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Title: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: statisticalfool on June 06, 2012, 09:38:45 AM I have to say, this is the most encouraging thing I've read:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6262208/Patch_103_Design_Preview-6_6_2012#blog This feels pretty solidly like they get what's wrong. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Sjofn on June 06, 2012, 10:03:19 AM Kinda surprised that the minions of hell are no longer going to get stronger.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: cironian on June 06, 2012, 10:10:23 AM Don't they also get more HP? Seems like that would remain, so all that would be patched out is the damage increase. Because being one hit killed just for being in a party is no fun.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Malakili on June 06, 2012, 10:36:25 AM Don't they also get more HP? Seems like that would remain, so all that would be patched out is the damage increase. Because being one hit killed just for being in a party is no fun. Yeah, this is it. They are just taking out the damage part, the HP part will still be in. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: apocrypha on June 06, 2012, 10:44:34 AM Sounds excellent. Hope it comes soon and hope that the last paragraph includes some fixes to the AH interface.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Rokal on June 06, 2012, 10:59:17 AM Lots of really good changes in there, pretty surprising. I'd prefer to see bosses drop the same amount of loot they do now, rather than the same amount of loot champion packs drop though. Killing 5-8 champion pacts through a few zones on the way to a boss and then being showered with loot if you beat the boss is a fun cycle. If boss drops aren't notably different than champion drops, the reward at the end of that cycle won't be as addictive.
Another reason you don't see people continuing past bosses is that they often end acts. Continuing on means a huge difficulty ramp up currently *and* you lose all your NV stacks :uhrr:. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Paelos on June 06, 2012, 11:18:06 AM The Nephalem change suggests that they still don't understand that people want to farm bosses because that's part of the fun.
They keep trying to force us into the RNG packs which I'm not a huge proponent of, other than a buff builder. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 06, 2012, 11:22:03 AM I don't know, boss runs are fun but I'd tire out of "act IV Diablo run" really fast. The rng packs are a pita sometimes but they do add some randomness.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: kildorn on June 06, 2012, 11:32:58 AM I honestly find the bosses pretty boring after a few kills. They're static events compared to the far harder RNG of the elite pack with random friends. As far as effort to kill goes, boss < champ pack < elite pack < belial
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Rokal on June 06, 2012, 11:42:03 AM NV stack boss runs means you're not just killing bosses though, you're also killing champion/elite packs. The typical Inferno butcher run starts at Halls of Agony 2 and runs all the way to butcher. Four maps full of champions/elites followed by a boss.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: kildorn on June 06, 2012, 11:43:13 AM But this new system will just jack up the number of rare drops involved in that run?
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Maledict on June 06, 2012, 11:46:16 AM But this new system will just jack up the number of rare drops involved in that run? Nope - only if you have 5 stacks, which generally you aim to reach as you hit the boss to speed up the run. I have to say, I think they need to shorten times a bit. More than 20 minutes for a farm run just isn't that much fun and starts to feel like I'm running groups in WoW. They should be aiming for 15 to 20 minute farm runs IMO, no longer than that. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: statisticalfool on June 06, 2012, 11:54:03 AM Nephalem Valor doesn't carry act to act? That's kind of...bad.
So I guess the idea is that you start with 5 stacks for a mid-act boss? And then rock out till the end? Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Malakili on June 06, 2012, 12:24:01 PM Nephalem Valor doesn't carry act to act? That's kind of...bad. So I guess the idea is that you start with 5 stacks for a mid-act boss? And then rock out till the end? Yeah, this is really bad, my feeling is that from a server it starts a "new game" when you start a new act. This is a guess, the fact that you can't arbitrarily Waypoint between acts like you used to in D2 is what first gave me this idea. And since NV goes away with a new game, it goes away when you switch acts. Yeah, it seems like you'd want to do a mid act boss, then carry on to the end, but sometimes the time between major bosses is actually pretty significant, certainly much more time than I would like to invest in a single loot farming run. That being said, I don't hate what they are doing (even though I don't think it makes a lot of sense), because they are also increasing the loot on the random elite packs, so it evens out loot wise, and I'm more or less happy to just dungeon crawl for loot. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 06, 2012, 12:25:38 PM also remember though we are losing the stacking damage for grouping so runs will be a lot faster overall.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Ingmar on June 06, 2012, 12:28:08 PM No damage buff on multiplayer joins is a huge boon to pet WDs.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Thrawn on June 06, 2012, 12:49:12 PM No damage buff on multiplayer joins is a huge boon to pet WDs. and any melee class in hardcore. One reason I turned away from HC a bit was because I like Barbarian, but joining 4 player games just greatly increases the chance I would get killed. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Rokal on June 06, 2012, 12:53:05 PM But this new system will just jack up the number of rare drops involved in that run? There is the potential to get more drops total. Killing elite/champion packs at 5 stacks will always drop a rare, so it'll be worthwhile to kill them instead of just B-lining for the boss. I'm not complaining that I'll get less loot, I'm complaining that boss kills with 5 stacks of NV will be less rewarding than I'd like. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: 01101010 on June 06, 2012, 01:05:50 PM Quote Current repair costs at level 60 are barely noticeable, and because of that we see a lot of people wonder if “graveyard zerging” tough enemies or “chain rezzing allies on a boss” is intended gameplay – it definitely is not. To help solve the issue we evaluated a number of new death mechanics, such as just allowing the resurrection timer to increase even higher, disallowing resurrection during boss fights, or putting a debuff on you when you resurrect (such as reduced combat effectiveness). Ultimately we felt that increasing repair costs was the best solution that preserves the fast paced style of the game. Repair costs on level 60 items are going to go up a lot. Our goal is the next time a player is graveyard zerging a boss, it should occur to them that “this is probably not an efficient way to go about things”. We’re currently evaluating repair costs between 4x and 6x their current values. Umm... what if you don't, in fact die? You still occur gear dmg - so even if you don't graveyard zerg or whatver the fuck they want to call it, you are still going to get hit and take dmg even without dying. Soooo, the cost of NOT dying is going go up by "a lot" also. Seems a bit of an overreach - for melee characters at least. How about up the durability loss on death? Actually make it about the dying instead of "oh I have to farm 2 hours to be able to fight Azmo in Inferno because of the repair bill." Also it feels a little bit like Bliz's backhanded way of taking more gold from you and making the RMT AH a bit more appealing. Bastards... Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Arinon on June 06, 2012, 01:56:09 PM Most of that stuff looks great but I agree that raising repair costs by 4x-6x is terrible. I lose almost 10k when I repair from yellow right now. I also die a lot. I'd rather struggle in Act 3/4 and race against the NV buff timer than go to sleep farming Act 1 (which can drop the best gear after the patch) because the risk of dying is nearly zero and the returns are the same.
On the other hand I think the MP change means that everything is going to be doing at least 15% less damage than I'm used to. Pretty huge. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Paelos on June 06, 2012, 02:39:19 PM If they adjust damage I'm less concerned about the death penalties.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Musashi on June 06, 2012, 03:27:09 PM The death penalties may sound harsh. But I think, reading between the lines here, that they're meant more to combat botting by making it less cost effective.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Xanthippe on June 06, 2012, 03:35:19 PM What is the death penalty?
I read they are upping repair costs 4 to 6x. How is that purely a death penalty? Upping repair costs means taking more money from the players whether they die or not. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Rokal on June 06, 2012, 03:51:22 PM The vast majority of durability loss is from dying.
Looks like "first time" boss kill loot is also coming for Nightmare and Hell kills :heart: Quote from: Jay Wilson This was my decision, and I'll start by saying that Wyatt and Andrew have talked me out of it. In a future patch (not 1.0.3) we'll add this. But so you know my reasoning I think this just moves the problem. Design intent is that at end-game we want you to stack NV and 'then' kill bosses to make farming loot more interesting. To facilitate this bosses have to stop dropping tons of rares 'at some point'. My worry was that if it was at Inferno everyone would be like 'WTF why Inferno hardest difficulty with worst loot!?!??!' instead of the current complaint. The reason I've decided my decision was wrong is the gap that exists between Normal first time drops and the NV farming of Inferno. Lots of bad decisions with D3, but at least they're fixing them. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: kildorn on June 06, 2012, 04:54:12 PM What is the death penalty? I read they are upping repair costs 4 to 6x. How is that purely a death penalty? Upping repair costs means taking more money from the players whether they die or not. The wear and tear from death zerging something is a crapload more than just randomly killing shit. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Llyse on June 06, 2012, 05:14:50 PM Is 1.0.3 patching today/now or a future date?
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Lantyssa on June 06, 2012, 05:21:59 PM A Bliz dev flat out admitting a bad call? I give him props for that right there.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: jakonovski on June 06, 2012, 11:11:48 PM Changes seem pretty good.
Probably too late for me to excited again, especially since a broken PSU put me on a forced break from PC gaming. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Flinky on June 06, 2012, 11:43:51 PM Is 1.0.3 patching today/now or a future date? "Later this month" Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Murgos on June 07, 2012, 05:00:42 AM The Nephalem change suggests that they still don't understand that people want to farm bosses because that's part of the fun. They keep trying to force us into the RNG packs which I'm not a huge proponent of, other than a buff builder. I don't think that's what they are saying. I think they are saying is, "ONLY running bosses is boring and you will burn out. Here is some incentive to just play through whole areas and have a little more variety in your life." Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: 01101010 on June 07, 2012, 06:10:14 AM What is the death penalty? I read they are upping repair costs 4 to 6x. How is that purely a death penalty? Upping repair costs means taking more money from the players whether they die or not. 10% I believe from a death. I have to toy around with it, but my cost of dying seems very similar to running through a zone and taking on elite packs, including dungeons in the zone. Rough estimate has it around 1100 gold for either. I just hope there is some flag on it that comes from ON DEATH as opposed to ON DMG. Hell, I'd be ok if they upped the durability loss percent on death and mildly increase the cost of repairs arcoss the board. say 30% on death and a 30% increase in cost of all repairs. Then as an incentive, give the Blacksmith a repair ability for 10% discount - 20% if you have him capped. I still feel this is going to end badly. Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Amaron on June 07, 2012, 03:03:30 PM The patch looks so good I've lost all interest in playing until it's out. I won't give them any props though. The inferno drop changes were 100% obvious from week 1 in. It's a simple data change that should of been hot fixed eons ago. The mob damage in act2-4 was some routine basic statistics (drop rate) and arithmetic. I hate spreadsheet game design but it's like they didn't even run the math on some of this stuff.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Rokal on June 07, 2012, 03:11:03 PM It's a simple data change that should of been hot fixed eons ago. This is Blizzard we're talking about... the only fast patches/hotfixes you will ever see are for "exploits" in their eyes. Why would you expect them to make changes to D3 quickly when they update at a snail's pace with all their other games and took 6-11 years (depending on how you are counting) to make an unambitious Diablo sequel?Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Amaron on June 07, 2012, 04:43:10 PM I definitely didn't expect it to change. I just wanted to vent at business as usual.
Title: Re: 1.0.3 Patch Preview Post by: Rokal on June 07, 2012, 05:01:20 PM I just wanted to vent at business as usual. I was actually doing the same with my post to be fair. |