f13.net

http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=bug_1-2-1&thread.id=2846


As covered by the poster if you script a G15 or gamepad with multiple button presses you beat the GCD and get off a bunch of spells. BW are useing the PBAoE with no cooldown to level war bands now bad?


Choppers, etc everyone seems to be exploiting it, any active players comment on how bad it really is?

Is anyone here actually surprised by this turn of events?

This explains what happened here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16797.msg636966#msg636966

It wasn't (just) lag it was his keyboard macros.

Wow, that's broke as hell.

In that other thread there were complaints that the Destruction guy was cheating, but the Order players who used the same technique did such things unknowingly. I really hate the hypocrisy.

Also, it appear that twisting on a G15 was originally declared as a legal game mechanic. Roh-roh.

I haven't noticed anyone doing this on Monolith.  However it would be hard to tell if Choppas are doing it, cuz there are like a billion of them.

Did they not bother with sanity checks on anything?  Geezus this is shoddy programming.

It's the way to effectively stack auras, afaik. Any class with an aura can pull this 'feature' off.

Mythic has ALWAYS had lag problems with their games.  Lag casting, circle strafing, lag jumping, etc in DAoC and now this.  I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks. 

Makes me almost want to resub! (I have a G15) Guess they're doing something right.  :awesome_for_real:

Lol. I do too and I thought - hrm, could be fun for a month. But no.

I play on Gorfang and cant say Ive seen it, but doesnt mean it cant be done. 

There is a mod that is meant to do this (http://war.curse.com/downloads/war-addons/details/twister.aspx) - not sure if it is against TOS or not.

EDIT - might not be exactly the same thing, having taken a closer look, but I'm pretty sure it can be used to exploit the same issue.

 :star: :star: :star:

heeheeheehee

Havent seen it on volkmar either, i've seen aura stacking caused by extreme lag though and i was on a fort defense that took two and a half hours (they are supposed to last exactly one hour).

That's some serious lag man. :awesome_for_real:

 :ye_gods:
 :uhrr:
 :oh_i_see:

 :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:

The last 2 nights Order has capped a zone in T4 and the zone never locked.  Sometimes the timers are off and it takes a minute or 2 longer after the timers 0 out but in this case it didnt period.  GG.  Nice to spend 2 hours taking a zone to not have it cap for the reknown bonus.  Also sucks to defend a Fort for 55 minutes, wipe destro to have them run back and kill the Fort Lord on the bottom floor :P

They always had issue with GCD and rabid keypressing. I remember on my Chosen last time you can actually trigger all 8 aura if you had a macro or keybind.
Even a simultaneous keypress is enough to trigger 2-3 aura at once for the cost of 1 too.

Eh, let it burn I say aint resubbing even though friends are restarting in Volkmar. Have no idea what made them display 'HAVE TO HAVE PVP MMO' attitude.

Warrants a psyduck smiley, imo.

Well, at least they are fixing the problem. Or maybe not (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=1-3_gd&thread.id=5011):


Four months down the road and the balance changes everyone's been asking for get punted to the next patch.

I love how they always choose to add new content then fix current problems, then again most MMO companies do that :P

Style review!  :awesome_for_real:

Just don't ask for Evade I for Thanes.  Ever.

Patch 1.3 was going to make or break warhammer anyway.  Now throw in control over a shiny new realm with all the GCD exploits and class imbalance issues we have now, and it makes it easier for the dominant realm to maintain control over it most of the time.  People have already been logging in less due to the horrible imbalances 1.2 and 1.2.1 brought us, and they are going to be even more disgusted without major class adjustments.

It reminds me of AOC in a way.  AOC kept adding crap that no one asked for while ignoring the immediate issues that were screwing up gameplay.  Warhammer has basically followed the same exact path by wasting resources to produce things no one asked for instead of actually.......fixing the fucking game in a way players did request.

If LotD launches and the super zergs and insta gib classes continue to rule the day, then Warhammer is toast shortly after AION launches.  Like it or hate it, that game has gotten super buzz and good word of mouth in the Warhammer community, and it will eat War's lunch if the game is still in its current horrible state at that point in time.

I never wish a gaming company to fail, but I don't feel sorry for the ones that are too stupid to see the forest due to the trees.

WAR has already failed. It doesn't really matter what they do now.

The only reason that the most resilient-to-Mythic-fuckheadedness players have stuck around is there hasn't been a reasonable PvP alternative yet.

If DAoC were released today as a new RvR experience, it would clobber WAR's sub base. Maybe AION will do that; something sooner than later will.

 :angryfist:

Two points:

1) Most Warhammer fan sites you see people talking about AION right now consistently. It's getting so bad that mods can't shut them down fast enough and topics get derailed.

2) AION just has to pull 30-50k from WAR I think. If they get that from WAR those remaining servers go under due to lack of competition; more folds. The zergs won't matter much if AION is half as good/stable as people are claiming.

Its sad how much I was looking forward to this game and how much I bought into the hype beforehand only to find out it was little more than a circus sideshow. If anything, WAR has proven that a box full of crap is still crap no matter how pretty the bow on top.

I am looking forward to listening to the band play on as the ship sinks faster...the songs always seem so much more passionate right before the end.

edit: Found my shift key.

This. I don't know why WAR pisses me off so much. I have practically every major retail MMO (even though I don't play a lot of them very far; I at least try them on trial to see the gameworld and a little lowbie play).

Must be that Mythic had all the money, marketing, devs, IP and previous experience with DAoC to expect a great ORvR-style MMO.

Don't think I have ever wanted to go so Haemish on a game as bad as I do for WAR (yes, Haemish rants have elevated you to verb status).

I agree 100%.  I LOVED DAoC.  I assumed that DAoC history + a huge development budget = Better_than_DAoC PvP game.  I'm dumbfounded how they could spend so much money and make a worse game than DAoC.  It boggles the mind.   

3-star talent.  :awesome_for_real:

1 star talent, who think they're 3 star, and think working long hours makes them 5 star.

this

+

what Chockonuts said.  The game depends on there always being an equal and opposite number of players.  If they lose much more I'm sure there is a tipping point like what happened to DAoC.  It's not like a PvE game, like DDO, where you still get on with a few thousand subs while people tool around with the content.  There has to be RvR to keep people engaged.  Also, DDO as a low pop game just went free with micropayments, or it will soon.  Don't see WAR being able to do that.

2-sided RVR is always a razor's edge for imbalance to happen.

3-sided RvR isn't immune by any means, but it does have a buffer against imbalance more than 2-sided games, assuming of course that there is sufficient in-game support for the 3-way drift to make a difference.

In DAoC, I had always hoped they would have allowed formal cross-realm allying when any one side got 5 or 6 relics. On Nimue, you might see Hibs and Albs as friendlies in the Frontier (but never, say, in DF), assuming Mid had all the relics.

That's just a 2 side war again though.

Yeah, the problem with the 'if one side gets ahead the other two can team up until they bring them back down' theory is that population imbalances don't correct themselves once the big side loses a couple fights. Once you get to a 2 vs 1 situation you are probably stuck there.

True, but then the game doesn't simply break and ooze brain goo all over either.

It was the first thing I noticed when I got in to the early beta... somehow it just didn't feel right.  It felt like Mythic took a shortcut because it would be (admittedly) much easier to keep track of and balance.

Of course, take away the magic sauce, and no one plays... that's about as easy to balance as there is: 0 = 0.

Regarding the point that when two sides ally to fight the third it is still a one front war... again, true... but a single front that could (and regularly did) erupt into a multi-front war at very inopportune moments... hence the fun.  Besides, cross-faction alliances were *never* universally observed, and the breaking of them in the frontiers led to much drama even within factions.  Bonus Drama.

The game wasn't right for the beginning.  You don't have 3 sets of 1v1.  Good elves vs. Bad Elves.  Chaos vs. Empire etc.

No one felt they belonged to something it was just different boards to play on.  Different tile sets.

It should of been empire vs. chaos at the start and thats it (or any of the other pairings).  Throw in a third side for bonus money.

Immersion?  That's the big problem of WAR?  That's just silly.

That's the thing with WaR... its a prism of wrong.

You start at failed endgame and with just the tiniest twist of your wrist, the prism reflects a new and beautiful wrong... next thing you know, we're in T1 newbie areas wondering how they could possibly have fucked up immersion.

Nothing to do with immersion and roleplaying but team identification.  They have three sets of fights going on.  Empire vs. Chaos, Good Elves vs. Bad Elves and Greens vs. Dwarves. But because they all co-mingle there is no sense of game or fight, just a sense of big battlegrounds to fight in.  The sense of world is gone.

There are good elves?  Seriously?  I must have missed them.  Is there a third elf faction that is actually good?

In warhammer lore no one is good.

In warhammer the MMO there is a definite good side/bad side.

It's really a failing of the game to portray the sides accurately but when I played alliance/order  all I could see was typical fantasy goody two shoes races being threatened by those evil mean chaos people!

The dark elves are good, just ask them.

But yeah, they dumped everything in the Warhammer lore that made it fun.

Correct me if i am wrong, but isn't this the area of the game that falls under the creative director? Taking the lore of Warhammer from Games Workshop and guiding it lovingly into the gaping maw of internet gaming/MMOdom? If that is so, I wonder what (who) went wrong?  :oh_i_see:

The Order/Destruction split is not an MMO invention. This is what GW does in its tabletop game with its yearly global campaigns (special tournaments where the players determine the outcome of a storyline) and also what the WarCry (WHFB) CCG does.

I don't see how that can work. Chaos is meant to be constructed from the essence of all negative emotions (lust, hate, rot, disruption) and seeks to corrupt everything in the world to debased forms of itself and will with pleasure exterminate anyone who gets in its way. While morality is relative that's probably as close to "not good" as we are going to get.

godwinning this thread but...

if the devil came to earth in 1940 and hitler helped fight him, would hitler be considered a 'good' guy?  because that's essentially warhammer lore.

High Elves are arrogant.
Dwarves are greedy.
The Empire is a totalitarian state.
Raven host are folllowers of Tzeentch, who is the god of change, and of hope.
Darks Elves are hedonists, yes, but they just another shade of high elves.
Orks are neither good nor evil, they live for battle. 

Ironically in 40k, orks are the good guys.

Tzeentch is the god of Hope, Khorne is the god of Valour, Nurgle is the god of Peace, and Slaanesh the god(ess) of Love.
From a certain point of view.  :awesome_for_real:

Hmm my Witch Hunter nose detects the subtle scents of Chaos.  This whole thread must be purged!

The Horned Rat is the only good deity. Making the world a safer place for Skaven.

And the Slaan weren't evil, they just happened to have had a small accident with a gate at the North Pole to make it the Chaos Wastes.

Wrong actually. In the original lore, the stuff poaring out of the chaos is unrestricted change. It is actually fairly neutral, but touching it will turn you into a seething blob of jelly as the laws of form native to our world dont exist in the warp. Its poisonous, but not evil.

There were actually quite a lot of Chaos gods, not just the big 4. The Chaos gods are aspects of warp entities that god trapped inside the world after the accident. There were also Gods of Order that came from the warp, such as Illuminatas, god of light and stillness, and Solkan, the Lord of Vengeance and Righteous Retribution. These are distinkt from the Mortal gods such as Sigmar, Khaine and Isha, that existed in the world before the warp accident.

This is the sort of stuff that Games Workshop chopped off their lore to simplify the whole thing and sell overpriced miniatures. It only exists now in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, a far more rich setting than the "official" games workshop garbage. Its also why Game workshop was desperate to get back the rights to WHFRP, as the lore it was based on was far far better and it showed up GWs crappy recent attempts at lore writing. The Brettonians, for example, were fare more interesting than the crappy half baked Arthurian rubbish that GW came out with in recent tabletop editions.

This illustrates why having anyone from GW as creative director for a game means you might as well burn a couple of million as firewood and save yourself the grief.

/ geekgasm on aisle five. Clean up on aisle five!  :awesome_for_real:

WTB a version of Death on the Reik using the Oblivion engine. In fact that entire campaign apart from the last episode was amazing.


I always thought Warhammer was too good to leave in the hands of GW, they don't have the talent to do the setting justice most of the time.

Two things, I'm not sure GW ever lost the rights to WHFRP (http://everything2.com/title/Warhammer%2520Fantasy%2520Roleplay), more like they saw a way to make some cash, I don't think "desperate" is the word more like "disinterest".

Also I'm not sure Paul ever directly worked for GW, but that's more like a minor quibble, not something I've bothered to check.

Edit Also 1st edition WFB was released at least a few years before WHFRP, so they didn't shorten the lore for WFB but rather lengthened it for the Roleplay game.

Here's the thing. Warhammer Fantasy Battles doesn't encompass the lore, the army books aren't the definitive set of background resources. WHFRP again is just a part of the whole. WFB is the Warhammer world explained through the context of a miniatures wargame, it isn't and shouldn't be an attempt to define the entire setting. Players who are interested in the deeper lore can find that through the background books, BL novels, WHFRP supplements etc. For the purposes of understanding the context of the wargame however the lore portrayed in the army books and the rulebooks are intended as a general guide and not the authoritative versions.

Incidentally GW never gave up the rights to WHFRP, it was licenced to Hogshead for a few years but the rights always remained with GW. FF are similarly limited in their licence. GW will never give up control of their settings to a third party.

Yeah but first ed WHFB was a HELLL of a lot different than the modern game, both in lore and gameplay.

What IainC said, also 2nd edition WFB came out before WHFRP, or even 3rd edition hardback just the year after.  They didn't chop the lore to sell overpriced miniatures, selling overpriced miniatures was the core business (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_Miniatures) pretty much the whole time (excluding the early D&D import days).

There's also the Realm of Chaos expansion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realm_of_Chaos_(Warhammer))


[/nerd]

If you're referring to The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion then it is in fact the same engine used for Warhammer Online.

I still have the Slaves to Darkness book.  Man has Chaos ever been sanitized when you compare it to that book.

[/nerd]