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f13.net General Forums => MechWarrior Online => Topic started by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 06:04:21 AM



Title: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 06:04:21 AM
OH HELL YEAH. AT LAST. Some info and a bit of a fake preview.

Quote
Let's get started!

UI 2.0 is a significant overhaul of the existing MWO user interface, both on the surface and under the hood.

Three main goals:

- Reduce friction for new players.
- Communicate information in a clear and simple manner.
- Make each screen relevant to the task at hand (contextual).

And one bonus goal:

- Make the Front End a little more sexy.

General Improvements

- Full support for Windowed, Full Screen, and Full Window view modes.
- Supports standard game resolutions 1024x768 to 1920x1200.
- More dynamic, lots of nice transitions, takes advantage of Scaleform and Flash animations.
- Supports element locking, useful for new players and tutorials.
- Frames-safe for 4:3 resolutions.
- New behind the scene UI architecture reduces bad states, improves stability, and reliability.
- Faster.


NOTE: The following images are mock-ups (not screen shots). They represent Work In Progress (WIP) concepts that are subject to change. The data and item images found within these screens is not correct, and place holder only.


(http://i.imgur.com/uFoui4x.jpg)


Elements

1 Horizontal Navigation Bar
2 Utility Bar
3 Vertical Navigation Bar
4 Contextual Status Menu
5 At-a-glance BattleMech Details
6 List Filtering
7 Compare Tool
8 List Item
9 Mech Efficiency Status

Overview

- The horizontal navigation bar (1) has been made larger and easier to read.
- The previous horizontal sub-nav bar has been replaced by a vertical nav bar (3).
- The previous status bar has been split into the new utility bar (2) and the contextual status menu (4).
- The previous two `Mech detail elements have been reworked slightly and separated (5). The Mech Detail screen gives players a much better overall view of the Mech loadout.
- Standardized list element for all store and MechLab interfaces. Includes the ability to filter based on common concepts like A-Z, Price High to Low, Owned, Not Owned, In-Game, etc. (6).
- Easy compare functionality standard throughout the UI. (7)
- Standard list elements (8) showing Selected, Readied, Sale Status, In-Game Status, Price information, buy and configure buttons, and the Mech type and Name.
- Current Mech Efficiency status – Basic, Elite, Master. (9)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 09, 2013, 06:08:07 AM
Shift + Tab for social tools = they still don't understand it.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 06:10:00 AM
More.


Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/rGmbPWU.jpg)

As you can see in the above image, we have moved the main navigation elements around. This follows our new principal navigation flow as seen below:

(http://i.imgur.com/ndRF6TN.jpg)

The horizontal navigation bar (1) will inform (change) the vertical navigation bar (2), which in turn changes the main view.

(http://i.imgur.com/mMxvZck.jpg)

Menu and Social buttons have been replace by Logout and Settings, along with a new global chat/social interface similar to Steam.

(http://i.imgur.com/mZtSQAK.jpg)

The old status bar has been split, with relevant meta data (MC, CB, GXP), being moved to a Contextual Status Menu that changes depending on which screen you are currently in. The current view expresses the MechLab Status Menu.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 06:12:47 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/i7S1axD.jpg)

The new Mech Selection screen is much more streamlined, allowing players to quickly find, select, modify, buy, and sell their equipment.

This common list view element is used throughout the MechLab and Store interfaces. No longer will players need to learn 3-5 different ways to modify or view information about their items.

Note how we have used the vertical nav bar to sort Mechs by class! Further refinement can be down by using drop down list view filters.

Buying BatlteMechs and MechBays has never been more easy.

(http://i.imgur.com/uLVx0hw.jpg)

Players can will be able to quickly compare Mechs and Items, using the compare tool.

Note the sell button!

(http://i.imgur.com/v56FYWq.jpg)

Mech Details

(http://i.imgur.com/XShPqRd.jpg)

tem Details

(http://i.imgur.com/S9rsGm0.jpg)

Configure Loadout

(http://i.imgur.com/ljKmQ0Y.jpg)

Equipment

(http://i.imgur.com/0jTc1Go.jpg)

Camo Spec

(http://i.imgur.com/V3UkhXy.jpg)

Configure Weapon Groups!

(http://i.imgur.com/GjVrPzj.jpg)

Reworked Pilot Lab makes finding, navigating, and upgrading MechTree much easier.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 06:14:29 AM
Shift + Tab for social tools = they still don't understand it.

More than anything I guess that means the game will never be on Steam.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 09, 2013, 06:31:17 AM
Fuck me, a wall of info appears.

Can we save mech type templates ?


EDIT :  No.  Apparently not.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 06:50:07 AM
We definitely need a "Save Template" option, and we absolutely need a screen with all the 'mech stats like amount of torso twisting, turning speed and all that, along with specific quirks. If they drop the ball on this they are just fuckin idiots.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 09, 2013, 06:51:39 AM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/704172/F13%20Photos/AT%20Ball%20Drop.gif)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 09, 2013, 06:52:08 AM
What the fuck.

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 07:48:09 AM
Quote
Internal testing starts in late July. Public test mid to late August. Live late Summer.

Quote
Question:
Was there a "Strip Mech" button for unequipping everything... or will there be an ability to save Loadouts that would really negate the need for a Strip button?

Bryan Ekman's answer:
Strip mech - yes. Loadouts are still being discussed internally.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 09, 2013, 09:02:14 AM
What's to fucking discuss ?

I want a chassis and a pile of parts.  When I go to game, I want to click 'skirmish' or 'long range' or 'whimsy' and find myself in battle with the loadout of my choice.

Because anything else is just bollocks.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Slayerik on May 09, 2013, 09:10:15 AM
Weapon grouping out of matching....good.

Where is the new social stuff, did I miss it?


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 09, 2013, 09:14:18 AM
Yeah, I think you missed it.

...

It was flashing down the bottom corner of your screen.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Slayerik on May 09, 2013, 09:29:43 AM
Nicely done :)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 09, 2013, 10:59:06 AM
Weapon grouping out of matching....good.

Where is the new social stuff, did I miss it?

There isn't any beyond the one line that says "Hit Shift+Tab to see social options."   

Because putting it on a completely separate screen where it doesn't even show on the main UI is an even better idea.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 09, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
They stated in that thread that the social stuff and the inventory screen are still hidden, but they are gonna be there of course. Same for the Community Warfare parts of the UI.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Goreschach on May 09, 2013, 01:22:02 PM
Quote
NOTE: The following images are mock-ups (not screen shots). They represent Work In Progress (WIP) concepts that are subject to change. The data and item images found within these screens is not correct, and place holder only.

In other words, they haven't actually done any of this stuff. They're still thinking about doing it.

After half a year.


(http://i.imgur.com/pE25WhL.jpg)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 09, 2013, 01:54:14 PM
They have people skills Goddamit.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 10, 2013, 12:24:23 AM
Ekman replied specifically to my request, which is good because I was really annoyed annoyed at the lack of info on that:

Quote
Lefteye, on 09 May 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:
Also DO NOT FORGET to add a line for 'mech quirks and specific 'mech statistics, like amount of torso twist, turn rate and so on. That stuff is REALLY important, and we all love numbers. Do not drop the ball, this shouldn't be too hard right? Right.


Ekman's reply: Coming soon with some tweaked mock ups.

Good.


Also, on social stuff someone pointed out what Merusk already did:

Quote
InMidnightClad, on 09 May 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:
Bryan, Now that you're back and poking around in this thread would you mind taking a moment to address the concern about Hiding Social features behind a keyboard shortcut (For the Steam Overlay) instead of a dedicated button? It's popped up a few time and people (Myself included) are a little anxious to see the social aspect of this game trivialized.


I don't think removing a button trivializes the social aspect. In both cases - button or text, players always know how to get to social features. Based on some of the other feedback - having chat always on screen etc. We're still looking at ways to improve this and make sure we give players enough tools to quickly connect with friends and other players.

As for grouping and faction/merc corp/group chat and launch features, stay tuned for a WIP shot. We've changed a bunch of things related to launching the game that should address player concerns/suggestions as well.



Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 10, 2013, 01:11:44 AM
That reply tells me that haven't learned shit from the mistakes.

Social Tools need to be upfront and in your face AT ALL TIMES.  For fucks sake, it's the most important part of the game for most.  And those for whom it's not will soon learn...


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 13, 2013, 05:00:39 AM
About the social stuff, seems like they are trying to listen to the players. The Devs opened a thread specifically (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/117323-ui-20-social-discussion/) to see what players are expecting (since they obviously didn't get it so far).

Then Ekman made a comment that tells me they are at least aware of the dissatisfaction (what's a WIP by the way?):

Quote
Disgruntled player said:
the social aspect of this game is what needs the most improvement in this game, imo. i like the looks of the new ui but to me its nothing more than fluff. i want to see improvements to the social aspects of the game. i was hoping to see some improvements here, unfortunately ive been disappointed.

Bryan Ekman said:
Don't be disappointed! We haven't showed it to you yet! Hold tight, WIP will be coming soon.

and on loudouts/templates:

Quote
Mech loadouts are being discussed internally. We like the concept, just need to make sure it plays nice with the game architecture (secured/safe transactions between client and server). Moving items around is designed to be very safe and foolproof, so once the technical aspects are solved I would expect to see this show up. The new UI is being designed to have this ability.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 13, 2013, 05:36:21 AM
Work In Progress.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 13, 2013, 05:39:05 AM
Mech loadouts are being discussed internally. We like the concept, just need to make sure it plays nice with the game architecture (secured/safe transactions between client and server). Moving items around is designed to be very safe and foolproof, so once the technical aspects are solved I would expect to see this show up. The new UI is being designed to have this ability.

This makes zero sense.  I don't even know why you'd bring this up as a thing.  The template loadout would just be a way to save previous configurations.  If you want us to go into the mechlab to apply them, fair enough.  But 'Secure Transactions' is just nonsense.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 13, 2013, 06:01:32 AM
Do these guys not speak English natively? Is there some sort of translation problem?  I had the exact same thought as Ironwood; that whole paragraph makes ZERO sense.  Are they thinking the players are talking about trading equipment between players and not just a simple "Gassapult vs. PPCapult" loadout template?

Unless what you bought for your mechlab is stored locally? Which would be just crazypants on head clownshoes nonsense.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 13, 2013, 06:49:08 AM
Well, they ARE Canadian....


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Slayerik on May 13, 2013, 06:56:36 AM
I'd like my friends list a lot better if people still played this game.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 13, 2013, 07:02:42 AM
Well I'm still waiting till mech sniper online goes away before I play again, probably going to wait at least another 4 weeks anyway.

On the loadout thing, if the ultimate aim is for players to be easily able to share builds, then you have the issue of a player loading a build he doesn't have the parts for.  As that could include hero mechs that need mc, maybe they want a load build screen with a buy button to encourage people speeding mc (the secured/safe transactions bit).

Also I got the feeling months ago that they weren't in a hurry to have easily switchable loadouts as the current solution is just to buy two mechs of the same type, I know I used to do that before the final wipe.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 13, 2013, 07:05:52 AM
I still play 3-5 matches a day almost every day, but I never see anyone else doing so.   Played a few last night after my WOT matches, in fact.  (My ELO seems to have plummeted. My teams are back to doing fuckstupid things like running off alone or not following the targets of my ECM-PPC Spider instead of being reasonably competent and coordinated)

Also I got the feeling months ago that they weren't in a hurry to have easily switchable loadouts as the current solution is just to buy two mechs of the same type, I know I used to do that before the final wipe.

Seems foolish.  I'll spend the time swapping rather than buy another bay on top of the nutty C-bill grind to get another chassis. Cost:Benefit says I come out on top spending 5 mins rejiggering with my parts library and bookmarks to builds on Mechromancer vs. 40+ hours to get 9 million for another 4F.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 13, 2013, 07:11:02 AM
Before the wipe you got free MC and there were only a few mechs at the time, they'll have noticed people did it though.  Think I had two k2's, couple of the same atlas, forget which one now.  I've considered doing it for the stalker 5m as it's a nice srm or lrm boat, or was before they broke srm's and lrm's.

Also the amount I played Cbills were never really a problem.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Llyse on May 13, 2013, 07:14:22 AM
I'd like my friends list a lot better if people still played this game.

Definitely will be trying to get a few games every now again timezones giving


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 13, 2013, 07:15:15 AM
Mech sniper has subsided a little.  I'm noticing that a lot of players are being much more sneaky and that teams of 'Pure' Snipers are actually getting owned quite hard.  No, the real problem with the current state of play is how nasty these sniper mechs can be up close - They are just as dangerous, if not more so.  That's the real imbalance here.  If I'm sitting with tons of short range weapons at a 58 damage loadout, I'm just as likely to die versus the current Gauss/PPC/AC build who's nasty from miles away, but will still core me when I lurch into their view.

I don't really understand your point though Arthur, since swapping loadouts between players seems like a waste of time and something you wouldn't do.  Also, if you don't have 'the bits' the loadout should just fail or partially build, in which case, tough tittie.

I still enjoy it, but not as much as I used to and it's downright fucking annoying when you die to poptarting bullshit.  Also, the Blackjack excites me not a bit and, more importantly, it's another Ballistic/Energy mech that can jump.  Gee, I wonder what people will load onto it ??


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: satael on May 13, 2013, 07:33:10 AM
I usually log in once or twice a day just to see noone on my friends list in game and then maybe playing a match or two but rarely more  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 13, 2013, 07:58:18 AM
I don't really understand your point though Arthur, since swapping loadouts between players seems like a waste of time and something you wouldn't do.  Also, if you don't have 'the bits' the loadout should just fail or partially build, in which case, tough tittie.

Larger groups have approved builds, some groups are very strict about it.  I generally take an approved build and snowflake it a little if I'm dropping in a group, though way back before we got really organised you used to figure out your own.  

It's surprising how much shit your own team will give you on comms if they think your build is shit.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 13, 2013, 08:00:33 AM
Fuck 'em.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 13, 2013, 08:03:48 AM
Well only really happened to me bad once and I told the guy to go fuck himself as he'd died 1st.  Some people get serious about robots.

8 mans especially more teams than not will all be using set builds, especially in the various tournament matches I played in.  Loading a build would make all that an awful lot easier, plus it's a lot simpler for new players/members.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 13, 2013, 09:01:37 AM
I still play every day. There are so many things I don't like at the moment but it's still a dream came true. If it doesn't improve eventually I'll get really bored but for some reason I keep playing every day and I can't think of any other game that has kept my interest for this long in the last five years.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 13, 2013, 01:54:04 PM
New UI screen. With more colour coding for weapon types.

(http://i.imgur.com/m9YIpym.jpg)


EDIT: Also, this has been officially said.

Quote
This is coming with the new lobby system (yet to be fully revealed). Players will be able to bring a bunch of mechs with them in their own DropShip. They will also be able to vote for the map to be played, and be able to select from the mechs available to them in their DropShip.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 13, 2013, 02:18:49 PM
That's utterly fuckstupid.  No way at all certain maps will never get played in that scenario.   :uhrr:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Llyse on May 13, 2013, 02:29:58 PM
Mech sniper has subsided a little.  I'm noticing that a lot of players are being much more sneaky and that teams of 'Pure' Snipers are actually getting owned quite hard.  No, the real problem with the current state of play is how nasty these sniper mechs can be up close - They are just as dangerous, if not more so.  That's the real imbalance here.  If I'm sitting with tons of short range weapons at a 58 damage loadout, I'm just as likely to die versus the current Gauss/PPC/AC build who's nasty from miles away, but will still core me when I lurch into their view.


Definitely the same complaint I have, I can catch the bad snipers from behind and take them out but good ones just smash you down with the ER PPC no bother. Would more heat on the ER PPC help? I just don't know


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on May 13, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
More heat would certainly help.  I don't run 6PPCs because I don't like waiting that long between shots, but I'm eeking towards doing it just so I have high enough alpha to fuck whoever I see.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 13, 2013, 02:58:08 PM
That mechlab is horrid.

Edit :  And what's the 4th Hardpoint ???


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: schpain on May 13, 2013, 04:07:54 PM
That mechlab is horrid.

Edit :  And what's the 4th Hardpoint ???

Agreed - what's the orange A?  AMS?


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Shannow on May 13, 2013, 05:03:40 PM
That's utterly fuckstupid.  No way at all certain maps will never get played in that scenario.   :uhrr:

Then they can make better maps or edit existing ones based upon that data


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on May 14, 2013, 07:51:35 AM
Could we be seeing the first bash at Clan Omni-hardpoints ?


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Yegolev on May 16, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
I'd like my friends list a lot better if people still played this game.

Seems to require too much social interaction. Or a mic.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 17, 2013, 12:46:19 AM
'Mech quirks.

(http://i.imgur.com/EoyBTCo.jpg)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Slayerik on May 17, 2013, 07:51:27 AM
I'd like my friends list a lot better if people still played this game.

Seems to require too much social interaction. Or a mic.

Hey, I bought a headset (with mic) weeks ago :P


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Yegolev on May 17, 2013, 09:30:12 AM
I'd like my friends list a lot better if people still played this game.

Seems to require too much social interaction. Or a mic.

Hey, I bought a headset (with mic) weeks ago :P

More to do with wife aggro than owning a mic.  I can't be yelling at people. :grin:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 29, 2013, 03:40:03 PM
On social tools:

Quote
We're going to be posting some WIP shots shortly. Social is a big term, that means a lot of different things to different players. Internally we have split this concept into multiple aspects - associations (groups, factions, merc units, none), and communication (channels and private messages), being the two largest buckets.

The first WIP will deal with the later, featuring more about the interfaces to communicate with other players, regardless of association. ETA later this week.

Thanks again for all the great feedback. We're integrating as much of the bigger concepts as possible for UI 2.0.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2013, 02:32:31 PM
Social tools. Friends list, chat, channels, etc.



(http://i.imgur.com/djnStPs.jpg)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2013, 02:37:40 PM
From the recent Dev Q&A:

Quote
Harmin: Could we have an indicator in the friends list if someone listed there is currently grouped or not? Perhaps even a looking-for-group indicator flag they can toggle?

A: With UI 2.0 yes.



Zwanglos: Will there eventually be the ability, in 8-mans/12-mans, to pre-assign lances before even pressing the Launch button? Will premades (esp. 8-mans/12-mans when that comes) be able to see mechs listed in the Group tab? Could the UI automatically tally the max weight of the entire group?

A: Yes! And yes! We’re going to be showing of the new group/pre-launch (lobby) screens very soon.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on June 06, 2013, 01:34:43 AM
More work in progress pictures. I especially like what I see in the last one.


(http://i.imgur.com/ZTUmcYP.jpg)

The above screen shot demonstrates some of the channel functionality. NOTE: THE ACTUAL CHANNELS ARE PLACE HOLDER.



(http://i.imgur.com/rv4HV3i.jpg)

Here you can see some improvements to the chat window - timestamp and user name. Along with a VERY early work in progress group interface window.



(http://i.imgur.com/cSH4Y3H.jpg)

Graphical Group view - note the DropShip icon. This allows players to see what BattleMechs our are bringing to the fight.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on June 06, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
Dropship inspect functionality. With future game updates, players will be able to bring a number of mechs with them to the battlefield. This inspect tool allows leaders and players to quickly see what they have at their disposal. More info will be released in the future about this new lobby functionality.

(http://i.imgur.com/G1IUZ3K.jpg)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 05, 2013, 03:37:25 AM
"Early public tests in late September/October. Delivery around the end of October or Early November".

I am honestly really shocked and mad at PGI for the first time. This is insanely ridiculous. I know they did their best (who doesn't?) but obviously they have a serious shortage of talented engineers (apparently there's 4 engineers and 2 artists working on UI 2.0 and have been working on it for at least four months). So I am not even mad at them for failing to deliver, because I truly believe whoever was working there did their best, but for failing to hire people good enough to do what is STANDARD for any game of this kind way before launch (usually similar games like World of Tanks/Planes, Warthunder, Star Conflict  -all developed in Russia- got into beta with a million times better UI). Damn it, hire a Russian and whatever secret know-how they hide if that is what it takes to make a decent interface in less than a year.

Listen to this podcast for the whole bunch of excuses.

http://www.nogutsnogalaxy.net/forum/index.php/topic,922.0.html

This is a fiasco of massive proportion considering the game is being 'launched' with pretty much the same pathetic placeholder UI it had when it was in closed Alpha.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: satael on September 05, 2013, 05:49:00 AM
I really thought they'd launch with atleast the new UI when they decided to launch before implementing CW but I guess we should be happy that they are planning to add the UI this year...  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Der Helm on September 05, 2013, 06:02:01 AM
I really thought they'd launch with atleast the new UI when they decided to launch before implementing CW but I guess we should be happy that they are planning to add the UI this year...  :oh_i_see:
I would not bet on that.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 05, 2013, 06:07:29 AM
I've been defending them for a long time, based on the fact that I still love the core game and that I was pretty sure some of the major features were coming with launch.

This is where they lose me.

This 'launch' makes no sense and the bottom line is that in 13 months since the beginning of the beta they didn't add a single thing to support the meta-game, no rankings, no corps, no chat, no factions, no statistics, no achievements, and not a decent UI that allows me to pick a 'mech among my 30+ without going insane every time. Bryan's interview is disgusting because he doesn't have the good taste to shut his mouth about "the store" features that have been holding UI 2.0 behind, and his lack of perception about how majorly damaging for the game is to release with the ALPHA UI is disturbing.

The game will be torched by the press at launch and reviews will butcher it, and I could be wrong here but I am pretty sure having a decent UI that doesn't look ten years old would have helped its chances at least a bit.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Shannow on September 05, 2013, 06:14:22 AM
<If I could find it this is where I would repost that list of PGI's games and their metacritics scores.>

Jeez if they've lost Falcon then it must be really bad.

I would seriously be ok with this game if I didn't take 85% of damage taken to my CT. I still think something is fucked up there.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 05, 2013, 06:18:35 AM
Let me put it this way:

They come up witha GREAT game in alpha state in August 2012.

At launch, September 2013, the game is still in that Alpha state. It is the alpha I've enjoyed the most in my entire life, but that's what it is. So 'featurelss' that it cannot be really called a beta by common standards (I am sure it can by technical ones).

I am not gonna quit playing right now, because I still enjoy the combat (every night), but this is a hard blow because by the time they will add everything pretty much everyone will be completely burned out with it.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Shannow on September 05, 2013, 07:05:53 AM
Yeah, that's why I only dip my toe in the water every so often. I want to avoid the burnout before I can, potentially, really enjoy the game. Also would be helped by joining a clan that is actually active too.

On a lighter note, realized I have 11k MC still lying around and bought myself a Victor last night. Have thoughts of fitting 3 UAC 5s on it for funs, but had a good enough time tottering around meatcannoning ppl. There is nothing as satisfying as landing AC20 hits in this game.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 05, 2013, 07:09:34 AM
Agree on the AC20, the POOOOM is orgamisc. It's the first thing I slapped on my Onion right after the patch. The Victor is a really good 'mech, one of my friends melts faces with it regularly.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: satael on September 05, 2013, 09:11:53 AM
My favorite right now is Muromets with 2* lbx10 and 2* flamer (+tag). Stupidly fun :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 05, 2013, 09:17:43 AM
Flamers? Do they do anything beyond chuckles?


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: satael on September 05, 2013, 09:30:12 AM
Flamers? Do they do anything beyond chuckles?

They are useless but lbx+flamer combo iseems to be confusing as hell for most enemies :grin:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 06, 2013, 02:22:45 AM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/MWO%20Ekman%20launch.jpg)


This guy is clearly an idiot. "Reviews"? Fuck, I wonder if he believes that shit. IF he does, I'd love to see his face on September 18th.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Merusk on September 06, 2013, 05:59:57 AM
They mean the reviews they paid for in the few magazines still out there are due to publish that month.

In the end it's all down to marketing, as they would have set those reviews up as well.  If you haven't realized it yet, Marketing drives this particular boat in a very, very big way.  That's why you continue to see new Premiums on a regular basis and new chassis (which drive MC sales) but little else.  All time is spent feeding those dev. interests.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: HaemishM on September 06, 2013, 09:35:41 AM
I love how the day after launch is no different than the day before. Yeah, because what are customer expectations?

I'm glad I never spent a dime on this one.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 06, 2013, 09:41:48 AM
But you will in the future, because in about three years (four?) this is gonna be awesome!


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: HaemishM on September 06, 2013, 09:47:03 AM
I'd rather spend that time building my own goddamn mech. I'd probably get it done quicker with more features.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 10, 2013, 01:40:15 AM
I think there's something seriously wrong with Bryan Ekman's head.

Say you are in trouble, as your UI 2.0 is being delayed again and again and your community is at war. So you decide to throw them a bone hoping to chill them out, and share a few screen shots from the upcoming reworked UI. You would choose a nice screenshot, one that looks pretty, looks functional, looks exciting, wouldn't you? Yeah, well, clearly you are not Bryan Ekman. The guy who chooses two screens with a stupid useless resolution of 5700x1200, where "buy" and "store" are pretty much the only visible keywords, and where no new features are even hinted about.

:facepalm:



(Here's the original links if you wanna try and get a better view - http://i.imgur.com/vdGTL0u.jpg - http://i.imgur.com/QxygBoF.jpg )






Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 11, 2013, 03:42:17 PM
UI 2.0 Engineering History Lesson (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/135546-ui20-engineering-history-lesson/), by Sean Cove (UI Dev).


Quote
Summary:

UI 2.0 was not only a redesign, but a reengineering of the whole UI system that drives it. Named UI 2.0, but it is the third iteration of the UI, along with UI 1.0, and UI 1.5. To help understand why with UI 2.0 we decided to do a full rebuild of the UI, I need to tell you a little about UI 1.0 and UI 1.5 first.


History:

UI 1.0 was an iteration that much of the general public didn't get to see. It was largely placeholder work to prototype the large grand design of the UI. Many features were stubbed in and non-functional, but it served to show the flow of the final product. This early UI contained stubs for things like Merc Corp management, an Inner Sphere map and a Leaderboard, all of which were non-functional, but you could navigate and see what could be there in the future.

UI 1.0 was also used as a sandbox, for we hadn’t worked with Crytek, or Scaleform UI technologies. We were learning what features Scaleform supports of Flash, and how it differs. Learning how Crytek’s code interfaces with Scaleform, and how to setup the flash screen assets, and communicate with them from C++ layers. It was a prototype build not a generic re-usable system. Only the smallest of flash assets were reusable, such as buttons, display lists, and other components that make up a screen. Much of the C++ code and Actionscript driving the screen layers were built to function for a specific design.

Up To Now:

Then we started work on the current UI in the game, UI 1.5. UI 1.5 has been the version that has gone through the most iteration, beginning with stripping out, and disabling stubbed screens, and reworking many of the existing functional screens. Using the base of UI 1.0, and what we learned about Crytek and Scaleform, to create a few central systems and centralize more of the code. During the course of UI 1.5 much of the Flash layer was rebuilt to fit the new look, leaving the C++ layer much untouched, for it was mostly used to manage and store data from the User and backend database.

Throughout the beta tests, many of the flash screens would go through much iteration. One example being the Mechlab, where in the beginning, all you could change were weapons, armour points, and the engine. There was no upgrade system (artemis, armour type, heat sink types), no paint scheme customization, and no engine heat sinks. The Mechlab must have changed at least once a month, though not all of it visible to the end user. This left the Mechlab code in a bit of a Frankenstein state, having gone through many iterations, with new features and multiple systems talking to each other to manage all the data. So when design started talking about a new UI, a UI 2.0, we jumped at the idea to reengineer the UI systems we were using.


Where We're Going:

Much of the reengineering started before the design of UI 2.0 was complete. Over the course of a few months, a handful of engineers rewrote many of the core systems, with the goal to data drive as much as possible and be able to run as much of the logic for the UI in C++ rather than on the Flash side with Actionscript.

We structured the new system to make the Flash side completely reusable, it became a data display system - with a little screen logic - making it possible to reuse Flash assets in full. Screens became a Flash layer, with a C++ driver layer that can be changed independent of the Flash asset. To accomplish this we centralized many of the systems that were in UI 1.5 into one or more sub systems that were common to all screens. This also reduced the amount of work required to bring a screen online. This has allowed UI 2.0 to separate from the effects of taking new engine drops from Crytek, changes in our backend and gameplay systems without having to change any screen logic, for the UI central system is the only piece of code that talks to and is aware of the systems underneath.

In UI 1.5, many of the screens were directly talking to these systems, which meant that if any of them changed in a major way, the UI would have to be adjusted to bring the UI online again. With all this in place, it leaves us with less maintenance work and allows us to focus more on usability of the UI, rather than keeping it functional.

UI 2.0 was a return to square one, using our better understanding of the systems involved; we rebuilt the foundation of the UI to better support the product as we continue to develop features. The new foundation is more flexible and less specialized, allowing the Designers and Artists the ability to work free of as many limitations as possible.

It would be great if any of you had any knowledge of what he's talking about to comment about it. Unfortunately it is rocket science to me so I have no idea if what he says makes any kind of sense or shows his lack of talent.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Goreschach on September 11, 2013, 05:05:43 PM
To put it siimply, the original UI was basically a placeholder and the reason UI2 has taken so long is because they had to completely rewrite all the code for it.

Answering whether or not this is a good thing or if it shows a lack of capability is deceptively complex. If you've ever payed any attention to the game development subforum here, you'll probably have seen people mentioning the value of early prototyping. Ignoring most software development methodology arguments(which is largely a liliputian war), there is a number of good advantages to early prototyping.

If you have no knowledge of programming, all you really need to understand is that doing software design the fast and easy way isn't the same thing as doing it the right way. Usually, if you want to get something up and running, you can typically get the system up and running rather quickly. However, this hacky system will have a number of problems, and it will start complaining or just fail to work whenever you change anything it talks to. This means you will need to go back and tweak and change your system whenever anyone changes some other part of the game. This was UI 1.

A good system lives in it's own little bubble, and doesn't really care what happens elsewhere. This takes longer to develop, but there is far less maintenance to deal with. The fast way, as mentioned above, takes less time to implement but will eventually require more total time due to all the work and code rewrite needed to keep it running as the entire program evolves. A well designed system needs very little work after it has been finished. This will be UI 2.

When game developers talk about 'early prototyping' they are taking about this problem. Early prototyping is the idea that you lower total production cost or time by making a 'preview' version of a game. This preview version isn't like a game demo, rather, it's essentially the entire game design(minus most content) made out of quick, crappy systems that are only intended to get up and running immediately. The main advantage of this is that you can get something resembling your game up ASAP, and you don't have to wait for two years to spot any major top level design failures that keep the game from working as it should or simply keep it from being fun.

The downside is that you have have to go into early prototyping 100% committed to tearing out all of this crappy early work and rebuilding everything, correctly, from the ground up. This is often a hard sell, because once you have something up and running, people will balk when you tell them to delete it all and start all over. They will wan to 'fix it'. After all, it's just code, and you can simply delete lines and write new lines. Those old lines are gone, they won't just sneak back in. The problem with this idea, however, is that 'fixing it' is exactly the problem that prevents you from using the fast, hacky code. Once you have a program sitting on a crappy, unstable base, you will spend forever fixing it. Only terrible designers will make a crappy, unstable base, and then try to tweak and fix it into shipping code. This is what PGI did. This is UI 1.5.

PGI made quick, crappy code, and then instead of tearing it out and starting over, they dragged it along trying to polish a turd. Did they start out on the assumption that they were prototyping? Maybe. Maybe they got lazy and decided the prototype was 'good enough to fix'. Maybe management didn't want to spare the time to rewrite something already there. Maybe PGI just isn't very good and their crappy UI 1 really was supposed to be production code. It doesn't matter. They are now, apparently, doing the right thing in rewriting a system that needs to be rewritten.

The problem is that they have blown a ton of time trying to maintain a crappy system that they should have torn down and rewritten a year ago. Look at all the UI bugs they've had. Random, unpredictable things, caused by ugly lists of pointers floating about, referencing systems talking to systems, talking to systems. A system so large nobody unstands how it works. A design so complicated it took a guy that programmed it an entire page just to explain what the WWWWWWWW problem was. Judging by the way bugs seem to keep lingering in this game for months at a time, only to be briefly fixed and then pop up again a few patches later, I'd say the entire project is like the UI. Crappy. The entire game is most likely a prototype, and it needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

Too bad it's launching next week.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Hoax on September 11, 2013, 09:13:03 PM
Good post/10, thanks for taking the time with that.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on September 12, 2013, 12:19:12 AM
Yes, thanks a lot Goreschach, your post is what I was hoping for and much much more.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 21, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Recorded demonstration of the UI 2.0 (http://www.twitch.tv/bryanekman/b/472237522). It looks nice but... so many placeholders.  :ye_gods:

EDIT: At 22:17 you can actually see a teaser of the moon map, coming in December.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Shannow on October 22, 2013, 04:18:38 AM
moon map looks kinda awesome...do we get low grav rules?..:D


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: eldaec on October 22, 2013, 05:02:35 AM
Also, ambient temp -273?


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Sir T on October 22, 2013, 05:03:59 AM
We don't need no stinking heatsinks!!


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 22, 2013, 05:36:13 AM
No gravity changes. They said so multiple times.

I also think it looks fantastic. So Aliens, among other things.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Ironwood on October 22, 2013, 06:08:37 AM
Also, ambient temp -273?

This map was already in one of the Mechwarrior games, as I recall.  Had strange gravity and the heat was awesome.  (also, do you think gravity being weird would affect ballistics ?  Always wondered about that...)

As I got Terra Therma last night, all I could think about was 'MORE MAPS PLEASE'.  Launching the galaxy nonsense with this shit would be bad.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Shannow on October 22, 2013, 06:09:20 AM
Howabout vacumn rules? What you lost all the armor on your CT?...oh sorry bye bye CT!

Heh.

edit: I got terra therma 3 maps in a row last night.  FUCK THAT.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 22, 2013, 06:22:29 AM
Anyway, moon base (or actually "HyperPulse Generator Manifold", which is the actual name) will hit with the first patch of December. And then "jungle map" in February.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: eldaec on October 23, 2013, 02:10:44 PM
Weird gravity should impact ballistics.

If you fire a bullet out of a barrel straight and level it will initially rise as for reasons no-one fully understands it generates lift. As the bullet slows, lift reduces and trajectory drops. Low gravity should impact that curve. But the curve doesn't exist in mechwarrior.

Lift also requires a atmosphere ofc. No atmosphere should eliminate lift but also drag.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Typhon on October 24, 2013, 05:55:47 AM
Do slugs experience lift?  Or just bullets with angular momentum?


Edit: it's early, this is a dumb question - I was thinking some strange coriolis interaction changing the angle of the bullet but "just as the bullet leaves the barrel" and not "kilometers after the bullet leaves the barrel" make this line of thought dumb.  Sorry. 

I don't think bullets experience any lift after leaving the barrel, probably a folklore/perception thing to do with the arc that the bullet flies along and correction for that arc with the aiming of the barrel.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: eldaec on October 24, 2013, 06:09:29 AM
I guess they must at least generate Coanda and flat plate lift as soon as gravity pulls them out of a zero angle of attack.

Most bulllets are fired at a low enough altitude to also benefit from ground effect.

So "I guess so" but whether it's the same lift I have no idea.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 29, 2013, 12:52:08 AM
UI 2.0 is on the Public Test Server today.
To say that looks like it's a fucking pre-alpha version that is MONTHS away from being ready for live deployement would be an understatement. According to what Ekman said in September, UI 2.0 was going to be launched (not tested) by the beginning of November. These people are YEARS behind their schedules, it is between pathetic and ridiculous. It's proving harder and longer for them to make a new interface than to make a new game.

Quote
Hello MechWarriors!

You've heard about our progress on UI2.0 and we're so excited that we wanted to bring you an Alpha PREVIEW of our current build.

As you may know, we've been reviewing a slew of feedback from our Command Chair Updates which has been extremely well-received by our team. Thank you for taking the time to express your vision for UI 2.0, we're ready to move forward with construction.

This UI 2.0 build is a work in progress. We're releasing this early access build to ensure that our most dedicated players have the chance to try it out and provide feedback while elements are still in production. Internally, our testers have identified a variety of issues that we're already working on. We value your feedback on functionality and screen presentation. Please feel free to leave your feedback in the Public Test Forums.

There's still a lot to do! Please take a moment to join us in this exciting preliminary test.

Patch Notes

Notes:
In this build you can:
Access the new UI
Mech Lab
Customize a mech’s weapon + equipment + armor
Weapon and Mech Tool Tips
Save loadout
Work in Progress:
NO paint scheme customization
NO module add on
NO COMPARE functionality
NO Social functionality


Settings

Skill Tree
Only Mech Tree
Work In Progress:
NO Pilot Tree


Upon log-in, we provide users with following:

All 4 Founders `Mechs
Sarah's `Mech
All 4 Phoenix `Mechs (Overlord Package)
50,000 MC
500,000,000 C-Bills
1,000,000 GXP


You CANNOT launch into a match
But you can goto Testing Ground


Known Issues:

Sometimes the FE will get stuck at saving state while a user clicks on checkout during Mech customization
Client will crash when closed
Client may crash if Options, Loadout and Skill menus are visited in the same session
Client will crash if internet connection is lost whilst in tutorials
All menus do not adjust to all resolution changes.
Tabbing back and forth from the Mech Lab and Skills tabs causes the Mech skill list to not load properly
When launching Testing Grounds, users will not launch into their chosen map
The price of a Mech Bay is not currently displayed
Tab is currently non-functional at the login screen
Typing a comma into the login page generates an 'unknown error' message.
A placeholder message will be seen when attempting login whilst servers are offline
Logging out may lead to a black, unresponsive screen
Buttons that direct to website links do not work


Features Not Yet Completed:

Legend for hardpoints and item restrictions icons
Cannot see loadout and hardpoints available of `Mechs before a `Mech purchase is made.
Checks for engine and heatsinks are not made to ensure a viable `Mech is saved.
Options (now SETTINGS): joystick support is missing
Options: Vsync is missing
`Mech upgrades are not implemented


Quote
Oct 29th 2013
Focus: Early Preview of UI 2.0
Morning Test: 10am-12pm PST
Afternoon Test: 4:00pm - 6:00pm PST


You can download the client here : http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/126210-welcome-to-the-public-test-program/ (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/126210-welcome-to-the-public-test-program/)


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 29, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
Ok, I am fiddling around with this, and while, as anticipated, nothing works, I gotta say that it looks and feels prety darn good. Nothing like finally seeing your own 'mechs in all their glory. Plus lots of other little touches. While depressed for the endless delays, I gotta say this is really nice.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Sir T on October 30, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
Do you think this will be ready by the end of the year?


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 30, 2013, 06:16:24 PM
I would be surprised. I think it won't be ready, no. Too many missing features. If they weren't confident enough to show them, knowing how hungry the community is for it, I have to assume they are really behind schedule.

But again, the little I saw is much prettier than it looked in all the videos.


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Sir T on October 30, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
Consider me  :cry:


Title: Re: UI 2.0
Post by: Falconeer on October 30, 2013, 06:26:00 PM
Me too, man. Me too. I am so fucking bored of waiting.