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Title: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: stark on February 26, 2009, 10:27:53 AM
I know there is a graveyard forum, but this seems pretty big:

http://www.massively.com/2009/02/26/full-details-on-mission-architect-system-for-city-of-heroes/

(Edit) Also:
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/957/957168p1.html
http://www.gamezone.com/news/02_26_09_11_50AM.htm
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/89736-Hands-On-with-City-of-Heroes-Mission-Architect (helloo fanboy)

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.com/media/2009/02/architect-ui-09b-2252009-1.jpg)


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: Malakili on February 26, 2009, 10:35:31 AM
I was just talking about this the other day.  Well not THIS.  But that I think the ultimate "solution" to having enough content in MMO games is to let people create content.  Its a rough thing, as there could be almost anything and everything open to abuse, but it just isn't possible for a few 10s or even 100s of people create enough content for 1000s of people, and to keep that content fresh.

This is one of the things that keeps people in sandbox games I think.  In a sandbox game, you are ultimately creating your own "content" even if that content is taking place in a pre-set environment.  If you could take that concept of giving more freedom to players to create their own content, you could have almost limitless content, and I think it is really the only way to ultimately go in terms of MMOs.  Think Second Life, but much more controlled to fit a certain game setting.

There are a lot of problems with makign this work on a large scale and keeping things from getting abused, etc, and I don't have the answers, but I think this is the direction that we need togo.


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 26, 2009, 10:38:20 AM
Like the Ryzom ring (http://www.ryzom.com/en/ryzom_ring.html)?


After reading this CoH version, i still think the Ryzom method is better.


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: Merusk on February 26, 2009, 10:58:58 AM
Being able to create zones, items and tinker with all kinds of shit as an IMM/ Admin is what kept me MUDding at the same place for almost 6 years.

Hell, you could create a whole system that determines what 'item budget' is allowed based on the # of mobs, levels of them, etc for item-centric MMOs.  That'd be pretty stellar.


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: Lantyssa on February 26, 2009, 11:22:19 AM
Being able to create zones, items and tinker with all kinds of shit as an IMM/ Admin is what kept me MUDding at the same place for almost 6 years.

Hell, you could create a whole system that determines what 'item budget' is allowed based on the # of mobs, levels of them, etc for item-centric MMOs.  That'd be pretty stellar.
Yeah.  It's what kept me going for a decade.


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: Nija on February 26, 2009, 11:23:25 AM
Ask L-C about user created content. He's one of the reasons that Anarchy Online had to disable it so quickly.


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: skolor on February 26, 2009, 06:09:42 PM
Being able to create zones, items and tinker with all kinds of shit as an IMM/ Admin is what kept me MUDding at the same place for almost 6 years.

Hell, you could create a whole system that determines what 'item budget' is allowed based on the # of mobs, levels of them, etc for item-centric MMOs.  That'd be pretty stellar.

At first glance, this seems awesome. It'd be enjoyable, for a while.

The only problem is that it requires a shit-ton of replay value. Sandbox type games, and even most single player games keep getting played because they have a lot of replay value. You want to go back and do that again. MMOs are largely driven by "I want to do that once." No one in an MMO is going to go farm a boss, just because its an interesting fight. They might farm it because it has a cool drop, but they sure aren't farming it because of the fight.

If there was, effectively, an unlimited amount of content, people would only play what had the lowest Risk/Reward ratio. With unlimited content, groups would never be made, because the tank would want to run one thing (Which had an item drop that was perfectly itemized for his spec/class), the DPS would each want to run another, and the healer wouldn't care, because they don't really matter at all. Everything would fall apart pretty fast.

On the other hand, a large amount in the community involvement in the creation process is the way to go. Create special community Dev groups with a set number of members (the same size as the encounter), and have allow them to create things on a test server. Let them debug it, play with it, and come up with cool ideas. By deputizing parts of the community, you generally get a good idea of what the average user wants. You also get a lot more dedicated of people actually bashing away at it. If kept sparse, so that you can't just say "Hey, I want to go make XXXX", but open enough that with some work anyone can get into a Dev group, you'd probably get the best results. Too many Devs, and the game itself will get boring. Not enough, and you won't have enough input. Off the top of my head, I would think the balance point would be around 1 new community dev person every week or so.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Merusk on February 26, 2009, 06:44:40 PM
Speak for yourself.. I still run low-level dungeons because I like their atmosphere.  I don't need crap on my DK, but I'll still run max-level dungeons, too, because I find some of the fights fun.   Now some I'll never set foot in again, (I HATE YOU GNOMER!) but not all players run dungeons just once or only for drops.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on February 26, 2009, 08:34:26 PM
Here's the official FAQ (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=13119948).

On the surface, it sounds like a great system. I've got some missions in my head I want to create for CoH/V, so will definitely give it a spin.

However... it doesn't deal with CoH/V's biggest issue: repetitious use of maps. If you could actually create maps - and I'm sure that is on the cards because it is too obvious not to be - then we might have a winner. The vast majority of my missions are going to use the smallest map possible so I can get the players involved in the story, not fighting through a 3 level Crey Lab with a defeat all objective.

On a slightly different note, the promo video for Mission Architect is aweome. Captain Dynamic sounds scarily realistic as a designer of these kind of missions. "Touch my awesome button" has annoying meme potential written all over it.

Captain Dynamic video. (http://www.captaindynamic.com/?id=1)


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Xurtan on February 26, 2009, 10:16:40 PM
Speak for yourself.. I still run low-level dungeons because I like their atmosphere.  I don't need crap on my DK, but I'll still run max-level dungeons, too, because I find some of the fights fun.   Now some I'll never set foot in again, (I HATE YOU GNOMER!) but not all players run dungeons just once or only for drops.

This. It's not like I ran Unrest of EQII (http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Estate_of_Unrest) over and over again for loot. The loot isn't even that good at max level anymore. -_- I just love the zone.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: BoneDancr on February 26, 2009, 11:23:12 PM
I have never understood why someone has not just gone back to what works and brought paid actors into their games.  The last game I ever saw feature characters in was Everquest and they were always wildly popular.  In UO whenever there were GM events players came from everywhere to participate, wars broke out, and the entire game was enriched with memories. 

The whole RPG genre originally started with smart players trying to beat the wits of some goofy dude playing the roll of a Dungeon Master.  Redistribute some of that upfront cost in scripted encounters to scripts played out by people with mini-gm controls and GOOD auditing systems to keep them in check.  There is plenty of cheap labor out there.



Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on February 26, 2009, 11:40:29 PM
The problem with live events is that everyone who can't take part - most of the player base - gets annoyed that they can't take part. Especially if you factor in multiple servers.

MxO had (still has?) live events running managed by GMs and its a core part of that game. But it's the only title I'm aware of that does it regularly. I'd wager the cost / benefit for GM content isn't worth it compared to pre-generated content that can be run at the individual player's leisure (or might randomly active during their time on).


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Merusk on February 27, 2009, 05:58:24 AM
The problem with live events is that everyone who can't take part - most of the player base - gets annoyed that they can't take part. Especially if you factor in multiple servers.

Then there's also the problem of the players themselves.  I took part in an event in Oasis where 3 sand giants wandered away from their mother, who came looking for them.  The zone was to the point of crashing there were so many players in it (200+, a lot for EQ1) and all of those players were simply trying to kill the giants for loot instead of RPing, as the event was intended.  They interacted a bit, replied to those players who were RPing and spent a lot of GM "insta heals" on themselves so they wouldn't die, but it was total chaos. 

When they left after running through the script, all there was in chat was  a ton of bitching that "wtf they wouldn't die. Lame" "I didn't get any loot"*  and "Wtf was the point of that."   I had fun, but then I was RPing back and forth with the giants as a Warrior of Innoruk should.. warning them about the light races that only wanted to slay them, trust me!

Later events you couldn't even target the characters and they refused to deviate from their script.  There was no interaction with the playerbase, so you were in essence watching a poorly-done cutscene.  It was even less fulfilling than an RP event in a kill-n-loot game.

* As if they would have in the first place with EQ1's "First to click gets it" system


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: WindupAtheist on February 27, 2009, 07:39:14 AM
UO just kicked off another live events program within the last month or two. Other than a little inevitable but not particularly noteworthy bitching about who got better rewards for what, it's been pretty well received. (Rewards are fluff items and not weapons/gear, but since there's no soulbinding those unique rewards command fortunes from rares collectors.) Some of them are monster-bashes, some of them are things like scavenger hunts or (I think) costume contests.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Nevermore on February 27, 2009, 07:55:38 AM
Actually, CoX has had some live events.  Mostly just some devs showing up at Pocket D as signature characters for dance parties.  I know some have shown up for in-game weddings.  And there was the big Manticore/Sister Psycho Psyche wedding thing they did. 

The problem with all those is the zone fills up so fast even people who are online and want to participate end up getting locked out (new iterations of the zone will be created such as Atlas 2, Atlas 3, etc if too many people pour into a zone).


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2009, 08:11:38 AM
If you could actually create maps - and I'm sure that is on the cards because it is too obvious not to be - then we might have a winner.
If you've ever used a level editor before it's not obvious.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on February 27, 2009, 08:17:40 AM
If you could actually create maps - and I'm sure that is on the cards because it is too obvious not to be - then we might have a winner.
If you've ever used a level editor before it's not obvious.


I know it's not simple, but CoH/V's base system does offer some in-roads. The current system can hold up to about 12 000 items on one map before corrupting for bases, so there are some opportunities to leverage that.

It is obvious for a custom mission offering, plus if CoH/V can get player maps down they could possibly reverse one of the major complaints about the game: repetitive maps in instances.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2009, 08:26:49 AM
Using the base editor to build a full level would be :uhrr: though I'm sure there would be people that would try.

If they really wanted to create a real custom level editor that more than just a handful of people would be able to figure out they would have to build an editor along the lines of NWN, but that's a lot of work putting that kind of tool together.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Sky on February 27, 2009, 09:31:07 AM
When they left after running through the script, all there was in chat was  a ton of bitching that "wtf they wouldn't die. Lame" "I didn't get any loot"*  and "Wtf was the point of that."   I had fun, but then I was RPing back and forth with the giants as a Warrior of Innoruk should.. warning them about the light races that only wanted to slay them, trust me!
Part of it is the more corporate nature of gaming these days. Back in UO, you could wing events for the rp community and have an amazing time. But then "normal" players would gripe abotu favoritism and shit, not to mention the trouble pks caused just trying to make things chaotic for everyone, don't forget how much of UO was about ruining other people's fun. I'm so glad I got to enjoy the RP community and early Seer program before it devolved into utter shit. But players truly do not deserve good things, the few that appreciate it are surmounted by the hordes of douchebags who just want phat lewtz.

I remember the single time I ever saw a live event in EQ1, it was Innoruuk's daughter looking for a champion. The GM stuck to the script, despite events diverging from the script, it was awkward and silly. Then when she chose a champion...she chose a monk who followed quellious. I was standing there (as an inny-worshipping necro) in a crowd of necros and sks going "wtf?" It was the dumbest thing ever, but I guess at least they didn't just spawn a dragon to kill everyone.

I couldn't even enjoy the rp of it, because the GM wasn't rping, they were just following a script and ignoring the players, and the knot of rpers that were trying to play along...ignored. So, meh.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Xurtan on February 27, 2009, 10:08:50 AM
I remember the single time I ever saw a live event in EQ1, it was Innoruuk's daughter looking for a champion. The GM stuck to the script, despite events diverging from the script, it was awkward and silly. Then when she chose a champion...she chose a monk who followed quellious. I was standing there (as an inny-worshipping necro) in a crowd of necros and sks going "wtf?" It was the dumbest thing ever, but I guess at least they didn't just spawn a dragon to kill everyone.

I couldn't even enjoy the rp of it, because the GM wasn't rping, they were just following a script and ignoring the players, and the knot of rpers that were trying to play along...ignored. So, meh.

Not to defend them, but... okay, maybe a little. The issue with this is that Sony has always been pissy about anyone messing with the gods. Typical GM/Guide events don't have scripts at all, other than possible suggestions. But once you involve any of the deities, they shove a script down your throat. More than likely, they -could not- deviate from the script. For that matter it might just have been a Guide that had no clue what to do. They (Sony) won't risk anyone screwing up the 'lore'. Choosing a Monk is definitely a wtf moment though.

I miss the Rallos Zek GM events. At least they were semi-often and amusing. 


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Sky on February 27, 2009, 10:38:41 AM
Guides are semi-active in EQ2 again, btw. Oasis has a couple guides posting on the server board. I rarely read that board, though, so I missed the events they had announced. Though I'm more a fan of guides just integrating themselves into the game and becoming more of an interactive npc than having 'events'. But that's where the whole favoritism thing gets into it.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: DLRiley on February 27, 2009, 01:22:17 PM
We are a good several years behind on user created content. MMo's going to have to be played because their fun way before there is serious demand for user created content.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 27, 2009, 01:39:19 PM
This is kinda upsetting, everyone has forgotten Ryzom:

"At the end of March, a live update will deliver the Mission Architect to the CoH/V franchise and its players, marking the first time that MMO players will have the opportunity to create missions, create story arcs and then share them with others in the “City of” space, regardless of server. "

To me, this seems like a watered down version, i'm sure its because games are different and require different implementations... But i just kinda feel for the indi guys that this whole things is quite obviously patterned after (R2). While i realize its not new to games, it is rather new to MMO's, but its seems CoX is going to get the credit for that one.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Sky on February 27, 2009, 01:41:42 PM
And everyone think Clapton wrote Crossroads, and Santana wrote Black Magic Woman.

I've played CoH/V and thought it's awesome, I've never played Ryzom. Having mindshare is a big part of things.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on February 28, 2009, 01:13:31 AM
Without having deep experience of Ryzom's Ring feature (hmm, that sounds dirty) it seemed to be a lot more sandboxy than CoH/V is going to allow. CoH/V is going to allow character advancement through the MA system (with tradeable tickets instead of random rewards) while I'm not sure if what happened in the Ring followed through to the main game in Ryzom.

It's a bit of puffery, but CoH/V are the first theme park-style MMO to go this way and allow a lot of rewards (and possible exploits) for players to get from both creating and playing through MA content.

Finally, I find CoH/V fun. I don't know what kind of impact the MA system is going to have on CoH/V's player base though - not sure it will bring back that many new / exited players.


Title: Re: User Created Conent [CoH]
Post by: UnwashedMasses on February 28, 2009, 04:36:27 PM
Being able to create zones, items and tinker with all kinds of shit as an IMM/ Admin is what kept me MUDding at the same place for almost 6 years.

Hell, you could create a whole system that determines what 'item budget' is allowed based on the # of mobs, levels of them, etc for item-centric MMOs.  That'd be pretty stellar.
Yeah.  It's what kept me going for a decade.

Ditto.  Seems  like live-events were a big part of administrating a MUD, and were a part of the promise for MMOs that never really happened.  I'd like to think they could be patched in, but I suspect the industry has outgrown them.  The Circle MUD I worked in had regular "quest" events which could net you prizes and "quest points" for special gear, all driven by live human nerds who could roll with the punches.  You know, DM something.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Venkman on February 28, 2009, 06:02:10 PM
It's good to see a mainstream successful MMO try this. I just don't know that it's going to be different from every single other user-customized experience people have been thinking we're six months away from for the ten years I've been playing these games:

Users generally suck at creating compelling content. Until they're paid, and even then it's not a guarantee  :grin:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 28, 2009, 06:06:39 PM
It's good to see a mainstream successful MMO try this. I just don't know that it's going to be different from every single other user-customized experience people have been thinking we're six months away from for the ten years I've been playing these games:

Users generally suck at creating compelling content. Until they're paid, and even then it's not a guarantee  :grin:

Well, this looks highly constrained, you really only get to pick fluff things really, you cant even do mob placement, or goal placement, you just basically tell it, "at the end of the level" or "at the middle". The random mission generator takes care of a LOT of the details it seems. Your just providing the seeds.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Venkman on February 28, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
Yea. It has a sort of Sims Carnival feel, more of a wizard for customizing an experience than an NWN-like total-world builder.

Players will still find a way to screw it up though :-)

In all seriousness, this is actually making me consider CoX again. It's been a few years, and I'm jonesing for some fly-around action anyway, at least until DCUO comes out. And being able to level within missions you and friends created could (theoretically) do something for the what-I-remember-as arduous grind from the 20s onward.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Malakili on March 02, 2009, 09:34:40 AM
It's good to see a mainstream successful MMO try this. I just don't know that it's going to be different from every single other user-customized experience people have been thinking we're six months away from for the ten years I've been playing these games:

Users generally suck at creating compelling content. Until they're paid, and even then it's not a guarantee  :grin:

 Some of the best gaming I've done has been on custom maps for Valve's games, or on custom PW servers in Neverwinter Nights.   Granted, the general content will probably be awful, but there are always gems out there to be played.  The trick is to figure out how to sift through the mountains of shit to find it.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on March 02, 2009, 03:19:06 PM
I'm really looking forward to this. I've been subscribed for years and I'd really like the chance to make something new. Hopefully we can make some new maps layouts, I'm so sick of the standard layouts I can navigate with my eyes closed.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: ClydeJr on March 03, 2009, 09:38:28 AM
I remember back when I was an admin on a MUD, I tried to run a live event. It took several hours of planning to get everything set up in place for the event. I picked a crazy old man as the guy to give the player clues about the first part of the event. I cloned the guy off some other old guy mob so he was low level, had little health, and was killable. I started the event, was RPing with a bunch of players, and then one of the local jackass players came by and killed the guy. "Hur hur, hey where's the loot?" The other players bitched him out and then waited for me to respawn the guy. I told them that since the guy died, the event was over (I was a little pissed and mentally planned to rerun the event the next week with a few tweaks). So the players started their own event: PK and grief the event killer for the next week. That was a fun week.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Lantyssa on March 03, 2009, 11:29:00 AM
Our top Immorts created this annoying character to herald an upcoming zone and event.  Several of them played him, and they raised him like anyone else so we all thought he was another player.  My mortal was one of the top avatars at the time and she was a tri-class beast in a mostly dual-classed world.  Although we had a no PK policy which was well-followed, we hadn't changed the code to prevent attacks between players from the same realm yet.

So they're getting close to springing the event and this 'guy' is getting more annoying and more offensive.  Offensive enough I'm willing to risk having a year and a half of work being BalZurred down to level 1.  I walk up to him in the middle of the main square and promptly backstab him into shutting up.  I'm ready to track him down and kill him repeatedly when a god teleports me to their room and explains the joke.

All our high-levels immorts that knew about it were dying laughing at the thought of me going berserk, while all the still unknowing mortals were cheering me on, and I'm totally dying of embarrassment at giving in to my anger and being played.

After the fact, it was a fun event.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: damijin on March 03, 2009, 02:54:08 PM
ITT we remember that muds were fucking rad sometimes, and wonder where MMOs got lost along the way.

I'd like to see a game carry this user-generated content concept from it's inception. I know there's plenty of games with user-generated content, but very few MMOs that don't take the idea to stupid extremes (SL).

What would be really interesting, is if the game's servers were independent, and the content on one server was unique from that on another. Seeing how they develop over time could be really fucking cool, and satisfy that whole "Waaaaaaaah we want to affect the world for realsies" complaint.

Edit for truthfulness: also turn every server into a steaming pile of incoherent shit within 6 months. Some content gatekeepers would probably be a good idea.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Delmania on March 03, 2009, 02:58:37 PM
ITT we remember that muds were fucking rad sometimes, and wonder where MMOs got lost along the way.

I'd like to see a game carry this user-generated content concept from it's inception. I know there's plenty of games with user-generated content, but very few MMOs that don't take the idea to stupid extremes (SL).

What would be really interesting, is if the game's servers were independent, and the content on one server was unique from that on another. Seeing how they develop over time could be really fucking cool, and satisfy that whole "Waaaaaaaah we want to affect the world for realsies" complaint.

MMO "lost their way" when they went from being niche games with tiny playerbases (only a few hundred), to being large games with several thousand players online split across the various world.  The more people you have playing a game, the less likely you can ensure that UCC will fit within the context of your world.  Just like at Spore and sporn.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: skolor on March 03, 2009, 03:17:29 PM
Seems to me the consensus is that User Created Content generally isn't that great, which I've  got to agree with. Sure, occasionally something cool comes out of it, but not very often.

I do have to say though, the more admin/GM/other phrase for the same concept involvement there is, the cooler of an game it ends up being. I've played two MMO style games with gobs of it, Kingdom of Loathing and Puzzle Pirates (Shut up. It was a phase...). KoL doesn't have much direct involvement, seeing as its mostly a single player game that other people can look in on, but the way the devs got into it with the events, got active on the forums and would make appearances in chat made it super cool, and made things really unique. Puzzle Pirates wasn't quite as cool with their methodology, but it was definitely something people could get into. They would have a GM get on, and start a tournament of some sort with a crazy rare fluff item as the prize. As I remember, good fun was had all around (especially by the people who won the tournaments, the prizes often went for $250+ in game currency).

The current sharding of games into separate servers kind of ruins the effectiveness of this though. Its hard to say "This server gets this, this one gets that" and not have constant complaints about how some servers are getting unfair treatment. And if you had everything be the same, you'll either get complaints that someone got to do it first, and ruined the surprise, or there will be complaints that it was all at the same time and you didn't get an opportunity.  The only way I can think of to fix it is to make each server unique and separate, and largely driven by these kind of scripted events. While there would have to be some sort of daily grind players can do, if there were weekly random events that passed through, lasting several hours at a time (Generally targeted around that servers peak times), with unique (or somewhat unique, at least only available from the events) rewards that were not bound to a character, I think there is a lot of possibility.

But it would have to be built from the ground up with this kind of a concept.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Nebu on March 03, 2009, 03:48:56 PM
I'm surprised that tools like these aren't made available to players in beta.  You have to think that there are some VERY creative souls out there that could do some free area design.  So many people want to break into gaming that a tool like this could provide a carrot for those looking for even the smallest level of recognition. 


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on March 03, 2009, 05:32:16 PM
I'm surprised that tools like these aren't made available to players in beta.  You have to think that there are some VERY creative souls out there that could do some free area design.  So many people want to break into gaming that a tool like this could provide a carrot for those looking for even the smallest level of recognition. 
They aren't made available to players in beta because the internal tools are:

1) generally very difficult for player builders to use (read: complicated UIs)

2) too powerful (read: ripe for abuse)

3) constantly changing during development (read: players would constantly be tweaking their levels to match the latest build)

And it would require too much supervision of the player builders (e.g. all the player written stories would have to be reviewed for "coherency" to the planned storylines) during a time when developers are just trying to get the game out

Modules built with NWN, levels built with UnrealEd or other level designers, etc. are suitable for submission as part of your portfolio of work when applying for a level designer/mission designer job so it's not like there's no way for budding game world creators to express themselves now.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on March 03, 2009, 07:16:43 PM
My understanding for CoH/V is that this system meant they updated and refined a lot of their internal tools which should make the internal process of mission development easier. Except for cutscenes. Apparently those are a PITA.

Of course, CoH/V is using a toolset that I don't think is being updated anymore (Cryptic Tools v1.0 - at least, by anyone outside of NC^2, who would then probably have to give the improvements back to Cryptic, so I don't think a lot of time working on the tools would be spent). So they can be more easily 'refined' to a public state.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Delmania on March 03, 2009, 07:32:43 PM
A friend of mine told me he used to play a MUD that was based off the LPMud system.  A friend of his built a zone in which casting a spell would either cause the spell to fire correctly, fail, have double the effect, or not go off at all.  I could see something like this for a PvE game for players who prove they aren't idiots.  However, depending on the change, you'd need to apply this change to all world servers.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on March 05, 2009, 06:23:52 PM
Apparently the MA system / I14 is being supported by a boxed release (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=general&Number=13135356&bodyprev=#Post13135356) and will also coincide with the launch of the next Booster content pack. Not that it is well advertised yet, especially since I14 is still in closed beta. As such, I'm expecting this to come out May-ish, to be on the shelves ahead of ChampO's proposed launch in June.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Jimbo on March 13, 2009, 09:03:59 PM
Anyone else in the closed beta for it besides me?


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on March 13, 2009, 10:46:26 PM
I never saw any point to try out for CoH/V closed betas before since I actually wanted to be surprised when I played through new content on my main.

However, I will be open beta-ing this issue to death.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on March 15, 2009, 02:22:48 AM
Anyone else in the closed beta for it besides me?


:nda: man, :nda:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on March 17, 2009, 06:16:08 PM
Hey guess what? Open beta happened.

So, uh, here's a quick overview of what the Architect system lets you do.

Character Creation
  • Design appearances with the costume creator
  • Create threats from Minion through Archvillain
  • Pick any two powersets in the game for your creations, with three levels of difficulty to select more powers
  • Build enemy groups out of any foes in the game and anything you create

Mission Creation
Create arcs of up to 5 chained missions.
Use any contact or mob in the game for an arc contact - all arcs launched from the Architect building.
Set missions on any instance map in the game. Pick a specific one or a random pull from a large pool]
Up to 25 objectives per mission. What's an objective?
  • Clear the map/the boss room
  • Defeat a boss
  • Rescue a hostage - any mob in the game, including your own creations
  • Click an object - anything, floor-mounted or wall-mounted
  • Destroy/defend an object
  • Join up with an ally - any mob in the game, including your own creations
  • Escort a hostage/ally (currently only to mission door)
  • Take out a patrol
  • Fend off an ambush
Every mission has to have at least one objective that's mandatory for mission complete. Patrols and ambushes can't be mandatory for pathing issues. An objective can include multiples of itself (place 3 bombs, defeat 4 Freak tanks, 10 patrols) and each map generally only has so many "slots" which are used up by placing objects to click on or for special enemy spawns. Each objective will generally only use one model, but you can lump display of objectives together by giving them the same quick text, so you can place 10 different things to click on but have the nav bar counting down from "10 pieces of evidence".

Everything except collectible objects can be triggered off the completion of another objective. Anything but taking out a patrol or an ambush can be used as a trigger. Every mandatory objective that's triggered needs a mandatory trigger, so you can't have a boss show up after you try to defend 4 precious artifacts, whether you succeed or fail.

Oh yeah, and you can write like hell. Descriptions for enemies, chatter text for everything, intro/accept/success from your contact, a souvenir for the arc, and a giant variety of static emotes for special spawns. You can have a boss meditating while his flunkies are on lookout with bows drawn, f'rex.

Ah right, limitations. 3 ambushes per map, so you can't just turn on autofire and defeat a neverending stream of them.
Arcs are limited to 100K of data, which in practice means you can't go all-out with customized enemies, though a group with 9 or 10 seems to work out pretty well.
You can have as many arcs created as you want, but you can only play them in test mode, which means no rewards.
You can publish three arcs for everyone to play, and they get normal XP and "architect tickets" which can be cashed in for recipe/salvage drops etc.
If an arc is picked by the devs or receives popular acclaim, it moves on to "devs choice" or "hall of fame" status which means it rewards just like a normal mission would, drops and all. No tickets though.
And anything in the costume creator that's unlockable, in addition to certain enemies and maps, needs to be purchased with architect tickets, so even on a level 1 you could design a character with capes and auras. Generally the unlocks are pretty cheap though, a couple arcs gets you enough.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on April 06, 2009, 08:52:44 PM
This issue is apparently going to go live on the 8th.

A quote about the power of user-created content (http://www.massively.com/2009/04/06/gdc09-mission-architect-in-depth):

Quote
Before this meeting, I did a little data-mining and I realized that in the three weeks Mission Architect has been out [on the test servers], players have managed to actually surpass the amount of content we've been able to make in five years as developers. And we're still in beta!

Not all of it good, of course, but there will be diamonds among the rough.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Malakili on April 06, 2009, 10:56:36 PM

Quote
Before this meeting, I did a little data-mining and I realized that in the three weeks Mission Architect has been out [on the test servers], players have managed to actually surpass the amount of content we've been able to make in five years as developers. And we're still in beta!

Not all of it good, of course, but there will be diamonds among the rough.

This is why I've been saying that user created content is going to be the wave of the future.  I imagine there will be lots of trial and error for trying out how to implement a system properly that isn't easily abused.   However, give me an MMO with solid game mechanics and effectively endless amounts of content, and I'm in, I don't care what the setting is.

EDIT: Yes, I brushed off "solid game mechanics" there, which of course, is the trick.  Most MMOs, even if they have fantastic worlds to explore and neat looking armor, weapons, and graphics in general, play like ass.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Kageru on April 07, 2009, 03:09:02 AM

It suits CoH well given it has always had decent mechanics but not nearly enough content to make the grind bearable. In addition the city environment suits this. There's so many "doors" and areas in a city a development team can never hope to actually put something behind even a small number of them. The disadvantage is that CoH is an old game now, dev-bucks are probably limited and the idea is going to need some iteration (and possibly a game designed around it) to mature.

I do look forward to seeing it in action though.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on April 07, 2009, 02:57:54 PM

It suits CoH well given it has always had decent mechanics but not nearly enough content to make the grind bearable. In addition the city environment suits this. There's so many "doors" and areas in a city a development team can never hope to actually put something behind even a small number of them. The disadvantage is that CoH is an old game now, dev-bucks are probably limited and the idea is going to need some iteration (and possibly a game designed around it) to mature.

I do look forward to seeing it in action though.


Actually, Cryptic was using CoH to fund its other undertakings. They actually brought more people on board when ownership formally transferred over to NCSoft.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: stark on April 07, 2009, 03:39:57 PM
It suits CoH well given it has always had decent mechanics but not nearly enough content to make the grind bearable.

You can level from 1 to 50 entirely on player created missions.  Even on the test server, the rate new missions were added to the system outpaced my ability to play them.  So theorhetically you could level with no grind at all.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on April 07, 2009, 05:54:39 PM
It suits CoH well given it has always had decent mechanics but not nearly enough content to make the grind bearable.

You can level from 1 to 50 entirely on player created missions.  Even on the test server, the rate new missions were added to the system outpaced my ability to play them.  So theorhetically you could level with no grind at all.
If Kageru was referring to a "grind" Hero-side pre-MA that's not going to change with I14. Hero-side has *way* more contacts than you could possibly do going from 1-50 (unless you turn off exp), not even counting all the "duplicates" (different contacts with the same sets of missions). Villain-side definitely has many fewer contacts.



Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Ingmar on April 07, 2009, 05:57:33 PM
Yeah when I hear people talk about grind in CoX it isn't of the 'I ran out of missions/quests/whatever so I have to grind mobs to level' variety, its of the 'oh god how many more warehouses full of Freakshow til I ding' variety.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Fordel on April 07, 2009, 07:34:39 PM
Yeah when I hear people talk about grind in CoX it isn't of the 'I ran out of missions/quests/whatever so I have to grind mobs to level' variety, its of the 'oh god how many more warehouses full of Freakshow til I ding' variety.


It was the mobster faction, whoever they are.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on April 07, 2009, 07:49:28 PM
Yeah when I hear people talk about grind in CoX it isn't of the 'I ran out of missions/quests/whatever so I have to grind mobs to level' variety, its of the 'oh god how many more warehouses full of Freakshow til I ding' variety.


It was the mobster faction, whoever they are.

The Family.

That players can create custom mob groups for the custom missions should help fix this problem a bit. There are meant to be 7000 maps available too, but I'm sure the issue of map repetition is still going to be a factor until custom map creation comes in.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: stark on April 10, 2009, 05:29:59 PM
Over 10,000 published arcs in 3 days.    :-o


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Simond on April 10, 2009, 06:09:34 PM
..and 99,999 of them will suck.  :grin:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Kail on April 10, 2009, 08:22:21 PM
Over 10,000 published arcs in 3 days.    :-o
..and 99,999 of them will suck.  :grin:

You know you need some serious QA when you have a negative nine hundred percent success rate, I suppose.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on April 11, 2009, 07:12:56 AM
Over 10,000 published arcs in 3 days.    :-o

Three of those were mine!

Got a couple of positive comments about one of them. I was all   :-)
Of course my most played has 7 while the ones on the front page have hundreds. It's so easy to get buried.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Valmorian on April 12, 2009, 08:52:05 PM
Over 10,000 published arcs in 3 days.    :-o

Three of those were mine!

Got a couple of positive comments about one of them. I was all   :-)
Of course my most played has 7 while the ones on the front page have hundreds. It's so easy to get buried.

What are they called?  I resubbed for this..


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on April 12, 2009, 11:19:38 PM
I've got two sub-20 hero arcs - "Dream Paper" #1874 and "Bricked Electronics" #2180 - and one 20-30 villain arc, "The Bravuran Jobs" #5073


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on April 13, 2009, 02:54:06 AM
I got a single mish villain: 28084
A 4 mish hero: 10175
A 4 mish villain: 32560



Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on April 14, 2009, 01:02:15 PM
Arc IDs are used forever, so when people unpublish an arc its ID remains used. But that said...

In a development that should surprise no one, players have now created in 5 days more missions than the devs have made in 5 years. (http://adingworld.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/architect-creators-and-players-the-first-dates/trackback/)


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Sky on April 14, 2009, 03:02:23 PM
How many are to rescue someone's penis?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: stark on April 14, 2009, 03:37:18 PM
My experience with the mission architect has been refreshingly cock-free.

Edit:  Also over 20k cocks missions published now.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on April 14, 2009, 07:16:34 PM
There is a content filter, so you have to get creative, and a user-reporting system as well.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on April 14, 2009, 08:02:45 PM
How many are to rescue someone's penis?  :why_so_serious:

Your avatar gives this comment extra punch.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 12:08:35 AM
Having played with it, now...Man, so disappointing...No, that's not right...Underwhelming? No...Hmm.

I'm at a loss for an english word that means 'Exceeds my original expectations of what was promised in a lot of significant ways, and yet does not succeed in it's overall thrust of revitalizing a fading interest due to lack of introduction of anything really new, or at the very least empowerment to create anything new'.

All I can say is, I love the slickness of the toolset. However, if this is really a refined version of the developer tools, I finally understand why I've gotten bored. :\ And I say this as someone who loves CoV/H, and actually likes the Mission Architect.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Furiously on April 15, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
I made a mission, just to see how it was...

It's way too hard to find a mission. They need better search tools for finding missions.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 02:35:18 AM
No they don't. You've played all of them already, really.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on April 15, 2009, 02:43:53 AM
Oh no you haven't. There's some pretty strange ones out there. Like the one where all the "normal" mobs (minions/lts/bosses) are actually AVs. Yes that means with a big enough team there are like a hundred of them on the map :awesome_for_real:

Good for PLing if you have a group that can survive fighting 6 - 8 AVs at once (it's like an amped up version of the first mission in the KHTF).


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 02:54:51 AM
Okay, aside from bizarre farming corner-cases, you have, then.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on April 15, 2009, 02:57:58 AM
The thing is is they aren't really corner cases (at the moment). Hence the reason why NCsoft is patching the game almost every day to get rid of some of the worst offenders.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 03:11:48 AM
Just because they're slow on getting to the holes doesn't make them not-holes. :)

Really, though, my discontent is not about martian maps, it's more about providing user-creation tools that make possible something quantitively different than the last few years. I entertained the possibility that an MMO on the downward slant might stick it out a little (yes, Koreans, I know, but the Norcal part might have run rampant) and made some more fun.
Nothing more than opportunities for extra-witty between-mission writing and strange mob distribution is kind of a letdown.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on April 15, 2009, 03:39:55 AM
Not sure why you expected anything different. It's not like they were going to give us something on the order of the NWN toolkit where we could build our own levels, write our own scripts, events, cutscenes, etc.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on April 15, 2009, 04:06:55 AM
Early on it was indicated that even the devs hate doing cutscenes with their current tools, so they certainly weren't going to give such an ability to players.

Custom maps, however, are a must for future releases. If anything, MA reveals CoH/V's greatest weakness in an even clearer light.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 04:32:01 AM
If anything, MA reveals CoH/V's greatest weakness in an even clearer light.

This, pretty much. And custom maps will never happen.

Fuck cutscenes, any kind of break from the exact same model of every other CoX mission ever would have been a nice change. Even a wee one.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 04:41:31 AM
And it wasn't a matter of 'expected', so much as it as a matter of 'briefly allowed the cold little rock that is my heart to have a sliver of hope'.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on April 15, 2009, 09:02:56 AM
NCsoft NorthCal renames itself Paragon Studios. (http://www.paragon-studios.net/)

Funnily enough I don't think they have 45 people (http://www.paragon-studios.net/about-us/) just working on CoH/V. Unless that picture includes admin staff (and it does include CS staff).


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on April 15, 2009, 10:18:19 AM
Just because they're slow on getting to the holes doesn't make them not-holes. :)

Really, though, my discontent is not about martian maps, it's more about providing user-creation tools that make possible something quantitively different than the last few years. I entertained the possibility that an MMO on the downward slant might stick it out a little (yes, Koreans, I know, but the Norcal part might have run rampant) and made some more fun.
Nothing more than opportunities for extra-witty between-mission writing and strange mob distribution is kind of a letdown.

...uh, okay, I confess to being a little confused here.

You're complaining that the game doesn't stop being what it is and start being something else entirely? Like that one level of No More Heroes where Travis falls asleep on the subway and dreams he's inside Galaga.

I respect your right to not like the gameplay, but is it really a "weakness" of a game that you don't like it?


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Lantyssa on April 15, 2009, 11:25:02 AM
Funnily enough I don't think they have 45 people (http://www.paragon-studios.net/about-us/) just working on CoH/V. Unless that picture includes admin staff (and it does include CS staff).
Is that Llava on the left with the shades and CoV tee!?


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Nevermore on April 15, 2009, 11:57:05 AM
Could be!  Didn't he apply to work at Cryptic in some kind of lore capacity a while back?


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on April 15, 2009, 01:42:43 PM
It's reinvigorated my interest in CoH a bit. I'm enjoying making and tweaking missions.

Running other peoples missions is a bit iffy though, especially for my controller. So many eb or av downgraded into eb. Bosses and below with some status protection can make for difficult but fun fights. But ebs, especailly with tanker armors or /regen, I just can't kill.  Even if they only have melee attacks and I can immobilize them and attack from range. Just like the way they specify mission objectives, the mission breakdown should list if there is eb/av.

On the other hand, my claws/sr scrapper is finally running into some challenges and not just slicing through missions on autopilot.

I like not knowing what I'm gonna find but even though many times it's not good, I'm still finding enough diamonds to keep looking.



Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: justdave on April 15, 2009, 03:18:01 PM
...uh, okay, I confess to being a little confused here.

You're complaining that the game doesn't stop being what it is and start being something else entirely? Like that one level of No More Heroes where Travis falls asleep on the subway and dreams he's inside Galaga.

I respect your right to not like the gameplay, but is it really a "weakness" of a game that you don't like it?

I never said anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that I'm a little underwhelmed, is all.
It's not like I'm not making and playing missions in it, and enjoying it, I am. Some of the ones that aren't farm maps are fun, and I'm enjoying seeing the mob  powerset/team makeup combos that the devs would never use in a million years because they're hot and cold liquid running non-consensual sodomy from both taps.

The implementation of the MA itself is very well done, and they deserve extreme kudos for that. It's good enough I don't even care that I get disconnected when I go to start a MA mission 10% of the time.

If I had a fundamental problem with the gameplay, I wouldn't have been subbed on and off since CoV came out. It's just not going to break the cycle when I re-un-sub in a month or so from the malaise of escorting X through ambush Y in office_building_001 for the trillionth time.

EDIT: And I'm not talking about 'the game', I'm specifically talking about the Mission Architect.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: DaZog on April 16, 2009, 12:05:51 AM
Not sure if the missions are cross-server or not. If not, they're on Virtue..

#39941 Villain themed arc. It was my first one, mostly getting the hang of the toolset. The boss at the end can be a real beast to some ATs, so I'm told  :grin:

#72324 Hero-themed arc, where I tried a little more storytelling.. I'm not going to win the Pulitzer or anything like that :uhrr: But it features one of my favourite, and oft-times neglected bad guys, the Tsoo.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on April 16, 2009, 12:12:37 AM
MA is not only cross-server, it's cross-continents (Euro MA and NA MA share the same server).


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: DaZog on April 16, 2009, 12:37:54 AM
Explains why the arc ID# have gone up so fast. Hot damn.

Learn something new everyday :uhrr:


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: cironian on April 16, 2009, 11:51:42 AM
But ebs, especailly with tanker armors or /regen, I just can't kill.

So why don't you just switch the difficulty down? AFAIR if you play solo at the very lowest difficulty, EBs get further downgraded to plain bosses. Or does that not work with the MA missions?


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on April 16, 2009, 05:04:25 PM

So why don't you just switch the difficulty down? AFAIR if you play solo at the very lowest difficulty, EBs get further downgraded to plain bosses. Or does that not work with the MA missions?

I don't play anything on heroic once I slot do's at lvl 12, so I'm not sure what happens to ebs.

The ma uses the task force system, so to make difficulty changes apply to an already spawned mission I'd have to log out long enough for the mission to reset. About 5 mins iirc, had to that once on a synapse tf when we lost a bunch of people. Between logging out and starting over vs. just dropping and moving on, I'd just drop and move on.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on April 16, 2009, 07:52:27 PM
Everything does get downgraded, but AVs turn into EBs and go no lower. As such, you can still face a heap of EBs if the designer is "gifted" enough.

I had an EB fight last night with my Blaster where he started running at 90% health. Whee.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Kageru on April 28, 2009, 12:21:13 AM

Another attempt and another miss. Plus an example of why we can't have nice things.

I've done a number of missions which all involve an open plain, huge clumps of I assume underpowered mobs (Rikti communication officers seem popular) and massive XP gains to be had. Interactive objects are being used to spawn yet more XP dispensing mobs. As a result people are forming large groups and farming their little hearts out in story-less and uninteresting missions with amusing flavor text like "go kill them all". The MA clearly isn't able to balance challenge in any meaningful way although I am surprised it allowed only a single opponent type to be designated. That seems like an obvious oversight.

I doubt a solution can be automated but having some mechanism of flagging the mission as broken / exploiting and then disabling it when enough concerns are raised, till someone can cast an eye over it, would at least reduce the damage the game is taking in terms of the levelling curve being blown. Not that I mind per-se, since I consider the game to be on an inevitable decline I just wanted to see the higher level game before they turned the lights out. So it's actually quite convenient for me.

Of course the most likely solution is they'll just massively nerf the gains from running MA missions.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on May 01, 2009, 11:30:31 AM

Another attempt and another miss. Plus an example of why we can't have nice things.

I've done a number of missions which all involve an open plain, huge clumps of I assume underpowered mobs (Rikti communication officers seem popular) and massive XP gains to be had. Interactive objects are being used to spawn yet more XP dispensing mobs. As a result people are forming large groups and farming their little hearts out in story-less and uninteresting missions with amusing flavor text like "go kill them all". The MA clearly isn't able to balance challenge in any meaningful way although I am surprised it allowed only a single opponent type to be designated. That seems like an obvious oversight.

I doubt a solution can be automated but having some mechanism of flagging the mission as broken / exploiting and then disabling it when enough concerns are raised, till someone can cast an eye over it, would at least reduce the damage the game is taking in terms of the levelling curve being blown. Not that I mind per-se, since I consider the game to be on an inevitable decline I just wanted to see the higher level game before they turned the lights out. So it's actually quite convenient for me.

Of course the most likely solution is they'll just massively nerf the gains from running MA missions.

You can make a custom enemy group out of any enemy in the game.

Comms officers are an enemy in the game.

You can make a custom enemy group out of only comms officers.

Likely nerfs to address this problem:

- scale back comms officers to minion XP when specifically used in a custom group
- scale back comms officers to minion XP in general
- disable comms officers from being used in a custom group, in the same way that you can't have 10 sky raider engineers and their FF bubbles following you around


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Kageru on May 01, 2009, 08:39:56 PM

It's got to be a bit more deep than that. If you can make groups consisting of only a single mob type then farming missions will be made with the weakest mob available. Either they need all their mobs being roughly balanced in challenge (good luck, they weren't designed for that), they need to nerf XP in general or they need to make each mob "pollute" its pool by bringing in reinforcements from a similar type of unit.

Ran into another nice one using "Holo trainers" who have no ranged attack at all. The mission also had two allied arch-villains. So the character who built it would fly above the mobs nuking with almost complete immunity while the allied NPC's finished off mobs for her. Although as a whole the map failed because its dependence on PC flight meant most of the group quit leading to less DPS/XP for the creator.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on May 01, 2009, 11:52:21 PM
Freakshow is another group that is popular in MA because they offer bonus XP - they've got a self-healing, self-rez power that allegedly makes them more difficult.

At some point - and I think it will be some point soon - there will be a massive purge of MA creations. It will be a mercy killing.

Don't get me wrong - I've played some good missions. But I've seen some absolutely awful ones too.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on May 02, 2009, 02:44:04 AM
From what I've read, on the test server they've given all MA mobs a ranged attack. They're also changing the selection of powers in the standard-hard-extreme scale. This has been met with mixed reviews as people have to re-balance their mobs, and the mandatory ranged attack isn't always in keeping with custom themes.

Not sure how well that would work but they could ban people from making missions after they have one deleted for farming. But that seems too draconian a move for the CoH guys.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on May 02, 2009, 03:07:59 AM
Comm Officer exp is down to minon levels as well.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Kageru on May 02, 2009, 03:13:51 AM

I assume that's been hotfixed? When I logged in a while back atlas park was suddenly quiet.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on May 02, 2009, 05:31:31 PM
Not as of yesterday. I haven't done my usual Comm Officer farm today, though.



Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on May 04, 2009, 04:55:41 AM
Sometime between early Sunday morning and late Sunday evening they purged a whole ton of farming missions. Rikti Comm Officers are still giving LT-level exp (I made my own Arc with them, for testing purposes only of course) but they got rid of all but a handful of those maps.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Zetor on May 04, 2009, 05:46:36 AM
I messed a bit around with COV during the free reactivation weekend with my guild... the arcs are surprisingly fun and rewarding [we mostly played the 'AE choice' ones, so YMMV], pretty varied, and way-way-way more accessible than other typical task forces / mission series. We might actually leave LOTRO behind for this...  :why_so_serious:

A somewhat-related question: did they boost xp gain (or reduce xp requirements to level)? The 5 of us villains in the 38-40 range basically got a level after only 2 hours of AE missioning, which was rather unusual compared to a few years ago when we last played. Of course a lot of that is from rest xp... but still, the xp payout at the end of custom arcs was massive.


-- Z.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Glazius on May 04, 2009, 06:28:07 AM
I messed a bit around with COV during the free reactivation weekend with my guild... the arcs are surprisingly fun and rewarding [we mostly played the 'AE choice' ones, so YMMV], pretty varied, and way-way-way more accessible than other typical task forces / mission series. We might actually leave LOTRO behind for this...  :why_so_serious:

A somewhat-related question: did they boost xp gain (or reduce xp requirements to level)? The 5 of us villains in the 38-40 range basically got a level after only 2 hours of AE missioning, which was rather unusual compared to a few years ago when we last played. Of course a lot of that is from rest xp... but still, the xp payout at the end of custom arcs was massive.

-- Z.

Actually, rest XP doesn't apply to architect missions. What AE cuts down on is the need to run somewhere else to get in on the mission. Since a few months ago, lieutenants and bosses have had their XP boosted, as has everything after 25 or so.

The payout at the end is just five missions' worth of end-mission bonus all lumped together, and I think boosted a bit for later missions and for missions with complicated objectives.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: PalmTrees on May 04, 2009, 03:29:22 PM
A somewhat-related question: did they boost xp gain (or reduce xp requirements to level)? The 5 of us villains in the 38-40 range basically got a level after only 2 hours of AE missioning, which was rather unusual compared to a few years ago when we last played. Of course a lot of that is from rest xp... but still, the xp payout at the end of custom arcs was massive.


-- Z.

They did some  'xp-smoothing' a while back. So, yeah, xp flows a little faster than it used to.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on May 06, 2009, 03:28:49 AM
Positron appears to say that the people who talked to him during a live event don't like farming. So no farming missions, or face character deletion or account bannings. (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Dev&Number=13427300&bodyprev=#Post13427300) And the forum goes wild with nerdrage.

Quote
• Players that have abused the reward system egregiously may lose benefits they have gained - leading up to and perhaps including losing access to the characters power-leveled in this fashion.

• Currently, some badges are being modified, and some may be removed from the game entirely. The list of changes being made to the MA badge system is not final yet, but you will be made aware when we have a concrete plan.

• Players who knowingly use an exploit when creating an arc, run the risk of having access to MA suspended, or worse- depending on the severity of the action, their account banned.


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: Trippy on May 06, 2009, 06:52:47 AM
Dup:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16861.0


Title: Re: User Created Content [CoH]
Post by: UnSub on May 06, 2009, 09:50:43 AM
I'm doing well today.  :oh_i_see: