f13.net

I skipped all the betas and haven't actually read much about the classes so i am completely blank as to what to play.  I'm going darkside, but i'd like to hear about all classes if possible.

Do you want to shoot people, or lightsaber it up?

I wish I could help you but I am waffling between like 4 different classes :P

Oh, i guess i prefer melee to ranged or magic but i am keeping an open mind.

Shamelessly ripped from Reddit.  A WoW class comparison.  

Image explaining all the classes:

Using a gun or lightsaber has no bearing if you are melee or ranged.


-edit-

Shield Specialist / Shield Tech (tank) - Pally tank w/o HoPo but more dot focused - mid ranged tank <--- that's wrong, we have one fucking DoT.

Thanks, some of those charts are quite helpful.

Yeah - that list isnt that accurate really. For example, the IA plays more like a rogue than a Sith assassin in dps mode - it has backstabbing, ambush, enhanced stealth capabilities and an energy bar. As a healer it's a cross between a Druid and a paladin - it doesn't have anywhere near as many hots as a resto Druid, but does have a holy power mechanic that it can burn to drop large single target heals on a person.

The chart is very useful though - they are aiming for all classes to do their roles equally, so it explains fairly well what each class can get up to. The only caveat is that the operative / scoundrel healer class is not ranged as that chart indicates. It has one reliable ranged attack with a 10 metre range, and it's dps talents all push it into melee range really. It's a rogue with healing,and you certainly wouldn't want one as a ranged dps.

Sith Inquisitor -- Lord Zash is your master.

I'd be curious to find out how the one chart figures out it's class/faction popularity.

Me too. I may play IA just because I like playing rarer combos...

Bounty Hunter=only class with Jawa companion.

I'm more of a visual communicator.

(http://www.swtorrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/SWTOR_Blizz_Rocket_Launcher.jpg)

Blizz is the true pwnage.  Too bad he's not romanceable.

Fuck, I am totally playing a bounty hunter just for the jawa. Eventually.

SMUGGLER FIRST THOUGH, MY LOVE IS TRUE.

Jedi Shadow/Assassin is not really a stealth class at all.

Jedi Tank. Because I like it.

I'm at this point:

Before my first beta weekend:
Imperial Agent - Sniper. This was my original first choice.  It will probably be one of the least played classes and I liked the idea of the cover mechanic. 

Then I played the Trooper in my first beta weekend which led me to:
Bounty Hunter - Mercenary - DPS.  I really liked playing as a trooper and then I also found out about Blizz.

Then in my last beta weekend:
Sith Warrior - Juggernaut - DPS.  I played as a Jedi Knight and really had a good time, plus Vette is awesome.

I've been waffling between all three of those like every day.

Except for the Stealth ability they get?  :headscratch:

It's not ... I don't know how to really explain it. But you can essentially forget you even HAVE stealth and not lose anything by it, especially if you're the tank specced sort.

It's like saying my Balance Druid is a stealth 'class'. Just having access to the ability doesn't mean your spec revolves around it... or even acknowledges it.


Also:

(http://www.nexuszero.net/Img/clone_wars.gif)

That makes them not a Roguish type class, sure.  Even then I'm pretty sure there's one or two strikes that you use out of stealth and the Infiltration tree has a couple of skills that modify stealth, including one that helps to regen Force.

But in all the years I played my Minstrel in DAoC, no one ever told me I wasn't playing a 'stealth class' just because I didn't need the stealth to do all my other Minstrelly things.  As a matter of fact, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how Albion had more stealth classes than the other two realms.

Because the Minstrel was built around that stealth. All of those abilities are working on the assumption you have access to stealth.

Conversely nothing my Balance Druid does assumes I actually even know stealth exists for my class.

99% of that was from other stealthers who didn't like how a CCing stealth class unbalanced the weird little stealther vs. stealther minigame.

Seriously?  Please to explain to the person who played a Minstrel for years which of 'all of those abilities' you're referring to?  Because you could easily play a Minstrel without ever knowing the class even had stealth, and I knew people who played just like that.

I'm frankly almost incredulous that taking the position of 'stealth class = class with stealth' is considered some kind of radical idea.

Yeah from what I recall, there were pretty much no cares available in Midgard from the non-stealth-mini-game people about minstrels having stealth.

I am in the same boat as Threash.

What class has decent level of survivability (control or cooldowns), is ranged and strong in PvP?

Imperial Agent - Sniper.  However the cover system kinda makes them kind of different to play.  People tend to either love it or hate it.

Would 'cover' make it non-viable in PvP? That is, your opponents would force you to fight in the open/areas without cover?

You can put up your cover anywhere you want.  It used to be there were certain spots but it made the system clunky.  At early levels you can drop into cover as long as you have an object between you and them (also I think even if there is no object you get a bonus).  Then when you get your portable force field you can drop it wherever.

Cover also stops stuff like the Jedi/Sith charge ability from being able to target you if they are in your forward arc.

I am sold.

Commando/Mercenary you get all of the above.

If youre not attached to anything in particular....

First play a ranged class.
Second make sure you can spec healing.

Play that class fire fun leveling.

The problem with that theory is the healing tree for the IA/smuggler gets you saddled with the shitty melee dps. I mean, it's not shitty dps-wise, I just felt ridiculous doing it.

Smart money is on mercenary.

What you don't want to backstab the boss so you can throw your big heal on the tank?!   :why_so_serious:

If the talent tree is anything like the smuggler's, you shouldn't need to do that. Smugglers have a very low tier talent that turns their long cast heal into an opener for the special heals. No run into melee required there.

Where I get wary of Smuggler and possibly Trooper healing is that both appear to reward slow and steady play/healing, and punish you severely if you get into a situation where you need to cast outside that pattern. This made PUG healing.. stressful for me. Perfectly normal when tank healing, OH GOD WHY the second someone other than the tank decided to go offtank something.

The force regen mechanic just seems far more forgiving, even if in theory the IA/Smuggler will be infinite tank healers with their mechanic.

She's cute, isn't she ?

Yeah it's less I'm worried about actually healing in an actual group situation, but more "I have to do my melee shit if I want things to die at a reasonable pace, at least in the early stages before I get a DPS companion." My consular it felt more natural to do my pew pew shit, because it was all ranged casty shit. My IA kept having to run up to people and stab them in the face EVEN THOUGH I HAD A PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL GUN. It just feels doofy.

Every single cast spell/song, all their ranges, durations and shit are based on the idea you can start from a hidden position and re-enter that hidden position fairly trivially. It's one of the most effective ways to play the class, to be that bastard that instantly vanishes as soon as the groups see each other, appears at the worst possible moment to CC your healer or whatever, then disappears just as easily and repeat the fucking process. Did YOU use stealth? Would you agree not using stealth meant you weren't taking advantage of everything the Minstrel has to offer?

Would you argue that a Moonkins stealth ability is somehow as integral or on par to the Minstrels? Is a Moonkin a 'stealth class'?


If we are going by what we saw people do, I knew a Midgard Healer (for those who didn't play DaoC, the class was actually called 'Healer') that used to melee right beside me on the train, are we going to call Healers a melee class now?  :why_so_serious:



Shadow/Assasins who aren't speccing into their specific Stealth tree, are going to use Stealth the same way my Moonkin does, to skip mobs while leaving a questing cave and trying to gain an opening in pvp. Other wise it might as well not even be on the bar.

Maybe they'll use Jedi Sap if they are desperate, MAYBE.




-fake edit-

Smugglers/IA healing covers the bursts through the use of their Tactical Advantage shenanigans. Commando/Merc healers pray those situations only come every 2 minutes to sync up with their recharge cooldown.  :awesome_for_real:

My smuggler does feel a bit silly running up (aside from NUTSHOT, which is the best stun ever), and I love that Quick Shot is a blaster shot with a third of the normal range for no reason besides "oh, this spec should be close range", but beating someone with my gun and somehow doing more damage than shooting them with it seemed.. stupid.

My sage however I kept running up to things when solo and swinging my lightsaber because god damnit man, you have a fucking LIGHTSABER. USE IT.

edit: this minstrel tangent is silly. I was one of those NO STEALTH minstrels, possibly because 1 stealth rating was more than enough if you didn't play STEALTHER WARS. I could still hang out by a milegate and be practically invisible. But minst abilities weren't really balanced around stealth, they were balanced around the idea that you'd throw points into stealth and not into songs or combat. Their mezz and everything else were pretty much identical to their non stealthed counterparts, aside from being able to single mezz while moving.

But personally, I consider "stealth class" to mean anyone with a non duration based stealth. Even if you can't actually do much special with it. From memory, One assassin/shadow tree is based around dps out of stealth. The others have toys to get those stealth force buffs and whatnot just from normal skills. They're a stealth class, but most of the spec options are in the same sense that a healing smuggler is a stealth class: you can use it to pick fights in pvp, and avoid bullshit in pve. But you do most of your fighting without any concern to stealth directly. It's convenience more than a core mechanic.

Stay away from Vanguards then, where the most effective use of my Rifle is as a blunt object.

I just choose the class with missiles.  Nothing wrong with missiles.

It's a fine plan!

I was about to open a can of whoop-ass on Fordel about how wrong he was about the differences between the Minstrel abilities vs the other realms counterparts (ie: nearly every spell is identical), but I figure your post above is a fine substitute to continuing that slap fight.  I'd like to point out one thing though:


What do you call a class that has a specific stealth tree, if not a stealth class?  Whether or not an individual chooses to spec into that tree is irrelevant, since someone will.  This is also why your Balance argument is spurious.  Druids in WoW are a stealth class.  Whether or not you take advantage of that is up to you.  If you choose to ignore the stealth aspect and spec Balance that's your business, but that doesn't suddenly mean Druids aren't a stealth class.

The entire point is you don't have to be a WoW Rogue to be a 'stealth class', which is why that whole Minstrel derail was started, in a futile attempt to demonstrate that point.

No the counter argument is you DO have to be a 'WoW Rogue' in order to be a Stealth Class. As in the stealth needs to be a central part of the entire class and it's gameplay. It doesn't have to literally mean combo points and backstab no, but it has to apply across the entire package.

We don't call the Assassin/Shadow a stealth class for the same reason we stopped just labeling Paladins as 'healers', since you know, 2 thirds of the class only uses the healing aspect marginally at best.




PS. Minstrel cast time spells were totally inferior to their other realm counterparts, go ahead, check the radius and cast time on their AE Mez. Compare it to the Eld's and Spiritmasters. Tell me what you find.  :why_so_serious:



So how bout dem Troopers, PEW PEW!

The best music class was the skald anyway.  :grin:



Anyhow, *I* don't consider a class a "stealth class" unless stealth is a big ass defining ability. So while druids can stealth, I don't consider them a stealth class the same way I consider rogues to be one. ALL the rogue specs are stealth-oriented in some way. Druids don't depend on it nearly as much except for one spec. And I assume that's what was meant by "that's not reeeeally a stealth class." It's not that crazy.

Whatever, Dubstep laser queen!

BRRZOW BRRZOW <swiiiiiings her FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON VERY SLOWLY>


Crap, out of end.

If you're going to use that narrow a definition for 'stealth class', then it could be argued that even WoW Rogues aren't a stealth class since Combat Rogues don't use stealth as a central part of their gameplay.  As as you established with Paladins, once one tree is excluded the entire class is*. 

Or does only having a few abilities like Sap (http://www.torhead.com/ability/h03R3hQ), Vanish (http://www.torhead.com/ability/5vQeBNe), Ambush, Cheap Shot** (http://www.torhead.com/ability/fWNE38) and maybe Overkill (http://www.torhead.com/ability/elP5s44) from the Assassination tree make a class focused in stealth enough to be a 'stealth class'?  Because if Shadow/Assassin isn't 'stealthy' enough then neither is a Combat Rogue.

*By the way, go to the WoW boards and post a thread with the title "Are Paladins a healing class?" and see how many people say 'Why no, good sir! Paladins are not a healing class because only one tree can heal!'  Actually thinking about it, I guess that means there aren't any healing classes at all in both WoW and SWTOR by your definition!  :why_so_serious:

**Ok, Spinning Kick is just kind of a bad fusion of both but I think that's what they were trying to go for.

I would totally argue there aren't any true healing classes in WoW anymore. In vanilla sure, that's pretty much all Paladins and Druids could actually do really (Druids weren't even doing that much in raids  :why_so_serious: ) Like yea, go make that post and see how many people rage at you for even implying that they should heal or check how many paladins are specced ret/ret or ret/prot or whatever. You could maybe argue priests, with two trees having a strong healing role and even their dps tree having that tertiary bonus (or did, I have no idea how they stack up in Cata these days).

Or shit, does Exorcism mean we can call Paladins a ranged caster now too?  :why_so_serious:


Combat Rogues are also still going to give way more of a fuck about stealth then the two non-stealth Shadow trees will and that's the exception to the class there.





Or to put it another way, should we argue the Vanguard is a ranged class? I have a bunch of shit that has 30 meters on it! Totally ranged right!

No, were not, because it's totally designed to be right up there in melee with the rest of the Saber Jockeys, with both Vanguard Specific Trees all focusing on that inside the 10 meter range with a really strong melee attack rolled in. Even the Vanguards version of the shared tree is leaning towards that 10 meter range with a focus on Ion Pulse in multiple talents.

I don't see any of that kind of focus in either of the non-Infiltration trees for the shadow. Maybe its all tucked away in there hidden in Jedi Speak, since they are starting to get into that Hand of Justice Hammer naming issue paladins have. Doesn't look like it though.

Seconded. Like Rasix says: nothing wrong with missiles, even small tactical nukes.

Shadows and Assassins are stealth classes.  It doesn't need to be their only gimmick, but they are one if you choose to play them as such.

That's how the Sage works too.  The more force you have, the faster it regens.  The instant and quicker heals cost more than the longer cast heals.  Players are rewarded for well timed, and thought out healing.  The less you deplete your force the faster it comes back.  You are punished for spamming quick heals.  If you do, you run out of force quickly and then get stuck with sluggish regen.

Despite having missiles...I like that the powertech just likes to punch people in the FACE!

Melee IA's are nasty in PVP if that's your thing.  So are snipers for that matter.  Super max range behind a large shield... yeah.  Powerful.

I believe they only have Shadow Strike that is augmented by stealth as well as increased force regen when coming out of stealth.  Then Blackout that triggers this effect without going into stealth.

They also have a full Melee/Cast hybrid builds, DOT builds, Tank builds, and in your face melee builds that all don't use stealth.  When looking over the class as a whole, you're probably going to find more builds without stealth than with. 

They do have stealth, but so many of their abilities, or a vast majority of them, do nothing with stealth at all.

I don't remember this being the case, according to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1026827-HEALING!-A-Comparison-of-the-Healers  (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1026827-HEALING!-A-Comparison-of-the-Healers)it's a static 8 force/second.

SHORYUKEN!

A stealth class does not mean all of their abilities have to trigger off of stealth.

Maybe it's because I played a stealther on a MUD whose only stealth ability was sneak.  No backstabs or other abilities which directly benefited from being in stealth.  However it was still my most powerful skill, and let me do things few others on the server could accomplish. [Doppelganger might be considered the MUD version of Vanish, in which case it was hugely powerful, and let me as a weak mage control the flow of battle.]

That said, for a level 23 Assassin going full tank, I had Shadow Strike, some positional abilities, enhanced cloaking, and the combat vanish.  All exceptionally useful to a solo character in getting to places they shouldn't be.  (I completed my Tattooine storyline at level 23.  Solo.  Because of stealth.)

As of the Fansite Summit, Georg Zoeller told me this was the case when he was watching us play over our shoulders and wiping constantly on some overly tuned flashpoints.

That would make them the only class with a variable speed regen mechanic that is not displayed ANYWHERE. From playing it, this didn't seem the case during the test weekend. It's very noticeable on the Smuggler, where if you're below half energy you have to start burning cooldowns or it's going to go badly.

The force users basically have "normal" mana mechanics, and are punished for using fast heals by the fast heals being horribly force inefficient. But every comparison of the healers I have seen points out that due to their static regen amount, they're far easier to react to random shit with since you aren't torn between "do I heal dumbass in the fire and completely fuck myself for the rest of the fight, or let him die so my rotation is sustainable"

And Bounty hunter shoots right to the front of the race on the basis of jawa with a motherfucking rocket launcher. 

Wait, why are people on MMO Champion call them 'Healers' and 'Healing ACs'?  According to Fordel, there are no healing classes.  :oh_i_see:

When describing a class as a Healing Class or Stealthing Class, that doesn't mean that's the only thing they can do.  Paladins are a Healing Class.  They are also a Tanking Class, as well as a DPS class. They can do all those things as a class but an individual player cannot.  If you can't call them a healing class, then by extension you also can't call them a tanking or dps class either.  You can't call them...  well, anything.

Saying Shadows/Assassins aren't a stealth class means you also can't call them a tanking class.  I mean fuck, the reason labels like 'tanking class' or 'stealthing class' are even used is so people know that class X has the potential to tank, or stealth, or heal or whatever.  What's that?  You can potentially turn invisible anytime on demand outside of combat (and even sometimes in combat), sneak up to someone and use abilities that key off of your stealth?  I'm sorry, that doesn't make you a stealth class because you have a choice to not do that if you don't want to.  :roll:

Now you're just arguing to be a dick.

Just because your position is untenable is no reason to be an asshole about it.

All I'm saying is that they aren't defined by stealth, so therfore they aren't a stealth class.  They're not a tank class either.  They have the potential to be a lot of different types of "classes"

And all I'm saying is descriptors like Stealth Class or Healing Class describe abilities, not play styles, else they're pretty useless as descriptors.

And all I'm saying is they DO describe playstyles, and I would say they have a stealth tree or a heal tree. Even in that article the first thing they do is say "and you'll have to spec in these specific trees if you want to heal!"

Otherwise my Vanguard is a ranged class, which would be a false statement. Just as false as saying a WoW hunter is a melee class because shit they have melee attacks right! Describing those abilities!  :dead_horse:



Kild- The Force Regen isn't variable like Heat/Ammo, it just gets BETTER. More Force More Regen or whatever. At least that's what I've understood from the complaints from the other two healers  :why_so_serious:

Correct, the more Force you have (i.e percentage of your total) the faster your regen.

So, the less active you are, the more you are given the resource you're encouraged to conserve and use as sparingly as possible. Brilliant.

I think the core semantic issue is that "Shadow" is only slightly more descriptive than "Paladin" in WoW; in other words, it doesn't really tell you much about the character because the ways it can spec are so different. A "Paladin" isn't a healing class, but a "Holy Paladin" is. Same thing here; conversations about classes will always be more confusing unless you're as precise as possible.

All of the classes are great IMO.  You really can't go wrong in picking any of them.  I played every class to at least lvl 10 and enjoyed them all.  That said, I'll probably be rolling a BH just because I played one in swg and I really loved flamethrowers, missiles, and gadgets available to use in TOR.

I would disagree with that article in that they list Shadow/Assassin as only a stealth class.  A class can have multiple "Tank/Healing/DPS/Stealth Class" descriptors, and most ACs in SWTOR in fact do.  I would say the line would be drawn at 'Can this class perform X function effectively?  If yes, then it can be considered an X class.'  WoW Hunters and (I'm inferring from your posts) Vanguards cannot perform ranged dps effective, so it would be a misnomer to label them as such.  I've yet to hear anyone suggest that Shadows/Assassins cannot stealth effectively.


When we get to the point of talking about Kinetic Shadows or Infiltration Shadows as readily as we talk about Protection Paladins and Holy Paladins then this argument about semantics will be largely irrelevant (yes, somehow even more so than it already is).  Since I would assume the vast majority of people looking to play this game don't know enough about the classes to be that familiar with them yet, I think it's misleading to make a statement like "Sages are not a Healing Class" when someone is looking for a class they can heal with.  The whole point of a thread like this is so people can learn what the various ACs can do so they can make an informed decision.  Blanket statements like 'AC X is not a Y class' when that AC can in fact do Y effectively seems counterproductive to me.

To be fair, to someone from FoH there is only one true way to roll a class, and everyone else is wrong.

I don't give a shit about if it's any good, I have no doubt it is. It feels retarded.

I'm going to laugh when after all these years of eagerly anticipating Hannah Solo, Sjofn doesn't actually end up playing a Smuggler.

This is what I got from the forums as well, as in +force regen speed was a STAT, not that it was variable based on current force levels. I can't find anything besides Draegan in this forum saying it's variable based on current force amount.

Now, what force users DO have is an instant that sacs health for force, which gives you a force regen speed DEBUFF for a few seconds after using it.

Your terminology is confusing, Kild. I think what you mean to say is that your regen rate is based on your maximum force total? That is what I take away from Fordel's post anyway?

Trying to clarify:

There is, supposedly from some forum posts, a gear stat called +force regen that alters your mana regen speed in the endgame. This is meaningless to the rest of the post, but I think it's what Fordel meant by "it gets better"

However, unlike Smugglers/Troopers (who regain slower the less resource they have), a Force user at 1 force and one at 499 force both regen at the same base 8 force/second speed.

Fordel seems to be confirming that as true, and Draegan is saying it works the other way (a force user with 1 force will regen at 1/second while one at 499 regens at 8/second for example)

I'm CONFUSED.

Nah, I'll probably just be a greedy gunslinger instead of a scoundrel. But she's probably going to be like my hunter in WoW. Class I play a lot solo, but never in our groups because HALP NEED HEALER. I actually like the consular, though, instead of having an abusive relationship with it like I did with the paladin.  :why_so_serious:

I faced and embraced my inner altoholic. I will have 16 characters. One for each AC on each side. 8 Republic toons on one server to play with my homies, and 8 Empire on a server to be determined...

But I'm set to give time first to my Jedi Knight and BH -- or maybe IA -- or SI.  And after that video in the other thread I think I'll need my two-handed lightsaber SW as well.

Sigh.

People WHINED and PLEADED for me to finally break down and have both sides on one server so Slap in the Force and Bat Country could be ADVERSARIES, but I am sort of annoyed I won't be able to have, say, two consulars of different ACs (<barely manages to stop herself from starting up a no-switching-AC-rant again>) on the same server.  :heartbreak:

You can get another account  :why_so_serious:

Psht, fuck that. I'm crazy, but not that crazy. I've never had more than one account for a game, and I never will. :P

Once Bat Country inevitably collapses you can just delete or transfer your Empire characters to another server to make room.  :grin:

Maybe they'll offer more slots as a microtrans.  "Buy eight character slots and get a Sparkle Speeder!"

The Bat Country collapse plan is what I'm anticipating yes.

We are hedging against BC futures?  :why_so_serious:

400 pages...  More epic threads than SWG...

This might be the one game where BC thrives.

BC doesn't officially collapse until I tire of talking to myself alone in guild chat at night.

There could be enough of us finally in one spot at launch thanks to the pre-release guild stuff, yeah. BC wow mk. 1 (Burning Region)  didn't happen until just before the first expansion, IIRC

That is the safest investment EVER.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6basb_XKQ5w/Tf6BdjJCntI/AAAAAAAAA9M/GXR3V5oTEoE/s1600/believe.jpg)

I have a bad feeling about this...

(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lok7j0Q4jr1qiorsyo1_500.jpg)

After poking around I had decided on playing a Sith - Sorcerer with a focus on healing maybe a dps build for lvling then switch to healing/CC for endgame pvp... but it looks like every douchebucket and their cousin is making a lightning Sorcerer, so not really sure what to do.  Basically I am trying to relive my DAOC Midgard Healer/ LOTRO - Defiler characters..

any input welcome.

Well one more Sorc isn't going to make a difference when they are already probably going to be 1/3 of the total Sith population.   :why_so_serious:

Might I suggest a Sith Juggernaut? You will be wildly popular.

 :grin:

Sith warriors in general feel very satisfying to play.

So who here is our "Endie?"  'Cause that's the only way the guild stays active.

Not it!

To be fair, she hasn't posted a 5-page recruitment post yet.  But just wait.

We don't need a five page recruitment thread.

Bat Country: Star Wars and a neener bunny.

As much as I want to hug the Manquisitor voice actor to death, I am way too goodie two-shoes to keep some Empire guild alive!  :why_so_serious:

*cough* Blood Elf Paladin *cough*

Psht, my BE paladin doesn't even HAVE a mustache to twirl. And haven't you been paying attention? He's on the same side as Green Jesus, no way that's the evil faction!

No.  It tells you to use your longer cast heals and not spam instant heals constantly.  It rewards thoughtful play.

edit:
On the force regen thing, I'm only go by what Georg Zoeller told me at Bioware and not personal experience.

"don't spam mana inefficient spells" is just basic stuff though. The wonky bit of troopers and smugglers is the slower regen mechanic. They give you a pool to burst through, with a giant sign saying "BUT NEVER DO THAT"

It's like giving a teenager a credit card with a $50,000 limit and telling them not to buy much with it. Sure it makes sense once you grasp how it all works, but it's probably going to be a very hard object lesson the first time out ;)

As for force regen: I think something changed since you played that build. There's a bunch of posts about how things used to work with force regen and stats impacting it, but it appears to be completely static now. The regen altering mechanic is Noble Sacrifice (-health/+force/-forceregen) and a talent that removes the -forceregen after a certain spell crits.

Longer casts and infrequent use of instant heals does seem exactly like being less active to me -- you spend more time watching long(er) induction bars and refraining from pressing buttons.

Six of one etc.

Ok whatever.

Seems that many of these mechanics will make dual speccing an almost must-have for pvp.  The different playstyle requires a different spec.  If I'm healing, I can have slow times in PvE but will want more instas and mobility for PvP.   I have a feeling that I'm going to have to pick a pvp spec to level with and just hope that the people I group with can tolerate my less-than-ideal pve situation. 

Whilst they're avoidable, SWTOR has a lot of group quests.

One of my friends has complained there aren't that many group quests -- are you speaking of heroics or are there more group-oriented quests on post-starter planets?

(I also think we're kind of spoiled by LOTRO -- our weekly game night group has more group content that we can handle.)

There were more group quests in Dromund Kaas than in Hutta/Korriban, and more in Balmorra than there were in Dromund Kaas. I don't think the game is lacking in leveling group quests.

Being that there is only 1 healing tree the difference between a PvP/PvE healing build is almost negligible.

My PvP mercenary build would be:

http://torguild.net/calculator/bounty-hunter/mercenary/?p=22300100000000000000022322120211030121141020000000000000000

The only change I would make for PvE is taking the point out of power shield and put it into Warden, but even that is debatable (even with a 30% crit chance it would only up your overall healing output by 1% and you lose pushback immunity which at times is very useful).

You CAN burst in PvP, you just cannot sustain it or do it very often.   The once every 2 minutes heat vent will let you do some "oh shit" healing fairly regularly.  All in all I think the system works well in PvP and PvE.  (Also PvP with a tank who knows how to use guard and taunt, it is delicious being able to hold off half a dozen dumb enemy dps).

Edit:  Actually for PvP I might remove all my points from Warden and put them in the damage reduction/bonus healing while energy shielded talents.  But still we aren't talking about an enourmous loss in healing efficiency, maybe 3-5%, and thats only if you are sporting a high critical rate.

You were the what number Jedi in swg Lant? You were what class representative?

I never had a Jedi until way after the NGE.  I had figured out my fifth class to unlock, but then they patched in needing eight instead of five classes by the time I decided to try out Artisan.

Wasn't a class rep, either.  I had been asked by the Scout and Ranger Reps to test the Combat Revamp.  I was an admin on SWG Creatures due to my contributions, and involved with BE stuff, too.

I also inherited a 150-member mostly-Bothan PA in SWG.  Which is exactly why I will never, ever lead a guild of more than a tiny handful of friends.

Many Bothans suffered.

Which reminds me, I have to get up our membership requirements and operations calendar. I want at least two operations per week out of every member of BC. I'll be handing out loot based on my secret formula.

Don't forget the send all tradeskill raw materials to your friends bit so they can level up and make stuff for others...

I managed a guild of 250, which is why I now refuse to run or be part of super huge guilds anymore.

I look forward to the youtube movies of utter futility.

(http://images.wikia.com/southpark/images/e/e8/Formulas.jpg)

Pretty sure you're thinking of Xanthippe.

Xanthippe gets purples for giving me eggs, though not as many as if she had built that chicken pen for me like she said  :grin:

The differences between PvP and PvE specs is very negligible for the most part (The Difference in peoples specs in the same tree is negligible over all really, these are not very deep or wide talent trees by any means at all). Most specs by default have a nice baseline pvp functionality.

Yeah, from what I saw a ____ spec was a ____ spec. "pick any 5 points from this tier. This tier has 5 points available" seemed really common.

The tree's are there because people expect them to be really, you could have easily just had a straight line you sunk points into without all that much difference.

The biggest 'debates' are where to put those last 5-10 off spec talent points.

That's something that really annoys me. Instead of having to make tough choices and being forced to decide "Do I take this awesome ability or this one?" its, as fordel said, almost a straight line.

Additionally there is lots of "2% chance to proc 10% more damage on next attack" or similar. It might be powerful in the end, but there are hardly any talents that leave you say "me want!!" after studying the talent calculator.

I agree with Fordel, I think it only exists because it's a really common feature. I'd kind of prefer them to come up with their own method of character customization/specialization because the trees, as others have said, are a small step away from being a bunch of points on a straight line.

It's not terribly interesting, but it isn't terribly broken either. Like, it works, you can't really gimp yourself and it gives people "something" every time they ding.

That's pretty much why it's there. Instead of "You went up a level! Have 10hp and maybe something at the trainer next time you swing by", it's instant AND HERE IS A COOKIE.

Which I end up ignoring for several levels at a time because the talents do nothing.  "Oh hey, my skill thingie is blinking.  Guess I can distribute those points.  Enh.  Maybe later."

But are they OP?

I find myself in a tough spot.  I want to play Sith Inquisitor for the story but at the same time I recognize that endgame will probably consist of queueing for zerg Battlegrounds in which case what I need is a skill-less OP class that will make it easy to get other people mad when I kill them while I browse the Internet on my other computer.  From what little I've seen of Sith Inquisitor it seems they will not live up to this because they will probably just get locked down from casting.

How OP are some of the class mechanics that can be abused?   Do we have a Vanilla WoW Rogue flavor or maybe Lich King WoW Death Knight flavor?  God forbid is there even a Bright Wizard Warhammer flava that will allow me to CC and kill about 5 people at the same before I go down?

Wouldn't it be more efficient to just masturbate? You can even keep your pron browsing window open the entire time as bonus.

Maybe there's a market for PvP porn? Some kind of fake-multiplayer game where, no matter how badly you play, you get a constant stream of "oh noes, you defeated me again! your leet skills are just too much for me!"  :grin:

You may be onto something. With all enemies being naked babes/furries/pigeons/whatever float ones boat, ofc.

It's a bit early to tell, but IAs are probably easier if you go sniper because there is hardly any movement involved.  Just find a corner to set up shop.

In most PvP I've done in other games, mobility is extremely important.

This.  I want to play a sniper, but have my concerns with a few of the pvp maps.  Huttball would be a nightmare to play as a sniper.  I think an inquisitor would be my preferred pvp choice down the madness line.

I believe sniper's get a "Fuck you, I'm an anteater!" skill, in the form of a PBAoE high yield knockback.  Should be some other tools too, like sleep darts and shit.

No they do stuff, it's fairly important, just not a interesting choice decision wise.

Snipers also get a 20 second complete CC immunity ability they can activate once a minute, as long as they don't move from their cover.

Snipers are great if you play in a group. If you want to be the lonewolf badass roaming the battlefield, play something else.

Like a Commando/Mercenary.

My favorite NDA-leak video was the lvl 50 BH huttball video. I think he was a powertech, but I forget, been a while. You could argue that he was 50 and many of the others were scaled up, thus not having their full ability bars...but it was still really cool.

Yeah this.  If they are sitting in a corner somewhere with their shield up, they can be a real pain in the ass.

You forget you're talking to Queen "I Choose Interesting Talents Over Useful Ones", Duchess of "Making Guildies Roll Their Eyes At Her Spec".

I can't speak for the late game, but my experience playing as a Sith Juggernaut was that the guys with the pretty cover shields were the easiest to kill. It generally meant that they'd CC themselves by never moving, no matter how much you wailed on them. Also, the cover is supposed to prevent the sith 'Force Charge' ability, but rarely seemed to do so. I guess it only works in a fairly limited cone.

Granted bad players are bad players, but bad IAs/Smugglers are free kills.

A video I watched of a gunslinger PvPing had him moving around a lot, really. He did alright but it definitely seemed like MOVING GOOD, SITTING BAD.

Yeah, pvp is always about mobility.  Sitting still is never a good idea.

So let me get this straight. They have an ability to be completely immune to CC as long as they don't move? I sorta get it, I think.

It means they can't be knockbacked/stunned.  They also can't be targeted by like Force Leap and such.

CC = can't do stuff. Agent in cover = can do awesome stuff.

Yeah... I thought about it in those regards, mainly in not being stunned. That was the sorta get it part.

They have some long cast time shots that do great damage.  Behind a shield they can't be interrupted or pushed back on their cast time.

The day I took my sniper out pvping was apparently Huttball day.  After the first game, or two, where I was figuring out the map, and what not, I did fine.  I had one match with a low to mid twenties Sniper on my team who just ran around, and never used her shield.  I made use of the shield quite extensively, and blew her out of the water in every category at level 15.

That said, any sniper that just stays behind the shield while they're being beaten on, is an idiot.

Believe it or not, Huttball is fun as hell with a sniper.  Plenty of spots to find cover and nuke people and watch them go crazy trying to find you especially if you on one of the bridges/high points where it's not easy for them to get to you.  It is the ideal Gunslinger/Sniper map.  When I played a Gunslinger/Sniper, my favorite thing to do was to act as kind of a last stand and defend our goal line.  Staying on the back side of your 'end zone' still allowed you to have access to a chunk of map forward.

In Huttball, as a sniper your job is to keep them from scoring, to play defense.  It's not sexy, but man can you rack up a ton of kills.  And if you can cause enough grief for them to actively want to find you, you're doing your team a HUGE favor in terms of getting the numbers game on your teams side.  Piss off enough people by being a complete DPS pain in the ass, and a couple or three will peel off and try and find you and their goal becomes ruining your day.  Conversely, as an operative and especially if you have spec'd into the movement boosting and melee abilities, your job is to be a scorer.

Thanks for this.  I'm really wanting to play sniper with a team for open world pvp, but had my concerns about the instanced maps.  You've helped me feel better about wanting to play a sniper.  I enjoy playing defense (World of tanks and playing a tank destroyer helped) and think this may be fun from a strategic standpoint.

If you think about it, the TD and sniper have lot in common indeed. You just get to carry around your own portable bush with the sniper. Sort of.

Ok, can somebody sell me on, or at least clarify, how a Jedi Sage plays?  Been looking at going consular for awhile, since a Telekinetic Force mage sounds fun.  However, I do see they also have the healing tree.  So, If I went telekinetic spec, would they still play like a high damaging mage?  Or are they somewhat gimped DPS wise, like priest, because they can heal?  I played a priest as my main in wow for a few years, and while I enjoy healing, I kind of wanted to do something different this time around.  Though looks like they combo-ed the mage and priest together...

Anyways, if anybody if anybody could give me some specifics into how they play from their experience, I'd appreciate it. 

The DPS specs are pretty much true DPS specs.  They are all balanced around each other as much as they possibly can.  Seeing that Sith Sorc is pretty popular and Sage is the mirror, good bet it's going to be fine for DPS'ing.

The Sage will only be gimped DPS if you spec the healing tree. If you spec either of the DPS tress you'll be competitive DPS (BW's goal is for all DPS ACs to be equal, assuming you spec correctly) and a gimped healer instead.

They basically hide most of the healing beyond "Big heal, little heal" in the healing trees to keep from healing hybrids having to be balanced around "can heal well, too!"

If you're not specced to heal you CAN heal, just not very well at all. Maybe a bit better later when you have spare points to put in the low tier, but then you'd probably be chomping off a bunch of damage by split speccing.

I do think their tree design will fail horribly if they up the level cap in an expansion, just like WoW had to shuffle shit around when they went "oh shit, now you can get X and Y from another tree!"

WOW always struggled with PvPers making hybrid builds that could reasonably well do both healing and damage (or control).  What stops you in TOR from hybrid grabbing low-hanging fruit out of healing tree and really upping survivability (when compared to pure DPS) that way?

I really enjoy playing melee classes, but really don't want to get into light sabers because that what I see 90% of all players going to play as. Since I mostly PvP, deciding factor going to be PvP ability of any class I pick.

You'll want Vanguard(Trooper)/Powertech(BountyHunter)  or Scoundrel(smuggler)/Operative(Imperial Agent). Despite the fact they use guns and have long ranged attacks, they are in fact melee classes.

They hide the HoTs/AE Heals at the 21/31 point tiers. So basically you can grab low hanging fruit to make your big heal faster/more effective, but you still need to stand around for 2.5s to cast it in pvp. Then they hide your core damage skills above 21 as well to do the same thing for dps.

WoW didn't have that many problems until expansions started doing silly things like rogue prep/whatnot builds where hiding something at 11/21 points didn't make it impossible to take anymore.

Just puttin this here to save a build I may try:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400dZMIrbRRrRrsZh.1