f13.net

The Utah Jazz select... the best white guy available!

This guy will make Adam Morrison look like a smart choice before it's all over.  

Andrew Bogut is turning into one of the bestbetter centers in the league.  

Very true.  If you look at the NBA "impact players" that are critical to their teams' successes right now, though, very few of them are above 6'9".

I'd argue that a big man is more like an offensive line in football.  Sure, a great QB (PG or 1 in basketball) can get you wins, but he can do a hell of a lot more for your team with a good offensive line (basketball: big man or 5).  Kobe would have NEVER won this year without Gasol.  

120 million for Joe Johnson.  Unbelievable.  Enjoy your star who can't create his own shot.

Lebron would be silly stupid to spurn the Heat if the money is equal.  Well, if he wants to win he would be silly stupid.  If he wants to be the big fish in a small pond and be the NBA version of Ken Griffey, Jr., I guess he could do any of a number of things.

Money can't be equal cause Wade and Bosh are signing with Miami. He would have to be willing to take less than what he can get at Cleveland (the max) for a better chance to win a championship.

I live in Cleveland, was born and raised here, and I don't hold it against him for leaving. He tried to make it work for 7 years, took us to the finals (which we've never been) but we just didn't get over the hump. I think more than anything he just wanted to play with his friends. If I was to attend the Miami Vs Cleveland game I wouldn't boo him.

I think it'll be interesting to see; who exactly is the top scorer on that team? Who takes the game-winning shot?

Bitter much? :awesome_for_real:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html

I hope he wins down in Miami because I want him to get a ring. I don't want Lebron to be the Dan Marino of the NBA.

Fuck ESPN for making such a grandstanding deal about this shit. Fuck the NBA for letting them, hell, for encouraging it. The NBA has been a league about all inflated egos and substance-less style for years now. I'm a Lebron fan, because I think he plays the game the right way and is a decent enough human being, especially in comparison to other luminaries in the NBA (Kobe the Rapist, Artest the Fan Beater, and the other coach chokers, gun thugs and shitbags). But Fuck Lebron for choosing to reveal your destination in such a showy way.

But most importantly - fuck the Cavs owner for that letter. You had YEARS with Lebron to give him a team worth a fuck. You gave him shit. Even when you got to the Finals, he had nothing around him to take the pressure off of him. You turned that franchise around with Lebron - he sold tickets, put asses in seats, sold jerseys and made you more money than you would have had if you had drafted anyone else that year. You had multiple chances to show him you gave a shit about him and about winning a championship and you EPIC FAILED. I watched the Finals against San Antonio. Your team got demolished by a superior team that played the most boring game of basketball I've ever seen. But they won because they put a good TEAM together out there on the floor, not one superstar surrounded by has-beens, also-rans and bench players. You can't win with a team of 4 sixth man's and Lebron. If you'd put half the dedication into building a decent team around the superstar, even using the Indy Colts' model of lots of cheap young guys surrounding the star that you replenish when their price goes up, you still could have won. You didn't, don't bitch and whinge now. Go cry on that pile of money you made off Lebron.

Lebron didn't go for the most money or the biggest stage (they happen to be one and the same) because the Knicks are a worse franchise than the Cavs and the Nets are almost as bad. I'm not sure he'll win in Miami, as Duane Wade seems about as durable as a china doll. But at least it ain't the Lakers.

Meh hating Lebron takes too much effort because the NBA is so meaningless. The regular season hardly matters, the playoffs have been dominated by San Antonio and the Lakers for the last 12 years, and the East as a whole has been a joke since the Bulls stopped being good in 1998.

Wow, that Gilbert guy sounds like a colossal dick.  Way to throw a temper tantrum there.  If I were James I'd have given him a giant middle finger, too.

The playoffs last year where fucking amazing. Not liking Basketball is one thing, but the above statement is just wrong.

San Antonio didnt make it out of the second round this year, and didnt make it out of the first round last year. The celtics where a fantastic team the last 3 years. If you had made this post in 2007, it might hold water, but not today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5372266

There you have it. Its nothing more than about slavery.

:facepalm:

Fuck ESPN for making such a grandstanding deal about this shit.

ESPN treated it just like the fucking Favre thing. "Oh we're so sick of talking about it! Here's 16 more hours of coverage!"

Fuck right off.

I love it when the talking heads on sports shows talk about how disgusted they are with the way the media is handling things.  :facepalm:

Especially when their own network is the one that broadcast the special.

Over half and maybe even 3/4 of ESPN's coverage, in general, is of the NFL.  Which I guess it should be, considering the popularity of the sport. 

Nothing interesting happens during the NBA season.

The NBA financial model has been utterly and completely broken for decades. The league would be in much better shape if David Stern got hit by a bus tomorrow.

Fans in Atlanta booed the shit out of Lebron. Also, that's the most people we've had at a preseason game in like...ever.

The NBA has improved by leaps and bounds over the 98-2005 time frame after Jordan left.  Kobe is absolutely turning into a top five player ever and the Heat trio will be a lot of fun to watch.  It should be a good season.

It should be interesting with the Miami Heat taking over the role of the evil empire

But they love assholes like Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan and Michael Vick.  I'm a huge Lebron fan.  I hope he does great. 

It is the white folks who mostly hate LeBron, not black. I happened to catch some ESPN polling stuff this last weekend while hunting for Giants highlights at the hotel and his 'favorability' is at like 30% with white people and 65% with black.

It is the white folks who mostly hate LeBron, not black.

"When I look at my GM/executive record, if I'm evaluated on that, then whoever's after Donnie, if you're not talking about some of the top people in the game, I'll put my draft evaluation record up against anyone's."

I don't know how he's doing this year, but last year he was the best "clutch" performer in the NBA by a wide margin:

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

Let's be fair. Kobe and Lebron can both put up 40 a game in the playoffs. They weren't the difference in why the Lakers won and the Cavs lost. The difference is that the Lakers could spread the ball around to other people if Kobe went cold early on. It wasn't all on him. They had the much better team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

Those last few games against the Magic, I think he quit,

So the Bobcats fired Larry Brown and replaced him with Paul Silas.  When would you ever, ever think that Paul Fucking Silas is a good choice, even as an interim coach?  

All the pro leagues are devolving into this same top heavy bullshit.  The talent pool is now so watered down due to the massive over expansion of the leagues that the "small market" will very rarely have a chance to compete.  We haven't really seen it in the NBA too much but with the Lakers, Miami, Celtics and Knicks looking to horde talent it's starting to become baseball. 

All the pro leagues are devolving into this same top heavy bullshit.

All the pro leagues are devolving into this same top heavy bullshit.  The talent pool is now so watered down due to the massive over expansion of the leagues that the "small market" will very rarely have a chance to compete.  We haven't really seen it in the NBA too much but with the Lakers, Miami, Celtics and Knicks looking to horde talent it's starting to become baseball.  

The nfl would like a word with you, actually the nhl would too it has a host of problems but top heavy bullshit isn't exactly one of them. So that leaves you with half instead of all but yes we can all agree with Lebron that the nba regular season would be less boring if there were fewer bad teams.

All the pro leagues are devolving into this same top heavy bullshit.  The talent pool is now so watered down due to the massive over expansion of the leagues that the "small market" will very rarely have a chance to compete.  We haven't really seen it in the NBA too much but with the Lakers, Miami, Celtics and Knicks looking to horde talent it's starting to become baseball.  

It's not necessarily about the number of teams that have won the titles.  The bigger issue is that the same teams are completely shitty year after year, e.g. the Raiders and the Lions and the Pirates and the Royals and the Clippers.  Bleh. 

It's not necessarily about the number of teams that have won the titles.  The bigger issue is that the same teams are completely shitty year after year, e.g. the Raiders and the Lions and the Pirates and the Royals and the Clippers.  Bleh. 

Raiders, Pirates, and Royals have all won in the last 30 years.

Yeah, I'd much prefer smaller leagues across the board with fewer but higher quality games.  There just aren't enough good players to fill these leagues.

And fuck over a bunch of cities, and put a lot of people out of work.  :why_so_serious:

Are you going to ever make up your mind? TOP HEAVY BULLSHIT BAD ... NO WAIT, ONE TEAM WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP FOREVER GOOD

I am 100% certain if they shrunk the league so it's some sort of CFL hellhole where it is always, ALWAYS the Alouettes versus Whoever Didn't Choke in the finals, you wouldn't like it as much as you think you would.

All that would happen is we'd get even pickier.

Unfortunately that contradicts one of your earlier statements Ghost, some of those teams have very talented players. The problem isn't the talent pool, it's mismanagement, poor coaching, rebuilding and youth.

Seriously though, I think it is striking that the sport with the *least* amount of revenue management (Baseball only has the luxury tax, no salary cap, no real revenue sharing) actually has the best competitive balance, despite all the whining about the Yankees.

if they didn't have to deal with the salary cap and a roster limit.

Getting this discussion a little bit more on target, I believe that the following NBA teams could be cut and it would significantly help the overall level of play by having a supplemental draft for the other lower tier NBA teams.

1.  Washington Wizards
2.  Toronto Raptors
3.  Minnesota Timberwolves
4.  Memhpis Grizzlies

The Hawks and the Magic???  :ye_gods:

Was curious so I looked up the bottom 5 teams by home attendance per game this year:

26   Hawks   14,172
27   Pacers   13,943
28   76ers           13,885   
29   Kings      13,292   
30   Nets          12,929

Not a lot of overlap with the suggestions in the thread (but hi2u Nets.)

I can't allow the Nets to be removed though, the antics of Russian Steinbrenner promise to be too entertaining.

I'm always embarrassed by Atlanta's unwillingness to show up for anything when a team is doing well. The Hawks are 4th in the East, and 2 games behind Miami for the division lead. And yet, they are 5th to last in attendence next to teams that have zero shot at making the playoffs.  :facepalm:

They're a little low for middle of the pack, but it's still fucking amazing.  They're fucking awful. 

They're a little low for middle of the pack, but it's still fucking amazing.  They're fucking awful. 

People go because what the hell else is there to do in Toronto?  :why_so_serious:

They're a little low for middle of the pack, but it's still fucking amazing.  They're fucking awful. 

Two sources close to the situation told ESPN.com's Marc Stein that Sloan reacted angrily during Wednesday night's home loss when guard Deron Williams called his own play on the floor different from the play Sloan called from the sideline.

Are the Hornets on the chopping block (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6125242)? 

I would think they would be a possibility for relocation far before contraction.  They have a good team.  To that point, I'm really surprised there isn't a team in San Diego.  Las Vegas could probably support a team, too, although the politics of that might be a bit off putting. 

That's it though.  I couldn't think of anywhere that could support a team other than those teams and St. Louis.  Any other options you can think of?

Heinrich is a good little player.  He's a combo guard and what I would call a "glue guy" in that he doesn't make a lot of mistakes and makes people around him better.  He won't replace Bibby, for sure, and is a totally different player. 

Went to a Spurs game last night.  Manu Ginobili is a really, really solid basketball player.  He doesn't have the physique of a lot of these guys and yet he still takes it strong to the hole and passes like a point guard. 

He flops from time to time, no doubt.

There is a several month back order on Melo jerseys and the knicks raised ticket prices by 40% for next year, and honestly no matter how bad they are doing now the team with two real superstars will be better off than the team with a bunch of good roleplayers eventually.

Reminding us once again that New York fans are idiots.

My point is that basketball teams are actually in the business of making money, like any other business.  Wins and losses matter some, but there is no way in hell getting Carmelo Anthony can be seen as a bad move, even if the knicks end up in the lottery for years to come.  Which they shouldn't, Miami sucked for stretches too and they've managed to turn into a scary team.

I am pulling for the Bulls in the postseason this year. Derrick Rose, while I don't think he should be the MVP (it should be Dwight Howard), is incredibly fun to watch. In the West I'm pulling for the Thunder, mostly because I really like watching Kevin Durant and Brian Westbrook.

It is pathetic, I believe the thinking would be that eventually this will start evening out but I have to think maybe we should start restructuring which teams are in which conference? There's been a huge disparity for years, and it's really unfair to those 9 or 10 seeds out West that would easily make the playoffs in the East.

Having those worthless teams actually inflates the record of the good teams in the west.

The Bulls are starting to look like the real deal after a shaky start to the season.  Good, I like the Bulls.

It's going to be sad when Dwight Howard becomes a free agent next year (I think?) and Orlando goes back to being a nobody for another 20 years.  If only they could learn to be consistent, they might actually win a championship.

I love how no one gives props to the Spurs year after year.  That said I was more confident of them a few weeks ago before their slide but I still think they have it in them to go all the way.  LOS SPURS  :drill:

I want to amend my prediction. I don't think Boston can do it any more. Not since the Perkins trade. They are playing like crap, and they have no real threat in the middle. Not to mention that team chemistry seems to be shot to shit.

13. Atlanta Hawks
Six reasons we need a lockout ...

$16,324,500
$18,038,573
$19,752,645
$21,466,718
$23,180,790
$24,894,863

That's what Atlanta owes Joe Johnson, by year, through 2016. You know, because any time you can totally overpay someone hitting his 30s who isn't one of the best 15 players in the league, you have to do it.

Seems like pretty soon the East is going to be Boston and Miami and no one else.

Thunder actually have an chance to nab the number 2 seed in the west, which is insane.  I hope they make it deep into the playoffs...I'm fucking tired of the Lakers and Celtics.

I, on the other hand, hope they never win another game. Fuck Clay Bennett in his inbred lying asshole.

Boston is done, they are too old.  The only way they can even contend in the playoffs is by shutting down during the season.  It worked last year, they basically quit playing after christmas and got to the Finals, this year they had to fight harder and it has cost them.  The east is going to be Miami and Chicago and whoever wins the Dwight Howard lotto, if it's New Jersey and they keep Deron they are instant contenders.  Chicago might not even get past the second round this year, they are likely facing Orlando and after Howard knocks Rose on his ass a couple of times the Bulls are going to be left without an offense, either through injury or by Rose becoming a shooter instead of a driver.

I watched a ton of NBA at the beginning of the season, and then for various reasons, I didnt get to much the second half. During the first half Boston was a machine. They where too old and too tired, yet they just steamrolled everyone. I think it had to do with them having amazing chemistry and really knowing each other. I think this Perkins/Robinson trade really fucked that up.

Atlanta is going to suuuuuuuuuuuuck in the playoffs.

It's a business that is focused on making money...

I know you're right and that it's naive to want it to be otherwise, but shit, you'd like to think that people who owned professional sports teams would love the sport and care for their team before any bottom line implications.  Shit, most of them are multi-billionaires and the financial results of their sporting teams are probably only a small part of their portfolios...they just can't break the life-long habit of being the same fucking assholes that got them where they are in the first place.

All these big owners are douches.  I wouldn't be surprised if all of them had big freezers full of dead bodies somewhere. 

From what little I could glean from watching Buss play poker on TV, he seems like a decent enough dude. Which is why I was disappointed when he didn't drop Kobe when he got to rapin'.

Uh the Pacers have done incredibly well.  The Bulls are barely beating them at home and both of those games could have easily gone the other way.

You are still missing out on some good basketball if you don't think Bulls/Pacers is worth paying attention to.

He almost beat the Celtics all by himself.

Dallas is looking very good so far.

Oh boy.

Wow.  The Spurs really suck. 

Hawks getting the smackdown.  The Magic finally came to play.

Orlando plays a thoroughly average game and wins by 25, this is how i expected the series to go.  If Orlando can manage to keep playing at least average they will take the next two games too.

Haha, Lakers!

Yes, indeed.  I still think they'll win.  They are playing the Mavs afterall.

Lakers sure went out with class.  :uhrr:

I was surprised to see Bynum pull such a jackass maneuver.  He's not normally a guy you'd associate with that shit, unlike Artest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAnzAesm8e0

Quoth the announcer "that is one of the biggest Bush League things I've ever seen"

Actually, thats not true. This is the second time this year, third time in total, he has pulled that BS.

That was just crap.

OKC-Memphis is why I watch the NBA.

"I don't understand (it). It's either an oversight or they're taking me for granted," Abdul-Jabbar told The Sporting News in a recent interview. "I'm not going to try to read people's minds, but it doesn't make me happy. It's definitely a slight. I feel slighted."

The six-time NBA MVP sounded even more offended in a statement released subsequently by his business manager.

"I am highly offended by the total lack of acknowledgement of my contribution to Laker success," Abdul-Jabbar was quoted as saying. "I guess being the lynchpin for five world championships is not considered significant enough in terms of being part of Laker history."

It's definitely a slight. I feel slighted.

Dirk was simply awesome, broken finger, 104° fever and still the boss on the court.

"Listen, if the Miami Heat were playing the Washington Generals I would pick the Washington Generals," Barkley said with a chuckle. "It's something about that team that annoys me.

"They just a whiny bunch and I can't root for them."

Yeah, I think you guys are giving the Mavs a bit too much credit.  The Heat have simply collapsed near end of games and reverted into their early-season hot-potato style of offense.

The Mavs have played well enough to be able to capitalize on Miami's collapses, but without them this series would have been over already.

Yeah, I think you guys are giving the Mavs a bit too much credit.  The Heat have simply collapsed near end of games and reverted into their early-season hot-potato style of offense.

The Mavs have played well enough to be able to capitalize on Miami's collapses, but without them this series would have been over already.

Dwyane Wade is a far better player than Lebron.

Seriously? Before the finals Lebron was one of the top if not the best player in the playoffs. Matchups and defensive schemes matter.

You guys are fucking jokers.

You can't have it every way. If he doesn't win it proves he doesn't have it if he wins its because of Wade even though he carried Miami to the finals and nobody in their right mind would say that he couldn't have been mvp this season if not for a lot of non basketball factors.

The Jet and The Matrix......what a couple of stupid nicknames. 

How many times does it have to happen before people realize that?

I'm going to pick at that again, but the Heat aren't collapsing at the end. They are getting beat by a better team.

How many times does it have to happen before people realize that?

I'm going to pick at that again, but the Heat aren't collapsing at the end. They are getting beat by a better team.

How many times does it have to happen before people realize that?

Deshawn Stevenson did not hold Lebron to 8 points, nobody but Lebron did that.

Apparently 4.   :awesome_for_real:

And it completely exposed Lebron James yet again.  He may go down as the most overrated player to every play the game. 

Jason Terry should be MVP.

It's a little early for that.  But yah, if he doesn't make good in a final, he'll never shake it.   

Series over, baby!  Lebron James's Heat are at -23 when he's on the court (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310612014&refresh=30).  

But the Heat lost the series, right?  There's no way the Mavericks actually won it.  

He was a critical reason they won, but I disagree.  He didn't bring it every night like Nowitzki did.  Dirk deserves it more.  


Don't get me wrong, James is damned good.  But all this talk comparing him to MJ just has to stop.  The guy's nowhere close. 

He shouldn't even be in the same breath. Jordan made himself from a player with freakish athleticism but limited skills into probably the greatest all around player the game has ever seen. I hated the hype while it was going on but Jordan was a fucking assassin with 2 minutes left in the game. You just knew he was getting the ball in the last two minutes and you knew it was going in. Fucking fadeaway jumper with two guys in his face every single fucking time.

Meanwhile everybody laughs at Lebron.

You just knew he was getting the ball in the last two minutes and you knew it was going in. Fucking fadeaway jumper with two guys in his face every single fucking time.

There's more to the narrative than just the success too. It's the way he was so dramatically crucial to all that success. He not only won, but he did it in such a way that it was clearly his play that decided the outcome - which puts a strange pressure on modern players to not just win, but to win in spectacular fashion, something Bryant seemed to get caught up in at times with his shoot first and find an opening later style. Take a trip down memory lane at the story of Jordan's titles:

1991 - Defeats the best player of the last decade (Magic Johnson), has maybe the best statistical Finals ever (according to SPM it is), does the switch hand move to cap off the most ridiculous string of made field goals anybody could remember in game 2, hits a buzzer-beater in game 3 to go to OT and then dominates for the series turning win. Finishes off LA with passes to open teammates (averaged 11 assists to 3 turnovers on the series) while winning all three road games, and the lasting image is him holding the Finals trophy crying.

1992 - 6 treys and 35 points in 1st half of game 1, domination of rival Clyde Drexler, caps 15 point game 6 comeback with go-ahead steal and dunk sequence. Lasting image is the shrug.

1993 - Sets Finals record by averaging 41+ points per game. Dramatic 55 point performance in game 4 (5?) with game winning make over Barkley. Scores 9 of Chicago's 12 4th quarter points in clinching game 6 and draws the double team in the back court that frees up Paxson for the series winner. Lasting image is him whispering something in Chuck's ear after proving he was better than the MVP.

1996 - Has what might be his worst playoff series ever and still manages to have the best game of any player in the series in game 3, where he scored 35 or so and put his team up 3-0. Kerr told Simmons in one of their podcasts that he thought the team lost focus and gave up the next two, but the crucial point is that the only road game either team won was the one Jordan took in hand. Other than that it was ugly. Lasting image is Jordan on the floor with the game ball balling on Father's Day two years after his dad passed.

1997 & 1998 - In 8 Bulls wins over Utah Jordan hit 3 game winners (game 1 '97, flu game, and game 6 '98) and had a game winning assist (game 6 '97). He also closed both series with a game winning pass and a game winning assist. He basically redefined the notion of clutch and made everyone believe that even if Shaq, Robinson, and Malone had better numbers than him all year long, he was indisputably the best of the best at ages 34 and 35.

This is why his shoe company slogan is "Become legendary". The man created his own mythos on the court. And here's what's lost: he had some bad games. He missed some big shots. But nobody remembers those, and so the players cast in his role in today's games aren't given the slack at the time.

I don't hate Lebron. I think he's going to win a ring in the next 3 years. I think he needs to learn how to be humble. I think he needs to learn how to be cold in the clutch, and have the media off his back.

Now that he's lost, AGAIN. Now that he's been humbled on the biggest stage AGAIN. I think the media will ease off of him a bit. Not a ton, but enough.

Say what you will about the Cleveland teams he played for, but he didn't play alone and didn't have the seasons they had by being completely alone. Granted, he didn't have Wade or Bosch to lean on while in Cleveland, but the results with his own game are eerily similar.

I think Colin Cowherd had it right. Guys with good fathers in their lives make the best superstars in the NBA. Guys that didn't have that always seem to lack the maturity necessary to get to that pinnacle.

Lebron lacks a lot of the maturity he needs, even his is post-game interviews, to be a "cold-iron" player.

Lebron was amazing in the fourth quarter against Boston and Chicago THIS YEAR.  He just disappears completely when the stage gets big.

Seems like you have a pretty arbitrary definition of when the stage is 'big' or not. He made it farther this year, after all.

But it's not my definition that matters, it is his.  He keeps getting to a level where he seems to go "oh god i don't want to do this anymore" and checks out.

I listen to Cowherd in the mornings on my drive to work sometimes, and this guy while very sports savvy seems to have the same problem a lot of the "lebron lovers" have. They don't understand why people dont like him. They (Cowherd and others) always say "why do people hate Lebron for leaving Cleaveland" and to that I respond "We dont hate Lebron for leaving, we hate him for the way he left".

Also, I think Lebron is the greatest physical player in the NBA right now. As in pure physical talent. Its his mental game thats holding him back. I'm pretty happy Dallas won.

with success for a guy like Jason Kidd that I can remember playing for the Mavs when I was still in grade school.

I think he gets it, but he thinks that's a ridiculous reason. He's stated as such. He compared it to "it's not what you said, it's how you said it" that you get from women sometimes. He's about perspective and results, which is a good thing for a national sports analyst. Local markets put very little emphasis on either. My only problem is that he's an obvious contrarian, even though he says he's not. He could never admit it, of course, but the secret to grabbing interest is to go against the grain in sports if you can back it up with fact.

I'm happy Dallas won because I grew up there. I'm by no means a fan and won't pretend that I jumped on the bandwagon. Still it's nice to finally have some remote connection with success for a guy like Jason Kidd that I can remember playing for the Mavs when I was still in grade school.

He's stated as such. He compared it to "it's not what you said, it's how you said it" that you get from women sometimes.

Just to confirm, we're in agreement that this is bullshit - that the how can sometimes matter more than the what...right?

I thought that went without saying?