f13.net

Uhhhhhhhh wwwwwhaaaaaattttt?  :ye_gods:

wut, pretty sure they said there would be a bunch.

None at all?

No new raids?

No new skirmishes?

No new quests that happen to use instancing (like the escorts in Enedwaith)?

Sorry to be picky, there's just so many ways they use instances. In my mind, the power and flexibility of LotRO's instancing is one of its defining features.

Probably means no new dungeons, except the 24 man dragon raid. Though there's been scant info on new skirmishes, so don't automatically assume they're in there.

This was confirmed by Sapience at Gamescom to some people and it's at least credible enough for the folks at Casual Stroll to Mordor to run with.

With the information coming out of Gamescon, this expansion looks to be awfully thin. It has been pointed out that if you count the features that you would have access to without buying the expansion, you are basically paying for a quest pack containing 300+ quests and 1 24x raid. Of course, second hand statements from the convention also have Turbine saying that new skirmish and/or instances will be coming along 'soon'. I have little doubt that these will require purchase if you are not a VIP (subscriber).

There is a lot a angst on the forums, some of it just nerd rage and some of it justified I'd say.

Yeah, for once I'm kind of on board with the angst. Not even a third of what they promised is going to actually be in and they didn't even publicly promise much. I feel like a real asshole for preordering this because this thing looks more content light than Mirkwood.

I love LOTRO but this is the first time I've been really pissed off with Turbine over how they run it. There's no excuse for charging thirty bucks for this amount of content. None.

Confirmed by Sapience in an interview with a forum-goer at Gamescom.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?415027-A-friendly-chat-with-Sapience-(-Gamescom-2011)

that's sad and surprising.  Guess it's just the new raid + level cap + mo' quests + virtues cap.   I still would like a LotRO "expansion" to include new races, new starting area, new classes...  Feels more like an EQ2 expansion.  Gonna pass till it's free.

New races is a non-starter lore-wise.

To be fair, its also three full zones.

Sure.  And if done as well as Enedwaith, it'll be worth the money.  Just be nice if there were new instances for groups 1-5. 

'Full' eh? you pretty certain on that?

Most LOTRO zones are huge. Not sure what you are asking here.

So tell me how big they are Bloodworth. Because I'm in the beta and I'll let you know how close you are once the NDA lifts.

I have no idea, just going on the size of zones they previously released.

Perhaps others know more then you do. Its just not always prudent to say so.  :grin:

I'm not sure whats going on here.

Really surprised there won't be any dungeons with launch... :-\ Even Mirkwood had a good amount of dungeon content. Nothing, really?

I'll tell you this much: with the confirmation of no new instances and the new PvM zone shunted off into the realm of possibly never happening, this is the most content light expansion by a major MMO ever made. The fact that I can't help but contrast it with Moria, which is the greatest MMO expansion ever made, in my mind, just makes it sting more.

I'm actually getting angrier the more I think about it...

edit: Bloodworth, I like you. And sometimes you have some really insightful, interesting things to say. Other times you talk about shit that you really have no clue about with a conviction that you really shouldn't have.

Jesus on a pogo stick you can be slow...

Because I brought up that its three zones? Oh noes? Attack? LOTRO zones are rather larger in my experiences, so for 30$, it dose not seem so bad.

No, I'm not in the beta.

You two just seem like you want to lash out at someone.


Fuck off my nuts.

No thanks. I'm good from the weekend.

I went back to double check and be sure its not explicit in the NDA so.. I am in beta and know how large those zones are.

No, because dudes actively playing and in the beta were discussing how small the expansion was seeming and you came in going HEY DUDES I JUST KNOW THEY'RE BIG! Which is fine, because that should be the default assumption given past content but having fucking dungeon instances is an assumption too and it's not panning out.

I'm not wanting to lash out at anyone (for once) but now you're irritating me. They're not big. There's no content. It's not worth 30 bucks.

I have no idea who is in beta. All I said was its 3 full zones, as opposed to one in the last expansion, I also said I'm just going by previous zones sizes. Everything else, you seem to assumed yourself ( I never said anything like what you have typed there ), then got angry about. Then went all full attack mode. I was not sure why I was getting flack for a comment. But rage on! I'm sure this is important somewhere.

Personally, if I pick this up, ill just use points, ten bucks a zone doesn't seem that off of the going rate under the new F2P model.

Enough.

And we respect NDAs around here, no breaking them to make Mr.B look slow.

Size of zones is shockingly not NDAed now that the maps are all over from Gamescom, as it turns out.

Well, then carry on.

Share?  Link?

Here is a screenie of the map:

http://lockerz.com/s/130669026 (http://lockerz.com/s/130669026)

It has been reported on the lotro forums that there are two submaps that can be pulled up from this one.

I guess all that f2p money hasn't kicked in yet.  :oh_i_see:

Well..  all this is very disappointing. Especially since I'll never see the raid.

Hmm  :oh_i_see:

Well 8 stables can mean 8 quest hubs, but more realistically 5-6.  Yeah, 24 man raid woooo....  /derp

Right. You can do the math. It's 300ish quests, or so the claim goes, which puts it at Moria quest size. But then you go smaller map (I don't care how many subzones; it's smaller), no dungeons, quite possibly no new skirmishes.... I really don't get this. I really don't.

So here is my take.

The company that so many years ago prided itself on metronome like content updates and provided good products at a fair price is under new management with a new business model. You should view them as you might a television ad for male enhancements. Some of what they imply is true, like the part about it being a pill you can swallow.

Well the thing is that the last year of content has been pretty fucking awesome and fairly priced to boot. It might be WB pulling the strings but I have more of a feeling that WB probably doesn't give too much of a fuck what Turbine does, unless that oft-rumored Harry Potter MMO is siphoning resources.

WoW and Eve pretty well demonstrate that making a ton cash doesn't equal more content for said cash cow.

The other way to make more money is to cut back on work.  Sigh.

Its somewhat odd to me, that under this new models they are doing an "Expansion" instead of just adding the zones to the store. I suspect its more marketing than traditional expansion release.

Isn't it obvious? VIP's and Lifers don't pay for 'maps' but must pay for 'expansions'. You might note that no TP pricing for this has been announced and I believe only real cash purchase will be available for a time after release. That or the TP of the pieces will have a much higher total.

Added: One thing that been rather irksome to me since returning to the game in early June, is the constant scroll in guild chat about 'which questpac should I get?', 'How many TP for that?', 'Whats the best way to make TP?'. I feel like I am playing in Fantasy Shopping World, not middle earth. Very immersion breaking, more so then Min/Max talk.. at least for me. YMMV

Quite sure it was said all this would be in the store after launch. Thats a given.

Yeah. I mean, I'm locked in. I pre-ordered like a buster. But, depending on how competent they are, this may be it for me once I hit 75. I'm a massive fan of this game as a casual way of MMOing in a well-realized IP world but this has REALLY rubbed me the wrong way, wiping out a lot of good will.

It's not even that I'm lighting the world on fire with my slow leveling and even slower dungeon grinding these days. It's really a principle thing combined with my having zero confidence that the promised dungeon cluster gets out on time.

It must be hell on earth to be CR in a game like this. Sapience says 'and maybe even before Christmas', and before that thread can even sink a slot or so down, the Fanbois are saying 2 - 3 Months! new Cluster! .

Oh, I'm totally allowing for that possibility! I hope it happens. But if I get to 75 and it launched with zero (ZERO) endgame content outside of a 24 man raid which was due this past Spring? Sorry.

They better hope I'm a slow leveler.

They better hope a hella a lot of people are.

Gotta add: This is part that make so little sense to me. They seems to be playing right into GW and TOR hands. Even for casual play, its going to be drying up by the end of the year. IF they do get an instance cluster out, will that hold people? Are they just resigned to seeing a massive player exit and hoping to recover with something in the spring?

It makes zero sense on any level. If it's not done or content light, wait. No, putting an expansion out and saying "the whole thing will be in three months from release" is NOT better than just delaying. People are going to get to 75 and have zip to do, then they're going to leave for SWTOR.

I'm completely confused by this move. Just completely. It makes no sense.

The thing that got me to pre-order was the XP rock (pocket item... what) because I assumed the outfits would be in the store eventually.  I guess the rest of the stuff will also be in the store later.  But, as a subscriber this isn't making me feel superior to the plebians in any way.  I will admit that a lifer is basically a drag on the balance sheet, but someone who has prepaid for twelve months should, I don't know, feel like they are getting something for the money.  Everyone pays for RoI (which my steel-trap-like mind has realized is a very interesting abbreviation) but no one gets anything awesome until it is dropped into the store?

or don't pre-order, don't purchase until 10-12 weeks from launch, and either get it on the store with TP, or normally with cash now at a discount, and then see a better leveling curve.

Not hating, but I don't see any need with LotRO to do any expansion at launch.  Only if you care about 10-24 mans etc.  They've pretty much screamed their business model == LI/levelling progression.  


edit: I intended for this to be more positive than it sounds. 

Best consolidated overview to date:

http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2011/08/what-exactly-is-coming-with-isengard/ (http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2011/08/what-exactly-is-coming-with-isengard/)

This just in:


I guess it was getting hot in the kitchen.

Oh one little caveat

"No. The Turbine web store is the same store we use for the Isengard preorder. "

Cash talks, TP walks I guess.

That's okay but, frankly, still a little light for a 10 level increase expansion. Seven 6-mans for Moria release, it's nearest comparison in terms of scale and price. SoM had, according to Wikipedia, "Two three man's, two six man's instances, and a 12 person raid..." So you're getting one more 3 man and one fewer 6 man than SoM.

Still no word on new skirmishes, either.

Here's the link confirming the new instances http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/24/turbine-confirms-five-new-lotro-instances-by-the-end-of-the-year/ (http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/24/turbine-confirms-five-new-lotro-instances-by-the-end-of-the-year/)

Very good news.  Yeah, it reads to me that Turbine saw the negative publicity about no new instances and quickly caved.  Good thing too as some of their instances are very good.  FFS, I paid $50 for the legendary pre-order and just get three zones?  Glad they changed that. 

Unless I can duo any of them, I don't give a fuck.

The pre-order was $50? Man you guys got jobbed, no wonder there's so much sturm und drang in here.

50$ was one option for preorder. Base was $29.99.

they say when the post expansion upgrade is scheduled?

I will try to zero that in, but I believe is was "before the end of the year".

I got the $29.99 option.  The things you get for the extra money are generally cosmetic, if I recall.

25% xp pocket item, horsees, armor, cloak, questpaks for the top tier, and some turbine points sprinkled in

NDA is lifted. Full disclosure: I never spent time leveling for a couple reasons, I am on a monthly bandwidth allotment and didn't want to spoil what looks to be only a single play through for a while. I have spent a fair amount of time reading the beta forums however. CR team is at PAX, so expect some games media press over the next few days. Other then that, ask away I guess.

First CSTM article here: http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2011/08/rise-of-isengard-nda-lifted-new-screenshots/ (http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2011/08/rise-of-isengard-nda-lifted-new-screenshots/)

Perhaps you can even see the beta forums for yourselves now.

No official announcement has been made. Now there has.

Haha, whoa what?

Was there ever an actual closed beta up 100% of the time? I only ever got weekly stress test invites. I never saw any indication that there was a beta up all the time. Though I guess there would have to be.

Anyway, I don't hate the zones. I think there's going to be some reasonably solid questing, as is usual in LOTRO. But the zones aren't as big as I'd like. Not teeny or anything, like Mirkwood subzones or areas or whatever you want to call them. But this is definitely smaller than Moria... and, yes, I expect a full price expansion pack to be as big as Moria.

I deliberately avoided the Book quests for the most part so can't comment there. I saw no new Skirmishes; they may be linked to the Books or, more probably, they don't exist at all.

The art style is still gorgeous. There's this one stretch of forest which is the dark, claustrophobic forest I wanted Mirkwood to be. And Orthanc is impressive.

The server was open with all the leveling tools and supplies from Wednesday evenings through Sundays generally. Events held every Wednesday night and the server down on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Interested parties might want to spend a few minutes on the forums now. Lots of info, screenies, maps etc pretty well confined to one or two threads.. and the temperature has fallen by quite a bit. A least for today.

Man, I dunno. Moria is the single biggest, craziest expansion area I've ever seen in *any* game, at least since zones started having real content and not just mob camps in them. Moria is a completely insane achievement, the sort of thing that I don't think anyone will ever do again for an MMO. Using it as the standard to measure things by means nothing is ever going to measure up in any game again IMO.

Yeah, let me rephrase that, because I realized that was dumb after I typed it. I expect that to be something to at least strive for. I expect more than a bigger than normal quest pack.

Yeah, my $50 got me Trollshaws all the way up to Isengard, so I can go f2p and have 75% of the game.  Also bought Angmar and need to grab Bree-lands and Lone Lands. 

I'm in the beta also.  Dunland is much cooler looking than Mirkwood and the minstrel changes are very welcome.  Unfortunately, looks like there is no new skills from 66-75 other than "Improved".  I'm torn on this because Minnie's have too many goofy-ass skills anyway.

So I'll solo Dunland and have groups when the instances arrive.

 :argh:

That bit definitely doesn't bother me, I would actually like some skill consolidation frankly.

I do, too. That was always in the cards. They're not mutually exclusive, though.

I can't speak for other classes, but Minnie's have lost all ballads and have gotten three new ones, one for each 'stance'.  Very glad to see that.  Honestly, I can't think of any Minnie change that I don't like.

People were universally praising all of the class changes that I saw. Champions were very pleased, too.

Yeah, I read through the champ changes, I am hopeful they will be good. My bars are too crowded, to the point where sometimes I can't find the corner case stuff when I need it.

It'd have been nice if the dungeons were there at launch, but it's fine with me as long as they come out before Feb and don't cost anything if you already bought Isengard. LOTRO has always been a slow paced game for me, so it'll probably take me a while to get to 75 anyhow.

General approval heard in the Beta forums bearing in mind that Controlled Burn is less useful and CBR is completely fobar. Plenty of tweak time remains. Shield-less tanking in Glory works and Ardour more useful but still odd man out.

Do you have a link to the minstrel (and hunter?) changes?

Same. It's more a principle thing.

The Turbine Point pricing for the component parts of the ROI expansion are here:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?418174-Official-Discussion-Isengard-LOTRO-Store-availability-and-Turbine-Point-Cost (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?418174-Official-Discussion-Isengard-LOTRO-Store-availability-and-Turbine-Point-Cost)

around 6K total if you don't get the xp acceleration doohicky.