f13.net

So I really, really thought we had a thread for this, but I can't find it.

Anyway :  Trailer (http://youtu.be/0d1zpt6k5OI).

I dunno.  Really.  It seems to not fit somehow. 

I want to like this. I'm not sure I will, but I want to.

This is just not appealing to me.  I've never once said to myself "Self, I really wish I could have a show based on Jim Gordon."

I was interested until I noticed "young batman character 1,2,3,4,5,6....."  it's like they started out wanting to do something original and then someone said "fuck that, just make this the batman version of smallville"

Yeah, having Young Catwoman there made me really, really suspicious as to the quality.

Also agreed.  Had a little bit of interest until they brought in young Bruce.  Then the closing of young Batman, Catwoman, Penguin, etc. just convinced me this will be awful.

One of the best Batman stories ever is pretty much a Jim Gordon story - Year One.  However, I'm leaning towards not bothering with this and waiting to catch it down the road if it survives.  It just isn't grabbing me.

This looks like it has elements of Year One combined with some of what they've done with Arrow, then mixed up and Fox-ified because... Fox. Young Catwoman I could have done without but I like the rest.

Jim Henson's Batman Babies.

Pass.

Was that Bill Rawls as the mayor?

Pretty much. Smallville was essentially a 10 year origin story for a version of Superman that doesn't mesh with any version of Superman from the comics or movies. Gotham looks like a show about the origins of Batman and a bunch of his villains which by necessity will end before any of them get to actually do anything interesting. Also with Jim Gordon in generic crime drama.

This.

I never feel Jim Gordan gets the attention he deserves (we only get the Jim Gordon we deserve  :why_so_serious:). He's a good character and if all they do is spend three seasons telling year one while throwing the occasional other-origin-story in there, I'm in.

I do hope all these characters don't evolve to their eventual hero/villain/ambivalent status all at once. Would be nice if that Catwoman sequence was from inspirational footage for season 2 or 3 for example.

This is on FOX, not CW, so it'll be lucky to survive a half season.

Shit. Right. Forgot that part. But then, maybe CW would pick it up when Fox drops it? Seems close enough (unlike, say, Almost Human which kinda doesn't have a home sadly).

I liked Smallville, but yea, Trippy is right. This is gonna get 6 of its 23 episode run. The last episodes will be aired in Australia and I'll never get to see them.

RIP VERITAS: THE QUEST.

Smallville was a fucking epic disaster fail of a show with a few decent episodes here and there. (Schild is fighting hard to preserve his perfect record of having the wrong opinion about virtually all of popular culture except Dark Souls.) This is going to do the same thing that Smallville did: constantly cock-tease  the Batmanning of Bruce Wayne until six seasons later when he's done everything but had a child with Talia al-Ghul and then in the last episode it'll be "Father, I shall become a Bat", while the Martian Manhunter and Ace the Bat-Hound look on approvingly.

I'm not too excited by this.  It does look like Batman Babies.  If it's more Arrow than Smallville then I might check it out.

I actually liked the trailer and don't get the complaints about young Bruce Wayne, Catwoman, etc., as its somewhat required if you're doing a Gordon story from when he was young. I'll be giving the show a shot.

That said, I expect the show to either be crap, or descend into being crap because, well, Fox, and this is the sort of thing that's hard to pull off. Arrow was a complete surprise in it not being crap (though it has its moments) not just because of the genre, but.. well, CW. If that could work.. this might. But I doubt it, despite the trailer actually being decent.

It's difficult for me to judge this work on its own merits when I find myself forced to compare its status quo and quality to other Batman interpretations. I want to rip this thing apart, but I'll take a step back and say: it's not for me.

This does seem like the Batman version of Smallville, Arrow, Birds of Prey ... just, to me, utter shlock that amps up the Soap Opera in a realistic setting using the mythos as a springboard. Its realism is its greatest handicap for a fan of the comics -- but I don't think this is marketed for comic book fans?

As I am right now rewatching the final season of The Wire, yes it was.

I'm cautious about this. I hope they tone down the super hero cameos and make this about the mundane police as it should be. The trailer doesn't raise my hope they do, though.

Smallville worked as the second best superman interpretation because the origin and outsider elements are the only interesting thing about superman, but the opposite is true of Batman.

It'd be too much to hope for the Wire set in pre Batman Gotham, but that would in fact be pretty great.

That would seem to fly in the face of a premise: create a made-for-TV police procedural emphasizing the drama that exploits the current popularity of superhero brands.

Now that I think about it, wouldn't this be D.C.'s attempt to get an Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. of their own? It'd makes sense for reasons of competition alone. But it would continue the trend of DC's media efforts paling in comparison to Marvel's.

Well, with that potential comparison, all my tiny reservoir of enthusiasm drained.

Except Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. at least marginally ties into Marvel's movies. Gotham won't tie into DC's movies and won't even tie into their other T.V. shows. I haven't read too much about the show but right now my impression is that this isn't a show that DC came up with and shopped around, it's something FOX came up with and made a licensing deal with DC to do. I could be wrong about that though.

Mundane police dealing with super villains could be made to cash in on comic interest but still relatable, fresh, and deliverable on a tv budget. I am aware this is a description of what many hoped for from the Shield show.

Anyway, this seems more of a by the numbers producer play.

That's my take. Its extremely difficult for DC to do what Marvel do because of the constraints of their characters. Superheroics aside, Marvel's strengths seem to be about the characters and their interactions, not the costumes, whereas DC characters are about the costume, not the character. Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, and ... I'm drawing a blank on the other characters outside of costume and how there would be interesting interactions between them.

Cap and Black Widow. Cap and Tony. Tony and Bruce. Like, I can rattle off a lot more. These people play well off each other. I don't see that with DC characters.

If they were smart they cut the young versions of "blank" from the plot as soon as humanly possible. Otherwise its smallville.

Next week: Dick Grayson's fetus.

I will bet money Grayson's parents are in it at some point.  This is a show that will name drop each and every batman character they can. 

Yeah, the flying Grayons are certainly going to be in it.  With probably a sex scene where they're less than cautious.

Their OBGYN will be Dr. Victor Friese.

Smallville has gotten basically infinite seasons. I know that doesn't mean it's good, but an actual Superman Show would've gotten like 2, max. He's a stupid one-dimensional awful shit-hero. Meanwhile Kristin Kreuk is ridiculously hot.

Edit: As far as this show goes, Donal Logue is like, the actual best possible generic white dude in a mystery series to cast.

That's what happens when you diversify gene pools, smoking hot girls or something like that.

ALSO, I'LL COMMENT ON THAT COMMENT ABOUT HAVING THE WRONG OPINION, WHY NOT:

Just because I like something doesn't mean it's good. I like all sorts of terrible shit, ALL SORTS. But I'm willing to admit that shit is bad. Some of my favorite movies are absolutely horrific. Just terrible dreck. But I know that. There wasn't anything "good" cinematography or dialogue-wise in Smallville, but it's absolutely brainless and miles more watchable than 99% of the shit on TV.

There's a possibility I'm riled up because this season of Game of Thrones has been so phoned in it hurts.

Also, Walking Dead sucks blow me.

That would be boring as shit, superhero cameos is about the only reason for this show to exist.

Depends how they use the super heroes. Thats why i said "tone down", not "remove".

The appeal of the show to me, is seeing how regular every day police try and deal with increasingly more bizarre and dangerous villains and vigilantes. I'm interested in seeing a familiar setting and world from a very different perspective.

Will they deliver on that... who the fuck knows? Probably won't, but maybe!

I just think Gordon is an interesting character, as long as he's kinda like the Year One one.

I also feel that what makes Batman strong is that for the most part, everything in that world normal people associate with Batman is all mundane. At best you'll get 'roided out stuff like Bane (a terrible 3rd movie, but that aside...), but otherwise it's all normal fallible people trying and often failing to do extraordinary things.

Gordon's divorce, his daughter becoming Oracle, the Graysons, that's all relable stuff. Making it like Arrow would be perfect (though of course.. FOX).

I think of it as two Batmans: the one everyone can relate to and the one in X dimension shooting magic something at whateverthefuckisnameis before he goes back in time to stop whatever because only a normal human can do what fucking invincible omniscient time travellers can't or whatsis.

tl;lr: Batman and Gotham have mass appeal until all the nerdy comic book shit shows up.

The guy developing this was one of the creators of HBO's Rome, though he also created The Mentalist...  so who knows?

I clicked this thread by accident because I kept thinking this was a cartoon show.  DOH!  I watched the trailer and it looks pretty good.  However, why would they show us bad stuff in a trailer?  I remember the trailer for The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen looking so fucking incredible... then I saw the film.   :ye_gods:  Sometimes the trailer is the best bit of the show.  Hopefully, that's not the case with this or Constantine because they really do look like good fun.

Am I the only one who felt like the acting in this trailer was fairly uneven? Sometimes it felt like a well made fan video instead of something done by a major network.

Watched the premiere. I liked it. I don't really like comic stuff much but this seemed to be more about cops and organized crime than about supervillians.

Also the soundtrack is pretty solid.

Also liked this premiere.  This looks like it might incorporate a bit of the tone of the 1960s series- at least I hope that was what the hilarious overacting from the rogues gallery was about.

Yea, it was a little jarring having most of the characters act serious and even toned beside Jada Smith chewing the scenery. I forgive it in Penguin, because I know the character and expect him or the Riddler to be over the top. That character of Smith's I've never heard of, so she just felt out of place. Also thought the casting of Alfred to be a little outside of what I expected, but that might be from just seeing the actor play something totally opposite in Sherlock.

I liked the subtle blend of the setting feeling almost 40's ish, yet clearly being modern day with the tech. I'll give it a chance. Was far better than that clusterfuck Scorpion that I watched after it.

She's a character made up entirely for Gotham according to my Google search.

Also good to see I wasn't the only one who thought Scorpion sucked. I regret watching it.  TV writers can't write brilliant people. Probably because they're not.

I think their approach to Supervillains will match Arrow - they'll start off mundane and mortal - and then they'll slowly build to the full fantasy we see in a Mr. Freeze, Solon Grundy, etc...

I liked it as a pilot, but hope they level out a bit and take off some of the rough edges on the acting.  It felt more like movie acting than series acting.

I liked Jada's overacting. The show needs a bit of ham-fisted villain that's going to end up getting owned.

There are rumors about her character.  Fish Mooney being a nod to an episode of the Batman cartoon where the Joker poisons fish.  Her place will also be the setting for a revolving set of comedians, of which one may or may not become the Joker.

It felt like Gotham Central (the comic), more than Batman. Even down to the transplanted characters like Montoya.

This is a good thing.

I believe Gotham Central was the original pitch, and then the network pushed for the Batman angle.  I'm thinking Bruce is a background figure for several years with his development into Batman hinted, more than shown.

No need to hint, it's not even in his mind yet. Bruce didn't start training until his mid teens and was 10 when his parents were shot. This show would need to last 15 years to see Year One if you keep to the "he was 25" timeline.

Could they do away with that and have him start to train in Gotham? Sure, but why. This story is about the supporting cast, not the Bat.

Keeping bruce as a side character is fine but it's gotta be depressing.  As in he needs to keep seeing how shitty gotham is over and over until he finally can't take it any more.

My understanding was that this was to be about Jim Gordon's early years, and the batman and villains were just accessories to that end.

Frankly, I don't care who it's about, so long as it doesn't suck.  The first episode had promise, but being on Fox, I'm not going to hold my breath.

First episode wasn't bad. It was very uneven in parts and they really need to give Donal Logue some funny linesa because he's kind of wasted with what they gave him in the pilot. It's good enough to stay on the Tivo. The writing could use a little boost. I really hope they keep Nymga around for a while because he might have been the best part.

Still watching this, but tonally the show is all over the place.  Some of the time, it remembers it is on at 8 PM on a network and seems very G-rated- a police procedural with infinitely less gravitas than any other cop show.  On the other hand, sometimes they graphically show someone's eyes clawed out, and someone is gratuitously murdered every five minutes- but even that feels G-rated, somehow.  The villains have that early comic book quality of killing their own henchmen for absolutely no reason.  

I'm really liking it for the most part. It feels like they missed with the Alfred character. Just doesn't seem to square with how I pictured him being. Oh well. I can ignore it.

I believe their line of thinking is probably "If Alfred was such a great caretaker and susbstitute father how come Bruce still turns into Batman?"  Plenty of kids see their parents get killed and don't start wearing tights, especially when someone takes care of them and loves them.  It makes sense to me at least to have Alfred be a dick in the beginning and only later realize it's a mistake but by then it's too late and Bruce is already off playing in caves.

I like the show and I think their take on Alfred is a lot different than expected but I like that take. It actually fits with some of the comic backstory on the character (he was in OSI during WWII and such)  which always seemed so out of place on the uptight posh butler. This guy being more "earthy" fits that better. The show really is all over the board though. They still don't really have a handle on how to write for Donal Logue - he's a perfect casting for Bullock but they really don't give him any good lines to match. I'm not feeling Fish Mooney personally. They seem to be trying too hard to make her menacing but she should really already be dead. I do like their take on Penguin, though. It doesn't entirely make sense but it's better than Burgess Meredith. It hasn't blown me away but it hasn't made me want to turn it off at any point yet.

I'm not liking Mooney much either.  I just don't buy Jada Pinkett Smith as a menacing mobster.  I'm hoping they off her by the end of season 1.

I likey almost everybody except Fish Mooney as well, she can't die soon enough. Alfred is a bit different, but it makes sense that he would be a bit overwhelmed by having to care for a child all of a sudden. He can still mellow with age.

The biggest problem with this show continues to be Fish Mooney. The character is just fucking terrible.

Sadly, this makes me think she will continue to be a big part of the show.

I place the blame for that solely on the shoulders of Will Smith.

Thing is, I have no problem with Jada Pinkett Smith. She's clearly being told by the directors to chew the everliving fuck out of the scenery. I just think the character itself is fucking idiotic. The whole "act like I'm a boy and seduce me" thing just had my eyes rolling SO HARD.

Her accent grates on me. That's about the only thing. I think she's supposed to be the over-the-top stupid villain you can't wait to see die. For various reasons.

Still like the show. Like hot chick cat fight in the last episode.

Finally caught up on this in a marathon this morning. I like it, but I'm with Haemish on how all over the place it is. Really liking Gordon, Bullock, Nygman, Penguin, Falcone, Marone. Hate Fish, but probably as others have said: I'm supposed to.

What sells it for me is that few are just cardboard cut outs. There's enough dimensionality to keep it interesting for the most part.

Just said over in Flash though: the thing I don't like is I know just enough about the lore that it feels painfully slow how each character is building up. I wish I knew less so I could enjoy it more.

How much farther does Penguin have to go?  He is a little naïve for the Penguin, and not quite fat and old enough, but the personality seems about fully developed at this point to me.  What growth, other than lbs and wrinkles, does he need?

I know the basic Batman lore but the rest of the characters in Gotham, the Flash or Constantine are blank slates for me.  Of the three shows I find Gotham the most watchable. The Flash is ok but I feel like the show isn't really aimed at people like me.  I'm not sure about Constantine, the concept is sort of interesting but the pilot seemed weak, I'll DVR a couple more episodes but I have the feeling this one is going to be a miss for me as well.

As someone who has watched too many police procedural shows in my day, coupled with what I know about Batman lore, this show is boring as fuck.  You are better off just watching Castle.

Last episode was bad. I switched over about midway through to the football game.

Highlight was the bimbo they dressed up in nerd garb as Nygma's crush.

I actually liked it. Not the goat thing, per se, but they are finally starting to do something interesting with the characters. Also, no Fish Mooney.

That. I enjoyed it. Liked that Bullock wasn't a complete dick, and Nygma was interesting. Also good to see Gordon in fisticuffs. Was an interesting story, I didn't quite see the twist coming. I'm sure I'm just stupid like that, but like I said: ignorance adds to my entertainment :-)

Finished watching the latest episode and I really liked it. I didn't necessarily buy Bullock's switch, but they finally gave Donal Logue some good lines to work with so I'll take it. Did anyone notice that Victor Zsasz (a future Batman villian/serial killer) was played by the same guy who just played the Mist on Flash.

Necro!

I'm just now getting around to this show on Netflix.  I dig it. 

I really like the characterizations of Bruce Wayne, Penguin, and Riddler.  They did a great job not making Bruce too "cute" -- he comes off as a realistically precocious and serious kid.  I love how the Riddler's core personality of egotistical cleverness is already fully formed and all that's really different about him from the supervillain version of him is his circumstances.  And I really like the slow arc of the Penguin in becoming a power player -- all that barely concealed frustration as he grovels to his various bosses while looking for the spot to slip the knife is wonderful.

Gordon and Bullock are fine; I think their dynamic improves as Bullock becomes less "generic crooked cop" and we see him struggling to walk the line to some extent.

The first season kinda drags and I hated Jada Pinkett throughout the whole season.  Second season already has a different tone to it and I am interested again to see what happens.

Thought the last episode was epic, digging the "jerome" joker.

I haven't watched the 2nd episode this season but I thought most of the first season worked as a different take on the Batman/Gotham mythos - except for Fish Mooney. God she was SO FUCKING AWFUL from start to finish. The show is better for her loss. The new season started pretty strong, IMO. Lots of room for character development and tension.

The maniax seem interesting but the whole angsty Bruce Wayne stuff is just boring and might as well be replaced by more Penguin stuff to balance the insane with the more organized side of crime (and Gordon being forced to recognize that sometimes status quo isn't so bad when the alternative is something like the maniax)

Welp, that went right the fuck off the deep end, in a good way. I think the proper way to watch this show is to stop trying to figure out how they are going to turn these characters into a Batman story and just enjoy the ride. THE CRAZY CRAZY INSANE-O RIDE. Kid Joker is KILLING it, as is the Riddler. And I'm really digging Guy Ritchie's Alfred.

This season is hitting it's stride.

I wasn't into this last season, but have heard good things since they got rid of Fish (She made the show unwatchable for me.) Having a good time watching so far.

Fix your spoiler tag, yo.

That caught me by surprise - and I can't tell if I like the surprise of it more than I hate what the show is missing out on...

Goddamnit, missed that for several hours. Yay meetings.

Bottom line is, Gotham is right now about the only show capable of giving you game of throne type twists and game of thrones type writing.

100%.  A very high standard was set for the next actor to take it on in a major way....

I have to admit I'm only tuning in and watching s1 for the first time for the Penguin. Best actor on the show. 

This was one of my favorite episodes so far. Capped off a really solid origin story for Riddler and finally let Penguin do something over the top Penguiny both on the same show. Penguin's plan was over the top and campy, but I didn't mind that.

Sometimes I cringe at the contrasts on this show. It'll go from so over the top campy with a Tim Burton vibe, like the entire character of Theo Galvan (who I'm liking less and less each episode). And then you'll have stuff like the Riddler subplot that is just so well acted that you put up with the fact that all the smart characters on the show should have seen through Galvan from the get go. Galvan is actually becoming this seasons' Fish Mooney - I can't wait until they move on from him.

So this is back for the second half of its season 2 and I really enjoyed the first episode with mr. Freeze (Fries) for the rather dark atmosphere of the entire episode (with no scenes of Bruce spoiling the pacing).  :grin:

I'd grown tired of this show and was only watching it in the background while doing other tasks... but the return of Jerome (the future Joker) has given it a real nice punch.  If you gave up, I might go back to it.

Yeah, I love what they have done with the Joker in this show.

And I lost interest when Jerome disappeared. However, renewed.

Just watched the season finale. Lead exactly where I expected it to with the Bruce story. Couple interesting twists, further character developments, and some surprising deaths.

Spoiler fail.

I had to struggle through season one of this show but as its continued I've really come to enjoy it. I'm really curious to see where things go now especially after the Season 3 finale