f13.net

f13.net General Forums => Comics => Topic started by: Velorath on November 13, 2011, 06:49:00 PM



Title: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Velorath on November 13, 2011, 06:49:00 PM
Not to make the first post in the comics forum destined to end up in politics, but:

From his blog (http://frankmillerink.com/)

Quote
Everybody’s been too damn polite about this nonsense:
 
The “Occupy” movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.
 
“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.
 
This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.
 
Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.
 
Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.
 
And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.
 
In the name of decency, go home to your parents, you losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft.
 
Or better yet, enlist for the real thing. Maybe our military could whip some of you into shape.
 
They might not let you babies keep your iPhones, though. Try to soldier on.
 
Schmucks.
 
FM

Agree or disagree with the Occupy movement, this has to be the most douchey way to express an opinion.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2011, 08:52:10 PM
Always good to hear Mr. WHORES WHORES WHORES accuse people of being rapists.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Margalis on November 13, 2011, 08:58:28 PM
Frank Miller has been a raging idiot for 15+ years. Seriously, the last good thing he did was his original Batman stuff. Guy is living solely on goodwill.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: apocrypha on November 13, 2011, 09:59:12 PM
Does this surprise anyone who's actually read any of his comics? Guy's a raging nutcase living in a fantasy world. Nuttier than Dave Sim.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Azazel on November 13, 2011, 10:33:55 PM
Fuck. I try to avoid reading comments on blogs and such. Because it was Miller I broke my own rule.  :uhrr: :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Sir T on November 14, 2011, 04:50:42 AM
well what do you expect from someone who's best work was about poor people getting beaten up by a rich buisnessman.   :oh_i_see: :drill:


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Khaldun on November 14, 2011, 06:29:50 AM
He just broke through the Orson Scott Card 'shitbag political views' barrier and fell into the Dave Sim/Bobby Fischer 'fucking nutbag shitheel' abyss. I dunno, maybe Frank thinks this is the way to get Holy Terror sold, by becoming a darling of the Little Green Footballs crowd. I think he's going to find to his disappointment that there's not that many of them, really.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Minvaren on November 14, 2011, 10:34:46 AM
Sort of funny that he wrote "The Dark Knight Strikes Again," about a guy fighting back against the tyranny of his government.  But later when people actually go and do it, that's bad, mmmkaaaayyyy?


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on November 14, 2011, 11:46:26 AM
Frank Miller used to be my favorite comics artist/writer. I don't know what the fuck happened to him after say 300. He's always had a bit of a fetishistic thing for the ultraviolence, but fuck me, has he not read his own goddamn work? The whole Martha Washington series (PAX anyone?) spoke about the dangers of rampant authoritarian governments backed by corporate greed using military adventurism to spread oppression. I always thought he'd be a raging liberal. Now I see he's just turned into a raging douchebag because of 9/11 syndrome.

Shit.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Teleku on November 14, 2011, 12:09:21 PM
Yeah, does seem like an odd disconnect.  In Dark Knight Returns he heavily lampoons Reagan.

(http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image/Ronald_Reagan_DarkKnight.jpg)


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2011, 01:03:19 PM
I find that really odd.


But then, I've said for a while that a lot of you were just flat-out broken by the events of 9/11.  Utterly shattered.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on November 14, 2011, 01:34:56 PM
But then, I've said for a while that a lot of you were just flat-out broken by the events of 9/11.  Utterly shattered.

Yes, some people really were broken or overly affected by 9/11


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on November 14, 2011, 02:38:30 PM
I find that really odd.


But then, I've said for a while that a lot of you were just flat-out broken by the events of 9/11.  Utterly shattered.

Apparently, the Holy Terror thing that Miller just released is essentially torture revenge porn on Muslims for 9/11. After watching the Spirit movie (which Miller wrote and directed), hearing about the Holy Terror thing and now this, I think Miller is definitely a broken fucking man.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Lantyssa on November 14, 2011, 05:02:10 PM
I could expand :ye_gods: to the width of this page and it still wouldn't be big enough.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Merusk on November 14, 2011, 05:55:37 PM
I find that really odd.


But then, I've said for a while that a lot of you were just flat-out broken by the events of 9/11.  Utterly shattered.

Some bullies are cowed by the first punch to the nose.  Others mutter and turn to the revenge fantasies of the sort their former victims had.   Nothing new.

Lots of people have no fucking clue how to deal with realizing that, yes Virginia, you're not untouchable.   Dennis Miller is another if you're looking through famous faces who took a 180 within 24 hours.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Margalis on November 14, 2011, 06:37:22 PM
Miller was crazy before 9/11.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Sjofn on November 14, 2011, 06:44:29 PM
Does this surprise anyone who's actually read any of his comics? Guy's a raging nutcase living in a fantasy world. Nuttier than Dave Sim.

Whoa there. Let's not go crazy. I would still rather be trapped in an elevator with Miller than Sim.


It's REALLY close, though.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: stu on November 14, 2011, 07:25:46 PM
Yow. Things have changed. His Batman work and Ronin are about as badass as comics can get, but yeesh. Miller sounds fearful and weak now.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: apocrypha on November 14, 2011, 10:11:28 PM
Whoa there. Let's not go crazy. I would still rather be trapped in an elevator with Miller than Sim.


It's REALLY close, though.

Actually the thought of being stuck anywhere with either of them is genuinely scary. Maybe I should have said "as crazy as Dav Sim". Although I've not heard anything from Sim for quite a while now.

Note: that's not a plea for someone to post any recent Sim rantings, if such things exist, I'd rather not know.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Sjofn on November 15, 2011, 12:49:31 AM
Oh, I'm just saying if I absolutely had to choose between the two, Miller wins by a very slim margin. Very, very slim. This could be because I am a woman, though, and Sims' misogyny is like ... it is breathtaking. I can think of no other person that hates my gender more and in such an unusual, but very focused, fashion. He is the bar by which I judge all others, because he is amazing. I almost respect him for it. Miller's misogyny is totally boring in comparison.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Velorath on November 15, 2011, 01:04:38 AM
Yeah, Sim's misogynistic rants read almost like Lovecraftian horror.  By comparison, Frank Miller is just a mere douchebag.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ironwood on November 15, 2011, 01:49:41 AM
Holy Shit

 :ye_gods:

I don't like it when I'm right.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Khaldun on November 15, 2011, 04:49:50 AM
Sim actually has a book he's producing now. It's essentially deranged--it feels very much like the product of a person with a mental illness. So yeah, maybe worse than Miller, who is being a nutbag and an asshole but I don't think he's quite mentally ill. Actually I quite like the observation made earlier: the worst thing you can say about Miller at the moment is that he's weak, that his manhood is broken.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Margalis on November 15, 2011, 04:57:00 PM
Yeah, does seem like an odd disconnect.  In Dark Knight Returns he heavily lampoons Reagan.

I don't see much of a disconnect. Miller strikes me as a neo-nazi type, he's not big into established government but that doesn't make him in any way liberal.

The last thing Batman says in DKR is something about how he needs to rid the world of the thieves and murderers who plague it. By becoming the leader of a group of directionless thieves and murderers looking for an authoritarian father figure to direct them. And he becomes their leader by killing their old leader. It's not a long stretch from that to something ultra-nationalistic and a worldview where authoritarian might makes right. His message is also extremely conservative - an old guy who doesn't like the world and kids of today is going to work to restore the world.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ironwood on November 16, 2011, 02:21:52 AM
Did he really KILL the leader of the mutants ?

I've always wondered about that.  In the same way I wondered why on earth he'd shot that mutant and if it was fatal or not.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Merusk on November 16, 2011, 05:09:20 AM
I'm pretty sure he leaves him broken and bleeding but not dead.  It's never totally clarified and the only exposition is "Something tells me to stop with the leg"  "I don't listen" before you see the leader all sprawled out int he mud.

The mutant he shot, though.. also never clear on the use of the gun or dead or not.  The blood stain and slump seems to indicate death, but considering he makes a point of Joker mocking him for being unable to kill *him* I'd find it quite at odds and inconsistent.  If Miller had wanted to establish that THIS Batman killed with the Mutants, seems dumb that he'd then not follow-up on Joker.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ironwood on November 16, 2011, 05:14:13 AM
Yeah, that's kinda where my head was.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on November 16, 2011, 12:08:40 PM
Batman never killed the mutant leader, just worked him over so hard the other mutants became Batman zealots because of his badassery.

As for how Miller portrays Batman, he has actually said he thought of Batman/Bruce Wayne as the ultimate fascist superhero. Rich corporate CEO puts on mask and beats the shit out of the proletariat. I never got the impression from Dark Knight that Miller would actually AGREE with Batman.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ironwood on November 16, 2011, 12:39:25 PM
"Sure we're criminals.  We've always been criminals."


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Margalis on November 16, 2011, 04:59:47 PM
I'm pretty sure he leaves him broken and bleeding but not dead.  It's never totally clarified and the only exposition is "Something tells me to stop with the leg"  "I don't listen" before you see the leader all sprawled out int he mud.

That's really an interesting scene. It could easily be played as Batman going too far, past even his own loose moral boundaries, but instead it's played as being badass. Clearly you are supposed to approve of what he did and think "fuck yeah awesome", not "hmm maybe Batman is a kind of a sociopath." Which is why to me Miller does seem to mostly agree with Batman. I don't get much of an air of reflection or consideration of what Batman is doing, if anything the main condemnation of Batman seems to be that he should have gotten more extreme sooner.

Now I'm not saying that you can read DKR and and peg Miller as some ultra-fascist nationalist but it certainly doesn't seem liberal to me beyond the Reagan caricatures. Keep in mind that a major plot element is that rehabilitation of criminals doesn't work and the people who attempt it are basically ridiculous bleeding heart dupes.

Edit: According to wikipedia a character actually calls Batman a fascist vigilante. (Something I'd forgotten) That character is the ridiculous psychiatrist who tries to rehab Joker and Two-Face. Given how the character is portrayed I find it very hard to believe that he is speaking with Miller's voice.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Khaldun on November 16, 2011, 06:19:07 PM
Wee, and things got better today: Mark Millar stepped in to say, "You guys are being dicks to my pal Frank, he's entitled to be a big dick if he wants without anybody calling him a dick. In fact, I am also a dick and it is why we are both geniuses and you puny humans are not." Loose paraphrase here. But basically this is is becoming a big honey pot for ego + stupidity.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Sir T on November 16, 2011, 06:22:09 PM
Edit: According to wikipedia a character actually calls Batman a fascist vigilante. (Something I'd forgotten) That character is the ridiculous psychiatrist who tries to rehab Joker and Two-Face. Given how the character is portrayed I find it very hard to believe that he is speaking with Miller's voice.

Uh that Psychiatrist had a Hitler mustache for crying out loud.

Well, with that Millar crap, its not hard to figure out why no-one reads comics anymore, with that level of ego involved.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Margalis on November 16, 2011, 07:25:56 PM
Not surprised that Miller and Millar are buds.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on November 17, 2011, 09:06:13 AM
Marc "Civil War is totally a good idea let's have Hank Pym build a Thor clone to kill a forgotten black superhero for shock effect" Millar thinks people are being mean to Frank Miller.

BLACK GOLIATH, MOTHERFUCKER. Shut your hole.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Simond on November 17, 2011, 01:31:01 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/dr9Cm.jpg)

That Batman quote at the end? It's from this:


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Minvaren on November 17, 2011, 02:21:02 PM
Ahahahaha.   :awesome_for_real: :drill:


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: UnSub on November 17, 2011, 05:27:55 PM
That Batman quote at the end? It's from this:

... and that's the exact scene that Kevin Smith later re-wrote to indicate that Batman had pissed himself at the time (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/29/worst-of-the-worst-batman-the-widening-gyre-6/).

Miller is the crazy uncle of the comic book world, and age has only fermented the crazy. Millar is a dick who doesn't like comic book fans or the comic book industry.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: stu on November 17, 2011, 08:21:42 PM
I remember being pissed about Smith's alteration at the time, but maybe they just hate each other. That would be fun.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 18, 2011, 07:35:12 AM
I remember being pissed about Smith's alteration at the time, but maybe they just hate each other. That would be fun.

Honestly, I could kind of respect Smith if that really was a huge FU to Miller.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: palmer_eldritch on November 18, 2011, 08:22:06 AM
Does this surprise anyone who's actually read any of his comics? Guy's a raging nutcase living in a fantasy world. Nuttier than Dave Sim.

Whoa there. Let's not go crazy. I would still rather be trapped in an elevator with Miller than Sim.

It's REALLY close, though.

In fairness to Sim, as he went mad he also had the good grace to become boring so we knew to stop buying his comics.

I made it as far as "Rick's Story". I'd stiill recommend the Cerberus books as far as "Melmoth" to anyone.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: schad on November 27, 2011, 07:38:29 AM
Alan Moore knows the score (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/nov/27/alan-moore-v-vendetta-mask-protest)


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Margalis on November 27, 2011, 03:21:01 PM
I lost some respect for Moore when he made the second League of Extraordinary Gentlemen center around his obvious stand-in fucking a young girl. It makes a lot of his stuff a bit creepy in retrospect.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Sir T on November 27, 2011, 03:30:18 PM
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/26/1322332809308/Alan-Moore-at-the-Edinbur-001.jpg)

Nothing creepy about that guy at all.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: IainC on November 27, 2011, 03:38:05 PM
I lost some respect for Moore when he made the second League of Extraordinary Gentlemen center around his obvious stand-in fucking a young girl. It makes a lot of his stuff a bit creepy in retrospect.

You should read Promethea for that. 'Jack Faust', a balding overweight old man who is also a sorceror teaches a college girl who is also an incarnated goddess magic if she will have sex with him while in her goddess form.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: UnSub on November 27, 2011, 03:47:59 PM
And we've previously discussed "Lost Girls".


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Tannhauser on January 06, 2012, 05:51:28 PM
I think it's fantastic that a comic I read (and still have) thirty years later is having a political effect today.  Alan Moore and Grant Morrison are my favorite comic writers, but I've quit bothering with Moore.  Old man yells at cloud.

Too bad the Occupy movement uses a Guy Fawkes mask, I'd like our own, American symbol, maybe Alfred E. Neuman.

As far as Frank Miller, never been a huge fan and his Spirit movie is one of the rare films I have actually shut off halfway through.  Also, he sound like a poor human being.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: palmer_eldritch on May 12, 2013, 03:00:02 PM
I think it's fantastic that a comic I read (and still have) thirty years later is having a political effect today.  Alan Moore and Grant Morrison are my favorite comic writers, but I've quit bothering with Moore.  Old man yells at cloud.

Too bad the Occupy movement uses a Guy Fawkes mask, I'd like our own, American symbol, maybe Alfred E. Neuman.

As far as Frank Miller, never been a huge fan and his Spirit movie is one of the rare films I have actually shut off halfway through.  Also, he sound like a poor human being.

It also makes no sense to dress as an anarchist when you're demanding people pay their fair share of tax (assuming the mask is meant to represent V rather than Guy Fawkes).

Posting to report I have changed my avatar for the first time since 1998 in recognition of Dave Sim becoming a wanker. It was Cerberus for 15 years.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Kail on May 12, 2013, 03:49:57 PM
Posting to report I have changed my avatar for the first time since 1998 in recognition of Dave Sim becoming a wanker. It was Cerberus for 15 years.

Becoming?  I haven't heard anything new about him for a while.  How did he manage to top "Tangent?"


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: palmer_eldritch on May 12, 2013, 03:53:08 PM
I'm a few years behind the times. It's just that when I started using the avatar, he was relatively sane as far as I can tell.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: IainC on May 12, 2013, 04:06:51 PM
I'm a few years behind the times. It's just that when I started using the avatar, he was relatively sane as far as I can tell.

Haha! No, Dave Sim has always been as mad as a bag of spiders.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on May 13, 2013, 12:30:37 PM
I'm a few years behind the times. It's just that when I started using the avatar, he was relatively sane as far as I can tell.

Haha! No, Dave Sim has always been as mad as a bag of spiders.

This. I have always dug his "indie first" attitude and his stance on the comics distributors fucking him out of dollars but really, he's been a goddamn dumpster fire of insanity from the word go.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Ingmar on May 13, 2013, 12:35:40 PM
He should get together with the guy who "writes" Day by Day.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: UnSub on May 14, 2013, 06:02:41 PM
And the Ultimate Warrior. (http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox14/)


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Korachia on June 07, 2013, 03:08:41 AM
And the Ultimate Warrior. (http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox14/)

wow... what the hell was that? Go have a look at his commentaries to the christmas special edition of warrior for some extra over the top craziness.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on June 07, 2013, 08:41:29 AM
His review of the All-Star Batman and Robin dreck by Miller is spot on as well.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Korachia on June 09, 2013, 09:50:26 AM
His review of the All-Star Batman and Robin dreck by Miller is spot on as well.

Uhh, I might just have a look on those next time I im in for cringe worthy entertainment.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: HaemishM on June 09, 2013, 11:32:00 AM
Oh All-Star Batman was just fucking awful. All the worst parts of Jim Lee's artwork (overly buxom babes for no purpose, overly fiddly costumes) with the worst parts of Frank Miller satirizing Batman in a comic that is played as "SRZBZNZ" as well as just a real cynical disdain for the character and the whole concept of superheroes by the writer. It was Dark Knight Returns taken to even more ridiculous extremes.


Title: Re: Frank Miller goes full retard (even more than he already had)
Post by: Korachia on June 14, 2013, 11:29:17 AM
Oh good god that was arkward reading.  That is definitely the worst batman story ever. Quite entertaining reading through :grin: