f13.net

SOE seems to be pulling out all the stops for the new game.  They've used over 200 actors to do the voiceovers for all the NPCs in the game - they claim you will recognize many of the actors and I am sure we will hear the bigger ones announced as the game gets closer to release.

There is an article on Gamespy (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/everquest-ii/503435p1.html?fromint=1) about it, and a new video  (http://everquest2.station.sony.com/media/movies_voice.jsp)that they have made available.

Some of the impressive bits:

And not to see too fanboish, check out this screen shot of some piercings (http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/481/481244/img_2065743.html).  I get the feeling that EQ2 is going to put the SWG character customization to shame :)

Lots of nice features coming in this one, lets hope they get the gameplay down!

In other words, installing EQII will be reminiscent of installing MS Office back when it came on 25 3.25" floppies...  Tho likely also prescient of the gameplay...  camping the 'insert_disc_dialog23' spawn.  Eventually you'll get the 'Ding!' of 'Installation Complete'.

I've played EQ for almost 5 years now.  This holds no appeal whatsoever.

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Alkiera

I don't really have a problem with big/lengthy installs.  It's only a one-time chore, and if it's going to add depth to the gameplay then to me it's worth it.  Of course, there are plenty of people who'd argue that talking NPCs don't add jackshit to gameplay.  But I think it'll be a welcome change.

I was wondering what their strategy for dealing with WoW, CoH, and that Vanguard game was.

Well, one issue that comes to mind is patching quests...  Adding new quests is certainly a lot more annoying, and downloading all the data for a new quest means that a) no free quests, or rare ones;  b) with all the quest data on the client end, it'll be hacked eventually, and we'll end up with the quest equivlent of Lucy (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/).

I see this as just more of 'teh shiney', tho this is auditory shiny rather than visual, and therefore somewhat novel.  As an MMOG vet, 'teh shiney' doesn't impress me much.  I've heard nothing about EQ2's story or gameplay that interests me...

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Alkiera

I can't wait to see the player hacked porn star voice overs. Now that'd be worth getting the game for. Mangle away, oh dedicated EQ Hackers! ;)

What issue?  A voice MP3 is fucking TINY.  Ebert and roeper have less than 300k files for their reviews that are over 3 minutes in length.  Poor quality, but even doubling that is nothing bandwidth wise.

The only thing where it would annoy me is if there is a repetitive quest that you do repeatedly and maybe you have to listen to the voice without being able to skip it.  All that is unknown though.

I can still hear Cain saying "hello my friend, stay a while and listen" and Adria's "I sense a soul in search of answers" even though I haven't played the game in years because they were so thoroughly burned into my memory through repetition.

Self: "Not in town." "Not in town." "Not in town." "Not in town." "Not in town." "Not in town." "Not in town."

Self: "Yes, that is a cow"

Note that this is not new, Earth and Beyond had voice-overs, right? However E&B did not provide voice-overs for any quests after lauch, so it is definitely something to watch out for.

Rumors have it that the game will be shipping on 2 DVDs and will require about 20 gig of disk space.

And when you take a look at the graphics, I think its pretty clear that this game is going to require a pretty high end computer to run.

As far as computer performance is concerned at least, this is definitely going to be a 'next' generation game (can never remember what generation we are currently on).  This will probably hurt their initial sales, but I think they are really looking at this from a long term approach and can afford to do that with their previous successes.

I am starting to have a little more faith on the "you need a supercomputer to run it" front.  The recent graphics engine upgrade in EQ1 (while introducing a host of bugs and annoynces) resulted in a truly staggering performance improvement for me.  The Bazaar, with ~500 players in it, went from a slide show even at very close clip plane to almost seamlessly smooth at max clip plane and all settings maxed.

If they can retrofit EQ1 this well, I assume (straight outta my ass) that they could make an even more efficient engine for a game designed from the ground up.  If that's true, I could see a game with EQ2's level of graphics running well on my computers (which are decent but hardly bleeding edge).

The problem is that 'they' could be entirely different people.  They could also be the same though.  The EQ2 engine would have been written in bulk years ago, and they say the new EQ engine took 'over a year' of development.  Not sure if the same people are working on the engines.

I also assume SOE has some secret projects underway in the background.  Probably not heavily manned though.

I only played the beta of E&B, but I only remember voice for the tutorial and onboard computer.  I have a fuzzy memory of that though.  Utterly hated the game too much to play it very long.

I hope the 20 gig remarks are not true.  Then again I already need a new hd and they are pretty cheap.  I horde too many southpark episodes and such. I also seem allergic to uninstalling games.

Oh I expect eq2 to be a huge hard drive hog. It looks like it will be 7 to 8 cd or 1-2 dvd depending which way they want to go.  Then again if you take all the current disks for eqlive it probably is up to 10 cds or so size wise.

I downloaded their movie and it does look interesting. It is combining the moods and social animations of swg with voice. That could be really nice in game. I was surpised how much I like the emotes in swg especially since many of them fire off in normal conversation. Like when I am telling somebody no my character automatically shakes their head. It dosnt sound like much but it really does make the characters seem more alive.

WoW also makes use of some more voice stuff not to the extant of eq2 but there are apparently various voice emotes and some ambient use of voice.


Kaid

While voiceovers are no substitute for gameplay, they do make for a more immersive experience. So I welcome this development, and honestly I could care less about the size of the install (within reason).

Even more important than voiceovers though is action on the part of NPCs. The Gothic series got this right. NPCs actually move instead of standing in one place staring off into space. A smith could be found hammering at his anvil, sleeping, or getting drunk in the bar, depending on the time of day.

I believe anyone who has played Gothic 1 or 2 would find it hard to stomach static NPCs.

Posted on Corp forums long ago by me:

Sony is considering re-labeling EQ to be EQ-Classic, and offering a "ForeverQuest" bundle pack with both EQ+Expansions and EQ2 in one big collectors edition for $69-99.00pricepoint, including leatherbound packaging and binder manuals and map kits from all of the products. Their thought is newcomers to the genre, after seeing EQ2, will want to see and play the classic to link the story. Thus increasing the subscriber base to both products.

EQ2's engine shares more in common with Star Wars Galaxies than SoE will admit, and will tell you.

EQ2 will ship on 8-12 CD's, and require massive harddrive space, much of it graphic, music and sound files.

SoE marketing estimates roughly 25% of EQ2 players will have TWO accounts, which was one of the primary motivations of having tradeskill only characters, completely seperate from adventuring/combat characters. A pure marketing move handed down from the top floors of SoE.

SoE wants to price EQ2 in the $19.99 per month range, but their own internal polls show that currently $15.95 is the maximum tolerable threshold for many gamers(which is SWG's price, the highest in the industry). SOE is debating how to increase the threshold level through incentives or perks.

SoE marketting has predicted if they do things right, 65-75% of EQ1 players will play BOTH EQ1 and EQ2, and continue to pay for both.

SoE marketting will begin to push EQ1 players to upgrade their computer systems, in anticipation of them also playing EQ2.

SoE is considering a TotalQuest (SuperQuest, QuestPass and other names being discussed) package, giving new EQ2 players access to EQ-Classic, for one price of around $24.99 - as a major incentive to get their EQ1 players to play both. (Price being debated)

EQ2 beta test has been delayed, the product is behind schedule. SoE is under tremendous pressure to release a product that has almost as much content as the current EQ, at the time of release. Which is unprecented for a mmorpg.

SoE is currently secretly using a select few superGuilds to test how fast they can flesh out the high end epic content in EQ2. These tests to date have been inhouse only using pre-built characters of appropriate levels.

I don't know.  Just announcing voice-overs doesn't guarantee they'll be good.

That's one of the things I noticed about EQ2 ads; they're all technology showcases.  "We have high-poly models.  Realistic blah.  Voice-overs for everything."  I suppose it's because they can't advertise content, since it's pretty much the same as EQ1, but high-tech does not a game make, IMO.

Even Doom 3, while advertising tech, have still managed to actually say that they're going for a scary game, and are at least applying all that tech in part to achieve the scary effect.

I don't see how your post has anything to do with the thread, Hrose, other than you mention bunch of cds which has been known for a LONG time.

I think attempting to add voiceover work is a good idea, something nice to add to immersion. The devil is in the details, or at the very least, the implementation.

Client side storage seems a good idea, until you get to the idea of having to redo voiceovers for quest corrections. It would seem to add a whole new level of QA to the process, and we all know this falls under Customer Service, which falls between making sure the Coke machine is full and cleaning the bathrooms on the SOE budget. I'd be of the opinion that streaming would be better for an MMOG, except for the bandwidth that will cost.

hmm
anyone know if they plan to keep on releasing expansions for EQ after EQ2 is released?

Of course they will keep expanding EQ.  They just fully redid the engine for just that purpose.  So they can move forward on expansions and add in more and better expansion content.

The new engine is pretty slick in EQ actually.  It runs WAY better than the old one, has nice distant fog effect instead of popup, the lighting effects are a huge improvement, and the day/night cycle, sky, and weather have been redone.  Good stuff, but mostly improvement in performance like they wanted.  To really USE the new engine they need new art of course which will trickle in like the new spell effects trickled in when they changed that engine.  LOVE the new spell effects (new being maybe 3 months ago or so?  I forget)

Should have just gone with text-to-speech tech and been done with it. Would have saved 8 CDs worth of data. At 1 meg a minute on MP3 128kbps that is 7.8 gigs for 130 hours (YMMV).

What with the singing software (http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/vocaloid/en/sample.html) and all I think text to speech is ready for primetime.

I need to hear a lot more than tiny snippets like that before I think text to speach is anywhere near ready for primetime.  And singing is actually abit easier to do than straight speach in something like that.  A lot more range and flexibility in modulating the tone, and they have a series of fixed pitches to hit that is easier than a believable non-monosyllabic speach.  I suppose if they had these things set to some ambient type music so that the pitch would fluctuate a little but not sound like actual singing it might work...

Hrm...

The sound files I saw there were either backup singing or in the case of the leon demo pretty drowned out/mixed with music.  Hard to focus just on the voice, and in many parts it was pretty unintelligable.

as a non-American the thing that shits me about voice overs in games are the damn American accents.  Just seems so out of place in a fantasy setting to me.

This is a good point, by doing this SOE seems to be completely focused on NA.  It would take a huge effort to convert all that voice over stuff to a different language.  Unless of course they were going to release it in different countries without any voice.

This is one of those things that is essentially fluff, its not really good or bad. Its great though for marketing. Especially for demoing at E3 or similar event.

Dunno why the other thread was locked.

But in any case, as long as this is toggleable, we don't need to worry about Gnoll Fang turnin #4,265

After thinking on this one for a while, I am actually pretty interested.

It could really help the NPCs feel more alive. As a jaded mmorpg player, it's all too easy to see npcs as nothing more than lifeless vending machines. Viva le illusion, perhaps?

It might bring back a LITTLE of that ooh and ahh factor that was so nice in the first few mmog games we played.  Definately something new at least.  Personally new is good.  We should all agree on that on some level.

Even if it fails, hey... Haven't we all been asking for some NEW screwups for a long time?  :P

We have some interesting times ahead.  CoH, then probably WoW followed by EQ2.  Three games that will be fun to watch, even if they suck to play.  And I have a feeling we might actually get three decent games for different playstyles.

Ya, new good. Same, bad :)

This voiceover thing is a late-edition to the game, resulting in much rewriting of scripts according to the PC Gamer and other sources. Once again, this shows SOE's ability to adapt to their increased awareness of competition, and I'm sure they have their sights set on WoW for obvious reasons :) I won't pipe in the contrived "SOE is scared of Blizzard" crap, but the games are parallel on many levels, including theme, brand strength and aggressive development.

It will be interesting to see who firebombs the other's offices first.  They would enlist a rabid fanboi to do it of course and said fanboi would deny being told to do it.

The fanboi wars will be ugly, but with every casualty we will have one less fanboi.  Can't wait till it starts...

*whispers*
*EQ2 sucks, no, WoW sucks...*

Yea, it's about time we get back to the old UO v EQ days.

If they aren't scared of Blizzard, they damn well should be. If anything can extract players from EQ, it'll be a game that follows the EQ formula with quest-based, quick advancement and plenty of immersiveness.

Of course, after a month with the current WoW fanbase, they may run screaming back to EQ. But of everything I've seen, WoW has a better chance for success than EQ2.

I can't think of anything that would put a serious dent in EQ's playerbase.  The time invested in their characters is just too much for many of them to just walk away from.

The real question is "how many of those same people you just mentioned will want to start all over again with EQ2?". There will always be those freaks that love the uber grind, but I think we may be surprised how many of them go "been there, done that". I think it is extremely important for EQ2 to come out first if they intend to fight off WoW.

Like Haemish said, WoW has a ton of the stuff current EQ players are looking for. SOE better get EQ2 out first to get their hooks into their own fanbase. Fuck voiceovers, get the thing on the market. I guess I really don't know a whole lot about the EQ fanbase though, as I never played it :)

Been there (http://www.darkageofcamelot.com) and done that (http://www.istaria.com), with almost the exact same pre-release verbage.

SOE can do one of three things here. Rush it to be out a few months before WoW, do their typical aggressive launch-at-the-same-time or wait for the hype of the probably-incomplete WoW to die down after a few months. The games can definitely co-exist, but if they launch at the same time, yes, both SOE and Blizzard should be concerned.


EQ2 is less like EQLive than DAoC was. But the point is valid. People think EQ, they think raids and camps and five hour sessions or don't bother logging in. It's the message that must be adequately marketed. The game play itself should technically stand well under scrutiny if people are looking for how it's the same.

Hmm, I actually don't agree with this - trying to out-EQ the original is an exercise in futility.  Havn't we seen this tried over the past 5 years?  Have you really listened to what EQ players say?  Sure, there are plenty of disgruntled ones that leave for other things (and those make good targets).  But most of the current, and even many ex-players don't like things easy - many of them don't want things like maps, email, waypoints, soloing, short downtimes, easy quests, trival death penalties, even instancing to be the norm in a game.  Things that make the game easier also cheapen their accomplishments because any joe smoe can do them.  They like EQ because they can separate themselves from the casual gamer - any game that fails to offer that ability to separate the casual and the hardcore gamer will never live up to the kind of success that EQ and FFXI have.  

A good analogy is the explanation of the Matrix from the first movie... people REJECTED the first matrix because it was too perfect, too easy and not realistic enough.  They had to remake it with the pain and suffering of humanity as an integral part of it in order to keep people entrapped.  I think it is an ironic phenomenon, but if a game is too "fun", it breaks the immersiveness factor, its not addicting, and it gets boring quick.

The sad truth I think is that a lot of games are successful because they are simply too hard for the casual gamer to succeed at.  Advancing in these games is only partly about successfully accomplishing something yourself... the other half of the equation is watching someone else FAIL to accomplish the same thing.

WoW does have one thing those other me-too-EQ type games don't; they have a built-in fanbase that is accustomed to that type of online gameplay. Sure, SWG had a built-in fanbase, but with a game that was nothing like what the fanbase would expect.

I'm not saying "WoW WILL KILL EQ OMFG!" but I am saying they'll take a hit. EQ will be more successful than EQ2 and WoW will beat the pants off of EQ2. What remains to be seen is how much inertia keeps people in EQ if WoW actually does out-EQ it, as well as how much longer SOE wants to keep promoting EQ1 as their flagship title. I think the lack of success of EQ2 will force them to do it longer than they want.

Here I agree. I think the lack of hype EQ2 has been able to generate thus far has compelled SOE to allow the EQLive team more latitude. In fact, that PC Gamer article also mentioned the "friendly competition" between the two teams, almost in the same breath as it said that as of a year ago, EQ2 was planned to replace EQLive. Ever since then, it's about winning back those players who have left.

However, I also don't think WoW is any stronger competition to EQ than DAoC. Back then, there was exactly one PvE centric fantasy-themed game coming, and so much of its positioning to the gaming commuting was plans to be EQ done right. MMOG #5 after the rather aborted attempt from Funcom, and after a two year stint where there was really just UO, EQ and AC.

WoW getting the hype now is probably the same reason SWG got their's: MMOG hopefuls from outside the current playerbase. Oh, there's the cadre of beta-jumpers who gotta be pumped in to add credence to relevance. But this is Blizzard's first foray into MMOGs, and they can fund it because of the strong name they've developed from outside of it.

Equally, however, the time that current players have invested in EQ is what puts off new players joining the game.

I'd imagine EQ2 would aim to take those new players who reject EQ because the idea of starting as a noob in a mature game doesn't sound fun.

I'd agree however, that the development of EQ2 was intended to kill off EQ1, and the general perception that EQ1 players won't play EQ2 in great numbers must be scaring the hell out of SOE. Especially after the AC2 fiasco.

True, but then you're right back to the "EQ, but with more shiney and 25% of the content" product model.

I'm almost thinking that SOE would be better off re-packaging EQ2 as some monster upgrade to EQ1 and charge $50 bucks for that.

I have been playing EQ a long time, and I have never, ever seen anything like the amount of hype WoW is generating on the major EQ boards.  It isn't DAoC/SB/SWG/AO buzz.  It is several orders of magnitude greater than that.  And the drumbeats are coming both from the top end raiders and low end groupers, which spells trouble for both WoW and EQ  probably.

I don't believe that EQ2 was ever intended to replace EQ1, at least not for a long, long time.  I saw EQ2 as a way for them to grab a larger share of the new players (new graphics, plus it has probably really sucked to start new at EQ for quite some time now).

MMOG sequels?  Meh.  Its a habit from other genres, where [Game] [X] gets replaced by [Game] [X+1] every few years.  Theres just no reason to do it with an MMORPG.  Update your graphics, add quests, fix bugs, release expansions.  If the basic systems of your old game are so borked that a complete re-write is needed, then make another game.  Why make The Sucking, Part Deux?

Getting the old playerbase into EQ2 will require a broad replication of EQ1, which brings into question the whole concept of a sequel.  Why pay expensive programmers to replicate content that you already have?

If getting new players into EQ2 is the aim, then call it something else.  Legions of people are turned off by the word Everquest.  Thats no way to start.  

SOE is not in a position to get either the old playerbase or the new.  Nor was Turbine.  Nor would Mythic be if they announced DAoC II.  

For this reason EQ2 is not really comparable to either WoW or FFXI.  Both of those are original MMOG efforts, capable of garnering new players AND fans of their respective franchises without having to directly mimic or canabalize older subscription games.  I suspect that EQ2 will do poorly, but for the reasons presented above, not just the presence of other new games.

I wonder how heavily SOE will go after television ads?  They seem to be investing a ton of money in a feature that will not translate at ALL to print advertising.  The only logical thing would be to target television and/or movie trailers.  Seeing a living breathing talking game could get some non-gamers interested, but only if they already have someone in the family who is computer saavy or is already playing it.

Because like most corporations who spin on marketing, The Sucking is a BRAND. It's a brand that has made them lots of money. Granted, the only product that's made good bank has been the original product (and expansions), but they have shown that they want to make Everquest not just a single game, but a whole brand. You can tell by the fact that they've released games in other genres and platforms with the Everquest brand on it (Lords of EQ, EQ Online Adventures) as well as merchandised and licensed stuff (toys, EQ PNP RPG). Extending the brand in a sequel is the natural progression for a marketing-driven corporation.

Never mind that the brand doesn't necessarily "have legs" of its own.

EQ2 is meant to be an adjunct to the EQ brand, and they'll keep alive all the EQ brand products so long as the products make money.

don't forget, EQ 2 is going to be part of SOE's All Access subscription. So for whatever it costs 25? You get EQ, PS, and EQ 2. Thats going to inflate subscription numbers for all 3 games.

Oh yeah, and SOE will not have to worry about their numbers quite as much.  They will get a boost to numbers, but nobody will know if they moved from EQ to EQ2, stayed with EQ, etc...  Internally they will know what games the people are playing and what they are logging into, but that is their information and won't be going out where competitors can see it.  That data has value on it's own, no reason to let competitors have it for free.