f13.net

Agent Carter is starting tonight. The reviews seem to be more positive than the initial reviews for MAoS.  I'm curious how it will turn out.... and how it will play in to all of the other stuff going on. 

Atwell has filmed stuff for 5 movies (Cap I and II, Avengers I and II, Ant-man - not all used), a one shot, multiple episodes of MAoS... she is getting to be pretty prolific in the Marvel Universe. 

I don't have very high hopes for this one, but that's mainly due to me not liking the time period it's set in.  Cap I was by far my least favorite of the Marvel produced movies, and Agent Carter looks to be set directly after that.  The only movies I've ever liked set in the '40s are movies actually made in the '40s, but that's just personal preference.

I don't hate it, I don't love it either.

My initial verdict is, /shrug

I like the supporting cast so far, so it may work out. Even has Dr. Venture in it.

Upon further thought though, my worry is that after two episodes, I really didn't care much about Agent Carter herself. Nothing about that character really draws me in.

What did bother me was knowing the time period and not seeing a single person smoking throughout the entire show.  It was just a bit weird.

This show isn't blowing my hair back, but it's solid entertainment.  Plus they calmed down the feminist stuff and even had a nasty surprise for Carter.

Was that the Stark scientist she and Jarvis went to in the first episode? Nope, it wasn't. THAT was Oleg from The Americans (I knew I recognized him).

James Urbaniak played Van Ert. I totally did not recognize his voice.

I see a lot of familiar faces in this show - but I am not finding it must watch TV.   I'm disappointed so far.  I felt like the concept was a bit of a stretch to sell to audiences - and the execution was less than I'd hope.  It doesn't feel like part of the MCU - it feels like fan faction of the MCU that doesn't fit the established continuity's feel. 

I'll stick it out just to be completionist in my MCU watching, but I would clearly not continue watching if it were not the MCU.   

I have much higher hopes for the Netflix series.... I hope they match or exceed Arrow and Flash.

I was totally hyped for this show and I find myself in the same boat. I don't feel like its being executed as well as it should be and I'm having a hard time drumming up interest to actually watch it every week.

Just as you said, if it wasn't part of the MCU, I would've dropped it entirely by now.

I think it's an issue of budget and scope.  A really cool noir super science show was what people were expecting and the network budgets just don't allow for a stylized show in the way people would want.

Sounds about right, yea.

I tend to like period pieces so I am fine with the show so far.  It's been a lil hum drum but I hope it just picks up here towards the end.  I did like the last episode though better than the beginning ones.  I think the biggest issue is it's not as fun as SHIELD has become this season and it's definitely no Arrow or Flash.  I would still watch this over Gotham though. 

This show is about what I expected but I didn't have very high hopes for it.  I agree it's still better than Gotham, though.

I'm still enjoying it. It's not great but it doesn't suck. They might be letting the mystery stretch out a bit too long but I think Carter, Jarvis and Stark all work well together.

Still enjoying this, a solid bit of entertainment along with a nice surprise or two.  I'll chime in as well and say it's better than Gotham, which I'm close to bailing on; Penguin can't hold it up alone.  Seriously, that actor needs more work. 

I like how the agents in AC aren't fucking stupid, they are right behind Carter.

I loved that asshole agent got the bum to talk in like three seconds.

You all catch the link to one of the Avengers in the last episode - all in the execution?

What?

It amazes me how much the styles of the era mess with my perception of people. I didn't recognize Lindsey Fonseca or Bridget Regan, both of whom I've watched considerably in other shows.

AC was good, nice twist to the show.  This story, like Hayley Atwell, has legs! 

Gams.  She has gams.  It is the 40s after all.

I agree with Haemish.  It doesn't suck.  That's a lot at the moment.

Well fuck.  I haven't been able to watch yet so I was going to let the shows build up on the DVR and then binge watch this weekend.  Except I fucked up and didn't set the DVR to keep all episodes, just the last 5 and since last night was #6 (well, 7 technically) that means the pilot/ep2 were dropped.  Now to see if I can find it on demand on DTV and watch.  Feel like such an idiot because the little bit that I have seen so far, I like.

Just finished watching this after managing to acquire a copy (no-one's picked it up in the UK so not been shown.)  Loved it - although I will admit, I was majorly disappointed that the Russian doctor didn't say "Don't get uptight with me. Coz if you do, I'll have to give you a dose of medicine! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESAnP5gj0Q)"

http://www.blastr.com/2015-4-27/when-fate-marvels-agent-carter-will-be-decided-and-it-looks-good (http://www.blastr.com/2015-4-27/when-fate-marvels-agent-carter-will-be-decided-and-it-looks-good)Looking like a potential renewal is possible, which surprises me... but only half as much as it surprises me that people would pay $60 for an autograph.  Are you friggin kidding me?

$60 bucks is high for Haley Atwell.  I don't think she's that big a star that she should be getting that.  On the other side I know other actors charge more.  Like Lucy Lawless charges like 85 bucks and Patrick Stewart charges 80.  At least according to this article:  http://www.mtv.com/news/1958800/autograph-prices-ny-comic-con/.

I know they charge it, I can't believe that people are stupid enough to pay it. 

For 85 bucks Lucy Lawless better be signing my penis.

^ So much this. ^

But then I've never gotten the huge attraction to autographs. Penis signing, however, I'm down with as long as the pen is a soft tip.  :grin:

Obligatory "well, if they can write a name on a grain of rice, I guess she might be able to sign that for you" joke.

That's what she said?

Only in the beginning.  :grin:

So it was hard in the end?

That costs extra.   :awesome_for_real:

This was renewed for a season 2.  I'm kinda glad about that, I liked the first season.  I just hope they do the same 8 episode deal, I don't know if the show would work for more than that.

The logline for Season 2: “Peggy must now journey from New York City to Los Angeles for her most dangerous assignment yet,” where she “discovers new friends, a new home… and perhaps even a new love.”

So, this is on TV.

Still better than Agents.

Still not as good as Netflix.

They seem to be setting up to cover the creation and inflitration of Shield. Also making it about the black goo that showed up in Agents is a neat crossover.

Different black goo.  This ties into Doctor Strange.

Enjoy it while you can.  Apparently won't be getting a 3rd.

 :heartbreak:

I think that coffin was nailed when Most Wanted got the light. I bet we see more Atwell in the future (in flashbacks to earlier years on SHIELD, in movie flashbacks, etc...), but this show is done. I hope we gather a MAOS episode somewhere that wraps up the loose ends they preserve at the end of this season, though... maybe even freeze Dottie like Winter Soldier was frozen so that she can go modern... 

1 down one more to go  :drill:

Well at least we got 2, it was originally a 1 season thing.

If you're saying Agent Carter down, MAoS to go: MAoS and Most Wanted are going to be on the air in the next year. 1 liekly down, 2 still going.

I can dream.

NaCl required, but there is a rumor going around that despite horrible ratings there will be a season 3.  I'd like to see it - and see it cover the start of SHIELD.  For the season 3 premiere, I'd take the short that was shot at the end of Cap I, expand it (fully reshot) into a full length episode and then run with it for a final season of the show.

Nerd Reactor Article (http://nerdreactor.com/2016/03/04/exclusive-agent-carter-to-be-renewed-for-season-3/?doing_wp_cron=1457240815.1124150753021240234375)

I watched series one of Agent Carter, and it was fine enough in an unremarkable way, and I am only a few episodes behind on series 2, but if it gets renewed again with its consistently awful - and declining - audience ratings then the criteria are clearly not commercial.

I also watched the first two series of MAoS and it got poorer and poorer as it went on.  The "we are a family" thing that got pushed in a more and more puzzling manner, leading to the "oh they wanted us to think that that would be a huge betrayal" thing was never earned, just asserted. 

Basically I watched Daredevil, Fargo, Mr Robot and I simply could not make myself go back to watching the pap that Agents of Shield was serving up.

I would agree that the network series, Carter and Shield, are much weaker than the Netflix series. Compared to the DC stuff (generic soap drama in spandex, for the most part) they aren't bad, but the failure to really connect to any other element of the MCU combined with network blandness spread all over them really makes them suffer by comparison to Netflix.

--Dave

Agreed: compared to stuff like Arrow they are pretty decent, but even amongst superhero stuff the netflix offerings like Jessica Jones and Daredevil blow them away.

I watch about four hours of TV a week at most, but I had to ration myself with series 2 of Fargo or I could have watched it in a night or two.  I make myself watch Agent Carter because my wife likes it.

To be fair,  Netflix is kicking network ass on nearly everything, but it's really stark on the MCU stuff. Only a handful of premium cable series are as good as most Netflix offerings, and nothing on broadcast or basic cable (excepting AMC) comes close.

JJ and DD were just some of the best TV ever, that's a pretty high bar to be measuring Carter and MAoS against.

--Dave

Carter and Shield is like Legends of Tomorrow without the fun or interesting characters. The problem with Legends is its plot and internal logic, Carter and Shield only has its plot and internal logic and fails miserably. Where as Legends was mostly inspired to cash in on the side characters fans wanted to see more of and to extend the cw superhero brand, carter and shield were the brain child of marketing execs being told to sell marvel tshirts.

I think the only credit the marvel network tv shows get is that there still on the air.

Well this is cancelled.  I was hoping for another season, or a short season, to show the founding of SHIELD.

Well she died and all..

 :why_so_serious:

Damnit. I thought 2nd season was much better than the first, and they left it on a damn cliffhanger of sorts.

Marvel's Most Wanted didn't get picked up either.  Which means no more Adrienne Palicki in tight clothing.  :(

Fiancee is pissed, it's literally the only fictional show we watch.

Well Hayley Atwell's other show did get picked up for series.  So if you like the actress she'll have something else.

Funny how that goes. The second season's lighter tone wasn't so much to my liking, but my wife liked it a lot (I think it might have been a welcome change from my usual preference for grimdark Netflix offerings).

But I'll still miss it, even though it wasn't exactly what I was hoping for when I first began watching.

I thought the chemistry between Jarvis and Carter, especially their comedic timing and tone, was what really made it an enjoyable watch. The Marvel tie-ins and adventure-y bits were just icing on the cake. Also, Hayley Atwell.  :drill:

I read that Netflix might revive it.  There was a petition or some such.

A true rated R Agent Carter is what is always should have been for spy drama set in the pre-cold war era.  Concepts like sexism and racism were given lip service but never really had any bite to them, treated with kid gloves so to speak.  Unfortunately two seasons on a very pg network could have already poisoned the well, they can't exactly just go back and redo those seasons and changing the entire tone of the show would be weird too.   They could keep it exactly the same and bring it to netflix but it was never received that well in the first place.

This is why this lackluster show will never be taken seriously. Given an R rating and the first thing we want to see? The evils of being called sugar titts. Yes a show about a spy who literally one of the key holders of the fate of the free world, the most exciting aspect of her story is being called sugar titts. Gotta put some "respek" on her name.

Glad this crap got shitcanned.

It's not what the show should be about but it's a symptom of why it was bad,  the whole show felt sanitized and watered down.  When you have a black scientist, in the 40's and the worst you get is "oh I thought you were the janitor"  it asks more of the audience on perhaps a subconscious level than people might immediately realize.  You know that italian gangster would be dropping the N bomb left and right, you know a lot worse than "sugar tits" would be happening and you know people would be smoking like chimneys. 

Network dramas only work when the characters seem real, Carter's world itself seemed unreal and when you add super science on top of that it all just falls apart.

I agree, definitely our favorite part of the show. The casting in general was quite strong, though the mobster part was an obvious miscast (made more obvious by the better acting happening around him).

They wouldn't have to go hard R -- maybe amp it up just a shade south of Daredevil (I was going to say Jessica Jones, then I remembered the sex scenes). And just skip the timeline forward a few years to the fifties to make the change of tone less jarring.

But that's just wishful thinking -- I doubt Netflix or Amazon or AMC or whatever will pick it up. For one thing the budget to do a really good period piece is just too high unless the show is really raking in the viewers. And a good spy drama needs to keep jumping locations, which means more period set dressing, which costs more than I think anyone is willing to pay.

Shame really. I liked the young Howard Stark a lot, and was hoping to see him finally settle down and do his part in forming SHIELD.

The tone played off what was establisghed in Cap I.  Sanitized and optimistic.  No grit at all.  Although they could have made a Netlix-esque gritty period drama with her at the center, that was not the show they made.  It was a pop serial.  I love Atwell, but I felt like they never really had a great show here,  It was my least favorite Marvel show - still watchable,  but not great. 

I would not be surprised if ABC doesn't have any Marvel shows on the air in the fall of 2017.  However, I hope that what we're seeing is ABCrealizing that they don't need to have 3 versions of MAoS on the air when they could instead be putting a show together featuring a character that has their own comic book.

One thing I'll say about Agent Carter is at least they did short seasons. Fuck I can't handle 20+ episode seasons any more, especially with villains that last throughout the season. I'm incredibly sick of Damien Darhk, Zoom, and Hive in their respective shows. The network tv model just needs to die off for good at this point.

The 6 to 13 episode series, even the limited ones, have spoiled me, too, for the most part.  I guess when you have less episodes you can spend more money on each, afford better actors, etc. and it shows.  Also, the way some of the comic book series have gone dark and gritty makes it nearly impossible for me to watch the network ones.  Too fluffy now.  The only reason I occasionally watch the DC Adventure one is because of the two blokes from Prison Break and the main bad guy. 

https://www.change.org/p/netflix-save-agent-carter-bring-her-to-netflix

Even if you didn't like the show, sign to show your support for more Marvel stuff on tv in general :)

Money wasted on Agent Carter could be more money spent on Jessica Jones, or the Defenders or a 3rd season of Daredevil, or Iron Fist. Its just not worth it.

If Netflix believes there are very few people that watched Agent Carter that were not already watching the Netflix Marvel shows, there's no real incentive for Agent Carter to be brought to Netflix. If the show doesn't bring a new group of audience members to Netflix,  or lock up people subscribing to Netflix so they don't leave, then there is no incentive for them to take that show to Netflix.

I don't have Netflix and would for that show.

The way you show support for Marvel stuff on TV is by watching Marvel stuff on TV.

It would help if network TV was showing something as good as Daredevil.  My 72 year old parents both loved it.  I doubt I could get them to sit through an Agents of Shield episode.

Won't happen while network TV is still beholden to outdated business models.

I'm not even sure what you could possibly mean by that.

Network TV should go full cable with paid-for access? Hah.
Network TV should lobby Congress to adopt the British model? Hah.
Network TV should ignore Neilson ratings with regards to ad prices and instead adopt the, "Well SOMEONE is watching, look at the internet chatter," negotiation tactic? Hah.

What is it you're proposing there?

Neilson households are a legacy thing. Should pull data directly from set-top and dvr.

Then again, they'd see how many people skip commercials, too.

And totally under-represent cord-cutters (or cord-nevers) and those too poor to afford cable.  Roughly 20% of the population in 2013 and growing YOY because cable sucks.
https://gigaom.com/2013/06/21/ota-60-million-antenna-users-cord-cutting/

The Neilsons are a legacy but also remain the most accurate way of determining how many people view a broadcast program without ignoring 20% of the viewership.

So you Neilson that segment to augment real data, rather than skewed "we're a neilson house" data. They ain't watchin' what I'm watchin' :)

It means that things like making seasons 20+ episodes long because you want to hit 80-100 episodes to sell a show into syndication, or planning big episodes to air during sweeps week aren't conducive to telling a good story.  Almost any show that's trying to tell an ongoing narrative suffers by being on a network. As fast as technology has been changing they way people view content, network TV has seemed remarkably slow to adapt. Or rather in some respects they've adapted to how they deliver content (putting their shows on Hulu, Amazon, and such) but they still largely haven't changed how they make content.

The 80-100 episode syndication barrier doesn't even exist anymore, and I'm going to be that syndication money is not what it used to be. That lends credence to your argument that network TV is woefully behind the times. They are starting to get it but it's damned slow going. They are doing more short season shows and both mid-season and summer shows are a thing now whereas in years past, summers were only for reruns and mid-season shows were meant to be replacements for cancelled shows as opposed to spring-only series.

The 20-23 episode seasons though are a huge problem with network TV, creatively speaking. If they ditched those, I think you'd see an improvement in the quality of network TV immediately. But that also means they have to make more shows as opposed to more episodes of fewer shows.

Hate to break it to you, nobody's watching what you're watching, regardless of how they gather the data. That's why it's always getting cancelled and there's no public outcry.  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah the syndication barrier died a while back, but doesn't matter. Local TV stations aren't buying up content to fill hours like they were, and when they do it's for popular shows instead of, "aw hell, all we can afford is that piece of garbage."  Seems TBS is more willing to shovel shit at me than Star 64 these days.

I agree being wedded to the 20+ season is a problem, but that's an industry cultural one not a business model. As Haemish points out, you're seeing some of that start to shift as Cable and Netflix yank viewers away, but you're going to need some old dogs to die before it becomes a known thing. Same as trying to milk a show that has a strong 2-3 year story arc into a 7-10 year show.

I know, I was laughing as I typed it  :grin: We joke that we would be the most awesome Neilson house, all kinds of weird shit would be on network tv.

I think I mentioned it before, but a while back I was passively watching tv (arting or gaming or something with the tv on) and watched an episode of Broad City, a modern style of comedy show. We like it overall, it's got some raunch to it, but it's done in an almost innocent, kinda realistic way. Then Two Broke Girls was on and every other joke was innuendo and the laugh track and writing was excruciating. I found it an interesting contrast in  network vs cable style. SOmeone could write a thesis on those two shows and what it shows about both the companies broadcasting them and the audiences.

I figured you were self-aware enough to take the ribbing. ;)

Broad City can be amusing but the idiocy of the characters drives me away. The leads don't do the clueless schlub well enough for me to empathize with them the way a buddy series does, and they aren't narcissistic enough to make me delight in their pain the way Ab Fab did.

Sure, you could say it's a cultural thing that has its roots in what used to be the business model. And yeah, Agent Carter itself is an example of networks starting to move away from that somewhat. It just seems like they're adapting at an extremely slow pace.

Pretty sure the networks are still getting more money through advertising over the long seasons than they are using a Netflix model.  The problem that occurs with the shorter seasons for them is the need to fill TV with more shows, which overall would cost more than having a show for twice as long. 

Hell I have a subscription to Netflix and unless it's a 2 day span where I binge watch a new show, I hardly use it at all.  Also that means I am waiting months barely using the service for a new season of something.  Not dumping whole seasons all at once would probably fix that problem somewhat, but then people would complain cuz they like to binge watch.

Viewership and ad revenue are dropping every year on network TV and basic cable as well.  In most cases that's resulted in an increase in the number of ads, but that's not sustainable and in the long term only drives more people away.

We usually keep a second channel ready if watching live tv, to flip away from commercials. Some shows' commercial breaks have become so long we just stop watching them and stick with the alternate channel that had shorter commercials.

It surprises me that advertising is even a thing, given how many people go to such lengths to avoid it and generally dislike it. If anything, it works against companies in our household, because we will actively avoid companies with annoying ads. I didn't name my car Brad, bitch, shut your fucking bonghole.

In the end, we have to pay for the shows somehow. We can either pay for them through subscription fees, or we can pay for them by enduring advertisements for products. Personally, I don't mind being forced to watch a few commercials. It gives me time to get another drink or answer Nature's call.

Or I can use usenet to free ride and get you lot to watch the ads for me!

Netflix has been trying very hard to hide the dearth of content.

I've noticed that a bunch of old shows have new promo images, just to keep things from looking stale. 30 Rock has changed promo images twice recently. The way I use Netflix is one every two or three months I watch something, then the rest of the time I'm too lazy to unsub. But I'm close to unsubbing.


You can see this effect on websites. People block ads so the remaining ads are more frequent and obtrusive. Firefox basically doesn't work any more for most websites if you aren't using an ad blocker - it constantly hangs. Which of course just encourages people to install ad blockers.

The sad thing is that there's actually a lot of good or at least interesting things on Netflix, but their UI and means of presenting content is so fucking terrible it's almost like they're deliberately obscuring what they actually have on there. I assume some of the deals they make for content must include promises to display that content prominently. I'm completely baffled as to what else would cause the "Because you watched Nightcrawler" recommendations I'm getting right now to include Minions and Hotel Transylvania 2.

In the wishful thinking file: http://www.blastr.com/2017-5-30/hayley-atwell-agent-carter-season-3-could-still-happen (http://www.blastr.com/2017-5-30/hayley-atwell-agent-carter-season-3-could-still-happen)

The most realistic possibility I see is that Season 5 (or 6 - if they renewed it this year, why not next?) of MAoS has a time travel element and someone from the current team goes back to fight Zodiac with Carter.

Hulu has the streaming rights to this in the near future, with a slim... slim... slim... chance of new episodes to be made.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11/29/hulu-agent-carter-exclusive-streaming/ (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11/29/hulu-agent-carter-exclusive-streaming/)

(I think Atwell returns as Agent Carter on an ABC series show sometime in the next year or two, perhaps for a time travel arc, but that the series is never revived).