f13.net General Forums => But is it Fun? => Topic started by: Azazel on January 08, 2011, 02:29:13 AM

Title: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 08, 2011, 02:29:13 AM
Probably not all that different to the 360 or PS3 versions

- I'd heard good things about Mafia II, especialy in terms of story, but I'd also heard that it severely lacked replayability - unlike most open world sandboxes - your GTAs, Saints Rows, Red Dead Redemptions, Just Causes and even your Saboteurs and Red Factions that feature lots of side missions and random shit to do while entertaining yourself - Mafia II basically has none. Sure, you can crush cars to make a few bucks, but your purchasing power seems to be limited to buying more guns from a limited range (pointless as all the guns you'll need are pretty much mostly supplied for free from fallen opponents or given on a mission), upgrading cars (again, pointless since they handle like junk, and again, you're given what you need as you go for the most part) and clothes (purely cosmetic).

But back to the game itself. Well, it's well done for a game story. One of the strongest that I've played through. Despite the game press raving about it, it's still no Goodfellas or even Casino, but for a game, it's quite good. On the other hand, there's the gameplay. And despite enjoying the game, or the experience - to perhaps put it a little better, the gameplay is pretty average at best. It's not exceptionally bad, but it's not what I'd call good either. There's some brawl mechanics that are seriously sub-par, not too far off what you'd find taped onto an Ice Hockey game 10 years ago. (There are also no baseball bats if you enjoyed them from the first game.) Some cover shooting mechanics which are just standard meh quality. Not bad, but not exciting. (and the cover button is awkwardly mapped to L-Ctrl for PC). And then there's bog-standard GTA-alike driving in a series of cars that mostly handle badly.

Throw in the other GTA-alike trope of every 10th vehicle being a cop car who in this game will chase you down for speeding, and after a couple of high-speed chases, you'll find yourself driving like a semi-sensible citizen because the car chases are just annoying timesinks. Though if you get to a mission checkpoint it doesn't matter what your wanted level is or how many cops are after your arse. The game also features such wonderful innovations as needing to drive home and manually walk to your bed after completing a mission, I'm surprised that you don't also have to manually take a shit, too.

So anyway, while the gameplay is honestly not much to get excited about, as I said, the game's story is it's strong point. I've always hated games that rely too much on long cutscenes beyween the gameplay, and Mafia II is a bit like that, but I find myself instead wanting to get through the next mostly-tedious patch of exciting "narrative gameplay" (press "E" to clean the floor/Press "E" to wash the window/Press "E" to call Fat Tony/etc) to get to the next bit of story.

Visually the game is nice. Really quite nice. Aurally, the it features changing-period music in what feels like a bit of a nod to Scorsese, and the game can be nice just driving along under the speed limit listening to the radio on a rainy night. Atmosphere is something this game does well.

I was waiting for this to drop to AU$30 or less on the 360, since I'd heard good things about the story but that it lacked anything else to do, but with the recent Steam sale, even the US$20 price thet Aussies were expected to pay over the US$12 that the Americans got was enough to swing it in the end, with a bunch of US.99 DLC added which swung it. Apparently the PS3 got the first bit of DLC, as an exclusive freebie, while the other two, apparently more arcade-oriented DLC packs are available on PC and 360. But this isn't a DLC BiiF, it's for the core game.

There's no multiplayer, there's collectables - Playboy Magazines that give you a cheesecake pic of a period-approriate centrefold - which feel completely tacked-on, since many of them appear to be located within missions that you only get one chance to do per playthrough - and no reason to play through the game multiple times, since the story is the hook and the gameplay is average at best.

I realise that I may sound overwhelmingly negative about this game, but the fact is that while the story isn't great when compared to a good Cinema Gangster tale, it is a good story for a game, and the story is good enough to keep me interested enough to play through a couple of a few chapters every day since I picked it up.

If you approach it with low expectations as far as gameplay goes, but are happy to play for the story - and you can pick it up cheap - the Steam sale price would seem perfect, then I say go for it. If you can rent it, you can probably finish it in a weekend without too much trouble. If you do so, you'll enjoy it and since there's no real reason to replay it aside from collecting Playboy pics (you have the internet for that!), you'll have gotten your money's worth.


Rent it.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Sky on January 10, 2011, 05:29:16 PM
Why aren't you using a gamepad?

I'd agree it's not much for open worldy stuff, but I think it's a great game. Don't knock the car tuning, it can make a significant difference (even if the supercharger looks stupid on some otherwise nice cars (the Deusy copy, frinstance). And there are some cars for gun battles (the heavies) and some for racing (the little convertibles mostly).

As far as the cops go, unless I'm a) going 100mph, b) run someone over directly in front of them or c) hit them; they ignore me. I kinda miss that from the first game, I liked the speed limits and having to follow traffic signals. With the amazing music tracks, it's nice to just take your time driving and enjoying the ambiance. Soundtrack not quite as good as the first imo, but I like the period music of the first better. I own most of the Delta radio stuff. Stilll, great for the time period, a running gun battle with Mr. Sandman switching over to some Boom Boom is fucking awesome.

Are you playing on hard? Because you need to. I usually play games on easy, but this one is more fun on hard.

Verdict #2: Steam sale, but I'm cheap. I'm halfway through at 9 hours, might take longer to finish because I will probably look for some cars later on as the better cars show up (I did in Mafia anyway).  It's fun but short (in my book, probably long to the current generation of kids); don't think too hard about things, it's a great experience that doesn't get in its own way (as GTA 4 often did).

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Sky on January 13, 2011, 09:29:44 PM
I really like this game, until the second to the last chapter, due to checkpoint saves (which mostly aren't bad in the game). After a normal length running gun battle, there's a 'boss battle' in a warehouse. Almost no cover, someone lobbing non-stop maltovs that light the cover (crates) on fire, enemies charging you. I've played it about a dozen times now, I've gotten to where I can mostly survive the onslaught but can't make any progress to the bosses, since I'm pinned. Whatever, it's tough and I'm playing on hard. Ok.

Problem is, the checkpoint is all the way back at the start of the first running gun battle, tacking on an extra five minutes to every try.

I'm fairly certain I'm done, barring a quick cheat through this section. Life is too short for that kind of thing.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 14, 2011, 02:15:26 AM
Wasn't using a gamepad because I prefer PC-aiming controls. KB+M.

Finished it an hour ago. The lack of save points is annoying, and the game truly does feel as linear as any FPS. The story is better than most games and is in fact the best thing about Mafia, but it's still pretty predictable, and nothing special compared to a halfway decent gangster film.

The missions are quite repetitive, particularly the introduction, which the game itself parodies/acknowledges in one of the last few mission introductions of you getting woken up by the telephone.

I'd recommend that anyone playing who also owns DLC pimp the shit out of their cars as soon as they can afford to, since they stay with you through the inevitable "reset" the game throws at you, unlike your cash. And there;s nothing else to do with your cash anyway, since you'll always get enough weapons, and clothing is pointless.

Cop cars being seen every 100m or 1/10 of other cars is still fucking annoying and actually immersion breaking, since it constantly reminds you that you're playing a game. I mean, how often do you see a cop car when you go driving? If you saw one every 40 seconds in real life, you'd think that some serious shit was about to go down, and you'd probably be right as well.

I agree with you on the checkpoints, though I played on Medium, since as I mentioned, I find the gameplay to be workmanlike "good enough" but not especially good or fun. So I felt no need to "challenge" myself by making the gameplay more annoying/tedious/difficult/frustrating, which seems to be what you've run into. I also found that there are quite a few missions where it's simply down to chance as to whether you survive or not, particularly the car escape with your crew that has the cutscene with "more of them" as you drive past 2 more cars or the pub where you needlessly yack at the Irish before getting down to business. You can get shot and killed purely by chance by the AI with no chance of getting through, then eventually get a lucky run and go through unscated, despite doing the exact same thing.

Definately a Steam Sale game, a mid-price or bargain bin console game, or a rental. it's a it of fun, but not an especially good game.

I picked up all the DLC with the steam sale. I'll play through them at some stage and either BiiF them as well or add them to this BiiF. The DLC packs with cars and outfits were somewhat pointless, I only used a few outfits or cars, most never even came out in the course of my playthrough. For 99c each via the Steam Sale I'm not too broken up, though.

Jimmy's Vendetta and Joe's Story are the more involved ones. I played a bit of Joe's story right after finishing the main game but it starts with one of those multi-part missions where you do the first thing then they send you to do anudder ting right afterwards, so I quit to take a break. No idea if it saved any of my progress. I'll get back to it.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Sky on January 14, 2011, 09:35:13 AM
On the car chase scene, I had caused so much destruction that the only car left had two flat rear tires (and if I had seen it at the time, would've been 'sploded too). I did learn that you can pretty much see the stream of automatic bullet fire and swerve the car so it doesn't hit you, though. But it was the first of the two bad checkpoints in the game, this one much less so, because it probably isn't normal to blow up so much stuff in the previous fight...Kept putting me back into the car with blown-out back tires. Went and had dinner, enjoyed the evening with my lady, and when I came back to it the game forgot the car had blown out back tires and I finished it the first try.

The hard difficulty hasn't made it annoying until the Steve and Derek fight, I think it made it a lot more fun.

I used the DLC a lot, my only gripe is that some of the cooler outfits (I like suits) forced you to wear shades or glasses, which I felt negatively impacted the cut scenes.

Was kind of bummed that I didn't get to sell as many cars as I wanted before having to take out Derek. When I hit chapter 11 and opened up the good cars at the observatory, I loaded up my garage and tuned a bunch to be totally badass (the little convertible with brown seats is my favorite racer, the limo is my favorite tank), then sold off a few of the convertibles (like 4500 ea) and died in a police chase, resetting all that progress. Did it all again, grabbed the playboy for the next mission (which gives the save icon), but it didn't save any of the car stuff. Wish they had more call for the car variety, basically they give you the car you need most of the time, one thing I liked about the original was car selection for a mission. I also miss the open garage of the original, where you could see your collection all laid out.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Jeff Kelly on January 14, 2011, 12:34:49 PM
I agree with the story aspects. It's a decent mafia story and especially a decent game story. Though with the way The Godfather, Goodfellas and Co. have permeated  popular culture it's not exactly a challenge either to come up with something of this quality.

You also described my biggest gripe with the game which was the stupid save points. I've done the end-boss gun battle probably more than 30 times (on normal difficulty) before I beat it getting more and more frustrated with the fact that I had to replay basically the whole mission (which is probably more like 10 minutes added to each try than 5) and it's not the only mission. There's the car chase, the battle in the obervatory and another one against the irish gang which have equally frustrating save points.

Then there's the fact that enemy cars are nigh indestructable and won't stop even if you repeatedly crash into them and riddle them with bullet holes making some chase missions really frustrating to complete.

Yet what curiously enough angered me more were the small details that they got wrong. Games like GTA or Mafia have so many cops that I seriously ask myself how there can be any organized crime at all. At some points I actually had to wait for 10 minutes just to find a window in which no cop or patrol car was in sight.

Also Mafia is few steps back as far as features are concerened that you are kind of used to from GTA and Co. The musical selection is small. You have three stations but the music and flavor text gets repeated after maybe 20 minutes, which a lot less than with GTA. The game constantly suggests to you that you can do more than you actually can. I have to manually walk to my appartment, eat and drink and go to bed and I can pick locks but that's about everything I can interact with and even that isn't always possible.

Also replayability is diminished by the fact that I cannot revisit locations. The races, package collection or graffiti tag minigames in GTA can be done at any point during the game, by the time you actually stumble upon the first playboy cover or wanted poster however you probably are no longer able to collect all of them (some are only available during certain missions), not that there is any point in doing so because you don't get anything for completing your collection (well except a trophy or achievement).

So if it weren't for extremely polished open worlders like GTA, red dead redemption or just cause, which offer more ways to interact with the world, more and better side quests and mini games a lot more flavor and athmosphere and better controls, Mafia 2 would be a great game, so it's just a decent addition to the genre.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Sky on January 14, 2011, 01:47:38 PM
Did you play the first? I can excuse some of the relative linearity of Mafia 2, because I was prepared for it by the original. I think the second is a mixed bag, some things done better, some not quite as good. Overall I liked both games and still recommend them.

The cops everywhere doesn't bother me, otherwise the game would be way too chaotic. The only time that bothered me was trying to get the mission Thunderbird for my garage, not realizing they are unlocked around the city after that. Died a few times with lots of crazy chases and gun battles in between just to get three blocks to the garage to swap plates. Actually, that didn't even bother me so much as it was pretty entertaining.

I guess that's what I keep going back to. 90% of the time, the game is keeping me entertained. Might be a bit lacking in scope, but I'd rather have that then a game that tried to do too much and underdelivered.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 15, 2011, 06:49:18 PM
I agree with everything Jeff said, and all of those things do stand out. I played the original for about 5 minutes a long time ago, so effectively no. I had read about how linear the game is and how there pretty much are no side missions, but just how linear the game is wasn't apparent until I played it, and I was also disappointed when I realised that I needed to divert from a mission (either before or afterwards) to collect more cars or tune them so they would get saved with the normal "end of day" gameplay. It was shortly after I found the Playboy in Derek's office when I started to think that maybe you had to effectively know where they are in the missions in order to collect them all, and this was confirmed when I found the next one inside the sewers.

Also agree with Sky on the suits & glasses issue. I found it disappointing that I couldn't seem to find a classic black suit with long tie. You know, like every other character in the game seems to wear.

In the end, glad I played it, glad I paid what I did for it via Steam sale. No regrets - I'll probably play through the DLC missions at some stage, but I can't see ever replaying the game itself.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Sky on January 16, 2011, 01:00:19 PM
I love the atmosphere and I'm tempted to replay it. The only thing really staying my hand is all my backlog of other good games.

Just finished, on hard. Only real gripe was that mission to kill Derek, and that only because of the save point being so far back from the main challenge. I had thought at first it wasn't letting you use a car, because I couldn't get in the car that rolls up with goons (better armor, I was driving a convertible). But it let me drive my convertible into the back of the building, use it for cover and clear out from that side. Worked great, one try to figure it out and the next try (for reals) I beat it.

Obsevatory was hard, but goes to show what a difference a good save point makes. Getting down the stairs and in proper cover was pretty brutal, there was one guy right in the front (not the guy who rushes the stairs, the guy directly on the left) with a shotgun who dictated using the left side for cover (or he'd insta-kill, on hard a shotgun is an instakill for the player). About half the time he'd also get me as I ran for the left side cover, but with the save point right there, I was only losing about ten seconds per try, no big deal.

Really enjoyed the game overall and the ending was pretty good (I saved Leo, not sure if there were other endings). Steam says I got about 25 hours out of it before hitting the two DLC parts. I'm upgrading my recommendation to a full Buy It, with a caution to read this thread :) Also, get the playboy walkthrough ^^ Play it on hard. Tune up all your cars in chapter 11, hit up the observatory to get the convertible with brown seats and the limo (that convertible sells great to Derek, I forgot to sell him 5 for the achievement, though).

One last note - I wish there were more incidental encounters, like the woman and her husband arguing over the broken car or the guy confronting the hooker. Added a really nice flavor to the usual point A to point B stuff. Ok, one final note (heh) - the game is strong enough that I went back and soldiered through the one giant pita (until you read my solution, heh!) part of the game because I really wanted to spend more time in the atmosphere of the game, and see how the story turned out (without cheating!). I don't think I've ever done that before, testament to the production values imo.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 17, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
I reckon we'll have to agree to disagree in the end. I can't see any point to playing on hard, collecting the playboys, collecting money/selling cars or even upgrading the cars. There's only the one, linear ending. Still worth playing, though.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Tebonas on January 18, 2011, 12:58:58 AM
Games with one linear ending are fine if the story is told well. From the part of the game I already played thats the case in Mafia 2.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Jeff Kelly on January 18, 2011, 04:07:23 AM
Well it's the same issue I have with other game and it has more to do with entertainment value.

The mafia single player campaign is most likely finished after 8 to 10 hours, even on hard. If you discount all of the useless filler and delay tactics like the drives from and to the missions, the 'walking to the appartment and going to bed' bits and the way the save points are laid out it would be even less. Ten hours in in Fallout 3 or New Vegas I had barely left the starting area.

I am reluctant to spend full price on games that are over after less than ten hours. The grand theft auto mini games are basically also just delay tactics but at least they mattered to some extend by upgrading your cars or weapons or giving you other perks that might be useful for the main story missions so you'd at least have some justification in doing them. In other games like Heavy Rain I've at least different endings or other story paths if I start over just like in the 'tell your own adventure' type of books.

Top releases are now at 60 to 70 Euro suggested retail price (80 to 90 dollars) which buys me ten trips to the movies, a really nice night in town or the whole six seasons of Lost on BluRay. For me that's too expensive for a game that only gives me less than ten hours of entertainment, even if it has a great story. The Godfather trilogy would be less money and would probably entertain me for the same length of time basically (or even more if I'm into the bonus stuff).

So yes it's a nice game but it's not on par with other open world games like Red Dead Redemption, Just Cause 2 or GTA IV. I was entertained but I expect somewhat more when I buy those types of games today and would probably not spend full price to get it.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Tebonas on January 18, 2011, 04:36:25 AM
Thats why I buy most games only in a 75% steam sale (50% if I really want it), apart from the games I know will give me many hours of entertainment.

I feel somewhat cheated as well when my roleplaying games are finished in less that 100 hours, but I think thats my age showing.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Jeff Kelly on January 18, 2011, 08:27:24 AM
Yeah, I too remember a time when reviewers complained about games that were finished in less than 50 hours.

I feel as if the old game release mentality clashes with the needs of a significantly larger audience than ten years ago.

If your audience is teenagers or young adults that have significantly more time on their hands than adults you can produce games that take longer to fiinish and where individual quests and missions take longer to complete . An older type of gamer with husband/wife and kids would probably not buy that game. He might only be able to dedicate time in chucnks of half an hour or hour and might take months to complete the game, a commitment one most probably doesn't make.

On the other hand games compete with more types of entertainment and have to offer a baseline of entertainment value per dollar. Unfortunately modern game development is expensive which leads to a certain price point that I probably cannot go below. (Also insanely high distribution and licencing costs for console games)

So you have people that don't have the time nor the inclination to buy those games and people that feel cheated if they spend 70 bucks on a short game but I need a certain number of people to break even, an audience that's significantly larger than ten years ago.

You could fund projects like Fallout or Planescape torment with five digit sales. Today you'd probably need 2 - 500,000.

This directly explains the structure of modern games. You either have challenges, levels or quests that you can complete in less than an hour/half an hour and/or a main quest that's completeable in a certain amount of time.

Where games differ is if they offer you more than that. The game world in Fallout 3 is even larger than in Mafia 2 and from a development point of view creation should be on equal terms money wise. If you just stick to the main quest you can probably finish Fallout 3 in the same time as Mafia 2 and they even designed their challenge system in a way that it doesn't matter if you are Level 1 or 30 when you finish it (Challenges adapt to Level), yet you have a lot of side quests and things to do so that people like us, that invest a lot of time in those games and like to explore every nook and cranny actually can spend 100 hours with a game.

That's what distinguishes Mafia 2 from for example GTA IV.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 18, 2011, 08:32:23 AM
Games with one linear ending are fine if the story is told well. From the part of the game I already played thats the case in Mafia 2.

That wasn't a criticism, it was a response to Sky not being sure if there are multiple endings. JK's (earlier) post is spot on, though Read Dead seems a little pointless in many ways, despite being the opposite to this in terms of openness - money has no meaning there either after an easily-reached early point, and so many money-making activities just become a bit pointless since there's no longer any purchased items to strive for.

In response to JK's second post - I actually don't mind short games these days. Especially if they're good(!) It means I can actually finish them while still having to go to work, spend time with family, etc, etc. With all of that and the relaxed pace I usually take, a 10-hour game still usually takes me 1-3 weeks to finish. I also tend to spend a bit of time on [MMOG] and [MP-FPS], so other games are my downtime between longer-term games.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Jeff Kelly on January 18, 2011, 09:58:53 AM
I agree, I don't oppose short games per se, I just won't buy them above a certain price point.

With that in mind I'm actually a big fan of digital distribution because the largest fraction of the current retail price stems from licensing costs and retail and logistics overhead. The development studio doesn't usually get significantly more per phyiscal game sold at a brick and mortar store than if it sells it over Steam or another app store at reduced price.

The CEO of Popcap once stated that they even get more per unit sold from app store sales at $2.39 per game than the same game sold at a brick and mortar store for $19.99 or $29.99, even with the 70/30 split. The rest is just overhead costs from publishers, distributors and so on.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Sky on January 18, 2011, 11:57:40 AM
The mafia single player campaign is most likely finished after 8 to 10 hours, even on hard. If you discount all of the useless filler and delay tactics like the drives from and to the missions, the 'walking to the appartment and going to bed' bits and the way the save points are laid out it would be even less. Ten hours in in Fallout 3 or New Vegas I had barely left the starting area.

So yes it's a nice game but it's not on par with other open world games like Red Dead Redemption, Just Cause 2 or GTA IV. I was entertained but I expect somewhat more when I buy those types of games today and would probably not spend full price to get it.
Well, I got 25 hours out of it and I've just started the DLC (which might be another couple hours). I don't rush through games, and I don't see stuff like car upgrading as time sinks, because I'm enjoying the game while I do it (except the checkpoint saves that can undo that side stuff...)

I don't put Mafia 2 in the same category as those other games, but I played the original and know what I'm getting into. It has an open city, but it's not really that kind of game.

As far as linear,
Anyway. Jeff K, you seem to be looking for a game that's not Mafia 2. That's cool, but the rant about short games is probably mis-placed, there's room for both styles and Mafia is not under ten hours unless you're powergaming through it (and then you might need to do some self-reflection on disliking short games but rushing through them). Making the world of Mafia more open might be cool, but might be a pain in the ass like GTA4. I've played GTA 4 twice and not finished, I've finished Mafia 2 and got a much more satisfying experience out of it.

Anyway, pt2. Definitely going to play through the Joe DLC, it seems like a good adjunct to the main story. Starting over again, since looking at the menu there are playboys and I probably missed a couple. The Jimmy DLC seems a bit more tacked on and random, but I'll give it a fair shot after Joe's. One thing, on playing the Jimmy opening missions I ran through it on medium, thinking of this conversation. You get minimap icons showing the facings of the enemy? That's just lame. The game is much better on hard, where you actually don't know when an enemy is hiding around the next corner.

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 18, 2011, 09:15:18 PM

According to Steam, it took me 18 hours to finish the game, which isn't exactly powering through, either. I haven't played the DLC stuff yet, taking a break before I do. We're all really circling the same points here though. Different people enjoy things for different reasons. Sky, you like just soaking up the atmosphere and upgrading your cars and so forth, I find it all a bit hollow. Nothing wrong with either - they're just opinions. I found the game to be enough fun to play through and recommend as a cheap purchase, or a rental for a weekend/week/etc - because for me it's not a replayable game. For you it is. Different opinions, but No problem. :)

Title: Re: Mafia II - 2K Czech - PC (Steam)
Post by: Azazel on January 21, 2011, 08:12:13 AM
Just watched Goodfellas. Haven't seen it for a few years now, so always a good rewatch. I was wanting to watch it when I was playing through Mafia, but as it happens, my wife picked it out to watch. It really brings home the "good story, for a game" thing and even makes you think about the "games as Art" arguments again. Comparing any game to Goodfellas isn't exactly fair, but then again they share a genre, and so the "one of the very best in genre" thing can be valid to an extent, and clearly Mafia 2 draws some inspiration from Goodfellas.

Dunno, I'm not here to piss on Mafia. And it certainly does atmosphere reasonably well, though that's also in large part due to the audio and period music. Story though.. it's a whole nother ballgame.