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Title: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2009, 06:31:37 AM
(http://images.mmorpg.com/images/newsimages/402009/war1321.jpg)


Quote
Game update 1.3.2 brings exciting new improvements to Tier 4 Realm vs. Realm campaign gameplay with better rewards for Keep attacks and defenses, and more frequent capital city invasions. A completely revamped new user experience makes it easier than ever for new recruits to join the WAR, and many new UI improvements and career balance changes and bug fixes make this an update not to miss!



EDIT: RIGHT! the link (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=937), just in case my non-formated version sucks.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on October 01, 2009, 07:20:47 AM
Quote
* Many crowd control changes have been introduced with this update. In addition to reducing the number of disabling abilities, all "stun" effects have either been removed or replaced by a knockdown or "stagger" effect. Stagger is a new condition that acts similarly to the previous stun effect, but will immediately dispel itself as soon as the staggered player is damaged.

That's a small step in the right direction.  It won't get me back, but I'm hoping that it influences future games.

I think I may check out the official forums to witness the tears. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: March on October 01, 2009, 07:38:47 AM
Quote
* User Interface: The following portions of the User Interface are now hidden at the beginning of the game and will become visible when first needed: Experience Bar, Renown Bar, Tactics Bar, Morale Bar, Zone Control Bar, and the Chapter Influence Bar. Players can opt to show all parts of the UI at any time in the User Settings.

 :oh_i_see:

Of course, doesn't actually fix the fact that not only are there too many bars, some of those bars actually represent up to 20 other mini-bars (I'm looking at you Chapter influence Bar).

Quote
* Fixed an issue that prevented the game from running on machines that have 32 or more processors.

Finally.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sobelius on October 01, 2009, 08:52:36 AM
Played on the Test Server last night in massive T4 RvR and keep taking. They allowed creation of 40/80 characters outfitted with full Invader and Darkpromise sets, as well as other gear, potions, talismans, etc you'd expect on a 40/80. (This may have been available before, but was first time I'd ever seen it.)

There must have been 200-250 toons (6 full WBs on Destro alone, and probably 4 on Order).  Yeah, so the entire remaining subscriber base showed. Yay!

Anyway, performance was outstanding. Nearly zero lag/hitching etc. reported, even from people running on older hardware. Of course, doesn't mean it will show up that way on the live servers unfortunately. But whatever they did to textures seems to have helped most folks.

Anyway, had fun getting to play a variety of 40/80 toons wearing gear I may never actually get on a live server :)


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on October 01, 2009, 10:57:39 AM
Yay.  A miracle patch :uhrr:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soln on October 01, 2009, 11:57:38 AM
ballsy changes but way too late IMO.  But almost NGE-worthy.


They should've made incremental changes over the last year for the game they actually had working, not what they thought they built or intended the game to be.  TEH VISION once more screws up a title.  I'm looking at you Paul.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 01, 2009, 12:45:17 PM
TEH VISION once more screws up a title.  I'm looking at you Paul.

Video of the WAR vision. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_g6nxxwEs&feature=player_embedded)


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sobelius on October 01, 2009, 02:45:16 PM
ballsy changes but way too late IMO.  But almost NGE-worthy.


They should've made incremental changes over the last year for the game they actually had working, not what they thought they built or intended the game to be.  TEH VISION once more screws up a title.  I'm looking at you Paul.

I don't find the changes ballsy at all. They're just addressing a few complaints about class balance, really. When they decide to revamp the zone/tier system, completely re-do the realm-rank system, get cross-server scenarios going, and figure out what the hell is supposed to be truly "challenging" or "interesting" about ORvR, and try to shoehorn all this into one big game-changing patch without any player input, then I'll be happy to call it ballsy (hopefully the deliciously big, sweaty, and hairy type of ballsy at that).


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Morfiend on October 01, 2009, 05:11:38 PM
If they increased leveling speed by 50 to 60% I would consider giving it another go. I am just so tired of having to slog through crappy PVE games to get to the PVP.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kail on October 01, 2009, 08:53:33 PM
If they increased leveling speed by 50 to 60% I would consider giving it another go. I am just so tired of having to slog through crappy PVE games to get to the PVP.

Depends on when you left.  One of the nice things about the Land of the Dead is that all the mobs there are level 36-40, and since it's a PvP zone, anyone who can get there (level 25 or so) is automatically boosted to level 36.  Plus, once you hit level 19, you get a quest that basically grants you two or three free levels.  So, if you hang on to the quest until you level out of tier 2, you can get up to 24, quest a level, and then hit the Land of the Dead for mobs which you can kill for about 1% of a level each (most of my guys can pull a few of these at once and just AoE them down).

I'm interested in the technical improvements; I might check it out once I get sick of Aion.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on October 02, 2009, 07:19:29 AM
Some of this are needed fixes and as we wll know should of been done much much sooner.  As for test center running great and no lag, TC has always run better for me then live servers so until this patch makes it to live and you do large scale PvP there I wouldnt hold your breath on it being that improved. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on October 02, 2009, 09:23:01 AM
Video of the WAR vision. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_g6nxxwEs&feature=player_embedded)
It explains soooo much.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on October 02, 2009, 09:31:47 AM
If that were the true vision, I'm not sure it would be paint that he was using. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: March on October 02, 2009, 10:39:51 AM
Diagram of the Network code? or is that the original schematic of the steps needed to lock a zone?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: 01101010 on October 02, 2009, 11:04:08 AM
Video of the WAR vision. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_g6nxxwEs&feature=player_embedded)

Well at least he's in therapy, bless his heart... 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Tarami on October 02, 2009, 01:47:37 PM
Diagram of the Network code? or is that the original schematic of the steps needed to lock a zone?
Flight paths resulting in death in Tor Anroc?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sobelius on October 02, 2009, 02:55:21 PM
If they increased leveling speed by 50 to 60% I would consider giving it another go. I am just so tired of having to slog through crappy PVE games to get to the PVP.

You mean the T4 PvP? You can PvP from level 1 - there is no PvP to "get to". Frankly, some of the best PvP is at the lower levels.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on October 02, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
My best PvP moment was running a level 8 Disciple into the Empire starting area to explore and I accidentally got flagged.

A level 10 Ironbreaker I passed wouldn't let me flee so I turned around and beat him down.  Continuing on a group of three level fives decided to try their hand.  That fight went on a while with two War Priests and the archer class, but I finally killed one after splitting them up by doing some target switching, then the other two backed off.

Really low level fights, but it was a lot of fun.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 02, 2009, 03:41:10 PM
Dev Diary - James Casey (New User Journey) (http://warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=934)

Quote
With 1.3.2 on its way soon, I was asked to write a quick Dev Diary about some of the cool stuff you’ll be seeing in this patch.  One of the more prominent features will be our Realm versus Realm changes, which include changes to the Tier 4 campaign, notably with Fortresses.  This patch will also continue on the career balance changes started in 1.3.1, with a specific focus on crowd control.  Another cool feature is our new ‘apprenticeship’ program where players can group up or down with players of varying Ranks and be adjusted to be competitive with the player that is ‘apprenticed.’  This will allow players of any Rank to play with any other Rank characters in the game and not be at a disadvantage.

With them dropping 4 of the 6 starter areas, the new patch cutting Fortresses out of RVR and removing most crowd control, I'm stuck by how much of the improvements to WAR are being made by actually dropping features.  You could even argue that the ‘apprenticeship’ program is going a long way towards removing the significance of levels.  Not that I think any of that isn't needed but it's a bit strange to see it all described as "cool stuff".


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Modern Angel on October 03, 2009, 05:15:59 AM
Video of the WAR vision. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_g6nxxwEs&feature=player_embedded)
It explains soooo much.

It explains nothing except that he's a douchebag poseur fuck trying to obliquely compare himself to goddamned Jackson Pollack.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on October 03, 2009, 09:14:48 AM
As I said...


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Modern Angel on October 03, 2009, 06:03:24 PM
Fair enough  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Threash on October 06, 2009, 04:38:44 PM
And marauders keep on taking it in the ass, what a joke.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Setanta on October 06, 2009, 06:54:54 PM
And marauders keep on taking it in the ass, what a joke.

What's really sad is I keep being tempted into going back and checking it out again. Thank fuck they messed with bomber engineers - and the fact that my HD is full.

Did WH ever get any better? Mine never got out of the 20s because - well either they sucked in T2 or I did... or both :)


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on October 07, 2009, 07:03:14 AM
Witch Hunters are pretty badass, but then again I was RR77 by the time I quit and wearing 4 Warlord + Invader.  There wasnt a class I couldnt kill including level 80 Dok's.  I think my crit when I left was at 45%


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on October 07, 2009, 07:43:47 AM
but then again I was RR77 by the time I quit

I guess persistence paid off. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on October 07, 2009, 08:06:59 AM
but then again I was RR77 by the time I quit

I guess persistence paid off. 

Aion couldnt come out fast enough


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kageru on October 07, 2009, 10:39:32 AM

Some friends and myself are going to have a gaming weekend and explore Warhammer using trial accounts. Not so much because we're interested in playing long term but more because it might be the last chance before they shut it down. 6 x low/low servers (albeit in aussie primetime) is pretty damn sad for a big budget MMO. Messing around with the game I'm not surprised though, it feels clunky and looks pretty ugly even though I'm running at high quality. The warhammer lore is still cool, and I quite like the idea of hybrid healers, but as an MMO the designers must have realised it wasn't coming together as it should.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on October 07, 2009, 11:00:07 AM
I was lucky that I was able to level 40 via PvP only pretty much in the early months of the game.  It didnt matter if I logged in mid day or morning there were scenarios popping. Now, and the last 5 months at least you rarely could get a scenario to pop mid day and even nighttime they are often slow and there could literally be 0 scenarios from 7am till about 2pm...daily.  They could consolidate the 6 remaining servers down to 2 or 3 which I have estimated they will do by Xmas anyhow. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sobelius on October 07, 2009, 12:08:48 PM
I've been suggesting moving to a single server model over on the Warhammer forums.
I'd be willing to pick a side and stick with it if it meant a single world with plenty of pvp action.
But people are whining about "my graphics card won't be able to handle 50,000 people at a time!"
Idiots. We'd be lucky to get 1000, or even 500, people in the same place at the same time.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soulflame on October 07, 2009, 12:58:30 PM
The problem is simple:

1.  The model of RvR and PvE in WAR requires a large number of people
a.  RvR - so you have enough people fighting to keep things interesting
b.  PvE - so you have enough people spread across too many zones in order to populate PQs, and give everyone someone to play with
2.  Large numbers of people in RvR makes the game unplayable, which seems to be a combination of client machines unable to handle the textures, and the server throwing fits at having so many players in one location, or even just too many people on the server period.
3.  Everyone quits.

The quitting has been steady, and server merges do nothing to stem the quitting.  In fact, they probably hasten it, as being able to fight every once in a while is preferable to being portal stormed out because the area is already full.

The very first thing Mythic should have done was figure out how they wanted to fix the above series of problems.
1.  Make RvR and PvE smaller in scale.  Having one starter zone is a good starting point, as it will make "official" the unofficial consolidation the playerbase has undergone itself.  Spreading RvR out is one possible solution, possibly by making changes which allow smaller forces to affect battles, or the state of city sieges.  Something to spread people out.
Or
1.  Fix the engine to allow for large scale combat.  I do not understand how this is a problem, DAoC handles much larger battles fairly well.
2.  Fix the client so it stops failing so hard.

Only after that was done should the server consolidations have begun.  Because they never fixed the underlying core problems with leveling and fighting other players, people have continued to cancel their subscription.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Redgiant on October 07, 2009, 03:48:08 PM
...
1.  Make RvR and PvE smaller in scale.  Having one starter zone is a good starting point, as it will make "official" the unofficial consolidation the playerbase has undergone itself.  Spreading RvR out is one possible solution, possibly by making changes which allow smaller forces to affect battles, or the state of city sieges.  Something to spread people out.
Or
1.  Fix the engine to allow for large scale combat.  I do not understand how this is a problem, DAoC handles much larger battles fairly well.
2.  Fix the client so it stops failing so hard.

Well, DAoC resource requirements are much tinier than WARs. The polys and textures bering pushed around are much higher in size and numbers, LoD notwithstanding.

Moore's law just makes older games like DAoC seem even faster by comparison. GPU onboard memory alone is greater than the CPU memory was in DAoC's day.

But even when you adjust for inflation, yes DAoC handled more people on-screen in 2001-2002 than WAR does today. It handled around 300 people on my setup back then which wa a pretty good one for its time, and I turned off a lot of things for big fights as well.

Another factor was that when you really wanted to turn off all unnecessary effects, the extreme low end was leaner. t might look worse than anything you would want to consider modern but it was leaner.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Redgiant on October 07, 2009, 03:54:05 PM
To quote a guildmate on EQ Veeshan back when Kunark came out:

"No one cares about swaying trees if you die from low FPS fighting a dragon."

There's way too much "look at teh pretty pictures" and not enough "what the hell is supposed to motivate me to want to play more". Just throwing graphic advancements at the problem just creates more problems.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kail on October 07, 2009, 06:38:32 PM
But people are whining about "my graphics card won't be able to handle 50,000 people at a time!"
Idiots. We'd be lucky to get 1000, or even 500, people in the same place at the same time.

Lucky in the sense that I might survive the blast generated by my video card with only minor injuries, I guess.  Fucking HAL 9000 couldn't handle 1,000 people onscreen.  This game chugs with even 100 people in a siege.  You can't even enter a fortress with more than like, what, two hundred people total in zone?

Of all the problems WAR has, I think this will be the toughest (from an "amount of work involved" standpoint) to fix.  Which is why, if they have fixed it with this patch, I retain a glimmer of hope.  But the time to notice that the game can't actually handle it's own endgame would have been in beta, and I am somewhat skeptical that they can miracle patch this thing live.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: BitWarrior on October 07, 2009, 09:11:12 PM
But the time to notice that the game can't actually handle it's own endgame would have been during engine selection.

Fixed.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on October 08, 2009, 06:10:34 AM
This is where going to Aion from Warhammer is such a relief graphically and performance wise.  I mean I have a decent system and its OC'd to 3.8Ghz but in WHO Id drop to horrible FPS with the right amount of people around.  It also wasnt just graphical lag though, their own server would get behind and lag up PvP combat which if you were melee you were royally screwed cause everything would get out of sync. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kageru on October 08, 2009, 09:08:17 AM

Warhammer looks pretty crappy anyway.

I especially like the fact that they invent classes dependant on chained combinations (swordmaster in this case) in a game whose UI lag makes attempting to do so a right pain. Even when solo and beating on one mob it feels mushy and imprecise. In PvP it's just random. Mob position doesn't seem to be much better, on agro they glide over the terrain to where the server has decided they really are.

What did they do with all the money they spent..


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on October 08, 2009, 09:12:58 AM
Made bad wall art.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on October 08, 2009, 10:12:13 AM
What did they do with all the money they spent..


Sounds like they made the money hats first :)


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: angry.bob on October 08, 2009, 07:00:01 PM
If they increased leveling speed by 50 to 60% I would consider giving it another go. I am just so tired of having to slog through crappy PVE games to get to the PVP.

It's much faster than that. I've been playing again for the past three months after the free time if you come back. You can go to LoTD at level 25 and it boosts you up to level 36 - you can solo any non elite in LoTD including 40's. The big thing though is the skeleton PQ right outside the warcamps. If you don't follow the boss and kill him the PQ resets in about 2 minutes. Leveling groups are usually there and you can go from level 25 to 38 in about 6 or 7 hours. Once you hit 38 you can just go solo stuff to 40 (another afternoon) while you queue for scenarios or go do RvR. In the last three months I've leveled 4 guys up to forty.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 09, 2009, 08:43:21 AM
But the time to notice that the game can't actually handle it's own endgame would have been during engine selection.

Fixed.

Performance in a MMO has more to do with the game layer, that purely the engine. The engine they have used (Gamebryo) is quite a capable engine. Its all in how you use it.



Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soln on October 09, 2009, 10:31:42 AM
But the time to notice that the game can't actually handle it's own endgame would have been during engine selection.

Fixed.

Performance in a MMO has more to do with the game layer, that purely the engine. The engine they have used (Gamebryo) is quite a capable engine. Its all in how you use it.


excellent point

Edit: also this:  http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/warhammeronline.com

Check out the 6 month trailing average  Also, "3 month change   -28%"


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: KallDrexx on October 09, 2009, 12:12:02 PM
It's not just the game layer that gets messed up though.  Most engines have to be modified to work well in a seamless MMO environment and thus most dev teams try to tweak the hell out of it.  Just because an engine proves to be capable for some games doesn't mean its the right choice for an MMO.

I learned first hand with Fury that you can take an amazing engine (UE3) and completely fubar it up to the point that you can't even take optimizations that the original engine developers have made because of the heavy modifications made to it.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Montague on October 11, 2009, 11:32:24 PM
But the time to notice that the game can't actually handle it's own endgame would have been during engine selection.

Fixed.

Performance in a MMO has more to do with the game layer, that purely the engine. The engine they have used (Gamebryo) is quite a capable engine. Its all in how you use it.


excellent point

Edit: also this:  http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/warhammeronline.com

Check out the 6 month trailing average  Also, "3 month change   -28%"

WAR has fallen below critical mass, the end should come relatively soon. Speaking of which, Garthilk announced he's leaving Warhammer Alliance.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soln on October 12, 2009, 11:43:46 AM
Quote
Garthilk announced he's leaving Warhammer Alliance.

LOL someone page Dr.Schild! That's unpossible 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: IainC on October 12, 2009, 11:53:38 AM
(http://www.antipwn.com/PBFB.JPG)


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: tazelbain on October 12, 2009, 11:59:02 AM
It fills me with despair to see an artist of Paul's caliber censored.  No, wait...


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soulflame on October 12, 2009, 01:15:11 PM
What's a meetong, and what is the relevance to DAoC?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 12, 2009, 02:14:58 PM
I suspect they figured out they will get a better return, with regards to investing development time in DAoC as opposed to WAR.  Christmas is going to be interesting, I think they need more server merges before it, otherwise it's going to get really ugly (ok, even more ugly).

http://www.warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=941

Quote
Q. Are we ever going to see a buff to Experience gained while grouping, to encourage more grouping and less soloing?

A. As a social game, we always want to encourage players to group up and work together.  We’ve taken steps to help people get together already, for example the introduction of summoning stones, and we continue to work on improving and encouraging the social nature of WAR. That being said, yes we are discussing ways that we can improve the group experience; however, changing group Exp/Renown/Influence generation has a fairly broad effect on our game. As such we’re approaching it with caution.

It's been a year, "caution" isn't the word.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: UnSub on October 12, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
I can't wait for the announcement of Barnett joining the DAOC team.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Modern Angel on October 13, 2009, 06:53:15 AM
Jesus that picture fills me with indescribable rage. Fucking people doing important work, real art, around the world and this pompous piece of shit has the audacity to pull that, as if the suits at EA are trying to shut him up instead of egging him on for the fatbeards to fawn over his "edginess". I hope he gets hit by a bus full of jailed Burmese dissidents.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lum on October 13, 2009, 08:48:29 AM
I know nerd rage is fun but that's been Paul's profile picture for... pretty much forever.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: EWSpider on October 13, 2009, 08:56:53 AM
I can't wait for the announcement of Barnett joining the DAOC team.  :why_so_serious:

Please no.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: IainC on October 13, 2009, 08:57:04 AM
Correct. I posted it for the DAoC reference as a pointer that more resources seem to be moving from WAR to DAoC.

Edit; in response to Lum.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lum on October 13, 2009, 09:23:22 AM
As Creative Director at Mythic, it would be Paul's *job* to sit in on meetings for every Mythic game, and would always have been.

That being said, yeah, a lot of people are moving from WAR to UO and DAOC.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: IainC on October 13, 2009, 11:18:28 AM
As Creative Director at Mythic, it would be Paul's *job* to sit in on meetings for every Mythic game, and would always have been.

That being said, yeah, a lot of people are moving from WAR to UO and DAOC.

Fair enough, I was under the impression that he was the Creative Director for WAR rather than the Creative Director for Mythic. You'd know better than me about how compartmentalised different projects are there.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Modern Angel on October 13, 2009, 01:15:15 PM
I know nerd rage is fun but that's been Paul's profile picture for... pretty much forever.

I know. I've also been nerd raging at Barnett's goofy ass for... pretty much forever.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: UnSub on October 13, 2009, 06:22:33 PM
As Creative Director at Mythic, it would be Paul's *job* to sit in on meetings for every Mythic game, and would always have been.

That being said, yeah, a lot of people are moving from WAR to UO and DAOC.

It might have been his job, but I'm sure WAR was getting the lion's share of attention right up until Mythic got the idea that EA might pull the plug any day now. Hence shifting people onto more stable, profitable projects to ensure they still have jobs.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Modern Angel on October 13, 2009, 06:32:56 PM
Why wouldn't they just pull the plug on the entire studio and shunt it over to Bioware or whoever to keep on life support?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: UnSub on October 13, 2009, 07:06:43 PM
Why wouldn't they just pull the plug on the entire studio and shunt it over to Bioware or whoever to keep on life support?

It's best not to cross the streams.

To some degree EA has already jammed the weird RPG guys and the weird MMO guys together under one roof. BioWare is the butch the relationship already. However, if Mythic got pulled as a studio all their projects would likely die at the same time and BioWare wouldn't start focusing on developing any MMO other than SWOR regardless.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: HaemishM on October 14, 2009, 02:33:53 PM
I know nerd rage is fun but that's been Paul's profile picture for... pretty much forever.

Doesn't make him any less of a cockgobbler.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Hayduke on October 16, 2009, 07:39:30 AM
I suspect they figured out they will get a better return, with regards to investing development time in DAoC as opposed to WAR.  Christmas is going to be interesting, I think they need more server merges before it, otherwise it's going to get really ugly (ok, even more ugly).

http://www.warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=941

Quote
Q. Are we ever going to see a buff to Experience gained while grouping, to encourage more grouping and less soloing?

A. As a social game, we always want to encourage players to group up and work together.  We’ve taken steps to help people get together already, for example the introduction of summoning stones, and we continue to work on improving and encouraging the social nature of WAR. That being said, yes we are discussing ways that we can improve the group experience; however, changing group Exp/Renown/Influence generation has a fairly broad effect on our game. As such we’re approaching it with caution.

It's been a year, "caution" isn't the word.


I really wish they'd just change exp and inf in groups so that there's no split at all, at least in PQs.  I put in a suggestion as such but got no interest in it at all.  But tbh it's a lot faster to level now than it was at release because of LoTD.  Go in at 25, get bolstered to 36, solo a level 40 mob and get 6k exp while rested.  6k per mob all the way to 40 is pretty nice (course it drops down to a third of that without rested).  Getting people to group up at 1-39 just seems like such a no brainer.  I mean yeah the ORvR zerg is fun, but sometimes you want a change of pace.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sheepherder on October 16, 2009, 08:39:20 AM
I really wish they'd just change exp and inf in groups so that there's no split at all, at least in PQs.

This is something you're unlikely to see any major game do anytime soon, as it effectively multiplies experience gain by the number of people in a group, and the last thing any MMO company wants to see is a full strength Warband/Raid/Foozle Hunter Party sweep across a zone single file collecting every mob as they go gathering them together to AoE them down.

That would be pretty :awesome_for_real: though.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Hayduke on October 16, 2009, 08:57:20 AM
This is something you're unlikely to see any major game do anytime soon, as it effectively multiplies experience gain by the number of people in a group, and the last thing any MMO company wants to see is a full strength Warband/Raid/Foozle Hunter Party sweep across a zone single file collecting every mob as they go gathering them together to AoE them down.

I would limit it to parties, not warbands.  But what you're describing (AE squads) is pretty much how it's done now.  Only nobody wants certain classes for these exp groups.  You want one healer, one tank, and AE dps.  If the exp wasn't split there wouldn't be a penalty for taking along single target dps, or an extra healer/tank.  I just don't see the harm at this point in making the trip a little faster and encouraging grouping.  This was actually how Shadowbane did it which is where I got the idea, but yeah I doubt Mythic would be that fun.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: waffel on October 16, 2009, 04:30:11 PM
Not sure whats worse about paul's picture - the fact that he/someone used a black and white filter to make it more 'artsy' or the fact that he's wearing a jean jacket.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sheepherder on October 16, 2009, 08:04:05 PM
I just don't see the harm at this point in making the trip a little faster and encouraging grouping.  This was actually how Shadowbane did it which is where I got the idea, but yeah I doubt Mythic would be that fun.

he problem is that while it would be a pretty awesome way to encourage grouping, it would leave solo players stranded, and once the majority of players move along to the endgame en masse the only option becomes solo.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Typhon on October 17, 2009, 07:16:18 AM
I just don't see the harm at this point in making the trip a little faster and encouraging grouping.  This was actually how Shadowbane did it which is where I got the idea, but yeah I doubt Mythic would be that fun.

he problem is that while it would be a pretty awesome way to encourage grouping, it would leave solo players stranded, and once the majority of players move along to the endgame en masse the only option becomes solo.

I'm honestly not trying to be a douche, but if they are a solo player by choice, isn't their primary option to play solo anyway?  Am I not getting what you are trying to say here?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sheepherder on October 18, 2009, 03:30:48 AM
Final Fantasy XII.  Dungeons and Dragons Online.

Overly rewarding group play is the same as punishing solo play.  The problem isn't players choosing to go solo, it's players being unable to find groups, and instead of taking their solo cockpunch they'll just get sick of that shit and leave.  Or rant about easy-mode games on a computer within a mental institution.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nightblade on October 23, 2009, 12:28:13 PM
Final Fantasy XII.  Dungeons and Dragons Online.

Overly rewarding group play is the same as punishing solo play.  The problem isn't players choosing to go solo, it's players being unable to find groups, and instead of taking their solo cockpunch they'll just get sick of that shit and leave.  Or rant about easy-mode games on a computer within a mental institution.

One of the things that made grouping difficult in FF11 was the ridiculous amount of classes and rigid group requirements. Back when I played, you had a hand full of essential and rare classes, and about several times more throwaway classes that could only DPS - some clearly better than others (lawl dragoon, thief) If developers loosened the requirements for forming a group in certain situations - they'd be able to promote a lot more group play. IE : Maybe it shouldn't be ALWAYS necessary to have a dedicated healer to do group content.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on October 24, 2009, 11:06:02 AM
One of the things that made grouping difficult in FF11 was the ridiculous amount of classes and rigid group requirements. Back when I played, you had a hand full of essential and rare classes, and about several times more throwaway classes that could only DPS - some clearly better than others (lawl dragoon, thief) If developers loosened the requirements for forming a group in certain situations - they'd be able to promote a lot more group play. IE : Maybe it shouldn't be ALWAYS necessary to have a dedicated healer to do group content.

WoW overcame this problem by creating classes that could spec for both healing and non- or less healing roles.  I think that this is a start on the move away from the tired tank-healer-dps trio, but there's still a long way to go. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: 01101010 on October 24, 2009, 04:37:09 PM
WoW overcame this problem by creating classes that could spec for both healing and non- or less healing roles.  I think that this is a start on the move away from the tired tank-healer-dps trio, but there's still a long way to go. 

Yep... though I am more than a little curious as to how the leveling/skill up function will work in the next FF mmo.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nightblade on October 24, 2009, 04:56:30 PM
Quote
WoW overcame this problem by creating classes that could spec for both healing and non- or less healing roles.  I think that this is a start on the move away from the tired tank-healer-dps trio, but there's still a long way to go. 

I agree, that it's start and little else. You can still do some group quests (did WOTLK even have any of those? I stopped playing in the middle of Arena Season 3) with a casually put together group.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sheepherder on October 25, 2009, 03:54:50 AM
Yes, Wrath has group quests.  However, unlike previously they tend to not have prerequisite quests.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: fuser on October 29, 2009, 01:26:50 PM
Thanks to newsletter #48 now peddling the same content I'm unsubscribed from even the mailing list.

I'd usually read them to see whats going on in WAR but with the usage of it from August to peddle other games with no real changes I'm done.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Jamiko on October 29, 2009, 01:31:47 PM
This is kind of interesting: (http://www.warhammeronline.com/newsletterarchive/2009/October2009.html)

Quote
WAR Endless Free Trial

We’ll soon be lifting the 10-day restriction on our Free Trial! You'll be able to enjoy the trial experience and New User Journey for as long as you like!


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: 01101010 on October 29, 2009, 01:37:58 PM
This is kind of interesting: (http://www.warhammeronline.com/newsletterarchive/2009/October2009.html)

Quote
WAR Endless Free Trial

We’ll soon be lifting the 10-day restriction on our Free Trial! You'll be able to enjoy the trial experience and New User Journey for as long as you like!


Day of the Rope!


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soln on October 29, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
Well, they do worse than go F2P like DDO and survive.  DDO is huge atm AFAIK from just playing it a few times.  F2P with MTs could help.  Oh wait, it's pseudo-unbalanced-PvP so no. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: tazelbain on October 29, 2009, 02:37:26 PM
Going Free with Store would be one of the few things they could do to get me take a second look.  But CoH is the one I really want to go FwS.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 30, 2009, 02:40:56 AM
This is kind of interesting: (http://www.warhammeronline.com/newsletterarchive/2009/October2009.html)

Quote
WAR Endless Free Trial

We’ll soon be lifting the 10-day restriction on our Free Trial! You'll be able to enjoy the trial experience and New User Journey for as long as you like!


Andy confirmed this on the vnboards.  It's going to be interesting to see how they cap the trial accounts.

T1 limited (no point really, normal trial would have people leaving T1)

T2 limited (see the best parts of the game for free, then pay for the bad parts?)  I think this is most likely but T3 scenarios are going to seem awful quiet, immediately after you parted with your credit card information.

Edit typo


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: 01101010 on October 30, 2009, 02:51:39 AM
This is kind of interesting: (http://www.warhammeronline.com/newsletterarchive/2009/October2009.html)

Quote
WAR Endless Free Trial

We’ll soon be lifting the 10-day restriction on our Free Trial! You'll be able to enjoy the trial experience and New User Journey for as long as you like!


Andy confirmed this on the vnboards.  It's going to be interesting to see how they cap the trial accounts.

T1 limited (no point really, normal trial would have people leaving T1)

T2 limited (see the best parts of the game for free, then pay for the bad parts?)  I think this is most likely but T3 scenarios are going to see awful quiet, immediately after you parted with your credit card information.

Toll booths to get into different zones after T1. I could see it...straight outta Blazing Saddles.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Ingmar on October 30, 2009, 11:24:00 AM
The free trial is already T1 limited so I expect that is where it will stay.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: 01101010 on October 30, 2009, 12:19:05 PM
The free trial is already T1 limited so I expect that is where it will stay.

Well hell, free game from 1-11 and then you are stuck at cap? for free? Ok, I am now half interested...  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on October 30, 2009, 12:23:21 PM
You'd never level out of the low level battlegrounds.  Or can you go past level 11, you just can't access T2?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on October 30, 2009, 12:39:01 PM
Next step is total FTP or shut down, I would think. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soulflame on October 30, 2009, 12:41:46 PM
Wait, they're offering the best part of the game, for free?!

I can see a few people re-upping, for free, just to roll through 1-11 over and over again.  I'd at least consider it, rather than dismissing it out of hand.  Even better if you cap at 11 and can't advance.  OH THE HUMANITY.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on October 30, 2009, 12:44:54 PM
I think folks have been asking for /exp off for a long time to allow them to stop at 11.  This is pretty much that, for free. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Ingmar on October 30, 2009, 01:44:58 PM
Wait, they're offering the best part of the game, for free?!

I can see a few people re-upping, for free, just to roll through 1-11 over and over again.  I'd at least consider it, rather than dismissing it out of hand.  Even better if you cap at 11 and can't advance.  OH THE HUMANITY.   :awesome_for_real:

I am seriously considering it. T1 is by far the best part of the game.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Ashamanchill on October 30, 2009, 01:52:38 PM
I'm with ya. I may use this oppurtunity to roll a Knight of the Blazing Sun. I wanted to roll one at release, but that got canned.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: 01101010 on October 30, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
Why are my "it's a trap!" senses tingling...


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soulflame on October 30, 2009, 03:00:53 PM
Just remember the shine starts coming off in tier 2, and that it's completely gone by tier 3.  You should be fine!


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Andy_Mythic on October 30, 2009, 04:24:24 PM
Realistically, we're not blind to the fact that a rather large portion of our departed community liked, nay loved, the Tier 1 experience. So yeah, we're giving away what that portion of former players may consider the "best part of the game", but you know what? So what? That means that our new and existing players can have a better Tier 1 experience while we do everything in our power to improve Tiers 2, 3 and especially 4.

We're doing whatever it takes to improve our conversion ratio of new trials to subs...just like any other existing post launch MMO does.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 30, 2009, 05:24:43 PM
If the unlimited trial is restricted to T1, then the only benefit is increased population at tier 1.  I'd have thought at this point you would be trying more drastic measures like making destruction free to play till RR40, maybe super rare loot drops on cities/keeps allowing +1 RR increase over 40.  Then you wouldn't have to worry about balance and you could just say Order is meant to be overpowered, they actually pay.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Morfiend on October 30, 2009, 05:31:44 PM
One thing that I'm sure has come up, but its the first thing that comes to my mind. This will lead to a whole slew of people capped at level 11, with the best gear possible. Its totally going to twink out T1, and probably make T1 no fun for people whom are leveling up and plan to leave t1.

Honestly, if I was a paying customer, I would be pissed. I think the only way to bypass this is to let demo players actually level to 12, but not enter t2.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Andy_Mythic on October 30, 2009, 05:35:59 PM
If the unlimited trial is restricted to T1, then the only benefit is increased population at tier 1.  I'd have thought at this point you would be trying more drastic measures like making destruction free to play till RR40, maybe super rare loot drops on cities/keeps allowing +1 RR increase over 40.  Then you wouldn't have to worry about balance and you could just say Order is meant to be overpowered, they actually pay.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the benefit.

Also, why on earth would we make Destruction FTP? I'm assuming you do not know the current state of the servers.

As with any faction based MMO, the balance of power swings like a pendulum.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Andy_Mythic on October 30, 2009, 05:39:27 PM
One thing that I'm sure has come up, but its the first thing that comes to my mind. This will lead to a whole slew of people capped at level 11, with the best gear possible. Its totally going to twink out T1, and probably make T1 no fun for people whom are leveling up and plan to leave t1.

Honestly, if I was a paying customer, I would be pissed. I think the only way to bypass this is to let demo players actually level to 12, but not enter t2.

The disparity between those who are "twinked" and those who are not is minimal. I went over the numbers (with the design team) and the actual effect of being at the maximum possible gear (all BiS for lvl 10) and the difference is not enough to make one sit up and be overly concerned. This is further assisted by the fact that there is a softcap that kicks in to enforce what is some pretty steep diminishing returns. Also, we raised the bolster to 10 rather than 8 to further reduce the disparity between Rank 1's and Rank 10's.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 31, 2009, 06:21:23 AM
If the unlimited trial is restricted to T1, then the only benefit is increased population at tier 1.  I'd have thought at this point you would be trying more drastic measures like making destruction free to play till RR40, maybe super rare loot drops on cities/keeps allowing +1 RR increase over 40.  Then you wouldn't have to worry about balance and you could just say Order is meant to be overpowered, they actually pay.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the benefit.

Also, why on earth would we make Destruction FTP? I'm assuming you do not know the current state of the servers.

As with any faction based MMO, the balance of power swings like a pendulum.

I thought the vast majority of the servers had been closed, I'm not saying making destruction FTP is a great idea, it's pretty out there, but time for great or even good ideas has long passed for WAR.  At the minute you guys are going to work on class balance while the game apparently (given the absolute silence on subscription numbers) slowly bleeds out.  I'd have thought balancing the two great loves of mmo players, free versus overpowered would at least shake things up a bit.  But it's not really a serious suggestion, previous ideas like making levelling faster or forcing scenarios to rotate so people aren't expected to spent hundreds of hours playing Serpent's Passage seem obvious and yet have been (mostly) completely ignored.  When does fear of making things worse, shift to "don't rock the boat"?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Setanta on October 31, 2009, 06:21:45 AM
I decided to go hve a second look (I'm an idiot ok  :oh_i_see: ). Darklands no longer existed so I transferred my toons to Volmar. Well, I tried to. One transfer stuffed up - confirmation that it had gone to Badlands even though I checked the confirmation carefully for it to go to Volkmar and verified it. So much for my L32 IB - I don't know anyone that plays order on Badlands. So my WH (24) gets to Volk ok. Wow - graphics are still crap and there is zero immersion in the game. Killing things feels like... ummm.... ummm... nothing. Barely any Order around, Destruction were rolling everywhere. Scenarios don't pop - well not in the hour I waited for one to pop before logging the hell off. PvE is still rubbish. Mobs re-setting after they flee etc. I didn't even bother with the new content - thank god checking it out is free.

I'm sorry - this game has not got better at all. It's junk and although the early game was a hell of a lot of fun in the day, it's dated worse than WoW or heck, even EQ. Rose coloured glasses I gues - but I really hadn't remembered how bad the game was. It needs to be left to die - the sooner the better.



Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Dragnet on October 31, 2009, 07:04:28 AM
with two factions, the game never will be have a chance


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Hayduke on October 31, 2009, 07:36:48 AM
The serpent's passage thing over and over was a bug in the queue.  Scs are really random nowadays (depending on zone control).  I always queue all, drop Grovod since it's the only one I don't like, and am pleasantly surprised at the diversity.

T4 is actually a good deal of fun for me in SCs.  That's more when 6-mans start.  What I don't like is T3.  LoTD makes things so much easier to level than at release but it's still not a lot of fun.  T3 is inactive.  T4, well you're worthless till you hit 40.  The only thing that pisses me off about T4 is the constant siege on Altdorf across all servers shuts down scs.  At that point I just play an alt.  I got a full set of invader in two runs through Altdorf and while I'm sure I'll do it again I don't want to every night, especially when the renown is awful and I can't get the last drop I want since I only seem to win gold bags instead of purples.

I think the unlimited T1 trial is great, even if it'll make it even easier for the opposite realm to monitor what you're doing.  I still think the game needs a severely truncated road to 40 for players who aren't in powerleveling guilds.

Also like DDO I think this is a game that could thrive on a la carte pricing as they are both games based on that price model in their original form.  Unfortunately I think that's a decision that should've been made at release, as it would've let the playerbase direct what content was created.  For such a system to be attractive to me I'd need a lot more available to pick and choose than there currently is.  Like new races, classes and goodies.  I think a better decision would be being more competitive with the monthly fee as Funcom is making gestures of doing.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kageru on October 31, 2009, 09:36:45 AM

One day of play was pretty much enough to cap a character, including doing some scenarios on the rare occasions they spawn. In terms of attracting new people I wonder if allowing them to taste the other tiers (eg. time limited but not T1 limited) wouldn't work better. I know for the group I tried with once we capped the characters interest in the trial evaporated. And there's not really much sense of RvR given you never see a keep.

Oh, and getting mugged by level 20 skaven in the human capital when you're capped at level 10 is sort of cruel.

That said, especially in Australian primetime, the population seems well below critical mass. Seeing PQ's asking for 6-9 players when there's fewer than that in the entire 1-10 zone. The guild I got bulk invited to had 20 people online and proudly said that it was 4x as much as the next largest.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Rasix on October 31, 2009, 10:10:45 AM
with two factions, the game never will be have a chance

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 31, 2009, 10:18:49 AM
The serpent's passage thing over and over was a bug in the queue.

Heh, you have a link for that?  I spent ages in that shitty scenario because of a bug?  :drillf:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Andy_Mythic on October 31, 2009, 11:08:32 AM
The serpent's passage thing over and over was a bug in the queue.

Heh, you have a link for that?  I spent ages in that shitty scenario because of a bug?  :drillf:

Yes, you did. It was a bug, and an unfortunate one at that. Ages is arguable (if I remember correctly we caught the bug within the first 90 days) and it wasn't something that was evident as most people were queuing for SP anyways since we didn't have the Queue Anywhere feature in game at the time. Remember standing around in the Warcamp for the Scen you wanted to queue for?



Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 31, 2009, 04:30:55 PM
"Ages is arguable", not to be a dick or anything as I'm really not that upset about wasting my time, I should have known better, but it's only really arguable if you don't consider the first 90 days as that important.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Setanta on October 31, 2009, 08:07:01 PM
This sums up my whole EA-Mythic/Warhammer Online experience:

I petitioned to get my Ironbreaker to Volkmar from Badlands after the transfer stuffed up:

Part of their response: "We are sorry, but unfortunately due to the sensitive nature of your request, you will need to contact our phone support team at 650-628-1001"

GF'd - I live in Australia! I am not going to pay the best part of two subscriptions in international phone calls to move the only toon that I got to T3 to a server that I can play with others on. You can take my credit card details over the internet but you can't deal with the movement of a toon from one server to another via the same email address I have had for 6 years? Dear Mythinc, here's a hint - I have NEVER had to contact Blizzard or CCP by phone to transfer characters that stay on the same account (or move to another owned by me for that matter). Professionalism and customer service go a long way.

Ok maybe I'm over-reacting but screw it, I CBF'd even though IB was the only character I really enjoyed playing.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Bismallah on October 31, 2009, 08:48:46 PM
I'm sorry - this game has not got better at all. It's junk and although the early game was a hell of a lot of fun in the day, it's dated worse than WoW or heck, even EQ. Rose coloured glasses I gues - but I really hadn't remembered how bad the game was. It needs to be left to die - the sooner the better.

I'd have to agree with this statement. All of my friends and acquaintances that used to play have quit. Not just quit, but freely and frequently bash the crap out of it at work (where we do talk about games a crap ton probably more than we should). I gave away my 40 WP to a friend from work and he was so bored he gave it to his g/f's brother who has since quit playing as well. (Currently consoles have me occupied, Badlands is a total blast)



Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Pagz on November 01, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
wait wait, do free trail accounts soft cap at level 11 or do you level your character out of T1 so you have to either re-roll or start a new char?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on November 02, 2009, 06:29:01 AM
Warhammer still has too many glaring issues.   Crafting is next to worthless and you cant profit from it.  On top of that money in the game is almost useless cause there is nothing to have to spend it on.  Its a horrible economic system in the game and serves little purpose.  Gear and token drops are also horrible(past Invader).  I retired at RR77 on my WH and I had 3 pieces of WL gear only(2 i purchased).  Dont even get me started on Soveriegn gear that apparently only GM's are allowed to wear.  Token drops are brutally bad which means upgrading gear is also brutal.  They still have a lot to learn with this game


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Montague on November 02, 2009, 09:16:35 AM
"Ages is arguable", not to be a dick or anything as I'm really not that upset about wasting my time, I should have known better, but it's only really arguable if you don't consider the first 90 days as that important.

Another example of Mythicland vs. market reality, and never the twain shall meet.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on November 02, 2009, 01:53:10 PM
There's also the whole thing about it being a "bug" offered as an excuse, that's actually worse than somebody deciding to let most of the T4 scenarios pop as SP.  By design you could say one person made a bad decision, a bug means absolutely everybody senior totally missed how the majority of T4 players were spending their time.  I should just let this go as WAR is in a world of hurt right now and I'm actually feeling guilty, but as they can't fix WAR they could at least learn from it.  16 minutes, that how long it took most people playing T4 scenarios to notice SP as an issue, right when two popped in a row.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Andy_Mythic on November 02, 2009, 02:29:12 PM
There's also the whole thing about it being a "bug" offered as an excuse, that's actually worse than somebody deciding to let most of the T4 scenarios pop as SP.  By design you could say one person made a bad decision, a bug means absolutely everybody senior totally missed how the majority of T4 players were spending their time.  I should just let this go as WAR is in a world of hurt right now and I'm actually feeling guilty, but as they can't fix WAR they could at least learn from it.  16 minutes, that how long it took most people playing T4 scenarios to notice SP as an issue, right when two popped in a row.

I'm not exactly sure where I offered it up as an "excuse" but rather as a reason it happened. Maybe in so much as the bug was part of the reason for your experience, yes, but in a "Oh there's Mythic making excuses again" I'm not sure I follow.

Yes, we made mistakes, and anyone who can see beyond the hype will recognize that we have owned up to our missteps and are working our collective asses off to correct them.

Or you can keep making jokes about Paul...  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on November 02, 2009, 03:25:45 PM
I'm not exactly sure where I offered it up as an "excuse" but rather as a reason it happened. Maybe in so much as the bug was part of the reason for your experience, yes, but in a "Oh there's Mythic making excuses again" I'm not sure I follow.

Bugs are used as excuses, I do it all the time, but my major screw ups aren't that interesting. so that's the way I read it.  The bug isn't the reason so many people ended up stuck for so long in SP, Mythic is, everyone at the time thought the players figured SP was the best reward for time investment and so were doing it themselves.  Ironically partly because you guys made levelling such a chore.

So if it's a bug you fix the bug and the problem goes away but if it's player choice then even though exactly the same thing could be happening, it's ok?  That's just my opinion on why it took 90 days.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Andy_Mythic on November 02, 2009, 04:38:20 PM
Bugs are used as excuses, I do it all the time, but my major screw ups aren't that interesting. so that's the way I read it.  The bug isn't the reason so many people ended up stuck for so long in SP, Mythic is, everyone at the time thought the players figured SP was the best reward for time investment and so were doing it themselves.  Ironically partly because you guys made levelling such a chore.

So if it's a bug you fix the bug and the problem goes away but if it's player choice then even though exactly the same thing could be happening, it's ok?  That's just my opinion on why it took 90 days.

TBF, it was a combination of player patterns and habits that exacerbated the bug (incoming OMG MYSTIC BLAMES THE PLAYER) and made it more difficult to nail it down. At the time, players all stood around in Dragonwake queuing for SP over and over and over...you get the drift. So the question remains, was one issue symptomatic of the other? Yeah, most definitely. There is no proverbial chicken or egg situation here. The bug came first which lead to player behavior adapting to said bug and only worsening the situation. Not offering justification for the situation (it sucked, I was right there experiencing it with everyone else and yes, I got sick of SP as well) but hopefully some insight into why it took awhile to nail down on our part.

I'm rather surprised you're still picking at a leveling speed which is often considered a very fast curve by modern MMO standards, not withstanding linked WoW accounts. Yeah it was slow to start with, but we reacted to that pretty quickly. There are so many other attractive horses for you to beat on about WAR which have since been addressed.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on November 02, 2009, 04:51:11 PM
I'm rather surprised you're still picking at a leveling speed which is often considered a very fast curve by modern MMO standards, not withstanding linked WoW accounts. Yeah it was slow to start with, but we reacted to that pretty quickly. There are so many other attractive horses for you to beat on about WAR which have since been addressed.

1) It's supposed to be a pvp game.  Any leveling grind is going to be bitched about especially when ...

2) Most of the levels are meaningless anyway.  If you get boosted to level 8 in the first tier that immediately tells me that levels 1-7 are meaningless.  The same could be said for tiers 2 and 3.  This renders most of your levels to be nothing more than worthless cockblocks to any pvp enthusiast.  

By my 5th year in DAoC I could get to level 50 and geared in less than 1 day played solo and I could argue that even that was too slow.  People want(ed) to play WAR for the pvp.  Anything keeping them from doing that was deemed an annoyance.  This is especially true if you spend even a minute attempting the horrible pve instead of grinding xp by doing BG's and the lakes.   As the populations dwindle, the leveling curve will feel even worse.  

What shall we discuss next?  The horrible implementation of AE?  The excess of CC?  The ability to rapidly attain RR80 by avoiding any real pvp?  Class balance issues?  Itemization?  Class specific failures? 

I was a huge Mythic/DAoC fan when WAR came out and I had a hard time lasting a month.  My second attempt at playing a couple of months ago lasted a few days... and I had a tight group of close friends to play with. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: BoatApe on November 02, 2009, 10:56:58 PM
My main was a shaman...

I spent an age & 1/2 in Beta and had high hopes...

Nebu summed up the salient points.

Before I cross the line into starfucking I'll back away slowly.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on November 03, 2009, 05:59:06 AM
One of the biggest issues for people I played with up to Sept of this year was a lack of scenarios.  We were on Gorfang, a busy server and you can play all day and get 0 scenarios until about 2pm when one might finally pop.  Then they would be intermittent until about 8pm when they might speed up some but still pop horribly most of the time.  Put in cross server scenarios so scenarios pop at a better rate.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on November 03, 2009, 06:11:18 AM
(incoming OMG MYSTIC BLAMES THE PLAYER)

This never ceases to be hilarious.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on November 03, 2009, 08:08:31 AM
TBF, it was a combination of player patterns and habits that exacerbated the bug (incoming OMG MYSTIC BLAMES THE PLAYER) and made it more difficult to nail it down. At the time, players all stood around in Dragonwake queuing for SP over and over and over...you get the drift. So the question remains, was one issue symptomatic of the other? Yeah, most definitely. There is no proverbial chicken or egg situation here. The bug came first which lead to player behavior adapting to said bug and only worsening the situation. Not offering justification for the situation (it sucked, I was right there experiencing it with everyone else and yes, I got sick of SP as well) but hopefully some insight into why it took awhile to nail down on our part.

I'm rather surprised you're still picking at a leveling speed which is often considered a very fast curve by modern MMO standards, not withstanding linked WoW accounts. Yeah it was slow to start with, but we reacted to that pretty quickly. There are so many other attractive horses for you to beat on about WAR which have since been addressed.

Player behaviour is predictable, if you give them the choice a lot of players will pick one scenario over the others, believing it rewards them better, even when they might personally find the other scenarios more enjoyable.  You mentioned this queueing in the warcamp thing twice now, from your point of view I guess allowing players to queue for a scenario from anywhere is a good change, from a player point of view, you just fixed the system to stop being really stupid.  Maybe it's not fair but you just don't get much good will from that.

Shatter already said it but I'll say it again, there should have been cross server scenarios in from the start.   On the main SP derail, instead of a system that allows players to control which scenario pops, there should have been a system which allowed them to avoid the one or two they personally didn't like.  A single quest for completing x number of different scenarios (x being the number of scenarios minus 1 or 2 for personal dislikes) that rewarded enough exp/rr to overcome the perceived advantage of pure SP scenarios would have avoided the whole issue (except for population issues ~ cross server scenarios).  But again, the whole scenario system was flawed (sounds like it still is) the presence or absence of a bug just changed how Mythic viewed the system.

As for "Mythic blames the players", you guys made the game, ultimately everything that goes on in game is your fault, nobody said playing God was easy.  If you invent a system that allows players to influence which scenarios pop for other players, that's no less crazy than allowing players to influence which loot items drop for other players, even if you do later discover a bug in said system.  I mentioned leveling speed because of scenarios, also if the message got through about that I didn't see any big change in Mythic's stance on it, if it is a lot faster to level now and that's a good thing for the game, why aren't you guys shouting it from the rooftops?  Love this comment "very fast curve by modern MMO standards", correct me if I'm wrong but aren't modern mmo standards mostly shit, so that's why so many people try out new games?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: tazelbain on November 03, 2009, 08:45:40 AM
Not balancing the scenarios by reward was a huge mistake.  Surely they had the xp/rp per hour data to make every T3 scenario as rewarding as Tor Anoc.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on November 03, 2009, 09:38:11 AM
For me to return to Warhammer would take a number of things to be fixed beyond those mentioned already. 

1)  Crafting, every crafting prof makes no money or horrbile money compared to the time investment. Many people like Crafting and there is little point to it in Warhammer.  You made Talismans permanent so people never have to replace them.  Most people dont even bother taking food since you cant make money in the game.  Gathering professions cant sell their wears to the crafters because crafters dont want it since they cant make money, its an ugly circle.  You destroyed crafting in your own game. 
2)  Money, why do you need money in the game?  There is virtually nothing to buy and no need for people to work towards actualy making money, not that you can since you broke crafting anyways.   
3)  Soveriegn gear - Id like to see stats on how many players have even 1 piece, nevermind a set.  You have this best gear in the game that is virtually impossible to attain.  Invader crests and beyond are RARE drops in the game and made even worse when you compete for them with a WB of 23 other people.  In the 11 months I played the game I got 4 Warlord crests...4.  You need 14 for one piece of WL gear.  Do the math here.  Obtaining gear in the game is still ridiculous to the point of stupid. 
4) End game - well since you broke crafting, I cant make money and even if I made money I have nothing to spend it on.  I cant obtain Soverign gear unless I get hired as a GM, so why do you expect people to play past 40?  Oh yeah, Reknown ranks.  Well I got to 77 and that was enough of a grind since scenarios dont pop hardly ever and getting RR through RvR is about as much fun as slamming my dick in a car door. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: HaemishM on November 03, 2009, 10:12:15 AM
TBF, it was a combination of player patterns and habits that exacerbated the bug (incoming OMG MYSTIC BLAMES THE PLAYER) and made it more difficult to nail it down. At the time, players all stood around in Dragonwake queuing for SP over and over and over...you get the drift. So the question remains, was one issue symptomatic of the other? Yeah, most definitely. There is no proverbial chicken or egg situation here.

No. Yes, there may have been a bug there, but the problem with scenarios which really exacerbated the situation all up and down the line was that there was 1 scenario in each tier that so greatly outranked the others in terms of reward that everyone queued for it. That was a design issue, exacerbated by a bug which was also exacerbated by the player's tendency to take the most reward for the least effort.

Quote
Yeah it was slow to start with, but we reacted to that pretty quickly.

No, you most certainly fucking didn't react to it quickly. You spent months hemming and hawing and offering 10% increases on the 3rd Sunday of every full moon.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Morfiend on November 03, 2009, 12:19:43 PM
For me to return to Warhammer would take a number of things to be fixed beyond those mentioned already. 

For me it would be:

1) Drastically, and I mean drastically increase leveling speed. Maybe Shadowbane leveling speed. We should be able to get to Rank 40 in a few weeks of normal play or a week of hardcore.
2) Put all the dev time in to end game stuff. Make a bunch more end game gear also.
3) Dont make the RVR rewards so painful and grindy to get.

Basically shift the focus of the game from the journey to the destination. Its supposed to be an RVR/PVP game. Getting RR ranks is still not cake so its not like people wont have a carrot at R40. By adding a bunch more gear to the end game, you let people max out easily, but they can still progress their characters via the RR and new gear ala WoW.

Honestly, it seems like a lot of WARs problems stem from the design decision to shift from the original 4 tier leveling system to the level based tier system. If you have tiers, the lower players are always going to be fodder. So why bother. I cant see that changing now anyway, so just let the players get to the end game where levels dont matter.



Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kail on November 03, 2009, 03:40:27 PM
2) Most of the levels are meaningless anyway.  If you get boosted to level 8 in the first tier that immediately tells me that levels 1-7 are meaningless.  The same could be said for tiers 2 and 3.  This renders most of your levels to be nothing more than worthless cockblocks to any pvp enthusiast.  

By my 5th year in DAoC I could get to level 50 and geared in less than 1 day played solo and I could argue that even that was too slow.  People want(ed) to play WAR for the pvp.

I dunno if I agree with that...

I have no problem leveling in a game.  I like having little dings every few minutes.  What I have a problem with is when I have to level to be competitive, I.E. when I can get one-shotted by someone ten levels higher than me.  Warhammer largely fixes this problem; my level 12 might not be able to solo a level 21, but I still pose a reasonable threat to him, unlike in something like WoW or Aion.  Meanwhile, my level 21 can roll around with a fairly respectable level of power for a while before getting dumped back down to newb status in T3.  Since I generally find the "endgame" less fun than the mid-game, I have no problem with spending eight or ten hours getting dings in tier 2 or whatever.

I mean, yeah, people wanted to play WAR for the PvP.  But WAR is the only game I can think of where you can (or could, when the servers were more populated) PvP from start to end, so complaining about having to wait until level cap to PvP seems strange to me.  If you didn't like leveling, I don't see why you think you'd like the endgame, since it's basically the same thing, just with bigger zergs.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on November 03, 2009, 03:49:13 PM
The problem is that when you have a largely unenjoyable game you don't need more blockages to running through the material, e.g. crappy scenario queues, crappy scenarios, dead zones, slow leveling, etc.  Having to grind out hundreds of quests in a PvP game to level up is pretty lame.  Of course, the clear issue is that they tried to be everything for everyone, and you always fail when you do that.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on November 03, 2009, 05:51:20 PM
I dunno if I agree with that...

I understand what you're getting at, but think about it for a minute.  If each scenario boosts you to a level that is cap - 3, the why does the game make players grind through all the other levels for that tier?  In tier 1, levels 1-7 serve almost no purpose beyond slowing you down and limiting your effectiveness (in terms of gating your ability gains).  It's the same for the early levels in tiers 2 and 3... and even 4.  If you want players to PvP from the start, why not just have 4 levels per tier (ie. 8,9,10,11 for tier 1) from the start?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on November 04, 2009, 05:14:23 AM
I agree with Morfiend.  After I played Warhammer for 1 year and high reknown rank it needs A LOT more end game love.  I also agree that leveling should be made very easy to get to 40.  Heck, I had 0 alts because I couldnt be bothered to level a new character through that again.  Right now you CANT level via pvp cause there arent enough scenarios popping to do that anyhow, you have to level via PvE and that sucks if you came to a game for the purpose of PvP.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on November 04, 2009, 08:23:47 AM
After about Tier 1, maybe halfway through Tier 2, It sucks if you came to game for PvE, too...


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Feverdream on November 04, 2009, 09:08:06 AM
I'm not sure how 'fast leveling speed' is defined by Mythic these days.  If you want to level in PvP, it's not fast because scenarios don't reliably pop outside of T1 on most servers.

I can't believe I'm even posting in this damned forum again, anyway.  I guess I keep holding on to the hope that Mythic will find the courage and creativity to do what really needs to be done with the game rather than treat it like a stable and successful MMO that only requires smaller, slower, more incremental changes.

I swear, even Blizzard is more fearless about making big changes (their success gives them a lot of room to take the 'incremental' route) than Mythic...and Mythic is the one that really needs to step up and take advantage of a critical situation to implement some sweeping changes.  Probably the resources just aren't there to do that anymore, though, so we'll continue to watch this godawful death-by-inches of a game that should have been spectacular.

As a bit of an aside, even though player behavior can most certainly be included in any assessment of what's going wrong in a game, I just feel that Mythic burned their bridges long ago in terms of being able to publicly place blame on players.  They did it too often in instances where it simply wasn't true, so now any attempt to do so just makes them look petty.  I don't think they ARE petty, but really, they need to stay away from anything that sounds like 'oh, a lot of it is because of the players' for maybe the next ten years or so =P.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sir T on November 04, 2009, 11:50:29 AM
My impression of it was very positive over tier 1. I loved the scenario idea. Combat was fast and furious,playing a high elf mage was fun and interesting. But when I hit tier 2 there was nobody there, and I never logged in again...

Frankly if you really want to push people together ditch Ulthan and that grenskin/ dwarf area. Splitting your players into 3 areas was always going to be bad as people will gravitate to one area anyway to find people. That was empire. If you want top be bold then thats the way to go, in my opinion


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: IainC on November 04, 2009, 11:54:22 AM
My impression of it was very positive over tier 1. I loved the scenario idea. Combat was fast and furious,playing a high elf mage was fun and interesting. But when I hit tier 2 there was nobody there, and I never logged in again...

Frankly if you really want to push people together ditch Ulthan and that grenskin/ dwarf area. Splitting your players into 3 areas was always going to be bad as people will gravitate to one area anyway to find people. That was empire. If you want top be bold then thats the way to go, in my opinion

I see you've read the patch notes thoroughly.

Quote from: 1.3.2 Patch Notes
* Starting Area Relocation: As part of the New User Journey, all new characters will now start in either Nordland or Norsca, based on their Realm affiliation. This emphasis will bring a variety of races into the same starting areas, giving Tier 1 a boost to population that will help ensure a fulfilling experience for all players. Trial users will only be able to access the Empire vs. Chaos starter areas, but subscribers will be able to visit the other Tier 1 pairings if they desire by visiting a Flight Master.
* Open Realm vs. Realm Combat (Tier 1): As part of the starting-area consolidation, the only active RVR lake will be in Nordland. This will focus the Open RvR portion of Tier 1 and help ensure explosive battles over the Battlefield Objectives. As part of this emphasis, we've eliminated the Lagoon Battlefield Objective to ensure that all of the Open RvR objectives are in the same lake and easily visible and accessible to all players.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sir T on November 04, 2009, 12:00:31 PM
I see you've read the patch notes thoroughly.

I haven't read the patch notes at all


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on November 04, 2009, 02:28:13 PM
Heck, I had 0 alts because I couldnt be bothered to level a new character through that again.

I don't understand the resistance to faster leveling. WAR has 24 different character classes split over unique 6 races, is it reasonable to expect players to pick the 1 class that suits their personal playstyle best out of a possible 24, on their first attempt, while their knowledge of the game is at it's very weakest?  Because that's the result of a slow leveling grind, it's easier to quit and move on rather than consider playing a 2nd, 3rd or 4th character to high level.

I'm convinced it would be fairly easy to get Mythic to publicly support in game sex changes, but faster leveling speed?  No way, that's just something they don't want to talk about.  It seems to have been far more important to copy the WoW Auction house (minus a working economy) rather than consider why all those WoW players have so many many alts.  How many subscribed WoW players are still using their first character as their main?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on November 05, 2009, 04:40:26 AM
My impression of it was very positive over tier 1. I loved the scenario idea. Combat was fast and furious,playing a high elf mage was fun and interesting. But when I hit tier 2 there was nobody there, and I never logged in again...

Frankly if you really want to push people together ditch Ulthan and that grenskin/ dwarf area. Splitting your players into 3 areas was always going to be bad as people will gravitate to one area anyway to find people. That was empire. If you want top be bold then thats the way to go, in my opinion

I see you've read the patch notes thoroughly.

Quote from: 1.3.2 Patch Notes
* Starting Area Relocation: As part of the New User Journey, all new characters will now start in either Nordland or Norsca, based on their Realm affiliation. This emphasis will bring a variety of races into the same starting areas, giving Tier 1 a boost to population that will help ensure a fulfilling experience for all players. Trial users will only be able to access the Empire vs. Chaos starter areas, but subscribers will be able to visit the other Tier 1 pairings if they desire by visiting a Flight Master.
* Open Realm vs. Realm Combat (Tier 1): As part of the starting-area consolidation, the only active RVR lake will be in Nordland. This will focus the Open RvR portion of Tier 1 and help ensure explosive battles over the Battlefield Objectives. As part of this emphasis, we've eliminated the Lagoon Battlefield Objective to ensure that all of the Open RvR objectives are in the same lake and easily visible and accessible to all players.

See this is why Mythic fails.  You think jamming everyone into 1 Pairing fixes the issues?  You think scenarios will pop all day every day by doing this?  Nope, I GUARANTEE you they wont.  Is RvR a good way to level via PvP?  Again...nope its not.  Dev stupidity like this reminds me why I quit and wont go back


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: BitWarrior on November 05, 2009, 10:41:52 AM
See this is why Mythic fails.  You think jamming everyone into 1 Pairing fixes the issues?  You think scenarios will pop all day every day by doing this?  Nope, I GUARANTEE you they wont.  Is RvR a good way to level via PvP?  Again...nope its not.  Dev stupidity like this reminds me why I quit and wont go back

:facepalm:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Kageru on November 06, 2009, 07:45:41 PM

At this point in time "going back to warhammer" is fairly irrelevant. The game is so population dependent and that active population below critical mass. It's mostly inteteresting as an academic study in how they got there and what games should do to avoid the same.

I'm fairly sure they're not doing an iterative development approach through lack of courage or perceived need but more because people in nice suits are asking them to justify spending more money on development.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Velorath on November 09, 2009, 11:46:16 AM

At this point in time "going back to warhammer" is fairly irrelevant.

At least they made the best part of the game (the first 10 levels) free (http://news.ea.com/portal/site/ea/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091106005173&newsLang=en).


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: raydeen on November 19, 2009, 10:51:18 AM

At this point in time "going back to warhammer" is fairly irrelevant.

At least they made the best part of the game (the first 10 levels) free (http://news.ea.com/portal/site/ea/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091106005173&newsLang=en).

I would love to see them get several million players in the free trial only. What other MMO has only 10 levels to level cap! Heck, just jump into a few Nordenwatches (because we all know that's just about the only scenario that ever popped) and you'll be at the top level in under an hour!!  :drill:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 27, 2010, 04:11:32 PM
If the unlimited trial is restricted to T1, then the only benefit is increased population at tier 1.  I'd have thought at this point you would be trying more drastic measures like making destruction free to play till RR40, maybe super rare loot drops on cities/keeps allowing +1 RR increase over 40.  Then you wouldn't have to worry about balance and you could just say Order is meant to be overpowered, they actually pay.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the benefit.

Also, why on earth would we make Destruction FTP? I'm assuming you do not know the current state of the servers.

As with any faction based MMO, the balance of power swings like a pendulum.

Old quote but still, WAR was the first thing I thought of when I read the below.

http://www.turbine.com/news/5-press/93-dungeons-a-dragons-onliner-eberron-unlimited-surpasses-one-million-new-players.html

Quote
WESTWOOD, MA – February 26, 2010 –Turbine, Inc. announced today that Dungeons & Dragons Online®: Eberron Unlimited™ (DDO Unlimited), the world’s best free-to-play massively multiplayer online role playing game (MMORPG) has already attracted over one million new players since its September 2009 launch.  The massive influx of new players has been across all of the various consumer plans available.  DDO Unlimited’s paid subscriber base has more than doubled, while at the same time players are transacting in the new DDO store at three times the industry average, growing the franchise’s revenue over 500% since its launch in September.

Before reading that I would have guessed that DDO was in an even worse state than WAR.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sir T on February 27, 2010, 04:59:10 PM
Yeah, DDOs FTP model has really paid off for them. I have some friends that play it and really enjoy it.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on February 28, 2010, 10:23:23 AM
I'd like to see this model used more in MMO's as it supports games that are well-crafted but underappreciated.  First, attract a fan base using F2P.  Second, offer them a catalog of boutique services for reasonable cost.  Third, offer a subscription plan as a value to those that find the game worth investing in. 

If MMO's are going to charge a subscription fee they had better first demonstrate that their free core gameplay is worth paying for.  If consumers find value in that, they will gladly plop down cash for additional services.  This seems a far better way to go than to extort money up front for a barely finished, broken piece of gaming. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Sir T on February 28, 2010, 01:40:16 PM
I suspect the reason that MMOs are cagey about doing that is because its inherently risky. With a sub you can tell the board "We have X amount of subscribers, so we  are making $Y. If we increase our subs in the next quarter by A% our revenue increases by $B." That's easy to project with, easy to make budgets for. With FTP you are accepting that a large part of your player base will never pay you a dime. A significant majority that do will will only do so sporadicly, and only a very small amount will pay you constantly every month. So you could be rolling one month and completely dry the next.

In short you are giving up certainty and good easy accounting, for hope and accounts based effectively on Madam Zha's Tarot readings.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: KallDrexx on March 01, 2010, 05:23:40 AM
DDO works as a FTP game because it was designed for that type of gameplay (it was essentially a pve only Guild Wars with better PvE).  DDO is well setup for micro-transactions and paying for additional content which is why it works so well. I know many people stopped playing for it because they didn't feel it worked well as a subscription game nor that it was worth paying every month (even though some of them are paying more now that it's FTP, it's all about the mentality).

Warhammer is the opposite.  It was designed through and through to be a subscription game, and it won't be easy to segregate things into a micro-trans way. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on March 02, 2010, 09:46:17 AM
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1035

Producers letter on things to come which I have to say nothing in this letter jumps out at me as "that would make me sub again".  If this is the bulk of what they are working on over the next year then Id say WAR will still be a meh game for at least the rest of 2010.   


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on March 02, 2010, 10:55:39 AM
DDO works as a FTP game because it was designed for that type of gameplay (it was essentially a pve only Guild Wars with better PvE).  DDO is well setup for micro-transactions and paying for additional content which is why it works so well. I know many people stopped playing for it because they didn't feel it worked well as a subscription game nor that it was worth paying every month (even though some of them are paying more now that it's FTP, it's all about the mentality).

Warhammer is the opposite.  It was designed through and through to be a subscription game, and it won't be easy to segregate things into a micro-trans way. 

It's worth remembering that DDO was released with too little content (<150 quests) and you could argue that WAR was released with too much, or at least too much of the wrong sort (PVE).  So yes, I'd agree it's easier to add content to DDO and charge for it, but a large part of that is because nobody is really crying out for more WAR content.  What really affects your fun as a player in WAR is the presence of other players, while instance grouping requirements in DDO are far lower than WAR.  If EA want to keep WAR running they need to increase the population, FTP for a lot more than just T1 would do that, the problem of how they later suck money out of the players can only be really seriously considered if they decide to save the game.

Producers letter

Quote
our first 6v6 Scenario

 :rimshot:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: veredus on March 02, 2010, 03:16:31 PM
Been messing around on a trial account and actually the 6v6 Ironclad scenario is pretty fun. At least in T1 anyway.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Modern Angel on March 02, 2010, 07:11:52 PM
I downloaded a free trial account to check it out. I got my shit pushed in by nothing but level 11s in the scenarios. Which is to be expected, it being a big twink machine now, so I wasn't awfully upset. The game looks better, runs way better. I didn't see how to access the Ironclad scenario, though.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Pagz on March 03, 2010, 02:43:23 AM
Quote from: Mythic
One of the most anticipated features of Patch 1.3.4 was the introduction of new RvR weapons. Over the course of testing, concerns were voiced by members of the community regarding the costs of the weapons ... We're now pleased to announce that after a great deal of analysis, discussion, and feedback, we've just reduced the costs of many of the RvR weapons

Two hours later

Quote from: Mythic
Due to issues with higher tiers of RvR Weapon currency entering the world in an unintended manner we have temporarily disabled the RvR Weapon Quartermasters in the Capital Cities.

Three hours later

Quote from: Mythic
# Fixed an issue where new RvR Trophy items were selling for an improper amount.
# Due to the above issue higher Tier RvR currency was entering the world at an unintended rate. As a result we have removed all illegitimately gained RvR currency. As a result of the fix implemented to address illegitimately earned currency, all players have had the corresponding Tome unlocks removed. If you are amongst the players who legitimately earned a Tome unlock allowing you to earn higher Tiers of RvR currency prior to this issue, we will be implementing a solution allowing you to repurchase the unlock using the weapon you previously purchased. This solution is not yet implemented, so please do not destroy any weapons previously purchased. If you had already destroyed the weapon, please submit an appeal using the in game support tool and it will be investigated by Customer Service.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Soulflame on March 03, 2010, 08:15:34 AM
Mythic truly is their own worst enemy.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on March 03, 2010, 08:40:27 AM
Ho.......  Lee.....  Crap that's funny. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Nebu on March 03, 2010, 08:41:52 AM
Quote
We released a poorly thought out system before we could adequately test it.  Now you get to be penalized for our lack of forethought. 

How is this any different from most MMO's, exactly? 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Rasix on March 03, 2010, 08:46:49 AM
Just sad.  Mythic's failures are just starting to add up to "we're bad at this MMO stuff". 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on March 03, 2010, 08:54:10 AM
Even though Cryptic's products aren't great, they seem to work reasonably well for the most part.  Same for Eve, Fallen Earth and a number of other MMOs.  They often aren't for me, but they aren't as godawful fucked up as Warhammer is/was.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: BitWarrior on March 03, 2010, 08:58:59 AM
Just sad.  Mythic's failures are just starting to add up to "we're bad at this MMO stuff". 

Well, to be fair this is Mythic's first MMO, they have a lot of stuff to learn. To contrast, WoW is Blizzard's second MMO, so they've had time to learn from their previous mistakes.

Oh, wait...


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Rasix on March 03, 2010, 09:10:16 AM
I nearly spit coffee all over my keyboard. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: KallDrexx on March 03, 2010, 09:31:34 AM
shit this isn't even Mythic's second MMO, depending on if you count some of the old online games they had (i.e. Magestorm and Darkness Falls, the crusade)


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on March 03, 2010, 10:24:50 AM
Some of these companies do get it together, just far too late.  AOC and EQ2 would be good examples of if they launched today in the current state they would be a far more successful game most likely(outdated graphics aside for EQ2).  Mythic on the other hand doesnt seem to be able to get their heads out of their buttholes and in the 1.5 years the game has been out still dont seem to know what to do with WAR.  Again, looking at that producers letter of whats to come nothing there IMO would make me consider resubbing and they are still in fact "fixing", and I use that term loosely.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: HaemishM on March 03, 2010, 10:49:20 AM
I give this patch...

Three stars.  :rimshot:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Morfiend on March 03, 2010, 11:12:27 AM
It's worth remembering that DDO was released with too little content (<150 quests) and you could argue that WAR was released with too much, or at least too much of the wrong sort (PVE). 

Except DDO's PVE content was hands down much better than WAR's PVE content.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on March 03, 2010, 11:58:49 AM
That's very true but I don't see how it changes anything to do with content and paying for more of it.  There are major differences between the two games, DDO is a lot more alt friendly too.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: ghost on March 03, 2010, 01:12:57 PM
DDO's quests/content was cool, but quickly became uncool when you had to run the same dungeons 800 times to level your character.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: veredus on March 04, 2010, 02:29:58 PM
I downloaded a free trial account to check it out. I got my shit pushed in by nothing but level 11s in the scenarios. Which is to be expected, it being a big twink machine now, so I wasn't awfully upset. The game looks better, runs way better. I didn't see how to access the Ironclad scenario, though.

Pretty sure the Ironclad is a weekend only thing. I think. Maybe anyway. Won't come up for me now either so *Shrug*. As for getting stomped by lvl 11's that's because everyone is raised to 11 in t1 now. Trial actually maxes out at lvl 10.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on March 18, 2010, 03:06:46 PM
http://www.ugo.com/games/bioware-talks-collaboration-among-mmos-warhammer-expansions

Quote
UGO: Can you give me an update about the Bioware/Mythic group? And are you guys working together on current projects like Star Wars: The Old Republic and Warhammer Online?

Ray Muzyka, CEO/GM BioWare: Yeah. There's support going on across the group. It's one group. I'm the group general manager, and Greg's the creative officer. Together with the group operations manager, marketing, there are (general managers) at every studio. It's very much a team orientation. There’s a lot of collaboration, a lot of sharing of best practices, a lot of offers of help. We make the MMOs and RPGs for all of EA. People are really passionate about making them, and people are doing everything they can across different areas of the BioWare group to enable people to be successful.
...
UGO: Warhammer Online has had its ups and downs. What's your strategy around that game?

Muzyka: It's a really high quality MMO, and it's one of the highest-rated MMOs of all time. We are really proud of the team that did it. They did an amazing job delivering a really high-quality experience. It's been very successful; a lot of people have played it. Right now it's really profitable business unit within my group. I think the team is really focusing on continuing to make sure it's a stable, high-quality service for the fans who enjoy the universe. It's neat because,we've actually seen more people come into the universe which is fun. We've tried some free-to-play models for some of the earlier levels, and I think that's actually drawing people back in. We have new content planned and all kinds of cool expansions for it.

"Highest-rated", "profitable" & "cool expansions" all remind me of "mythic seconds".


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Hawkbit on March 18, 2010, 07:39:51 PM
All those dumbass sunglasses they were always wearing are tinted a bit rose nowadays. 


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Draegan on March 22, 2010, 03:39:44 PM
That quote is terrible.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Rondaror on March 24, 2010, 06:46:28 AM
If you belong to a NASDAQ listed company, you have to wear a business suit. Even Bioware is not proofed against that......

Sure, he has to be positive in his statements...but he shouldn't exaggerate.

Profitable business? Only if you do not take the development costs into this equation.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: UnSub on March 24, 2010, 06:53:59 PM
They may have cut Mythic so far to the bone that WAR is profitable.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lantyssa on March 24, 2010, 06:58:12 PM
And profitable on a monthly basis does not mean it is close to recouping development costs, either.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Arthur_Parker on March 25, 2010, 02:25:57 PM
WAR Gets One-Step Subscription from Free Trial (http://www.gamersdailynews.com/story-16950-WAR-Gets-OneStep-Subscription-from-Free-Trial.html)

Quote
Mythic Entertainment today announced that subscribing to Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning (WAR) is even easier with the introduction of the new one-step upgrade method for the critically acclaimed MMORPG (WAR).  The new process allows endless free trial players the ability to upgrade to the full version of WAR simply by subscribing.  Players who subscribe through the WAR free trial will not be required to purchase the retail version of the game.*  (Existing retail codes are still valid for 30 days of game time for new accounts.)

Players can join the WAR endless free trial and experience the new user journey, all of the intense Realm vs. Realm™ action and subscribe to the full version of WAR by visiting: http://www.warhammeronline.com/.

*UPGRADE FROM TRIAL TO FULL VERSION OF GAME REQUIRES A MONTHLY PAID SUBSCRIPTION.   EUALA, EA ONLINE TERMS & CONDITIONS AND SERVICE UPDATES CAN BE FOUND AT www.warhammeronline.com.

EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON www.warhammeronline.com.

They really felt you needed to know those last two bits of info.

I'm wondering if the 30 days notice thing is just intended to cover themselves for all the "features" they rip out each patch.  It's fortunate that WAR is so "profitable", so they aren't in the same situation as Turbine when they gave 4 months notice about closing AC2.  Turbine did manage to squeeze out an expansion first though.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Lum on March 26, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
It's standard legalese. Every MMO has similar language.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on March 29, 2010, 10:06:04 AM
Thought this was funny since my son this weekend drew on and destroyed my art books that I got with my collector's edition.  Both are now seemingly useless in a similar way :P


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: March on March 31, 2010, 07:11:52 AM
This just out: Dyes fixed in 1.3.5

<sigh> the rage of a broken heart.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Threash on March 31, 2010, 08:51:13 AM
When did they break dyes?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: March on March 31, 2010, 09:16:24 AM
Apparently, Day 1


There were always a few oddities with certain dye colors when applied to certain areas... since you could preview everything, you just shrugged and didn't apply.

I suppose the irony is that even their "broken" system is something I'd love to see in WoW.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Shatter on March 31, 2010, 09:39:10 AM
This just out: Dyes fixed in 1.3.5

<sigh> the rage of a broken heart.  :heartbreak:

This might turn it....oh screw it


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: Hawkbit on April 01, 2010, 08:36:19 PM
I loaded the trial to do some PvP in the lower tier last night.  Two matches and Order had single guild premades in both.  There's absolutely no incentive to play even at the most basic level of the game when I'm being spawn camped.  I realize there's a whole faction of people that think I'm whining because we lost and if I really wanted to win I should make a premade. 

If you steamroll people that are trying your game out for the first time, don't expect many of them to come back for more.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: tazelbain on April 02, 2010, 08:16:56 AM
Did they they ever put "Queue for RvR" in?  Did that help RvR?


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: veredus on April 02, 2010, 11:27:15 AM
I loaded the trial to do some PvP in the lower tier last night.  Two matches and Order had single guild premades in both.  There's absolutely no incentive to play even at the most basic level of the game when I'm being spawn camped.  I realize there's a whole faction of people that think I'm whining because we lost and if I really wanted to win I should make a premade.  

If you steamroll people that are trying your game out for the first time, don't expect many of them to come back for more.

Honestly I think you got some bad luck on that. I play on a trial account quite a bit and just queue up solo or with my son (who's 8 and just plays a tank and runs into the middle of the enemy to distract them) and I am on the winning end as much as the losing end. Ya premades suck but there doesn't seem to really be that many of them.

Edit: As for the queue for rvr, ya that is in but does not work on trial accounts. I did the ten day comeback with my old paid account and what it does is teleports you to the closest warcamp to the action. It's not a queue, it's just a way to know where and get to the hotspots for rvr. It's actually kind of nice.

T4 still sucks though.


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: jakonovski on April 04, 2010, 09:47:37 AM
I wanted to try the trial to see how the game has changed, but apparently even that is too much for GOA to handle. My game login doesn't work and the key the gave for the trial is invalid.  :uhrr:



Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: eldaec on April 13, 2010, 04:21:02 PM
Edit: As for the queue for rvr, ya that is in but does not work on trial accounts. I did the ten day comeback with my old paid account and what it does is teleports you to the closest warcamp to the action. It's not a queue, it's just a way to know where and get to the hotspots for rvr. It's actually kind of nice.

They did a similar thing is daoc - was also pretty cool then.

But wait...

Edit: As for the queue for rvr, ya that is in but does not work on trial accounts.


what?

does not work on trial accounts.

but...


Title: Re: v1.3.2 PTS Patch Notes
Post by: veredus on April 13, 2010, 09:39:58 PM
It's not really needed for trial accounts since you only have access to one rvr lake. It's still stupid it doesn't work though, they should let people see how it works and how easy it is to get to the "fun". Just another bad decision.