f13.net

Legends of Tomorrow is going to series.  It is the Arrow/Flashverse show with the 'other' heroes assembled as a team. http://tvline.com/2015/05/07/the-cw-new-series-fall-2015-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/#more-611032 (http://tvline.com/2015/05/07/the-cw-new-series-fall-2015-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/#more-611032)

I like some of the cast, but it screams of C list characters ... they'd have been better off with 1 or 2 real JL types in there...

So Firestorm, Black Canary, Rip Hunter, Atom, Captain Cold and Heat Wave. In DC terms, I don't think any of those are necessarily C listers. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how much I like Flash and Arrow.

How is Black Canary still alive in that universe. I thought for sure that she took a chest full of arrows.

Rip Hunter is a time traveller. I'm guessing he pulled her out of the time stream prior to her death.  :awesome_for_real:

Either that or there will be a reveal in the finale of Arrow...

... or she might not be the Canary in the show.  I have not seen her character confirmed, yet - in fact, IGN says her role is a secret.  I could see her being a character that is in make-up and there being no connection.  Or another character that decides to look like her because she died a hero... Miss Martian?

The C list heroes works better. Less fanboys frothing over power levels and what those characters do in the comics. The Flash gets away with a lot because

A. The Flash isn't Superman and no one thinks a flash movie would work (nor is anyone asking for one)
B. Not as popular as Superman or WonderWoman so he is effectively a B-lister despite being literally the strongest member of the Justice League
C. Not even hardcore neckbeared comic book fans wants to see a Flash with a 100% access to his powers 100% of the time. No one is crying on the forums about how he just doesn't just vibrate through everything or travel through time every time he fucked up.

Not having to worry about de-powering the heroes or messing with sacred lore has its own appeal and gives them room to tell there own stories.
 

Pretty sure almost anyone that is into the Flash/Arrow stuff would love to see movies for those characters.  Just not by whoever is in charge of the current DC movie lineup, which DC isn't even sure who it is.

Thats because CW made them good. Minus CW and no one even talked about a Flash movie let alone Green Arrow. Hell we'll never get a Hawkeye movie from Marvel.

I dunno I was pumped at the thought of SuperMax that was in production years ago, and that was to be a Green Arrow movie.  I've always been a Flash fan, and would be happy to have seen a Flash movie made by capable people.

As for Hawkeye he's had what?  35 solo comics over the years?  Unless they did something based off the newest run, he's really thin on stuff outside of the Avengers.  He doesn't really have his own iconic personal villain.  At least not one I can name.  I think Renner could totally pull off a solo movie, but I don't know what kind of story they could give him that would fit into the current story line.  That is one thing I am skeptical about with Ant-Man, although Rudd has been confirmed for Cap 3.

They have already shown lazarus pits exist in the arrow verse so death is not a career ending injury.

First trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MubNoWQiSc).

FUCK YES.

Yeah that looks amazing.  Now CW just needs to nab Constantine and rename it Hellblazer. 

Vandal Savage! Good move!

Interesting... I'd love to see them grab Constantine too, but if they keep it up they'll end up with a schedule that is entirely DC.

They can do one show a night.   :awesome_for_real:

CW just went all in on super heroes.  Remember the days of being cautious and calling the green arrow the vigilante? Well now we have time traveling team of superheroes and villains(One of which back from the dead) fighting an immortal caveman while traveling to different eras in history.   The show may be great but CW went full retard with the comic bookiness and I can't wait to see how it turns out.

This is a midseason show apparently and only runs 13 episodes. 

That's kind of perfect.

Yeah, i was wondering how they were going to have flash and arrow in two shows.  This makes perfect sense.

Flash and Arrow are episode 1 guest stars.... and I'm betting that is Flash and Green Arrow.

The more shows I see doing it, the more I like the idea of 13 episode seasons. As we saw with Arrow this season, 22/23 episode seasons can REALLY stretch shows that try to rely heavily on week-to-week continuity. 13-episodes are just long enough to leave us wanting more at the end.

I'm really not loving the lineup. 

Being honest here, how many people would have been far more interested if the lineup dropped a couple people and replaced them with Ted Kord's Blue Beetle and Booster Gold?

Agreed.  Arrow really dragged for me, hard to keep going (still haven't seen the season ender).  But this, this looks pretty cool.  More Caity Lotz in skintight outfits?  Sign me the fuck up!  A bit puzzled why two members have fire powers, but overall I'm very pleased CW has gone 'all in' on superheroes.  May be great, may be a trainwreck, but I'm watching it.

Firestorm should evolve into a lot more than just fire powers and flying...

The ten people that know who those two are would be thrilled.

Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle would be rad.

That's pretty much my thought as well, I know who those two are and I still don't care if they are used or not.

You'd be right ... except for little things like lists where comic fans vote for their favorite DC characters and those two were higher than everyone in the show... (12 and 15 vs. 18 (Black Canary counts), 21 (I'll give you credit for Hawkman when we say Hawkwoman), 36 (Firestorm), and unranked (Atom), unranked (Rip Hunter), unranked (Cold) and unranked (Heat))

[url][/http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/10/01/top-100-dc-and-marvel-characters-master-list/url]

And before you say the usual junk about non-comic fans... the only people that know any of these characters are comic fans. 

Which is exactly why it doesn't matter.  Comic books fans are not going to say "no blue beetle? fuck this show that is essentially a wet dream of mine since I was a teen" and non comic book fans could care less and watch for fun no matter what.

What he said.

Although, I wouldn't rule out Blue Beetle in the future, as I think we've seen Kord Industries easter eggs at some point in either Arrow or Flash. And seeing as how Booster Gold is from the future, I could totally see him appearing on either this or Flash.

Doesn't the CW version of Atom basically cover what Blue Beetle would be, though?  Super rich industry dude with all sorts of technogadgets.  Maybe Kord could be used to set up the Jaime Reyes version, like they did in Young Justice.  As to Booster Gold, his schtick is sorta covered too, and I'm not sure adding him in would accomplish much. 

Unless they bring in new characters for temporary arcs, I don't see the lineup changing much on the show.  And with a 13 episode season, I don't know that they'll have a whole lot of room to accomplish that if they wanted to. 

Atom was supposed to be Blue Beetle but DC told them no.  That's why there were all those Blue Beetle easter eggs in the first season.

Oh.  Huh.  Seems weird they'd say no to the shows using Blue Beetle of all characters. 

There was supposedly a Blue Beetle show in the works that just never came about.  I even think it was TNT and then they went the Titans route maybe.

Yea, there was test footage around the internet for awhile. Was going to be the Jaime Reyes one with the scarab.

Rory ?  What the hell.

Timelord by process of osmosis.

I trust his artistic abilities to the fullest. Not only did he do a good job in Doctor Who, he also managed to say "I'm a member of the time masters" without saying "Time Lord" instead or starting to giggle.

So, he'll be fine.  :awesome_for_real:

The Rory role proved to me how good an actor Darvill is because that character could so easily have been an utter throwaway comic relief cutout. Instead, he became one of my favorite companions, to the point I was pissed about how they took him out like a punk. He'll do fine as Rip Hunter.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/15/8610005/legends-of-tomorrow-dc-comics-trailer-the-cw-tv-show

Time to get on that 2016 time machine.

Not really what I meant, either of you.

I have no idea who Rip Hunter is.  So, for me, that trailer just had Rory in a big coat.

It threw me right out of any immersion I had.  It's Rory.  In a Big Coat.

I'm starting to worry I have some sort of facial recognition issue because I never recognise any of these actors I've seen in other shows (or almost never). Like aside from very distinctive guys like John Cleese or Benedict Cumberbatch my brain just glosses over them and latches onto the big coat. Though it means casting is rarely immersion breaking for me and I think Rory could make a good Rip.

I don't watch doctor who...

You're like my wife.  She can't do it AT ALL.  It's hilarious watching her try too.

As to the casting itself, I like the actor.  I'm sure he'll bring the general level of the show up.  He did with Who.  Not that it was hard.

That's not really fair. The level of acting was, I thought, always good when Rory was on there. It's always been the Moffat that's fucked the whole thing to hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7LlmaFg0lw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7LlmaFg0lw)

First official LoT trailer.  This is looking really good.   :drill:

Yes it is. 

Because the movies can never do a proper a justice league, here a justice league enjoy.

Welp, I'm erect.

Looks cool as fuck but isn't two hawk people a bit redundant?

You shut your dirty whore mouth.

Two hawk people are better than one! Just kidding although from what I remember in the comics you almost never got just one of them they were almost always a package deal.

Current rumors have Constantine swapping into the cast for the 2017 Season 2.  Take it for what you will.... I hope it is true.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11/26/constantine-to-join-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-in-2017-as-they-switch-cast-with-each-season/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11/26/constantine-to-join-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-in-2017-as-they-switch-cast-with-each-season/)

This starts tonight if anyone forgot.   :awesome_for_real:

I didn't know how much I wanted this until now.

I didn't out right hate it?

The following is a recap of the last fight of the episode if you have not watched it:

I knew it was going to be silly and campy, but man. I think its the fight scenes that are going to drive me nuts. The bar fight with Canary was fine, but that final "boss" fight, ugh. Uh oh, a guy with guns is shooting at our ship! Hawkgirl fies in, knocks him down, then wrestles with him for his gun - so far so good. The Hawkdouche flies in and saves her and... they both fly away so he can pick his gun back up. Then we have a bunch of running and ducking, followed by the two heavy hitters flying out to save the day... by doing a neat little coordinated strafing run ten feet to either side of the stationary bad guy who's about 30 feet from them  :uhrr:

Then the old guy gets shot by a random bullet because of timey whimey, and they all jump in the ship and hightail it out of there because they apparently are heavily overmatched by dude with a gun who sounds like Optimus Prime.
A dude they knocked on his ass three separate times during the fight, but it apparently never ocured to them to actually just dogpile him.

I particularly loved pyro guy's gun that shoots fire about six feet out and knocks people over without burning them.

All that said, it was somewhat fun and I liked the vast majority of the cast.

There has to be SOME reason they died 216 times before.* I can't place my finger on it, though...  :awesome_for_real:


*I didn't watch it myself, but walked-in on my wife watching it when Hawkgirl was freaking-out about dying so many times to Savage in the past.

I watched it because I like Family Feud and that came on before this. I'm not a comic book person and know nothing about these things.

I thought it was fun in the old Batman show sort of way. Everyone is overacting like crazy, and it includes two of my favorite character actors from Prison Break as bad guys. Plus hot blonde is hot.

I like Time Travel shit which is the main reason I stuck with this. Vandal Savage is a pretty douchey villain but oh well. British Timelord will give him the business I'm sure after many setbacks.

This is basically the suicide squad minus the grim dark implications. In fact it kinda reads like one of the better teen titans runs where they go on missions and half the teen cast dies horrible or get maimed. Will they go in that direction? No, but it could and it'd raise the show to the flash and arrow levels of enjoyment. I like the plot. I hate, oh god I hate the cheese. They need to tighten up this script before this becomes legends of unwatchability. And yeah fight scenes kinda lame. Like they just watched young justice and figure they replicate or they recently found an episode of the mighty morphan power rangers.

It isn't high drama.  It is just intended to be stupid fun.  It hit the mark.  I enjoyed watching it, but have no concerns whether it makes a lot of sense.

I think they're focusing more on the character interactions than plot. And I'm actually okay with that.

I thought it was fine so far.  I really liked the bar scene. 

Also I fucking love the Prison Break guys... Dominic Purcell is awesome as Heat Wave.

The bar fight was the best scene.

It was kind of a mess but appealing in an odd way despite it.

But the this-makes-no-fucking-sense is going to catch up with it pretty quickly.

Prison break dudes and hot blonde can save this with more screen time

Hopefully; because the rest was absolute shit. Way, way too much cheese (and poor delivery of the cheese, especially from Hawk-man). Also, really not liking the Firestorm duo. The professor isn't too bad, but, ugh.. I disliked Ronnie and he was miles better than the new kid. Rip Hunter has been a miss for me, as well.

They're either going to have to unload a bunch of absolute nonsense timey-wimey rules about why they don't just go back to ancient Egypt and kill Vandal Savage before he gets started or change up the premise really fast.

Edit:also, Professor Stein having knock-out drugs right by his brandy is a bit :ye_gods:

They seem to be headed to the idea that there has to be a balance when you change history - change it too much, and you upset everything in the future.  They'll spend time fixing the messes they made - likely the next stop will be after 1970 and the world will be different because of the bar fight.

Of course, that is idiocy.  The smallest of changes in the past would have a cascading impact all over the future.  The slightest of changes in positioning would change how a conception plays out, a person looking across a room a second later would change whether they meet their future spouse, etc...  Any change to the past should have big changes in futures that are years down the road...

They have a multiverse. Technically every change they make in the past could create a parallel universe. Though I think there multiverse is more based on number of possible potential universes as oppose to actual diverging decisions. More like "what ifs" than "if you did this instead"

I think it's pretty clear they've abandoned the extreme butterfly effect vision of the timeline when it's clear Rip is selecting people based on their minimal importance to the timeline (and Chronos is happy to waste random dudes who aren't important). No it doesn't really make sense, it's a comic book version of history, if you're not in a major title then you probably don't matter. Thus I think they'll less be fixing their messes and more dealing with the timeline trying to undo what they've done in order to fix itself. Suddenly Vandal Savage will have dealt with his defeat in the former Soviet Republics by getting a massive break in East Africa a year later or something.

Rip could be lying--a sort of double lie, whatever will motivate or not--you are legends or you are irrelevant.

I liked it. I think a lot of the valid problems you all had with it was because they were trying to squeeze so much into only a one hour show - it really could have used some breathing room. But we not only had to re-introduce 8 characters who you actually may NOT be familiar with if you haven't watched the other shows, but also introduce 2 new characters (Rip and his computer), set up the villain and the rules for time travel and the time council, all in about 42 minutes. That's a lot, which is why the obligatory fight scene with Chronos was so abbreviated. I think as they take their time with each episode that part of it should get better. I did like the interactions of the cast and yes, the Prison Break guys were definitely the standouts.

Computer isn't a new character :awesome_for_real:

Yeah I'm curious if Thawne will bump into them at some time and what will happen then.

Edit: I'm also curious what era the Time Masters are from because

Lots of possibilities there. They can be like the Time Lords, complacent. Or perhaps more fun, what if Vandal Savage *is* a Time Master and Rip Hunter doesn't know it? (Or some other reason why they're corrupt/untrustworthy). And there's always ye olde "you were meant to do this but we couldn't tell you so we had to pretend you weren't meant to do it" so beloved in time travel stories.

If they are in face from an even more distant future than Savage it would be kind of interesting if, for them, this was pretty much a go back in time to kill Hitler move from Rip. I'd be curious to see if they actually went into throwing some moral doubt into his whole mission. Of course it's a DC TV show so that's not going to happen.

I thought the pacing of episode 2 was better, felt like they tried to cram less in

Yeah, 2nd half of the pilot was a bit better.  Plus the fight scenes were fun here.

Above watchable level, but also worst of the 4 Berlanti DC shows as well.... so far. The time travel rules are ... bad, but I'm not going to let that bother me too much.

If your counting Supergirl... err yeah Legends is soo much better.

It isn't just by my counting... but we can disagree. Flash is the best right now in my book, Arrow has lost a step over the seasons, Supergirl has flaws, but they've nailed a few things ... Legends just has too many characters that disappoint. White Canary is the most disappointing to me. She nailed Black Canary when she was introduced ed on Arrow, but this Canary seems... bored? She fit much better on Arrow.

Found the one guy on the internet that seems to dislike sara.

I'm more Team Arrow than Flash, but there both pretty good with flaws you can give a pass. Pilot 1 and 2 for Legends isn't exactly night and day but it is a noticeable improvement. They kinda found what to do with each character and sending them off to interact in teams work wonders. Palmer being hopelessly useless is funny is a sad yet earnest in a way. The brothers have dialed down the ham and are sounding more natural, the walking fusion reactor twins from another mother are pretty good (but cheesy) foils for each other. Genre savvy Vandal Savage was fun to see, you get the menace and the hate.

Did anyone but me wonder how all these explosions and fireworks doesn't leave a trail of mangled bodies? How are they not changing the past to non hilarious affect at this point?

I enjoy your talents for simultaneous incoherence and contradiction of the general consensus. Is there a website you use to figure out how to do that, or is it just instinct?

Hmm don't you still watch Gotham and Supergirl?

While Part 1 felt kinda disjointed, Part 2 hit almost all the right notes for me. Heatwave and Cold were so freaking fun to watch, Palmer was more balanced between doofus and awesome science guy, lol stoned superheroes too.  Huh.

And god yes, the action scenes were amazing to watch.

Arrow worked best for me in the first season, when it was all character driven, and they seemed to toss random characters in the same room together to see how they'd react to each other, and the plot always advanced and got more interesting. I still like Arrow for what it is, but I just really liked the first season from a storytelling perspective. It looks like LoT is going that route, at least for now.

Don't watch Gotham, because it's really quite bad. Supergirl is decent, though.

I watch Gotham now and then.  I really like the setting, the Penguin, Riddler and Sean Pertwee.  I don't like ANY of the main characters... maybe Donal a little... and the writing is shitey shite shite.  It seems awkward at best.  Still, my sister loves it and as it comes on right after dinner, I see it.  It grew on me.

This version is a disappointment compared to what we saw on Arrow.

She's suppose to be a broken character. She went from shallow valley girl to deadly assassin to regretting her entire life save for the Oliver parts to being dead. Than resurrected as a rage monster with her older sister replacing her and no one caring shes dead in the first place. She's suppose to come off as a bit tired bordering too broken to function.

The second episode was a lot better than the first, though they still need to work on the cheesy dialogue.


The fight scenes were better but they are still falling for the same problem that I have with Arrow's fight scenes this season. There are so many characters to follow in every fight scene that the fights don't seem particularly well choreographed. It just seems like random chaos without any real sense in both shows. Focusing on smaller fights with 3/4 characters works better like when Savage fought the Hawks. That's probably one of the reasons Flash works so well - it's usually only 1-3 people in the fight.

As for Gotham, I like it but you have to completely and utterly divorce your feelings of the Batman mythos from the show itself. It is entirely it's own weird little pocket universe of campy crazy. Nothing makes sense and you either just go with it or go home.

I want to like this but the plot is just so... :ye_gods:

After tonight's episode, I have a feeling

--Dave

You know all those laser blasts? they aren't real either, they do it on computers!  :awesome_for_real:

Who cares where they get the clothing geez.. I thought Caity Lotz was totally rocking those 70's outfits.

I like the show. But they need a better excuse for why they simple didn't get the unconscious/dead savage on their ship. hand hawkgirl the dagger, and just stab him in the chest. I mean he doesn't have super strength or anything, they really could have tied him up and dragged him on board the jumper and just kept killing him till hawkgirl had her turn.

Ya, it's really lazy writing.  There's 100 ways that he could've gotten away and it would've been fine/same outcome.

I stopped watching, I tried to like the show, but I've come to the conclusion that shows about time travel just don't work.  Shows that have time travel as a device to get people into interesting situations are fine, but as soon as time travel becomes the main plot they end up getting lost in a sea of contradictions and paradoxes as they try to create a story that doesn't violate their own arbitrary and poorly thought out rules about time. 

We are the people for whom this show is being made and so far we kind of hate it. The kind of hate where you really look for reasons to like it.

It's a mess. Look, leave aside the fucking unworkable time-travel metaplot, it isn't even a good team show so far. They built it from spare parts but rather than a very tasty sausage made from seemingly incompatible bits, it's more like vomit. There are 'pods' inside the cast who are fun when they interact (Heat Wave, Captain Cold, White Canary; Atom and Martin Stein) but the whole group doesn't have any of the classic team-making ideas backing it. There is almost no idea about who these guys are, what they do, what their relationships are.

One huge, huge, huge problem is Rip Hunter. He's at the center of it for plot reasons and as a character he is an unknowable douchebag with minimal useful powers of his own. I love the actor playing him and the hilarity of his casting but...the character sucks. Sucks. Sucks.

Another huge, huge, huge problem: the guy playing Vandal Savage sucks as an actor. At least they killed Hawkman right off the bat, since that actor was fucking awful, like explosively so. But I almost wish they'd just kill Vandal Savage and then get sucked into some kind of hilarious "we have to travel back slowly through the temporal chaos" thing or some such.

At this point I'd prefer they kill it at the end of Season and give us a different show... Animal Man?

It's a terrible mess in a lot of ways but god damn if I don't tune in every week just for capt. cold/heatwave

I'm also done with it. The reasons to watch it (White Canary, Captain Cold, Heatwave -- to a lesser extent) just aren't enough to make up for how bad the rest of the show is. Not even close, really. I always have issues with time travel based shows (only exception I can think of is Continuum), but I had hoped the Arrow/Flash background would be enough to make it worthwhile, or that they'd manage to pull it off. They haven't. The time travel aspect is horribly done (even by the low standards of Hollywood), most of the cast is either tedious or out-right bad and the writing is incredibly un-even, going from decent to cringe-inducing stupidity.

I deleted the last episode without watching it and terminated the automatic recording schedule for it. I just couldn't muster up the willpower to spend an hour on it.

That drop dead gorgeous girl from Mr Robot makes anything watchable.

I still like this show but it really suffers from uneven writing. Capt. Cold and Heatwave are great, Atom and White Canary are good, and the rest go from decent to mildly irritating to outright stupid at the drop of a hat. The action is all too often completely unfocused and chaotic. The character interactions are really the best parts, and the overall arching meta plot involving Time Council and Rick Hunter are the weakest. I don't think any of the actors themselves are bad but I think they are often given bad dialog that anyone would suffer to get through. Hunter's dialogue is usually the worst of the bunch mainly because he's being made out to be an idiotic douchebag rather than a grieving father and husband.

But I'll keep watching it because it's superheroes and I like superheroes.

I am still enjoying it enough to watch.. I bet it gets better in the back half of the season though.  I think it's just the growing pains of a new show.

Arrow first season really sucked until Malcolm Merlin showed up and saved the show.

I didn't watch the Flash until the mid season cross over special (or when the reverse flash storyline kicked in). I don't have motivations to go back and watch it. I can't stand season 1 Iris (well I still can't stand her but she makes good enough muffle background noises) and Cisco and Caitlin were painful to watch when I jumped in... I can only imagine how grating they must have been from the get go.

Legends is a dumb show but I don't know maybe at this point CW broke me and I wanna watch this more than drop it. I gave walking dead 3 seasons not to fall on its face before I dropped it  :awesome_for_real:

I like it. It's silly but fun and I love the prison break guys

I am giving it a full season. They have so many characters right up front that it is taking them a bit of time to gel I did like this last episode a good bit more than the previous ones still has a way to go to get to arrow let alone flash levels.

I have to say that for some reason the way they handle time travel and trying to kill Savage just feels broken to me. In the latest episode they have Savage at gunpoint and the hawk girl in the same room etc but still they make no effort to put an end to him. Add to that a mushroom cloud (even if small) killing a significant number of people to really drive the point that "timelines"  and changing the past is not a concern for the show's plot...  :oh_i_see:

You missed savage blowing up when they activated the bombs in the room? He had no need to shoot him when he was already going to blow him up. I would likely have still done so just because savage is a dick but its not like they did not "kill" him in as much as he can be killed for any period of time.

Well it changed something because they ended up in some dystopian future at the end.

I mean wasn't the whole point of the series that they want to kill Savage for good and to do that they need hawk girl to get the last blow. If it's just about "stopping" Savage at various points then why not just nuke (or use something slightly less destructive) every point in time (and space) where they think Savage might turn up (since "small" collateral damage clearly isn't a concern).

Step 1: Shoot Savage to incapacitate him.
Step 2: Take him into space and shoot him towards the sun.
Step 3: Taco Bell.

Time travel is a ridiculously hard story element to handle well.  Paradoxes are all over the place and nearly impossible to avoid.  This is one reason I'd nuke this series at the end of the season and do something else.  Teen Titans might be available.  Perhaps Power Company? 

Or just do something new and Justice League-esque: A few key individuals form a super team (present day) and quietly reach out to emerging heroes to get them to join up.  They then pull in members to team up against major threats as they emerge.  Maybe 4 characters that are in essentially every episode and then a rotating bunch of guest stars as whatever characters DC lets them have.... Maybe the 4 keys could be something like Rip Hunter, Constantine, Manhunter and Vibe - covering the time, magic, space and dimensional threats that would require a team up.

The MacGuffin just doesn't make sense. It could have been at least a sort of "there are clues about how to undo Savage's immortality scattered across time", basically a hunt-the-Horcruxes plot, or something else that would explain why they go where they go. Right now it's just flailing around incoherently.

Yep, I have no idea what they are doing plot wise. I still like it. But I agree they could have done better than explaining that THIS KNIFE AND THIS LADY can kill Savage at the beginning. I mean, draw it out man.

Legends of Tomorrow, you failed this universe.

Time travel is very hard to pull off, but this is worse than most attempts.  The characters are wandering through personal story lines with no connection between episodes (now we're friends,  now we hate each other, or we're crushing on someone...)   The audience is 10 steps ahead of all the characters when it comes to any time travel 'twist'.   Horribly disappointing.

And I'm not even going to start tearing into how bad of a character Rip Hunter is.

I liked the last episode. More focus on alternate reality and characters which they neglected at the beginning.

For those that complained we don't get enough about Rip's character, I think this last episode did a better job of featuring him and his family as his internal conflict over time/romance/duty. It was probably one of the better development episodes so far.

And then they get rid of one of the most entertaining characters.  :uhrr:

Off screen in a comic book.  You know better.

Still the idea that he might not be back on this show diminishes it. He had some of the best lines.

Well the title of the episode was "Marooned."

I'm waiting for this week's episode to move things forward. They've had a good bit of character development mish-mash and now I expect them to get the ship moving again.

Finally got around to the first episode.

It was junk.  Apart from Hawkgirls bod and The Prison Break Boys, I don't see the appeal of this shit at all.

Yeah, the Prson Break Boys are the only redeeming thing in this, which makes the decisions in the last episode really baffling.

Renewed (http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/11/flash-vampire-diaries-supernatural-arrow-legends-100-cw-renewals?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter).  I'd rather have seen a new DC show replace it, but I'll take it, I guess.  Maybe the rotating cast will help fix the problems we see.

I loved the episode in the 50s. You had hot blonde with lesbian other hot nurse blonde. You had interracial couple 50s nonsense. You had jocks trying to beat up the black kid hitting on the white womenz. Plus you had Savage eating the scenery as he spawned a wave of insane meteor monsters.

The only downside is Chronos who just seems to show up to annoy me, and they need to deal with that. Yes yes, Time Masters are pissed, we get it. The next episode really needs to resolve that conflict.

Also, I'm glad it was renewed. I don't like much comic book stuff but I like this.

This is maximum comic book stuff. If you like this, you like comic book stuff. I cannot conceive of a rule that says, "I like this, but I don't like comic books."

"I love beef, only I hate eating cows."

I'm pretty picky about my comic book stuff

I'm dumbfounded by anyone that doesn't think that this show is miles worse than Flash and Arrow ... even with Arrow's uneven current season. The story wanders, the time travel rules make no sense, and that acting is almost all scene chewing or bland.

This show is so much less than it should be.

I couldn't get past the first episode.

It's the closest thing we have to a true superhero team show.  Instead of a Hero and his sidekicks.  Overall I like it.  I think it's a lil rough around the edges but it's pure comic book fluff.  I think the biggest problem is the shorter season and them having to do character arcs for all the characters and still deal with the main plot.  All the time travel junk doesn't bother me cuz it's a comic book show and I don't expect them to follow any logic when it comes to that.

If by first episode you mean the pilot (which was part one and two here), then you're right.

It's really quite remarkably bad.

Oh there are plenty of cringeworthy bits in every single episode, the story does make very little sense and the time travel rules are contradictory when they even bother with them. Still, I enjoy it for the characters and the actors. It's certainly worse than any of the super hero shows out there right now, of that there can be no debate. I still enjoy it in a guilty pleasure sort of way and hope that next season will be a different dynamic with a smaller, more focused, not time-travel based team.

Well the producers cleared up what they meant about a different team next season.  They actually meant the characters won't be the same personality wise, they'll have grown as heroes etc.  They said there may be a new addition or 2 but the core team looks to remain the same. 

The last two episodes have been better. More of a focus on getting to Savage even though the plans are hilariously stupid. KIDNAP A GUY'S SON! IT DOES NOTHING!

It's like they don't want to admit they already spelled out how to kill Savage and the rest of this is just posturing. Also, the lost story between Hawk Girl and Atom Man is hilariously bad. It's as if the writers said, wait we need something here and our coolest character is a lesbian. Hmmm, what do we do?

A lesbian romance with Sarah would have been 10x cooler, but no. We get this.

The twist about Rory was good. Having him and Snark fight was good. The parallels and the questions of can people be redeemed was good. The bad part was the conclusion and how it all wrapped up to be pointless. Apparently next week we're going to the Wild West because reasons. So I'm going to sit back and stop worrying about the meta-plot and enjoy the week to week shenanigans, and hopefully avoid Palmer and Hawk-girls romance.

How is Sarah a lesbian? the only relationship they've shown her in was with Oliver.

Sarah and Nyssa were snuggle bunnies.   :awesome_for_real:

Not even subtle snuggle bunnies! Explicit we-said-we're-lesbians-snuggle-bunnies.

Oh, forgot her.  Well that still makes her bi not lesbian.

Sarah and Nyssa, the nurse from the 50's, and possibly with her little assistant chick from Arrow when Sarah was living in the tower. She also tried to make the nurse not feel ashamed of being attracted to women. Sarah is also said to be fantasizing/dreaming of the nurse in this last episode.

It seems more like her fling with Oliver was before she realized she was a lesbian, or even just to be a bitch to her sister for whatever reason sisters are bitches to each other.


As for the episode, I like that the plan failed (even if it was a shitty plan to begin with). I think that's one reason why I keep watching this but dropped Supergirl - because at least this show makes some effort at a bit more difficult story line even if they don't do very well.

Also specifically in one of the early episodes she gets hit on in the 70s bar and tells the guy, you're not my type, but your lady there is. Or something to that effect. I'm shocked you missed this.

Well they also got together again in the island and after she came back.

Forgot about that. So straight for Oliver and lesbian the rest of the time.  :why_so_serious:

So basically Nyssa turned Sara gay.  She must be great in bed.   :awesome_for_real:

Or Oliver is the prototypical "guy so sexy he turns lesbians on" sort of thing.

Or Oliver is so bad...

I think sarah is bi.

Has the hots for women who are emotionally and physically weaker than her, so she is basically the "male" of the relationship.
Has the hots for men who are stronger emotionally and physically weaker than her, so she gets to be the "chick".

Its really not that complicated and pretty consistent with her character. When she meets Nessa she is at her weakest point physically and emotionally. Nyssa nurtures her, protects her, trains her and convinces her she is a born assassin. However when she leaves she doesn't seek that type of relationship with a girl ever again, preferring to be that for someone else.  Until she reunites with Oliver who teaches her its ok to drop her guard down, to be with her family, to actually interact with humans.

But yeah she only likes Oliver because he is emotionally stronger than she is. If you had to measure every guy you been with against Oliver fucking Queen you'd probably be a lesbian too.

Finale was tonight.  I thought the last few episodes were decent and I like how they ended and teased next season.

There time travel rules make absolutely no sense. It was frustrating and annoying to have changes in the past simultaneously alter the future and not alter the future in the same episode.  this may be the worst implementation of time travel in science fiction I've ever seen. It is just ridiculous. I can hardly believe that this comes from the same team that does the other DC shows.

It's Mike from Suits!

I checked out about halfway through the season (the Time Pirates episodes). Is it worth trying to catch up?

--Dave

They tied together all of the DC shows. That is the only reason why I'm sticking with this show so far. I really hope that they make some big improvements on it for next season. If this were an isolated show that didn't interweave with Aarow, Flash, and Supergirl, I would not be watching it right now. I would have given up on it after two or three episodes. There are a whole bunch of characters on the team, but they haven't really made me care about any of them. Even white Canary is coming over flat. I enjoyed her far more when she was on Arrow.

Legends of tomorrow improved a good bit in the second half of the season. The last episode was pretty good. They made up for not killing savage any of the times they easily had the chance to by killing him three times at once!

That whole "we can't kill him" thing never worked. Blow him full of holes, then launch him at the sun, bury him, imprison him, etc...

There was lazy writing all over the place throughout this entire season. The people riding for the show didn't realize if when you write for science fiction, you need to respect the science as much as you respect the fiction. You are science fiction doesn't need to follow all the rules of real science, but it does have to make internally consistent sense. This show failed to do that.

Overall, I enjoyed the season, but only because SUPERHEROES. I do really like some of the characters in it. But holy shit, yes, the writing was INCREDIBLY lazy. Just fuckstupid lazy. Their time travel rules weren't even consistent from episode to episode (or within episodes). The Time Masters made no sense. I like Arthur Darvil, but I have no idea why he stood stoop shouldered in every goddamn scene. It was like he had permanent curvature of the spine.

But it all was made up for with HOURMAN!!!!!

Hope they shave down the cast next season. I'd say they should get rid of the villains but Snart and Rory had all the good lines.

I'd still prefer that they cancel the show and replace it with another team so. Some of the cast could transition over to the new show but for the most part this concept just doesn't work.

The team concept works - it's the goddamn time travel bullshit that's really horking up the show. as well as the necessity for full season arcs with one villain. The best episodes they had this season were the ones that let us see other parts of the DC Universe - the old West where we got to see Jonah Hex and the future Star City where we got to see Connor and Old Ollie.

Considering the ratings I would say the concept works well enough.  It's really all about flashy super powered stuff and you don't need to scrap the whole thing just tighten up the writing.

Legends Season 2 teaser. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUrbrdZj-I4)

Legion of Doom is the main foe.  Looks like Darkh, Merlin, Reverse Flash, and Capt. Cold.

Fucking stupid. They need to quit the framing device and do a scrubover entirely.

I'm not ready to scrap the whole thing, but I want to see what they do with the Justice Society. But fuck Dark as a villain. I like the actor, like him hamming it up, but I got more than enough of him in Arrow.

Legion of Doom really requires more than the three or four villains they've established to date. That's not a "legion", it's a Bridge Quartet of Menace.

Dear God, so bad... let it die.  The completionist in me can't not watch it, but I hate what they've done with the characters, the story, the time travel rules, etc...  I'd rather see them release these characters back to the shows from which they came or make an entirely new show that doesn't feature time travel and is controlled by others.

Season 1 I can make an argument for watching, but I couldn't for the life of me continuing watching after. I mean flash season 3 was barely worth the bother beyond the last few episodes leading up to the final and even that was disappointing.

I actually think Season 2 is ok. It's at least kind of fun. Season 1 is pure shit.

It's all pure shit.  :why_so_serious: I still enjoyed both seasons, mostly because I like the characters and the actors playing them. The series really needs a much better set of writers.

It really does. I think Berlanti & Co. have to be credited for setting a potentially fun superheroic universe in motion, but they are really struggling to figure out how to keep the ball rolling along. The really bad Season 3 for Flash has clearly killed a lot of interest in the show, judging from the low ratings for the opener.