f13.net

Demon\'s Souls - From Software & Sony - PS3


Warning: Long and without screenshots. While I watched movies before hand (and gameplay feeds), I can assure you that screenshots and video simply do not do this game justice and I'm not about to betray it like that. If you want screenshots, google them. I refuse to spoil anything of note though, and I can't protect you from the internet. Enjoy the cover art, it's a wall of text from here on out.

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We have three four threads for this in progress:
1. Froth (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16380.0)

2. Gameplay (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16487.0)

3. Spoilers (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16568.0)

4. But is it Fun (verdict: Buy it) (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16447.0)

Feel free to agree or disagree with me here - or ask questions.

If you disagree, I will browbeat you into submission because you're wrong and I'm right and this game is pretty much the future of dungeon crawling. For serious. To be fair though, I've warned you.

Nice writeup. I know it's not your thing, and especially not when you like a game, but it would have been nice to you mention a bit about how it could be made better in the bits that are less than perfect (because nothing's perfect, right?), but otherwise a good read.

I am not qualified to make improvements to this game. Much like Deus Ex, it's too damn good. I am continually shocked that From Software managed to make this thing.

Edit: The only thing I could ask for is more - more of everything. Seriously. This thing is The Total Package.

I've still got a ways to go to finish the game, and reserve final judgement until I do so, but so far, I have to agree with schild -- it's just a totally amazing game.  It is brutal, but fun.  Difficult, but so rewarding as you get better at playing and your character becomes more powerful.  I'm still pretty lousy at it in places, but the combat is just incredibly fun and engaging.  Lots of depth.

It shares something I loved about Ico -- an amazing sense of place.  The castle in the first world, for example, is expansive, sometimes open, sometimes confining, twisting back on itself subtlely (and providing shortcuts through areas once you've been through them the first time and unlocked some doors).  The creatures in the various levels feel like they belong there.  Everything fits together.  It's beautiful (in a dark and grim way).

The voice acting is fantastic.  I look forward to more of the story expanding as I play through, and I enjoy hearing the various NPCs speak.

Little things contribute a lot -- I love how whenever I return to the Nexus (the hub between the various worlds), the Maiden in Black (a key NPC) often has wandered around, or is sitting on the steps near the portal you passed through, kinda kicking her feet in boredom perhaps as she waits.

Ah, yes, the voice acting. It's probably the best voice acting since 1999.

"May thine strength help the world be mended."

Also, "This game is so hard, you're already dead in the box art."

I haven't played it since my second session I think.  I put maybe 6 or 7 hours in.

Loved the piece. It's like the kind of justice I was hoping for this game to get. Like, when you love something and you look for something glorious to celebrate it.
This does.

Besides, Demon's Souls is impacting our family life: me and the son forgot to have dinner for two nights in a row now.

Do the multiplayer aspects work on a US PSN account without having to finagle or something?

Yes.

Hmmmm.  I kind of want to hate this game off hand just because your so (http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/41488/smug.gif) about it.  But it does look pretty damn fun.

Might actually have to break down and buy a PS3 once I secure a newer, higher paying job (now that there are some actual reasons to own a PS3).  I haven't played console games for years, as lifestyle wasn't really leaving me time for it.  Been meaning to jump back in and catch up anyways.

Wasn't the voice acting in Japanese?

No, the voice acting is in English.

Ah, awesome (though kind of weird), no need to worry about shitty localization on that part then.

Schild and myself had quite the heated argument about this on AIM the other day. So I will go ahead and say what would make it a better game for ME (I think a few of you guys also).

1) Coop - I am a huge fan of coop. Being able to experience a game with a good friend is one of my favorite things to do. I think coop is really what sets this generation of game apart from last gen. Having said that, I personally wish the coop was a bit different. Here is where Schild and myself differ. He feels the coop is perfect the way it is, while I wish I had the ability to invite specific people to my game. I also wish the restrictions on coop where a bit less, IE one person alive and one in soul form and such.

2) Brutal death penalty. I nearly gave up on this game in the first level. The learning curve is pretty harsh, and dying really sucks. One idea my friend had (he watches me play) is save stones. These could be a one time use item, that would allow you to save, and then load that save one time. You could make these stones fairly rare, but some times its just REALLY frustrating to get all the way to the end of a level, and then be instagibbed by the boss and have to do it ALL over again, minus all the items you used to get there (heal potions etc).

Those two things I think would make the game better FOR ME.

And lo, the end result was I called Mofiend an XBL kiddie. Coop would no doubt take a lot away from the personal satisfaction gained when you do seemingly impossible things as coop makes the game fucking easy street. This thing is tweaked for single player, not multiplayer. Not to mention the coop structure has a few hooks in the lore.

Also, as for number 2, you WILL get better. Save stones would hurt the replayabillity. Period. But it's the kind of thing they'll add for the pussified instant gratification American audience should it be localized.

NCSX has run out again, HK-Wan has restocked (http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/hk-wan_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ). Most of the f13ers who picked it up got it from him.

Mine just shipped.  Halu Store seems to have some more in stock.  A couple more popped up with what looks like to be a cheaper price.

Psyched.

I approve.

Also, I got mine from dave123 on ebay who was fast and efficient, although he has raised his price since I bought mine (http://stores.ebay.com/dave123eb).

I thought I had a few ideas on how to improve this game, but really they are all ideas that make it easier and therefore are to be discarded.  Stuff like "put up some guard rails so I don't fall to my death as much" or "let me sell things for souls".  I suppose some warning could be given, but since my manual is in Chinese it might just say that you are going to die a lot and I would not know.  I'm sure I can come up with something, maybe how the facial customization is mostly pointless, but that is stretching for complaints.

This guy has been great, but people should be aware that the inexpensive $4 EMS shipping he uses can be hideously, painfully slow, taking 10-20 days in some cases.  That said, I don't think anyone has not gotten their game... just nobody has gotten in particularly quickly.

I still haven't experienced multiplayer -- I spend most of my time in soul form and the one time I tried dropping a blue stone "invite me" marker after 15 minutes I gave up since nobody invited me.  I really would like the ability to be able to choose to play multiplayer with people on my friendslist in addition to the "leave a mark on the floor" model.

Somehow while the game is incredibly unforgiving, it keeps bringing me back for more.  Sometimes I'll take a break for a bit after having my teeth kicked in a few times in a row, but I eventually return and with a bit more practice overcome the current challenge.  Hopefully this keeps up through the rest of the game -- the difficultly is such that I can improve and advance and I don't get completely stuck or utterly demoralized.

How much do you lose by playing this completely offline?

I think the game would be entirely playable and still plenty of fun offline, but you lose some nice bonuses that make things a little less harsh if you take advantage of them:

- no ghostly players to watch (useful hints about gameplay)
- no other-player bloodstains (useful hints about dangerous situations)
- no other-player messages (useful hints)

You also lose the ability to do specific online things like invade another game in black phantom form or to have your game invaded (when you're not in soul form - which may be rare for many players), and you cannot obtain co-op help or offer it.

See thats the thing. I enjoy experiencing stuff with a friend. Also, I usually do one play through by myself, and then another full play through in coop. So FOR ME, this would actually increase replayability. Also, they could just do something like scale the mobs to give them more HP or armor or something in coop, its not like the mechanic isn't already in the game to scale the monsters.

Only thing I'd say could make it better is more levels. Bigger.

That is all. Everything else screams state of the art, hall of fame, GOTY, Academy award, fucking Nobel for videogames.

Yes, when the only thing you can ask for is more, there isn't really a problem with the game. Btw, after 5-1, 3-2, and 5-2, you'll be ready to start a new game. Some of the levels are bugfuck huge and 5-2 is notably treacherous. I fully expect the land of the giants (archstone 4 up next to the third one, the broken one) to be the DLC. They can charge whatever the fuck they want for it.[/quote]

It sounds like a hardcore niche game. "If you've beat the living fuck out of every game out there, give Demons Souls a try!" Schild even gives the hardcore spiel about how this will make "you" a better gamer. Because it's just so BORN HARD!  :why_so_serious:

You can think whatever you want, until you play it all I can hear is the sound an ass would make it if were trying to have a conversation.

Needs more music.  Or anything besides the sounds of movement, fighting and the occasional wind or droning.

(This is based on having seen and listened to the game, but not having played it myself)

http://www.justin.tv/noninja I will be streaming the entire life of this character.

Broadcast done for tonight, couldn't get anyone for multiplayer - not surprising considering what time it is in Japan and Hong Kong.

Cute.

I have to disagree. For me a soundtrack, no matter how good, would just detract from the immersion of this particular game. Certainly music has been used to good effect in many other games but Demon's Souls treads well its own path. That being said there were a few times in 3-1 where having something, anything ease the tension might not have gone amiss with me but the memory of that level will burn bright for probably the rest of my gaming life because of it. I think you really need to play the game and have your own toon on the line in a dark place to appreciate how viscerally oppressive the game can be and how (IMHO) music could only lessen that.

Welcome John Difool. Your name is the coolest reference ever on f13.


EDIT: Now please, don't be Telemediocrity again. That would be irritating.

Agreement.  I think it works fine as-is, with just ambient background sounds.


I've only played the first bits of 3-1, but yow, that level is creepy as hell and the sound has a lot to do with it.

http://www.justin.tv/noninja

Hopefully I'll get helpers this time!

I loved me some King's Field and the sequels back in the day.  Sounds like this could be even better.  Thanks as I would have never heard about this otherwise.

The AI could be improved somewhat.  The red eyed knights and samurai who are supposed to be some of the more difficult enemies in the game have a habit of getting caught on things making it easy to pick them off from a distance.

That's pathing, not AI.

And given world 5 and 3, I'd say the pathing is above and beyond most other games I've encountered, if not all (you'll see why I say that in world 5, which is, literally, a mess).

Somewhat.  Other enemies can run around the same obstacles, and in fact the red eye's can also, and usually will too if you don't attack them first.  If you hit them with a ranged attack though when there is a short barrier in between you, these guys try to attack through the obstacle (and if you're standing close enough to the wall or whatever they can actually hit you still).  As long as you keep hitting them, they'll keep trying to attack even though you're out of range.

In game programming pathing is considered part of the game AI.

Sure. But let's be specific. Because the challenging part of the AI, combat, response, defense, etc is pretty goddamn good.

And yea, Velorath mentions it, the pathing issue is weird. Many enemies can totally avoid obstacles regularly whereas some just get hung up from time to time. I'm sure there's a way to abuse it but I wouldn't really want to.

I like the fact that you can sometimes trick them into falling off of ledges etc. I mean if *I'm* struggling not to fall to my death on a regular basis why shouldn't they?   :awesome_for_real:

This game reminds me of bits and pieces from so many other games (but often done better in this one).  Diablo/PSO/Too Human, Vagrant Story, Ninja Gaiden...

Since Demon Souls appears to be all the talk I thought I'd post the thing that makes me not want this game.

The soul crushing death penalty. I lost patience with that in oh....1999 or before. If I want soul crushing death penalties I'll go ask Brad McQuaid to make a game for me. How can you guys rave about how awesome this is yet throw a fit about it in MMOs? This bloodstain stuff? It's a corpse run in a single player game!

I can only say that everyone that has picked up the game here has loved it.

The difference between DS and a MMO for me is the journey.  Every death is preventable through player skill alone.  There's something to be gained from every failure.  You get better and if you're good enough, recovering those lost souls isn't that big of a deal. 

Also, there's no equipment loss through death.  You don't de-level.  It's not even that big of a time investment you're losing.  It's less harsh than having a party wipe in Persona 3/4 (or any JRPG)  in far as time lost, and you have the ability to fully recover should you choose to.  The only real, unrecoverable loss is any consumables you used along the way.

Not totally true. If you die again on the way back to your bloodstain, poof, all souls in the original bloodstain are gone. There are a few places where dying can get very very frustrating. Say, 1-2 boss, since there is no real shortcut to him, you have to play the whole level over again.

Possibility of soul loss was implied.  It's still not a huge deal.  You get over it.

I've broken controllers over Madden, I didn't get ragey playing this at all.

Then you are a saint sir. I've downed 1 demon so far and I can tell I'm going to need some blood pressure medication before this is over.

You will master this soon enough, if you stick with it. It is one of those rare gem games where you will notice how much better you get. Not in the way of "character levels", because those don't mean as much as they do in other role-playing games, but rather in the way you approach the game and learn to use the game mechanics to turn the tides in your favor.

Also, try the multiplayer, if you haven't already. It really is that good. The adrenaline rush of PVP is a league of its own. And because the outcome is determined a lot by skill and not so much by stuff like equipment or level, it is so much more fun than most other RPG PVP.

Gotcha. I just feel so under geared/under leveled. I chose a wanderer, which I realy like to play, but for the most part I'm still using the gear I started with, which to me seems terrible because I'm used to getting rid of my starting gear asap.

Gear in the game is a bit weird.  There's a few things you pick up here and there, but you do a lot of upgrading of what you have at any given time.

[/quote]

Gear in the game is a bit weird.  There's a few things you pick up here and there, but you do a lot of upgrading of what you have at any given time.
[/quote]

So I'll be more focused on upgrading existing gear than getting new stuff?

Absolutely.

I seem to have reached the stage of life where I want my success or failure to be dependent on equipment and character levels rather than player skill.

Yep, its absolutely terrible when you aren't able to blame your gear for losing.

Depressing for you, maybe, but not really terrible.

I do have to admit that running through 2-2  until I figured out the shortcut had me close to weeping for a shortcut or the ability to spend an hour or two walking around the castle and being able to face roll through it.

On the other hand, I immediately went the shortcut route when I first played 2-2 and didn't even realize there was a whole shit ton of more level to it until after I beat the final boss of the second arch stone and then looked at the strategy guide to see what I missed.   :awesome_for_real:

Article needs more images.  :grin:

Why'd you bump this?

Bloodworth didn't, Teleku did.