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Title: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: eldaec on May 10, 2011, 12:00:57 PM Quote We’ve been looking into players interacting and how that ties into movement and security. Jump bridges have become a bit too much of a crutch in terms of getting around, so we’re going to apply a three changes. Basically, it’s become a very easy, convenient and safe way to travel, with little or no downside. That’s not to say you’re invincible when using jumpbridges, but if you’re in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety. That safety is detrimental to interaction, both in terms of meeting friendly and unfriendly players, which is the base of our change. If it’s difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which we’re against. On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out, since they provide a great way of reaching whatever content you’re using quickly. Anyway, this is what’s happening: The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isn’t very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it can’t use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month. The second and third changes will go in next month, with the main patch. We will be limiting the number of jumpbridges you can have in a system to one, while upping the fuelbay to 30.000 (3x) to avoid suicide among players who do logistics. We would suggest you start reconfiguring your jumpbridge network as soon as possible. Hopefully, this will better balance the rewards of fast travel with the risk of getting caught on the way. So you’ll still be able to use jumpbridges, but every jumpbridge link adds a normal gate jump too. The blog goes on to say, CCP are planning to start thinking about doing something else with 0.0 this winter. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf Post by: Gets on May 10, 2011, 12:03:16 PM Thanks a lot, CSM5.
Fuck. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Simond on May 10, 2011, 01:54:03 PM The funny thing is all the people going "Haha NC/DC you're fucked!". Yeah, the guys with the tech monopoly are going to be the ones screwed over by a doubling in cost of jump-bridges while the people in the rest of 0.0 are going to be just fine. :awesome_for_real:
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Thrawn on May 10, 2011, 03:52:47 PM Every 0.0 logistics person just died a little (more) inside. But its all good because they increased how much bridges can hold! :uhrr:
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Fordel on May 10, 2011, 04:20:03 PM Logistics people bitch about it, but they secretly LOVE IT.
"Thank you sir, can I please have another!" :why_so_serious: Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: ajax34i on May 10, 2011, 05:58:55 PM They could have done the Freelancer system where pirates kick you off the highway for a bit, but no... the highway-interrupted system is better. Cause everyone everywhere should limp, even in systems where there are no hostiles.
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: tgr on May 10, 2011, 06:50:38 PM There's been tons of alternative ideas such as making it so the POS the JB module is at can't have guns on it, to decoupling the JB module away from the POSes altogether and making it a system-wide beacon. But noooo.
I'm wondering what PL/NCdot/ev0ke will say when (if? I'm starting to lean towards if at this point) they'll ever get to fix supercarriers so they're no longer the solo pwnmobiles they currently are, since they're some of the louder "hah gotcha JBs" people on forums right now. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: MahrinSkel on May 10, 2011, 06:51:59 PM This just strikes me as a bad sign, a real failure of vision by CCP. It's straight out of the "Something must be done, this is something easy, therefore this must be done" school. Really fixing this would have taken code and testing, so they're doing this quick hack because it's all data-dependent.
Doing nothing until you can do it right is nearly always the correct choice in operating an MMO. Given all the potential knock-on effects, using this as a way to restore uncertainty to 0.0 travel is just a clownshoes moment. --Dave Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: IainC on May 11, 2011, 02:10:44 AM This was a discussion that started at the December CSM summit (CSM 4). I pointed out at the time that they were operating from some faulty premises but was shouted down.
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: tgr on May 11, 2011, 02:35:32 AM One clownshoes part of this is the woefully short time we've got to actually prepare and plan the replacement system for this, along with the fact that setting up a single JB POS is apparently a full day's work because it takes so fucking long to setup a proper JB POS and the fact that SOV costs are going to escalate because we now need 2x the systems to setup a JB chain.
The fact that it's shoved through with the belated assurance that "we will be looking at 0.0 this winter (and probably not release the actual update until summer or later, with at least 5 gamebreaking bugs) and it will be awesome" is probably the worst part of it, though. Seriously, why does this have to go through now after almost literally 18 months of little more than getting punched repeatedly in the face, instead of putting it off to the overarching update to 0.0 as a whole so it would be balanced with us getting something positive at the same time? Because I'm a bit tired of seeing nothing but nerfs (a few UI tweaks and heavily needed server-side bugfixes and updates to just make up for the fuckups introduced by Dominion). Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Numtini on May 11, 2011, 08:32:45 AM Quote This was a discussion that started at the December CSM summit (CSM 4). I pointed out at the time that they were operating from some faulty premises but was shouted down. I never did finish the article for my blog, but if you go back to before the summit and look at the forums, absolutely nobody was complaining about jump bridges other than some nulsec players bitching you still needed to put in the password when you had standings or that the fuel bays should be bigger or anyone with standings should be able to add fuel. But then someone, apparently one of the CSMs, suggested removing them and it took on a life of its own among people who hate nulsec alliances. Some of it would have been funny, if it wasn't so sad. One of the CSM candidates seriously suggested "nerfing" them by requiring each ship going through to use some kind of fuel in proportion to its size and allowing other alliances to disable them. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Amarr HM on May 11, 2011, 10:54:48 AM Lets improve 0.0 by making it worse hurrr. The one jumpbridge per system is correct, in fact I suggested this idea previously to the CSM, but it should link to every other bridge within range. Why have 3 bridges in system to refuel when one can do the same job?
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Sir T on May 13, 2011, 10:56:41 AM I cant understand this at all. I GUESS they feel "gatecamps R gud, so lets make sure they can be gatecamped" I never saw much of a problem with Bridges. Personally I would have put in a system where it took fuel from your cargo bay to stop the constant refueling and take stress away from logistics people, rather than put more stress in there. 30,000 units? Fuuck.
I got another "5 days free" email yesterday. Think I might try it so that I can see the changes and say hi to a few people, but I see CCP haven't learned a thing Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Fordel on May 13, 2011, 11:43:20 AM They DO think gate-camps are good, like, auto-pilot still isn't to zero is it?
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: eldaec on May 16, 2011, 10:19:59 AM Quote Agent Quality Changes In addition to the division changes, we've also implemented a pretty huge change to how agent quality works. Previously, an agent's quality, ranging from -20 to +20, factored into both how difficult it was to gain access to that agent and how much that agent paid out for missions. Yet the system by which these values affected agent access and rewards was pretty opaque, even to most devs, and the effects were not particularly meaningful. Now, all agents in the game will have an effective quality of both -20 and +20: That is, in terms of calculating access to an agent based on your standings with his or her corporation, the system will assume that all agents are quality -20, making them (in some cases, considerably) easier to access; and at the same time, every agent will pay out rewards as if he or she had a quality of +20, meaning all agents of the same level within the same system security level (e.g., 0.6) will pay out the same amount for similar missions - and in most cases, they will pay out somewhat more than they used to. I don't have the patience for mission runner ganking, sanctums, or missions, so for me this is funny. CCP have decided to troll the fuck out of 0.0 by implementing the exact inverse of the sanctum nerf for empire mission runners. This is pretty funny. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: ajax34i on May 16, 2011, 10:32:26 AM I think they're trying to spread out the mission-runners to other systems besides Motsu etc., but they haven't announced that they're relocating the agents at all, and with just these changes the mission runners will concentrate in the 0.5 systems that are farthest from lowsec. I.e. they're not getting rid of mission hubs all that easily.
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: palmer_eldritch on May 16, 2011, 10:55:08 AM I always thought the fact that so many 0.0 pilots depended on their mission-running empire alts for an income suggested there was some basic flaw in the game. Even players whose 0.0 pilots were in safe areas of space - areas not visited by hostile pilots - would do this*. These changes would seem to be making the problem worse.
*not me, I scanned out plexes and selfishly triple-boxed them instead Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: tgr on May 16, 2011, 11:04:27 AM CCP? fucking up the game one change at a time? Why I never. :why_so_serious:
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Fordel on May 16, 2011, 01:52:47 PM I always thought the fact that so many 0.0 pilots depended on their mission-running empire alts for an income suggested there was some basic flaw in the game. Even players whose 0.0 pilots were in safe areas of space - areas not visited by hostile pilots - would do this*. These changes would seem to be making the problem worse. *not me, I scanned out plexes and selfishly triple-boxed them instead No one wants to get farmed, no matter how hardcore they pretend to be basically. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: palmer_eldritch on May 17, 2011, 06:08:42 AM That's true. Actually, you're not going to get shot by hostiles while ratting unless you are very dumb, but it would be equally true to say nobody likes cloaking up in a safe spot or logging off or hiding in a POS when they are trying to make ISK, which is what you would probably do instead.
However, even when there are no hostiles about, many people seem to find it easier to make money in Empire. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: tgr on May 17, 2011, 06:42:06 AM That's because in empire, unless you pimpfit your ship, you won't ever have to take more care than stocking up on ammo, travelling to the right spot, and choosing the right type of missions. 0.0 basically just requires a few minutes worth of inattention.
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: eldaec on May 17, 2011, 01:46:44 PM However, even when there are no hostiles about, many people seem to find it easier to make money in Empire. I don't understand why anyone tries to make casual money in 0.0 while incursions exist. Unless you are doing some moon based shit that I don't pretend to understand (or botting) there is no real reason to be there at all outside of pvp ops. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: ajax34i on May 19, 2011, 04:34:38 AM Can incursions be done solo?
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Kageru on May 19, 2011, 04:53:06 AM Hell no. Goons used to PUG them but I expect they've already optimised it to being 4 people and their alt-farm. Since the biggest PvE ship I fly is a drake I've pretty much just ignored incursions. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: eldaec on May 19, 2011, 11:42:12 AM Drakes are too big for incursions. Barring various special snowflake fits...
Guardian > Legion > Zealot > Harbinger > Hurricane > Muninn You just need to be in an alliance or be a friend of an alliance that runs them (only goons) and show up. You need 3 guardians and 5-7 other guys per fleet. Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: ajax34i on May 19, 2011, 05:26:40 PM Right, it's a 10-man PUG or guildie "raid", complete with all the pain of having to deal with other people. Thus, people solo rats instead.
Title: Re: Sov holding nerf - also plan to start thinking about 0.0 in Winter Post by: Gets on May 20, 2011, 04:00:29 AM Who wants to buy a 6% implant/named Capital module BPCs? :pedobear:
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