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f13.net General Forums => Guild Wars 2 => Topic started by: rk47 on October 18, 2012, 08:56:42 PM



Title: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 18, 2012, 08:56:42 PM
Played him till lvl 48.
I'm not sure what's wrong with it... PVE doesn't seem to matter much to me, everything's fine, but when I get to World v World, this profession seems to lack a good kit.
His utility are mostly selfish buffs and his tool kit for elixirs are too random to be reliable.

Anyone has any build tip for this guy?


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Miasma on October 18, 2012, 09:33:25 PM
Engineer is kinda crappy until level 60 when you can buy the 30 trait extra grenade, then you switch to grenade kit with lots of carrion gear and just spam everything.  In WvW it's nice in the zerg or on defense but not something you would want to use for small group fighting.  For that I've heard there is a nice pistol build available once you can unlock penetrating shot but never used it myself.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 18, 2012, 09:38:15 PM
That's what I Thought as well, but I gave it a go (without the 30 trait) and the cast time plus half-loaded models annoys me as hell. What am I throwing it, and people are so mobile it's hard to land consistent hits. If I get too close, the play would just went sluggish, further fucking up the throwing accuracy.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Miasma on October 19, 2012, 09:59:17 AM
When I say the 30 trait I mean the one which is unlocked at level 60, it's the one that gives you an extra grenade.  On the way there is another trait that reduces the cooldowns of your grenades.  So I wouldn't bother with grenades until level 60 when you can unlock all that.  In spvp all those traits are unlocked but you wouldn't want to do grenades in spvp because people are smart enough to move.  I wasn't happy with my engineer until level 60 and wished I had rolled something else.  Other classes seemed to be able to do far more and do it far easier.

I just looked at a builder and the description was "chance" to throw extra grenade for the 30 trait, so maybe they nerfed it since last I played, that would really suck.

Be sure to switch to grenade kit underwater, some people don't realize you can do that, grenades are really strong underwater.  For targetting remember that you can push the same button a second time to throw the grenades, you don't have to mouse click.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Zetor on October 19, 2012, 10:04:37 AM
I can't imagine playing grenadier without fastcast (though double-tapping can work if you have good 'trigger discipline').


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Sky on October 19, 2012, 02:36:48 PM
Heck, I wouldn't be able to play longbow warrior without double-taps.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Draegan on October 19, 2012, 02:47:53 PM
I quit my Engineer at 71 because in W3 the spread of the grenades, plus the travel time make it incredibly irritating as fuck.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on October 19, 2012, 02:48:22 PM
Engineer needs work. Quit mine at 39.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 20, 2012, 04:31:54 AM
Yeah honestly, I can't see any advantage to this. I ran a Staff Guardian who just zerk his way with autoattack that hits 1500 per target in frontal cone (max of 5).
Even with 600 range, it felt more comfortable and accurate than what grenades can offer me at even 600 range due to the throwing lag.

Ditched this class.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Nija on October 21, 2012, 06:35:55 PM
This video may help everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9IdpgUJCvs#!


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 21, 2012, 08:28:47 PM
This video may help everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9IdpgUJCvs#!

 :awesome_for_real:

Ah. There's still. Hope.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Threash on October 21, 2012, 08:42:31 PM
That's insane, that guy is putting out as much damage as my thief with over twice the hit points.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 21, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
That's insane, that guy is putting out as much damage as my thief with over twice the hit points.

Will level my guy to 60 and see how it goes. He's definitely 30 on grenade trait.
I'm kinda bored with my Guardian anyway.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on October 22, 2012, 08:07:47 AM
Well that was fun to watch.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: murdoc on October 22, 2012, 08:40:37 AM
One of the commentators said it best "And Engineer isn't even OP. I need to l2p my class :l"


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Threash on October 22, 2012, 09:36:29 AM
Some people can make any class look op.  Good editing helps too.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: tazelbain on October 22, 2012, 09:43:33 AM
Class balance is shit.  Lets not pretend otherwise.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Threash on October 22, 2012, 09:49:38 AM
I think it's pretty damn good actually, and even if it isn't i've never heard anyone say engineers are op.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: tazelbain on October 22, 2012, 10:55:21 AM
Right... And what class is your main and do you sPVP or WvW more?


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Threash on October 22, 2012, 12:35:00 PM
Thief is my main character that i do world pvp with, spvp i play everything equally.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Draegan on October 22, 2012, 12:55:05 PM
The people fighting that Engineer looked awful.  But grenades are fantastic at close range though, no time to arc and spread out.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Threash on October 22, 2012, 01:01:22 PM
Good pvp videos always make the opposition look horrible.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Draegan on October 22, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
I only watched the first part and it seems not all those guys were level 80 and none of them dodged once.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: murdoc on October 22, 2012, 04:06:07 PM
Yesterday I would have made a good video of 2 Thieves attacking me and a Mesmer would have made a good video of how bad he owned my ass. Highlights are highlights, but that was still a good Engineer video.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 22, 2012, 09:10:16 PM
Those controls and kit swapping aren't learned from PVE. Takes a lot of finesse to do that compared to an Endure Pain Warrior.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Furiously on October 22, 2012, 09:13:50 PM
He also had to go through 60 levels without targeted grenades. I can't imagine the pain.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Nija on October 22, 2012, 09:19:07 PM
There are plenty of level 80 guys that he rolls in that video. It's hard to tell how geared they are.

There are a lot of highlight reel things that I generally don't care about, but that stand at godsword (or whichever battleground he was in - the north most supply camp) was amazing.

Having played on ET for about a month and a half I'm familiar with the FoE (and FoER) guys. They are pretty solid overall - granted that probably wasn't their A squad.

He also had to go through 60 levels without targeted grenades. I can't imagine the pain.

Here's the secret for Engineers. Play with 2 friends - all of you make engineers. Get to level 11 solo. Pick up the flame thrower first. In options, uncheck auto targetting. This way you can flame thrower where you point. Now go flamethrow the fuck out of events and various zones. It's hilariously effective.

You don't want to have more than 3 people though. Any more and you'll have problems tagging mobs and getting exp/credit.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Draegan on October 23, 2012, 09:12:30 AM
FT is great until 60.  Then at 60 you can get berserker gear and GM grenades.



Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on October 23, 2012, 08:57:25 PM
FT is great until 60.  Then at 60 you can get berserker gear and GM grenades.



Yea they changed the stability bonus for the Flamethrower GM trait with perma might...
 There's really no arguments from me when it comes to traiting for GM Grenadier.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Crumbs on November 08, 2012, 09:16:04 AM
Just a little preachin for the choir:  got back into my Engineer.  Once I found out about fastcast grenades it was on.  Such a fun class, although after the Necromancer it seems so squishy. 

Also:  Zetor, TC misses you.  All they play in Lion's Arch now is Angelo Badalamenti music.   :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Zetor on November 08, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
Okay, so I may have gotten a bit carried away with levelling my monk alt in WOW. :why_so_serious: I'll be totally back for the Nov event, though!


Ontopic: grenades are fun, but bombs are crazay for solo pve. Bomb4 gives an aoe blind field, and bomb1 is basically a pbaoe attack that keeps going... and going... and going... It's easy to kite enemies and drop bombs in their paths too, which has a certain charm. I should totally rename my engineer 'Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight' -- except it probably wouldn't fit in the name field. :(


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on November 19, 2012, 12:16:57 PM

Ontopic: grenades are fun, but bombs are crazay for solo pve. Bomb4 gives an aoe blind field, and bomb1 is basically a pbaoe attack that keeps going... and going... and going... It's easy to kite enemies and drop bombs in their paths too, which has a certain charm. I should totally rename my engineer 'Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight' -- except it probably wouldn't fit in the name field. :(

Got my engineer main to 80 finally leveling off a mix of different skills just to try thing (although I spent a lot of time in flamethrower and grendaes).  Then last Thursday I discovered the bomb kit.  HOLY CRAP!  I'm taking out champions solo now.  PvP/WvW is hilarious as I'm beating folks substantially more geared than I am by running around dropping bombs while the idiots run into them.  Seriously I was going to give up on the class until I discovered the joy that is the bomb kit.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 19, 2012, 12:29:55 PM
I thought the casting animation and delayed explosions felt clunky and awkward and kept getting damn near killed trying to use bombs. It just plain threw off my timing and I couldn't wrap my mind around it. Since I'm just running around WvW on IoJ typically solo and outmanned on my mesmer these days (which is mostly pointless), maybe I'll get my 39 engineer built for bombs and play around with it more.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on November 19, 2012, 07:19:21 PM
the grenade is a finger killer. it's just not practical to play through a dungeon and spamming it like a maniac.
the recent patch made it still the best kit to have in PVE :(
at this point, the engineer is shelved while I just dungeon run with guardian and alt a warrior for shit and giggles.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Zetor on November 20, 2012, 02:09:40 AM
Wouldn't it be possible to use a macro for a gaming mouse/keyboard to make it so that when you're holding down "1" (or one of the mouse buttons), it actually presses "1" (or the mouse button assigned to "1") every second or so, kind of like a turbo switch on controllers? I don't think this would be bannable, since you're still pushing the button, and I remember reading somewhere that this sort of automation is OK.

edit: Just read the the official policy on 3rd party programs (https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/account/Policy-Third-Party-Programs), and it's a grey area depending on how you interpret the first question - not getting RSI does allow someone to play longer than getting RSI.  :awesome_for_real: OTOH I did read quite a few posts about engineers using such macros and not really worrying about it. Banning people who do this instead of actually macroing multiple abilities together / teleport hacking / botting / etc would probably not be a wise move from Anet.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2012, 02:19:30 AM
Well, i contemplated that... but really, it wasn't worth it.
I realize it was shit as gameplay and decided to go for Dual Pistol/Elixir Gun healer build that utilize a shit load of heals in dungeon and blowing up heal turret for constant area heals.
Geared in Prec / Vit / Healing , it was pretty fun seeing Regen up for 30 seconds and up.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on November 26, 2012, 06:52:17 AM
the grenade is a finger killer. it's just not practical to play through a dungeon and spamming it like a maniac.
the recent patch made it still the best kit to have in PVE :(
at this point, the engineer is shelved while I just dungeon run with guardian and alt a warrior for shit and giggles.

Yeah, having spent more time on my engineer I have come to the conclusion that it really is go grenades or go home.  My bomb build did OK in PvE and PvP, but the dps you can put out on a grenade build and the utility of stacking 20+stacks of vulnerability are hard to ignore.  I use a naga razor so the finger (thumb) strain is minimal. 

Having said that grenade/rifle is a pretty fun build, you can do some pretty amazing stuff once you get used to it.  i also recently discovered 6 set centaur runes + medkit = perma swiftness for your group, which is awesome in RvR.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 26, 2012, 09:52:57 AM
I tried the bombs again, btw, and really just dislike it. The bending over and dropping animation plus the bomb delay just felt so clunky and I couldn't get into any rhythm.

Anyways... I use Centaur runes on my mesmer and I love them, but it's probably doing my mesmer a disservice since he really has no bleeds with his build outside of the ones the phantasms apply, which I don't think benefits from runes. I could see them working really well with a rifle/grenade engineer while saving 10 points of talents from Speedy Kits and using them elsewhere.

Having fought the rare engineer on my mesmer, I could see a lot of them not using their rifle as the CC weapon it is. Frankly, they're easy to kill but I see things they could do be doing. Gives me ideas about how I could do it better (it's okay, I'm laughing at my arrogance in that sentence too). So I'm starting to get an itch to try this again since the Mesmer is pretty darned easy outside of Thief fights and I'm looking for a change of pace.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on November 26, 2012, 10:23:29 AM

Having fought the rare engineer on my mesmer, I could see a lot of them not using their rifle as the CC weapon it is. Frankly, they're easy to kill but I see things they could do be doing. Gives me ideas about how I could do it better (it's okay, I'm laughing at my arrogance in that sentence too). So I'm starting to get an itch to try this again since the Mesmer is pretty darned easy outside of Thief fights and I'm looking for a change of pace.

I find mesmers to be my most difficult 1v1, even worse than thieves.  Even when they are down their confusion stacking illusion is a pain.  it is compound by the fact in WvW it is very difficult to distinguish between a mesmer and his clones (compounded by the fact that tab targeting in this game is absolute shyte).  I have 1v1'd a few mesmers but I attribute my victories to their poor play rather than anything on my part.  In general it takes a lot of quick grenade switching to knock out the clones/illusions and then switching back to rifle to do enough cc to bring them down.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 26, 2012, 11:21:10 AM
I just want to give an a-fucking-men to your comment on tab targeting in this game. It's just terrible.

Thinking about it, even I have trouble with other mesmers. Thieves are still the most difficult for me, though. I've had them drop me in 2 seconds flat. And that damned spinning dagger elite easily takes out all my clones in short order making me a soft bag of xp. When I do get them on the ropes, they stealth for a few seconds, get healed back up to full, and take me out while all my tricks are on cool down. They're just ridiculous.

Anyways... ya... engineer... Giving it another look with a rifle/grenade build. You go 30/30 and maybe 10 in Alchemy? Or something else? Thinking I'll spec Speedy Kits until 60 or whenever I can get Centaur Runes.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Tyrnan on November 26, 2012, 11:31:08 AM
I love Speedy Kits on my Engi for general running about. Then I just switch to Kit Refinement for any kind of difficult fight, free Super Elixir when switching to Elixir Gun is just  :awesome_for_real:.  I actually find the Bomb Kit pretty good once you have the 10pt trait for larger explosion radius, the pulsing blind from the Smoke Bomb is pretty nice and the confuse and burning go nicely with my dual pistols.  Having said all that though I'm taking a break from it for a while before I develop RSI from the grenade spam  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Zetor on November 26, 2012, 11:36:42 AM
Speedy Kits is powerful, but annooooooying to use especially since it has a 5-second ICD. I can get permaswiftness effortlessly on my ele, and it's pretty huge in wvw - I'll have to look into those centaur runes for my engi!

Grenades are definitely borked design. Not only do they do the best sustained damage by FAR, but the .25sec cast time means that you really need to spam it like crazy (I really recommend a G15 or gaming mouse macro, if you have something like that - I personally bound my Deathadder's middle button click to "press 1, .26sec wait"x3) and latency can screw with you as well.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 26, 2012, 11:41:53 AM
I have a Naga, thankfully. I bought that thing 2 years ago? Something like that and now I can't play MMOs without it.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Tyrnan on November 26, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
Are they easy to use? The 7-12 buttons look like they'd be a bit awkward to reach, although I guess you wouldn't use those that much. And is it not a bit tiring on your thumb in a long session?

Thinking on the Engi a bit more, there really is just a tad too much button pressing.  I love the versatility of it and the active playstyle but with the grenade spam, constantly switching kits for Speedy Kits, constantly cycling between weapons/grenade kit/bomb kit/elixir gun, etc it just gets a bit much after a while.  Maybe I should just give in, roll a Warrior and faceroll everything instead.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 26, 2012, 12:11:52 PM
I don't use - or = for much (buttons 11 and 12) but I don't have a problem reaching them with my thumb. I usually reserve those for things I don't have to do often, like in a game that has mounts, that's where I'll put them. I can say that it's not for everyone, though. My thumb's fairly flexible and I have average sized hands so I have zero issue with it. But I know not everyone falls into that category and could see how it might not work out for people with larger hands. I'd try it out for a week. I think it's worth it if you can make it work for you.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Nebu on November 26, 2012, 12:12:13 PM
I have a Naga, thankfully. I bought that thing 2 years ago? Something like that and now I can't play MMOs without it.

Even a mouse with two additional side buttons (http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-RZ01-00151400-R3/dp/B002Q4U5DK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1353953495&sr=1-1&keywords=death+adder+mouse) and possibly a couple of top buttons is a huge improvement.  


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on November 26, 2012, 12:41:29 PM

Anyways... ya... engineer... Giving it another look with a rifle/grenade build. You go 30/30 and maybe 10 in Alchemy? Or something else? Thinking I'll spec Speedy Kits until 60 or whenever I can get Centaur Runes.

Why not keep speedy kits with centaur (I do)!  17 seconds of swiftness with my build on one key press (and I like the 15 point tool skill and there really isn't anything else worth getting at the first tier of tools).


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: sachiel on November 26, 2012, 01:18:48 PM
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/elementalist/Keyboard-and-the-Elementalist/first#post741965

Works for Engineer as well.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on November 26, 2012, 04:54:32 PM

Anyways... ya... engineer... Giving it another look with a rifle/grenade build. You go 30/30 and maybe 10 in Alchemy? Or something else? Thinking I'll spec Speedy Kits until 60 or whenever I can get Centaur Runes.

Why not keep speedy kits with centaur (I do)!  17 seconds of swiftness with my build on one key press (and I like the 15 point tool skill and there really isn't anything else worth getting at the first tier of tools).

While I do like 30/30+ 10 whatever, there's another tool trait I like...

Refined Kit - Switching to a kit creates an attack.
Switching to elixir gun invokes super elixir - AoE heal and Condition Cleanse. If you drop another Super Elixir, that's two AoE heal in 2 second. It's not even a regeneration boon so it stacks well.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 26, 2012, 05:33:30 PM
While I do like 30/30+ 10 whatever, there's another tool trait I like...

Refined Kit - Switching to a kit creates an attack.
Switching to elixir gun invokes super elixir - AoE heal and Condition Cleanse. If you drop another Super Elixir, that's two AoE heal in 2 second. It's not even a regeneration boon so it stacks well.


I was reading about that earlier, actually. You can spec to be very survivable now that I'm looking at the class a little differently.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Tyrnan on November 27, 2012, 02:43:30 AM
It's on a 20 second internal cooldown so if you stagger it with the 5 skill on the gun you can have a permanent HoT light field.  Another nice trick they have is if you have Elixir R slotted and are about to be downed you can throw it at your feet and self rez without needing to kill anything.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on November 27, 2012, 02:50:00 AM
It's on a 20 second internal cooldown so if you stagger it with the 5 skill on the gun you can have a permanent HoT light field.  Another nice trick they have is if you have Elixir R slotted and are about to be downed you can throw it at your feet and self rez without needing to kill anything.

Tried that at Twilight Arbor...good god I hate those dick-vines section. It was smooth sailing after that, but I always ate a death in that encounter.
And the insistence of the party to skip the three behemoths always pisses me off. When people die and respawn, they have to rerun the gauntlet. One knockdown and you're fucked. I could spam 4 dodges in a row with Elixir R or use Human Racial 20 sec stability, but that shit is still risky to pull off.



Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 27, 2012, 02:59:18 PM
I don't believe in skipping anything.  Most of it just doesn't take that long to kill, and it makes life easier if something goes wrong a bit later.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2012, 03:08:04 PM
Download autohotkey and load up this script:

Code:
$1::
loop
{
if getkeystate("1", "p") ;if a button is Physically held down by the user.
{
send, {1}
sleep, 100
}
else
{
break
}
}
return


All it does is send the 1 key repeatedly as you hold down the button.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Severian on November 29, 2012, 04:03:54 PM
Download autohotkey and load up this script:

All it does is send the 1 key repeatedly as you hold down the button.

I'm using AHK for Combat Mode (the original release), do you know if/where this can be integrated into that script?


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Draegan on November 30, 2012, 09:49:07 AM
You can run as many scripts as you want.  Just c/p this into notepad, save it with an .ahk extension and click on it to run.  In your task tray or whatever it's called, you'll see to AHK scripts running.

Change all the 1's to whatever key you want to make turbo.  When I raided in RIFT I had 1-4 running turbo mode.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on November 30, 2012, 10:10:41 AM
Gave it another shot. Back on the shelf. The class just feels to clunky and frankly underpowered. And throwing grenades gets boring quick. Which is not something I ever thought I'd say. Ever.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: satael on November 30, 2012, 10:47:53 AM
Download autohotkey and load up this script:

Code:
$1::
loop
{
if getkeystate("1", "p") ;if a button is Physically held down by the user.
{
send, {1}
sleep, 100
}
else
{
break
}
}
return


All it does is send the 1 key repeatedly as you hold down the button.

Just remember to turn it off you want to use siege like trebs or catapults (if you macro the 1-5 keys that is)


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on December 03, 2012, 07:28:31 AM
Download autohotkey and load up this script:

Code:
$1::
loop
{
if getkeystate("1", "p") ;if a button is Physically held down by the user.
{
send, {1}
sleep, 100
}
else
{
break
}
}
return


All it does is send the 1 key repeatedly as you hold down the button.

Draegan, than you so much for this.  i mean it, my thumb was actually hurting me from having to spam 1 on my naga like a freak.  This has made my life SOOOO much better in PvP and PvE.

Also:  apparently mentioning this on the official forums will get your forum account suspended.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on December 05, 2012, 08:41:13 AM
I found this absolutely hilarious and even had a Thief last night in /t complain about getting owned with this build:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/engineer/The-TANKCAT-build-Prybar-some-faces/first

Every time I think I'm all done with the engineer... something pulls me back to tinkering with it.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Crumbs on December 05, 2012, 09:04:06 AM

Every time I think I'm all done with the engineer... something pulls me back to tinkering with it.

For me it comes down to:

1. I like blowing stuff up
2. The impressive number of options with the kits.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on December 05, 2012, 11:56:53 AM
I found this absolutely hilarious and even had a Thief last night in /t complain about getting owned with this build:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/engineer/The-TANKCAT-build-Prybar-some-faces/first

Every time I think I'm all done with the engineer... something pulls me back to tinkering with it.

I was thinking of trying this out....  Is it good?  I will need to re-gear though...


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Brogarn on December 05, 2012, 12:11:52 PM
Haven't tried it myself yet so can only answer with hearsay that so far is good.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Zetor on December 05, 2012, 12:27:47 PM
If you're an asura engineer, you could probably combo it with Pain Inverter for even more confuse/retal action. (not in spvp, obv)


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on December 14, 2012, 09:28:42 PM
Can someone explain to me why they buffed thieves and nerfed engineers?  This makes zero sense.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: vex on December 15, 2012, 07:47:49 AM
Can someone explain to me why they buffed thieves and nerfed engineers?  This makes zero sense.

Because it's patch day.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on December 15, 2012, 05:48:43 PM
because sigil of water = 30% dps increase.



Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Threash on December 15, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
Isn't that a chance to heal?


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: kildorn on December 15, 2012, 07:41:05 PM
Isn't that a chance to heal?

Yes. I don't know why people keep whining that poor sigils are bad. Sigil of Fire is awesome on a grenade. But mostly it's a response to the idea that engineers were Grenades or GTFO. I think we all saw this coming a bit when grenades outperformed every other kit by quite a bit.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on December 16, 2012, 01:42:31 AM
Isn't that a chance to heal?

No really, I'm pointing out that it's really stupid of them to assume all Weapons Sigil slotted will always be dps Sigils.
Until they actually gave Stat-bonus from the equipped main hand weapon - Engineers still has to go Fire Sigil for Grenade to catch up to the lost DPS.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on December 16, 2012, 10:58:48 AM
Isn't that a chance to heal?

Yes. I don't know why people keep whining that poor sigils are bad. Sigil of Fire is awesome on a grenade. But mostly it's a response to the idea that engineers were Grenades or GTFO. I think we all saw this coming a bit when grenades outperformed every other kit by quite a bit.

It outperforms the other kits because every other kit is terrible.  Welp, time to fire up my elementalist.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Phred on December 17, 2012, 12:40:40 PM


It outperforms the other kits because every other kit is terrible. 

I think this is the plan. They wont stop until every class's options are reduced to common terribleness.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Nija on December 17, 2012, 01:07:13 PM
What's the new hotness for Engineer? I'm thinking of finishing off my level 65 Engy but I need some inspiration.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on December 17, 2012, 05:12:17 PM
What's the new hotness for Engineer? I'm thinking of finishing off my level 65 Engy but I need some inspiration.

Nothing. If you read the patch notes - the 'enlightened devs' described the Engineer as a dude with 'EXTREME versatility' that comes with a price: His normal weapons attacks does less damage etc.
But then you read further down and see them describe Elementalist as 'King of Versatility'

 :awesome_for_real:

So yeah, they can shove 'extreme versatility' up their asses. While Engineers sacrifice one utility slot for a kit, the Elementalists just put on a weapon and gain all Attunement attack set + Utilities.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: sachiel on December 17, 2012, 07:20:18 PM
What's the new hotness for Engineer? I'm thinking of finishing off my level 65 Engy but I need some inspiration.

Nothing. If you read the patch notes - the 'enlightened devs' described the Engineer as a dude with 'EXTREME versatility' that comes with a price: His normal weapons attacks does less damage etc.
But then you read further down and see them describe Elementalist as 'King of Versatility'

 :awesome_for_real:

So yeah, they can shove 'extreme versatility' up their asses. While Engineers sacrifice one utility slot for a kit, the Elementalists just put on a weapon and gain all Attunement attack set + Utilities.

Yeah, well there's only one ele trait spec (0/10/0/30/30) which isn't gimptastic that works for ele's with one set of weapons with only melee range as an option... and that's about it.  So yeah, extreme versatility.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: Ingmar on December 17, 2012, 07:23:32 PM
Nothing. If you read the patch notes - the 'enlightened devs' described the Engineer as a dude with 'EXTREME versatility' that comes with a price: His normal weapons attacks does less damage etc.

WTF? ANet class balance people apparently have a DAOC-era view of class balance? You were only supposed to copy the good parts of DAOC.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: rk47 on December 17, 2012, 07:30:22 PM
Full quote:

Quote
   Warrior
        We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

    Guardian
        The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

    Ranger
        The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

    Engineer
        The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

    Thief
        Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

    Mesmer
        Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

    Ele
        We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elementalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

    Necro
        The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

Notice they never mentioned pets.

Going forward

    Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.
    AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.


Title: Re: Engineer - Not getting it.
Post by: amiable on December 18, 2012, 09:44:23 AM
It really is a headscratcher.  The general consensus is that Engineers are pretty bad, yet they nerfed the one halfway decent spec into uselessness.  Meanwhile perma-invisible thrives were buffed.   :awesome_for_real:

Edit:  this happens to me with alarming frequency:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Zw8vNJVvg