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f13.net General Forums => World of Warcraft => Topic started by: luckton on June 12, 2013, 05:53:07 AM



Title: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on June 12, 2013, 05:53:07 AM
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3274-Patch-5-4-PTR-Build-17056

Because copy/pasta of that entire page would probably break things here.

Highlights:

- Siege of Orgrimmar + boss list
- Season 14 and tier 16 gears
- Patch 5.4 adds Virtual Realms, which will essentially merge lower population realms. This will allow you to keep playing on your current realm, but do arenas, raids, and dungeons with people in your realm group, as well as use a merged Auction House and trade with other players in your realm group.
- Patch 5.4 also adds Proving Grounds, with four different difficulty levels for trials: Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Endless. Endless difficulty matches you up against enemies of constantly increasing difficulty.
- Patch 5.4 also adds a new scenario: The Celestial Tournament. Its achievement is listed under Pet Battles.
- A new Darkmoon boss will make an appearance, a giant Dire Wolf. He appears to drop a pet, a mount, and a transmog weapon.
- A new pet battle tournament is coming to the Timeless Isle.
- The chance for awarding loot from kills or bonus rolls has been increased for Mogu'shan Vaults, Heart of Fear, Terrace of Endless Spring, and Throne of Thunder on Raid Finder difficulty.
- The chance for awarding loot from using a bonus roll has been increased for Throne of Thunder on Normal difficulty.
- Players who obtain a realm-best time in a Challenge Mode dungeon will receive a temporary title specific to each dungeon which will persist for as long as a player retains the top time on the realm. They will also receive a Feat of Strength.
- All permanent item enhancements provided by Enchanting, Engineering, Leatherworking, Tailoring, and various vendors and quests are now able to be applied to items of any level. The effects of these enchantments will be scaled down to the level of the player using the item.

Corrupted Garrosh is basically a Garrosh/Sha hybrid.  Looks alright.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on June 12, 2013, 06:07:51 AM
- Patch 5.4 adds Virtual Realms, which will essentially merge lower population realms. This will allow you to keep playing on your current realm, but do arenas, raids, and dungeons with people in your realm group, as well as use a merged Auction House and trade with other players in your realm group.

This will be huge for some low pop servers if this works out well.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on June 12, 2013, 01:18:47 PM
So it's basically server mergers but don't call it server mergers because that's bad!


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2013, 01:29:18 PM
So it's basically server mergers but don't call it server mergers because that's bad!

Yep. Kinda shows how purposeless "servers" are now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on June 12, 2013, 02:08:51 PM
So it's basically server mergers but don't call it server mergers because that's bad!

Well, people get to retain their character/guild names, so it's not as abrasive as real server merges.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 12, 2013, 04:06:49 PM
I REALLY would like to fight a boss who isn't corrupted by old gods/burning legions/dark magics. Can't we just kill Garrosh because, fuck that guy?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2013, 04:16:51 PM
No because OMGBIAS


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 12, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Not sure which bias you mean but I think horde players hate him more than alliance.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2013, 04:23:12 PM
I mean Metzen's a moron and thinks there's a bias if you don't go to the Old God well for the umpteenth time.

EDIT:

Metzen boss ideas:

- Corrupted by Old Gods?
- Require both sides to ally against a greater threat?
- Undead and or possibly decaying?
- Bugs?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 12, 2013, 04:24:20 PM
Oh yeah, wow storytelling at it's finest.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 12, 2013, 04:39:06 PM
I REALLY would like to fight a boss who isn't corrupted by old gods/burning legions/dark magics. Can't we just kill Garrosh because, fuck that guy?
To be fair, Garrosh isn't so much "corrupted by Old Gods" as "Thought his father had the right idea, just the wrong power source". Is it really "corruption" per se when he's sending teams out to dig up the dead (hah) heart of a slain (ahaha) Old God so he can barbeque it the next time he gets the munchies?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 12, 2013, 04:43:30 PM
He's a douche in need of a sharp axe any way you spin it. It's not that he becomes corrupt in the way he falls from grace, since he never had any. It's more about mixing in ancient powers, old gods and EEEEEVIL when there is no good reason for it.  It's because Metzen doesn't think you can write epic or compelling stories without an evil mcguffin.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 12, 2013, 04:45:15 PM
Yeah, but Hellscream. "Like father, like son" isn't exactly original but it's more justification than most 'felnethercorruption' plots.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fordel on June 12, 2013, 05:21:54 PM
Do they explain what/how the Alliance is doing in the siege? I haven't kept up to date on my Metzen fan fiction in a long time now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on June 12, 2013, 09:15:31 PM
It's ok.  We will have plenty of time to get over yet another "corrupted" boss by time we get to the last expantion where we deal with Sargeras, the corrupted Titan.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on June 13, 2013, 09:50:24 AM
I don't think Garrosh will be "corrupted" in the sense that other bosses have been. There isn't anything indicating that he's lost control of himself to the Old God and the Dungeon Journal doesn't seem to suggest this either. More likely, he's still 100% Douchebag Garrosh but is using the old god "Heart" he found in Pandaria as a weapon against us.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on June 13, 2013, 10:01:29 AM
Also, about the Vale in the next patch


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 13, 2013, 10:51:32 AM
...

(http://images.wikia.com/thehungergames/images/c/c2/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on June 13, 2013, 11:02:53 AM
Will they also be removing the rep requirements on the Golden Lotus' Leatherworking recipes?
Or, offering alternate ways to get rep?

Or is this all happening in a phase.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 13, 2013, 02:36:41 PM
Do they explain what/how the Alliance is doing in the siege? I haven't kept up to date on my Metzen fan fiction in a long time now.
The Alliance is 'supporting' the Darkspear in their revolt in the time-honoured strategy of "Let's you and him fight". Plus at least half the (long) list of "People with a reason to be pissed off at Hellscream Jr" are Alliance starting with Jaina, then King Rip Steakface and so on.

e: As it happens, I was doing the 5.3 quest on my highest level Alliance alt tonight -
(http://i.minus.com/iMlMIT79OdvhI.png)
(http://i.minus.com/ibuS8dywuDAh3U.png)
(http://i.minus.com/ibuzbiUraMM38A.png)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 14, 2013, 10:38:12 AM
Hey guys, remember how everyone hated the Golden Lotus dailies in the Vale of Eternal Blossom?

Good news!

(http://i.imgur.com/7QIVUdp.jpg)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on June 14, 2013, 10:49:45 AM
Ohhh. The Mogu'nath got knocked down.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 20, 2013, 10:54:33 AM
http://ptr.wowdb.com/achievements/8448-gamon-will-save-us#17056-17093

Quote
Gamon Will Save Us!   10 Points

Defeat General Nazgrim in Siege of Orgrimmar on Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty while Gamon is alive and participating in the battle.

 :drill:

Also: Garrosh isn't corrupted. He's using Sha/Old God-blood to empower himself, but it's been his decision all along and he's still in control.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 20, 2013, 01:20:21 PM
Going to the old god well never gets old does it?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 20, 2013, 01:43:49 PM
Ragnaros - corrupted by banishment
Nefarian - always a dick
C'Thun - actual old god
Kael'Thas - corrupted by magic addiction
Kel'Thuzad - corrupted by Lich King
Lady Vashj - corrupted by the Great Sundering
Illidan - corrupted by the skull of the guy who was corrupted by Kil'jaden.
Yogg Saron - actual old god
Arthas - corrupted by a sword
Deathwing - corrupted by old gods
Garrosh - corrupted by old god blood


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 20, 2013, 02:18:28 PM
Ragnaros - corrupted by banishment
Nefarian - always a dick
C'Thun - actual old god
Kael'Thas - corrupted by magic addiction
Kel'Thuzad - corrupted by Lich King
Lady Vashj - corrupted by the Great Sundering
Illidan - corrupted by the skull of the guy who was corrupted by Kil'jaden.
Yogg Saron - actual old god
Arthas - corrupted by a sword
Deathwing - corrupted by old gods
Garrosh - corrupted by old god blood

Ragnaros and all the elemental lords I believe were supposed to be servants of the old gods right? At least Ragnaros was.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 21, 2013, 11:28:16 AM
Ragnaros - corrupted by banishment
Nefarian - always a dick
C'Thun - actual old god
Kael'Thas - corrupted by magic addiction
Kel'Thuzad - corrupted by Lich King
Lady Vashj - corrupted by the Great Sundering
Illidan - corrupted by the skull of the guy who was corrupted by Kil'jaden.
Yogg Saron - actual old god
Arthas - corrupted by a sword
Deathwing - corrupted by old gods
Garrosh - corrupted by old god blood
Sorry, I wasn't clear - that statement in my earlier post is a paraphrase of the dev team. to wit: Garrosh isn't corrupted, he's fully in control and juicing himself on dead Old God blood because he thinks its a good idea, not because someone's whispering commands to do it in his head. In other words, the only lesson he learnt from his father was "Demons = Bad" instead of, you know, "Becoming a power-hungry fascist maniac is a bed idea in and of itself, demon blood just made it worse".

Going to the old god well never gets old does it?
Yeah, it's not like they've been building up to this since the very first quest hub in MoP or anything. (http://www.wowhead.com/quest=31771)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 21, 2013, 12:15:24 PM
No, they weren't eluding to old gods since the very first quest. Yes they probably planned to have it be an old god the whole time but they never eluded to anything except that Sha fed off negative emotions.  That it's another old god imprisoned by titans was likely planned but never really for-shadowed and quite frankly it's a story they've already told in WOTLK with Yogg Saron, it's just lazy storytelling to have another old god being responsible.

It was fun the first time, cool the second but it's really getting old.  Also Garrosh didn't even learn that "demons=bad cause he's doing the exact same thing. 


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 21, 2013, 01:01:17 PM
I'd like for somebody just to be evil because they are either a dick bent on crushing people, or because they were trying to achieve good through really bad means. Not because they were corrupted by outside forces. Unless you are a demon, you're usually corrupted by some power of the old gods.

The closest we got was the Blood Prince. He was making shady ass alliances to save his people and went way too far. Arthas I can't really say was completely corrupted either, because he was always a flawed hero looking for any means necessary long before the sword came along.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ingmar on June 21, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
It doesn't matter how long they were planning it, it's just shamefully predictable at this point.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on June 21, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
Yeah, I'd really like to have a villain that was bad for the sake of being bad as opposed to this "old god" nonsense.  The problem is
Sargeras, the corrupted Titan.

All roads lead back to this douche.  There wouldn't have been an "evil" Horde without him, or the Lich King, Illidan, or any of the non-corrupted villains.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 21, 2013, 01:40:21 PM
Sargeras wasn't corrupted originally was he? I thought he was just evil and they will probably retcon corruption somewhere.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 21, 2013, 01:44:39 PM
Sargeras wasn't corrupted originally was he? I thought he was just evil and they will probably retcon corruption somewhere.

He was supposedly altruistic and just, and then corrupted by the Dreadlords. So yes, they retconned in some corruption.

Of course nobody knows anything about why the demons are demons or where they come from. Because we can't go that far back.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on June 21, 2013, 01:45:47 PM
The demons are all titan street cleaning machines who suffered the curse of flesh and were then corrupted by the old gods!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 21, 2013, 01:48:49 PM
But who corrupted the old gods!!!

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 21, 2013, 02:16:39 PM
Wait, I thought all the demons were created by sargeras, not the other way around.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 21, 2013, 02:20:24 PM
He fought the demons as defender of the Titans or some shit.

Then he got melancholy and decided to turn on the Titans and release all the demons.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ingmar on June 21, 2013, 02:20:53 PM
It all got retconned around the creation of the draenei as a player race IIRC.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on June 21, 2013, 02:24:15 PM
Yes, which I only know because I remember the bitching about 'destroying the lore' so we could get Alliance Space Goats with fantastic asses.

But who corrupted the old gods!!!

 :ye_gods:

Marty McFly needs to stop leaving his time machine unlocked. That's all I'm saying.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rendakor on June 21, 2013, 03:02:44 PM
It's old gods all the way down.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 21, 2013, 03:53:51 PM
No, they weren't eluding to old gods since the very first quest. Yes they probably planned to have it be an old god the whole time but they never eluded to anything except that Sha fed off negative emotions.  That it's another old god imprisoned by titans was likely planned but never really for-shadowed and quite frankly it's a story they've already told in WOTLK with Yogg Saron, it's just lazy storytelling to have another old god being responsible.

It was fun the first time, cool the second but it's really getting old.  Also Garrosh didn't even learn that "demons=bad cause he's doing the exact same thing. 
The sha are the remains of a dead (or "dead") Old God - specifically, the one the Titans killed and they went "Welp that created more problems than it fixed. Just gonna shove them into deep holes in the ground from now on". That's been in MoP since 5.0

I'd like for somebody just to be evil because they are either a dick bent on crushing people, or because they were trying to achieve good through really bad means. Not because they were corrupted by outside forces. Unless you are a demon, you're usually corrupted by some power of the old gods.
You mean like Garrosh is?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 21, 2013, 03:56:38 PM
I don't know enough about the Garrosh line, but any time you bring in drinking power from the demon source, that's the corruption well again.

I would rather they just have him act like a douche the whole way into his inevitable grave without any outside influences.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 21, 2013, 04:03:36 PM
Garrosh sips down the purple drank Y'Shaarj blood in phase three of a three-phase fight as the Final Boss of the Final Raid of the expansion (and even at that point Blizzard are saying "Yep, he's still in control - the blood is a tool, Garrosh is the one using it")

Prior to that point? All pure, uncorrupted Garrosh. The ghetto-isation of the other Horde races in Orgimmar, the nuking of Theramore, the attempt to murder Vol'jin in cold blood, the determination to seize Pandaria for the Horde, the promotion of orcs as the One, True Horde are all him, all by himself.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 21, 2013, 08:39:02 PM
Then I object to putting the corruption blood portion in at all. Sounds like it was fine having him as a one-dimensional douche.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 21, 2013, 10:08:36 PM
I'd just like to know where in the original campaign it is said that sha=old god.  I'm sure they planned that from the beginning but the entire MOP storyline suggest the land itself manifest negative emotions into reality and that there were titan shenanigans going on. There's nothing that ties the sha to old gods until the later patches.

Also wasn't the old god that the titans killed the one in kalimdor? The one with the giant sword in it's head?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on June 22, 2013, 01:34:41 AM
I'd just like to know where in the original campaign it is said that sha=old god.  I'm sure they planned that from the beginning but the entire MOP storyline suggest the land itself manifest negative emotions into reality and that there were titan shenanigans going on. There's nothing that ties the sha to old gods until the later patches.

Also wasn't the old god that the titans killed the one in kalimdor? The one with the giant sword in it's head?
The tie in comes from the exalted with Klaxxi bonus questline, where it is revealed that the Klaxxi worshiped Y'sharraj, the beast with seven heads, who breathed seven breaths, which upon his "death" at the hands of the Titans infected the land with shadow.   That was content available in the launch day Mists expantion.  While it is never outright stated untill later, it is heavily implied from that reference that the Sha are the embodiment of the old god's dying gasp.

Most of the old god linkage is in Shadow of the Empire (http://www.wowhead.com/quest=31612), trying to remember where the 7 breaths thing comes from.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 22, 2013, 06:03:06 AM
Ah well of course it makes sense they would tie it all in together, I have to say though that the old god shit has worn out it's welcome.  Fighting old gods as a major theme of a game is fine and all but it just feels like the same territory is being gone over.  New expansion? New old god!


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 22, 2013, 06:48:52 AM
AFAIK it's the only real pure evil they have in WoW.

They don't seem to want to head down the demonic route for some reason, even though I liked that in TBC.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 22, 2013, 07:00:11 AM
Old gods would be fine if they didn't become some generic boogeyman.  Just coming up with new old gods(hah!) all the time reeks of a monster-of-the-week tv show.  It's a lot like smallville when the first kryptonite powered badguys were a neat idea and then they just kept coming back to it...

Wow doesn't have a list of old gods anywhere do they? I thought there were only six or so.  Wasn't the giant maw in twilight highlands an old god? Was Deathwing posessed by one? There are so many random bits of lore floating around and it's all gotten so confusing.  Some things were old gods, some things were servants of the old gods...OG,OG,OG. It's just blended into "well, I guess an old god did it" which is a terrible, terrible commentary on their story.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on June 22, 2013, 07:14:15 AM
There are five 'known' Old Gods.

- We killed C'thun in Vanilla
- We killed Yogg-Saron in Wrath
- N'zoth is still buried deep underground.  Reported to have influenced Deathwing, the corruption of the high elfs that turned into Naga, and is currently corrupting the Emerald Dream.  Will more than likely be kicking his ass in the next expansion
- Y'Shaarj was killed by the Titans way back when they were fighting them back during creation.  When Y'Shaarj simply split into 7 lesser beings (which we came to know has the seven Sha 'sins' that we're currently fighting in MoP), the Titans gave up on trying to kill the gods and tried to imprison them instead. 
- As for the fifth, beats me.  I'm just going off of the in-game lorelol.  :why_so_serious:

Why the Titans couldn't stop the old gods without further corruption but we can is derpy.  But anyways, the lore also says that there could be other 'old gods' on planets and areas beyond Azeroth, so don't expect them to go away anytime soon.  Just as we have to have a troll dungeon/raid every expansion, the old gods' influence will be there too.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 22, 2013, 07:21:15 AM
These discussions about lore always head to a point where I get just  :facepalm: about the whole thing.

Since nobody really takes it seriously here, we can discuss it without the crazed nerd factor, but can you imagine the shit they deal with at Blizzcon? I'd never open the floor to questions, and I like to write.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Soulflame on June 22, 2013, 08:27:49 AM
What about that night elf that ran off last expansion?  The jackass xenophobe druid, who then became a boss.  Wasn't he more or less "evil", but he was trying to serve the interests of the night elves as he saw best?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on June 22, 2013, 10:30:35 AM
What about that night elf that ran off last expansion?  The jackass xenophobe druid, who then became a boss.  Wasn't he more or less "evil", but he was trying to serve the interests of the night elves as he saw best?

He went crazy, corrupted by the corrupted emerald dream.   In other words. "An old god did it."

 :why_so_serious:
Wow doesn't have a list of old gods anywhere do they? I thought there were only six or so.  Wasn't the giant maw in twilight highlands an old god?

That was the rumor since vanilla, based on the original quest text.  Nobody knew for sure until Cataclysm when the Twilight cult started excavating.  It's just a big servant of the old gods, one of those squid guys, named Shoggoth.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Master's_Glaive


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Nevermore on June 22, 2013, 12:03:05 PM
That's Darkshore.  He was talking about Twilight Highlands, The Maw of Madness (http://www.wowwiki.com/Maw_of_Madness), which apparently is only a servant to an Old God.

And Paelos, if they didn't want to deal with this shit at Blizzcon then they shouldn't write such shitty lore.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on June 22, 2013, 01:31:59 PM
Whoops, yeah. I thought someone mentioned Darkshore's bit and I just misquoted while on the iPad but upon review I see I am just crazy.

Why the Titans couldn't stop the old gods without further corruption but we can is derpy.
(now that I'm on the PC and can quote/ type properly..)

Yeah this is the biggest bit of derp in the whole thing.  I can accept, "Ok, OGs corrupt everything and the seals the Titans built are failing after all these millenia."  Shit's been going sideways on Azeroth, world-breaking forces have rocked the planet since the Burning Legion first helped the Orcs to invade. The equilibrium failed, whatever. It almost makes sense.

That the Titans were so immensely powerful they could shape the entire planet, create life and lock away these forces but couldn't kill them and now we, the cursed offspring of their creations, could is just a bunch of garbage.  It leads you, the player, to make totally asinine assumptions and conclusions like this one at Joystiq (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/05/19/know-your-lore-tinfoil-hat-edition-celestials-ancients-and-as/).  Curse of the flesh is a self-defense! The Planet is ALIVE!   It's using US to destroy the Titan's awful influence and return to a state of chaos!

 :facepalm:

The sad part is.. it's more logical than whatever derp Metzen will eventually shit-out to explain it.  If he does at all. I really want someone here to go to Blizzcon and ask this of the panel this year.  "Why can we kill the Old Gods when the Titans tried and just created the Sha."


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on June 22, 2013, 05:31:08 PM
Ulduar/Uldum I think imply that the Titans couldn't obliterate the Old Gods since they had infected Azeroth too much and doing so (at least destroying them the way THEY would like to) would destroy their creation.

Why the Titans can't kill OGs is probably easily handwaved away with the Titans having a particular method they like to use to do so.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 22, 2013, 06:12:55 PM
I am to assume the titans are "the final boss" though, since everything seems to be setting up mortals vs gods.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rendakor on June 22, 2013, 07:09:26 PM
There was an old god in WC3:TFT as well, during the Undead campaign. I'm not sure if that was also Yogg-Saron and Arthas just failed to kill it, or if it was retconned into being something else.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on June 23, 2013, 12:18:21 AM
Of course, that always beggs the question:

Why exactly do you make the assumption that "We" have managed to actually "kill" ANY of them?   Has blizzard every been quoted as outright stating that we have actually killed Yogg or C'thun?   I would find it MUCH easier to believe that we basicly just beat the thing back into a semi-dormant state allowing what ever Titan falesafes were in place to clamp back down on them again.

And yeah, considering the old Titan Lore keeper who used to be out front of the broken gates in Tanaris actually stated that our planet had been scheduled for a "revisitation" I completely wouldnt be surprised if the actual Titans themselves show up at some point.  I just hope that when they do, Blizz does not cop out and attempt to let us kill one.  If a Titan is as powerfull as it supposedly should be, it would Crush 40 man raids like bugs.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 23, 2013, 04:29:15 AM
Of course, that always beggs the question:

Why exactly do you make the assumption that "We" have managed to actually "kill" ANY of them?   Has blizzard every been quoted as outright stating that we have actually killed Yogg or C'thun? 
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=29311/herald-volazj
"They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle".

So yeah - the achievements of the raiders so far are "Beat down a crippled Old God and put back its regeneration a while" and "Beat down a weakened Old God and shoved it back into its prison". We didn't even get to see the Old God who was actually behind Cataclym (only his minions, including Deathwing) and everyone in Pandaria is forced to Think Happy Thoughts all the time in case the remains of the only Old God actually killed so far burst up out of the ground and start wrecking shit.

As for the Titans?

WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 23, 2013, 08:38:39 AM


WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET

That one is easy, it's Wrathion saying that we have fallen. This either means the people of azeroth or the dragons specifically and they are probably gonna with with some bullshit that each planet terraforming work by the titans is to raise some new godseed and reproduce.  So the true purpose of most life on the planet is to create a new titan which, in the end is our only hope....or something.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lantyssa on June 24, 2013, 08:37:11 AM
And then they go crush Commander Shepard.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 24, 2013, 10:09:40 AM
And of course we will find out that the titans aren't exactly altruistic and that we need to not only build  a new Titan but use the curse if flesh on it to make the first "human" god, or some bullshit.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on June 24, 2013, 10:17:43 AM
I really want to know what they're going to add for new races now.  Pandas was already a stretch of the lorelol.  Short of some epic retcon that allows ogres, naga, murloc, or some other 'enemy' race, they may actually have to come up with something *gasp* new.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on June 24, 2013, 10:32:34 AM
I really want to know what they're going to add for new races now.  Pandas was already a stretch of the lorelol.  Short of some epic retcon that allows ogres, naga, murloc, or some other 'enemy' race, they may actually have to come up with something *gasp* new.

Ethereals.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 24, 2013, 10:36:08 AM
Bearing in mind that there's already at least one ogre tribe which is part of the Horde (http://www.wowpedia.org/Stonemaul_clan), I'm not quite sure why it would need an 'epic retcon' to add them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on June 24, 2013, 01:24:47 PM
As cool as everyone thinks Naga would be, they will pretty much never be a playable race, since they are pretty much universally evil, and also because blizzard would never give us a playable race without legs.  Troll "shoes" are bad enough, imagine Naga boots?  And what would they do for the ever present racial dance?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 24, 2013, 01:51:28 PM
As cool as everyone thinks Naga would be, they will pretty much never be a playable race, since they are pretty much universally evil, and also because blizzard would never give us a playable race without legs.  Troll "shoes" are bad enough, imagine Naga boots?  And what would they do for the ever present racial dance?

The electric ssssslide


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rendakor on June 24, 2013, 03:03:28 PM
I really want to know what they're going to add for new races now.  Pandas was already a stretch of the lorelol.  Short of some epic retcon that allows ogres, naga, murloc, or some other 'enemy' race, they may actually have to come up with something *gasp* new.

Ethereals.
Probably the only race that would get me to resub. It would actually kinda work too, for the inevitable return to BC expansion.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on June 24, 2013, 03:10:37 PM
I dont see ethreals happening, mainly because of reasons similar to Naga legs.  Or in the case of Ethreals.  Complete lack of an actual face to customize.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 24, 2013, 03:26:30 PM
I've never seen the face of my toon since I created it. All the helms cover it.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ingmar on June 24, 2013, 03:36:01 PM
WoW face customization is basically a joke already anyway. The only features that really stand out are hairstyles and skin colors, and shit like horns for the races who have them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on June 24, 2013, 03:54:53 PM
You could make the bandages have gaps in different areas, change the color of the 'ethereal' glow underneath, etc.

I don't know if that'll ever be a playable race though. With armor on they'll pretty much just look like humans. If they keep the jumpy/fading movement style it'll also be pretty disorienting I'd think.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lantyssa on June 24, 2013, 04:19:12 PM
Armor isn't an issue.  Women will be mostly naked anyways, and undead cuts holes in all their stuff.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Feverdream on June 26, 2013, 11:21:15 PM
After suffering through an expansion of female Pandaren faces - all of which have exactly the same lobotomized expression - ethereals look pretty good to me.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 28, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuOV4Zel-g

 :drill:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 01, 2013, 12:41:52 PM
Quote
* Epic quality (purple) Valor items sold by the Shado-Pan Assault now have their reputation requirements reduced to Friendly or below, and have their Valor Point cost reduced by 34%.
* Epic quality (purple) Valor items sold by all other Mists of Pandaria faction quartermasters no longer have reputation requirements, and will now cost Justice Points instead of Valor.

Oh hey, there might be a reason to run heroics now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on July 01, 2013, 01:04:16 PM
It'll make it easier for me to come back and try out 5.4 at least.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on July 01, 2013, 01:39:28 PM
The other two details:

Quote
Rare quality (blue) items have their Justice Point cost reduced by 75%.
No changes for items that require an Exalted reputation.

Between the VP/rep changes and dirt cheap JP gear, it'll be even easier to reach the gear level required for LFR now. Exalted (cosmetic) items are unaffected.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ragnoros on July 01, 2013, 11:21:40 PM
It is kinda funny watching Blizzard do this same dance every expansion. Making blue items "matter" and hiding the good gear behind infinite cock-blocks for a few months, easing things out a bit after a couple patches, and then just giving the shit out like candy towards the end of the cycle.

Edit: Funny is not quite the right word. Maybe morbidly fascinating? Anyway, while I'm always curious to see what Blizzard has cooking, I can only imagine the current expansion pack cycle will continue, given that no outside source has really added anything to the MMO space for Blizzard to refine. (A sad fact schild has bluntly stated as major motivation for the site revamp.) Sure they can easily coast on WoW revenue and (investor) goodwill for the foreseeable future, but Cryptozoic just scooped them on the TCG refinement front with Hex, SC2 is peanuts compared to LoL, D3 is just getting around to finding the fun over a year in, and they just canceled/delayed their big unannounced thing. I guess I am just musing as to where their ship is headed, if anywhere... Were we talking about Wow? Sorry.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: apocrypha on July 02, 2013, 01:00:21 AM
It is kinda funny watching Blizzard do this same dance every expansion. Making blue items "matter" and hiding the good gear behind infinite cock-blocks for a few months, easing things out a bit after a couple patches, and then just giving the shit out like candy towards the end of the cycle.

Why is it so funny/fascinating? That's their model. That's how it works every expansion, it's not accidental, it's not purely reactive, it's The Plan.

Seems to be working too, it means the more determined players get shinies earlier than the less determined players, but over the duration of the expansion everyone ends up getting something nice.

It if ain't broke...


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 02, 2013, 03:01:48 AM
It is kinda funny watching Blizzard do this same dance every expansion. Making blue items "matter" and hiding the good gear behind infinite cock-blocks for a few months, easing things out a bit after a couple patches, and then just giving the shit out like candy towards the end of the cycle.

Why is it so funny/fascinating? That's their model. That's how it works every expansion, it's not accidental, it's not purely reactive, it's The Plan.

Seems to be working too, it means the more determined players get shinies earlier than the less determined players, but over the duration of the expansion everyone ends up getting something nice.

It if ain't broke...
They also sort of have to do it, with the way iLevel gaps occur between expantions.  I mean, if you had a fresh 85, who had never set foot in a raid, and took them to Pandaria, the basic quest mobs in the stater area were fucking dangerous in groups of 2 for most people, simply because they were scaled based on the expectation that most people doing the quests would have an iLevel at least partially scaled towards the latter end of the Cata gear curve.  If they make it stupidly hard to play catchup in some form or another in a Tiered system, you end up with strange things happening in regards to fresh players entering the scene.  Especially when new tiers tend to quite largely completely obsolete the need to do old tiers.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on July 02, 2013, 06:20:57 AM
It if ain't broke...

That's a debatable point at this juncture. They've had to do more than just loosen the hold on gear and gating. In recent xpacs, they've had to add major quality of life components to the deal in later patches, usually to respond to the fact that subs dropped faster than planned.

If they continue to try that as "The Plan" for another xpac, they will find themselves with half the subs they had a year ago. I don't think they will, though. The delays of Titan and other projects have forced Blizzard to actually pay attention to their cash cow.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 02, 2013, 06:46:46 AM
It is kinda funny watching Blizzard do this same dance every expansion. Making blue items "matter" and hiding the good gear behind infinite cock-blocks for a few months, easing things out a bit after a couple patches, and then just giving the shit out like candy towards the end of the cycle.

Why is it so funny/fascinating? That's their model. That's how it works every expansion, it's not accidental, it's not purely reactive, it's The Plan.

Seems to be working too, it means the more determined players get shinies earlier than the less determined players, but over the duration of the expansion everyone ends up getting something nice.

It if ain't broke...
They also sort of have to do it, with the way iLevel gaps occur between expantions.  I mean, if you had a fresh 85, who had never set foot in a raid, and took them to Pandaria, the basic quest mobs in the stater area were fucking dangerous in groups of 2 for most people, simply because they were scaled based on the expectation that most people doing the quests would have an iLevel at least partially scaled towards the latter end of the Cata gear curve.  If they make it stupidly hard to play catchup in some form or another in a Tiered system, you end up with strange things happening in regards to fresh players entering the scene.  Especially when new tiers tend to quite largely completely obsolete the need to do old tiers.

Not true at all. Fresh 85's can easily do the first few quests in pandaria, the difficulty level on the mobs doesn't ramp up all that fast.  It's also no coincidence that the very first quest in pandaria yields a weapon either.

The purples falling off trees mechanic is not so much for the next expansion as it is for people to catch up to the current patches content.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ragnoros on July 02, 2013, 10:02:44 AM
It is kinda funny watching Blizzard do this same dance every expansion. Making blue items "matter" and hiding the good gear behind infinite cock-blocks for a few months, easing things out a bit after a couple patches, and then just giving the shit out like candy towards the end of the cycle.

Why is it so funny/fascinating? That's their model. That's how it works every expansion, it's not accidental, it's not purely reactive, it's The Plan.

Seems to be working too, it means the more determined players get shinies earlier than the less determined players, but over the duration of the expansion everyone ends up getting something nice.

It if ain't broke...

I realize it's The Plan. But I still find it funny watching people bitching about raids, faction grinding, gear, and what have you every expansion, Blizzard then fixing/nerfing it all, so people go "Yay, Blizzard listened to us!", and then we repeat the exact procedure over again each expansion. As Paelos said, they might not be able to get away with it for another four expansions if they hope to keep subs up.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 02, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
I would say they very much aren't getting away with it but the problem is the machine is too big now. They can't fundamentally change how anythng works, all they can do is add even more raid difficulties or challenge modes in hopes it will hold peoples interest. They still think more daily hubs = content so it's not likely that anything is changing until the next game comes along.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 12, 2013, 10:42:19 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10428013/New_Stuff_Coming_to_the_Pet_Store_-7_12_2013


So, why are we paying a monthly sub again?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 12, 2013, 11:43:13 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10428013/New_Stuff_Coming_to_the_Pet_Store_-7_12_2013


So, why are we paying a monthly sub again?
Adding new purely cosmetic stuff to a store that sells purely cosmetic stuff is suddenly going to change something?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 13, 2013, 02:53:05 AM
(http://i.minus.com/ibcaSPO5z9dBGk.jpg)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 13, 2013, 05:43:56 AM
Wow stopped being about stats and started being about cosmetics a long time ago.  I'm not saying it's the end of the world but once you have a cash shop in full force like this you do have to wonder what value you are getting for a subscription when compared to any other comparable mmo out there right now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rendakor on July 13, 2013, 08:11:11 AM
Uh, what?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 13, 2013, 05:39:55 PM
"A long time ago" is exaggeration on my part, this is mostly the advent of LFR.  Right now however you don't need top end gear to see content, you don't need top end gear in wow for anything but the harder modes which, by and large, people don't do.  It's turned into more of a transmogrify based drive towards items these days since getting into LFR is easy and going past LFR is kind of pointless.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 19, 2013, 03:05:23 AM
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3312-Patch-5-4-Timeless-Isle-Patch-5-5-SoO-Raid-Testing-5-4-Notes-Update-Blue-Posts
From the patch notes -
Quote
New Area: Timeless Isle

    A mysterious island, lost for millennia to the currents of time, has emerged from the mists off the eastern coast of Jade Forest.
    Players seeking to explore the Timeless Isle should check their mailboxes, where a Curious Ticking Parcel awaits. Unwrapping it will set you on the first step of your new adventure.
    The Timeless Isle is inhabited by all manner of strange and powerful creatures that will test the mettle of solo explorers, but great rewards await the brave and skillful: epic loot, bind-to-account gear, Mogu Runes of Fate, pets, mounts, fun toys, and much more.
    The Isle is filled with secrets and mysteries, many of which dynamically become available to explorers. Keep an eye on your minimap while on the Isle for information on nearby events!
    The Timeless Isle is home to five new world raid bosses! Players may face each of the four Celestials in a trial of combat.
    Heroes who have earned the legendary cloak from Wrathion may access the sanctum of the fiery Yaungol demigod Ordos, atop the Timeless Isle.

From MMO-Champion:
Quote
Patch 5.4 - Timeless Isle
The Timeless Isle was opened today and we took a quick look around tonight:

    You will receive an item in the mail that will teleport you to the Isle, allowing you to learn the flightpath there.
    Next there is a one time quest that sends you all over the Isle to explore it, before heading back to the Celestial Court in the center.
    The Celestial Court has the four Aspects world bosses in the center, with many of the NPCs from Mists of Pandaria around the outside.
    You can purchase the new aspect pets here for 3 x Celestial Coin, which are a reward of the tournament that requires 30 level 25 pets to enter.
    There are no flying mounts on the isle!
    Most NPCs, objects, and gathering nodes scattered around the isle drop Timeless Coins, as well as the pet battle and lore daily quests.
    Timeless Coins are used to purchase Timeless Caches for 7500 x Timeless Coin, which reward item level 496 gear, similar to Battlefield: Barrens. You can also buy Mogu Runes for 2500 x Timeless Coin.
    You can also buy Kukuru's Cache Key for 500 x Timeless Coin, which will open any chest in Master Kukuru's cave. These chests contain Timeless Coins and other minor loot.
    There is a Pouch of Timeless Coins that costs 500 Valor Points as well, presumably rewarding you with even more Timeless Coins.

Currently on Test the timeless coins drop like rain in a monsoon, but how much of that is "It's Test" and how much is intended remains to be seen. Oh, and the 496 catch-up epics are apparently bind to account, not BoP.  Whatever happened to "No escalators to Everest", I wonder?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on July 19, 2013, 03:55:52 AM
I imagine they'll justify it with a ridiculous unfun grind to get them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on July 19, 2013, 05:06:14 AM
Since one cache costs 7,500 coins, you'd be right. 

Even if 'dropping like rain in a monsoon' = 300 coins per drop that's 25 drops per attempt (chest).

Since the chest loot is randomized, let's say you're looking at an average of 40 chests to get your full set and that's 1,000 nodes. Even if it's only 30 chests that's 750 nodes.




Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 19, 2013, 12:48:03 PM
At this point Blizzard could make epics rain from the virtual skies and people would bitch about the terrible grind of being forced to walk around to pick them up.



Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 19, 2013, 11:32:16 PM
At this point Blizzard could make epics rain from the virtual skies and people would bitch about the terrible grind of being forced to walk around to pick them up.


Reminds me of the comment someon made on the official forums that even if Blizzard were to literally hand people 1000 dollars there would be a 99% chance that someone would complain that it was all in 20s.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 20, 2013, 05:21:39 AM
At this point Blizzard could make epics rain from the virtual skies and people would bitch about the terrible grind of being forced to walk around to pick them up.



A more apt analogy would be putting a $100 bill in a pile of cat litter.  Sure it's not too hard to wipe off...but still.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 20, 2013, 10:00:34 AM
If you've reached the point where playing the game is analogues to rummaging around in a litter-tray, you should probably quit.
You know, just as an FYI.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 20, 2013, 10:58:17 AM
It's fun to white knight things.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 20, 2013, 04:32:03 PM
Oh dear, is that the best you've got?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on July 21, 2013, 08:21:40 PM
I did quit, quite some time ago actually. They should bring back the heroic loot fountains. And make it hand-itemized loot instead of the random property stuff because I guarantee that was done to make the loot seem more like "stuff for scrubs".

You should literally be able to hit cap, get a few buddies, run heroics, and be final NORMAL raid ready in a day without ever running a daily.

Basically make it like the dreaded days of WOTLK, which was fun where none of Cata was and everything past the leveling experience of Pandaria wasn't.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on July 21, 2013, 08:55:54 PM
I have no problem with anything you just said, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 22, 2013, 10:38:27 AM
I did quit, quite some time ago actually. They should bring back the heroic loot fountains. And make it hand-itemized loot instead of the random property stuff because I guarantee that was done to make the loot seem more like "stuff for scrubs".

You should literally be able to hit cap, get a few buddies, run heroics, and be final NORMAL raid ready in a day without ever running a daily.

Basically make it like the dreaded days of WOTLK, which was fun where none of Cata was and everything past the leveling experience of Pandaria wasn't.
Quote
* Epic quality (purple) Valor items sold by the Shado-Pan Assault now have their reputation requirements reduced to Friendly or below, and have their Valor Point cost reduced by 34%.
* Epic quality (purple) Valor items sold by all other Mists of Pandaria faction quartermasters no longer have reputation requirements, and will now cost Justice Points instead of Valor.

Oh hey, there might be a reason to run heroics now.

I bolded it this time.  :grin:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 10:58:25 AM
Ok what's the lvl on those items? Do you still have to do LFR of all the previous crap to open the new crap?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 22, 2013, 11:01:07 AM
With the amount of time it would take to get the justice points to buy them, you could already get past those ilvls by doing dailies.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on July 22, 2013, 12:03:45 PM
Ok what's the lvl on those items? Do you still have to do LFR of all the previous crap to open the new crap?
Ilvl 489 to 496 (http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=minle=450;maxle=496;cr=158;crs=396;crv=0) for the factionless stuff, 522 for the Shado-Pan v2 stuff.

With the amount of time it would take to get the justice points to buy them, you could already get past those ilvls by doing dailies.
100jp/boss in heroics so 3-4 runs per item on average.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 22, 2013, 12:18:27 PM
And getting to 480 then starting the LFR chain is still much faster and a better use of time than grinding heroics.  You will get maybe one/two pieces of rep gear before you start out levelling it.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 03:41:52 PM
What's the current LFR level requirement going to be for the 5.4 stuff? Have they announced that?

What's the current one now for the top level of LFR?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 23, 2013, 03:29:48 AM
What's the current LFR level requirement going to be for the 5.4 stuff? Have they announced that?

What's the current one now for the top level of LFR?
If they hadnt taken the servers offline approximately 10 min ago, i could tell you :/  Just dinged my DK to fresh 90 like 10 minutes before weekly downtime.   I figure that if i do the quests to unlock the Isle of Thunder (all the solo scenarios), buy a few pieces of gear off the vendors there, I should be able to ding into first round LFR within about an hour or two.   Not 100% sure, but I think i recall them saying LFR Seige of Orgrimmar would be an entry level of around 490 to 500 ish ilevel (ie, you should easily qualify if you are in Mostly LFR gear from previous tier + the 522 pieces you can get for cheap from the Shadow Pan assault guys simply for getting friendly.)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 24, 2013, 01:44:59 AM
So, currently, the iLevel entry requirements are:
460 for LFR Vaults
470 for LFR HoF / Terrace
480 for LFR ToT / Heroic Scenarios

which leads me to believe that LFR Seige will be 490

I can immediately enter Heroic Dungeons with my 438 ilevel i had from random questing out about 1/3 of Dreadwastes + 1/3 of Townlong Steppes before i dinged 90.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 24, 2013, 10:41:07 PM
Boo, appearantly my estimate on how quickly i could get into LFR was a bit on the lenient side (by a lot, lol).  Fully quested out the unlocking of the Isle of Thunderm and unlocked the Battlefield Barrens stuff, which got me a nice new pair of ilevel 502 boots and a 476 shoulders from a Scenario reward bag, but that still leaves me with about a 20 Ilevel gap to make up.  And since I forgot that ALL the Shadowpan Assault stuff requires valor, I wont be able to grab the ilevel 522 neck for about a week.

Almost Justice Point capped (have not done any normal Heroics Yet), and cant decide if i want to just sit on the character till next patch rolls out or not.  Current JP gear is still iL458, and while i could dump JP into Honor and buy honor gear, the conversion rate still prob wouldnt let me get enough iLevel to immediately jump into first wing LFR.  Also, when next patch hits, a lot of the initial Valor gear is going to get bumped down to the Justice point vendor, which means I could prob deck the toon out in a good number of 486 pieces with my JP and then go directly into LFRs.

Since I mainly leveled the character to 90 to for Blacksmithing profession, and I have like 3 other characters I would much rather spend my time messing aroudn on, I think i will just sit on it for now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 25, 2013, 08:22:13 AM
Scenario's are the quickest way to bump your ilvl up since some of the rewards can be very nice. Also make sure you are buying a full set of level 90 pvp gear to start your base ilvl off higher.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 25, 2013, 08:23:20 AM
I played again last month to catch up and see what changed, got a warrior to 90 and was doing LFR the next reset after hitting 90 so in 2 cycles it's doable.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on July 26, 2013, 01:42:46 AM
Yeah.  I realise that if i actually played the character i could be LFR ready pretty much a day after the week reset, what with buying some PVP gear, doing a few heroics for the heroic stuff, but in all honesty, I dont really intend to play it much at the moment, with other characters to focus on.  I also have enough rep-tokens in the bank from other characters that I could easily power my rep with Sunreavers on the island up to probably honored or even revered for even more gear.  But as I said, I will prob just wait for the next patch to drop and bust out Justice points on Ilevel 286 stuff.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on August 15, 2013, 10:04:22 AM
Trailer for 5.4 is up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=slzQOyS5TqQ


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on August 15, 2013, 10:37:38 AM
Garrosh is a dick but at least he's an uncorrupted dick. Which is what matters.


Apparently.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Setanta on August 16, 2013, 03:19:57 PM
That clip looked interesting. It almost got me to re-sub to check it out. *If* it was all doable as non-raid content with no need to update gear, I'd be on it like a flash (I've hated Garrosh since I heard him whining in outlands). If they did it as world bosses aka GW2 I'd be there in a flash - then reality hit :(

I still might re-sub log to see the world changes.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 16, 2013, 05:19:27 PM
Yes, I am sure they will fundamentally change a decade old game because of this new patch.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on September 02, 2013, 12:48:33 PM
Pics from the first half of Siege of Orgrimmar: http://imgur.com/a/UJPVY


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on September 11, 2013, 08:06:25 AM
So I've got a Panda Rogue that hit 89 on patch day.  Hoping to get him leveled up this week and see how OP it is to gear up on the new Timeless Isle.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 11, 2013, 08:10:10 AM
I was on for about 30 minutes on Timeless Isle and got one piece of 496 gear, plus 3 other caches for other classes. If you have other 90s this works out well since they are BoA, but that also means you could spend some time there and not get anything for your class. I think the gear drops are going to be frequent enough that there is no reason to go anywhere else to gear up.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on September 11, 2013, 08:58:27 AM
Gear drops like candy on the new island. Every rare spawn drops one piece. Chests usually give 1-2. Both are shared so multiple players can loot either. I played on the island for about an hour last night and walked away with 12 pieces of BoA gear to send to alts (only one of which is at 90 and can use any, yay).

The island is pretty fun. Lot's of stuff to do/discover, wouldn't mind seeing more content like this in the future.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on September 11, 2013, 09:40:58 AM
I haven't read up, but last night I did notice the minimap pointing things out to me. One was a chest, that I could only get to by a (simple) jumping puzzle. The other was a rare mob that ended up being a group kill.

I wonder if this is Blizzard doing some (rudimentary) copying of GW2 style group quests and jumping puzzles?

Anyway, I snagged about 5 pieces of armor, all of which was mail armor since I was doing this on my hunter. So, I could usefully share those pieces with my shaman alt. I'm wondering what will happen when I send my cloth-wearing alt(s) to the TI.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Zetor on September 11, 2013, 11:00:38 AM
The Proving Grounds (healer version) has to be the most accurate depiction of a PUG ever. Well, except for the names and the fact that the 'party members' communicate in full sentences. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on September 12, 2013, 02:46:50 AM
Garrosh went down overnight for both a Horde guild and an Alliance guild.  This is important because they apparently made two separate ending cinematics, and your view depends on your side.



Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on September 12, 2013, 03:05:33 AM
I haven't read up, but last night I did notice the minimap pointing things out to me. One was a chest, that I could only get to by a (simple) jumping puzzle. The other was a rare mob that ended up being a group kill.

I wonder if this is Blizzard doing some (rudimentary) copying of GW2 style group quests and jumping puzzles?

Anyway, I snagged about 5 pieces of armor, all of which was mail armor since I was doing this on my hunter. So, I could usefully share those pieces with my shaman alt. I'm wondering what will happen when I send my cloth-wearing alt(s) to the TI.
From what I can tell, the armor tokens are random.   I took my shaman there long enough to get her her legendary cloak, and then took my warlock in for a grand tour of the place.  Between the two of them, i spent about 4 hours on the island, and came away with something like 20-25 random armor tokens for all Armor types / slots.  

The tokens drop like candy, especially if you run around trying to kill all the rares whenever they spawn, and try to hit up the large chests.   I think i have a nearly complete set of mail tokens for my hunter, and he cant even use them (still 87).


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 12, 2013, 05:10:59 AM
Garrosh went down overnight for both a Horde guild and an Alliance guild.  This is important because they apparently made two separate ending cinematics, and your view depends on your side.

Lol, and according to Blizz this is supposed to be the expansion ending on an up note for the Alliance.

Ogrimmar won't really change, the lame-ass warchief everyone hated is out and one of the lore characters everyone really liked is in, and after an expansion of renewed horde/alliance hostilities lead off with the bombing of Theramore (and whether the Horde wants to admit it or not capped off with a Horde member completely befouling and destroying a whole section of Pandaria that was considered sacred) the Alliance helps depose the warchief no one liked, then politely hands their capital back with no concessions because he's ~learned things~.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 12, 2013, 05:34:40 AM
Jaina realls IS crazy cause honestly wouldn't Varian's chances of walking out of that room alive should he start shit be about 50/50?  Thrall is the avatar or some shit now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 12, 2013, 06:36:41 AM
Jaina realls IS crazy cause honestly wouldn't Varian's chances of walking out of that room alive should he start shit be about 50/50?  Thrall is the avatar or some shit now.
Well, I think Jaina is like the most powerful living human mage at this point? Not sure; I know Rhonin got mary-sued out the ass in some book or another I didn't read because I don't read the books.

Also I can't recall since it's more book/comic horseshit but I think Varian is likely tougher than Baine/Vol'jin and probably Thrall at this point too. He has some stupid warrior spirit/god thing in him I think where he can basically go super-sayajin.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 12, 2013, 07:48:56 AM
Yeah all wow lore is pretty  :facepalm:  at this point but I just meant the whole idea that "omg horde is weak!" doesn't apply when you are locked in a tiny room with their best fighters.  It's just bad writing because while "the horde" as a whole would be weakened militarily that means jack and shit when it's a stand up fight then and now. 


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 12, 2013, 08:44:46 AM
Thrall is at power-level "DRAGON" but what that means after losing all immortality and such in Cata we have no idea.

Vol'Jin and Baine are shadows of their predecessors, probably closer to Pre-Lich Bolvar in ifighting prowess than Varian, Jaina or Thrall.

Jaina realls IS crazy cause honestly wouldn't Varian's chances of walking out of that room alive should he start shit be about 50/50?  Thrall is the avatar or some shit now.

Jaina is being corrupted by old gods so we can kill her next X-pac to 'even out' the balance since we killed a Horde leader this one. Mark my words.

At this point I don't even know why I'm reading or responding to any of this.  I haven't played since "instance patch 2" with the forces landing.. 5.2 I guess?  They lost me as a customer.

Loot dropping like candy? OMG Bliz learned their lesson.. oh wait, no. It's the end of an X-pac, loot doesn't matter and we'll see the announcement of the next expansion in November where loot resets again and the same BS of "You have to earn it.  Working for this MATTERS." will return.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 12, 2013, 08:47:58 AM
Yep at this point it's become just another formula for Blizzard to unleash the loot after a year in expansion. Which is still stupid.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 12, 2013, 10:26:35 AM
Nah, Thrall will talk the crazy lady down in a "shocking" reversal of roles where Jaina was half in love with Thrall and spent most of her time trying to straighten him out and mediate between the horde/alliance.

Oh, and Sylvanas will continue to kinda do whatever she wants.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on September 12, 2013, 10:50:02 AM
That's because Sylvanas is the best leader, natch.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ginaz on September 12, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
So I've got a Panda Rogue that hit 89 on patch day.  Hoping to get him leveled up this week and see how OP it is to gear up on the new Timeless Isle.

My panda monk is 90 and was wearing all greens and a few normal dungeon blues.  I was able to take him from ilvl 420 to 440 in 30 mins.  I decided to stop once my inventory was full of boa stuff I couldn't use.  It was the same thing for my hunter.  There's no real reason to do heroic dungeons now unless you are looking for one of the epic weapons or for valor points.  An hour or so on the island should give a fresh 90 enough gear to at least start doing lfr.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 13, 2013, 03:40:18 AM
WoW's revenue dropped 54% (5.4, 54%...ha!) in 7 months. (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microtransactions-world-of-warcraft-revenues-mmorpg-in-game-store,24236.html)

Well, ouch.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on September 13, 2013, 04:40:53 AM
Lies, Journalism, and Statistics.

Alternate headline: WoW makes 54% more when selling expansion boxes than they do in an otherwise "ordinary" month.

Sept 2012 is when Pandaria launched, so WoW revenues that month (and in the months from there to December) included box sales.

Here is the source article. (http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/wow-microtransactions/) Scroll down to the graph. The orange line is WoW revenues. You can see that revenues flattened out from January to April 2013.

It's too bad they didn't include WoW's revenue from August 2012. I wonder why?



Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2013, 05:29:54 AM
Blizzard is prepping folks for additional microtrans, which is fine.  They're leaving a ton of money on the table, but it's still a question of how many will jump ship if it's implemented vs. how many will stick around/ rejoin and expand spending. 

A lot of their most vocal userbase is vehemently against anything of the sort, and Blizz has that history of "We will never do this beyond cosmetics" statements.  It'll be seen as a really big betrayal and cause a lot of fevrent internet warrioring when it happens, even if the sub base dropped to a single million.

With so much at stake right now, it's understandable why they're taking a long, long strategy for prep.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 13, 2013, 07:45:48 AM
Do you really think that many people will drop their sub because they feel betrayed that Blizzard implemented XP boost potions? Does Blizzard think that? Maybe that is true but I think the vocal userbase is either just vocal and won't cancel, or too small of a minority to make much of a dent.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 13, 2013, 07:56:04 AM
Do you really think that many people will drop their sub because they feel betrayed that Blizzard implemented XP boost potions?

No, they won't. They'll get pissed and drop their sub if they start selling gear or gambling boxes though. I think there's a very bright red line in microtrans that's involved when selling gear.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2013, 09:20:28 AM
Do you really think that many people will drop their sub because they feel betrayed that Blizzard implemented XP boost potions? Does Blizzard think that? Maybe that is true but I think the vocal userbase is either just vocal and won't cancel, or too small of a minority to make much of a dent.

*I* don't believe it, but the way Blizzard couched the XP potions and won't just convert right now says they do. Plus the forum-warrioring surrounding any discussion of it (on multiple sites/ locations) indicates they'll at least threaten to, even if they don't ultimately cancel.

In addition, the current meme among the gaming populace is "when games go free they turn to shit."  I've seen this in STO, LOTR, TOR, and TSW chats. "Man this game was great when it wasn't free.  Now it sucks."  Which is demonstrably not true for each of those, but the sentiment is there.  Plus you're seeing "I'm glad this isn't free" surrounding ESO.

While it makes better business sense to do F2P with microtrans right now, there's a blow-back brewing in addition to a segment of gamers who simply hate the model and wish some games had a sub to keep the rabble out. (Locally, Nebu has said before he's among them.)  They've got a point.  You can ban someone enough times they run out of credit cards to use, but there's always another e-mail account 30 seconds away.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 13, 2013, 09:24:55 AM
If Blizzard is listening to that group then they haven't learned anything. They listened to them when they cried about how WoTLK was too easy and we see how that turned out.

I don't think they are going to be going FTP anytime soon. They will end up doing limited micro-transactions and requiring a sub.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2013, 09:30:51 AM
If Blizzard is listening to that group then they haven't learned anything. They listened to them when they cried about how WoTLK was too easy and we see how that turned out.

I don't think they are going to be going FTP anytime soon. They will end up doing limited micro-transactions and requiring a sub.

What in the past 3 years makes you think they've learned their lesson? Nothing I've seen, certainly. Not from WoW, SC2 or Diablo-land.

Microtrans shop is even in question because of the crying about the XP potion.  We'll see it in Asia before the US/ Europe, if we ever see it in those regions.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 13, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
Speeding up leveling isn't going to make mass numbers quit. That doesn't ruin the game in any way at the top end. They have to keep their RMT away from anything that affects direct gear end-game, and they will be fine.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2013, 10:35:25 AM
Uh,  I'm not saying it would.

What I'm saying is the mere fact the item showed up caused enough crying from the US/ Euro players that Blizzard went out of their way - multiple times - to say "Oh hey, hey. This is only exploring things for Asia. Be cool.  It's ok, guys."  Fact, not speculation, not prediction.  It doesn't matter that it doesn't ruin the game or anyone's experience at the endgame. The notion that someone could speed-up the already inconsequential process of hitting 90 by spending some cash caused enough player rage that Blizzard goes in to 'calm the beast' mode whenever anything about it is discussed.

They're still listening to that group of idiots on something as minor and stupid as an XP potion. They're not going anywhere near bigger stuff more than a snails pace, even if it's inevitable. They're also going to make sure they're prepping the masses for it well, well in advance now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 13, 2013, 10:53:32 AM
I was agreeing with you. However, slow or not, money talks and BS whiners don't actually walk.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on September 13, 2013, 12:10:19 PM
Depending on the cost and the amount of XP boosts, I would actually resub for the first time since WOTLK. I always love speed leveling. Have they said what the boost will be? (assuming it's really a thing)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 13, 2013, 12:48:26 PM
The item said 100% boost for 1 hour. I'm not sure it has made it past the testing phase and was apparently only available in Asia.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 13, 2013, 12:58:23 PM
The whiniest of the hardcore said they'd quit Wrath because it was so "easy", they didn't. They said they'd quit if they nerfed the heroics in Cata, they didn't. They said they're quit if they nerfed raids in Cata, they didn't. They said they'd quit if they turned the loot fountain back on at the end of Cata, they didn't. They said they'd quit if LFR gear eventually outpaced even the lowest tier of normal/heroic raid gear, they didn't.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on September 13, 2013, 01:06:49 PM
I quit in WOTLK because the game become a boring string of hallways with loot at the end and no fun. It was fun for a week or two, then it got boring and retarded. I might of stayed longer if they had LFR.

These days the combat is stale and the classes are boring to me. Especially with the new talents and stuff. I just can't really do hotbar/tab target combat anymore I guess.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2013, 01:16:05 PM
It's not hotbar/ tab-target problem to me.  You have that in every game with hitpoints.  I'm not bored with The Secret World.  People are still enjoying GW2.  Even NWN feels more fresh than WoW.

For me, with WoW, it's the homogenization of classes.  Each one feels too similar to another. "This is my rotation priority. This is my interrupt.  This is my "oh shit" card.  This is my "every 5 mins" DPS cooldown.  I do them at range as a h/m/w/pr, or up close as a r/w/pa/dk or some variant as a shaman."

Meh.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Nevermore on September 13, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
It's not hotbar/ tab-target problem to me.  You have that in every game with hitpoints.  I'm not bored with The Secret World.  People are still enjoying GW2.  Even NWN feels more fresh than WoW.

For me, with WoW, it's the homogenization of classes.  Each one feels too similar to another. "This is my rotation priority. This is my interrupt.  This is my "oh shit" card.  This is my "every 5 mins" DPS cooldown.  I do them at range as a h/m/w/pr, or up close as a r/w/pa/dk or some variant as a shaman."

Meh.

But..  but...  what about all those 'interesting choices'?!?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 13, 2013, 01:27:30 PM
The problem for me is that I just want to log in, see the content, and have fun. I don't take anything too seriously. I actually enjoy running dungeons. Even repeatedly. Since I don't necessarily have my rotation down perfectly (especially for a class I don't play often) dungeon running isn't so great. I swear to Christ if one of these fucks ever gets pissed at me for my low DPS but we haven't wiped, I'm going to lose it.

I think they really nailed it with the leveling content this time around. Unfortunately I do not want to do it again after seeing it once. This doesn't leave much for a 'casual' like me besides LFD and LFR. Having to worry about how much DPS I am doing does not make it fun for me anymore. I would guess a lot of people who are like me (which probably made up most of the lost subscribers) have a lot of the same frustrations. Not sure how they fix that.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on September 13, 2013, 03:45:14 PM
Hahaha, free tip: If anyone gives you shit about DPS in LFD or LFR they are insufferable pillocks and can be safely ignored. I mean I've seen people doing less damage in LFR than just using autoattack would do (no, really) and no fucks were given. The only time people start bitching about DPS are a) epeen contests from morons with recount (ignore) or b) wipes which, in most cases, means someone else screwed up so again ignore.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 13, 2013, 05:27:37 PM
Oh I know they are idiots. It is just bothersome because I waited in queue for 10 minutes for this garbage? Then if I bail, I get the deserter debuff and then wait another 10 minutes to get in again. With the limited time I have, a lot of times it isn't worth it. That's why I think xp potions would be huge for people like me who just want to do the content and play with some friends along the way. The exact people who are giving me shit about my DPS are the ones who complain about how the casuals ruined the game and would threaten to quit over it. Blizzard just needs to get a clue and stop listening to them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 14, 2013, 09:56:16 AM
So I'm playing the free trial and man, FUCK that pvp item that turns you into a disciple of ordos(sp).  Essentially it turns you into an npc capable of being attacked by players which is nice and all but one of my abilities will invariably jump from the boss I am trying to kill onto some douche who is flagged which will then flag me and I'll be dead before I realize what happened.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Zetor on September 14, 2013, 01:39:06 PM
So... is there anything to this island other than getting drops for alts? It's not very fun to play hide-and-seek on a pvp server, even if the enemy faction mostly stays put during boss kills... and the entire zergy boss fight thing is just a weaker version of what I can get in GW2 (or even RIFT) right now. Ditto for the jumping puzzle chests.

OTOH, the proving grounds are sorta amusing, especially the healer version... though one of the hotfixes managed to break some of the "party NPC" AI and removed their ability to AOE, which makes endless mode quite a bit harder.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on September 14, 2013, 02:55:54 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/news=219459/wowheads-guide-to-the-timeless-isle


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Zetor on September 14, 2013, 10:17:53 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/news=219459/wowheads-guide-to-the-timeless-isle
A simple 'no' would've sufficed  :awesome_for_real:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this zone is trying really hard to emulate GW2 in several aspects -- but I'm already playing (and enjoying) GW2! Also, playing on a WOW pvp server sucks, film at 11.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 15, 2013, 08:42:15 AM
The cross-server zones thing is the funniest thing they've added to the game in years.

Forever after BC dropped and Tarren Mill raids became a thing of the past I wanted to maybe join another guild; like a goon guild or the hardcore raider guilds a few of my other online friends were in. Of course, they were all on PVP servers and I think PVP is boring/annoying so I always ended up saying no. The #1 thing I heard from literally all of these people:

"Oh nah man, there's no real world PVP anymore, it's just like a PVE server. You won't really ever get ganked except maybe in some specific areas where people like to farm end-game mats."

Well, cross-server zones have made it on some server groups where you can't level 1-85 without getting ganked consistently, or in a lot of people's cases, completely shut out of zones. Lots of QQing, so to speak, is coming from these same people who scoffed at 'carebears' because they got the kind of world PVP actual PVPers expect.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on September 15, 2013, 09:18:31 AM
It's not hotbar/ tab-target problem to me.  You have that in every game with hitpoints.  I'm not bored with The Secret World.  People are still enjoying GW2.  Even NWN feels more fresh than WoW.

For me, with WoW, it's the homogenization of classes.  Each one feels too similar to another. "This is my rotation priority. This is my interrupt.  This is my "oh shit" card.  This is my "every 5 mins" DPS cooldown.  I do them at range as a h/m/w/pr, or up close as a r/w/pa/dk or some variant as a shaman."

Meh.

I consider games like Wildstar and GW2 to have different combat to me.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: craan on September 16, 2013, 06:06:07 AM
The cross-server zones thing is the funniest thing they've added to the game in years.

Forever after BC dropped and Tarren Mill raids became a thing of the past I wanted to maybe join another guild; like a goon guild or the hardcore raider guilds a few of my other online friends were in. Of course, they were all on PVP servers and I think PVP is boring/annoying so I always ended up saying no. The #1 thing I heard from literally all of these people:

"Oh nah man, there's no real world PVP anymore, it's just like a PVE server. You won't really ever get ganked except maybe in some specific areas where people like to farm end-game mats."

Well, cross-server zones have made it on some server groups where you can't level 1-85 without getting ganked consistently, or in a lot of people's cases, completely shut out of zones. Lots of QQing, so to speak, is coming from these same people who scoffed at 'carebears' because they got the kind of world PVP actual PVPers expect.

I played on Barthilas for a little while and leveled to 80 without seeing a bit of world PVP.  But when I went to Hyjal a massive group of Alliance from 3? different servers had the beginning quest area locked down.  My toon was feral so I could sneak around but it didn't help.  The amount of Alliance (About 30) and the length of time they stayed made going to Vash enjoyable.

I went to Illidan and was ganked maybe once every level, usually by a 90 flying by or something.  It wasn't until I got to the Blasted Lands quests that I got stomped every other minute.  But as Horde we seemed to have people that just chilled in the zone helping lowbies like myself and I guess camping the portal to Outlands.  So while there were more interruptions at least I had the (small) satisfaction that other people were getting revenge for me.

I didn't have a problem at 80 in Hyjal like I did on Barthlias.  The next set of problems started when I got to Pandaria.  Doing the quests from 85-90 I would be constantly ganked by 90 rogues.  And followed by them as I did quests and ganked again.  I felt like I was a node to be farmed and they had a loop they were doing hitting all the questline areas looking for levelers.  Every few minutes *dead* by a rogue and they'd vanish.  To be fair, we had a lot of Horde players that would go out of their way to try and help us levelers but the stealth gankers would just stealth and that was that.  Then a few minutes later *dead*.

I never again saw a huge mass of cross-realm people like I did on Barthilas, though.  And not much world pvp interest in any of the guilds I was in.  it was always RBGs or Arenas, all day every day.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Maledict on September 16, 2013, 11:49:08 AM
The whiniest of the hardcore said they'd quit Wrath because it was so "easy", they didn't. They said they'd quit if they nerfed the heroics in Cata, they didn't. They said they're quit if they nerfed raids in Cata, they didn't. They said they'd quit if they turned the loot fountain back on at the end of Cata, they didn't. They said they'd quit if LFR gear eventually outpaced even the lowest tier of normal/heroic raid gear, they didn't.

The players who quit weren't the hardcore. They were players like me - the middle tier of raiding. Which from what I can see and from what I'm told basically no longer exists in WoW - the gap between casual and hardcore is wider than it ever was. Guilds seem to constantly form, raid then collapse like some form of primeval soup whic bubbles up every so often.

The hardcore will always raid and devour content in days - its what they do.

Casuals will consume content slowly - its what they do.

But the middle rank, the people who enjoy playing a game that pushes them but aren't willing to sacrifice life and family to do it - they seem to have totally vanished now. If you get half way through a zones heroic mode every time, and then get to see everything made pointless by the next tier? Well, whose going to stick around for that experience all the time?

EDIT: Oh, and heroic modes in generally utterly and truly suck if you aren't a hardcore player. Hardcore players don't care about the zone like a more casual player does - they want the challenge and the race and the satisfaction of winning. But for a slower guild that actually has to work through normal mode, and then work through heroic mode on a slower schedule - Heroics really are utter dross. I thought they were a brilliant idea when released and have done a complete 180 now. They are an incredibly lazy, shit means of design.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on September 16, 2013, 12:49:23 PM
I don't have the time these days to raid, but I look fondly back on my days as a middle tier raider.

The one thing I really disliked was WOW's trend towards having different difficulty settings. You went from one dungeon to having a Normal and Hardmode. Then you went to haveing LFR + Normal + Hardmode. It really seems to dilute the experience for me. I kind of like there being portions of the game that are really difficult to do and get access to. It gives the game a sense of mystery to me, and that's from a perspective that I'll never have to time to see that stuff.

If I were to have time to jump back into this game to raid, this whole difficulty thing would sour my experience I think. I really like the idea of shared experience and if everyone kills the big bad dragon, where one group has 5 people afk through it, and the other are a group of korean robots, it tends to cheapen it in my eye.

Anyway, I'd love to see WOW get rid of 10 or 20 mans and all the difficulties and just go right to FLEX for everything and just add bonus wings or different fight scripts if you meet certain thresholds. Like you get a bonus round against a boss if you win in 5 minutes or something. Tha tbonus round gives you prettier things.

Whatever. Not sure why I started writing this.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 16, 2013, 12:54:19 PM
I may use my email for 7 free days this Friday. I've been thinking about playing some anyway, most of the single player games I have are wearing down (I'm halfway through SR4).


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ginaz on September 16, 2013, 10:22:09 PM
Man, fuck that Timeless Island.  It was fun for about 30 mins.  After that, its a slog trying to compete with so many people for resources and mobs.  The island is way too small.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Maledict on September 17, 2013, 12:22:32 AM
Yeah, Blizzard don't seem to understand that GW2s zones are huge for a reason - same with Rift. If you want to run that sort of dynamic experience you need a lot more space to play in, especially given the fact SoW is still stubbornly clinging to the opposing faction system.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Cadaverine on September 17, 2013, 08:56:47 AM
Man, fuck that Timeless Island.  It was fun for about 30 mins.  After that, its a slog trying to compete with so many people for resources and mobs.  The island is way too small.

I didn't even bother competing for mobs.  I just ran the loop of chests, and along the way joined in on any nearby rare spawns, and geared out my DK in about 4 - 5 hours, plus got a fair bit of gear for my Druid, Paladin, and Mage.  It does depend a bit on dumb luck, though, as I did the same on the Druid the next day, and got pretty much all coins from the chests.

That just extends the fun for a few hours.  Once you've gotten geared up, there really isn't anything else to do, unless you want to grind out the 20K coins, or whatever it is for the mount.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Azazel on September 18, 2013, 04:29:36 AM
If Blizzard is listening to that group then they haven't learned anything. They listened to them when they cried about how WoTLK was too easy and we see how that turned out.

I don't think they are going to be going FTP anytime soon. They will end up doing limited micro-transactions and requiring a sub.

They're the same people now?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Azazel on September 18, 2013, 04:30:15 AM
In addition, the current meme among the gaming populace is "when games go free they turn to shit."  I've seen this in STO, LOTR, TOR, and TSW chats. "Man this game was great when it wasn't free.  Now it sucks."  Which is demonstrably not true for each of those, but the sentiment is there.  Plus you're seeing "I'm glad this isn't free" surrounding ESO.

Speaking for LotRO at least, when they started charging for things like UI improvements (The tokens tab, or whatever they called it) they really jumped the shark.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ingmar on September 18, 2013, 11:44:27 AM
In addition, the current meme among the gaming populace is "when games go free they turn to shit."  I've seen this in STO, LOTR, TOR, and TSW chats. "Man this game was great when it wasn't free.  Now it sucks."  Which is demonstrably not true for each of those, but the sentiment is there.  Plus you're seeing "I'm glad this isn't free" surrounding ESO.

Speaking for LotRO at least, when they started charging for things like UI improvements (The tokens tab, or whatever they called it) they really jumped the shark.

That was pretty much just charging for a new kind of bag, I don't really see it as a red line that was crossed there. Charging for inventory space seems to be part and parcel of the whole F2P thing in just about every game.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Shrike on September 19, 2013, 02:45:53 AM
Man, fuck that Timeless Island.  It was fun for about 30 mins.  After that, its a slog trying to compete with so many people for resources and mobs.  The island is way too small.

This.

TI has to be the most boring, pointless thing they've done yet in the game. I was already geared past the drop item level and I could give a shit about my alts at this point.

The only reason I was out there was to see the thing (not impressed to put it mildly) and score a burden in case I need a set of 535 legs to replace the friggin' dress they keep sticking shaman in.

The censer was the poison pill. That thing is pure bullshit to have to endure on a PvE server. If I fucking wanted to do PvP I'd fucking well queue up for it. I don't want to be forced into that shit, especialy as a shaman, whose...ahh fuckit. It's bullshit. That's good enough reason to hate on this stupid moronic shit.

The cherry on top of this steaming pile is it absolutely runs like shit even on a 2500k/580GTX rig. I was routinely seeing sub 20 fps on a box that can usually run 40+ in the shrine at peak hours. I was planning on building a new machine in October anyway, but this just looks like piss poor optimization. Doesn't bode well for the new expansion.

The only fun I had was camping the frogs. At least their combat dynamic made you think a bit. Also, watching morons die to poison stacks right and left was mildly amusing, but not enough to get me out there again once I hit 20k coins.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on September 19, 2013, 05:21:16 AM
Wait, The Censor actually allows you to attack ANYONE on a PvE server?  Even people who are not flagged?  HAHHHHAHHHHAHAHHAHAAAAHAHHAHA. 

I dont know, I kind of like the island, but I really have to work to prevent my OCD from kicking in trying to kill all the fucking rarespawns.  They really took the Isle of Thunder thing and cranked it way past 11.   I mean, I am usually almost valor capped on my main by this time of the week, and now I have barely scratched past about 400, purely because I spend so much time chasing down rarespawns all over the island while doing the weekly chest spawns on my favourite alts....

On the positive side, I dont think i will ever need to buy another Sha crystal again, considering how many of those damned tokens I get that I can send to my Paldain to DE.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on September 19, 2013, 09:53:11 AM
A week after it released, it definitely feels like I ran out of cool stuff to do pretty quickly, but looking at a guide on wowhead last night showed me that I'd actually missed a lot of things.

The island is still a good source of lesser coins, and in that sense it's still way better than doing dailies. Spend an hour or two there each week doing the weeklies, killing rarespawns you find along the way, grabbing chests, and then killing each of the world bosses? Not bad.

The Shao-hao rep grind is nothing short of terrible though. Go from neutral->exalted by killing elite enemies that require a group (or take forever to kill solo for the few classes that can) and give ~22 rep a piece. No thanks. Fortunately most of the rewards are cosmetic so there's not a huge reason to do it unless you really want a sparkly gold MoP dragon, instead of a regular gold MoP dragon or the thousand other mounts in the game at this point.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ginaz on September 22, 2013, 04:18:47 PM
Wow, getting geared up is ridiculously easy.  I went from iLvl 440 to to 503 in about a week.  About half the gear I got on the Timeless Island has been replaced using the gear I got from lfr, inc. 2 pieces of lfr T15.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 23, 2013, 08:38:36 AM
I started playing again. Spent about an hour getting gear on the island of silliness, and got a ton of epics. Then I realized I really hate doing DPS on my warrior, so I switched over to leveling my shaman, which is 84 now.

It's nice to get back into it again and having fun leveling stuff, getting gear, and generally not worrying about raids.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ingmar on September 23, 2013, 02:46:15 PM
Did I miss the public apology?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 23, 2013, 03:31:01 PM
Did I miss the public apology?  :why_so_serious:

Heh, no.  :grin:

They added flexible raids (something I've clamored about for years) and the Island of silly loot nixes two of my major objections with the direction of this xpac. Dailies aren't really a big deal anymore as a result, and I want to vote with my wallet the same way I voted out. Also, I think the delay of Titan was what really put the focus back on WoW, especially from the comments in the investor packages given the falloff of subs.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 23, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
They still haven't learned anything, making stuff easier at the end of an expac is what they've always done.  Also....

Quote
Why? If i am happy in lfr why do you want to push me out of it?
Because it provides you more content. Compare: Run LFR until finished vs. Run LFR until finished, THEN run Flex

In their minds, running the same dungeon for the same loot at a higher ilvl = content!


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on September 24, 2013, 03:17:16 AM
Exactly.  No lessons learned, expect a return to the stupid with the next expansion.

They'd started off so well in 2004 but have regressed so much since wotlk.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Fabricated on September 24, 2013, 04:47:07 AM
Yeah, I'm sure all of the small group content will give absolutely trash rewards at the beginning of the next expansion and there'll be "more dynamic" dailies you're expected to do endlessly for soulless faction grinding to get raid/LFR ready. And the normal/flex raids won't be tuned right so it'll end up causing the "cap out, gear LFR ready, gear up in LFR, unsub til next patch" thing rather than encouraging those people to do the "additional content" of normal/flex raiding.

And they'll wonder why subs are down and decide the answer is more dailies and handjobs for like the 20 people still doing heroic raiding.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Maledict on September 24, 2013, 05:55:24 AM
Without wanting to sound horrible, this is exactly the model that drove me from the game 4 years ago when they decided that all challenging content was being put into heroics and you'd have to repeat the same dungeon with bugger numbers for higher ilevel loot.

It sucked then, and it sucks now. Repeating content on no higher difficulty is a bloody stupid model that in the long term really pushes people from the game.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 24, 2013, 06:06:20 AM
I am still in shock that they flat out said running the same dungeon for the SAME loot with slightly bigger numbers was content.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 24, 2013, 09:02:16 AM
They still haven't learned anything, making stuff easier at the end of an expac is what they've always done.  Also....

Quote
Why? If i am happy in lfr why do you want to push me out of it?
Because it provides you more content. Compare: Run LFR until finished vs. Run LFR until finished, THEN run Flex

In their minds, running the same dungeon for the same loot at a higher ilvl = content!

I didn't say they learned anything. I just said I liked the idea of flex raiding and easy loot. I'll play for 3 months and quit again if I'm bored. However, I think the shot to their sub numbers with no viable replacement on the horizon has made them take WoW more seriously from a development standpoint, simply because they can't afford to have a similar slide in 2014 if they want to maintain investor confidence now that they've saddled up with debt to get rid of Vivendi.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Maledict on September 24, 2013, 11:15:07 AM
I am still in shock that they flat out said running the same dungeon for the SAME loot with slightly bigger numbers was content.

Agin, this is the same model that higher end raiders have suffered for the last 4 years. It sucks.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: El Gallo on September 25, 2013, 08:35:57 PM
Loot Island seemed fun the first couple days when I snagged all the chests.  But now it's basically killed my desire to log in.  To get the cool vanity shit -- I'm very motivated by cool vanity shit -- (or the thingies that upgrade the chest gear) you need to get a ton of timeless coins.  So I found myself standing around with my thumb up my ass waiting for a rare mob to pop on NPCScan so I can hope to get a hit on it before it dies.  Just like EverQuest, the game I and everyone else abandoned when WOW came out.  But at least in EQ I didn't actually need to pay attention.

I'd much rather have timeless coins come from good old-fashioned daily quests.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 26, 2013, 06:39:25 AM
They drop from regular stuff too though right? Not just elites.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on September 26, 2013, 08:29:33 AM
Everything on the island can drop coins.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on September 26, 2013, 10:12:28 AM
Best way to play the island IMO is to do the daily/weekly stuff (chest, quests, world bosses) over the course of a couple days and just kill the rare spawns you see while doing them. I do wish the island had more dynamic events like Rift or GW2 because having a set agenda which is the same every day/week gets boring quickly. The closest thing to that at the moment is the pirate ship every hour or whatever. Still, there is a lot to do and there are a few different avenues to different vanity items so you don't need to be farming coins or Shaohao rep if you would rather pursue some of the other items.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: El Gallo on September 26, 2013, 03:15:06 PM
must....have.....all.....items.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on September 26, 2013, 04:18:00 PM
Leveling alts in pandaland in a duo isn't too bad, but there are times when I face the cutscenes and it sort of ruins the group interaction.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on September 26, 2013, 04:19:21 PM
Leveling alts solo takes forever in Pandaria. I'm pretty sure they already bumped the xp but I think they need to do it again.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on September 27, 2013, 07:48:44 AM
They did bump it once.

The last couple alts that I leveled, I found it easier to put up with, by throwing pet battles in with the questing. So, kill 5 out of 10 rats, hey there's a battle pet, oh there's another one right there, now kill the last 5 of 10.

Winning a pet battle gives you a nice dose of xp. I don't know if it's more efficient than pure questing, but I can put up with it for longer that way.

YMMV of course.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on September 27, 2013, 07:51:23 AM
Leveling alts solo takes forever in Pandaria. I'm pretty sure they already bumped the xp but I think they need to do it again.

They cut the exp requirement by 30%. IMO it flies by pretty fast now, at least with rested xp anyway.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: apocrypha on October 01, 2013, 11:31:06 PM
So, got suckered back into playing this with a couple of pals. Good timing for 50% MoP sale  :awesome_for_real:

Got my mage to 90 in 3 days, and now haven't got any idea what to do next. We had a quick go on the Timeless Isle and purples rained from the sky, which was nice. Will be doing more of that for sure.

Are there any quest chains or reputations that you'd consider particularly useful/fun/rewarding to do?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on October 02, 2013, 05:53:30 AM
The Order of the Cloud Serpent rep wasn't as grindy as the other ones and you can then get all the cloud serpent mounts. The other ones are/were horrible grinds and I don't think I'd want to do any of them. People seemed to like the Klaxxi chain too, though by the time I got to it I was sick of questing.

*edit - by grindy I mean day after day after day of daily quests. You can't even grind it out in a few days if you wanted to.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on October 02, 2013, 06:04:25 AM
I liked the fishing guys rep too. Not Nat Pagle, the group of fishing guys.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on October 02, 2013, 09:37:59 AM
The Tillers rep is pretty fun/painless, still useful too.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: apocrypha on October 03, 2013, 03:29:22 AM
Cheers. I've started the Cloud Serpent stuff, which looks like it'll be painless since my realm is very low pop now.

Also started tanking & healing random dungeons on a paladin & druid alt respectively. Nothing like tanking dungeons you've never been in before, in shitty quest greens and previous expansion gear to learn your class and the dungeons fast  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on October 03, 2013, 11:52:40 PM
Tillers is fast and very useful, since most people use their farm for profession mats, you visit the farm at least once every day, and this gives you an exalted Repair vendor to repair at, as well as your own personal inn if you want somewhere safe to log out where you can never be ganked.

Cloud serpent is pretty fast (especially if you have the +rep token thing from a previous main), and as a bonus, you can get eggs for rep from some of the timeless isle mobs.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on October 09, 2013, 06:33:01 AM
I got my Shaman to 90, and now I'm running around on purple pants island. I found one of those 535 upgrade things and put it on my cloak, which is nice since I'm likely never doing that legendary cloak thing.

The rest of this island is just like watching a hilarious version of Benny Hill when a rare pops up.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on October 28, 2013, 11:41:42 AM
Possibly the big thing for 5.4 that Blizzard backpeddled on?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3491-Character-Level-Scaling-Feature-Connected-Realm-Updates-and-Feedback-Blue-Tweets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESXjRc6dfo


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2013, 02:27:00 PM
I'm a little concerned at that idea. Mainly because it seems like a good way to recycle the old content AGAIN for people instead of working on newer stuff.

Other concern would be that it's not optional. No more farming old raids, you get auto-scaled.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hawkbit on October 28, 2013, 03:10:30 PM
It's like they go wildly out of their way to create quality new content anymore.  They need to pull half the QoL team into the content teams.  Or, well, they needed to do that about five years ago, anyways.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on October 28, 2013, 03:26:17 PM
Rumour has it that 90% of what was the Titan team got moved back to the WoW live team in the last couple of months, but I'll believe that when I start seeing evidence of it in content.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2013, 05:15:17 PM
Yeah that's the rumor ever since they announced they were retooling Titan. I was shocked they didn't just declare the project dead.

The flex raid thing was a good idea, and something that I've been wanting for a long time. Now they just need to apply the same mentality to dungeons between 2-5 people. That way they would remove the distinction between dungeons and scenarios to just have content.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: SurfD on October 29, 2013, 03:03:59 AM
Yeah that's the rumor ever since they announced they were retooling Titan. I was shocked they didn't just declare the project dead.

The flex raid thing was a good idea, and something that I've been wanting for a long time. Now they just need to apply the same mentality to dungeons between 2-5 people. That way they would remove the distinction between dungeons and scenarios to just have content.
Well, how would that affect the length of the stuff though?   I thought the entire distinction between scenarios and dungeons was not supposed to be 3 vs 5 man, but rather be that scenarios were intended to be shorter, and dungeons longer.   If you lump it all together under a flex 3-5 scaling, there would have to be some pretty interesting reward scaling hoodoo going on to make people want to do the longer "dungeons" over the shorter "scenarios".


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on October 29, 2013, 06:39:40 AM
They would all be the same length in my mind. Blizzard has already sort of ditched adding 5 man content in favor of scenarios. They might as well take the next step which is combine the two ideas, find a middle ground length and flex them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ironwood on November 03, 2013, 02:58:58 AM
Oh what the fuck.  Started again and I'm utterly, utterly lost.

So much has changed and so much just seems good (Proving grounds ?  Fucking brilliant idea.  Flex Raids ?  Yes Please.)

I'm LOOOOOOSTTTTT.



Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 03, 2013, 05:22:58 PM
Best thing to do is go to the timeless island and just start doing quests there. It holds your hand nicely while handing you loot bags.

Then once you have loot bags, do some quick LFR stuff to catch up on what happened with the story. Also, go to the Shadopan place to get the Thunder Island for the Thunder key faction stuff. That has story too.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ironwood on November 04, 2013, 01:19:36 AM
Cheers mate, I'm already doing the first one, but I'll start on the second.

I saw a hunter with a cool as fuck Tricerotops as a pet;  fuck me, I want one of them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Soulflame on November 04, 2013, 08:12:28 AM
You are weak, Highlander.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 04, 2013, 08:29:54 AM
I also remembered this: Your farm is useful now for reputation stuff. Just talk to Nana Mudclaw if you are exalted with the Tillers and she'll give you the daily work order quest sheet in the farm. This will let you plant stuff for reputation.

Also make sure if you are revered in any faction in pandaria on any toon, go buy the commendation. This gives you double the reputation all the way up to exalted. This also works with farm work orders to double the rep. It makes the faction grinding much less of a pain in the ass.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on November 04, 2013, 09:06:26 AM
Also make sure if you are revered in any faction in pandaria on any toon, go buy the commendation. This gives you double the reputation all the way up to exalted. This also works with farm work orders to double the rep. It makes the faction grinding much less of a pain in the ass.

And they're account-bound, so any alts you have will benefit.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on November 04, 2013, 10:32:09 AM
Cheers mate, I'm already doing the first one, but I'll start on the second.

From the SA New/Returning Player thread:
Quote
Step 1: Get thee to the Timeless Isle. Remember to set your loot specialization (right-click your portrait) to the role you want to gear up first (probably healer/tank if your class is capable of them and you can stand to do them), then get a bunch of the 496 random-suffix armor pieces. Random heroic dungeons are an alternative: run them for JP, use JP to buy 489/496 items. World bosses (Sha of Anger, Galleon, Oondasta, Nalak, the Celestials on Timeless Isle) can be killed once per week for loot, and you only need to hit them once before they die to get credit for killing them. If you fucking love dealing with idiots, get Elder Charms by acquiring a treasure room key and doing the scenario, then queue for MSV/HoF/ToES LFR wings and try not to kill yourself from the concentrated level of stupid contained within. When you get enough VP for it, buy the necklace from Shado-Pan Assault.
Step 2: Once you hit average ilvl 480 (the second number if you're looking at your character sheet), queue for Throne of Thunder LFR. Get as many Mogu Runes of Fate as you can by trading in Timeless Coins. Look at the loot table in the dungeon journal (default keybinding is shift-J) and figure out which bosses have the best drops for you, and use a coin roll on them for an extra chance at loot. Also pick up the heroic scenario quest from your faction shrine (in the central area inside), and do that for a free random-suffix 516. Random heroic scenarios are also a good option for gearing, since subsequent randoms will give you a chance at another 516 item. Maybe look into the 535 random-suffix loot in Timeless Isle: you can get one guaranteed one by having someone ferry you to the Blazing Chest, and you can buy them for a obscene number of Timeless Coins. If you kill a few bosses in ToT LFR, you will hit friendly with Shado-Pan Assault and gain access to a lot more 522 VP items.
Step 3: Once you hit average ilvl 496, queue for Siege of Orgrimmar LFR. At this point you are basically up to date: make sure your gear is properly gemmed, reforged, and enchanted (look in your class thread) and start looking around for flex or normal mode raiding groups. You won't be able to use a coin on every boss: you can turn in 50 Lesser Charms for 3 Warforged Seals once per week under your faction's shrine. Try to get into flex pickup groups, or even a normal mode raid. Use VP on upgrading your best pieces.

That should give you some idea of the numbers you'll need for the various stuff.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: craan on November 04, 2013, 12:30:58 PM
It also helps if you loop some Benny Hill music when you're on the Timeless Isle.  It makes all the chat more fun.

Timer on Huo?
Huo up!
Huo at 60%
Slow DPS please!
Huo at 20%
NOOO SLOW DPS PLS!!
Where is Huo?
RareCoordinator:  Huolon is now dead.
ARRRRGH SELFISH PRICKS I TOLD YOU TO SLOW DPS

Repeat for Ship, Maw, etc.  Although Huo is more 'important' because of the chance at a mount drop and the Vesuvius/Evermaw drop a rather large amount of coins.

Also, Timeless Isle helps gearing any alts you have a lot less of a problem if you save the 496 gear tokens.  Often you can completely deck out a new level 90 to near-full 496 or close to it.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ironwood on November 04, 2013, 12:31:09 PM
You are weak, Highlander.

There's a story here, but it's not interesting and, frankly, wouldn't change the facts.

So, yeah, pretty much.  But the wife got a whole Raid full of loot and was happy.  After a while, whatever does that, you know ?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rasix on November 04, 2013, 12:38:45 PM
I was going to play a little again, just for a laugh.  I actually installed the game. Then I looked at the links of my "Come back and play again" email that I got, and it was just another phishing attempt.  Crisis averted.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 04, 2013, 04:46:04 PM
It's pretty fun for a while if you don't take it very seriously. Which at this point, why the fuck would you?

Example, I'm getting all my cooking achievements. I'm getting reps done I never did. I bought a flying dragon. Etc.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on November 04, 2013, 11:10:56 PM
It's pretty fun for a while if you don't take it very seriously. Which at this point, why the fuck would you?

Example, I'm getting all my cooking achievements. I'm getting reps done I never did. I bought a flying dragon. Etc.

You're in denial.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on November 05, 2013, 02:30:54 AM
It's pretty fun for a while if you don't take it very seriously. Which at this point, why the fuck would you?

Example, I'm getting all my cooking achievements. I'm getting reps done I never did. I bought a flying dragon. Etc.
Do you have one of these yet? (http://www.wowhead.com/item=73764)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 05, 2013, 09:02:03 AM
It's pretty fun for a while if you don't take it very seriously. Which at this point, why the fuck would you?

Example, I'm getting all my cooking achievements. I'm getting reps done I never did. I bought a flying dragon. Etc.

You're in denial.

About what? The raids?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Ironwood on November 05, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
He's suggesting you're addicted and not being entirely honest with yourself.

He might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Soulflame on November 05, 2013, 12:51:22 PM
You are weak, Highlander.

There's a story here, but it's not interesting and, frankly, wouldn't change the facts.

So, yeah, pretty much.  But the wife got a whole Raid full of loot and was happy.  After a while, whatever does that, you know ?
I certainly understand that.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 05, 2013, 05:17:26 PM
He's suggesting you're addicted and not being entirely honest with yourself.

He might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.


Nah, I'm entirely solo right now and rolled up a shaman rather than playing my warrior. Some days I just don't bother logging in because honestly? You don't have to do dailies or whatnot like that anymore. You can get your valor points easily through LFG and the Timeless isle.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on November 07, 2013, 08:11:31 AM
He's suggesting you're addicted and not being entirely honest with yourself.

He might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.


Heh this. I'm happy you're enjoying the game but I'm also observing that you're trying to convince yourself something as well.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 07, 2013, 08:17:56 AM
You'll know it's hopeless if I start really raiding again, but with my current guild, that's extremely unlikely. They just like to collect pets.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Draegan on November 07, 2013, 08:50:50 AM


Heh, no.  :grin:

They added flexible raids (something I've clamored about for years) and the Island of silly loot nixes two of my major objections with the direction of this xpac. Dailies aren't really a big deal anymore as a result, and I want to vote with my wallet the same way I voted out. Also, I think the delay of Titan was what really put the focus back on WoW, especially from the comments in the investor packages given the falloff of subs.

:)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on November 07, 2013, 09:56:12 AM
Oddly I don't flex raid at all, but I like the idea.

YOU WON'T GET ME IN YOUR WEB OF ADDICTION


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on November 21, 2013, 03:05:18 PM
The ugly fey dragon mount is now available with a cool beer dog pokemon in the online store.

https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/world-of-warcraft-mount-fey-dragon-bundle


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on November 21, 2013, 06:33:55 PM
I like the dog. I see a lot of these pets on the store and think to myself "that would be kind of cool", then I see that they cost $10 and I don't buy them.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Lantyssa on November 21, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
The fey mount looks cool to me, not that I need it.  Is it sad the only thing I miss from the game are my green proto-drakes?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on November 22, 2013, 07:50:57 AM
If you right click on the dog pet, you get a stein of brew. Your buddies can use it too. Unlimited supply. And unlike the keg toy, you can keep your pet out indefinitely. And it follows you around.

And I haven't even looked at his battle pet abilities yet.



Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on November 22, 2013, 07:56:45 AM
The terrible secret of Garrosh's Old God juice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjlEn88kABI&feature=youtu.be&t=5m13s

(5 minutes in)


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on May 26, 2014, 10:53:06 AM
Bump for 5.4.8.  You can now drop 3k Timeless Coins for 100 Valor.  So now you have something "useful" to spend the coins on.  Which you'll of course need to upgrade all of your SoO gear that just got allotted two more upgrade levels, including the legendary cloaks.

They also baked in a couple new global buffs.  One doubles your Black Prince rep and increases the chance you'll get legendary quest item drops.  The other buff doubles all Valor income, making those 100 Valor Timeless Coin trinkets even more valuable.  Both buffs aren't active though, and they aren't saying when or how you're gonna get them yet.  I'll take a guess that they might start doing weekend buffs a la Diablo 3 to try and keep people retained until 6.0.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: luckton on May 30, 2014, 06:31:03 AM
And lo, my guess was correct. Two week double Valor income start today.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14313211/heart-of-the-valorous-buff-5-29-2014

Now if they only doubled the cap at the same time...


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on June 11, 2014, 12:47:39 PM
New firey horse mount is live in the cash shop for $30.

(http://www.blizzpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/warforgednightmare.png)

You'll accept this as a replacement for actual content updates, right?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Sjofn on June 11, 2014, 04:18:01 PM
Hey, at least it's a ground mount. For riding on the ground. Like we're going to make you do for an entire expansion because we think that we totally CAN put genies back in bottles.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 11, 2014, 05:26:36 PM
There should be a running clock on the wall at Blizzard that times how long they've been between content.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Soulflame on June 11, 2014, 09:43:55 PM
You want that clock to have a nervous breakdown?


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Zetor on June 11, 2014, 11:15:32 PM
There should be a running clock on the wall at Blizzard that times how long they've been between content.
http://patchtimer.org/ used to do that in BC (and WOTLK/Cata too maybe?), but it seems to be defunct now.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2014, 07:02:51 AM
Oh I mean it's easy to make one and put it on the internet.

Were I running Activision, I'd want that clock in every cubicle, and every manager's office. This shit has gotten beyond unacceptable.

In the original version they had 12 patches, with a gap of about 4 months between the last one and expansion.

In TBC they had 4 major patches, with the gap of about 7.5 months between the last one and the expansion.

In Wrath they had 3 major patches, with Ruby Sanctum getting released last as 3.3.5 patch. The gap there was about 5.5 months between Ruby Sanctum and Cata, and a year between 3.3 and expansion. That was one of the longest between a major patch, but they had the small content patch as a stopgap.

In Cata they 3 major patches, with a gap of 10.5 months between last major patch and expansion.

And now in Mists the last major patch was on September 10th. As of today, we're at 9 months and counting with no real end in sight. Again, the longest wait ever was between Wrath and Cataclysm, but even then they put a small raid in the middle just to break up the pace. They've done nothing here.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Rokal on June 12, 2014, 08:29:37 AM
The weirder thing is that Catacylsm taking so long was due to a really easy to understand issue: they wanted to revamp the entire old world and it was a ton of work. By all accounts WoD just looks like any other expansion.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on June 12, 2014, 08:32:15 AM
As of today, we're at 9 months and counting with no real end in sight. Again, the longest wait ever was between Wrath and Cataclysm, but even then they put a small raid in the middle just to break up the pace. They've done nothing here.

Removing features that players love takes a long time.

So does changing the game to cater to a small portion of your existing playerbase.

That makes sense, right?  :uhrr:


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Mithas on June 12, 2014, 08:53:28 AM
You'd think they'd get a boost from bringing in people that were working on Titan. I don't know how many came over to WoW, but they made it seem like it wasn't a small number.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on June 12, 2014, 09:00:04 AM
I wonder if they were planning to let players fly in Titan.
Or enjoy class abilities in PvE without worrying about whether they'd be nerfed for the sake of PvP "balance".
Or get visually similar armor sets from e-z mode raiding.
:why_so_serious:



Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2014, 09:01:58 AM
Titan's dead. That thing will never see the light of day. I sold my stock in ATVI the day I found out that news.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Hutch on June 12, 2014, 09:36:35 AM
Titan's dead. That thing will never see the light of day. I sold my stock in ATVI the day I found out that news.

Yes it's dead. I'm implying that the terrible ideas that Blizzard is implementing in WoFWAB were thought up by the Titan refugees.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2014, 10:13:12 AM
I don't really think the Titan people got moved back to Wow, other than the mainline grunts. I think the functional design people are on other projects we don't know about yet.

Blizzard is declaring that WoW has a terminal disease without saying it out loud. At other times when numbers have dropped, they've addressed it in the press along with a series of ideas that they believe will bring them back. In this particular case they are saying very little about the long gap and doing less.

I don't think Blizzard believes WoW can bring them back anymore. If they did, there would be more response to the flagging numbers than no content updates for 9 months. There would be more response to customer problems rather than removing flying from the xpac, in a move we can only assume will reduce development efforts on art assets, and bring back invisible walls. There would be more response to the criticisms of investors that the company has now assumed over four and a half billion dollars in debt.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Merusk on June 12, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Sometime around '09 I thought they'd said they only planned for the game through level 100 anyway.  It's reaching the expected end of the lifecycle. 

I believe they planned for players to transition to Titan once this next x-pac was over in their initial plans. I'm willing to bet they didn't have a plan B, because they've been riding pretty high for a while.


Title: Re: 5.4 - Needs more kitchen sink
Post by: Simond on June 12, 2014, 12:44:41 PM
Sometime around '09 I thought they'd said they only planned for the game through level 100 anyway.  It's reaching the expected end of the lifecycle. 

I believe they planned for players to transition to Titan once this next x-pac was over in their initial plans. I'm willing to bet they didn't have a plan B, because they've been riding pretty high for a while.
Nah, that was fanwank by idiots like the "Here's all the expansions" fake-leak.