f13.net

Just heard this on the radio on the way home.  Blew me away.  I am a massive eagles fan (saw every offensive/defensive snap last year), and I didn't have this one on my radar at all.  Let the fucking media circus begin.  This will be such a distraction for a team that was a couple of plays away from the superbowl last year.  They don't resign Dawkins, but pick up Vick....bizarre move for the Eagles.  I thought they learned their lesson with T.O.

On the other hand, they have some pretty potent offensive weapons (Westbrook, McNabb, Jackson, Maclin) and I am curious how they plan to use Vick.  The Wildcat I guess is obvious.

Hmm...

Edit: Peter King's opinion (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/13/vick.eagles/index.html?eref=sihpT1)

I can't figure out why this is a good move for the Eagles. Sure, they can run the wildcat, but if you don't run Vick out there except on Wildcat plays, you will tip your hand. Unless they really expect to get rid of McNabb (whose new contract covers the same time period as Vick's), what's the purpose of bringing in a questionable QB with big time media distractions attached? But apparently, McNabb lobbied for it.

I don't understand, but at least he's not on my favorite team.

Go figure he goes from my hometown to my Cowboys rival. He was on my shit list before, but barring the Redskins there isn't a team I hate more. As far as the move goes, yeah they want to see if he can replace McNabb. The fans have always been on McNabb, Vick's three years younger, and in a lot of ways he's a more dynamic QB.

Dynamic, unless you want your QB to, I don't know, complete more than 55% of his passes. Vick's got a great arm, but he sucks as a passer.

Calling it now. Career ending injury after a hard tackle from an animal loving defence at some point in the early season.

The only way that scenario could get better is if it's during a game with Buffalo and some shoots Terrell Owens in the same game for being a douchebag.

I am amazed King took him mouth off of Tom Brady's cock long enough to notice. He has gone from interesting football writer to completely unreadable the past few years.

It's unlikely he'll be in football shape anytime soon, and can't play til week 7 besides.

Wonder if the pa announcer in Philly has taken "Who let the dogs out" off of his iPod yet.  And how often it'll get played at road games.

Week 7 at the latest. There is a possible reinstatement before that point.

Sign him for $1.3m, rehabilitate him over the year, trade him for a first rounder next year if McNabb is still any good. Vick is still in the top 6 active QB's in winning %. If he can get his game back together he is THE starting QB for half the teams in the league next year. If he doesn't, you lose next to nothing. If McNabb stinks it up this year you have another option for late season or next year or trade for high pick.

Even if after this year he isn't ready to start, the bad PR will have blown over and someone will give you some good draft picks for him.

Thing is, he's past his prime and even when he was in his prime, he just wasn't that valuable as a passing QB. His winning percentage can be attributed to his legs (which are probably on the decline) and the system Jim Mora, Jr. ran which focused on a lot of running. I don't think for one moment he'll be as good after two years in prison as he was in his best years. Running QB's who throw lots of INT's and INC's don't start after age 30.

Only logic I could muster on this was

a) it may help motivate McNabb.  Not that he needs it.

b) it has some investment potential.  Grab Vick cheap and bring him back to form and sell him off and a markup.   

Maybe well see Vick snap on a wildcat run and pull a "last boyscout" gun move... too bad T.O. and 1/2 the entire Bengals team cant be on the same at the same time  :grin:

Flip This Quarterback, on TLC.

Troubled star players are worth usually a 2nd to 4th round pick.  Troubled players with no defined position in the NFL are probably on the low end of that.  Add his age and his time away from the game and he's worth about as much as Sebastian Janakowski playing linebacker on the open market.  

There's no way they're paying his 2010 salary unless McNabb sprains his pinky (again) and Vick murders whoever's second on the depth chart and shows that he's learned how to pass to someone besides Alge Crumpler while in prison.

I'm a bit skeptical.

Football aside, this will do the Eagles no good at all. So they'd better hope that he suddenly becomes the best fucking QB that the game has ever seen.

What did the Eagles have to lose? At worst they get a bust player who's a media magnet that they dump off. At best they get an outstanding QB to trade for some actual talent at the skill positions.

This is a guy who hung dogs from trees, beat them with sticks, electrocuted them by attaching jumper cables to their genitals, drowned them with his own hands. This is going to significantly tarnish the Eagles name and the value of their franchise. So that's what they have to lose. It may make no difference to your average meat-headed Eagles fan who won't think beyond the game, but it will make a difference to many - including a lot of families who support the Eagles and even some of their sponsors. He'd better be the best damned QB ever.

If only he had done something more benign like attempted murder or spousal abuse... then he'd be squeaky clean by NFL standards.   :why_so_serious:

I've been dying to let this rant out.  You know what Michael Vick's sin was?  It wasn't electrocuting, torturing, etc. animals.  It was electrocuting, torturing, etc. CUTE animals.

If he had beaten his wife/girlfriend, he wouldn't be hated as much as he is now (if she was black).  If he had DUIed and killed someone, he wouldn't be hated as much as he is now. Hell, if he did what he did with roosters and had cockfights, he wouldn't be hated as much as he is now. People eat their sandwiches full of animals that were tortured their entire short miserable lives and spit on Michael Vick.  

The only difference between Vick and any factory farmer is that he did it in open, with animals that (unfortunately for him) are more photogenic than the ones we eat.

(to be clear, he broke the law and I support the criminal prosecution he received.  I'm just talking about the level of fan "hate" for him.)

No. People hate him for abusing an animal that has been at man's side and called his best friend since basically history was written. People hate him because at home they have Fido or Spike or whatever curled up by their feet or barking when a stranger approaches or just being a good play friend for the kids. Dogs are family members. Ask anyone that owns one.

I get your point, but it doesn't quite work in this situation. To dog owners, he didn't just abuse an animal. He betrayed their trust.

Not all animals are created equal. Some are tastier than others.  :why_so_serious:

I him to be torn apart by animals.  He's a psycho monster and has no place on the Eagles, which happen to be the team I've supported for a whole lot of years.  Well, the team I used to support.  It won't be good for us or anyone.  PA is big on fighting animal cruelty, too.  He tortured puppy dogs!  I hate Hate HATE him.  He needs to disappear forever!  Go Steelers.   :uhrr:  

As a Cowboys fan, I'm fine with the Eagles taking some tarnish. Their fans suck anyway.  :grin:

(http://www.democraticwarrior.com/forum/images/smilies/eatown.gif)

I knew a girl from Korea who said that dog meat was mighty tasty.

Those monkey brains in that Indiana Jones film looked pretty nice, too.

Why is it always the brains with you?

:)

I agree with you as to "why" everyone hates Vick more than they would if he had killed other animals- you clearly stated that above.  I'm just saying that that reason is hypocritical.  

In Japan deers are considered sacred and venison generally isn't eaten- but whale, horse, and dolphin are eaten (I've had the first two- whale is ok, horse tastes pretty much like whatever sauce you dip it in).  That may horrify you, but that beef sandwich you just ate horrifies a billion people in India just as much (and the pork rinds horrify a billion Muslims and 15 million Jews just as much).  If I visited South Korea, I'd eat dog and rat too (only if it was legal- I don't know if it technically is anymore).  EDIT:  According to wikipedia, it is illegal. 

I do understand, somewhat, the distinction between killing animals for eating and killing them for sport- I guess you could argue the latter promotes violent tendencies in people or something.  But that is an argument based on the subsequent effect on humans- not an argument that torture for sport is empirically different than torture for consumption.  For all animals involved, pain is pain.  That's why this debate is so amusing.  We hate Michael Vick not for torturing animals, but for torturing animals THAT WE LOVE.  That's grounded in emotion, not logic.    

You're missing the point a little Tri. It's not so much that he killed fluffy animals, it's that he treated them with barbaric cruelty. Even people who love a good steak are generally anti stringing cows up with piano wire and beating them with a stick. To be sure there is some cruelty inherent in meat production and it's naive to ignore that however acceptable farming methods seek to reduce the distress of the animals as far as is practical. There are of course exceptions which is why I don't eat veal or foie gras or battery eggs and I'm not alone in that. The cuteness of the animal isn't really an issue except to the lowest common denominator of populist rage, unnecessary cruelty to animals is generally held as an unconscionable crime by people in the west regardless of the pet/food status of the creature in question.

Fair enough- it makes more sense to me viewed in that light. 

I still think there's a pretty big difference between a family pet and a "sacred animal". The latter is treated as separate and divine, while the former is treated as a part of the family. They both may bring about similar reactions depending on the culture, but the source of that reaction is completely different. In some people's mind, torturing a dog is like torturing a small child while eating a sacred animal is more like defiling a Bible.

Beyond that though, IainC presented the superior argument.

While I'd broadly agree with you, I think I also see Tri's point that people draw the line at different points. Members of the Jain faith often go as far as avoid killing anything, yet I expect most westerners would have few qualms about installing a bug zapper, or salting slugs. I think you are both right to an extent; people do generally abhor excess cruelty to animals, however the reaction increases with the proximity of the animal to people's emotion. Dogs, cats, horses and small mammals are right up there, but you would struggle to attract the same sentiment to the killing of spiders, rats, ants and the like.

I eat meat.  People in my family have raised animals for food, hunted and used animals for work.  Michael Vick didn't "just" use dogs for fighting as entertainment, he tortured dogs in horrible ways for his own pleasure.  He's a sicko and needs to go away.

He did his time.  It's time to move on.

I do find it a little humorous, very amazing and extremely sad however that someone like Leonard Little (Rams) or Donte Stallworth (Eagles, Browns) have both KILLED PEOPLE WHILE DRUNK and yet each of them got a GRAND total of 30 days each in jail (plus the ubiquitous community service and probation).

30 days for a human life (Stallworth didnt even serve his 30 days, he got out in 24) and Vick gets 18 months for killing dogs?  :ye_gods:

Do not get me wrong, I am a dog lover, think what he did is sub human and he got everything he deserved. But how does one rationalize Little and Stallworth getting less time than someone kiting a check for killing someone while under the influence of alcohol?

How can our justice system be THAT screwed up?

As for Vick now... he is a thug and he did not change in jail, he just is being told what to say. I hate the man and hope he suffers a career ending injury in the near future. That said, he paid his time and should be allowed to play. I am just glad he is not on my Chargers!

Actually, there are many who also hate torturing animals we eat, hence the small movement to outlaw cattle farms that don't give cows adequate room to move. There is an argument that free-range meat tastes much better and I am most certainly in the camp that believes we should at least try to raise and kill our feed animals in as humane a way as possible.

But let's face it... even if Vick had done the same shit to COWS (STEER FIGHT!), I think people would have problems with it because the way they killed some of those animals was really just fucking messed up.

I have moved on.  I don't support the Eagles anymore because they signed Michael Vick.  He's a total sick fuck and shouldn't have a cool job like being a professional football player.   And I don't say nice things about anyone who drives drunk and mows down other people, either.   Although they're usually just stupid, not monsters. 

So you're a Giants fan now?  :awesome_for_real:

But in all seriousness, if they let him back on the Falcons there would be hell to pay in this city. The people here really can't stand the guy.

Bit different.

While tragic, the accidents involving Stallworth and Little were accidents.  Stallworth, to his 'credit', did everything right - he stopped, tried to assist, called 911, etc.  Can't remember if Little did the 'right thing'.  And there's not a person on this board that hasn't driven after having a couple or three too many.  It's a mistake/accident that could happen to anyone.  I don't know if any of us 'normal' people would get the relative slap on the wrist that the two (rich) NFL players got (with some of the best lawyers none of us could afford), but that's another discussion for another thread.

Not so much with what happened with Vick.  His was a continuous conscious decision of inhumanity over a period of years. 

My first kneejerk reaction after hearing he signed with the Eagles was to say 'fuck the NFL' and never watch it again.  I'm STILL somewhat of that mindset, however irrational it really is.  He's trash, and I hope there's a nice seat in hell for him.

Nope, since he got popped again for DUI a few years later. If Goodell was commissioner when he was doing his thing he would probably be out of the league. And deservedly so, I might add.

False. I get your point, but please don't make boneheaded generalizations like this.

I have never driven drunk in my life.  Not once.  My sister and I did take turns driving around in a 1948 Willys on acid while wearing other people's specs.  It was okay though because I was only 14.  And, as far as I know, we didn't kill anything.

Seconded.  I have never done it either.  When I was 11 or 12 my school had a speech by a guy in his early 30s, very pleasant and normal, who was a kindergarten teacher right out of college with a fiance.  Two weeks after he started, he was barely over the limit and killed an 8 year old girl at a stop sign.  He came in the gym in leg chains after 10 years in prison (fiance had left him), looking at more (every time he was up for parole, the family of the girl came and spoke against him).   

Maybe school assemblies don't USUALLY work, but that scared me shitless- not enough to never drink, but enough to never drink and drive. 

Yeah this has a ton to do with the topic. Unless Vick ran over somebody, just stop.

He's a dog fighter. Playing the "Fucked Up Monster" hierarchy in the NFL is pointless.

I believe he is a sick fuck and very possibly has not changed one iota.  But more importantly, I believe that everyone deserves a second chance, even when that person's chosen profession happens to be a cool one.  On the surface, he appears remorseful.  It may well be an act, but we may never know for certain.  Just like everyone has a right to hate him, he still has a right to play football and the Eagles have every right to give him the job.  They seem to think it was worth the risk.

And make no mistake - it's not as if he's coming back and picking up where he left off.  He was the king of the god damned NFL before this all came out.  Now?  Quite a different story.  For more than one reason, I would not like to be in his shoes right now.

This. I have never EVER got behind the wheel with even one beer in me. I only rarely drink so that is why, but regardless the statement is inaccurate. I also get the point however as I am sure the majority have been in that situation.

No second chances for people who get pleasure from torturing and killing stuff as far as I'm concerned.  Like was mentioned, he didn't just fight dogs.  He got pleasure from torturing them, even setting them on fire.  No No No.  He should suffer forever.  I don't enjoy seeing any one in pain and I usually even turn over channels on the TV when that sort of thing is going on.  I think I might consider watching his pain for a little bit before looking away.  I hate him a lot.

Ok, fine. But that doesn't mean he deserves to be an NFL player ever again. The NFL should not have re-instated him, but once they did...

I am an Eagles fan and don't care much. They paid nothing for him.

I have a feeling they might be paying the price in PR and trying to save sponsorship.  At least I hope so. This is PA, after all, the state where they are going after animal cruelty relentlessly these days, especially puppy mills.  Even I was surprised at the number of people who signed the petition to ditch Vick and sent letters to Eagle sponsors.  And, yes, I did it too.  I hope they hemorrhage money over this.

Maybe this should've been changed to "there's not a person on this board that hasn't driven without 100% mental acuity."  Might've made it a little more tenable. 

Whether you're tired, sick, on your cell phone, fucking with your radio, etc. everyone has done something stupid while driving at least once.  My first accident when I was 16 was because I was dialing a cell phone and not paying attention.

I'm not saying absolutely hammered driving is the same caliber as the same things above, but they can all lead to accidents.

Driving buzzed is pretty close to texting while driving though. Holy shit do I want to punch people for that.

Punching people while driving probably isn't far off, either!   :ye_gods:

No no, you have to pull over first  :awesome_for_real: