f13.net

Figured we could use a new thread to discuss all the new stuff.

We just finished Thrall's questline; it was pretty easy, all the quest mobs involved counted for everyone regardless of who 'tagged' them. Took about an hour to do, and the reward is a 365 ilvl cloak.

I also started the new dailies, although you can't get very far; only 12 marks can be earned at first, and you need 20 to advance to phase 2.

I had read you would take 3 days to hit phase 2 but it sounds like you can actually manage it in 2.

I don't think so, some of the marks are earned from non-dailies; you can only earn 4/day from the phase 1 dailies.

So what's the deal with the new dailies? How do they work and what do they do?

Ah, yeah, gotcha.

Paelos:

Think Isle of Quel'Danas, except the progression through the phases is personal rather than server-wide.

I see, so there are big epic rewards at the top of the hill then?

Yeah, summary:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2320-Patch-4.2-Firelands-Daily-Quests-Marks-of-the-World-Trees-Rewards-MMO-Report-Comics

That doesn't include stuff like the cloak reward Rendakor mentions, I don't know if there is any other stuff like that where it directly rewards you from a quest without doing the token unlock stuff.

Go'el?  Since when is Thrall from Krypton?  :awesome_for_real:

The rewards seem pretty nice. Certainly for tanking you get ring/trinket/craftable sword/wrist. I could also make a case for the belt if you reforged the haste to parry as a pretty great upgrade over previous stuff.

2 rings, even!

One little negative, is there is a pair of higher level bracers from VP this time around, and also another tanking ring. Always a little annoying when they double up like that.

I think that's all judging from this search http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=minle=365;maxle=391;cr=82:161:18;crs=3:1:1;crv=40200:0:0 (http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=minle=365;maxle=391;cr=82:161:18;crs=3:1:1;crv=40200:0:0)

Thankfully, the Agility cloak isn't amazingly itemized so I can skip grabbing it until later tonight.

Now I have to decide if I want the tanking cloak or the fury cloak...

EDIT:

Under the additional rewards category, there's a new hippogriff mount for completing the associated meta-achievement:

http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=5866

The dungeon journal thing is neat. It should've been ready to go at release, but at least it's in now for TEH FUTURE.

You mean like this expansion's release or six-years-ago release?  I'd agree with both actually, but I think my opinion on the latter (at the time) had it even been suggested would have caused me to be burned at the stake.

Hoping they expand it a la the similar feature WAR had.

I meant expansion release, but earlier in the game's life would've been nice, too.

Took my alt into our sister guild's FL raid tonite; my own guild's run is later. First impressions:

-Holy fuck wayyyyyyy too much trash. Like, tons and tons, and all of it is incredibly annoying. More trash than any other raid current or from LK.
-Lord Rhyolith is obnoxious; the turning mechanic seems very sluggish to respond, even with 3 people focusing exclusively on legs. The adds were going down fine, but the boss kept running into the magma and wtfpwning us.
-Shannox doesn't seem too bad, the only real PITA about him is that he's taunt immune.  :uhrr: Got a few more tries on him with this group, hope we get him down.

The trash isn't so bad once you actually pick a direction to go, at least in our case.  Staying down the road is just asking to get feared into things or pulling a boss.  Rhyolith does have the turning circle of a moon though :awesome_for_real:.

Shannox didn't happen with my friend's guild, then we had 2 ppl bail during our run so all we did was grind trash to friendly. Got 2 BOEs and 3 patterns though, and grabbed another BOE cheap off the AH.

Much, much whining in general last night after I compared this to ToC.  Many folks were asking "can I only get 12 today?" so I responded, "Yes, it's gated and you can only get a certain number per day to draw it out, like ToC."  *general wtf Blizzard whines ensued*   It's like the people hadn't made that connection previously. I don't get it.

YOU MEAN WE WAITED AROUND FOR ANOTHER TOC??? OH NOES!

(http://www.guzer.com/pictures/boat_explosion.jpg)

Silly me, thinking I'd do vash''jir instead of hyjal on my deathknight.  Took me three hours of bullshit level 80 quests to be able to do the new dailies for 10min.

Yeah, that's one I can agree with whole-heartedly.  I was worried I'd taken off from the zone too soon to be able to on the pally (I didn't complete the zone), but so long as you got the Tauren Druid dude unlocked at Malorne's shrine you're good.  However, I never touched the zone at all on the priest and DK so I'm irritated I now have to.

:facepalm:

Anyway, Firelands.  Lord Rhyolith may actually turn out to be one of my favorite fights in the game.  Shannox isn't bad either.  Don't really see the big deal with the trash so far through the lower three bosses.  Maybe my opinion on it will change once I start needing to go over towards Alysrazor and Baleroc?

There is much wailing about how easy the normal raiding stuff is. I take that as a good sign.

Mixed feelings about the Thrall/Aggra quest, annoying having to listen to Thrall so much, but she's got a nice voice. Certainly wasn't much effort for a very nice cloak reward at the end.

Until you realize that as soon as you get Friendly with the new Rep from Firelands you get a better cloak.   :oh_i_see:

The faction is attached only to the raiding, so this still serves its purpose.

That totally pisses me off too, and I actually took the Hyjal route on most of my people (and had gone back for the easy rep on my alliance paladin since they had my head enchant).

Well, they certainly took people's feelings about the difficulty of tier 11 to heart. The new instance looks to be ICC or ToC level difficulty in normal mode. Guilds on my server have already killed everything bar Ragnaros on the first night, and we are not talking cutting edge hardcore here...

That sounds promising for us then.  :awesome_for_real:

I'm withholding judgement until I try the raid for myself, but it will be interesting if it is that easy. I expect the next major content patch is another 5-6 months away. If we kill regular Rag in a month, that's probably it for me until the next expansion. Honestly, this patch needed to come out a month or two ago, and it needed to come with a new 5-man.

The Thrall quest was pretty cheesy, but it was still better than I expected. It would have worked better with goal being something other than "kill elementals till this bar fills", and without other players in your phased instance. It's this highly scripted event and it's made to seem like you are the only one that can help Thrall, but that illusion is shattered pretty quickly when there are 40 other players around you tagging every mob as soon as it spawns. It reminded me of the LOTRO Epic Book quests, which also would have been pretty stupid if they took place in a public instance.

Not much to say about the dailies until people start getting enough tokens for the second quest hub. Thus far the quests have all been "Kill X enemies that pose no threat" or "collect Y". We'll see if there are any innovative quests when we get further in (something like how bombing runs felt when you first did dailies in TBC)

Obviously, Wowtrack doesn't work so well after only a day so I don't have anything empirical to go off.

Last night, I only felt the place was undertunned, not easy, although that's to be expected since I technically overgear it little bit.  As an anecdote, my server (US-Wildhammer) only has one guild with more than two bosses killed.  Admittedly, my server only has one good guild :awesome_for_real:.

4.2 was apparently too ambitious for the 6+ months they spent making it.


Honestly, more than 6 months (considering much of Firelands was probably partially developed long before Dec 2010) to make...

-2 remakes of old raids as 5-man dungeons with identical loot/models and near-identical bosses for one of them
-a repeatable daily quest hub that is gated in such a way that you can advance it, at max, for about 30 minutes a day
-around 8 new quests unrelated to the daily hub (Zandalari/Thrall)
-1 new faceroll PvP raid boss that uses an identical model to a boss they added to the game 6 years ago
-one new raid (Firelands) with almost half the number of bosses that the intro tier offered
-25 new haircuts

What are they even doing over there? Playing Minecraft?

Well, having spent the last 3 months working with "Designers" after having avoided them for 10 years, I'm reminded that they have their own ideas of what 'deadlines' and 'schedules' are, so the Art team stuff makes sense.   (It also reminds my why you don't let a designer manage other designers.)

The rest, though, is plenty to bitch about.

From Iraqi Information Minister to 'I'm quitting until next expansion' in just two short months!  :drillf:

I actually really liked the Cataclysm content at launch. The dungeon content was great, the raids were great, I liked most of the class changes. The new 1-60 was nice, not that I really benefited from it much. But man...  you can only go so long without any substantial new content, especially when the level cap had less content than previous expansions. I still think Cataclysm's end-game model is the right model for the game (per my tastes), but the live-update team is either lazy, incompetent, or under-staffed.

We've only heard of content they've cut out, not content they're adding soon. We haven't gotten any good build-up for Deathwing that would make him seem like an enemy worth sticking around to fight. It was basically "he caused a bunch of teraforming omgz" and then straight to "old gods are fucking everything up again". Where is Deathwing holed up? Why are we all doomed if we don't defeat him? It seems like he is satisfied just flying around to random zones killing players.

Instead of getting some peeks at what is around the corner to keep us excited, we get news that another piece of content they announced has been cancelled. When long-awaited content does finally arrive, it's full of enormous speed-bumps meant to spread a week's worth of content into 3 months.

I'm fairly certain the Firelands raid content will be something I enjoy, but I have absolutely no faith that they will start releasing patch content at a reasonable pace after Firelands.

After beating Rag, I can either pay my sub for another year and a half and probably see one more raid cluster and one more set of dungeons, or I can save ~$270 in sub fees and check out a reasonable amount of new content when the next expansion comes out.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_x-z1ZjYgwAI/SlTFkLO01UI/AAAAAAAAAF4/mghXYHfSs7M/s320/Darkside2-thumb.gif)

Finally got some attempts at Shannox with the guild group tonite; we had him to 18% and wiped. Then the trash repopped and we only got in two more half-assed attempts before raid time was over. They're doubling the respawn time on the trash (4h instead of 2) and nerfing Rapeface in a hotfix tonight, so I'm confident we'll kill him tomorrow.

We were doing the fight totally wrong yesterday with my friend's guild; they were trying to tank swap instead of luring Riplimb into freeze traps.

Glad to hear it. We made good progress on Shannox last night, but then the trash started to respawn, and we were close enough to our usual end time that we decided to call it. Without the respawn, I think we'd have given it at least another couple tries.

Got Shannox after 3 tries tonite. They didn't nerf Rapeface's damage too much, but he no longer stuns.

Working on Beth'tilac now; half an hour left on our raid time so hope we can down her.

Edit: We got Beth on our last attempt, pretty easy fight overall.

Second week out and a load of guilds are already at 6/7 heroic?

Well define "loads"?

Currently 18 guilds are at 6/7H. However, over 1100 guilds have a heroic kill so far.

The way WoWprogress is tracking these kills though, the numbers seem way down so far. The pool of guilds that had a kill on T11 content was roughly 63,000. The pool of guilds with a kill so far in this content is ~18,000.

Compare that to the tracking on WotLK where there were ~88,000 guilds in T9.

So did they made Firelands even harder or is there that fewer guilds trying to raid?

I would say from what I've seen given the numbers, the sample size is smaller and more dedicated. That makes it more difficult to speculate is the content is "harder" other than the fact that that several guilds are already blasting apart heroic content.

I think the thing to take away from the analysis is that the content is most likely easier to those who are still playing it, but could possibly still be considered punative to those who already left. There are without a doubt fewer guilds successfully dabbling in the 4.2 raiding content. Almost 80% less than WotLK.

I'm curious how the hard mode difficulty compares?  Sounds like it's easier than WotLK hard modes.   Of course with the crappy lockout system hard modes use I'm not sure it matters.

Why are we not seeing 80% less subscriptions? What are those players doing if not raiding as part of the guild?

Is BG participation up? What about Arena?

I think people forget that not all WoW subscriptions are equal for starters.    Blizzard is better than other companies but there's no way ALL their asian subscriptions can be considered "active" or whatever you want to call it.   Beyond that though there just aren't that many people who raid.   That was what the big stink over Cata heroics was about.     They basically screwed up the portion of the game that people actually PLAY.

Because 100% of players aren't raiders? Ones so dedicated they'll quit rather than do something else?  :uhrr:

I think the reality is that the players may actually be doing the older content if they haven't left yet. That, or they're pvping and doing achievements.

Example: Here's a guild 10 man that just got 10/12 on T11 in a week. (http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/darkspear/Grind+Inc/rating.tier11)

So there really ARE guilds that don't mind doing the older content now that it's nerfed!?  :oh_i_see:

I think the reason people are blowing through FL quickly is that it's the smallest unrestricted raid tier they've released in a while. Naxx and Ulduar both had more bosses, ToC was only 5 bosses but when it launched only the first one was accessible with a new one coming each week, so it took more than a month for people to even clear it. ICC they did something similar, where each wing took a few weeks to unlock. While FL is longer than any of the three intro Cata raids, there were three of them so it took longer for people to clear all the current content.

Indeed there are. I'm not really shocked by it. If I was still playing that's what I would try to do. I'd think, hey maybe if we get my group semi-coordinated on this shit, we might be ok!

In the case of the guild I linked, that was started by 2 dudes who were 7/13H on the Tier 11 content as of May. Their guild probably blew up and he started over with the patch. Now they are recruiting a few noobs, gearing them up, and are going in whole hog.

Another example guild called "Pixels in Motion" (http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/bronze-dragonflight/Pixels+in+motion/rating.tier11). They have blown through 12/12 of the T11 content in a week. That one was created by a Hunter who left a 4/13H guild and started recruiting again. I think you'll find that most of these new raids doing the old content are actually previous raiders who are reloading guilds with non-raiders and gearing them up.

The raid was released a couple days before July 4th weekend, and it's summer in general. My guild didn't start making serious attempts at bosses until last Sunday, at which point we picked up 3 kills in one night. Long Story short: expect the kill rate to increase pretty fast if the low kills were due to irl summer events like was the case in my guild.

Edit: Part of me is glad this raid tier is short and that normal mode doesn't have any lame cock-blocks (heroic is another matter apparently). We still have a smaller and less stable raid roster than usual due to the season. I'd have loved to get a heads up that the next larger raid cluster was in September or October though, when schedules were more consistent and the raid length would be a blessing more than a curse, but I don't see that happening.

I will be keeping my eye on the headway made by the new guilds that reformed to see if we get more into the new content on a week to week basis.

We would certainly be doing the older content if we had the numbers, we're still down a bit. Our GM is so inactive I might have to take it back over.  :why_so_serious:

And 4.2 is the patch that's killed any desire I had to play.

Wasn't expecting it. I was really busy the week it hit the servers and didn't have time to play much. Logged on a few days afterwards, started the questlines on my "main" character and after 3-4 days of halfhearted dailies and a couple of failed guild attempts to get a single Firelands boss down I suddenly find I have no desire to log in again.

I mean, daily quest grinding? Again? Really? Thrall's in mortal peril, guardians of hyjal oooh arrgh help help etc, and you want me to kick some turtles into a lake and gather up a bunch of owls? Really? Bugger the fuck off.

Welcome to the Dark Side, my young apprentice.

Daily quests as implemented by most games atm need to die in a fire -- a very boring fire. Tedious crap taking up ~15-30 mins of precious daily playtime (often with additional downtime built in), presenting zero challenge... just so you could grind faction_x, or - even better - unlock another set of grindy daily quests? Fuck that noise. It was even worse in wotlk when you needed to grind hodir faction just to get shoulder enchants... on each char. /angryface

(this goes for a lot of non-wow games as well... rift is the most recent offender)

Well what exactly do you want them do to for the casual/single-player crowd, or for the raiders during times they don't raid?  Dailies, if anything, are still a huge improvement over previous MMO end-games which consisted of A) Raiding for hours B) PvP or C) F*ck off.

Sure, they can get tedious, but you can't knock 'em for at least trying to please everybody.

I am one of those 'casual/single-player' people: I don't raid on any chars - other than very rare pugs - and don't have arena teams. I just do DF dungeons and random BGs in my WOWtime. If I get bored of that, I play an alt. If I get bored of my alts, I turn off my sub until the next expansion or major content patch.

Of course a lot of people do dailies in WOW (otherwise the game wouldn't have such a proliferation of them :p), but I still can't imagine where the 'fun' is in doing them, other than maybe some minigame-based dailies that become routine after the ~5th time or so. No real challenge and they're the exact same every time. Rift tries to 'mix this up' by randomizing which dailies from the hub are available every day, but the base problem is still there. Btw, mandatory dailies (HI HODIR!) can fuck right off.

You can do dailies 'right' -- in Guild Wars you get daily quests that are bounties for certain zones/missions. You may explore/finish these missions during your normal pay, and the daily quest just adds on a bit of extra reward (and/or an extra boss spawn) on top. I don't have a problem with daily skirmishes (lotro) or daily dungeon finder bonuses (wow, rift) either... those are a lot more varied and challenging than 'go here, click this, kill trivial mob, repeat 9 times'.

I want more random quest generators for daily quests. Not the same old shit over and over again.

First of all, that turtle punting quest (http://www.wowhead.com/quest=29101) is awesome.

Secondly, I don't have a big problem with daily quests.  In some part because I don't actually do them all that often, but also because what they replaced was many times worse.  As a continuation of the solo leveling-up experience, they actually seem quite sensible in WoW.  LotRO tasks' are pretty shoddy, but they have solo content with skirmishes (which are really fun).

More 5-mans.

Once.

I can only see solo/skirmish content coming to WoW in a post TOR world.  A shame, as something like that 'would' give people much needed variety/challenge and give some more retention before everyone flies off to a galaxy far, far away.

Going back to current dailies, I admit I haven't played WoW since Feb. (just got back in this week out of Rift boredom), but at the time the dailies did give me a set list of things to do with my time in a set schedule.  They should improve upon the current system as it is, not just rip it out and replace it with something else.  More varied quests, different destinations or goals, etc.  Maybe even have a 'faction of the week' thing where all dailies done for that faction get bonus rep/monies/etc.

You can't expect though to have dailies be on something of the same level as raids.  There's single-player games for that.
 
I'm sure the refreshed AQ 20/40 dungeons will be in 4.3  :grin:

But that's taking one type of content and getting its development time stripped for another.  WoW's always had (PvE) stuff for solo players, stuff for pick-up small groups, and stuff for large organized groups.

Take out dailiy quests as a major thing and you've left that set with alts and grinding for rares.  (I'm intentionally ignoring ye olde style rep grinds as a possibility because those were dreadful.)

Dailies are supposed to be for people who want solo content.    They keep fucking that up though by tying them into important faction grinds.   They'll probably have to implement some sort of per faction weekly cap to solve that though.   Then the raiders can just raid to get their weekly faction.

I don't mind if they have daily quests. I don't want them to take them out. I just want alternatives to them in order to advance my character. Cataclysm desperately needs more 5-mans, and not recycled stuff and not ones that take more than an hour to do either.

Bored of the 2 troll dungeons. There's 2 of them. Bored of the pre-4.2 dungeons, they're 8 months old. I raid twice a week with my guild and have no inclination to log on at any other time.

Seconded. That was the only Hyjal daily quest I enjoyed doing.

I think a new 5-man (or 2!) would have been a better use of everyone's time than the Hyjal dailies, but there are some players that don't do 5-mans either, and Hyjal dailies gives them something to do.

Give them the money they'd normally get for doing dailies when they go quest on an alt.  It increases the person's investment in the game by giving them another high level character, gives them an alternative to eating a nerfbat and ragequitting, and gives them a variety of quests to do.

You take that back. Mylune quests are the best quests.

Thall is fine, actually.  :oh_i_see:



EDIT: And yes, Mylune's quests are best quests. I'm SAD when I don't get to punt turtles or hurl bear cubs.

Honestly? I found myself caring so little I have no idea what's actually going on. At one point Thrall & Aggra (who?) were blah-blahing and I just got bored and flew off. I think they were getting married or something.

Mylune SOOOOO needs her own voice actor.

Basically Thrall got split into elements (to drive him crazy, I think) but you and his honeybunch fixed everything so Thrall can go about marrying her and being Green Jesus. The entire reason he was even fucking there in the first place had been utterly forgotten by the final quest in the series, of course. Who gives a shit about fixing some stupid elf tree? Thrall is in LOVE.

So really, the Druids of the Flame won that round. They showed up to stop Green Jesus from fixing the tree, and lo! Everyone forgot all about fixing the tree.

She just sounds like a War3 Dryad in my head.

OK. Still not caring. Still not picking flowers, kicking turtles and herding owls for them. :awesome_for_real:

They have nothing to do with the real Firelands stuff, of course.  :oh_i_see:

I'll lure the enemy with my human call: "I'm so wasted, I'm so wasted!"

The Dryad was my favorite WC3 unit.

Same although the original soundbyte for the alliance flier "This is my Warhammer... and it didn't cost me 40K" is my favorite quote.

Apparently GW sued Blizzard for that one  :why_so_serious:
 

One of the reasons I like Mylune is because her keeper dude friend is the one who initially has the bear cub chucking idea, so apparently the dudes are also silly. That makes me feel better for some reason.

World 1st Heroic Ragnaros 25 kill (http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2385-Ragnaros-25-Heroic-Mode-World-First-Kill-by-DREAM-Paragon) yesterday. Only reason I'm posting it is I noticed this:


...and it made me laugh.

I don't really get how world first kills are achivements anymore when you're sponsored and Blizzard is hotfixing things as you play.

I think we've discovered why Blizzard can't satisfy the hardcore crowd for long, however.

Discovered?  Those with any experience have known that since before that EQ Guild gathered-together 250+ people to kill the Dev-declared "Unkillable" Paladin qeust-giver in Plane of Sky.   It just seems that each dev team has to learn that lesson over and over again. 

It's like armies trying to invade Russia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih4LxXu78dk

Blizzard has been doing that for a long time. 

You don't even have to go back to EQ.  The last "really hard" boss without an attempt limit was M'uru and most people were talking about that taking several hundred attempts.  Heroic LK was in that same conversation, but limited attempts kept him up for a longer period of time but with fewer (maybe half as many) total attempts.

I'll give the mad props for effort.   I can't help but be glad these types of people probably won't even touch SWTOR though.

Sure they will, it's a well-funded MMORPG with lightsabers.

Whether it turns out to be a well-made large-group-PvE game remains to be seen even as an intent of the developers, much less a reality, but that's not going to stop people (including high-end WoW/Rift raiders) from picking it up.

Making a bunch of assumptions, that's roughly a week of 12-16 hour days where you do nothing else but attempt the boss. Even for a hardcore guild that seems like a lok.

I think the 500+ number is complete horseshit.

Not necessarily, when you consider how quick some of the encounters probably were.  I'm willing to bet that as soon as a single person died they wiped and went back.

Yes wiping quickly and returning to rebuff in a timely fashion is an important pro skill.  :why_so_serious:

Too bad they didn't have any shamans so they could reincarnate and mass rez to go faster!   :why_so_serious:

Sadly, organization and timing is probably one of the main differences between hardcore raiders and non.

I'd say to look them up on Armory, but they never implemented the Deaths to raid boss for cataclysm it seems.

Still, one of their DKs has 2,723 deaths in 25-man dungeons... so it's possible.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Synti/statistic#122:125

Well my first assumption was an average time between wipes of 10mins. Including getting everyone back in and buffed, that doesn't leave a lot of time for actual fighting, even if you have a slew of novelty phase-1 wipes (which seem improbable since they have had plenty of practise on normal mode).

Given a bunch of low-% wipes, you're looking at maybe 3-5 attempts per hour, not allowing for bathroom and food breaks, and so forth.

So basically I agree with Paelos, the 500+ number is utter arse. Maybe 50-100.

Not really. For example, most H-Baleroc parses indicated between 50-100 pulls before a kill. Even with the fact that H-Baleroc is substantially shorter (as an encounter), it's not unreasonable that they would have spent at least that many on Rag, if not much more. Most top guilds use the /camp trick to reset the mass res debuff, allowing much faster turn around on wipe recovery. Similarly, many of their pulls would have been under 10 minutes, as the transition phases on heroic are much harder (and partly the reason that they stacked druids).

Also, raiding for 12 hours a night during progression isn't out of the question either, as you know, eglory >all.

The quote was:


He admits in his own post he is guessing. It's hyperbole. We're awesome, we worked so hard, we wiped like 800 times on this shit man. We're total dick-smacking ballers.

Who gives a fuck.

I care!

oh, wait, hang on....

Cared enough to bump a thread that moved off the topic days ago anyway :p

On topic: Alysrazor is really fun. If all the fights in Firelands were that creative, it would have been the best raid ever. There are no real stinkers at least , but unless Ragnaros 2.0 is amazing, Alysrazor takes the cake.

I hear he stomps you with his new feet.  :why_so_serious:

So he he gives you a hot foot?

(Normal) Rag is an end-boss, and enjoyable for one, but he still has like twenty phases and adds and shit.  Not a fan really.

My favorite normal-mode is probably Majordomo.  None of his mechanics are terribly complex, instead they just require crisp execution.  It's not perfect though, he is sort of poster child for the "Raid-wide CDs are dumb." set, but I don't think that takes away too much in our 10m at least.  Alysrazor's cool, but I'm stuck on the ground interrupting so it's just "Interrupt Harder!" and "Fire bad!"

I was stuck on the ground too as a rogue, but you still get to toy around with the speed boosts. I also liked how the fight cycles from 1-4 phases and then repeats, instead of moving in a specific phase at X% and then another at Y%. Watching people get fried by tornados is pretty entertaining as well. We only put a few attempts into Staghelm, but he's seems decent. As a rogue I really dont appreciate any fight that has me switching targets every 3-4 seconds though.

But but but.. they gave rogues Redirect to fix that!!  :why_so_serious: :awesome_for_real: :oh_i_see:

I'm really not a fan of Alysrazor, but maybe that's because we haven't had more than half the raid survive transitioning into phase 2 even once.  :oh_i_see: Also, neither of us (tanks) can seem to kill our add before that happens, so I'm having to blow CDs and dodge tornadoes with a birdie wailing on me.