble.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on January 09, 2018, 10:52:13 PM
By the way, the asshole who was the founder of Juicero is now making the news for spreading an even worse idea: "raw water".

Holy crap that is the same guy?

Well, you gotta give him the lock in for a demographic....


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on January 10, 2018, 12:08:32 AM
He didn't start the trend but he is trying to cash in on the "alt water" trend (his is not exactly "raw water" as the term is currently being used) by selling a system to collect water vapor: https://www.zeromasswater.com/

As a kid the best water I ever tasted was "raw" Sierra mountain runoff water and a bunch of us got sick from it. The place we were staying even warned us before hand not to drink from streams and rivers but we had to try it anyways with the inevitable results.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on January 10, 2018, 08:33:37 AM
Kodak's stock jumped 77% yesterday because they announced a new cryptocurrency. (https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16869998/kodak-kodakcoin-blockchain-platform-ethereum-ledger-stock-price)

Quote
KodakCoins will work as tokens inside the new blockchain-powered KodakOne rights management platform. The platform will supposedly create a digital ledger of rights ownership that photographers can use to register and license new and old work. Both the platform and cryptocurrency are supposed to “empower photographers and agencies to take greater control in image rights management,” according to the press release. The digital currency is meant to create a new economy for photographers to receive payment and sell work on a secure platform.

As a photographer, I can tell you that the digital rights problem that needs solving is not 'buyers purchasing from legitimate creators'. Stock agencies and photo buyers are already pretty good at handling rights. Also why is everyone suddenly going to get locked into a proprietary purchase system using cryptocurrency as tokens, when places like Getty Images, iStock, Adobe Stock and literally hundreds more well-known sites exist that take regular currency?

Kodak also announced a dedicated Bitcoin mining rig that you can rent for $3400 for a 2 year contract. (http://www.zdnet.com/article/kodak-bitcoin-miner-on-display-at-ces-2018/) They send the rig to their partner who plug it in and operate it for you and you get 50% of all the Dunning-Krugerrands that it mines in that time.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on January 10, 2018, 08:35:19 AM
Which could possibly mean it takes more than 2 years to mine a bitcoin, so you get half of NOTHING!!! [/Willie Wonka]


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on January 10, 2018, 10:16:36 AM
Kodak is desperately trying to find a business model since they got obsoleted by digital formats. It's probably an interesting study in how a corporate entity exists on brand name alone.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on January 25, 2018, 01:43:20 PM
I think this Tesla Model 3 issue belongs in here:

(https://i.imgur.com/KxysJ4d.jpg)


Customer: "My car doesn't drive straight"
Tesla: "It's a software bug, we'll patch it later, eventually."

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-pulling-to-right-fw-bug.106970/


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on January 25, 2018, 08:31:47 PM
Yeah, there is a lot of Model 3 stuff bubbling up like this. Get ready for an entirely new kind of car accident: "oh the update only partially downloaded" and "oh there was a software conflict between steering control and the 3rd party brake software, so Autopilot couldn't help but kill those children in the crosswalk, sue the 3rd party vendor".


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on January 28, 2018, 09:27:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Mq0keiH.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/uhhsZHq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wk7j121.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q9yciIP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VCA31tq.png)


I think it's pretty safe to say that NSA et al have been playing that game in secret for a while.  :tinfoil:



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on February 23, 2018, 09:18:46 PM
Learning from mistakes we see... (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1483909118/suvie-kitchen-robot-with-multi-zone-cooking-and-re?ref=5i068i&utm_source=jellop&ja=jcf&utm_term=015.jcf&utm_content=Suvie-RHS-CL7&utm_source=jellop&utm_medium=facebook=)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Rendakor on February 23, 2018, 09:43:17 PM
Same idiots or new idiots operating with the same formula?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on February 23, 2018, 11:28:28 PM
The app is our modern prison of the mind.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on February 24, 2018, 09:31:38 PM
So a microwave meal + app, except you pay $599 for the microwave and $12 for microwave food.  :mob:


And god, I hate the silicon valley marketing speech: "Some might describe it as the future, others a life-safer", "chef-inspired" :mob:

Edit: Also, doesnt sound this yummy:

Quote
Place your vacuum sealed, pre-seasoned protein into the removable protein pan and fill it with water. If using a Suvie Smart Meal, these packages will be good to go. If using your own recipe, simply put your seasoned protein in a sous vide compatible bag, seal it, and you’re ready.

And for people that need a machine to make noodles and warm sauce:

Quote
Pour starches into our pasta cooking pan and add your desired level of salt, just like you would on the stove.
Add the sauce to the warming pan.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on February 24, 2018, 10:37:31 PM
Da fuq? So, it microwaves food that it has kept refrigerated until a pre-programmed time, or you activate it from your phone? Food you still have to mix together? So, it's less convenient, more expensive, and literally does nothing but move the prep time to before you leave for work. All to save me...3 or 4 minutes between when I hit the door to when I can eat?

Why the fuck would I even pay ordinary microwave prices for this pile of over designed crap?

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on February 25, 2018, 01:45:53 PM
BECAUSE IT HAS AN APP!!!!!!!!

It's like you don't even have a smartphone or something.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on February 25, 2018, 02:08:20 PM
Fuck, I need to just design a powered recliner you control with your phone. Off the shelf "home theater" seating and an Arduino board, done. Cash in on the stupid money while idiots on Sand Hill Road still have some.

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on February 25, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
Same idiots or new idiots operating with the same formula?
New/different idiots. Juicero guy is doing the Zero Mass water thing I linked above.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on February 25, 2018, 09:02:36 PM
BECAUSE IT HAS AN APP!!!!!!!!

It's like you don't even have a smartphone or something.  :why_so_serious:

There already are wifi-enabled sous vide devices with apps (https://www.nomiku.com/products/wifi-nomiku). Also kickstarters for them (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nise/nise-wave-wifi-sous-vide-with-adaptive-temperature).

Those use your own pot to cook in. So looks like they've taken that and added a box to cook it in, and juicero-style bags.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on February 25, 2018, 09:07:09 PM
So a microwave meal + app, except you pay $599 for the microwave and $12 for microwave food.  :mob:
Not a microwave.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on February 25, 2018, 09:10:23 PM
Fuck, I need to just design a powered recliner you control with your phone. Off the shelf "home theater" seating and an Arduino board, done. Cash in on the stupid money while idiots on Sand Hill Road still have some.

--Dave

la-z-boy has already made this as easy as humanly possible

case in point: i bought theater seating from them


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on February 25, 2018, 09:12:01 PM
But does it have an app that lets you recline the chair from your phone?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: rattran on February 25, 2018, 10:20:20 PM
Yes. My boss has one.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on February 26, 2018, 01:21:44 AM
What I really need is an app to manage my apps and make them do what I need without pushing buttons...


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on February 26, 2018, 03:37:15 AM
Da fuq? So, it microwaves food that it has kept refrigerated until a pre-programmed time, or you activate it from your phone? Food you still have to mix together? So, it's less convenient, more expensive, and literally does nothing but move the prep time to before you leave for work. All to save me...3 or 4 minutes between when I hit the door to when I can eat?

Why the fuck would I even pay ordinary microwave prices for this pile of over designed crap?

--Dave

It’s actually not bad as far as these things go. Sous vide is a method of cooking where you vacuum seal the food and then immerse it in heated water or steam. This lets you have precise cooking temperatures over long periods of time with a high amount of heat transfer. It’s legitimately used in high quality restaurants.

IE it’s actually a pretty good method for cooking food. The problem with sous vide is generally that it takes up a lot of space. If you want to cook multiple things at the same time you’re pretty much shit out of luck without multiple machines and multiple standing water baths.

So a single machine that will do multiple types of food at the same time(but not a lot of it) and do any necessary napkin math to start them at the right time so they all finish at the same time and also can be integrated into the kitchen like an appliance has value. Is it a microwave* for rich people? Yea, it is. Will it produce good food? Yea it probably will. Is $12 a meal expensive? Yes but less so than going to a restaurant and you can make your own food with it too.

*more accurately it’s a crock-pot for rich people: you start the food when you leave and it’s ready when your get back.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Johny Cee on February 26, 2018, 09:27:00 AM
Da fuq? So, it microwaves food that it has kept refrigerated until a pre-programmed time, or you activate it from your phone? Food you still have to mix together? So, it's less convenient, more expensive, and literally does nothing but move the prep time to before you leave for work. All to save me...3 or 4 minutes between when I hit the door to when I can eat?

Why the fuck would I even pay ordinary microwave prices for this pile of over designed crap?

--Dave

It’s actually not bad as far as these things go. Sous vide is a method of cooking where you vacuum seal the food and then immerse it in heated water or steam. This lets you have precise cooking temperatures over long periods of time with a high amount of heat transfer. It’s legitimately used in high quality restaurants.

IE it’s actually a pretty good method for cooking food. The problem with sous vide is generally that it takes up a lot of space. If you want to cook multiple things at the same time you’re pretty much shit out of luck without multiple machines and multiple standing water baths.

So a single machine that will do multiple types of food at the same time(but not a lot of it) and do any necessary napkin math to start them at the right time so they all finish at the same time and also can be integrated into the kitchen like an appliance has value. Is it a microwave* for rich people? Yea, it is. Will it produce good food? Yea it probably will. Is $12 a meal expensive? Yes but less so than going to a restaurant and you can make your own food with it too.

*more accurately it’s a crock-pot for rich people: you start the food when you leave and it’s ready when your get back.

This. 


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on February 26, 2018, 09:47:59 AM
It's a crock pot with an app priced for rich people who can probably just fucking afford someone to cook meals for them made by people who likely have their own chefs because they are rich and out of touch twats who think life must revolve around their smartphone.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Johny Cee on February 26, 2018, 11:48:47 AM
It's a crock pot with an app priced for rich people who can probably just fucking afford someone to cook meals for them made by people who likely have their own chefs because they are rich and out of touch twats who think life must revolve around their smartphone.

It solves a bunch of crock pot issues though.... like some ingredients overcooking into mush/inability to control doneness without actually showing up at a specific time to add ingredients, cooks things separately so strong flavors don't overwhelm everything else, and the fact you have to be there to turn the heat down when it is done.  The app makes sense, in that you can schedule it on the fly to be done when you expect to be home. 

It's a $500 toy for foodies with disposable income/professionals, if it works per specs.  If that is their market, and they are just shooting for that market, sounds fine.  I mean, Blue Apron and the like are a thing because people feel like massively overpaying for an internet recipe and not going to a grocery store.

No more dumb than gaming monitors, 4k TVs, gambling in Vegas, buying a car new, or going to a chiropractor.  Well... its probably significantly less dumb then going to a chiropractor.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on February 26, 2018, 02:27:39 PM
It's a crock pot with an app priced for rich people who can probably just fucking afford someone to cook meals for them made by people who likely have their own chefs because they are rich and out of touch twats who think life must revolve around their smartphone.

For 600 dollars + $12 per day you sure as shit cannot afford for someone to cook meals for you. But if you're a say two income household where neither participant wants to come home and cook for 30 minutes to an hour (or spend the time to figure out what to make*) but also wants to eat well it seems like a pretty reasonable option.

*Which is a surprisingly legitimate quality of life issue


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Rendakor on February 26, 2018, 03:42:54 PM
$12/person/day. Nearly $50/meal for a family of four is a little high for an everyday thing, and that's leaving out the cost of entry.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on February 26, 2018, 03:49:53 PM
It's a $500 toy for foodies with disposable income/professionals, if it works per specs.  If that is their market, and they are just shooting for that market, sounds fine.  I mean, Blue Apron and the like are a thing because people feel like massively overpaying for an internet recipe and not going to a grocery store.

I asked a foodie co-worker and she said she'd rather stay at work than come home to Suvie.

To me it looks like soggy fish-in-the-bag on soggy rice/pasta with soggy vegetables. I know I can make salmon with vegetables in 20 minutes, spend less and live healthier.

(https://i.imgur.com/wultAqD.jpg?1)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on February 26, 2018, 08:43:43 PM
$12/person/day. Nearly $50/meal for a family of four is a little high for an everyday thing, and that's leaving out the cost of entry.
Yea it’s for rich people. But 50/meal won’t come close to buying you a personal chef


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on February 26, 2018, 10:19:02 PM
(or spend the time to figure out what to make*)

*Which is a surprisingly legitimate quality of life issue
This is usually very easy, whatever looks freshest and is a quality cut of protein, that preferably we haven't had the previous couple nights. The market almost always dictates what we eat, takes the decision struggle out of it. Secondary decision of what to pair it with is the same thing, whatever looks good in the veg section. And then pick a grain to match. Easy, takes very little time.

I know some people might find it onerous to shop every night or two, but I have a thing about not letting food sit around the house for days. And I have a 3 minute commute, so I can stop by the market, or even a couple in the summer, and be home before a lot of people who commute. I think our meal for two tonight ran about $7, and that's with enough leftover for my lunch tomorrow.

And yeah, roughly 20 minutes to make a decent work night meal. And make it enjoyable, put on some music or something. Enjoy the process.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on February 26, 2018, 11:47:20 PM
And yeah, roughly 20 minutes to make a decent work night meal. And make it enjoyable, put on some music or something. Enjoy the process.

If solo: a podcast like Lovett or Leave It (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovett_or_Leave_It).

If company: dance around kitchen with wife, saying this is what our three-year-old nephew thinks we do when he goes home.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Johny Cee on February 27, 2018, 01:05:40 PM
It's a $500 toy for foodies with disposable income/professionals, if it works per specs.  If that is their market, and they are just shooting for that market, sounds fine.  I mean, Blue Apron and the like are a thing because people feel like massively overpaying for an internet recipe and not going to a grocery store.

I asked a foodie co-worker and she said she'd rather stay at work than come home to Suvie.

To me it looks like soggy fish-in-the-bag on soggy rice/pasta with soggy vegetables. I know I can make salmon with vegetables in 20 minutes, spend less and live healthier.

(https://i.imgur.com/wultAqD.jpg?1)

Look up sous vide.  You vacuum pack the thing to be cooked, and then into a water bath at an exact temp with an exact amount of time to cook to perfect doneness.  The food isn't actually swimming in the water bath.  Basically takes the skill/knowledge component out of it.  And consumer grade sous vide machines go for $300-400, not counting the vacuum packer machine and bags.

Again, its a "if it performs to spec"....  if it generates shitty soggy food, forget about it.  If I really want good coffee, I'll brew up a pot or take the french press out...  a Keurig falls on a nice place in the work/time to prepare scale though.  Massively better compared to the old work dilemma of "how old and burnt is this coffee sitting on the heater" dilemma.

$12/person/day. Nearly $50/meal for a family of four is a little high for an everyday thing, and that's leaving out the cost of entry.
Yea it’s for rich people. But 50/meal won’t come close to buying you a personal chef

Blue Apron is like $10/meal/person, and that seems to be doing okay.  $10-12/meal/person compares favorably to take-out/delivery prices.



I don't think there is any way I would ever buy one of these things...  the point is that, if it works to spec, this is a completely reasonable small scale device aimed at people with disposable income.  It isn't in the same category of ridiculousness as the Juicero.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on February 27, 2018, 04:09:12 PM
(or spend the time to figure out what to make*)

*Which is a surprisingly legitimate quality of life issue
This is usually very easy, whatever looks freshest and is a quality cut of protein, that preferably we haven't had the previous couple nights. The market almost always dictates what we eat, takes the decision struggle out of it. Secondary decision of what to pair it with is the same thing, whatever looks good in the veg section. And then pick a grain to match. Easy, takes very little time.

I know some people might find it onerous to shop every night or two, but I have a thing about not letting food sit around the house for days. And I have a 3 minute commute, so I can stop by the market, or even a couple in the summer, and be home before a lot of people who commute. I think our meal for two tonight ran about $7, and that's with enough leftover for my lunch tomorrow.

And yeah, roughly 20 minutes to make a decent work night meal. And make it enjoyable, put on some music or something. Enjoy the process.

Yes and not everyone lives near the market and is able to spend 30-40 minutes on a meal (10-20 for shopping including the extra travel time plus 20 for the meal) and that includes rich people. And additionally you still have seasoning and other decisions which make it not zero computational cost. (This would be a longer discussion but the short answer is that the quality of life value from not making decisions is surprisingly large but many people do not realize it and still choose to make choices. Putting them at the market unless they’re very attuned with themselves is probably worse than just making something for them)

This really does have a space to be valuable to people as terrible as it looks in the commercial.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on February 27, 2018, 04:17:16 PM
Most of us on this board are older and generally more well rounded in life skills than the average millennial.  As an example: we have free food at work (really good, healthy, free food) and I know a guy who drinks Soylent because he considers deciding what to eat to be a chore.  This is a totally foreign mindset to most of us here, I'm sure, but it exists.

I see the Suvie thing as being aimed at people in a slightly more moderate part of that same spectrum, who want to eat real food (of better quality than a standard microwave dinner) and are okay with doing basic prep and plating work, but who don't want to do (or trust themselves with) any of the mental work involved in preparing a meal.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on February 27, 2018, 05:10:31 PM
Most of us on this board are older and generally more well rounded in life skills than the average millennial.  As an example: we have free food at work (really good, healthy, free food) and I know a guy who drinks Soylent because he considers deciding what to eat to be a chore.  This is a totally foreign mindset to most of us here, I'm sure, but it exists.

I see the Suvie thing as being aimed at people in a slightly more moderate part of that same spectrum, who want to eat real food (of better quality than a standard microwave dinner) and are okay with doing basic prep and plating work, but who don't want to do (or trust themselves with) any of the mental work involved in preparing a meal.


See you say this and I think “your company could get more people on board by reducing their free options and rotating them” like a school lunch. Then you only have to make a choice if you clearly don’t want what is on he menu.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on February 27, 2018, 05:32:00 PM
See you say this and I think “your company could get more people on board by reducing their free options and rotating them” like a school lunch. Then you only have to make a choice if you clearly don’t want what is on he menu.

Well, that guy's an outlier though -- for every one weirdo like that there's a couple dozen who would be pretty annoyed if they didn't get to pick between sushi and filet mignon.   :awesome_for_real: 


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on March 01, 2018, 07:51:58 AM
There are a lot of people in between "I have to microwave my WIC food" and "I can afford a personal chef".  I'm one of those and I use Plated because:
1. Price is reasonable.  Last night I spent $150 on a meal for 2 in CNN Center.  I could have cooked a better filet myself, and I MAY have been able to make a equal salmon.
2. I ain't got time for meal planning.  It's a personal weakness that I absolutely can't plan a week of meals, buy the stuff, and execute on it.  OK, some of it is the wackadoo schedule that parents have where you simply have to eat outside your home.
3. Related, I don't want to buy (for example) and entire jar of capers whenever I want to make chicken piccata.  I can have chicken piccata and won't have leftover ingredients.  I would normally keep them and overflow my pantry (first world problems, amirite?) and then eventually toss them once I found they had gone bad.  Getting the pre-measured ingredients is a great boon and prevents waste.

I've considered a sous vide lately only because my wife is now doing keto and she can't eat most of what I make from Plated.  She also doesn't want to "just eat ingredients" as she says, but there's not much you can do with the restriction of "no carbohydrates".  Enjoy your bacon, cheeseburger, avocado slices, and chocolate mousse with stevia.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on March 01, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
Yegolev: How much of what you get from Plated is thrown out, either because it is not prepared or it just isn't as goodcas you thought it'd be?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on March 01, 2018, 11:40:36 AM
I make 6 figures and can only cook the Korean version of Top Ramen packs at home (which is really fucking tasty) when I’m desperate.  I only eat out or the things ‘my personal chef’ (IE, Lao Maid) prepares for me when I return home from work, twice a week.  This has been my eating habit since I left home almost 20 years ago.  I aspire to die still living like a college student.

Cooking is for suckas!


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on March 01, 2018, 12:19:31 PM
It's been a while since we had the conversation where everyone describes exactly how much time and money they allocate to feeding themselves per week.

My favorite part, personally, is when people are outraged at everyone who spends either more or less time and/or money on that task than they do.

  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on March 01, 2018, 01:50:55 PM
Yegolev: How much of what you get from Plated is thrown out, either because it is not prepared or it just isn't as goodcas you thought it'd be?

Typically I don't have any ingredients left over, minus things such as leaving out spices because my family doesn't like spicy foods.  For the same reason, I will often use half of the onion.  Sometimes there will be half a lemon, or part of a yogurt container, depending on the recipe.

Blue Apron would provide an entire bulb of garlic, while Plated provides the exact number of cloves specified.  Blue Apron provides eggs, while Plated does not.

The meals are mostly delicious.  I do have a 14-year-old and so a lot of stuff just isn't popular with him.  I'd not have a much higher batting average if I prepared my own food, especially if I were to continue making things from fresh ingredients rather than bag meals and frozen casseroles.  That boy loves him some frozen casseroles.

My favorite part, personally, is when people are outraged at everyone who spends either more or less time and/or money on that task than they do.

  :why_so_serious:

The OUTRAGE is why I visit F13. :grin:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on March 01, 2018, 04:01:06 PM
So you do end up meeting most of the (non-spice) food you receive, rather than having some you don't make and you throw out?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on March 01, 2018, 04:23:45 PM
It's been a while since we had the conversation where everyone describes exactly how much time and money they allocate to feeding themselves per week.

My favorite part, personally, is when people are outraged at everyone who spends either more or less time and/or money on that task than they do.

  :why_so_serious:

I think I started this, but I'm actually jealous of anyone who spends less time on food preparation than I do.

After decades of eating like a bachelor and gamer, I married Healthy Meal Woman. Multiple fresh vegetables every evening, fresh fruit for dessert. And oh, tonight she's gotta finish a work thing/wash her hair/didn't she cook last night, so I'm in the kitchen again. See photo above.

I never get sick anymore. It has really worked. Catastrophic flu outbreaks at work just pass me by. I also enjoy our meals. And when she's away on a business trip, pizza and beer taste better than ever. Downsides: sick days are great for gaming. There is not enough ice cream in my life. I am 7500 ly from home in Elite: Dangerous and won't be near Earth any time soon.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on March 01, 2018, 07:08:21 PM
So you do end up meeting most of the (non-spice) food you receive, rather than having some you don't make and you throw out?

Yes, Plated has a 3-person plan and that is about right for us.  We always have enough and there aren't too many leftovers.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: ghost on March 05, 2018, 08:20:52 PM
We were using Sunbasket for a bit but too much of the produce that we were getting was way past fresh and close to rotten, so we stopped.  It's still a lot of work for what you get. 


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on March 06, 2018, 07:54:06 AM
What I really need is an app to manage my apps and make them do what I need without pushing buttons...

That app exists (https://ifttt.com/discover) and it's a whole lot more useful than you probably think it is. I use it a lot to automate my photo sharing on social media.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on March 27, 2018, 06:39:32 AM
I'll have a cartridge of your best Wine, Jeeves (https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/circuitbreaker/2018/3/22/17153048/internet-connected-wine-bottle-startup-kuvee-shutting-down?__twitter_impression=true)

Quote
Kuvée, the startup that makes a Wi-Fi-connected wine bottle complete with touchscreen, has announced it is shutting down, as reported by Business Insider.

The system, which The Verge tested (and called gloriously dumb) in March 2016, is basically a sleeve with a touchscreen that fits over proprietary wine cartridges. Once a cartridge is put into the sleeve, the touchscreen displays information about the wine, like the grape it’s made from and pairing notes. The initial purchase of the sleeve and four cartridges costs $178, with additional cartridges — that could be purchased through the touchscreen — priced between $15 and $50. Kuvée said that its system would keep wine fresh for 30 to 60 days.

Though there was significant initial interest in Kuvée — the early bird preorders on Indiegogo sold out in three hours — it wasn’t enough to keep the company going. In a goodbye note, Kuvée CEO Vijay Manwani pointed toward the difficulty of educating the public about the product and says that “last year’s Napa fires affected our ability to scale our customer base over the holiday season and hence our ability to raise the funds required to continue building awareness of Kuvée.”

Manwani says in the note that Kuvée will continue to seek a partner that can “acquire or leverage the Kuvée technology and bring it to market at part of their own business model,” but all of its business operations are ceasing today, just about a year and a half after it initially started shipping. That means if you have a Kuvée system, it’s going to be useless once the company’s remaining stock sells out. From now through March 26th, Kuvée is selling all wines at 50 percent off with code LASTORDER.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on March 27, 2018, 11:17:11 AM
Meanwhile, Cuvée is crushing fucking face down here.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on March 27, 2018, 04:32:22 PM
I don’t understand who they thought they were marketing too.

If you drink a lot of wine you don’t need to preserve open bottles. If you don’t drink a lot of wine you aren’t likely to want a touch screen wine bottle.

That being said it looks like the fires are an excuse. Plenty of wine is available from other areas and at better prices before the fires. If they needed another supplier they could have easily found it. Smells like they’re cashing out of a scam to me


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on March 27, 2018, 04:55:44 PM
They thought they were marketing to dumb fucks with a lot of money. 


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on March 27, 2018, 05:55:52 PM
BUT THEIR WINE HAD AN APP!

Is something I expect some dumbshit investor who lost his money said at some point.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on March 27, 2018, 10:18:16 PM
Smells like they’re cashing out of a scam to me
That's the entire business model for all this nonsense. Business isn't about making something good, it's about suckering some VCs (or crowdfunding) for enough money to build hype and proof of concept, then cashing out to a megacorp.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on March 28, 2018, 10:16:13 AM
And then using the experience of having had a start-up as a way to get VC cash for the next scam, with the end goal being invited to join a VC to give out cash to scammers.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on March 29, 2018, 05:12:38 AM
And then using the experience of having had a start-up as a way to get VC cash for the next scam, with the end goal being invited to join a VC to give out cash to scammers.

Where do I sign up?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on March 29, 2018, 08:43:57 AM
And then using the experience of having had a start-up as a way to get VC cash for the next scam, with the end goal being invited to join a VC to give out cash to scammers.

Where do I sign up?
For the low, low price of your ethics and morals!


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on March 29, 2018, 08:59:01 AM
Well, and also it turns out that when you think you're swimming with the sharks, you may be confused when it actually turns out you're in a swarm of lampreys and that most of the animals with blood in them have already been drained dry.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on March 29, 2018, 09:09:27 AM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WanBrokenGreatdane-size_restricted.gif)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on March 29, 2018, 02:11:35 PM
If you really want in, I can help you out.  Get a Money Order for $65,000 and mail it to me. 

A return on investment is not guaranteed.  Cause I'm taking your money and going to Vegas.  And I'm not gambling it, either.  But it will be gone.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on May 08, 2018, 01:49:18 AM
The control unit of a Ski lift gondola in Austria was exposed to the internet, allowing you to start/stop/reverse it and even configure the steel cable tension!

Article in German, but the headline says it all really: https://www.golem.de/news/patscherkofel-gondelbahn-mit-sicherheitsluecken-1804-133930.html

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbJqbTbWAAEJofQ.jpg)

The gondola in question:

(https://www.golem.de/1804/133930-160361-160360_rc.jpg)



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on May 08, 2018, 12:15:54 PM
The control unit of a Ski lift gondola in Austria was exposed to the internet, allowing you to start/stop/reverse it and even configure the steel cable tension!

Article in German, but the headline says it all really: https://www.golem.de/news/patscherkofel-gondelbahn-mit-sicherheitsluecken-1804-133930.html

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbJqbTbWAAEJofQ.jpg)

The gondola in question:

(https://www.golem.de/1804/133930-160361-160360_rc.jpg)



Awwww... It's offline now!

 :evil:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on May 11, 2018, 10:00:23 PM
The rate things are going, I'm just waiting to find out the massive uptick in robocalls comes from botnets running out of unsecured wi-fi enabled toasters.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on May 12, 2018, 08:14:58 PM
Review of a $1000/yr subscription water cooler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAyxMv4IBH8

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/7cfywp/my_company_signed_up_for_a_1000year/


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on May 12, 2018, 08:17:06 PM
The rate things are going, I'm just waiting to find out the massive uptick in robocalls comes from botnets running out of unsecured wi-fi enabled toasters.
Seppen Refrigerators.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on May 13, 2018, 04:59:02 AM
Review of a $1000/yr subscription water cooler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAyxMv4IBH8

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/7cfywp/my_company_signed_up_for_a_1000year/


We have a bunch of these where I work.  They are hugely popular.  Sparkling water on demand is a thing.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on May 13, 2018, 11:45:27 AM
yeah, sparkling water on demand is the shit

unfortunately I want actual C02 soda injection rather than the sodastream method

i really just need to bite the bullet and buy a soda fountain for the home


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on May 16, 2018, 02:52:03 AM
That review was amazing.  Plinkett-tier.

We have the Ion things where I work but not the variety with the touchscreen.  Normal buttons you push and water comes out.  I really hope we don't pay a subscription service for them because goddamn that seems dumb.

My Sodastream makes better fizzy water anyway tbh.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on July 02, 2018, 05:48:37 PM
Since this is now the "stupid buisnesses of the internet age" thread, I present to you: MoviePass!

Quote
The owners of MoviePass need another $1.2 billion.
Helios and Matheson (HMNY), parent company of the popular movie subscription service, told regulators Monday that it wants to sell that much in stock and debt securities.

MoviePass exploded in popularity because of its low price. For just $10 a month, about the cost of a single movie ticket in most places, MoviePass subscribers can see one movie a day.

But the company loses money when its customers use a pass, because it must pay theaters for the tickets

This is brilliant.  Lose billions selling a subscription service to movies because you are just buying tickets at face value.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on July 02, 2018, 06:35:03 PM
I want to scream "How is that even possible?" but then I remember Snapchat got bought for a number with billion in it.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on July 02, 2018, 08:28:42 PM
I want to scream "How is that even possible?" but then I remember Snapchat got bought for a number with billion in it.
I think you meant Instagram, or maybe WhatsApp.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on July 02, 2018, 08:37:50 PM
Facebook tried to buy Snapchat for $3 billion.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on July 02, 2018, 08:46:48 PM
Facebook tried to buy Snapchat for $3 billion.

citation?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Rendakor on July 02, 2018, 08:51:10 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/12/how-mark-zuckerberg-has-used-instagram-to-crush-evan-spiegels-snap.html


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on July 27, 2018, 03:59:59 PM
Since this is now the "stupid buisnesses of the internet age" thread, I present to you: MoviePass!

Quote
The owners of MoviePass need another $1.2 billion.
Helios and Matheson (HMNY), parent company of the popular movie subscription service, told regulators Monday that it wants to sell that much in stock and debt securities.

MoviePass exploded in popularity because of its low price. For just $10 a month, about the cost of a single movie ticket in most places, MoviePass subscribers can see one movie a day.

But the company loses money when its customers use a pass, because it must pay theaters for the tickets
This is brilliant.  Lose billions selling a subscription service to movies because you are just buying tickets at face value.
MoviePass is out of money.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/27/media/moviepass-service-outage/

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1040792/000121390018009741/f8k072618_heliosmatheson.htm


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on July 27, 2018, 04:43:11 PM
I guess people see Facenook, twitter and Snapchat making scratch despite selling nothing. so they think that if they jsut get popular they will get money... somehow.

Of course, people don't realize those companies are selling things.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: jgsugden on July 27, 2018, 06:04:16 PM
I paid them $7.99.  I saw 3 films and gave 3 friends "guest memberships" for a month that they could use to see one movie a day for a month for free.  All in all, Moviepass paid $250 or so bucks for my $7.99.  I quit after a month because I saw this coming and their app wasn;t working well for me. 


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on July 27, 2018, 06:44:45 PM
I guess people see Facenook, twitter and Snapchat making scratch despite selling nothing. so they think that if they jsut get popular they will get money... somehow.

Of course, people don't realize those companies are selling things.

Well, Facebook is selling things. Twitter and Snapchat are both sucking vortexes of investor-money draining idiocy that will likely never be profitable.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on July 27, 2018, 10:45:15 PM
Twitter just posted a $100 million profit this quarter.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on July 27, 2018, 10:55:41 PM
Since this is now the "stupid buisnesses of the internet age" thread, I present to you: MoviePass!

Quote
The owners of MoviePass need another $1.2 billion.
Helios and Matheson (HMNY), parent company of the popular movie subscription service, told regulators Monday that it wants to sell that much in stock and debt securities.

MoviePass exploded in popularity because of its low price. For just $10 a month, about the cost of a single movie ticket in most places, MoviePass subscribers can see one movie a day.

But the company loses money when its customers use a pass, because it must pay theaters for the tickets
This is brilliant.  Lose billions selling a subscription service to movies because you are just buying tickets at face value.
MoviePass is out of money.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/27/media/moviepass-service-outage/

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1040792/000121390018009741/f8k072618_heliosmatheson.htm

no one ever saw this coming


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on July 27, 2018, 11:00:03 PM
Twitter just posted a $100 million profit this quarter.

with a valuation that makes zero fucking sense


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Velorath on July 27, 2018, 11:16:39 PM
Since this is now the "stupid buisnesses of the internet age" thread, I present to you: MoviePass!

Quote
The owners of MoviePass need another $1.2 billion.
Helios and Matheson (HMNY), parent company of the popular movie subscription service, told regulators Monday that it wants to sell that much in stock and debt securities.

MoviePass exploded in popularity because of its low price. For just $10 a month, about the cost of a single movie ticket in most places, MoviePass subscribers can see one movie a day.

But the company loses money when its customers use a pass, because it must pay theaters for the tickets
This is brilliant.  Lose billions selling a subscription service to movies because you are just buying tickets at face value.
MoviePass is out of money.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/27/media/moviepass-service-outage/

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1040792/000121390018009741/f8k072618_heliosmatheson.htm


Turns out, giving away money isn't a viable business model.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on July 27, 2018, 11:36:45 PM
I know a few people who were big moviepass people (mostly parents who bought them for their college-age kids).

It's been fun pushing them into logical gymnastics as they defend the business model for some reason.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on July 28, 2018, 10:55:54 AM
you'd have to be a trump voter to defend the movie pass business model

It's they fucking stupid


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on July 28, 2018, 11:28:09 AM
Actually for folks who bought the pass really early, that was a savvy money-saving move. The people who are criminally stupid here are the people who invested in them or who assumed that somehow this is another case of Silicon Valley magic in the making. I heard the current CEO on NPR just a few weeks ago and the NPR interviewer was an unbelievable tool who couldn't be arsed to ask even a mildly skeptical question and then stick with it a bit.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on July 28, 2018, 12:29:53 PM
Actually for folks who bought the pass really early, that was a savvy money-saving move. The people who are criminally stupid here are the people who invested in them or who assumed that somehow this is another case of Silicon Valley magic in the making. I heard the current CEO on NPR just a few weeks ago and the NPR interviewer was an unbelievable tool who couldn't be arsed to ask even a mildly skeptical question and then stick with it a bit.


Yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with buying a pass and using the hell out of it on the company's dime. Okay, that looked like sarcasm but I'm serious. Those guys want to buy tickets for me using their venture capital, well, thanks!

As a business guy myself, I might speculate a bit more when I have time, but honestly the only business plan I can come up with to justify MoviePass' practices would just be out-right, obvious fraud -- the kind the SEC frowns on.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on July 28, 2018, 01:07:55 PM
Their business model was to become a monopoly and then squeeze theaters.

It can work if you have enough capital/it’s hard to get into the business you’re in/there are significant network effects...

It uhhh does not otherwise. So, so long and thanks for all the movie tickets.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on July 28, 2018, 01:28:18 PM
Their business model was to become a monopoly and then squeeze theaters.

It can work if you have enough capital/it’s hard to get into the business you’re in/there are significant network effects...

It uhhh does not otherwise. So, so long and thanks for all the movie tickets.

Yeah, but looking at it I just can't...

I mean, I've supported and come ahead in some risky ventures myself, but this one was truly underwear gnome third bullet point ??? level of crazy. They were just never capitalized enough.

The thing is, even with the Juicero I can see the initial plan and risk. We need to sell X units for Y dollars and profit! The problem is they couldn't sell X units for Y dollars and the plan failed, but that's marketing (and a lot of other problems I'm simplifying I know, but most of their problems could have been fixed by somebody forcibly pulling heads from asses at some early stage of the venture).

Same thing with Facebook and Twitter and maybe Snapchat (haven't looked at that one really). I know it's the thing to bash them, but I could see a clear path to money for all of them. Facebook wasn't even that risky.

But as far as I can see the only justification for MoviePass was to funnel venture capital into the pockets of the founders -- I am assuming the CEO is paying himself a nice salary? It just never had a chance in hell of monopolizing the market, and that latest infusion of five million... Why oh why?

 :psyduck:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on July 28, 2018, 02:46:03 PM
They were never planning on making money directly off the subscriptions themselves. though there was some hope that subscribers in areas within cheaper movie tickets would offset a bit the prices in the more expensive areas. It was about the data that was being collected about their users and what they could use/sell it for. In fact the switch to the ultra-cheap  a-movie-a-day monthly subscription plan happened because an analytics firm acquired a majority stake in the company. They were also angling for a cut of the concession profits (apparently MoviePass users spend more on concessions).

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-does-moviepass-make-money-2017-8


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on July 28, 2018, 03:05:25 PM
They were never planning on making money directly off the subscriptions themselves. though there was some hope that subscribers in areas within cheaper movie tickets would offset a bit the prices in the more expensive areas. It was about the data that was being collected about their users and what they could use/sell it for. In fact the switch to the ultra-cheap  a-movie-a-day monthly subscription plan happened because an analytics firm acquired a majority stake in the company. They were also angling for a cut of the concession profits (apparently MoviePass users spend more on concessions).

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-does-moviepass-make-money-2017-8


I had considered the data gathering aspect, but possibly because I'm not in that business I undervalue it (or maybe I'm just a crusty luddite). But in any case, it would appear that they did overvalue it themselves.

But thanks for that link. I'll read it a bit later. Should be entertaining...


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on July 28, 2018, 04:38:47 PM
I don't even think they were planning to make money ever on anything. This was straight up, "Some VC people will give us some money, we need to make some money, let's convince them this is another magical internetz disruption model, thanks for the money, see ya." Not even at the level of really massive, ballsy fraud like Theranos.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on July 28, 2018, 05:59:22 PM
They were never planning on making money directly off the subscriptions themselves. though there was some hope that subscribers in areas within cheaper movie tickets would offset a bit the prices in the more expensive areas. It was about the data that was being collected about their users and what they could use/sell it for. In fact the switch to the ultra-cheap  a-movie-a-day monthly subscription plan happened because an analytics firm acquired a majority stake in the company. They were also angling for a cut of the concession profits (apparently MoviePass users spend more on concessions).

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-does-moviepass-make-money-2017-8


Except that it’s bullshit. The value of a single data point is not 10 fucking dollars and it would have to be in order for “making money on the data” to make sense.  Facebook makes 5 dollars a month or year (I don’t recall which) per user and anyone thought that the data on MP was going to make the difference!? They also have to compete with Netflix selling the same type of data.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on July 28, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Movie pass data would also be worth infinitely less. The literal only data they're gonna pull is "people will watch some real garbage if it's cheap."

Well, yea. Like having a movie pass subscription.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Velorath on July 28, 2018, 11:16:13 PM
While I'm sure attendance will drop for a while after MoviePass dies I won't be too sad given how they turned theater staff everywhere into unpaid tech support for their shitty app. Running a place where the majority of the customers are seniors, it's like having to explain technology to your parents 20 times a night not to mention the people who don't understand the distinction that it's a 3rd party company and thus not my fault when the shit doesn't work properly.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2018, 11:45:40 AM
When I first heard about MoviePass, I thought it WAS something the theater company was doing (i.e. it was a Cinemark thing). That would be the only way this thing could make any money is if the theaters themselves are basically offering unsold tickets. That a third-party company was trying to make this work paying full price to theater companies for the tickets (rather than working out some deal for unused tickets) is just a fucking retarded idea from step 1, regardless of whatever other revenue you might get from ads in the app or data collection sales. There's just nothing in this app that makes any sense for any one other than the consumers wanting to get cheap tickets.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Morat20 on July 29, 2018, 12:05:47 PM
When I first heard about MoviePass, I thought it WAS something the theater company was doing (i.e. it was a Cinemark thing). That would be the only way this thing could make any money is if the theaters themselves are basically offering unsold tickets. That a third-party company was trying to make this work paying full price to theater companies for the tickets (rather than working out some deal for unused tickets) is just a fucking retarded idea from step 1, regardless of whatever other revenue you might get from ads in the app or data collection sales. There's just nothing in this app that makes any sense for any one other than the consumers wanting to get cheap tickets.
See, that makes sense. "We'll offer you basically free seats to movies that we're still showing, but aren't even half full, and frankly we'll make it back and more on concessions".  I mean the average person is gonna think "Hey, I didn't spend 10 bucks a person to see this movie, let's splurge on the 500% markup snacks!"


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on July 29, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Joys of moving out of the US in 2012.  I had no idea movie pass even existed till this thread.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2018, 01:57:13 PM
I've worked with cruise lines in the past (before 9/11 of course) who made crazy money, relatively speaking, by using their web site to post deals on rooms that were going unsold. These empty rooms were making them some money over cost precisely because they were rooms that would have made them zero money if they hadn't been sold, and at the time, posting that kind of stuff online just wasn't done. Theaters and/or an appmaker probably could make a decent return on an app that sold tickets for cost+ some number for seats that are unsold if one could solve the problem of managing the inventory and acquiring the customer. It might even be doable for a monthly subscription price with the upfront caveat being that 3D/XD/first-week releases would not be available on the app.

This shit, though? It's crazy pants and any investors who paid money into it deserve to lose their shit. ALL THEIR SHIT.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 29, 2018, 02:17:25 PM
"Lose money until we're a monopoly" is VC catnip. The more money you plan on losing, the more lucrative the potential monopoly.

--Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: IainC on July 29, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Theaters and/or an appmaker probably could make a decent return on an app that sold tickets for cost+ some number for seats that are unsold if one could solve the problem of managing the inventory and acquiring the customer.
I'm not sure that works so well for cinemas where a lot of the traffic is last minute box-office sales anyway. I guess you could ringfence a bunch of second/third week tickets as 'unsold inventory' on the basis that they probably will be, but it's not as predictable on a per-instance basis as hotels/cruise ships/airlines.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on July 30, 2018, 12:53:40 AM
Theaters and/or an appmaker probably could make a decent return on an app that sold tickets for cost+ some number for seats that are unsold if one could solve the problem of managing the inventory and acquiring the customer.
I'm not sure that works so well for cinemas where a lot of the traffic is last minute box-office sales anyway. I guess you could ringfence a bunch of second/third week tickets as 'unsold inventory' on the basis that they probably will be, but it's not as predictable on a per-instance basis as hotels/cruise ships/airlines.

It also hasn't worked out so well for Hotels and Cruise ships because people know that they can find last minute deals and therefore wait. There have been significant substitution effects in those markets.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on July 30, 2018, 04:41:47 PM
I heard a presentation by a producer a few years back where he talked about the movie theater biz. On one hand, it's incredibly crucial to the basic business model of film production. If you don't make a good first weekend, the entire rest of your revenue stream is usually, though not always, borked. (You can occasionally do really well on theatrical releases outside the US while tanking here; or every once in a while, you hit it big in the first round of PPV on cable because for some reason lots of people wanted to see your movie but didn't see it in theaters.)

If you have a film that's in the theaters for 3-5 weeks and doing decent business, almost all of your business is done on Thurs-Fri-Sat-Sun matinee. Sun night it starts to fall off. Monday-Wednesday theater owners would just as soon close because almost nobody goes to the movies, but they've found in many cases that if they close, people stop coming altogether to their theater--it has a rebound effect. So they reluctantly stay open.

I asked the guy why everybody doesn't go Alamo Drafthouse and redo their theaters as fairly good drinks-and-food and then during the week show movies with really small rental costs that might entice some audiences out. He basically shrugged and said, "because it's an industry with a relatively limited imagination, just like the movie industry itself". But I've noticed that slowly that's actually starting to happen--a lot of theaters are putting in new super comfortable seats that you book directly (no more showing up and having to split up a four or five-person group or sit in the first row) and many are adding (bad) food and booze.

If you coupled a better theater experience with more interesting mid-week shows, a coupon/pass approach might be a good mechanism to go along with it. But that's the thing with crowdsourcing/ecommerce start-ups. None of them are really intended to be serious attempts to build up an established economy of some kind or to add value to it. They're almost all scams, many of them looking to cannibalize some existing public goods or some underdefended business sector.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Samwise on July 30, 2018, 04:48:03 PM
I asked the guy why everybody doesn't go Alamo Drafthouse and redo their theaters as fairly good drinks-and-food and then during the week show movies with really small rental costs that might entice some audiences out.

100x this.

I wanted to see They Live at my local Drafthouse and it's sold out two weeks in advance.  On a Monday night.  Don't tell me nobody goes to movies on weeknights.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on July 30, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
They had five showings of they live in Austin, all of them had shit seats within hours of announcement.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Ironwood on July 31, 2018, 04:28:01 AM
I asked the guy why everybody doesn't go Alamo Drafthouse and redo their theaters as fairly good drinks-and-food and then during the week show movies with really small rental costs that might entice some audiences out.

100x this.

I wanted to see They Live at my local Drafthouse and it's sold out two weeks in advance.  On a Monday night.  Don't tell me nobody goes to movies on weeknights.   :awesome_for_real:

Yes, it's true ; there are a lot of sad people out there.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on July 31, 2018, 05:25:44 PM
Selling "unsold seats in a movie already running" doesn't really make sense for the movie theater operator except as a driver of concession sales because iirc, they don't pay the movie distributor per movie shown they pay per ticket sold. It doesn't work like last minute hotels, cruise ship cabins, or airline tickets.

The reason you can buy discounted same day tickets for Broadway productions is that they pay their royalties (and salaries for cast and crew) per performance so every extra seat sold is more money regardless of price paid.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on July 31, 2018, 06:34:51 PM
I'm pretty sure you are right. The production companies make all the money on the movies. Theaters make money only on concessions.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on August 01, 2018, 11:27:09 AM
Getting butts in seats on unsold tickets would increase concession sales, but you're probably right in that the money involved is not going to be enough to get this kind of thing off the ground. That may be why no one has done it - well, in addition to the fact that most theater chains (which is where this would have to come from) probably still aren't forward thinking enough to figure out how to stop their eroding market other than idiotic jiggle chairs (see the Cinemark D Box experience - or don't because why would you?).


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on August 01, 2018, 01:32:02 PM
I only go for IMAX 3D. Otherwise, that's why I have a big tv.

Fiancee LOVES going to our shitty local theater, I'll never understand it. Pay a ton for shitty concessions, hold your pee or miss part of the movie, strangers being humans. She will also bitch about my sound system being too loud during movies but loves the theater where it's poorly tuned and way too loud for the space.

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on August 06, 2018, 09:13:43 AM
I think tradition is a bigger influence over people's minds than any of us would feel comfortable admitting.  Or maybe she just has a Life On Mars thing going.

As for theater companies (not to be confused with theatre companies), if you ever make friends with someone who works at one, you'll find that they are like every other business on the planet and you'll wonder how any of them stay solvent.  THEN you'll realize that everyone is a greedy, shortsighted doofus and it's your own expectations of our species that need to be adjusted.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on August 06, 2018, 01:28:10 PM
Yes. It's why I both laugh and scream every time some douchenozzle talks about how running the government like a business would be so much better.

Virtually every business on earth is just as full of waste and incompetence, and most survive just fine that way--signally because part of their function is to find scapegoats when something goes wrong and to make sure that the scapegoat has no choice but to fall on their sword.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on August 07, 2018, 08:50:30 AM
you'll realize that everyone is a greedy, shortsighted doofus and it's your own expectations of our species that need to be adjusted.
No, I'm good on that front  :cthulu:

Actually, I've canonized it as the defining traits of humanity: selfish, short-sighted, and stupid.

Cherish exceptions, don't expect them.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Abagadro on August 12, 2018, 01:12:55 AM
Move over Juicer, now we have JUISIR!

https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/1028005563752427521


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on August 12, 2018, 01:41:37 AM
Best comment is “2 juice 2 ero”


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on August 12, 2018, 01:54:10 AM
$800 to squeeze fruit? The fuck is wrong with people?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on August 12, 2018, 03:44:10 AM
Looking down the twit twitter thread, what half the people are bitching about the fact that this thing uses a plastic bag. AAAH PLASTIC THEREFORE EEEVIL!!


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Shannow on August 13, 2018, 12:53:30 PM
just eat the fucking fruit you tools.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on August 13, 2018, 02:17:58 PM
just eat the fucking fruit you tools.

NO! We want Juice!  If they could just stick the juice in a box with a spout that you open it would all be good.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on August 13, 2018, 03:26:20 PM
just eat the fucking fruit you tools.

NO! We want Juice!  If they could just stick the juice in a box with a spout that you open it would all be good.

Can.. can I maybe use a straw? Maybe a sharp one that I could stick through the side of the box???

Boy I'd throw some VC capital at that!


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on August 13, 2018, 03:53:01 PM
Since everybody's so environmentally conscious today what we really should do is take some of the water out of juices (which consumers can add back themselves) so it costs much less to transport and takes less room to stock and store. We could even freeze it so it lasts much longer (less waste from juices expiring).


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on August 13, 2018, 05:11:58 PM
You mean like concentrate? What am I, a fucking savage?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on August 13, 2018, 05:33:38 PM
With the right messaging I'm sure the hipsters will be into it :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Abagadro on August 13, 2018, 06:18:37 PM
Plus you can use the concentrate to make an Orange Julius.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sky on August 13, 2018, 09:57:04 PM
When it says 3 cans of water it means vodka.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on August 13, 2018, 10:32:32 PM
Move over Juicer, now we have JUISIR!

https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/1028005563752427521

Apparently Juisir was at one point JUlaVIE, and Juicero already sued them. But with Juicero gone, the Chinese-made Juisir marches on.

This article in Chinese reveals some things via Google Translate: https://36kr.com/p/5147962.html - The writers see it as a scam.

For example, the classic Juicero boast was that its squeeze pressure was equivalent to the amount needed to lift two Teslas. The Juisir website in Chinese mimics almost the same marketing copy, but boasts that it has the power to lift four Teslas.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on August 13, 2018, 11:22:20 PM
my hands can lift six teslas, but i never need to exert that much to juice a bag of mushy fruit parts


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on August 14, 2018, 10:14:32 AM
How the fuck is it harder and somehow worse to just open a bottle of pre-prepared juice (yes I know, lots of sugars and such) than to cut up fruit bits, drop them in a bag and watch an overpriced hipster ego massaging vice grip squeeze the bits into pulpy fruit vampire slushies?


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on August 14, 2018, 10:38:21 AM
I don't feel like explaining fruit and shelf life to you.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Yegolev on August 14, 2018, 03:55:46 PM
Talk of FCOJ reminds me of Trading Places.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Sir T on August 14, 2018, 05:29:10 PM
For all your FCOJ price graph needs.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: slog on August 15, 2018, 02:36:11 PM
Since this is now the "stupid buisnesses of the internet age" thread, I present to you: MoviePass!

Quote
The owners of MoviePass need another $1.2 billion.
Helios and Matheson (HMNY), parent company of the popular movie subscription service, told regulators Monday that it wants to sell that much in stock and debt securities.

MoviePass exploded in popularity because of its low price. For just $10 a month, about the cost of a single movie ticket in most places, MoviePass subscribers can see one movie a day.

But the company loses money when its customers use a pass, because it must pay theaters for the tickets



This is brilliant.  Lose billions selling a subscription service to movies because you are just buying tickets at face value.


Update

MoviePass just lost $132 a share and it's trading at 5¢ !

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/15/news/companies/moviepass-losses-mount/index.html


It has burned through more than $219 million in cash since the beginning of the year. Most of that money, more than $150 million, has been spent in the last quarter.

Meanwhile, the company's cash reserves are dwindling. It has only $15.5 million in cash on its balance sheet, plus another $28.7 million held by payments processors. Helios and Matheson warned that "without raising additional capital, there is substantial doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern."


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on August 15, 2018, 08:02:33 PM
They recently reduced the number of movies you can see per month to 3 (with a discount on additional ones) to try and slow down the hemorrhaging. They also used that change in plan to "uncancel" some people's subscriptions.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/8/14/17687732/moviepass-cant-cancel-opt-in-email-app



Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Goumindong on August 15, 2018, 08:12:11 PM
Since this is now the "stupid buisnesses of the internet age" thread, I present to you: MoviePass!

Quote
The owners of MoviePass need another $1.2 billion.
Helios and Matheson (HMNY), parent company of the popular movie subscription service, told regulators Monday that it wants to sell that much in stock and debt securities.

MoviePass exploded in popularity because of its low price. For just $10 a month, about the cost of a single movie ticket in most places, MoviePass subscribers can see one movie a day.

But the company loses money when its customers use a pass, because it must pay theaters for the tickets



This is brilliant.  Lose billions selling a subscription service to movies because you are just buying tickets at face value.


Update

MoviePass just lost $132 a share and it's trading at 5¢ !

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/15/news/companies/moviepass-losses-mount/index.html


It has burned through more than $219 million in cash since the beginning of the year. Most of that money, more than $150 million, has been spent in the last quarter.

Meanwhile, the company's cash reserves are dwindling. It has only $15.5 million in cash on its balance sheet, plus another $28.7 million held by payments processors. Helios and Matheson warned that "without raising additional capital, there is substantial doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern."

Its actually worse than that :P

Those are the top end numbers, but as the article notes there was a reverse 250-1 split on the stock. Which means that they took 250 of every stock and replaced it with 1 (in order to keep it from being delisted by NASDAQ). So the actual price jump was 132 dollars to .02 cents


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Tale on August 15, 2018, 09:01:51 PM
In the late 1990s, venture capitalists and investors pumped $35 million into a dotcom called Pixelon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixelon) that claimed to have perfected video streaming technology (which was then new).

It spent $16 million of that on a product launch called iBASH '99 hosted by David Spade and Cindy Margolis at the MGM Grand Las Vegas, featuring Chely Wright, LeAnn Rimes, Faith Hill, Dixie Chicks, Sugar Ray, Natalie Cole, KISS, Tony Bennett, The Brian Setzer Orchestra, and a reunion of The Who.

Pixelon's stream of the event failed to work on its own software. A few people managed to access it via Microsoft streaming software. Because Pixelon did not actually have a working product. Its CEO Michael Fenne turned out to be a convicted conman called David Kim Stanley. People who visited the company reported that he summoned staff to prayer meetings over an intercom with "This is the Master speaking..." and signed emails as Big Giant Head of Pixelon.

Are we back there yet? Because that's when the crash happened.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on August 15, 2018, 09:22:07 PM
$35 million is peanuts compared to the $724 million that Theranos raised.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Abagadro on August 15, 2018, 09:32:43 PM
Quote
Those are the top end numbers, but as the article notes there was a reverse 250-1 split on the stock. Which means that they took 250 of every stock and replaced it with 1 (in order to keep it from being delisted by NASDAQ). So the actual price jump was 132 dollars to .02 cents

Not exactly. Price wasn't 132 dollars and then went down. It posted a quarterly $132 dollar per share loss.

The 250-1 reverse split happened 3 weeks ago to bring the share price up to $21 per share. That newly minted share, which used to be $21 dollars and replaced 250 previous shares, is now worth 5 cents.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Paelos on August 16, 2018, 10:35:13 AM
In the late 1990s, venture capitalists and investors pumped $35 million into a dotcom called Pixelon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixelon) that claimed to have perfected video streaming technology (which was then new).

It spent $16 million of that on a product launch called iBASH '99 hosted by David Spade and Cindy Margolis at the MGM Grand Las Vegas, featuring Chely Wright, LeAnn Rimes, Faith Hill, Dixie Chicks, Sugar Ray, Natalie Cole, KISS, Tony Bennett, The Brian Setzer Orchestra, and a reunion of The Who.

Pixelon's stream of the event failed to work on its own software. A few people managed to access it via Microsoft streaming software. Because Pixelon did not actually have a working product. Its CEO Michael Fenne turned out to be a convicted conman called David Kim Stanley. People who visited the company reported that he summoned staff to prayer meetings over an intercom with "This is the Master speaking..." and signed emails as Big Giant Head of Pixelon.

Are we back there yet? Because that's when the crash happened.

Yes, we're very close to the crash. All my friends and compatriots have abandoned the market completely and we're holding the money in cash and/or real estate holdings with rental incomes.

EDIT: I've said before, I'll be SHOCKED if it's not in 2019. I'm seeing full-money stupidity at massive levels. The banks are investing in horrible real estate deals. Stuff is half-sold or half-rented and they just keep building more and more for the elite, and next to nothing for the middle or lower classes. It'll implode because there's not going to be enough growth to handle it, and China's economy along with several other controlled economies is a complete sham. Not to mention most businesses are sucking up cheap money to cover hundreds of sins.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on August 16, 2018, 10:46:47 AM
The commercial real estate market in my town is cruising for a crash. They've continued to build swanky new digs when there are TONS of empty office spaces in slightly less desired areas (like downtown where I work) and even with the new spaces, those are at best half-full.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: NowhereMan on August 16, 2018, 10:54:15 AM
Woohoo! Looking at global economic crash and Brexit both for next year.

I'm off to start hoarding whiskey because I can't afford gold right now.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Hawkbit on August 16, 2018, 11:28:57 AM
The commercial real estate market in my town is cruising for a crash. They've continued to build swanky new digs when there are TONS of empty office spaces in slightly less desired areas (like downtown where I work) and even with the new spaces, those are at best half-full.

Even Seattle's market is cooling. Last month was the first month in five years my property value did not increase. As we put the screws to China on tariffs their currency values dropped, so they can't buy as much and they have cooled on buying property. We expected things to plateau here soon, but we didn't expect the Chinese to stop purchasing like they did.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on August 16, 2018, 11:37:28 AM
Haemish lives in Mississippi.
You live in Seattle.

These places have different issues, but tell you what, THEY ARE NOT ALIKE.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Mandella on August 16, 2018, 11:39:02 AM
In the late 1990s, venture capitalists and investors pumped $35 million into a dotcom called Pixelon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixelon) that claimed to have perfected video streaming technology (which was then new).

It spent $16 million of that on a product launch called iBASH '99 hosted by David Spade and Cindy Margolis at the MGM Grand Las Vegas, featuring Chely Wright, LeAnn Rimes, Faith Hill, Dixie Chicks, Sugar Ray, Natalie Cole, KISS, Tony Bennett, The Brian Setzer Orchestra, and a reunion of The Who.

Pixelon's stream of the event failed to work on its own software. A few people managed to access it via Microsoft streaming software. Because Pixelon did not actually have a working product. Its CEO Michael Fenne turned out to be a convicted conman called David Kim Stanley. People who visited the company reported that he summoned staff to prayer meetings over an intercom with "This is the Master speaking..." and signed emails as Big Giant Head of Pixelon.

Are we back there yet? Because that's when the crash happened.

Yes, we're very close to the crash. All my friends and compatriots have abandoned the market completely and we're holding the money in cash and/or real estate holdings with rental incomes.



Yep.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on August 16, 2018, 11:47:21 AM
Woohoo! Looking at global economic crash and Brexit both for next year.

I'm off to start hoarding whiskey because I can't afford gold right now.
Well, with the rate at which single malt has been climbing year after year because of global demand increase (and you can't just suddenly start producing more 15 year scotch), that actually might not be a bad investment.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: HaemishM on August 16, 2018, 11:49:05 AM
Haemish lives in Mississippi.
You live in Seattle.

These places have different issues, but tell you what, THEY ARE NOT ALIKE.

Yeah, it'll be much fucking worse when the shit goes tits up here. Outside investment from the Chinese isn't really a thing here. This is all local developers pissing away the money they borrowed from their dumbass local bank buddies at the yacht club.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Hawkbit on August 16, 2018, 12:37:13 PM
I didn't mean to imply they are the same at all, apologies. Seattle has been very insulated economically for at least 30 years. We took a bath on trying to sell our Ohio house in 2014 after trying to be distance landlords. During the 2008 crash Seattle housing prices at worst plateaued and we might get away with only a plateau or minor dip as crash 2.0 begins here soon.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Trippy on August 16, 2018, 12:58:13 PM
Woohoo! Looking at global economic crash and Brexit both for next year.

I'm off to start hoarding whiskey because I can't afford gold right now.
High-end Japanese whisky is where it's at if you want to speculate (and can find it).

Well, with the rate at which single malt has been climbing year after year because of global demand increase (and you can't just suddenly start producing more 15 year scotch), that actually might not be a bad investment.
To deal with this situation more and more distillers are releasing "no-age statement" expressions to increase their volume while also keeping the prices in check.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: schild on August 16, 2018, 03:56:27 PM
Buy art (good luck).


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on August 16, 2018, 05:01:52 PM
The commercial real estate market in my town is cruising for a crash. They've continued to build swanky new digs when there are TONS of empty office spaces in slightly less desired areas (like downtown where I work) and even with the new spaces, those are at best half-full.

Even Seattle's market is cooling. Last month was the first month in five years my property value did not increase. As we put the screws to China on tariffs their currency values dropped, so they can't buy as much and they have cooled on buying property. We expected things to plateau here soon, but we didn't expect the Chinese to stop purchasing like they did.

The tariffs are not most of why the Chinese are not buying as much property, tariffs have not been in effect long enough for that. Xi's "anti-corruption" campaign has been clamping down on people who spent the last 15 years using the money they made in China buying property/cars/etc. in the West. Mainly because most of them were supporters of his predecessors and did not owe their fortunes to him.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Brolan on August 16, 2018, 09:06:21 PM
My brother-in-law is an architect in Seattle and he said the real estate market has hit a wall there, with little new sales or related business.   :ye_gods:

He predicts it will sweep the country.  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Chimpy on August 16, 2018, 09:18:55 PM
My brother-in-law is an architect in Seattle and he said the real estate market has hit a wall there, with little new sales or related business.   :ye_gods:

He predicts it will sweep the country.  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:

There has been a glut of construction over the last 3-4 years that is almost all the type that isn't needed (mainly luxury stuff) all over the world.




Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Teleku on August 17, 2018, 03:53:07 AM
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/b/b3/Grumpy_Cat-Good.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130929182255)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: rattran on August 17, 2018, 09:39:03 AM
Driving across northern Illinois this week (on back roads, fuck paying tolls) Everything had for sale signs, and there were tons of McMansion developments.  Surprisingly, the same seemed to apply to southern Wisconsin. Collapse imminent.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: Khaldun on August 17, 2018, 02:31:01 PM
Weirdly enough, one of the five tightest real estate markets in the country is Nebraska, but there's a bunch of local reasons for that rather than the sudden desire of most of the country to live there.

I think real estate is another of those things too big to fail, in some sense. A lot of the excess cash sloshing around global markets has been quietly dumped through holding companies into buying stuff left vacant in 2008, and I think some of that money is still out there looking to buy everything it can, simply as an investment hedge.


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: calapine on September 15, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5ep1w5s.jpg)


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MahrinSkel on September 15, 2018, 11:12:18 PM
Welcome to the future. Dystopia to be patched in later.

-Dave


Title: Re: $400 WiFi-enabled 4-ton-force juicer's $120 million fail
Post by: MisterNoisy on September 24, 2018, 05:42:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5ep1w5s.jpg)

Was this at a Hungry Howie's?