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f13.net General Forums => Guild Wars 2 => Topic started by: murdoc on November 12, 2012, 12:32:49 PM



Title: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 12, 2012, 12:32:49 PM
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/#lost-shores-weekend-event

Kicks off 12pm PST on Friday with an event and continues through the weekend. New map, new multi-tiered dungeon, new sPvP map and... new tier of gear?

Quote
New Item Quality Level - Ascended
While it remains to be seen exactly how many new items are being added in terms of new weapon or armor sets, we do know that a new quality level is being introduced: Ascended. This will be one step higher than exotic quality items, so it will be interesting to see how that impacts gearing up at level 80. As things stand currently, level 80 rares are basically something you only equip while piecing together an exotic set, and from there most people either salvage them for ectos or sell them on the trading post.

Hopefully the ascended gear will be somewhat difficult to obtain, otherwise it might end up greatly devaluing exotics moving forward. New items are also supposed to be hitting the current dungeon vendors, so I'm also curious to see how that will fit into the bigger itemization picture. According to ArenaNet, this new item quality is intended to help give the endgame a more distinct sense of progression, so I'd imagine that there won't be a massive amount of ascended gear hitting the live game right away either way.

It's also worth noting that with the update there will be a new resource to harvest, along with 200 new crafting recipes being added. Presumably these will be focused on the ascended quality level as well, so it will be interesting to see how expensive the new recipes will be to create given the current high production costs on exotic gear.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/previews/lost-shores-preview

Trying not to kneejerk until more details are out, but 3 months in and already possible powercreep and gear grind? That's where I will check out.

Looks like I'll miss most of the event too since I'm at work when it kicks off and my weekend playtime is spotty at best.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 12, 2012, 01:00:18 PM
Already having trouble logging in for anything but WvW.  Now I have a dungeon grind to get geared for WvW again? Fuck You!


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 12, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
I really hope this 'better armor' thing is just some PR monkey messing up, and not a sign of things to come - another site says ascended is supposed to be "between exotic and legendary" when legendaries have the same stats as exotics. Wut?

Also, infusion aka one of the worst things in GW1? Come on.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on November 12, 2012, 01:12:23 PM
I guess I should be thankful they are offering a clear cut reason for me to stop playing wvw (and gw2 in general) as I have no interest in dungeons  :uhrr:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 02:15:54 PM
I'll wait and see but after dropping 250k karma and probably 20 gold on getting all exoticed up and transmuted to the look I want, getting a new gear tier dumped on me would pretty much kill this for me. I would be surprised if they're stupid enough to add an actual stat difference this soon, though.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 12, 2012, 02:25:27 PM
That was one thing I really liked about gw1, the gear ceiling once you hit 20.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 02:26:43 PM
Yeah and a reasonably attainable stat cap is tremendously important for WvW balance.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 12, 2012, 02:40:31 PM
I'm still shaking my head how anyone at Arenanet would think this to be a good thing. According to one of the CMs on the official forums, they're preparing a blog post to offer some explanation. Really hoping it turns out the "better than exotic" thing is just a miscommunication, or they come to their senses (as they did with legendaries - originally legendary weapons had better stats too, but they changed them to be equal to exotics).


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 12, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
Just the fact that they realize they need to come out with a blog post to explain things is sorta  :facepalm:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 02:57:11 PM
Eh, well, they can't shoulder all the blame for 3rd party preview sites being retarded, if that's indeed what all this turns out to be.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 12, 2012, 03:31:08 PM
At this point it's all speculation, but this makes sense to me:

Quote
Ascended ITEMS with Infusion slots. These are whole new gear pieces people, NOT a new tier of armor. kitten the new dungeon deals with “fractals” that get harder the more you go in. Anyone think that maybe, just maybe, these new “ascended Items” are just gear pieces made for this particular dungeon (and likely for similar future dungeons), where you might have to upgrade your “infusions” based on certain fractals?
That actually sounds pretty cool. It’s basically a form of progression that isn’t necessary, but gives a reason to keep re-doing this dungeon.
Want to complete the dungeon once?
Cool, you can. You don’t need Ascended gear or Infusions to do it. You finished, have fun.
Want to run it multiple times and challenge yourself with higher difficulty each time?
Cool, go for it. Make sure you have your Ascended item and the proper Infusion.
This literally helps both sides of this coin. If you like to grind and like to max stats, you can grind the fractals till they become so difficult you start to bleed from the ears, and you can min-max on the infusions to your hearts content. If you just like to experience content once or twice you can run this dungeon a few times do that and you’ll have no issues with it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 12, 2012, 03:45:31 PM
That's interesting. Good for players who like doing that kind of thing. This game, like WoW, was always going to need multiple endgames. If what you quoted is correct, it's a much less resource-intensive way of handling the gear grind than WoW's mulitple zone progressions did. Plus, their engine can handle this kind of thing easier, being all dynamic down to the loot tables off plants and stuff  :grin:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 03:49:38 PM
If they do something like that, they really need to make the extra stats only affect you in that specific content.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 12, 2012, 04:00:23 PM
They could easily do the fractals or whatever line the useless +% vs ____ sigils. They'd be stupid to actually add a new tier of gear and add creep. The "progression" wording terrifies me though. Please don't fuck up like that, ANet.

So a new gear slot on "Ascended" armor, that only applies inside a certain dungeon would be okay with me. But still kinda seems like it adds nothing to the gameplay.

I'd far prefer to fear early expansion plans, or new weapon sets for the classes instead of "new armor tier!"


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 12, 2012, 04:21:10 PM
I don't think whatever this new gear is will actually affect me. But, why are some of you against this even if it is a post-Legendary or between Exotic-Legendary gearset? Is it because it's too soon to obsolete current Exotics and Legendaries because it will break the economy? Just curious.

It feels to me like it would be too fast to obsolete the Legendaries. But then I have no idea how many people are kitted in Exoctics and visiting the Forge every day.

Also wondering about this new resource and 200 new recipes. We talking across all professions or also a new profession?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 04:25:24 PM
I'm against it because in order for WvW to function as anything resembling a level playing field, character stats need to have a cap that is vaguely reasonable for most players to obtain. Exotics are just barely that.

If these are a work-in-dungeon-only local gear grind I don't care at all, though.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 12, 2012, 04:44:32 PM
I don't think whatever this new gear is will actually affect me. But, why are some of you against this even if it is a post-Legendary or between Exotic-Legendary gearset? Is it because it's too soon to obsolete current Exotics and Legendaries because it will break the economy? Just curious.

It feels to me like it would be too fast to obsolete the Legendaries. But then I have no idea how many people are kitted in Exoctics and visiting the Forge every day.

Also wondering about this new resource and 200 new recipes. We talking across all professions or also a new profession?

Legendaries and Exotics have the same damage/stats.

I completely with Ingmar on this, if these are an in-dungeon only thing, I don't care one whit.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 12, 2012, 05:01:31 PM
Yeah, even if you add progression raiding, you'd just need to stat cap heavily in PVP. There's already too much of a difference in rare vs exotic for my tastes.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 12, 2012, 05:54:53 PM
Legendaries and Exotics have the same damage/stats.
Wait, what?

So the only reason to go Legendary is for the appearance?

Granted, that's a good reason, but not at the cost of so many resources. I thought Legendaries had far superior something beyond vanity.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 05:59:15 PM
Nope. They're prestige only.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 12, 2012, 09:41:06 PM
I must applaud a.net at exposing a bunch of fashionfags in my guild.
The amount of people purchasing gold just to craft Legendaries amused me to no end.
And everytime they want past people, they'd deliberately autoattack just to get noticed.
And the noobs in the guild would not believe me when I told them Legendaries stats are equal to exotics.
Fucking sheeples.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on November 13, 2012, 12:36:47 AM
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/ (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/)

Seems like ascended gear is undeniably better than the current best (exotic) gear.
Plus you have both offensive and defensive infusions and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some infusions that were a general upgrade to your stats.
Didn't take long for Arenanet to give up on the idea of limiting the geargrind to just cosmetic upgrades :heartbreak:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 13, 2012, 12:47:35 AM
So they introduce strictly-better gear (omg it's purplez! literally!) AND go back on their earlier decision about legendaries being equal to exotics?

Nice.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 12:54:37 AM
95% chance of ragequit here. They could salvage it by saying 'oh and WvW auto scales everyone to full ascended level gear'.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 13, 2012, 02:11:22 AM
The only silver lining I see is that ascended armor (probably) won't have rune slots, so you'd have to give up your set bonuses to use them.

Also, is it just me, or is the 'agony' / 'infusion' thing eerily similar to the Radiance grind (LOTRO) or farming Nature Resist for huhuran (vanilla WOW)?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 02:58:20 AM
You're assuming they won't just have set infusions instead, though. Hard to say for now I guess.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on November 13, 2012, 03:50:05 AM
The only silver lining I see is that ascended armor (probably) won't have rune slots, so you'd have to give up your set bonuses to use them.

The ring in the example is a better version of the exotic that has the exotic gem attached to it (which is "the rune" for jewellery) and has an additional infusion slot.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 13, 2012, 03:56:06 AM
Yeah, I noticed that - but that's for accessories. There are so many armor runes that they'd need to come up with a LOT of armor variations if they want to bake it into the armor itself*, or they'd just stick to a handful of rune options.

To reiterate, though, this is a shitty shitty design decision, and it flies in the face of what the game is about.


* This already exists for some items. See Mhenlo's Armor: it has a superior Dwayna rune built in, but it doesn't have an upgrade slot


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Mattemeo on November 13, 2012, 08:03:56 AM
The way I'm reading this (or at least, choosing to) is that the Ascended gear has marginally better straight stats than Exotic gear but is balanced by having Infusion slots instead of Upgrade slots. The Infusion slots exist purely to counteract Agony, which is (and I sincerely hope remains) an NPC/Mob condition that won't be available to players and therefore won't affect PvP/WvW. The Infusion items, if ANet have any goddamn sense at all, will be beneficial purely for these Fractal dungeons but remain close enough to Exotics stats-wise that you might not bother swapping armours out to play standard PvE etc. Another caveat to wearing Ascended items may be that you won't have access to set bonuses. I'd probably be happiest if the Ascended gear was kept strictly to non-aesthetic items; ie the accessory slots (with the exception of the back slot which you can see if you choose to display it). That way the standard visual gear implementation in the game remains as it always was - hard stat ceiling aesthetic prestige.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 13, 2012, 08:23:04 AM
Those dungeons might be pretty fun.  Looking forward to it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 13, 2012, 08:46:39 AM
I figured the backslot would be the first part of the Ascended gear as I don't think that there's any Exotic back pieces yet and nothing better than the not-worth 5g stats of the the guild backpack. Hopefully it's a cloak and not another backpack.

The big things for me will be how hard they are to obtain - I have both heavy and medium armour crafting maxed and hope I don't have to go back and level it some more and how they balance it for WvW. Hopefully the new resource nodes are in more places than the new Lost Shores zone/dungeon, but I had a hard enough time collecting the Orichalcum (I lucked out and got 80 ore from zone completions) or I'd never have been able to craft my gear.

I was pretty pissed about this yesterday, but today I've become more 'meh' as there is a ton of other games sitting on my PC that I haven't touched if this turns into a grind to be competitive.

If they add new weapons to each class that includes Agony conditions I will ragequit though.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 13, 2012, 09:42:22 AM
I can promise you that Agony will be PvE only. They didn't give the Mursaat touch of death to people in PvP in GW1, they won't here, either. Plus, remember what's being said about the stat differential: the slot in the new gear is to mitigate Agony, not boost stats through the roof. I'm not seeing the WvW balance issue here; hell, having WvW open to lower levels boosting is a bigger potential balance issue than this.

Deep breath...


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 13, 2012, 10:41:59 AM
Ya, I was totally thinking that glass cannon builds needed to 8% stronger.  Fuck you A.net.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 13, 2012, 11:22:56 AM
You know, there's nothing saying that all of these Ascended sets won't have Magic Find as a stat, like what was in their example.  The boosted primary stats would kind of offset the added magic find, plus then the slot for only Agony related things.  If it's a step between exotic and legendaries, but has MF as a required stat, that won't screw over wvw balance, but will be nice for the dungeon grinders.  I'd just chill until we see what comes out of the update.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Brogarn on November 13, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
Right now I think the dungeons in this game are as fun as getting punched in the dick. This being the internet, I should clarify that I don't enjoy that. I'm hoping that the new dungeon is fun, if so, this gear grind/content cock block won't really have an affect on me. If not, I'm considering going back to Rift. While I'm primarily a WvW player, I like the occasional PvE and kicking back with some friends in a dungeon. Rift has that same gear grind but their dungeons are pretty fun and I like the world better.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 13, 2012, 12:13:28 PM
I've actually come to really like the dungeons. Once you get yellow or above gear (I'm still rocking mostly yellows) and have a semi-competent group, they're fast and fun. I do miss the kind of instant gratification which Rift provides in that department, and I also actually like diku play within dungeons, but it's REALLY hard to go back to the accompanying crap (dailies, static combat, mountains of hot keys), as I discovered with the free Rift reactivation.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on November 13, 2012, 12:37:16 PM
I'm only enjoying the dungeons because Sachiel and Selma grabbed myself and Vu to start running them.  We make a good group that can take just about anyone else along in the fifth slot.  Vu and I also run with our tiny little guild, and while we can make it to the end of most, it's just nowhere near as smooth.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 13, 2012, 12:55:00 PM
I'm only enjoying the dungeons because Sachiel and Selma grabbed myself and Vu to start running them.  We make a good group that can take just about anyone else along in the fifth slot.  Vu and I also run with our tiny little guild, and while we can make it to the end of most, it's just nowhere near as smooth.

I'm honestly looking forward to the new dungeons.  I've still only done about 15% of the various explore paths across all the different dungeons.  I ran CoE paths 2 & 3 for the first time this morning on Selma.  Pretty damn fun, but definitely more challenging than AC.  Some of that is probably due to new experience with it and 1/2 the group.  It was definitely more profitable as far as gold goes with the Cores/Lodestones.  Those two runs and I cleared about 4.5-5 gp from 3 core drops and a few yellows -> ectos.  Fun content though, and it was a nice change of scenery.  The only complaint was the flame-shield destroyer where 3 people man lasers and then two just range dps where the boss can't hit them.  Was pretty slow/boring, but they said it's actually faster than running back and forth from the lasers and all 5 damaging the boss and risking getting chucked into the lava with a REALLY long run back from the waypoint. 


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 01:10:18 PM
The way I'm reading this (or at least, choosing to) is that the Ascended gear has marginally better straight stats than Exotic gear but is balanced by having Infusion slots instead of Upgrade slots. The Infusion slots exist purely to counteract Agony, which is (and I sincerely hope remains) an NPC/Mob condition that won't be available to players and therefore won't affect PvP/WvW. The Infusion items, if ANet have any goddamn sense at all, will be beneficial purely for these Fractal dungeons but remain close enough to Exotics stats-wise that you might not bother swapping armours out to play standard PvE etc. Another caveat to wearing Ascended items may be that you won't have access to set bonuses. I'd probably be happiest if the Ascended gear was kept strictly to non-aesthetic items; ie the accessory slots (with the exception of the back slot which you can see if you choose to display it). That way the standard visual gear implementation in the game remains as it always was - hard stat ceiling aesthetic prestige.

I guarantee the infusion slots will have generally useful stats attached in addition to negating Agony.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 13, 2012, 01:13:13 PM
Fuck this.
(http://i.imgur.com/mnk0m.gif)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on November 13, 2012, 03:08:15 PM
I'm honestly looking forward to the new dungeons.
We are, too.  AC is getting old.  4-5 more paths and I'll have Siobhan in all her armor.  Vu has pretty much everything needed.  And with STAR, we're going to be in there a bit longer while the others l2p.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 13, 2012, 05:37:22 PM
I'm only enjoying the dungeons because Sachiel and Selma grabbed myself and Vu to start running them.  We make a good group that can take just about anyone else along in the fifth slot.  Vu and I also run with our tiny little guild, and while we can make it to the end of most, it's just nowhere near as smooth.

QQ, I need to be on more when you run them. I kinda like the dungeons.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: luckton on November 13, 2012, 06:18:35 PM
Trying to dive into all of the GW2 stuff feet first to prep for the trial weekend, and I'm skimming through posts and what-not trying to absorb info.

I can tell there's a lot of angst in this thread.  Could anyone nutshell this for the layman?   :grin:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 13, 2012, 06:25:04 PM
Hmm, Agony/Infusions in a particular dungeon means I probably won't see it until they become common world drops  :oh_i_see:

Nope. They're prestige only.
Ah, that's awesome. Don't need to worry about that then.

I can tell there's a lot of angst in this thread.  Could anyone nutshell this for the layman?   :grin:

From a game play standpoint, you're at least 100 hours away from worrying about anything posted in the last 30 threads on this sub-board. Shit, I'm like 150-whatever hours in and I'm still asking newb questions. I love GW2 like I haven't loved an MMO since the first few months of WoW. This has come closest to giving me everything I want, from 5 minute sessions that have demonstrable rewards all the way to super fluid groups that don't require OCD-levels of attentiveness in four hour blocks.

Outside of that: any specific questions?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 06:26:14 PM
TLDR version:

Everyone expected the GW1 system where the top end gear is essentially a flat cap that never goes up over the life of the game. ArenaNet introduces gear that goes over the established cap a mere 3 months in. Rage ensues.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: luckton on November 13, 2012, 06:33:43 PM
TLDR version:

Everyone expected the GW1 system where the top end gear is essentially a flat cap that never goes up over the life of the game. ArenaNet introduces gear that goes over the established cap a mere 3 months in. Rage ensues.

Ah, I get it.  But then if the top end gear never becomes better than anything else, what's the point of introducing new gear unless it's just cosmetically different?

From a game play standpoint, you're at least 100 hours away from worrying about anything posted in the last 30 threads on this sub-board. Shit, I'm like 150-whatever hours in and I'm still asking newb questions. I love GW2 like I haven't loved an MMO since the first few months of WoW. This has come closest to giving me everything I want, from 5 minute sessions that have demonstrable rewards all the way to super fluid groups that don't require OCD-levels of attentiveness in four hour blocks.

Outside of that: any specific questions?

No, nothing specific.  I'm just intrigued over how angsty it appears people are getting over something.  I'm sure that if I commit and pick this up, by the time I am of level to concern myself over the events of this thread, the matter will probably have resolved itself.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 06:36:33 PM
TLDR version:

Everyone expected the GW1 system where the top end gear is essentially a flat cap that never goes up over the life of the game. ArenaNet introduces gear that goes over the established cap a mere 3 months in. Rage ensues.

Ah, I get it.  But then if the top end gear never becomes better than anything else, what's the point of introducing new gear unless it's just cosmetically different?


WELCOME TO GUILD WARS!

Most of the angst is due to the possible effects of the PVE gear grind on WvW. Note that the ONLY other successful RVR style game, DAOC, also had stat caps. That is not a coincidence.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: luckton on November 13, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
Mmm...DAoC...pretty much my main drive to this game now, as an updated version of that.  Plus an Engineer class with turrets, guns, pyrotechnics, and alchemy?   :heart:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 13, 2012, 06:48:00 PM
No, nothing specific.  I'm just intrigued over how angsty it appears people are getting over something.  I'm sure that if I commit and pick this up, by the time I am of level to concern myself over the events of this thread, the matter will probably have resolved itself.
Ah. Yea I gave up on the idea of one game doing PvP and PvE equally well a decade ago. The one example used to cite doing it right worked well for a market too small to justify a huge development budget.

It's hella easier to maintain revenue flow from new content than from e-Sports PvP. Anet is trying to push for the latter. But unlike the well-proven model of content releases, e-Sports is up against games that already are e-Sports in an industry that's contracting in some parts.

I applaud Anet trying though. Good to have a game that tries to hit more than just one or two types of players, particularly when the engine is so dynamic they can quickly adapt.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 13, 2012, 09:03:39 PM
I'm just not feeling the anger, dudes. The ring they showed was what? +2 on two stats.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 13, 2012, 09:36:09 PM
I'm just not feeling the anger, dudes. The ring they showed was what? +2 on two stats.

+4, IIRC. The issue is that the total comes out to an 8% stat increase when the set is done. Which in RVR turns into "you must raid to pvp"


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 13, 2012, 09:37:13 PM
Quote from: colin johanson
This metric of success impacted a lot of our early content-related design decisions for Guild Wars 2. Some examples include:

    Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

This is what they promised.  This is what they delivered.  This is what they have gone back on.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 09:50:18 PM
I'm just not feeling the anger, dudes. The ring they showed was what? +2 on two stats.

+4, IIRC. The issue is that the total comes out to an 8% stat increase when the set is done. Which in RVR turns into "you must raid to pvp"

This.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 13, 2012, 09:58:11 PM
Not automatically +4, since we don't know what the general set bonus on exotics now versus slot fillers on the new stuff shakes out like.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 13, 2012, 10:58:25 PM
Yea. There's quite a bit of anger for what amounts to a single screenshot  :oh_i_see:

I can't quite see how this game can't have an item progression. Game's so easy almost everyone will be in full exotics by Christmas. Where do you go from there when even someone like me can buy half a set of Mortal right now if someone would just get around to unlocking the damned Cathedral  :grin:

I don't know if they're shocked we're all leveling this fast, if they figured we'd mostly be in WvWvW or if they thought most of the achievers would go back to WoW for Mists or something. But I get the sense that between the e-Sport stuff they launched with the Halloween event and now the Ascended, they're scrambling to keep pace with the players.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 11:30:17 PM
GW1 had no item progression. DAOC had no item progression, until they sort of added one in ToA and everyone agreed it was a horrible idea. It can be done. It *should* be done, for RVR style games.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 13, 2012, 11:46:55 PM
I like how another poster in another forum summed it best.

Quote
Upcoming update will add a new arbitrarily difficult dungeon and new arbitrarily stronger armor that lets you beat the dungeon once you have grinded to get it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 13, 2012, 11:49:23 PM
I'm just not feeling the anger, dudes. The ring they showed was what? +2 on two stats.

+4, IIRC. The issue is that the total comes out to an 8% stat increase when the set is done. Which in RVR turns into "you must raid to pvp"

??

uh...

(https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png)
Are you sure?
Did miss the 18 Prec and 18 Power? Or without the gem, the Exotic alone isn't up to par?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ard on November 14, 2012, 12:41:09 AM
Okay, if we really want to argue about how much the stats matter, we need to point a finger at the real number.  On any gear that has +magic find, that is the primary stat.  The ascended ring is +3% higher, which is actually a really huge number, and makes me worried about how the non-magic find gear stats are scaled.

Edit:
There's also been an official post about the concerns.  The short of it is that they're saying they'll eventually have other avenues for getting ascended gear, including wvwvw, but that doesn't solve the immediate problem any.  They do however have a 130 page thread full of rage on their hands, so I'd like to think they've had their noses rubbed in the problem they created.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 01:10:33 AM
Thing is that 3% difference in magic find, if translated into a non % stat, is a much bigger number. (EDIT: Right, read last post before posting.)

So the non exotic is +5 better on the non main stats, +3% better on the 'main' stat, whatever that works out to being, and then gets whatever the infusion slot gives on top of that. The aggregate difference is going to be quite large when spread across every item slot, with the caveat that it is yet to be determined what the infusion slots will offer in comparison to runes and sigils for weapons and the 6 armor slots.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 14, 2012, 01:40:34 AM
I'm just not feeling the anger, dudes. The ring they showed was what? +2 on two stats.

+4, IIRC. The issue is that the total comes out to an 8% stat increase when the set is done. Which in RVR turns into "you must raid to pvp"

??

uh...


Are you sure?
Did miss the 18 Prec and 18 Power? Or without the gem, the Exotic alone isn't up to par?

I was wrong, it's worth 10 raw stat points, plus whatever the MF translates to (I believe it's about 7 more if it was a real stat instead of MF).

The Ascended stuff's problem is that it's a decent raw stat boost because the ilvl is going up, and the built in runes/gems/whathave you appear to also have gotten an ilvl increase. This is all assuming that Infusions are completely restricted to the new progression content and has absolutely no function outside of it.

So.. basically someone in full Ascended > someone in full Exotics in WvW as it stands. Which is what the fuss is about.

edit: from that link:

Quote
Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

Dear Studio Design Director who has apparently never played Guild Wars 2: calling the jump between Exotic and Legendary "massive" is a bit strange when the jump between Legendary and Ascended is massive, and the jump between Exotic and Legendary is absolutely nothing.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 14, 2012, 02:26:46 AM
They're going to push up Legendary stats to Ascended level though. Argument being : Legendary is and will always be the TOP STAT YOU CAN HAVE ON YOUR EQUIP SLOT.

Ah well, I'm having fun as Engineer now.. healing in instances... chaining around 30 second of regen with Dwayna runes. Was fun farming Ascalon.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2012, 03:40:25 AM
I've pugged a few explorable dungeons (and all storymode dungeons) and didn't find them too hard. They do require a very different approach compared to normal gameplay, though (HUGE emphasis on mass cc/blind and focus fire for trash packs, buffs/personal survival CDs for boss fights, good use of dodge, etc). Also, explorable dungeons didn't feel much harder than storymode dungeons to me (hi, 2nd boss of Sorrow's Embrace storymode + golem zerg event in COE), which is a bit of a headscratcher.

Going back to the ascended/legendary question, though - won't this just lead to elitism? I know that some PUGs already discriminate based on titles and cosmetic gear ("dungeon master title only", "arah gear only, gtfo with your scrub AC gear"), actual stat differences will be even worse.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 14, 2012, 03:48:43 AM
Zetor, i duno which crowd you ran with, the gear appearance didn't matter shit. It was the stats you were after.
AC gear had Power Tough and Vitality, something that any class would need to survive in High Damage dungeon environment.
That example was pretty terrible.

The only way people are not getting in my party is when they're not even at the recommended level, like taking a lvl 75 to Citadel of Flame. The Gate Brazier in P1 would fuck the party over unless the main gate DPS do it quick, while Path 2 requires a certain amount of tankiness when Magg plants the bomb.
Path 3 can go fuck itself.

But Elitism due to Ascended? Hell yes. This will happen since most encounters difficulty can be reduced with a soft gear check. Gone is the day when people tell you to pick up either Temple Karma gear, HotW, or AC for some much needed defense in dungeon. It's all infusion or agony will kill you now. World v World crowd practically hates this, they rely on Karma Gear / precious Badges to buy the pieces. Some resorted to buying gold to keep up with the Siege Engines and other costs...

Good for A.net/Farmer cashflow...but not gonna help them stay long.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2012, 04:14:44 AM
I know there's no stat difference between AC and Arah, it just serves to underline that some people will be elitist assholes about gear even if it doesn't have stats. Same idea with having to link raid achievements to get in PUGs in WOW. Only now with the ascended gear such elitism will be a lot more wide-spread...

e: I think some of this could apply to GW1 too, actually. Most PVP groups for TA/AB/etc only accepted pugs that had a high pvp rank already. I'm not sure if you needed to have a certain grind-title to get in the high-end elite dungeon runs like DOA or Underworld, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 07:02:54 AM
What in the world? There are a ton of options available besides worrying about dudes and their e-peens. Join a guild. Find better people to run with. Do more low-key PUGs.

Here's where I'm at on this:

1) We don't know how this works out without the slot filler stats
2) I can guarantee that the power differential between new gear and old will be substantially less than that between a WvW 80 in bad gear and a WvW 30 in spectacular gear. We're not calling for bans to people under 80 in WvW. We're not calling for bans of 80s in green gear in WvW.
3) We still don't even have reliable theorycrafting for this game to show how the raw stat differentials matter, meaning that we're speculating even more wildly on what this "means". If we're going to freak out (and some of you guys are really close to freaking out and leaving a game which you seem to REALLY enjoy over this), then it would probably be good to base that in actual numbers and how the game actually works, neither of which we quite have. 8% in stats across all items (and we still haven't talked about the BIG bonuses from set bonuses in normal gear) does NOT necessarily mean an 8% increase in damage, survivability, etc.
4) The people with the coverage and the tactics are going to trump gear, anyway. That won't change.

Of all the problems with the game, and despite how much I like it they're numerous, this doesn't seem like it's going to end up being the massive deal being touted. The part I do agree with is that they said if they did this, they've fucked up. That's their own viewpoint and they should be held to that.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 14, 2012, 08:32:09 AM
I know there's no stat difference between AC and Arah, it just serves to underline that some people will be elitist assholes about gear even if it doesn't have stats. Same idea with having to link raid achievements to get in PUGs in WOW. Only now with the ascended gear such elitism will be a lot more wide-spread...

e: I think some of this could apply to GW1 too, actually. Most PVP groups for TA/AB/etc only accepted pugs that had a high pvp rank already. I'm not sure if you needed to have a certain grind-title to get in the high-end elite dungeon runs like DOA or Underworld, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

I've seen people ask for level 80 only, or no glass cannons (which is funny, since that's basically saying "DPS spot filled" but no one wants to use the term DPS) - but having specific dungeon gear is  :uhrr:.

The Ascended stuff will be more than elitism though, you NEED infusions to go further into the fractals. It'll not even be just elitism blocking people, it's the fact that Agony is gonna tick a percentage of your health and that percentage will go up the deeper you go, unless you have the infusions to counteract it.

And if the stat increase is going to be 8-10% on each item, it could become necessary to grind it for WvW at 80, let alone someone that wants to go into WvW at an earlier level. Even now, it's pretty easy to tell when you run into a sub 80 in PvP.

Having said that, they ARE rolling it out pretty slowly and it still remains to be seen how tough it'll be to aquire Ascended gear. Upgrading a slot or 3 every few months isn't terrible as long as I don't have to grind one specific dungeon for it.

Plus, I am really looking forward to a level 80 zone that isn't full of stupid lazy-design Fallen.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2012, 08:40:10 AM
Honestly, I'm actually looking forward to this patch too. New high-end zone, new dungeon -- all good. I'd really like some sort of LFD, since dungeoning is fun, while standing around in LA (overflow) isn't very fun.

My main angst is just that they're introducing this new gear tier that kind of contradicts what they've been saying all along (and how it worked in GW1 - after all, getting max-level armor/weapons only a few hours into a campaign was one of the best things about it). I was also talking about doing other dungeons (without agony) where elitism could be a problem. "LF2M Arah explorable - I don't want to waste 2 hours on Giganticus Lupicus with scrubs, so show me that you have {a dungeon master title}/{a full set of Arah gear}/{full ascended gear}!"


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Sky on November 14, 2012, 11:01:16 AM
Is this max level stuff? I'll probably miss the event stuff this weekend anyway. And I'm a ways from max level, still. I really dig this game being f2p.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2012, 11:02:35 AM
It's max level, but everyone will be scaled to 80 [just like with Halloween].


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: MediumHigh on November 14, 2012, 11:03:30 AM
Pve'ers have been chomping at the bit for item grind/progression for a while. Anet will be wiser to further isolate that stupid from PVP which they will...for spvp. Can't say WvWvW won't get a marginal power creep or a big one. The main point of this armor is the introduction of agony. They could use this concept for every fucking dungeon or simply designated some dungeons for the mmopve'ers and other dungeons for the GW players. But yeah the real rage is how soon this is coming out and how fuck all its playerbase understands the game on a number crunching basis.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 14, 2012, 11:26:45 AM
Isn't the new equipment just rings and back slots?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2012, 11:35:58 AM
Only rings and back slots for now. They've pretty much explicitly said that this is just the beginning, etc. There'll be full sets of ascended gear available in a few months... maybe a new piece released every month to keep the gear grinder people playing.

e: added an important distinction


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 14, 2012, 02:34:15 PM
Power creep in WvW causes pve issues as well. Do you add agony to the keep lords since our DPS is going up? Do doors get more HP? And if so, siege needs higher damage, etc. At a certain point without creeping everything up, it becomes inefficient to bring siege compared to your usual skills (this issue already exists with bundles: most of the time your basic skills will out-everything bundles)

WvW's balance is delicate enough that they need to stat cap everyone at exotic equivalent and be done with it. Who cares what happens in pure-pve land, WvW needs a low stat cap to both keep the TTK on keeps knowable, and to keep the ramp up from new player -> statistically effective as short as possible.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 03:02:32 PM
That is insane. Did they need to lower door hit points when we were all level 20? Do they need to make sure Keep Lords have lower damage to account for gear discrepancies at level 80 now? Of course not and of course not. And most certainly they won't have to with this because there's more stats (which we don't even fully understand how they scale with damage) on three pieces of gear which may, after slotting, not even match normal pieces with orange quality jewels in them. You're ascribing a level of finite balancing to WvW which has never and will never exist. Two rings and a cloak which we haven't even seen in final form isn't going to turn everything topsy-turvy.

These balance issues which are going to ruin WvW have existed since day one because gear's not equal NOW. Of all the issues with this (and the number one issue is the effect it's going to have on running older dungeons in a game without a LFD) matter, WvW is honest to goodness the least. WvW will be fine. Come down off the ledge.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 03:23:27 PM
They didn't need to lower door hit points when we were all level 20 because it was a temporary state, not the new normal. Did you try doing sieges in the first few days? It was godawful trying to get through doors and nobody could afford siege weapons. If that state had continued permanently, yes, they would have had to change the numbers. This moves the bar in the other direction and will, unlike the level 20 days, be the new normal. It only will get worse over time. It isn't insane at all.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 14, 2012, 03:25:14 PM
They always balanced WvW for 80s with exotics. That we DPS'd slow at 20 doesn't matter, because the stuff was tested and scaled for the predictable and easy to hit top end at release.

I'm saying that if you increase that number, you need to rebalance/rescale. This seems.. entirely logical and not at all controversial to me?

If microwaves suddenly started cooking far hotter, we'd need to rewrite microwave instructions and reclassify what is microwave safe as well. Things are tested to the metrics and limits available at the time. If these things change, your tests must change and the product must also probably change.

When keep lords and doors were balanced, 1 player was expected to deal ~X dps. He now deals X+10% DPS. To retain balance, the lord and door need 10% more health, and probably higher damage output, same with siege (if players now have 10% higher health or mitigation, siege needs to hit 10% harder to have the same impact)

This really is the #1 issue the new gear has. It's not old dungeons which already had wonky gearing issues if you ran them pre/post level 65 or so when you started getting three stat gear, it's that WvW is clearly and painfully balanced around certain pieces of information like how long does it take for a door to go down given N number of players. Nobody cares if random AC boss goes down 10% faster. A keep door going down 10% faster is 10% less time for the defense to respond to an attack however.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: luckton on November 14, 2012, 03:37:27 PM
Still following this, even though I still have yet to step foot in the game  :why_so_serious:

So one of the devs came down from the high tower and posted this:

Quote from: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

From what I'm understanding as an outsider looking in, it seems that this new gear does actually fall in between exotic and legendary.  Is the angst due to the fear that those that can barely cut obtaining exotic will be further segregated from being viable in WvW because those that CAN obtain exotic and CAN obtain this new gear (but still can't get their hands on legendary) will be more powerful?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 03:38:21 PM
No, because we don't know in any real fashion how stats interact with DPS at all. The notion that everyone has the ability to do +10% DPS because of gear we haven't even seen based on theorycrafting that we don't actually know is what I'm saying is most nuts. Like, seriously, show me concrete numbers which point to X stats equaling Y extra DPS on Z abilities but not N abilities, which are affected at a different rate due to different coefficients. Games are numbers, yes, but you don't get to point to numbers in WvW balancing as the game exists now while also using plucked from thin air numbers like +10% DPS (or +8% stats, earlier). If those numbers don't exist for public consumption, maybe everyone should stop freaking out?

I'm absolutely not ruling out the possibility that this ends up being a horribly balanced, game-killing monstrosity; I've seen it happen. I'm certainly not saying that them adding this is automatically a good thing, particularly in light of their promises and it only being three months out. I am saying calm down and if you want to cite numbers, cite actual numbers for me in order to sway the conversation in a rational manner.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 14, 2012, 04:15:48 PM
Good luck with we don't have the numbers defense.  Do you even play this game?  Stats are huge.  Exotics +13% advantage over rares.  So +8% ascended is substantial.

Doesn't matter. I don't like gear grinds. They changed their mind about gear grinds and so have I about playing GW2. We know were this bullshit goes.

But its probably a good business move.  Suckers and money and all that.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 04:22:23 PM
If I thought the PVE in this game was anything but rudimentary, I'd be bothered a lot less; I enjoy gear progression in PVE. But at this point the only reason I really intended to keep playing for WvW, and hearing this after spending a lot of time and effort and resources getting my exotic suit all set and transmuted etc., just killed my interest.

They can still fix it very easily by just capping WvW stats at exotic level, but the "we intend to make ascended gear available through WvW!" line doesn't give me hope that they will.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 04:55:21 PM
Good luck with we don't have the numbers defense.  Do you even play this game?  Stats are huge.  Exotics +13% advantage over rares.  So +8% ascended is substantial.

Doesn't matter. I don't like gear grinds. They changed their mind about gear grinds and so have I about playing GW2. We know were this bullshit goes.

But its probably a good business move.  Suckers and money and all that.

That's not what I asked. I said "GIVE ME NUMBERS FOR HOW STATS INTERACT WITH RAW DAMAGE OUTPUT". That is what matters and, incidentally, that is what's being referenced. I'm trying to be constructive here and I'm absolutely able to be convinced this is a disaster. But going HEY OH SHIT +8% IN STATS OH GOD NO for the one piece of gear shown which isn't even slotted yet (seriously, what are some of the set bonuses? I forget... +50 Toughness? +50 Power? That matters!) without any fucking context about what that means at all is dumb. Or, tl;dr +X% STATS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY TRANSLATE INTO +X% DAMAGE SO SETTLE DOWN.

Until I see actual numbers on this shit I'm going to assume it's f13 being f13 and freaking out in advance of a grand, self-indulgent lashing of "elitism" and "catasses ruining this perfectly nice game".

Numbers. Coefficients. Cast times and how they interact with those things. Diminishing returns. Give them to me if you're going to freak out. Prove your case.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 04:56:58 PM
Yeah we're the ones who need to calm down.  :-P


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 04:58:25 PM
I've been totally mellow! Tazelbain's post just rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm not being flip or trying to back anyone into a corner. I'm being dead serious: I want to see numbers on this, particularly if we're making up numbers and referencing them as gospel. I don't think that's unreasonable. I've also been here long enough to have seen this movie before.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 05:00:57 PM
It's easy enough to demonstrate without having to resort to figuring out the effects of stats on DPS. Just look at how vitality scales, and assume that DPS and the more hidden survivability stats scale in the same way. An 8% or 13% increase in vitality is significant; it is safe to assume that it will be significant for the other stats as well.

EDIT: And actually even if it isn't, just scaling health by a bunch for a segment of the population will be pretty harmful.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 05:14:37 PM
It's easy enough to demonstrate without having to resort to figuring out the effects of stats on DPS. Just look at how vitality scales, and assume that DPS and the more hidden survivability stats scale in the same way. An 8% or 13% increase in vitality is significant; it is safe to assume that it will be significant for the other stats as well.

EDIT: And actually even if it isn't, just scaling health by a bunch for a segment of the population will be pretty harmful.

It's certainly not going to be non-zero, but damage almost never works on a linear 1 for 1 scale in MMOs. There are always a whole bunch of moving parts which adjust it. And, again, I can't stress enough that no set bonuses are going to be huge, even if they do expand it outward to all gear slots.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on November 14, 2012, 05:17:03 PM
From what I'm understanding as an outsider looking in, it seems that this new gear does actually fall in between exotic and legendary.  Is the angst due to the fear that those that can barely cut obtaining exotic will be further segregated from being viable in WvW because those that CAN obtain exotic and CAN obtain this new gear (but still can't get their hands on legendary) will be more powerful?

Actually the only legendaries in the game are weapons, and they have exactly the same stats as exotics right now. They are saying that legendaries will "always" have the best stats which means they will be upgraded once ascended weapons become available (not with this patch nor is there any given timetable for that).

So the angst is for ArenaNet seeming to go back on their word (and principles) that there would not be any gear progression statwise by introducing new ascended eq that is better than the current exotics even if the difference seems small so far (once you start down the road of stat progression...)

edit: 2 quotes from about 3 months ago by ArenaNet to clarify their principles (or what they were):
"Here's what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can't realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don't make grindy games -- we leave the grind to other MMOs."
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 05:20:34 PM
It's easy enough to demonstrate without having to resort to figuring out the effects of stats on DPS. Just look at how vitality scales, and assume that DPS and the more hidden survivability stats scale in the same way. An 8% or 13% increase in vitality is significant; it is safe to assume that it will be significant for the other stats as well.

EDIT: And actually even if it isn't, just scaling health by a bunch for a segment of the population will be pretty harmful.

It's certainly not going to be non-zero, but damage almost never works on a linear 1 for 1 scale in MMOs. There are always a whole bunch of moving parts which adjust it. And, again, I can't stress enough that no set bonuses are going to be huge, even if they do expand it outward to all gear slots.

We don't know what the actual infusions are going to carry with them in terms of additional stats or bonuses. There's no particular reason to believe there won't be something equivalent in power to set bonuses on them.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 05:45:13 PM
Except that if they're working from a budget on each item (they are) then the infusion to prevent Agony killing you is going to take some part of it, right? And the slots are very specifically for infusion items, if you check, and a narrow one at that (Defensive, we know, but then maybe Offensive and Support?).


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 14, 2012, 05:58:14 PM
In closed beta, the legendaries had higher stats, but they dropped those down to be in line with exotics after complaints from wvwer's.  Legendaries will only ever be top-tier, pretty skins.

As long as they offer a way for you to earn Ascended level things through wvw, what does it matter if they creep?  I don't see how someone having 10 more power than you with this patch from a ring/back slot items will shatter wvw and force ragequits.  They'll balance it out, just not this very second.  I'm not going to halt my wvw UNTIL I make sure I'm geared with ascended because otherwise I might get slaughtered.  Hell, most of the real hardcore wvwer's bring up their characters in wvw and AREN'T wearing bleeding edge gear and aren't crying their eyes out over the patch.  They're just wvw'ing and enjoying the game.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 05:58:26 PM
I don't see any particular reason why the "radiance" part of the infusion has to be a budgeted stat like the others, actually. We'll have to wait and see on that.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 14, 2012, 06:08:04 PM
Wow. This page looks exactly like the last page.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 14, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
As long as they offer a way for you to earn Ascended level things through wvw, what does it matter if they creep?  

Cause badges in WvW have frustratingly shitty drop rates unless you play WvW pretty hardcore.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2012, 06:52:59 PM
Yeah I count myself lucky to get 2-3 badges in a session of WvW. You can get them reliably by doing the jumping puzzles, but I'm not there to do jumping puzzles. I've always kind of wondered why keep lords don't drop them.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 14, 2012, 07:15:19 PM
What was the resistance stat on the lotro gear? Having a specific gear for specific dungeons as a cockock is not good design. I'm surprised arenanet is going this route. It didn't work well for lotro and I don't see it working well here.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Sjofn on November 14, 2012, 07:23:58 PM
As long as they offer a way for you to earn Ascended level things through wvw, what does it matter if they creep?  

Power creep in WvW, even when you can get the better gear through WvW, sucks. It sucks because someone coming in brand new gets the experience of "HOLY FUCK I AM BEING RUN OVER CONSTANTLY" with a long, long grind staring them in the face, and most people will just go "actually, fuck that" and do something else, which is less fun for EVERYONE. And anything I've read from them about it indicates to me they have no idea what a can of worms they're opening.

I know ArenaNet loves its grinds, but those grinds instantly stop being acceptable when they start to actually affect WvW in a meaningful way.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 14, 2012, 07:34:46 PM
No, because we don't know in any real fashion how stats interact with DPS at all. The notion that everyone has the ability to do +10% DPS because of gear we haven't even seen based on theorycrafting that we don't actually know is what I'm saying is most nuts. Like, seriously, show me concrete numbers which point to X stats equaling Y extra DPS on Z abilities but not N abilities, which are affected at a different rate due to different coefficients. Games are numbers, yes, but you don't get to point to numbers in WvW balancing as the game exists now while also using plucked from thin air numbers like +10% DPS (or +8% stats, earlier). If those numbers don't exist for public consumption, maybe everyone should stop freaking out?

I'm absolutely not ruling out the possibility that this ends up being a horribly balanced, game-killing monstrosity; I've seen it happen. I'm certainly not saying that them adding this is automatically a good thing, particularly in light of their promises and it only being three months out. I am saying calm down and if you want to cite numbers, cite actual numbers for me in order to sway the conversation in a rational manner.

"Like, seriously, show me concrete numbers which point to X stats equaling Y extra DPS on Z abilities but not N abilities" --Math is still being done, but it does exist!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=coefficient&go=Go

With a bit of effort I could get you the damage info for specific skills, but to give you an idea: going from 80 rare to 80 exotic on my Ele's dagger ups his basic fire autoattack from 192 -> 220. Which is a pretty significant jump.

"If those numbers don't exist for public consumption, maybe everyone should stop freaking out?"

Those numbers do exist for public consumption. We have the in game numbers, AND we have the numbers for Ascended items in comparison from the blog post with screenshot. So we know what the jump will be, and can extrapolate from there. Basically, in a solve for X equation we have all required bits to solve for X.

The problem with the new gear is that it's a tier higher than what is in the game, so player power levels are increasing. Hence the complaint from WvW people. If Ascended was equal in power to existing Exotics and simply had a new slot that only functioned in the new progression dungeons? No harm no foul. The entire complaint ignores infusion entirely and focuses on raw player power increasing, which is a bad thing in WvW.

Note: DAOC players will remember the shitfit we threw over MLs and leveling your pants. Same idea! Adding some grind to make it take longer to be competitive in WvW is a bad thing, full stop.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 14, 2012, 08:47:20 PM
Yeah I count myself lucky to get 2-3 badges in a session of WvW. You can get them reliably by doing the jumping puzzles, but I'm not there to do jumping puzzles. I've always kind of wondered why keep lords don't drop them.

They do drop. It's just random.
I've killed Supply Camp Supervisor and pick up badges off loot bags before.

But yeah, Ascended through badges is a good joke.
You need to play like an unemployed just to afford a full set of armor through badges.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 14, 2012, 08:49:49 PM
I know there's no stat difference between AC and Arah, it just serves to underline that some people will be elitist assholes about gear even if it doesn't have stats. Same idea with having to link raid achievements to get in PUGs in WOW. Only now with the ascended gear such elitism will be a lot more wide-spread...

e: I think some of this could apply to GW1 too, actually. Most PVP groups for TA/AB/etc only accepted pugs that had a high pvp rank already. I'm not sure if you needed to have a certain grind-title to get in the high-end elite dungeon runs like DOA or Underworld, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

I would like to troll some ppl someday, maybe by transmuting a noob gear with a lvl 80 exotic and still outperform these assholes in dungeons.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2012, 08:59:19 PM
"Like, seriously, show me concrete numbers which point to X stats equaling Y extra DPS on Z abilities but not N abilities" --Math is still being done, but it does exist!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=coefficient&go=Go

Thank you for this!


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Phred on November 15, 2012, 02:12:24 AM

I've seen people ask for level 80 only, or no glass cannons (which is funny, since that's basically saying "DPS spot filled" but no one wants to use the term DPS) - but having specific dungeon gear is  :uhrr:.


When I see ppl asking for this in map chat my first impulse is to reply to map chat that they must suck to need to pad the group that much.

Plus, I am really looking forward to a level 80 zone that isn't full of stupid lazy-design Fallen.

Oh god please. I fucking hate risen.



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 15, 2012, 02:14:56 AM
Yea -- putting aside the gear angst, I'm really looking forward to this - especially since I get the idea that they'll be pumping out free dungeons / zones regularly. Maybe I'll get some mileage out of the Ele weapons I'm not too familiar with, too. (read: everything that's not the staff  :awesome_for_real:)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on November 15, 2012, 08:08:26 AM
WvW already has scaling.  Why not just cap the stats based on a ratio of your unmodified amount, and then it doesn't matter if you're level 2 or 80 in full Ascended...

People are freaking over nothing.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 15, 2012, 09:21:56 AM

Plus, I am really looking forward to a level 80 zone that isn't full of stupid lazy-design Fallen.

Oh god please. I fucking hate risen.



Goddamit, I knew when I typed Fallen that was wrong. I HATE HATE HATE that the level 80 zones are nothing but fast pop Risen.

Yeah I count myself lucky to get 2-3 badges in a session of WvW. You can get them reliably by doing the jumping puzzles, but I'm not there to do jumping puzzles. I've always kind of wondered why keep lords don't drop them.

Especially considering the chest after the stupid Grub gives some.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 15, 2012, 10:49:48 AM
Yea -- putting aside the gear angst, I'm really looking forward to this - especially since I get the idea that they'll be pumping out free dungeons / zones regularly. Maybe I'll get some mileage out of the Ele weapons I'm not too familiar with, too. (read: everything that's not the staff  :awesome_for_real:)

If you aren't using daggers, you're not living. Best set ever.

The only depressing weapon Eles have is that focus offhand adds Meh durability at the cost of pretty much all your offensive power.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 15, 2012, 01:52:01 PM
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/15/a-spoiler-free-jaunt-through-guild-wars-2s-lost-shores/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/15/guild-wars-2-the-lost-shores/


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 15, 2012, 01:56:52 PM
Yea -- putting aside the gear angst, I'm really looking forward to this - especially since I get the idea that they'll be pumping out free dungeons / zones regularly. Maybe I'll get some mileage out of the Ele weapons I'm not too familiar with, too. (read: everything that's not the staff  :awesome_for_real:)

If you aren't using daggers, you're not living. Best set ever.

The only depressing weapon Eles have is that focus offhand adds Meh durability at the cost of pretty much all your offensive power.

Yup, once you go daggers, you'll never go back to staff.  (Unless you're in a keep or possibly assaulting a keep.)  Otherwise, it's dance around more than a thief time, killing all the things like a boss while never dropping below 1/2 health, lol.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
WvW already has scaling.  Why not just cap the stats based on a ratio of your unmodified amount, and then it doesn't matter if you're level 2 or 80 in full Ascended...

People are freaking over nothing.

Why not do this indeed. Until they do, it isn't over nothing.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ard on November 15, 2012, 05:57:30 PM
So does anyone want to get together and give a stab at the fractals once they go in?  I'm no longer feeling so attached to Gates of Madness, so I'm I'm willing to server hop if we want to try to get a group going.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 15, 2012, 07:53:09 PM
So does anyone want to get together and give a stab at the fractals once they go in?  I'm no longer feeling so attached to Gates of Madness, so I'm I'm willing to server hop if we want to try to get a group going.
I'm all about it.  Let's go.  Can talk to Lanty and Vu and see what's up with them.  They're in Star, I'm in SLAP, but we all dungeon run together.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2012, 08:01:36 PM
Looks like infusions do, indeed, carry regular stats on them.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ard on November 15, 2012, 08:01:46 PM
I was about to say just hit me up whenever you need a fifth, and was about to log in to make sure I had you guys on my friends list, but holy mother of god, they just pushed out a large ass patch, above and beyond just the lost shores stuff.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2012-11-15


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 15, 2012, 09:59:44 PM

Lot's of people in general chat complaining about this one:

"Many skills, items, and traits were applying healing to an infinite amount of targets and have now been limited to 5 targets."

but really the better question is why it wasn't fixed much earlier.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 15, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
I get it now, Support Guardians are supposed to just stay in Dungeons.
Cause healing 5 people with full health in a sea of 20 is a sound tactical move.

Shame, I was having fun last night in WvW, guess it's back to Grenadier.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 15, 2012, 10:55:48 PM

There's a reason damage damage AoE's have a cap, if you didn't think healing was going to get one the mind boggles. You can't design a skill with that sort of scaling.

Though it does look like Guardians are getting PvP nerfs out of this patch. I haven't done enough PvP with my guardian to know if they deserve it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 15, 2012, 11:37:12 PM
There isn't any way to do cross-server grouping, right (unless getting lucky with an overflow or something)? I'm an officer in my guild on Tarnished Coast, and it probably wouldn't look good if I xferred :p

e: wow, some awesome changes in those patch notes (more dungeon loot, better drops from veterans/champions, making the fire elemental in the asura starting zone a bit less  :why_so_serious:, etc). Also, I think this change about loot in downlevelled areas is pretty awesome (no more Orr!):

OTOH, the massive evasive arcana nerf makes me a very sad panda.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ard on November 15, 2012, 11:50:33 PM
There isn't any way to do cross-server grouping, right (unless getting lucky with an overflow or something)? I'm an officer in my guild on Tarnished Coast, and it probably wouldn't look good if I xferred :p

Yeah, the cross server guesting still isn't in, and I'm still annoyed about that.

God, the sheer amount of stuff in this patch that has people upset is just staggering.  If this was a sub game, this patch would probably have killed the game.  As it is, I'm not sure.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 15, 2012, 11:56:53 PM

There's a reason damage damage AoE's have a cap, if you didn't think healing was going to get one the mind boggles. You can't design a skill with that sort of scaling.

Though it does look like Guardians are getting PvP nerfs out of this patch. I haven't done enough PvP with my guardian to know if they deserve it.


I'm not arguing against limitation of healing.
but the random targeting of buff and heals means the people who need it might not get it due to the wide buffing radius.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Mosesandstick on November 16, 2012, 01:18:57 AM
Quote
Fixed a bug preventing melee attacks from hitting static objects in the world if the character was not moving. As an example, this should help players using melee in Ascalonian Catacombs to hit graveling burrows, amongst other offending objects.

Finally! :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Phred on November 16, 2012, 03:08:56 AM
So does anyone want to get together and give a stab at the fractals once they go in?  I'm no longer feeling so attached to Gates of Madness, so I'm I'm willing to server hop if we want to try to get a group going.

I keep telling you guys you don't have to be on the same server to group up. Just get the invite on your friends list and zone into the instance.



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Phred on November 16, 2012, 03:11:10 AM
There isn't any way to do cross-server grouping, right (unless getting lucky with an overflow or something)? I'm an officer in my guild on Tarnished Coast, and it probably wouldn't look good if I xferred :p


See my post above. If we all joined bat country we could just form up from guild chat. Just have to be representing so we can chat. I'd be in for a fractal too.

Btw who can invite for bat country?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on November 16, 2012, 09:24:04 AM
So does anyone want to get together and give a stab at the fractals once they go in?  I'm no longer feeling so attached to Gates of Madness, so I'm I'm willing to server hop if we want to try to get a group going.

I keep telling you guys you don't have to be on the same server to group up. Just get the invite on your friends list and zone into the instance.



Phred beat me to it.  I did the MK dungeon with buddies from a different server.  Just invite and meet in instance.

If anyone needs an extra person at any time, give me a shout:  Science.6709  (80 necromancer)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 16, 2012, 10:19:12 AM
Have you seen the data mines on this shit? They are trying to out item grind WoW.  Far worse than I initial thought. I never would bought this game if they had this in the original design. Complete betrayal. The only thing that makes sense is that this forced on them by NCSoft. I will never buy another NCSoft game. WoW ruins everything.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 16, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
There isn't any way to do cross-server grouping, right (unless getting lucky with an overflow or something)? I'm an officer in my guild on Tarnished Coast, and it probably wouldn't look good if I xferred :p


See my post above. If we all joined bat country we could just form up from guild chat. Just have to be representing so we can chat. I'd be in for a fractal too.

Btw who can invite for bat country?


I can invite for BC and would love to hit the Fractals with you guys. Had no clue you could join up that easily.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 16, 2012, 10:34:12 AM
Which datamines? I'm offended by the stats on infusions making the ilvl discrepancy even worse, but I haven't seen anything else offensive?

They actually made dungeons drop exotics, which is pretty awesome.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: tazelbain on November 16, 2012, 10:55:17 AM
Multi teirs of infusions that require gambling to get better tiers. The backpacks requiring several gifts. The ascended rank isn't a teir; it has at least 2 tiers of gear.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 16, 2012, 11:07:42 AM
http://www.gw2db.com/items/trinkets/rings

I want a Solaria and Lunaria asap.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 16, 2012, 11:56:44 AM
I'm not seeing the multiple tiers of infusions yet, or actually the stat altering infusions actually being a thing (I saw the item code link, but there are dud item codes just like WoW), that gw2db link shows infusion just adding 5 agony resist and no stats.

I'm really curious what is actually in game and what the intent is.

edit: to be clear, this is the mined infusion data:

http://www.gw2db.com/search?search=infusion#t1:items

But the rings link shows infused items without the extra +5 stat, so I think the (infused) stuff is just botched item codes, and the +5 stat thing is legit.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ard on November 16, 2012, 11:57:46 AM
Phred beat me to it.  I did the MK dungeon with buddies from a different server.  Just invite and meet in instance.

If they finally fixed that, it's awesome, and I'm sorry for giving bad info then.  I still can't find any patch notes mentioning it though.  It used to break horribly unless everyone tried zoning into the dungeon from the same base zone or overflow, and I haven't tried in quite a while.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 16, 2012, 11:58:52 AM
Yeah, it's fixed now and I never saw any notes explaining it. But I've had no issues joining cross server dungeon runs for a month or so.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 16, 2012, 12:17:58 PM
Yea, in that case I'm open for dungeon funsies as well. Zaphir.7210 (charname is Zaph)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 01:05:49 PM
I'm not seeing the multiple tiers of infusions yet, or actually the stat altering infusions actually being a thing (I saw the item code link, but there are dud item codes just like WoW), that gw2db link shows infusion just adding 5 agony resist and no stats.

I'm really curious what is actually in game and what the intent is.

edit: to be clear, this is the mined infusion data:

http://www.gw2db.com/search?search=infusion#t1:items

But the rings link shows infused items without the extra +5 stat, so I think the (infused) stuff is just botched item codes, and the +5 stat thing is legit.

I would be surprised if infusions didn't come in multiple qualities, other things that go into slots all do (runes, sigils, jewels).


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tyrnan on November 16, 2012, 02:33:34 PM
Well this is fun, 30-60 second skill activation times, randomly teleporting about, about a minute to use a waypoint res (because no one can res).  :uhrr:

I missed the Halloween thing, was it anything like this?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 02:40:37 PM
Halloween didn't have a big everyone-in-one-zone-all-at-once fight.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Threash on November 16, 2012, 02:44:23 PM
Halloween was just a short cinematic then everyone broke into groups and went into an instance.  This was horrible.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tyrnan on November 16, 2012, 02:59:29 PM
Halloween was just a short cinematic then everyone broke into groups and went into an instance.  This was horrible.

I finally managed to get to the Asura portals in LA and zoned to DR and back and everything was fine.  Guess I must have got put into a different overflow or something?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: luckton on November 16, 2012, 03:36:26 PM
Took my lvl 8 Engi to LA.

Well this is fun, 30-60 second skill activation times, randomly teleporting about, about a minute to use a waypoint res (because no one can res).  :uhrr:


Pretty much my experience.  Now that the invasion event is over, what do I do now?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 16, 2012, 03:43:47 PM
I had more luck after I pushed past the zerg and started fighting mobs on the west side (everyone was clustered in the east side). Still had a lot of ability delay, but it was kinda borderline playable. Also turned off autoattack, since I wanted my one action per 2-3 seconds to mean something  :why_so_serious:

There's a new investigation quest thing too, though (surprisingly?) bugged on the 4th or so step. Will play around with it tomorrow since they're hotfixing the dude... but for now, I must sleep!


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 16, 2012, 04:02:33 PM

Yay for timed events in a global game I guess since I get to sleep through whatever that was.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 16, 2012, 04:28:42 PM
Fractals are pretty fun. But for a kick in your nuts:

They don't count for dungeon completion for the monthly, and instead a new Fractals Completed is on the montly list <3


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 04:30:14 PM
Fractals are pretty fun. But for a kick in your nuts:

They don't count for dungeon completion for the monthly, and instead a new Fractals Completed is on the montly list <3

ಠ_ಠ


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 16, 2012, 04:34:33 PM
Managed to hit LA at 3pm ET. Man that was nuts. Felt like day after launch SWG. Finally about 40 minutes in (and once I moved way west of the main group) it was playable.

What happened after ward? Had to log right as the lighthouse blew up. Came back later and picked up the Consortium series (just talked to Blingg need to find someone named Noll). REALLY wish NPC quest window dialog would appear in the chat window.

That I think was just one option. The other was go to the Fractals or purchase and make donations to that lady by Mystic Forge?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Sky on November 16, 2012, 05:10:33 PM
I think I'm broken for playing mmo. Log in, go to LA, talk to some NPCs. They send me to the shore, some stuff on the shore. It's all busted, there are some crowbars, so I grab one. See a sealed container, can't interact with or hit it. Run around for ten minutes trying to find another sealed one, place is mobbed with people.

Enough of that. I play games to play games, not to try to dick around for twenty minutes doing nothing. Boring. Back to xcom.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 16, 2012, 06:11:34 PM
Yea this wasn't handled very well in my opinion. Too much public space stuff happening at the exact same time for everyone. There aren't enough overflow servers in the world to handle that kind of thing. The next one of these I'm sure won't be like this, probably multiple times or more instanced content, or both.

What you're seeking requires clicking crates in a series I think. You click all the ones along the shore and they'll progress the one that tells you to get a crowbar. You don't actually swing the crowbar at that container though, you just interact with the container. That's kind of a shame.

After that you're back to the main plaza guy who then sends you to Blingg who then sends you to Noll who I have no idea where he is and will need to look it up before I log back into the game.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Threash on November 16, 2012, 06:11:53 PM
How do i get to the new zone anyways?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ard on November 16, 2012, 06:19:16 PM
You don't until tomorrow.  The fractal dungeons are open today though, down by fort mariner in lion's arch.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on November 16, 2012, 08:34:02 PM
Fractals are pretty fun. But for a kick in your nuts:

They don't count for dungeon completion for the monthly, and instead a new Fractals Completed is on the montly list <3
Tough as nails, but fun.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tannhauser on November 16, 2012, 09:26:24 PM
I did the main event at 3, it was pretty fun.  No real surprises though. Fewer players than I expected to defend against the invasion.  Took just under an hour.  Later I went to the beach scavenger hunt but my PC shit the bed twice so I gave up for now.  Reserving judgement on this event, want to see the new zone and some rewards.  Can't do the fractal dungeon, I'd hate to screw my group over by my PC shutting down. 



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 16, 2012, 10:35:06 PM

It appears to be 80% waiting, 10% bugs and 10% I slept through.

WoW did it better. Simpler events, longer between phase transitions and total duration so everyone can participate / they can debug it and more obvious sign-posting.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 16, 2012, 10:37:41 PM
Terrible event. I'm taking a long break from the game. 3 months in is a pretty good time spent with no subs.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Brogarn on November 17, 2012, 12:17:26 AM
Missed the event, but the dungeon is incredibly fun.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tmon on November 17, 2012, 12:27:27 AM
Scavenger hunt seems to be perma borked at the final stage.  Also the little mini invasions suck, generally the monsters are killed before they even get rendered on screen.  On my PC it just looked like groups of people attacking an empty spot but when I joined in I managed to do enough damage to get gold contribution without really ever seeing a live monster.   The main invasion was better aside from the huge lag between hitting an attack and having it take effect at least the monsters were visible.  Overall I'd give them a B for what they seem to be trying to accomplish and an F- for execution.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tyrnan on November 17, 2012, 05:15:30 AM
They've posted an update (https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/lostshores/The-Lost-Shores-phase-1-update/page/2#post768559) on phase 1...


No mention of the insane lag though  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 17, 2012, 11:17:03 AM
What a mess.

I just gave up on all the Lost Shores content and went back to exploring and working on my world 100%. Maybe today I'll give the Fractals a try, but overall this has been a real mess.

Ascended gear, lag and completely bugged quests that need to be completed by a certain time? So disappointed.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 17, 2012, 11:19:41 AM
The fractal dungeons are freaking awesome. Way better than the dungeons I've done before, imo.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 17, 2012, 12:44:01 PM
The only shitty fractal is the Swamp, imo. The rest are a really fun re-imagination of what GW2 dungeons should be like. No death zerging (and also no bullshit kill mechanics), and the bosses tend to be a mechanic you need to figure out and use instead of just damage sponges (jellyfish boss being the boring damage sponge exception)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Sky on November 17, 2012, 02:49:46 PM
So event #2 that's basically fun for groups?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 17, 2012, 05:49:04 PM
I thought it was fairly unintuitive, and lacking in cutscenes.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Phred on November 17, 2012, 10:46:06 PM
I think instead of hiring economists game companies need to hire psychologists to tell them how humans will react to their designs. Maybe someone could have told them that making a progressive dungeon like this was going to stratify guilds as some groups raced ahead then refused to do lower instances with their other guildmates. WTG. I saw it even yesterday after getting to L2 the people in my group were adament about not doing another L1 to help more guildies catch up. Selfishness encouraged by game design.




Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 18, 2012, 12:01:31 AM
It's much simpler than that: their testing process isn't up to the task. We got a pretty tight game at launch because had months of non-employees telling the fulltime development team what they needed to hear.

Now though the first they hear anything is after it's live. And since they're no longer in for-launch development mode, their live team (both QA and dev) are likely much smaller.

They need a public test server. I'm curious why they don't have it. I hope they don't think it prevents info from leaking ahead of time. That's been long since proven a fools errand.

They also need to stop launching events on weekends. I know why they do it (weekend play is peak play). But learn from the dozens of other companies who learned over the last 12 years. You don't patch on weekends unless you "work week" is Wednesday to Monday.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on November 18, 2012, 05:20:13 AM
They need a public test server. I'm curious why they don't have it. I hope they don't think it prevents info from leaking ahead of time. That's been long since proven a fools errand.

While it may be a fool's errand, I still prefer not having a full-scale public test server since I have negative personal experiences how they affect the game ie. "new raid content, first try; everyone look at this youtube video and do exactly what it says".

That said let me repeat it's my personal opinion (based on how I feel) and in the case of gw2 I wouldn't really care since I pretty much only wvw  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: jakonovski on November 18, 2012, 06:16:19 AM
So coming back from a long break, my lvl 40 character is prompted to go to this island. The whole place is almost deserted and no events or quests anywhere. My character is boosted to 80 but the mobs are still crazy hard. She dies, there's some passers by but none of them seem to bother resurrecting fallen players anymore. Finally there's an event, go get golem parts. You have to dodge some worms it seems. Oh hey, they one shot you. Log out, fire up Dark Souls.





Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 18, 2012, 06:46:41 AM

I'm a new 80, so not terribly well geared, and the mobs were kicking my ass. I really don't know what they are thinking with it. There's all sorts of problems that should have been really obvious on the drawing board.

The first being that it's a new level 80 zone, so just allow it to be a level 80 zone and lay off trying to make it an "event".


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 18, 2012, 07:59:36 AM
I think they want it to be a 'post-80 endgame zone', and yea, the mobs are quite a bit harder than orr or frostgorge - I also saw plenty of level 82 and 84 [!] mobs, which obviously hit pretty hard. Only advice I have is to have some kind of projectile reflect skill, since the kraken mobs use a high-damage volley as their first attack. If you reflect that, it usually takes off 60% of their hp right there.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 18, 2012, 08:08:57 AM

I was more meaning that level boosting low level character so they can visit a post-80 zone is destined to end badly.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on November 18, 2012, 08:29:20 AM
I think the boost is so everyone can participate in the weekend's events or go with groups.  It's not practical for lower levels to solo there.  Long-time 80s have to be careful when alone.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 18, 2012, 10:04:50 AM
They need a public test server. I'm curious why they don't have it. I hope they don't think it prevents info from leaking ahead of time. That's been long since proven a fools errand.

Assuming they are running this like GW1, then they have a *heavily* NDA'd closed testing group still going on, where they push content live and the people that are in the beta program are allowed to try it (they also schedule testing events pretty heavily).  I believe when I was in the GW1 one way after live I wasn't even allowed to say that I was even *in* the test program.

So they do have a core group of players testing the new content, that I'm sure.  Whether it's the *right* group of players, that's debatable.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Threash on November 18, 2012, 10:31:42 AM
The fractals are fun but the rewards seem a bit low.  Other than the exotic back items, which actually seem to have lower stats than my current green one and no upgrade slot there didn't seem to be much point to them.  Is there a chance to get ascended items from them?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Phred on November 18, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
They need a public test server. I'm curious why they don't have it. I hope they don't think it prevents info from leaking ahead of time. That's been long since proven a fools errand.

Assuming they are running this like GW1, then they have a *heavily* NDA'd closed testing group still going on, where they push content live and the people that are in the beta program are allowed to try it (they also schedule testing events pretty heavily).  I believe when I was in the GW1 one way after live I wasn't even allowed to say that I was even *in* the test program.

So they do have a core group of players testing the new content, that I'm sure.  Whether it's the *right* group of players, that's debatable.

A core group of testers isnt going to reveal that your content is designed to segregate normal people.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: veredus on November 18, 2012, 12:41:28 PM
The fractals are fun but the rewards seem a bit low.  Other than the exotic back items, which actually seem to have lower stats than my current green one and no upgrade slot there didn't seem to be much point to them.  Is there a chance to get ascended items from them?

Tier 10+ fractals can drop ascended items is what is listed on the wiki. Ascended backpacks are mystic forge crafted.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Threash on November 18, 2012, 02:04:49 PM
The fractals are fun but the rewards seem a bit low.  Other than the exotic back items, which actually seem to have lower stats than my current green one and no upgrade slot there didn't seem to be much point to them.  Is there a chance to get ascended items from them?

Tier 10+ fractals can drop ascended items is what is listed on the wiki. Ascended backpacks are mystic forge crafted.

Geez, i didn't even know there was that many levels.  Mine only goes up to five.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 18, 2012, 02:08:46 PM

Assuming they are running this like GW1, then they have a *heavily* NDA'd closed testing group still going on, where they push content live and the people that are in the beta program are allowed to try it (they also schedule testing events pretty heavily).  I believe when I was in the GW1 one way after live I wasn't even allowed to say that I was even *in* the test program.

So they do have a core group of players testing the new content, that I'm sure.  Whether it's the *right* group of players, that's debatable.
That would make sense. But for it to really show problems, that group needs to be playing like normal players, and be as many of them. 100 players testing two DEs in a zone at a time does not expose how an unknown trigger affects some NPC half a zone away (which I am only guessing but assume that was the problem with Noll). And for some reason, none of those players are playing Norn or they wouldn't keeping introduce ceiling-height issues on jump puzzles.

I think they want it to be a 'post-80 endgame zone', and yea, the mobs are quite a bit harder than orr or frostgorge - I also saw plenty of level 82 and 84 [!] mobs, which obviously hit pretty hard. Only advice I have is to have some kind of projectile reflect skill, since the kraken mobs use a high-damage volley as their first attack. If you reflect that, it usually takes off 60% of their hp right there.
Yea. Boosted level 40 or new level 80 are established level 80, the new island is tougher than Cursed Shore, and everything either pulls or jumps at ya. Luckily it seems the mobs are spaced out a bit more than Cursed or Straights, so exploring is slightly easier.

Just don't bother 100%-ing yet. There's no reward, and there's not even a display of progress on the Map (or there wasn't as of last night, not sure what got/gets patched today).


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tannhauser on November 18, 2012, 02:38:08 PM
Watching these events and the forthcoming changes I feel the game is leaving me at the station.



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: veredus on November 18, 2012, 04:01:59 PM
Threash

I thought I read somewhere that the fractals have no end. Can't find where I read it now though, sorry.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 18, 2012, 05:00:36 PM
So Phase Three of the event is uh...

pee, eat, and make sure you're good before you start it, because you'll be there for three hours. It's like 10+ years of lessons learned about continuous time required were forgotten overnight. I've never seen an MMO I like so much miss the mark so badly.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 18, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
200 dead karkans for the monthly and i'm done with the island of fuck-ups.
Logged on to find the event over. A once in a lifetime experience indeed.



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 18, 2012, 07:25:56 PM
And a 20 slot bag!


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Shatter on November 18, 2012, 07:48:55 PM
Sad this is a one time only event ending so only people who had 3 hours(3 hours for an event is retarded) this afternoon could get the rewards which are actually good.  Ive seen 20 slot bag and accessory with +25 to all stats or something.  Little pissed I get fucked over because I had shit to do awont have an opportunity.  A lot of people pissed on their forums as well, not just because they missed but because shiton got disconnected at the end and no credit lol


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on November 18, 2012, 08:04:46 PM
I imagine when they run the numbers they'll not do something quite like this again. The system couldn't handle it, they had inadequate coverage for a weekend event, and they aren't able to do enough QA with enough real people on a wide enough array of connections to really get a real world impression until it's in the real world.

Halloween event was better. Shit, launch was better.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Shatter on November 18, 2012, 08:16:36 PM
Problem with this event was people like me did part 1, got nothing.  Did part 2..got nothing.  Missed part 3 and thats when they give out the uber rewards...wtf?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 18, 2012, 08:18:07 PM
try playing during asian hours.
GMT +8

Monday morning is when the event climax is wrapped up.
Needless to say, I did not even bother turning up.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 18, 2012, 08:40:22 PM
I showed up three times.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Shatter on November 18, 2012, 08:46:32 PM
I showed up three times.
You came 3 times?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 18, 2012, 08:56:17 PM
I figured it was going to be an hour or so. By the time I was sick of it, I couldn't log out because I'd sunk over an hour into it.

It started well and ended well, but there were two phases of the event which had a gigantic silithi... sorry, karka... summoning adds. You killed the adds, not the karka boss. Except they just kept coming. By the end, it was three champions at once. It wasn't fun. It was tedious. Mind numbing. Awful.

Which is a shame, because the not reinforcement parts were pretty good. The loot? You were guaranteed the earring, the 20 slot bag, and then four pieces of randomized loot. Some people got precursors. A lot of others got named unique exotics. Me? I got two level 79 generic exotic armor pieces and two level 76 generic yellow armor pieces. Net value: 1.2 gold. For three hours, of which only a third of that was fun. It was bullshit and I'm still annoyed.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Shatter on November 18, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
I figured it was going to be an hour or so. By the time I was sick of it, I couldn't log out because I'd sunk over an hour into it.

It started well and ended well, but there were two phases of the event which had a gigantic silithi... sorry, karka... summoning adds. You killed the adds, not the karka boss. Except they just kept coming. By the end, it was three champions at once. It wasn't fun. It was tedious. Mind numbing. Awful.

Which is a shame, because the not reinforcement parts were pretty good. The loot? You were guaranteed the earring, the 20 slot bag, and then four pieces of randomized loot. Some people got precursors. A lot of others got named unique exotics. Me? I got two level 79 generic exotic armor pieces and two level 76 generic yellow armor pieces. Net value: 1.2 gold. For three hours, of which only a third of that was fun. It was bullshit and I'm still annoyed.
Furiously came 3 times and you got f*cked for 3 hours, coincidence?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 18, 2012, 09:42:56 PM
Problem with this event was people like me did part 1, got nothing.  Did part 2..got nothing.  Missed part 3 and thats when they give out the uber rewards...wtf?

Actually the best part is according to the forums, a TON of people did part 3 but got disconnected and due to loading bugs and various other issues could not reconnect in the 5 minutes before the chest despawned.  Other people who got disconnected got thrown back to overflow servers where the event was already ended.  So people that spent 3 hours today got nothing.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 19, 2012, 12:10:31 AM
Yea, I'm still scratching my head over this event. I got 2 level 80 exotics (1h mace and spear, not precursors though), the guaranteed bag/earring, and two yellows for my trouble. The reinforcement waves were indeed omg wtf - I went to take a shower during the second one, and when I got back it was still going. OTOH the map chat was pretty amusing during all this, and the pun factor through the roof by the end. There was also some breakdown in the chat/login servers after the event concluded; I wasn't able to talk in guild (would occasionally see some people talking, but not the ones they were talking to) and when I tried to relog to fix this, the login server said 'haha no'. Ah well, I had to go sleep anyway.

BTW, I remember someone complaining about dragon events being zerg fodder. Well, here was an event with plenty of zerg-busting mechanisms, how did you like it?!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on November 19, 2012, 12:44:40 AM
try playing during asian hours.
GMT +8

Monday morning is when the event climax is wrapped up.
Needless to say, I did not even bother turning up.

Yep... it's a big "not for you" sign (I'm in the same timezone).

The tears are flowing freely on the forums. Superb idea putting that on a one time unique event. I'm halfway convinced Anet, like many PvP developers, actually sort of enjoys trolling their user base.



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2012, 03:30:28 AM
Since the event was running in so many overflows I did get to bring three characters to it....(It also turns out that I had guildies run all their characters to the chest spot, and if you were in the zone while the chest was up you could loot from it...which allowed some of them to get 8 bags.)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 19, 2012, 07:32:22 AM
Viewing some Youtube videos the Fractals look kinda fun, but then I remember how hard it's been to round up people I know to try a dungeon (have yet to be able to try one) and between the elitism and retardation level of the general population I don't really have a desire to pug them.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Modern Angel on November 19, 2012, 07:45:06 AM
The Fractals are awesome. Way awesome and very expandable. The new zone is the wtf stuff. Why would I go back there? I'm not going to make more money, have more fun, or get better drops there. I don't think it's as aesthetically pleasing as Orr. It's entirely superfluous and feels very weird to me.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 19, 2012, 07:51:22 AM
I grouped for some fractals this weekend (three level 1 fractals, three level 2 fractals, end boss fractal) in two separate pugs assembled in LA (read: someone was saying 'lf3m level 1 fractal' in map chat). My own character is in greens with a yellow or two, and we had multiple lower-level chars in both pugs. One of the puggers kept falling down in the jumping part of the asura fractal, and another one DC'd through two boss fights. Still, the only times we wiped were on the end boss (because none of us knew wtf to do) and the "it's dark in the water, you may be eaten by a gruepiranha" scenario (ditto).

Level 1 and level 2 aren't hard at all, and can be easily 4 (probably even 3) manned. Except for the swamp, because fuck that place (NB - I haven't gotten the swamp fractal yet, but I hear it's not a very friendly place).

That said, I'm not so sure about doing too many fractals myself. As fun as they are, they can get repetitive if you do 6 of them a day...

edit: Same with dungeons. I pug with complete strangers 100% of the time, and "retardation" was never a problem. I don't recall any wipefests in dungeons except for uh... the first 2 weeks the game's been out, and even then the only really bad experience was in a guild run where *I* was the pug (and no, I wasn't the one screwing up :p). But then, I only run the 'scrub' dungeons because I'm not looking forward to meeting Giganticus Lupicus the Pugstomper.

edit2:
The new zone is the wtf stuff. Why would I go back there? I'm not going to make more money, have more fun, or get better drops there. I don't think it's as aesthetically pleasing as Orr. It's entirely superfluous and feels very weird to me.
The only thing I can see is higher level mobs. I saw a lot of level 82s [sometimes even 84s during events], and according to an early popup, higher-level mobs are supposed to give more/better loot. As a staff elementalist I can kill a young karka in about 4 seconds when my reflect shield is up (30sec cooldown), but I'll still get gibbed if I aggro two at once.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 19, 2012, 08:16:38 AM
I should clarify, the phobia of running dungeons with PUGS came about before people had figured out dungeons and they were still considered wtf hard even with guild groups.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on November 19, 2012, 09:45:35 AM
This felt like a raid, and not in a good way. 

I had to go through it twice, as the first time I made it to the end of a 3 hour stretch, my corpse glitched out and became invisible to other players.  I watched the Ancient Karka get killed, watched the people cheer, saw the loot linked.  When I respawned and tried to run back, the chest was gone. 

Second try was successful, albeit another 3 hours.  I got nice loot, but for some reason didn't feel good about it.  Felt kind of wronged.  People were repeating it on their alts, hell even a level 2 was in there.  I couldn't bear the thought of doing it again though.

The one good thing was that I discovered you could join any overflow server that a group member was in.  Right click on their portrait and "join in [location]".  Could this be part of the otherwise inanimate guesting system?


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on November 19, 2012, 09:45:45 AM
The new zone's mobs are just dickish to the point of only being designed to make Orr mobs seem awesome. Tons of immobilizes, 12-14k ranged burst attacks (this is what makes reflect classes awesome for farming them) and generally nothing worth anything in the zone.

I do hope they learn that while giant world changing events are awesome, their engine cannot handle them right now so stop making them. I left before the phase 3 reward because I got tired of being one shot by champs that hadn't rendered for me yet because of the overly aggressive culling system.

I like the fractals, though I fear what they mean for Dungeons, since I see little reason to run dungeons with Fracts being nearly as good for loot (no exotic tokens however) and FAR easier to find a group for.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on November 19, 2012, 10:04:18 AM
If the reinforcement phases hadn't been stupidly long, and I had gotten an exotic over level 78, I'd have enjoyed it a lot more.  I like that they're doing events and putting new content out there, I just wish they'd severely tighten up the population of these zones for world-changing events to make them more bearable.

I also wish I had thought about putting more characters into the zones prior.  Maybe I'd have gotten something decent out of it then.  I felt really ripped off seeing people link all these cool items when all I got was ecto fodder.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Threash on November 19, 2012, 10:09:11 AM
Dungeons will be fine, they still get you reliable exotic sets and the monetary reward is far higher.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on November 19, 2012, 10:16:00 AM

I keep telling you guys you don't have to be on the same server to group up. Just get the invite on your friends list and zone into the instance.


So, we couldn't get this work with people on the same server, but different instances (overflow etc) let alone with people from another server for the Fractals.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on November 19, 2012, 10:31:44 AM
We've only had it work for classic dungeons and fractals.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 19, 2012, 07:16:48 PM
Viewing some Youtube videos the Fractals look kinda fun, but then I remember how hard it's been to round up people I know to try a dungeon (have yet to be able to try one) and between the elitism and retardation level of the general population I don't really have a desire to pug them.

if you get swamp. prepare for a long stretch.
some of them require voice coordination.
and maybe a mes to make it bearable.

There's even a map with a bunch of mini-platforms that has gas-venting walls you have to dodge, else you get knocked down and die while carrying the mcguffin that kills you after 40 seconds.

whee.

LF3M fractal scale 3.
I am scale 2 , is that ok
No.
LF3M fractal scale 3.
guildies logon.
Hey guys starting fractal scale 6 party come join me.

One day of this and I realize I shouldn't bother.
I returned to farming the improved dungeon loot to farm silvers and retire my char when the gold gets more expensive.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: EWSpider on November 19, 2012, 09:00:59 PM
Viewing some Youtube videos the Fractals look kinda fun, but then I remember how hard it's been to round up people I know to try a dungeon (have yet to be able to try one) and between the elitism and retardation level of the general population I don't really have a desire to pug them.

if you get swamp. prepare for a long stretch.
some of them require voice coordination.
and maybe a mes to make it bearable.

There's even a map with a bunch of mini-platforms that has gas-venting walls you have to dodge, else you get knocked down and die while carrying the mcguffin that kills you after 40 seconds.

whee.

LF3M fractal scale 3.
I am scale 2 , is that ok
No.
LF3M fractal scale 3.
guildies logon.
Hey guys starting fractal scale 6 party come join me.

One day of this and I realize I shouldn't bother.
I returned to farming the improved dungeon loot to farm silvers and retire my char when the gold gets more expensive.

This might help a little bit:
http://gw2lfg.com/

It hasn't reached a critical mass yet, but I've found a few groups off of it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on November 20, 2012, 09:30:13 AM
Didja hear:  People parked their alts in the cave where the chest spawns, and when the Ancient was downed they just cycled through the alts and looted the chest with each one.

????


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 21, 2012, 12:56:01 AM
What are you supposed to do with the items from the investigation quests? They're just sitting in my inventory, and... yeah.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Sky on November 22, 2012, 10:26:30 AM
I like that they put out a post-event survey.

I eviscerated the event on the survey.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 22, 2012, 07:24:56 PM
I like that they put out a post-event survey.

I eviscerated the event on the survey.

Survey still gives me error when i click on the link.
Fuck those losers.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 23, 2012, 12:03:06 AM
This event pissed me off so much I cancelled my subscription over it!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Morfiend on November 23, 2012, 12:58:40 AM
No angst over Agony and Agony Resist?

Hasnt every game that ever had resist stats ended up deciding it was a bad idea?

It feels like the dev team and the post release team are two different teams with two different mission statements. Its sad cause the one that worked on the game up to release had me. The post release direction of the game makes me sad.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Ingmar on November 23, 2012, 01:05:39 AM
It is interesting that they looked at radiance from LOTRO - a failed system that they said "our bad" and ditched - and decided they should use it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Morfiend on November 23, 2012, 01:21:24 AM
It is interesting that they looked at radiance from LOTRO - a failed system that they said "our bad" and ditched - and decided they should use it.

Or resists in WoW. Also "our bad, not fun removing".


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on November 23, 2012, 02:07:17 AM
Based on the speed at which they removed radiance from LOTRO, it should only take half a decade or so until they go back on this decision.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on November 23, 2012, 02:15:30 AM
It is interesting that they looked at radiance from LOTRO - a failed system that they said "our bad" and ditched - and decided they should use it.

Or resists in WoW. Also "our bad, not fun removing".

Let's keep it simple on how clueless they were at Fractals:

1. Stupid Place for a Dungeon Entrance
If A.net actually understood how things work on the ground they wouldn't  have placed Fractal Entrance on Lion's Arch.
Lion's Arch is already overpopulated by Trading Post, Forge users, AFKers and people using Heart of the Mists as free teleport hub. It's a mistake to place a new content dungeon entry in an already overcrowded zone. This leads to number 2

2.Disconnected? Lost a party member? Too bad.
You cannot reform a broken party in Fractals. Leaving a Fractal instance means you have to find the correct 'Lion's Arch overflow' to rejoin the instance. This will be fixed in the future, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why NOBODY, NOT A SINGLE PERSON had this problem with CLASSIC dungeons when placed outside Lion's Arch! Shows what kind of crowd testing they've done with their 'future content'. Lost Shores live event was a lagfest too, but it wasn't when Arena.net were testing it, cause they ran it with 50 people. (I'm assuming here, but I sincerely doubt they experienced lag and other LIVE issues when testing it. And gave it a 'Pass')

And the biggest joke was watching their Swamp Fractal promotional video run, talking about 'team work' to overcome puzzle events - while blatantly using a developer's teleport cheat to show you how it's done. Well trolled, A.net.

Other than the above and player segregation through fractal difficulty level - I've no complaints.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: KallDrexx on November 23, 2012, 09:47:01 AM
heh, I haven't logged in in about 3 weeks and I just found a survey email in my spam box.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on December 06, 2012, 03:57:02 PM
FYI for anyone who disconnected during the event: today they're apparently sending out boxes of event rewards to everyone they saw as participating but not opening the box. I don't know where that cut-off is, since I didn't disconnect, I just got bored and logged out part way through the whole thing. Will update tonight to see if I get a chest or not.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Shatter on December 06, 2012, 07:10:33 PM
FYI for anyone who disconnected during the event: today they're apparently sending out boxes of event rewards to everyone they saw as participating but not opening the box. I don't know where that cut-off is, since I didn't disconnect, I just got bored and logged out part way through the whole thing. Will update tonight to see if I get a chest or not.

I played that day but didnt attend the event and got the rewards :)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: sachiel on December 06, 2012, 10:02:09 PM
FYI for anyone who disconnected during the event: today they're apparently sending out boxes of event rewards to everyone they saw as participating but not opening the box. I don't know where that cut-off is, since I didn't disconnect, I just got bored and logged out part way through the whole thing. Will update tonight to see if I get a chest or not.
HAHa, wife and I did the same thing; both got boxes.  No precursors. :/


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on December 07, 2012, 09:08:41 AM
I must have logged in my Mesmer for a bit during the event as I had one of these waiting for me.  Got a Big Juju which will be put to good use on my Necromancer.

I'd normally feel a little guilty about getting more than my share, but my Ranger's drops were utter shit despite attending the whole event.  It's nice to have gotten one exotic I can put to use out of it all.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Nija on December 07, 2012, 10:18:24 AM
Yeah, wow. Thanks for the heads up. I spent about 5 minutes in that zone nowhere NEAR a scheduled event. I got a package in the mail as well!

Shit items of course, but that's par for me.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Mosesandstick on December 07, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
I got a package as well, wasn't actually there for the final event. Got exotic gloves and a 20 slot bag I can use.

Ninja edit: Dammit rare gloves. Can't tell the difference.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on December 07, 2012, 02:24:34 PM
Sigh, no mail for me, probably since I was in wvw for the duration of the event  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on December 07, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
Huh. Yea, I got it too. I was online at the time, and was in zone before the major event, but steered WAY clear when the event was going on. Was lonely in Orr :-) Did both the first event and then phase 2.

Got a few ectoplasmables but did get the 20 slot box which is nice and the shell which is nicer.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: murdoc on December 07, 2012, 05:14:26 PM
I'm pretty surprised at this - I did about 30-45 min of the event and today got 2 named exotics, 2 ecto'd rares, the Karka Shell +25 to all and the 20 slot box.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Brogarn on December 08, 2012, 07:26:50 AM
I'm pretty surprised at this - I did about 30-45 min of the event and today got 2 named exotics, 2 ecto'd rares, the Karka Shell +25 to all and the 20 slot box.

Pretty close to what I got and I was nowhere near the event.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on December 09, 2012, 01:08:38 AM

I was asleep, it being something like 2-3 AM in the morning, and this makes me no better aligned towards the retarded concept of one off events.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on December 09, 2012, 04:13:19 PM
I like this game, and I want it to succeed, but wow what a mess.  It's beginning to feel like a trolling.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on December 09, 2012, 06:33:41 PM
well. if you don't do fractals, there's nothing else to do for pve nowadays.
b4 i stopped logging, it was either dungeon running for tokens (already decided what armor to wear with proper rune) or run fractals, looking for grp, hoping to get leveled without disconnect.

if you don't enjoy world v world or structured pvp, there's not much else, i'm afraid.
One look on their 'end game crafting' I decided it's not even worth pondering about.
Terrible goldsink for a skin and minor stat upgrade. Fuck that.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Kageru on December 10, 2012, 07:49:35 AM

It would be worse if the cat-ass reward was powerful. It's fine as a visible achievement.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on December 10, 2012, 09:10:37 AM
well. if you don't do fractals, there's nothing else to do for pve nowadays.
b4 i stopped logging, it was either dungeon running for tokens (already decided what armor to wear with proper rune) or run fractals, looking for grp, hoping to get leveled without disconnect.

if you don't enjoy world v world or structured pvp, there's not much else, i'm afraid.
One look on their 'end game crafting' I decided it's not even worth pondering about.
Terrible goldsink for a skin and minor stat upgrade. Fuck that.


I love WvW.  I'm lucky enough to be on a great server and in an amazing guild for it.  I also enjoy "the world," and will be leveling many alts.  I'll be in this game awhile barring an NGE event (which they flirt with in every patch).  That or I'll finally get sick of the RMT manipulations.

Crafting for leveling is fun, but when my characters hit 80 I'm done...couldn't care less about legendaries.  As far as dungeons go, It's only fair that this game get the same criticism SWTOR got:  LFD.  WoW spoiled the MMO world in this area, and it should've been coming with every MMO launch ever since.  Even with LFD though, it seems fractals would still be a pain to manage.

I mean, F.O.T.M?  How is that not a troll?  :awesome_for_real:



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Zetor on December 10, 2012, 09:17:03 AM
Yep, they really need to implement LFD -- it's my biggest gripe right now. One of the Anet people said that "they are working on it", but that can mean anything.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on December 10, 2012, 09:43:25 AM
Terrible goldsink for a skin and minor stat upgrade. Fuck that.
Which makes it true to GW1 (excepting there is any stat change at all).  I like this model more than endless mudflation.  If I like the look of something, I can work towards it.  If not, I can completely ignore it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: rk47 on December 10, 2012, 09:44:19 AM
Quote
"they are working on it", but that can mean anything.

Fuckers been working on that Fractal disconnect = shit out of luck for 2 weeks
I wouldn't get my hopes up at all.



Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on December 10, 2012, 10:03:16 AM
Wintersday starts Friday.  This is going to be a major test for them, and I hope they know it.  If they can get it right, hopefully then they'll have enough goodwill to worry less about loot rage and more about these fixes and features we're waiting for.

If this is another mad rush for amazing loot in a multi-hour, bugged, one-time-but-not-really-one-time event, made worse with a botched fix, we might as well forget the whole thing.  Credibility is teetering as it is.

In other words, do what they did with Halloween, and not Lost Shores.  Shit, just do the exact same thing.  Mad Santa dungeon, Christmas maze of loot, and jumping puzzle on a spinning Christmas tree or giant Menorah.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Shatter on December 10, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
Wintersday starts Friday.  This is going to be a major test for them, and I hope they know it.  If they can get it right, hopefully then they'll have enough goodwill to worry less about loot rage and more about these fixes and features we're waiting for.

If this is another mad rush for amazing loot in a multi-hour, bugged, one-time-but-not-really-one-time event, made worse with a botched fix, we might as well forget the whole thing.  Credibility is teetering as it is.

In other words, do what they did with Halloween, and not Lost Shores.  Shit, just do the exact same thing.  Mad Santa dungeon, Christmas maze of loot, and jumping puzzle on a spinning Christmas tree or giant Menorah.

Im ready to holiday cheer event my ass off, hopefully it doesnt suck schweaty santa balls.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on December 10, 2012, 01:20:58 PM
This will be Halloween, not Lost Shores. It's a holiday event, and will follow that model. The test of having learned their lesson will be future new content, not one off holiday events.

Not to say that Halloween didn't have a fucked up one time reward thing either. They patched in that the hat dispenser would stay live for a few days due to the hurricane. He was intended to only be giving that little cosmetic hat to people who participated in the final event.

Nobody really cared since town clothing is an abandoned concept anyways.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Maledict on December 10, 2012, 01:55:12 PM
Town clothing is an odd one. It's clearly something that isn't working and no-one is interested in it - but GW1 was full of crazy / silly outfits and people went mad for them because you could use them when actually playing the game. Not sure why they are trying to be more 'serious' with GW2 but all I know is if I could wear a top hat in dungeons they would have my money right now.

(Assuming of course they fixed their normal dungeons so they weren't the most abominable wrecks I have ever experienced in an MMO)


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: kildorn on December 10, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
Town Clothes don't work in GW2 because you can't fight with them on, so nobody ever actually bothers hitting the button. And there are so few outfits that there is not even a collection aspect to it. If I want to make my character pretty, I get armor sets for it. It just seems like a misunderstanding of the town outfits people wore in GW1.

Give me a town slot item that makes me look like an Ooze or something whenever I'm in town and I'd be all the fuck over that. I have no interest in the random temp potions though.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on December 10, 2012, 04:47:33 PM
Nobody really cared since town clothing is an abandoned concept anyways.

Ya seriously.  I wore them for a bit until realizing I couldn't pop my swiftnesses when running back and forth between TC and crafting stations.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Venkman on December 10, 2012, 07:49:22 PM
I thought I'd be addicted to this alot longer than it turned out I was. Maybe a brightest candle/fastest-burnout thing. At first I thought it was just time off from Thanksgiving. But after I finished Dishonored, I just couldn't find the fun anymore. Not doing Fractals, not doing PvP/WvW, not doing any dungeons, and all the events are really just designed for people who still like the game. Once I hit the wall which requires dedicated attention to the exclusion of everything else, I realized again just how incompatible my lifestyle is with these kinds of endgames  :-P

Ah well. I'll keep patching it because it's fun for a romp. And I certainly got my money's worth (the equivalent of 3+ Skyrims in time spent, for the same cost).


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Tmon on December 11, 2012, 08:55:09 AM
I'm in the same boat, I still play once in a while but my morning play times mean that almost any event is impossible due to empty zones, this means that I  have to level off of kills and hearts.  This in turn means that my lower level characters are too grindy to bother with and my max level Warrior is kind of pointless to play since I don't dungeon and don't find spvp or WvW especially compelling on him.  I expected all of that since I did play GW1 off and on since launch but it is kind of disapointing that the fun dropped off so fast.  On the upside I got some good solid play time out of my initial purchase and there's no sub to deal with so dropping in and out of the game isn't a big deal.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Lantyssa on December 11, 2012, 09:12:17 AM
I love the looks of the town clothes, but they're a hassle to switch in and out of.  My GW1 characters used those outfits all the time.  They also need a locker or Town Clothier so you can stash stuff you're not wearing.  Using up bank space isn't cutting it.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Nevermore on December 12, 2012, 11:43:20 AM
It's almost like they want you to buy more bank space.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: satael on December 12, 2012, 12:34:49 PM
They should put perma-swiftness to town clothes to make wearing them favorable in non-combat situations.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: proudft on December 12, 2012, 03:50:02 PM
Perma-strut would also be acceptable.


Title: Re: The Lost Shores - Nov 16-18
Post by: Crumbs on December 12, 2012, 05:10:46 PM
But if you die wearing town clothes, it's perma-death