f13.net

This probably belongs in the Game Development forum, but I'm going to toss it out here:

I'm bored and want a coding project. I've played around with Google App Inventor, which is neat enough I suppose but I can't think up anything terribly exciting. Plus, the interface and development structure just isn't making me tingle.

I've had a hankering to actually play with and learn the basics of modern graphics -- basically either dick around the guts of it (like use OpenGL and build something interesting, if simple, from scratch) or grab a decent open-source engine and build something semi-Game-like.

I've basically two rough ideas, enough so that I'm thinking about them and might scope them out and see how far I can get before I want a real life back. Both are inspired by Dwarf Fortress, honestly and perhaps a bit of Minecraft. I've dwarves on the brain.

The first is basically a simple terrain generator. I liked the whole 'world generation' bit at the start of Dwarf Fortress and was considering trying to generate a sizeable area (randomly, procedurely, haven't worked that out) and then once I've generated it, aged it (you know, adding in river patterns and whatnot), turn that into a 3D world (skins, whatnot) to wander in. No gameplay, just a moveable camera in a sizeable area.

The other is to take a graphics engine (I was thinking maybe Esenthel?) and take the OTHER part of Dwarf Fortress I liked -- which was building lairs -- and try a very simple Sims Dwarf. (Ridiculously simple). You know, 2-D layout that gets turned into a 3-D 'Fortress' you can walk about in. That I mgiht add more stuff to that would make it a bit more 'gamey'.

I just want to learn one or both of them, how they work and how they're used, and the best way for me to learn that sort of thing is to, well, try something interesting. Success or failure isn't really the issue, and I don't plan on doing anything other than seeing if I can make it work. Or semi-work.

Anyone have any suggestions? Like "I don't think you realize how difficult that is, how about trying something simpler like X instead?" :)

Edited to add: My other idea was, basically, "I wonder if I can create a 3.5 character generator?  Or maybe a simpler version, simplify combat a lot, and then create an evolutionary algorithm to min-max it for me? Hmmmm...."

Want to write my zombie MMO for me?   :awesome_for_real:

Most of the work is done. They called it "Left 4 Dead". They just need to expand the multiplay a bit.

Tempted to dig out my design for that card game...

FYI, I think I settled on "fucking around with Panda3D". I was also going to learn Python, and then decided I already know C++ and just moved to a new job that swapped me from "web developer" back to "applications developer" (in C++) and the double practice would probably make work easier.

Plus, I still might try to make a simple 3D engine myself.

Also, I think I love Eclipse. Haven't gotten to put it through it's paces to compare it to Visual Studio 2010 on C++, but looking forward to seeing how it runs.

UOX3 needs coders :grin:

Let me play with this before I start offering to help out other people. I may loathe it or suck at it. :) Admittedly, that's sort of the whole point of projects like this. It *sounds* fun to me, I'm not aiming to sell a product or anything. I just want to screw around with the stuff that "Makes games happen". I want to know what it's like behind the curtain, so to speak.

Plus, it's just ridiculously cool in general. I still get the warm fuzzies when I make software do something clever.

any reason not to check out HTML5 and <canvas>?   there is work ongoing to port OpenGL to the Web for 3d. (http://www.khronos.org/webgl/wiki/Main_Page)

If you are looking for something compiled, Ogre  (http://Fwww.ogre3d.org)might also be worth playing with.  BW may have some suggestions.


Edit: URLs

I'll look into them both. The reason I made the original post was I have no idea what's out there. My expertise in development is science and engineering based applications (some web, some not). The most complex graphics we do is called "a graph".

I don't know game development or 3D graphics or engines or any of that. (One reason I wanted to learn). The selling point on Panda3D was that it was open-source and professional quality, giving me a limited feel on what the real deal gets to see and do. (Obviously not any of their custom tools, classes, and sadly not their art department....)

WebGL is likely dead in the water.

One of my friends who works at Opera seems insistent that WebGL is here for good.

Not if the security issues (http://www.contextis.com/resources/blog/webgl2/) are not addressed, and, hate to say it, Microsoft supports it (http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-harmful.aspx). It will got the way of VML , VRML and the like.

Its very much the next version of VML with all the exploit-ability of activeX.

His argument was that security issues be damned, game developers want to use 3d in web browsers so it will come to adoption by brute force if needed.

There are much more robust options for that.

Time will tell.

I'm not an expert but I'm not sure what else is out there that will play with HTML5 and get people the 3d shineh they want.  Good links BW, thanks.

In HTML5? Not much. However many, many engines now have web players as a packaging option, there are also older mainstays like flash and the like. While getting users to install XYZ plugin they don't already have is a hassle, is normally a more secure environment with the added bonus of an opt-in. Even Google, who supports web3D had a competitor plug-in. (http://code.google.com/apis/o3d/index.html?utm_source=gocb&utm_medium=et&utm_campaign=en-US) Firefox has disabled support in 5.0. You have to manually enable it now.

The problem with anything being handled by the browser level, and not by a plugin, is getting browser venders to adopt it, security issues fall in behind that is not out right block it.

No there won't.  WebGL's security issues stem from allowing web pages to send opengl commands to your pc, and that buggy 3d graphics drivers can allow for security issues.  There's no easy way to work around that.

"No there won't."  what?

I should stop posting today.  Misread what I quoted as you saying there will be more robust options.

Did anyone else chuckle at someone from Opera predicting what's going to become popular?

Oh trust me, the irony didn't escape me as I wrote it, or when I first read him talking about it :P