f13.net

There's also some info on other stuff, like SRM, but you should read the whole thing yourself. (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/126651-heat-scale-and-general-update/) They also let us vote on the damage bump for SRM in July 30th patch (voting has decided that). Interesting. Also, overheat damage now starts at 101%. I really, really like this.

Good enough to hurt high alpha?

God, these people are terrible. Instead of actually fixing the problem, their solution to a system that is systemically too big for them to balance is to add yet another system with an asspull number for each weapon type in the game?

welllll we'll definitely, uh

be seeing more build .. variety .. maybe?

mission accomplished obv

my issue is i dont even think its going to stop high alpha meta.  you can still boat 4 ppcs and fire 2 then 2 with little/no penalty.  or 3ppc and gauss, fire 2 then 1 ppc or just take a small heat penalty for firing 3 ppc.  wake me when its over.

I know it is unpopular to ever say anything positive, and I agree that this solution is far from a good one (which would have required much more re-design and I am sure they are scared to death to do it), but boys you really love to be angry. This might not be the best one, but do you really believe this is gonna leave shit unaffected?

And please note that it is not just a heat penalty that will make 'mechs shut down earlier, but by lowering the threshold for internal damage (something we've been asking for a long time) it means big alpha will: a) shut you down sooner and b) hurt yourself sooner.

And in Schpain's example, if you shoot 2 ppcs 0.5 secs away from each other (if you can discipline yourself to do that, because in the heat of battle either you shoot slightly before the 0.5, incurring in the penalty, or slightly later, lowering your dps) that is simply not an alpha strike anymore and there are lots of chances to have the damage spread in two different locations, so again while not perfect it DOES something against big alphas.

Also, buff to SRM and means a little bit of brawling back.

Can't we ever keep being harshly critical but crack a smile when something improves, even if by little, the actual game?

As long as they are trying to fix the problem I'm somewhat happy. I'm curious about the max alpha on lrm15 (and not other lrms) since it seems to be against some specific build rather than just stacking lrms (and I prefer spacing out lrms anyway for extended stagger effect)

edit:double anyway

Also of note is the complete absence of penalty on all pulse lasers. But then again, I am sure they are gonna change the hell out of that table before launch.

It's a start.  At least the max alpha numbers are more reasonable than what they first proposed, too.

Now if we can get heat scale effects between 0 and 30...

The way they have it presented PPC and ERPPC are split in to different categories, implying I can still fire 4 PPCs at once without a penalty.

They clarified that will be the case by next Tuesday's patch, but it is already planned to be changed in the July 30th patch. All PPCs will be grouped together when it comes to alpha limit. You won't be able to do that without a heat penalty past July 30th.

I'm glad they are aware that spider mech's are able to shrug off a noticeable percentage of hits.

So bitter! It's a step in the right direction and hopefully I'll be playing more now that the TSW anniversary event is finishing up

upon re-reading that post i can see why it came off as 'bitter' (thanks llyse).  they recognise that high alpha meta is hurting the game, and are fixing it.  i like this.  

i've got small ancillary rants about light mechs sporting ppcs and whatever, but really, my biggest issue is all these steps on the path to 'what the game should be' is hurting PGI in terms of player numbers.   its taking too long to fix this game and with only my anecdotal evidence to back up my point, i feel like they've already lost a tonne of the players i'd like to see in this game, instead of the boating poptarting headshot kids.

i like to feel like i'm running a mech that's at least on some level faithful to the battletech universe, but it flies in the face of most efficient gameplay.  add to it the delay on community war; i just feel like they released a game too early and won't have anywhere near the deserved level of hype when the game is actually released.  

ok, i'm bitter.  but i still want this game to be good.  hopefully these changes make more of a difference than we're theorising.  

edit:

my (neck)beard clippings.
(http://www.quirk-hyll.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/1333455250_35179c3fc4.jpg)

Update from Paul.

I don't see much of a difference. Still saw a 4man squad of pop-tarting PPC Highlanders decimate a PUG team.

Yes, it's mine impression too that the Heat Scale Penalty didn't change much. I am sure it has statistically reduced the amount of PPC alpha, but definitely not enough or in a perceivable way. Like, say, 5%? Who the fuck cares about 5%.

July 30th patch will hit it a little more by pooling PPC and ER PPC in the same Heat Penalty bucket (Because they are not at the moment there's plenty of 2PPC+2ERPPC which are literally unaffected by the penalty), and there's a chance they will have their heat increased as Paul announced, regardless of the penalty. Looking forward to that.

I'll be honest though - there is an increased amount of PPC mixing.  Many mechs have been observed with the diversity of BOTH PPC and ER PPC now.

 :oh_i_see:

Heat damage doesn't do much to internals.  I overheated a few times the first day and nada.  So you either have to shut down more than 2-3 seconds or the damage is insignificant.

The internal damage isn't much, but it had killed me a few times already, and I've seen people self-destruct in front of me while I was dueling them. It really hurts those big 'mechs that are already in trouble (red internal) and feel like shooting a final big alpha like it doesn't matter. So I'd say it mostly kills those who were about to die anyway, but sometimes it definitely explodes them before they can try the same trick again.

It also depends a lot on how much over 100% the overheating strike actually drives you, as the DOT damage keeps hurting you until you get back to 99%.

So, so stupid.

What? Heat Damage is not what a heat penalty should be (Tabletop), but it's better than nothing.

As far as I can see, it IS pretty much nothing.

100% heat.  You assplode.

Done.

Yeah heat remains meaningless unless you were going to die anyway, in which case, oh no I died 2 seconds earlier.  The shutdown is the concern more than the actual heat, unless you can alpha a bitch to flinders.

I see. Well, I agree with that.

There are only 8 players per team.  It doesn't matter if you shutdown, or if you take some internal damage or blah blah blah blah.  All that matters is when the enemy gets more of them than there are of you.  Particularly in the long range coring game that's going on.

So it doesn't matter a FUCK if the guy takes internal damage or shuts down if he's already pulled your insides out through your ass.

What matters MORE is if he FUCKING ASSPLODES trying to do that.  I want the chaps who kill and enemy stone dead through this shitty overheating boating nonsense to just BLOW UP so it's a zero sum game and we can go back to building proper mechs, rather than this shite.

By the way, 12 vs 12 public test starting in 78 minutes.

yeah my pledge was "I will keep playing my ppc alpha mech until the first time i kill myself from overheating"

scores of games later, the worst I do is occasionally daintily yellow my ct internals after firing four ppc's from 99% heat

Yeah I played my first few games last night since the slope patch and first impression is it's ok?

The speed loss is really severe for Heavy/Assaults so it means brawlers need to be A LOT smarter about their approach. This wouldn't be a bad thing but it makes ppc sniping a much much more easier option for the braindead.

Anecdotal evidence from here and playing against ppcs seems like the change has made close to zero impact to the snipe game...

Sadface, I'm definitely reconsidering getting a Phoenix pack...

Sam has a wonderful argument against getting a Phoenix pack he shared on Vent the other night.

Was it like that old joke :

"How you do keep an arsehole in suspense ?"

Yeah I'm out... sadface.

Crazy article from Paul (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/127904-heat-scale-the-maths/) about the math behind the Heat Penalty Scale.

The only useful thing coming from that is the hinting at additional weapons grouped together towards the Heat Penalty the same way PPC and ER PPC are going to. Possibly missiles, as many are circumventing the penalty on the splatcat or long range boats by mixing different SRMs and LRMs. Wondering about Gauss, since what the penalty really achieved has been to push every cheesemonger out there to 2ERPPC+Gauss builds.

All of which were predictable outcomes that even I pointed out.  If the game devs couldn't figure that shit out before pushing this half-assedly out the door the game is in worse trouble than you'd think.


I dunno, are you in suspense?  :grin:

It boiled-down to, "Zero confidence in the developers to do anything good or logical with this game. Sending them money is supporting a failed product."  He was far more eloquent.

i want my apology Falc!!

XD

Schpain, I really do apologise when needed. (See: Vanguard and more).

But here there's really no reason for one yet. "Game is dead" because Ironwood got bored? Sorry, the game is not dead at all.

When it'll be, if it'll be soon enough, be assured I will admit I was wrong.

I think the game has atleast until the community warfare patch (unless they delay it to next year or something) before you can say that it might be dying. If it was left as it is then it would fade into obscurity since there is nothing to keep the majority of players playing past (whatever the average number of) weeks/months it now takes to get bored with the lack of progression and variety.

I'm still playing it.

Some changes are starting to happen, but not enough to call the patch a success.  I'm seeing more varied loadouts, but I suspect that's just people fucking around to see what's been made overpowered this time. 

I completely agree with that.

I also think that, no matter what, Community Warfare is gonna disappoint pretty much everyone. Too many expectations. People are hoping, dreaming about some sort of EVE, or any room for roleplaying, which is something they clearly stated it is never gonna happen and they simply don't have the resource to make. The reaction to finally finding out that Community Warfare is nothing more than a faction grind for decals and patterns, and that territorial control part will only be for big mean minmaxing guilds and probably hidden behind a paywall will be rageful.

If I had to make predictions, I would say that:

- First step into Community Warfare will be just the introduction of Factions (the 6 lore houses), which you will earn Loyalty Points with through grinding. You will also be able to buy XP boosts with real money. People will loudly hate this.

- Loyalty Points will give players Titles, unique decals, paintjobs, and eventually some unique Epic 'mechs with some unique perks. The grind will be insane and people will freak out. Also, more "Pay 2 Win" allegations, and possibly more "Pay 2 Win" real stuff, like Coolshot 18.

- When they will finally introduce territorial control it will be a thing just for the meanest and strongest groups, and it will be available only to Premium (paying) users. Community will freak out even more, including those who would have probably never fought a single territorial battle even if it was free, but still they will feel betrayed. "We waited all this time for JUST THIS?! OMGG!".

- Rewards for holding territories will range from bragging rights and some unique decals and maybe c-bills and some unique 'mech part. People will freak out that the rewards are useless or too good, so they will nerf/boost them into making them the opposite, forever and ever, and there will be constant complains about how the Community Warfare rewards are either too bad or too good, with no solution apparently ever able to make people happy.

In the end, I think that in a game that does NOT have the scope of EVE, or a true MMORPG, the concept of any kind of persistent war is easily gonna be disappointing if what you dreamt about is something "meaningful", long term, and satisfying. I am sure there are ways this could be done if not right at least decently, but I am also sure that they don't have the resources or the talent to come up with something balanced, addictive and unique, so barring surprises I have a feeling that Community Warfare will be the last drop that will definitely kill it for most players.

Still, I don't think that will kill the game. I think CW's flop will kill the game's buzz for good, but it won't kill the game itself. There's just too many people addicted to the BT/MW lore to quit, and the game is definitely entertaining enough as a free to play original shooter especially when it'll have a new UI and a tutorial. So with more features and a possible Steam release this game will be alive and well (for them, as in monemaking) for a long time.

But if I had to make predictions now, I'd say that Community Warfare will be quite a disaster, and will turn off lots and lots of people, killing the internet vibe and giving it a bad name. At that point though the game will have enough stuff and features to pull in lots of new players who don't have any resentment towards PGI and will just enjoy the game for what it is, making it a profitable product that will successfully run in the background for the next five years or more.

So I don't see any big success in MWO's future, but I don't see it dying. Although it depends on what you call "dying" for a project of this scope (started with 10 employees).


On the patch, I agree that not enough changed after last week's ones. I think it'll be interesting to see what happens after they link more weapons together in the anti-boat rule (Gauss is rumored to get in there somehow), on top of the flat heat increase to PPC family.