f13.net

http://www.warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=397

If you scroll down in the Grab Bag article there's a section on high level armor sets.  It appears to be Mythic's way of gating the high level content.  In order to take on the end game King encounter I need a set of Excelsior armor.  To get the Excelsior armor I need to repeatedly farm the sub-boss PQs in a contested city.  In order to farm the sub-boss PQs I need the Darkpromise or Invader armor from repeatedly farming the Lost Vale dungeon or Invasion PQs.  In order to farm Lost Vale or the Invasion PQs I need the Sentinel or Conqueror armor set from farming high level city dungeons or from capturing a Fortress.  In order to farm the high level city dungeons or capture a Fortress I need the Bloodlord or Annihilator armor set from farming Bastion Stair or from random drops in T4 RvR.   :uhrr:

Now how much each armor set really helps for each encounter remains to be seen, but I can just see the messages now:

"Forming Warband for King encounter, looking for more peeps, must have Excelsior armor, pst!"

 :ye_gods:

FUCKING FUCK FUCK FUCK!

Making PvP success about gear quality is the most stupid fucking idea ever!  Damnit, I hate WoW for some of the shit they introduced.

Gear should be easily accessed and should have little (less than 10%) influence on pvp outcomes.  Damnit, the hardcore keep ruining these games (and their development) for the 90% of us that like to come home from work and have a distraction. 

Yeah I just got done reading that. Good lord, that's a ton of grinding and I suspect once the tweaks are made you're going to need that highest set to have a chance at sacking the capital city.

But hey remember "Warhammer is a PVP game first, PVE game second!". Yeah right, once the masses figure this out even more people are going to say the hell with it and play something else.

There's a reason they crammed a horrible fuck-off level grind into their game right before release.  They didn't want WAR to be out for only a week before someone pantsed their endgame and everyone saw its tiny dick.

Haha, some of you didn't unsub before the first month was up.  I guess the timing on that bit of news was pretty good, then.

hahahahahah

i guess that's that

I personally invite whoever thought this was a good idea to eat a dick.

More like ripping the pants off your date to discover that she is really a he.  

I really thought WAR was going to be the game that you could log on and level seamlessly and enjoyably from 1-the end.  While you certainly can do this, you are treated as a second class citizen for doing so.  

What audience was Mythic hoping to grab?

DAoC, they would have known better than to put, um, master levels in the game.   If you ran the company, though, would you be happy with the same audience that DAoC got?  If you wanted a bigger slice of the pie you might be looking at that big gorilla and raiding.

*sigh*

There is a group of people who are convinced that a PvP oriented game will always be niche, so this decision should not be a huge surprise *, but if you are going to compete with the gorilla you better have awesome bananas.

* I would understand the calls of bait and switch, should they arise.

I can say, having done a fortress fight and locked zones, that ward gear is essential to surviving the massive nukes you get there. But having to get several more levels of ward gear as the encounters scale to the assault on the king is mind boggling.

What happened to PVP gear was "good enough"?

Nice, thanks for posting this. You saved me some CASH!

Wow... If this is true:

1.  I am done defending this game.
2.  I owe Cevik an apology.

Stick a fork in it, I'm done.

If this gear is used for just PVE encounters, and if this gear is simply in the game to give PVE people something to do, some goals to get good looking armor, and if this gear does not effect RvR ...

Then I'm ok with it.

Would anyone know if this is true?

What is this cock block nonsense?  They keep zigzagging all over the map as to what they want the game to be.  If it's supposed to be a casual fast-paced PVP game, then why  put in the level grind right before launch and then further exacerbate the problem by putting in a fucking gear-up requirement.  

God damn it, I had hoped we were moving past the mandatory farm gear to eventually have fun school of game design.

It doesn't matter. The idea that you need a set or even part of a set or any items at all that have random chances of dropping to access content is so beyond stupid, that there's just no words in the english language to describe it. Actually, there is. T-Minus 1 Month Until this Forum Hits the Graveyard.

The end game for RVR is to fight the capital leader. Which you can't do with out the many sets of PVE gear.

/Boggle @ Mythic

My heartfelt condolences to all who are still playing after this.

Maybe they really did drink the kool-aid that they were competing with WoW on WoW's release, and not WoW currently.

Man, having to gather a fire resist set to get through the Molten Core cockblock was SO MUCH FUN I WANTED TO DIE.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH

They start the cockblock the moment you hit 40. What a bunch of gibbering assholes.

It seems you do need this for endgame, so it fails, but to suggest a point...

If you wanted to attract both PvP and PvE users I've always thought you could put in ways to farm for PvE gear with snazzy looks that really thrill the mor... people who like PVE, and at the same time not require this stuff for the PvP end of it.   A game with two endings, both done well, would gain more targ... people, and that's a good thing.

Yes, this affects RvR.  All that nonsense in the original post leads up to the King encounter.  The rewards for the King encounter are pieces of the Sovereign armor set.  This set is supposed to be the end all be all of RvR armor and requires RR73-80 just to equip it.

What's that saying about two birds or some shit?

After that happens I guess we can keep a thread like "Warhammer 2008 (insert new years as needed) to keep all the discussions in one spot on the main board?

As far as an impact to me, this isn't going to drive my guild out of the game but it will pour cold water on our willingness to roll ALT's. We don't like Wotlk one iota, so we'll either play WAR or nothing until SWG:TOR or GW2 releases.

Game over man, game over!

Fuck. I just bought this game last week. If I wanted poopsock PvE, I'd play WoW. Christ, that's fifty bucks wasted. So much for getting back into MMOs. I could have bought Dead Space instead.

I guess the reality is so idiotic, so wrong, so 'didn't we learn this lesson last time', so so ... I'm in denial.

They should've just gated it with RR levels. I can understand not being able to do things because I'm not high enough. I could've COPED with that. Would've forced people into RvR situations. But grinding for armor. HAHAHA. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA. NO.

Adding grind to a game where people have already been complaining about the grind seems like a good idea to me.

Wow Phildo you basically posted exactly what I was typing.











Dick.

The black orc armor is pretty bitchin' though. :drill:

Too bad everyone in the endgame will look exactly the same. How awesome.

Everyone looks the same now.  So by then we should be used to it.

Even before this game came out of beta I was questioning some peoples logic about the end game "it's all about pvp" they said but wait, once you take a city and run the people out the ENDgame is all warbands and PVE king smashing and pq's. How could people not have seen this coming?

I guess people wanted desperately to believe WAR was a pvp game and not just a diku clone, you should have known better.

Man, Wrath is going to eat their fucking lunch now and I won't shed a single tear.

This is absolutely fucking boneheaded. There's just no way of spinning this.

Fuck you, Mythic. Fuck you.

Everybody get your vent mic ready, cause we're gonna be grinding some high level PQs.  No more welfare epics for me. 

When do they introduce resilience?

SO MJ or gaute? who wins the "most clueless dev" award?

My contempt of this game has been vindicated.  Excuse me whilst I go fan myself with the wad of cash I saved by not purchasing this piece of crap.

Gaute didn't know how to design a game. That's clueless.

Mark knows how to design a game, he's obviously just got a serious case of the pre-Wrath super-retardation pox.

Well, the good news is that there's another piece of evidence that anyone trying to compete with WoW by creating a simulacrum of its gameplay and taping some tassels onto it is going to eat shit.

Please, dear god, start making a bunch of relatively inexpensive niche titles that don't play like WoW.  INNOVATE, MOTHERFUCKERS.

"GOD ILLIDAN IS SUCH SHIT THIS LAG IS AWFUL WHY DOES ANYONE PLAY THIS GAME FUCK YOU BLI$$ARD"

Sorry, couldn't resist myself.

Commencing ToA v2.0 in 10... 9... 8...

Chosen LFG altdorf raid 3/8 annhilator set

Looks like I chose the wrong game to play while drinking, in my stupor I signed up for a six month sub which it looks like I'll never use...

Hey, I'm not playing WoW much right now, either :D  Queueing for 30 2s arena matches, automagically losing 26 of them due to 'instance not found', getting into only one with my partner only to find that we had no opponents, and winning only one as a 1v1, the results of which were a -18 for my opponent and a -14 for me... that did the trick.

But, at least WoW will be fun enough to play once the lag clears.  Can't say the same for WAR : (

I quit WoW when BGs came out and I won't be going back. I saw those fucking "dailies" things they came up with since I quit and it made up my mind that that was one game I would not return to.

Guess it's back to single player RPGs after my month of WAR. We'll see, though. I'm still having some fun, so who knows.

But really... required armor sets in a PvP game? wtf... /sigh

I'm done with WAR over this.  I can only take so much stupid.

WHA Forums cross-post, Re-crossing-post, link, Thing.. (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165691)

Looks like they just integrated the ToA into release this time.  I can hear the meetings they had now...

"If I we put it in the game from the beginning, they won't complain about the PvE grind being necessary for the PvP endgame!"

Perhaps we're over-reacting, but it certainly doesn't sound good.

Guys!  Guys!  We're recruiting in EvE!   :drill:

Edit: How shameless of me.

Its not much better over at the Vault Forums (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109137420/p1/?33).

Go die.  I love numbers, I love space, I love economics, I love 'worldy' games, I love PvP and competition in almost any form, and that game fucking sucks. 
It was really good at tricking me into thinking it was fun, though, I'll give it that.

There's an expansion coming out for LOTRO soon, think I'm going to check that out.

Apparently, people are saying that all of the above, can also be gained from RvR things. I have no idea of this is true, and the grab bag dosn't mention it.

Yes. FUCKITY FUCK SHIT FUCK.

PVP != PVE

Not only should success in one NOT rely on doing the other, but in a supposedly PVP-focused game, requiring PVE gear to do all the content is beyond fucking retarded.

EDIT: To add a not where it really should have been.

Apparently all but the last set, the set required for the King thingamabob.  To get the best RvR gear in the game you have to take down king with ward thingy aror that can only be gained from fighting computer bosses.   At least that's the best I can take away from it.

Doesn't matter where it's gained.  If it's still gained from random gold bag drops that only 1-2 people out of 20+ get, that makes for a LOT of farming.

Just what do they mean by required? They start off by saying that it lowers damage taken in dungeons/encounters. Ok, PVE resilience. I get that.

They then go on to say that it is required to do encounter XYZ. Will I not be allowed in without it? Will I be taking so much damage, I'll be useless without it?

How much of it do I need? Will I have to continually do my PQs and garbage dungeons for the full set before I can continue?


And if I physically cannot enter the next tier without the gear:
Why would they not do it by renown rank?
Why would they not do it by renown rank?
Why would they not do it by renown rank?
Why would they not do it by renown rank?
Why would they not do it by renown rank?

Heh, even if it wasn't true before I bet it will be soon.  Mythic will be scrambling in damage control mode and will probably do just that to try to placate the masses.

If you happen to get the gold loot bag in the PQ roll when you take a keep. Now think about how often that actually happens.

Alrighty then. Eve really pissed in your wheaties huh?

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled WAR madness!

Damage control doesn't matter anymore. They can't do enough in a short enough time to warrant a second chance. OH WELL.

From my reading, its not required, its just almost necessary or your in for some tough fights, because you don't have the -50% to what-ever-the-fuck-resilience-like-damage they toss out.

From Mark's blog:

Seb says “Please never do a ToA like expansion in WAR ! ”
I think I’d rather shoot myself in the head than do another ToA.


So... uh... I'll be watching the news.

I'm more likely to fuck a supermodel than win a gold bag from a keep lord.

What a disaster.

Ain't no way to spin this.

It said the sets offer a specific damage reduction for specific boss fights. Like each piece of the Execlisor gear offers 10% damage reduction when fighting the city ruler.

On a side note, lol at all The Usual Suspects looking awesome in their tier gear and Order looking like a bumbitch.

Oh...

Sounds like Guild Wars is right for you

God that is such epic fail.

Specific resist damage against specific types of encounters - I can only assume that resistance isn't really used in any other encounter? Does that mean I'd be trying to farm ONE SPECIFIC SET only for ONE SPECIFIC FIGHT after which the armor will be retired for the next set?

Goddamnit, that is super-duper, drooling mongoloid, asshat-wearing, fuck your sister, inbred, cross-eyed, shitstained, locked in the closet as a child retarded.

Mark... Paul... all you fuckers at Mythic. You're already killing my desire to play with the shittastic design of Talabecland and the t3 grind. Do you really really want to keep pushing my resolve with this? It's like you want me to quit. Me personally, just me. You all hate me don't you?

I can't stop laughing.  This is just fucking clownshoes.

You need to be this tall to have fun.  

GAH!

In a way it's nice to be off the fence.  My ass was getting sore.

Time to get back into Eve and gird myself for the, ugh, speed nerf.

Shoehorning PvE raid progression mechanics into a PvP environment where the content will not always be available. Smart!

Man the WHA and Vault network forums are mostly the same reaction. There are a couple of vaultards who are trying to downplay the importance of this year, like one of the DAOC team leads, and trying to make us all feel better because it will be a long time before everyone has the pieces.

I am with Schild though, this blunder is going to make WotlK eat War's lunch. The guilds with this gear will blow through fortress lords, city lords, etc, and the folks without it will be blown apart by NPC's and 3 real life players defending the keep.

I can say that this will probably be the 2nd weekend in a row where we have an epic thread (or three) to watch.

The nail in the coffin is, you know this gear will be distributed via PQ style loot bag distribution.  So not only do you have to have an entire raid-size Warband to do the content, but you'll have to do it over and over until everyone has the gear.  Plus, there'll inevitably be those people with lucky dice that will begin to get duplicate gear while the unlucky douchebags that aren't geared yet get the shaft from the RNG yet again.

Just imagine your guild conquering a T4 keep, nearly able to take on the king and only needing a few more pieces and ten you keep losing rolls to random newbies coming in on their own.

Just imagine.

At least in WOW you are grinding, say Kara or even AV which is reasonably fun sometimes. 

Public Quests?  Grindorama nightmare.  I am NOT playing a game where I have to do a mobkill spree like in the PQs. 

Sooooooooo what's next on the agenda?  Darkfall?  LOTRO Moria? 

WOTLK?

Maybe there will be a "No High Armor Set/No Capital City Server" poll on vn boards soon.

Too late.

Since when do games get second chances?

Edit: Maybe if this had happened in say, MARCH, I could've been like, OK they have time to fix this before say, the christmas rush or a WoW expansion. But haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, apparently fingers can't be snapped to make stupid fucking amateur hour design decisions go away.

Missed the green, sorry.

Well, at least now it won't be only on WOW that you can see, "looking for high progression raiding guild".  (http://www.izzyoz.com/funnies/21-farmer.jpg)

my eyes burn at the following:


.....I...I hate you mythic.

nothing like grind to anal any chance of playing a serious pvp game.

 :awesome_for_real:

Sums it up.

And my tank says "WTF?" to that.

I suspect that the greatest issue with this news is the interpretation of the word "required".  I don't think Missy really meant "...which is required for City High Level Dungeons and Fortress encounters."  The fact that people have already done Fortress captures without this armor suggests that it will help but is not actually required to complete these elements of the game.

Honestly, I don't see it as much of a problem at all.  The game has always been about RvR, not PvP.  The ultimate goal of RvR has always been the taking of the opponent's capital city by killing the King - that should not come as a surprise to anyone here.  That encounter is a combination of PvP and PvE but is all RvR, as are the Sub-Boss PQs, Invasion PQs, Fortresses, and Tier 4 RvR that can be used to gather the other pieces of armor sets.

So, you engage in RvR the same way you normally would.  You go out and kill people, take Fortresses, do the Invasion PQs to get access to the city, run the Sub-Boss PQs, and eventually kill the King.  I think the likelihood of everyone getting a piece of armor from that is minimal at best which is another point in favor of the argument that it cannot possibly be "required".

So if you do a lot of what you would normally be doing anyway, you'll eventually acquire some full sets of armor which will give you an advantage and make your character more desired in groups.  And yes, eventually, there may be elitist groups out there that refuse to admit anyone who is not leet like them, but who gives a shit?  Fuck 'em and go about your business doing all the above with people who are not assholes.

I think the armor set system is designed to encourage and reward RvR, not to gate it.  I think people are just reading too much into "required."

shut the fuck up. The armour DOES NOT HELP RVR. ITS JUST % DMG REDUCTION FROM NPC.

Making something impossible or UNFUN without having the proper gear pretty much = required.

Making something more difficult for people who haven't bullshit grinded through crap content is pretty much the dumbest fucking design decision I've heard in a LONG, LONG TIME.

you can justify grind, but you can also justify butt sex in prisons.

This armor mitigates damage done by NPC's in Fortress/City siege situations. Without it you can be blasted to oblivion by those NPC's, and the player damage on top of that just helps to speed you on your way to the respawn spot. These tards over at the Vault and coming here who are downplaying this because "it doesn't affect players damaging one another" are missing the point. When you engage in these fights you are fighting players + NPC's, and without said gear the NPC's hit you a fuckton harder.

I mean a Fortress Lord can hit you for 4 K damage right off the bat without WARD gear, toss in the real player damage too, and its "bye bye, cya at the rez stone!".

Ward gear matters.

Well if anyone can stand reading VN I was able, I think, to get the answer I was looking for.

I don't think it's as bad as I originally assumed, but that's just my personal preference.  It's hard to design the end of an RvR game without making it seem like an FPS.  I'm not sure I liek what they came up with, and I'm not sure I believe this so called PvE gear won't be useful (or overpowered) in end game RvR, but I won't be there for a while ... or ever.

Yes, best mispelling evar. Man, well I'm glad I'm a lazy asshole who kept dithering about picking this up.

EDIT: Haha, and it hits the graveyard mid-post!  :drill:

And apparently you can buy some of it off of renown merchants, with the best pieces reserved for some dumb quest.

Not arguing though, they blew the RvR is everything point of the game.  Not sure what they were thinking.

What they were thinking is that they could bait and switch mmo players into thinking they were getting a pvp alternative when in reality what you got was a pvp barrier to 'old' wow style raids, gear cockblocks and all.  You think these armor sets were made magically overnight?

*SNAP*

POOF

KILLED A GAME WITH GEAR.

See, they can do it.

Eh, you're being a bit hasty here.  May be dead for some but still pretty active and the conversation about it will likely be for a bit longer.

Don't be such a baby.

This is disappointing but a magnitude less important than the fact that RvR is totally fubared. 

Hey guys, don't burn me @ the "steak" (heh, for all you Lum fans out there...) for asking this, but didn't MJ say in another thread around here somewhere that they were retooling ALL the PvP gear and that MJ couldn't just snap his fingers and make it happen overnight?

I dunno, both my wife and I have picked this title up, and are enjoying it immensely...  We'll just have to see how it pans out, I suppose.

 :popcorn:

And Rasix refuses to "Call it". The senior doctor will surely be pissed!

I tend to agree though, too much conversation still to Call It already.

Too much conversation means one of two things:

1. The game is in the grip of death.
2. The game just came out and is fucking awesome.

Somehow there was a grey line in this situation where Mythic felt they should apply the sharpie.

All snark aside, if you're having fun with the game then your best bet is to ignore all the various forums, just play the game and have fun.

True for just about every game, forever.  Primarily, people post on game forums because the pertinent game is, at that moment in time, less fun than posting on a fucking forum.

Edit: (or, because those people's jobs aren't demanding enough).

Not always true.  I post on the OFFICIAL City of Heroes forums about all kinds of stuff and I still enjoy that game quite a bit, despite its flaws.  I even post there outside of work hours! (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif)

I am not old enough to understand the idea of a game not being "a second job."

I think this was like, the point.

I earn money at my job. I pay MMOG services to entertain me. You should learn the difference, twatmouth.

This.

So, do you use a sock or something more modern, like Depends?

Mythic, why you gotta make me hit you?

I'll never understand the work in a game mentality.  Some day someone will come along and develop a game that rewards you for having fun and I'm convinced the idiot masses will complain that it's too much fun and the game will fail.

This has already happened.

Since people have killed Fortress Lords and City PQ Bosses before Mythic wanted them to, Mythic has boosted the hell out of both of those mob types. Currently a Fortress Lord will clear a couple of 24-character warbands in 15-20 seconds doing 4000-5000 damage a hit and critting for 8500+.

Yes, those sets are now required.

Edit - Fuck, this thread moves fast. Graveyard + "Fuck you, casual gamer, earn your e-peen gear" mouthbreather. Guess I'll rearrange my furniture and play Dawn of War this weekend.

They made the encounter more fun!  You just haven't worked hard enough to enjoy it.

You know what would be cool? If the armour had levels, you could call it "Armour Levels", no wait, "Master Levels"! Then you could grind PvE to level up the armour too! That would be fucking cool!

Has this been parsed out of the IGN thread?


-Rena_Lanford, DAoC Team Lead

Wow. I guess that lack of an official community also means a total lack of people to train devs on how to communicate.

Awesome, for real.

My favorite words in the English language are "I told you so".

So I am glad once again to have a chance to use those words. This is pretty much *precisely* what I was trying to tell people during the beta who were saying, "Don't worry, the game isn't gear-dependent, and it won't be in the future, it's not designed that way." Gear dependent cockblocks are what devs do when they're cornered and have run out of ideas, or where the ideas they do have will be too expensive or too difficult to execute.

oh rite

http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109137420/p3

Apparently she's not a team lead, but some volunteer. Who cares, name is red and it's HILARIOUS.

I can't even understand half the posts on those boards.  Are they in English?

I remember Rena_Lanford from back when I played DAoC.  He was a wanker back then, too.  Despite the red name though, DAoC Team Leads aren't actually employed by Mythic so they aren't really devs, iirc.

Edit: they're volunteers picked as 'advocates' for a particular class. ie: ranger, paladin, whatever.  Even if they don't start off as assholes, I think Mythic constantly ignoring all their recommendations eventually turns all of them into douchebags of some kind or other.

Volunteer that represents Mythic (http://www.camelotherald.com/teamleads/tl_available.php).

Volunteers should go in the bad decisions thread also. How. Fucking. Stupid.

I haven't the slightest.

Reminds me a little of a conversation I got into with a developer about why he didn't let some of his team leads working on particular classes in one MMOG speak directly on the official forums to the people having problems with the class design.

"To be honest", said the dev, "some of them can't really express themselves coherently. Also a couple of them would almost certainly piss off aggrieved players even more, because they kind of hate all the people who are complaining about the classes."

Don't blame Blizzard, Mythic should already fucking know better after TOA.

Blizzard made highly gear-dependant pvp mainstream.  I blame them.

I took a quick visit over to look at that VNboard thread , and found this nugget in one of the last posts

"/bravo Mythic for a well design system to keep us busy, it's ok if they don't get it yet, eventually they will."

And no , they aren't being sarcastic , they are genuinely trying to say that's a good thing


 :uhrr:

Didn't Lum say (when we were naysaying in the beta discussion) that Mythic had "learned its lesson" about TOA?

It didn't, apparently. But here's the important thing: I don't think that's because of mule-headedness or stupidity or anything I can simply blast as unnecessary. It's deeper than that. It's because gear cockblocks are almost inevitably built into a DIKU-style MMOG's DNA. As a design solution to problems that otherwise would take expensive, risky innovation, various grindathons are almost an inevitable quick fix. Even very well-designed games (WoW) sometimes go way, way down that pathway when they're looking at a very complicated and expensive set of alternatives.

Done, I'm going to play excel instead.

So.

1) They have no accurate idea how fast these sets will be achieved (probably quickly by the uber-guilds) and
2) They have no quantitative idea of the effect it will have on RvR.  

Acting with a lack of knowledge is probably really illustrative of their culture.  It's a "wait and see" attitude.   But it's also really lazy thinking because it assumes you can't plan or test in advance.  And since this is a live service they obviously don't worry about impacting customers.  It's a bit of group-think in the MMO dev world I keep seeing year after year.

Woah, how long have these been around?  That reminds me all too much of Age of Conan's super volunteer forum moderator squad.

I wonder if the invisible hand of EA is involved in this.  Even Jacobs can't be this stupid, can he?

This decision was probably made before EA bought Mythic.

Team leads have been around a long time.

I gathered from the VN thread, after asking a simple question 5 times, that no one really knows.   I don't believe the answers given except for perhaps the wards, but the idea that wards are not needed after Mythic boosted the npc's is rather silly.  We will see ... or they will see, I won't be there for 6 months if at all and if I decide it would be fun to go on a city siege and i get nuked for 1000 and am looking at the res box the rest of the fight, well, that kind of sort of doesn't sound like fun.

Nancy had a headstart on the douchbaggery though.

Tee hee, a Nancy post! Here! I can die and go to heaven.  :drill:

zomg schild quoting nancy, my worlds, they collide

I've been enjoying the PvP here quite a bit more then WoW (up to and including T3, T4 sucks with the magus / engineer electromagnet thing).  However, the last thing I want to do in this game is get into a massive gear grind which is exactly what this is looking like.  Right now the endgame looks to be more raiding of the King, PQ crap then actual fights.  Considering I hate the current approach now in T2 and T3 of having to roll on the small chance of a gold bag from a Keep Lord (PvE in my opinion) to finish my "PvP" armor set for that tier, the idea of having to do more PvE for virtually all of my set pieces in T4 and beyond is just crap.  Think I will re-install WoW and play around in the Halloween / WotLK events some, this is just looking stupid here.

Requiring gear also introduces the VERY FUN need to retain the people with that required gear in order to field your warbands successfully.  Even if the player is a total asshat, he's got his +50 bonus to Whatever The Hell, so we can't get rid of him!  I am having LOTS OF FUN now!

(I hope I'm exaggerating the point above.  No, really.  I really hope it's not late endgame WoW raiding bad.)

Chance of a "no no no , we didnt mean it to sound like it would be hard to get , they will be easily obtainable" post ?

Someone just spammed #darkcrag trying to sell his level 40 DoK. He mentioned he had 3 pieces of two different sets, and then 2 pieces of a 3rd set.

Maybe it's easier to get than we assume.

I think it was before they upped the power of the bosses.  Now... I'm not sure how tough it is. 

This isn't the right 'told-you-so' for what those people (or at least me) thought they were arguing about. The sort of gear dependency I was talking about personally in those threads was the difference between gear in DAOC and gear in WoW; while it mattered in both, in DAOC once you were at cap everyone kind of sat around the same territory stat-budget wise, as opposed to WoW where it keeps spiraling up to infinity.

This is just a out-of-nowhere bizarro you-must-have-an-Onyxia-cloak-for-Nefarian style thing, which isn't what I was talking about at all, and is, if anything, amazingly far more stupid than what the argument was about back then.

Does anyone have a link to these sets and their piece/set bonuses?  I think it's time to really start crunching numbers to determing the magnituded of the effect this will have on RvR (rather than just the 50% PvE bonus). 

Rena is the current Animist Team Lead for DAoC.  Class TLs are given VIP status on the Vault and Rena just happened to change his colors to Red.  He probably shouldn't be allowed to use those colors, but whatever.  At any rate, there's a part of the TL program that is successful and has worked very well over the years.  Unfortunately what goes on with that part of the program will never be known to the public and they only get to see the less successful part of the program (TL Reports) and the TL interactions on the Vault and other forums.  The successful part (IMO) are Mythic's internal forums where Team Leads discuss game design with the DAoC developers.  I was the Infiltrator Team Lead for a few years before retiring from that position.  Retired class TLs are allowed to continue to participate on Mythic's internal forums, they simply no longer represent a specific class and are no longer asked to communicate with their class's community.  I'm still active as a retired Class TL on their forums and continue to enjoy the program.  I do agree however that asking the Class TLs to represent Mythic on external forums isn't the greatest idea.

I loved this game because it seemed a casual, fun MMO with great pvp.  Then I hit T3 and Tor Suckcock and I soured.

But all day at work I looked forward to playing  my SH and thinking FOR SURE Mythic would fix the game.

Instead I read this horse-shit about armor grinds?

I am off to cancel.  Fuck you Mythic.  I loved your game, the graphics, the UI, the lore, the setting, the magic items.  You were THIS close to a success!  God you missed it you fucking clueless, clown-molesting, child-beating, neanderthal, cock gobbling toad-humpers!

I play the Warhammer tabletop mini game!  I RUN a Warhammer RP campaign!  I am your goddam audience and I can't fucking wait to cancel!

Fuckit bye.  I got WoW, and LOTRO both new expansions.  I got SW and Fable II.
Epic.  Fail.

I don't even think that's the issue so much as the king PQ being the major carrot for doing the rvr to begin with.  Until they work in something like darkness falls, or give some other major carrot for doing it, like giving a real reason to hold a keep, the values on the armor don't matter so much as that you need it to participate int he major reason to pvp to begin with.

That was my thought. This smells of Riccitello much more than MBJ, especially since I dont see Jacobs going around posting everywhere how fucking awesome this new change is.

How the hell does this sound more like Riccitello? Mythic already did this once with ToA?

That's some pretty absurd tinfoil shit. You really think he called up Mythic and said "Hey guys, you know that game you're doing? Yeah, that one. I rolled zerg, and the lag during Alt raids is getting pretty bad. Could you add some kind of arbitrary requirement to keep the noobs out? tia".

This really is nonsense. I didn't like the odds when I was waiting for class items to drop as the highest attendance player in my class in a DKP guild in WoW. It involved hundreds of tedious clears. It will be worse in WAR with the nonsense PQ rolls and the asinine system of favoring the DPS classes. I'm not prepared to catass raid here or anywhere else any more. I'll continue to play for a while, but it looks like I've been shut out of the endgame.

WoW will get my bucks for WotLK because I know that the 70-80 and other new stuff will be good for a few weeks of fun at least. But the WoW 'endgame' is just as atrocious.

I'm very tempted to join Endie in GoonBat now.

A pollyanna-ish hope that the lead designer of a AAA MMO wasn't certifiably insane/mentally retarded?

McQuaid... check

Garriot... check

Who's next?

How the fuck does Jennings expect us to take his moniker seriously when he's less barmy than any of his peers?

This is where you made your biggest mistake. You are not the audience they wanted playing WAR. You are the audience they wanted to keep out, if possible. They don't want a bunch of players going on and on about tabletop rules and shortcuts and lore. They want 1 million MMO players, picked from the corpse of whatever game they have just lost interest in, be that WoW or LOTRO or EQ2.

Hardcore Warhammer fans are not the target audience for this game, pissed-off and bored WoW players are.

My point was that something like TOA happens because developers come up against design problems that they find too hard, too complicated or too expensive to solve, and so they insert a gear-dependent block of some kind in the game that is designed in their view to suck up catass energies. It doesn't matter where exactly that catass gear is inserted into the design, really. And you guys said, "Oh, that's not an inevitable part of Diku design, and Mythic is really clear that this isn't part of the vision for Warhammer."

And, unfortunately for me, there doesn't seem to be anything in the relatively near future that I'm interested in. 

Dammit.  (http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum/images/smilies/moonywave.gif)

Surely Bowman at least gets a mention in there , I only tried Horizons for one day at launch , and quickly got the message when they used pron signup page for membership management , but still , Bowman did some epic crazy posts on forums that entertained me for hours

Definitely not the McQuaid-opium epic level , but still entertaining nonetheless

There is only one man who could possibly top them all if he wanted...

DEREK SMART!!!!

BATTLECRUISER ONLINE UNIVERSE!!!!!

What have you done?

Don't forget that before Bowman there was the High Priest of batshit insane developers, David Allen.

Nice emoticon. (http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/808/emotxdfq3.gif) (http://imageshack.us)

Damn had forgot about him ,

So a Mmorpg company with Allen , Bowman , Garriot , at it's core , McQuaid managing the financing and hiring/firing , and MJ as the PR man ,

This , would be quite a reality TV show I would actually enjoy watching

Doomed humanity. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

I don't believe you, you don't seem like enough of a douchbag.  Let's see some Paladin TL level insanity, then maybe I'll believe you.  :why_so_serious:

The grab bag says you need all seven pieces of a particular armour set to take part in a King encounter.


That so utterly retarded that it must either be an error, or be something that will get changed when everyone points out that it fails the HAM test ie...


The HAM test for MMOG mechanics

Is "you need all seven pieces of a particular armour set to take part in a King encounter" more retarded than pistol damage not stacking with rifle damage?

I'd have to say Yes.

We aren't quite there.  No one has called this 'A SLAP IN THE FACE!' yet.

You mean increasing your Quickness didn't make you run faster? :pedobear:

Sweet god, why did you invoke his name?  Do you know what you've done here?  I need to go find a fallout shelter now...

There is a VAST CONSPIRACY to keep the truth about quickness and runspeed from the world! What's his ass was a patsy!

As long as noone speaks the name two more times, we're all safe.

This is what I want to know.  Now that I'm over the kneejerk reaction I'd like to know if this is going to be just a tiering/keying system to access certain content (which is FUCKING RETARDED but acceptable), or is going to wildly shift power from RvRers to PvE players.

A shame.  I really wanted to do some king raids, but I can't see myself farming for it like it's Vex Thal.  However I could probably still live with things if it wasn't massively overpowered like WoW.

Some of them were perfectly sane, it's why they quit!  :grin:

Probably column A, but you can be sure that most people want very little from column B.

This game is circling the bowl already.  That is so sad. 

So I get back from eight days without internet... to this shit?  I was already on the fence about the T3 grind that I couldn't fucking stand. 

Now I find that there's a super-cockblock involved in the game?  How appropriate they announce it after the first month's subs have been billed. 

I just canceled, likely pre-ordering WotLK now instead of waiting six months. 

I had such high hopes, Mythic. 

Ahh, just what was missing:  assrape by rabid peruvian mountain goats.

well I had fun in beta and in t1-t3.

THAT is supposed to make me happy to play this game?  Oh. My. Gawd.  What. The. Fuck?

I don't care if that's a volunteer or a paid employee.  They've got a red name and as far as anyone reading the post is concerned, a representative of Mythic.

No wonder they let Jacobs do all the PR.

I haven't heard anything about Serek Dmart working on an MMO, so I think we're safe for now.

Yeah. Toot toot! I'm the Mythic train wreck! Kernel of a good game, I'll be playing for a bit but amateur hour has got to stop. If Mark thinks he's competing with Blizzard he needs to wake up and realize what's going on.

does this count?
http://www.armchairempire.com/Interviews/derek-smart.htm

Is this confirmed anywhere? Seems like a lot of anger over something i haven't seen a lot of evidence for.

This came from the Herald.

It's a red name he literally gave himself.  Not that I'm defending Mythic in this clusterfuck but Rena_Lanford, aka Nancy the Wonderboy, is a special breed of dickhead.

I don't see a date. Therefore I refuse to believe this interview occured at any date earlier than last tuesday.

God help us should it come to be that all this time He has been right.

Lantyssa's point exactly. With no formal communications and the Vault being the default dissemination tool some random self-proclaimed red-name is causing havoc. Which is Mythics fault, because they've created the vacuum that allows this to happen.

Well, that and making stupid fucking decisions.

I keep seeing people quibble over the term "required". Let's just assume it's not technically required in the game to begin some awesome quest. The devs will still design the quest assuming players have it - thus it becomes required anyway because if you don't have it you die.

What if Conan just turns around and becomes king?

But thats another story...

Conan, the King of Craptacular.

It's a musical. :awesome_for_real:

It also stratifies the remaining player population into the haves and have-nots in the same way that WoW raiding did. Want to join our keep raiding guild? Go out and grind the minimum gear requirement first. Then apply on our forum and be measured not by whether you're somebody who we'd get along with or that knows how to play at an acceptable level but by how much equipment and renown levels you have attained, however you attained it. Don't meet the standard? Go join a lesser guild, where necessity will make the focus grinding the lower tier PQs to gear up the members for future keep raiding. Get lucky on rolls in your guild's events and gear up faster than the rest of them? Quit. Guilds are no longer about friendship or shared adventure, but are simply grades that you are supposed to graduate from in your selfish quest to get enough gear to eventually join the big boy's club.

If they had those official boards we both harp on about constantly, they wouldn't be able to do that.  So I'll still blame Mythic.

Serek Dmart really said that? What is he? The Ron Paul of videogames that everyone all of the sudden wants to listen to?

I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE DEREK SMART MAKES SENSE!

... ahem...

So, I'm not the kind of player that is ever going to get this gear. I probably wouldn't be a hardcore RvRer either, so it probably shouldn't matter to me. But this news is still going to make me unsubscribe.

I've been wondering what the hell Mythic was thinking about a number of things with WAR. I find it hard to match up enough important pre-launch promises with what actually appeared in game and, given it is only a month from launch, there have been a lot of "what the hell were you thinking?" info released.

The two key reasons I'm going to unsub is 1) I'm not having fun grinding my rank 18 Shadow Warrior across another dead zone and 2) Mythic appears to have no idea at all about what its players want. None at all. I mean, Mythic got DAoC a lot right according to other people, but all I can see here is decision after decision that appears to increase the grind and reduce the importance of RvR / PvP, which is meant to be the core of WAR. It's meant to be "War is Everywhere!", not "Grind, Bitches!".

The frightening thing is DAoC ultimately died because of exactly the same problem, good RvR (it didn't have scenario PvP) which the developers kept hiding behind more and more EQ style flag grind.

Why don't devs trust PvP when they put it in their game?

I don't know, but it really bugs the shit out of me. I am not USUALLY much of a PvPer. Except in Mythic games. But then Mythic has a sudden ... I dunno, spasm of "We need to get our players to PvE TOO" and we get crap like this change (which pisses me off MORE given how nigh-universal ToA hate was, you'd think they would KNOW BETTER ARGH).

I wanted to stick this game out, because I've been missing the RvR since leaving DAoC, and I doubt WoW's will ever be what I want it to be (they may surprise me, I guess). But between this and the population issues ... Well, I'll check back in a few months, I guess.

Is HRose banned or something?

The past few days it's been getting harder to even get a scenario pop, much less any group. The population issues are what's going to kill this game. People can play through the bugs and the poor design elements, but once the place is empty it's Game Over.

The most amazing thing is how they're refusing to talk about mergers, even after this exact same thing just happened in AOC.

Yes, we're talking far too much about Mythic titles for his presence to be anything less than annoying and banworthy.

He's put an "interesting" link up.

I don't know who arenajunkies is, but I suppose I can look into this over the weekend. I find the situation to be (more than) slightly dramatic though. I could go onto any site on the internet (any) and weave a very, very convincing message about any company. That said, there's no doubt Mythic is totally fucked and they're hemorrhaging players. That much a blind, stupid child could figure out.

As for the first bit, I'm sure Lum can shed light on his situation but I wasn't around that shit back then. As for us, meh, I just call it as I see it.

Also, stop enabling HRose. Not only does half of the blog post read like it was put through the google.com/translate_t meat grinder, it's also just well... it's annoying.


That sounds like something I'd find in a flight safety manual tucked in the seat in front of me on a Japanese airplane.

HRose's crazy blog is totally how I found out about F13 in the first place!

"People who hate MMO Design as much as me? I'm moving there!  :heart:"




Seriously though, I fucking LOVE that the one thing Mythic took from WoW's itemization was resist gear.  :awesome_for_real:

I'm not sure anything is more reviled then resist gear suits and THAT is what they use. Of all things, THAT.

I wasn't really referring to that part, I was around back then, just kicking around enjoying the drama, same as now.

So, I might take this over to the design threads a bit later, but here's an interesting question. Let's leave aside all the other problems that I think are producing a panicky mood inside Mythic Central. Let's just say you want to have "capturing the enemy faction city" to be the *hardest thing ever* in your game. Something that only happens every once in a while, when all the stars align and one faction is playing their A game all the way. Suppose you want to be sure that it isn't entirely up to the other player faction whether or not it's hard to do, so you have to introduce some kind of PvE difficulty as well.

And suppose you want to be sure you don't use gear dependency to gate off this challenge. In fact, suppose you don't want to make it in any way about massive investment of time that will reward catasses, but something that instead takes coordination, tactical and strategic smarts, and effort by most of the players of the faction trying to siege the enemy capital.

How would you do it?

I have no problem with someone having to perform a gating ritual to open an encounter. I do have a problem with everyone involved having to have completed the ritual.

I also have a problem with the gating ritual being 'repeat this same raid about 50 times until your armour parts drop and you win the lotto'.

If you want a dumbass pve gating ritual on the WAR equivalent of a relic raids, I'd have certain other monsters drop one-use TRADABLE keys. You'd need one of each of half a dozen specific keys to open the encounter but you'd only need one set for the whole raid, none of this bollocks where everyone invited along needs the whole set. Individual gating, rather than team gating, is what breaks up guilds and stops the epic events feeling like a realm achievement.

If you want a better, RvR related ritual, you could easily do something like needing all the battlefield objectives set for your realm across all four tiers to open the final encounter, and spawn a fucking dragon at the final objectives whenever it looks like one side is close to achieving this. This idea is courtesy of ten seconds thinking, but it is still way better than having an entire raid dressed identically.

If it's just a distraction, why worry about it?  :why_so_serious:

Hah I like the ending characterization there.  It would be awesome if they altered the graphics such that when everyone got in their "King raid suit" they all just looked like exactly identical furry lemmings when they zoned into the instance. 

I feel like Mythic just shot me in the face with rocksalt.

I was willing to put up with alot...  Class balancing issues, performance issues, hell, I was even willing to ride out the locked-up RvR zones...  One thing that I am absolutely, categorically NOT willing to do is farm fucking PVE gear to take part in what is supposed to be a PVP endgame.

/Sub-canceled.

-Apone.

That link is maybe from an eliminated CSR.  But the only thing of note I saw (tinfoil hat) was the starting of a new MMO. The only evidence we've ever seen for that to be true was Turbine -- DDO launched and LotRO was started.  So who knows.

Edit: sorry this was discussed in an other thread (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=15073.0)

A day in the Corps is like a day on the farm. Every meal a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade. I love the Corps.

lol samezies

The worst part of this is i play with my gfs family and my future mother in law wont let me quit cause im their tank  :P

Blah blah. Same post, different day.

Maybe you should play the damn game before you tell people they have no logic.

You can buy 1 piece of all the sets from vendors, the rest is thrown out into all the random bullshit you have to do in RVR PVE.

So, you can buy the gloves for each set, have fun with 1 piece!

LOL. You are so fucked.

EDIT: In a good way mind you, if that's the worst a mother in law has in store you're in good shape.

This game just seems not very well thought out.  When I play it feels like badly done random pieces thrown together from other games with no rhyme or reason.  They seem to have invested a lot of time(majority) and resources on some very bad pve, rather than RVR.  Even if I get the lucky roll I still have to farm another 23 to get one warband geared and since it is random drop you could get a bad streak of getting the same shit over and over again, let alone the farming for the rest of my guild.  What in the hell are they thinking about...

Maybe I am just getting to old and have played to many of these POS MMO's to have fun with them anymore. 

Hahahahaha !  :grin:

Allright, sweethearts, you heard the man and you know the drill! Assholes and elbows!

I'm stunned at the stupidity of Mythic.

What, exactly, did Mark Jacobs mean when he acknowledged that ToA was a mistake?

I'm beginning to think that what he meant was that all of the unhappy players made a mistake by not supporting it, rather than that the design was flawed from the beginning. 

Mythic learned nothing from ToA.  WAR is ToA v. 2. 

With all the dick-measuring MJ has done over the past month with WOW, Mythic is on the verge of doing something Blizzard never could or ever would; pissing all over their playerbase and shooting their game in the ass.

My current theory is that MJ is a Blizzard employee hired 3 years ago to take rival EA down.  It is the only logical conclusion I can draw from the past months decisions.  (Which should be chronicled as some of the worst decision making in MMO history).

This font is weird.  I was wondering what "click measuring" was.  Figured it was some sort of technical term............

Then I realized, "oh, Dick measuring".  Too funny.

Every times he posts, this is what pops into my head:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/righ/mjim.jpg)

Paul Barnett 24th October, You Tube video blog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtmYNMi9OY0).

The future is bright apparently.  I think Paul is a pretty funny guy, sure he's plugging a game but he's always been watchable. 

This video did really amuse me though, probably for all the wrong reasons, hey keep lords give exp now!  Yeah about 3k exp, I can get that in about 3 minutes killing normal mobs, so I wouldn't really chose to do it via a 30 minute (undefended) keep siege, not counting the 10 or so minutes needed to pick and turn the quest in.

Hey Sarge. You'll get lip cancer smoking those things.

Look into my eye...  ;)

Hudson: Is this game going to be a stand-up fight, sir, or another gear grind?

Mark Jacobs: Did you know that there are a total of 19 sets of armor available for each career? These armor sets can be found throughout the Warhammer world, and at higher levels can be incredibly helpful (if not imperative) for certain encounters.

Frost: Excuse me sir, what?

Mark Jacobs: On these high end sets, there are five pieces of armor which grant a 10% reduction in damage per piece when worn in specific endgame encounters, for a possible cumulative of around 50% reduction. With these set pieces, players can emerge victorious from what would otherwise be much more difficult battles.

Hicks: It's a gear grind.

Hudson: Well that's great, that's just fuckin' great, man. Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty shit now man...

Hicks: Are you finished?

Hudson: That's it man, game over man, game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?

Ripley: How long after f13 drops the mofo in the graveyard can we expect a rescue?

Hicks: [pause] Seventeen days.

Hudson: Seventeen days? Hey man, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen *hours!* Half my guild already canceled their subs and shit, what the fuck?

Ripley:  my 8 year old little brother survived longer than that with no guild, and no scenario pops...

So you better just start dealing with it. 

Just deal with it, Hudson...because we need your subscription and I'm tired of your bullshit. 

Now get on a PC and call up some kind of public quest, solo quest, or grind spot, anything that shows us the layout of this cockblock.

I want to see xp / mob, xp / hour, every possible way into this end game...
         

Hudson: Let's just bug out and go back to WoW, okay? What are we talking about this for?

Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire game from the forums. It's the only way to be sure.

Hudson: Fuckin' A!

Burke: Hold on, hold on one second. Our subscriptions have a substantial dollar value attached to them...

Ripley: They can bill me!

EDIT: Ripley vs Apone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un0jVDpwL_8)

He's about as watchable as my cat taking a dump on top of the dump my other cat just took to re-mark his territory.

His "Look at me! I'm English, have an accent and say crazy things" shtick got old faster then grinding the first stage of PQs for shitty potion rewards.

I would be surprised if having an accent and being from another country than the one you're from was part of a routine. But maybe all those crazy foreigners are just doing that accent stuff to infuriate people who can't house train their cats.

Like this guy?

(http://www.webwombat.com.au/spotlight/images/steve-irwin-dead.jpg)

Are you sure that our marriage isn't part of your "shtick"?  (http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/bncry.gif)  What would happen to our pussies?

Also - what about Canadians?

Also also - Zupa is soup.

No. But that is a schtick. It's the Games Workshop schtick. It's why they make machinegun noises in their shops with their mouths. It's chokably obnoxious.

I didn't say his accent is an act, I said his personality is. Oh and yes, my cats must be shitting all over my floor. Someone should invent some type of box that holds litter. They would make millions.

My favorite part is the expression he flashes when "Community James" provides a stock answer to what game he's been playing.

I apparently completely misunderstood your point; at the time all I was arguing about was the effect of gear on PVP balance. This is a gated content/access issue. The gate could be anything, or nothing, it doesn't have to be gear and it doesn't have to be a Diku to have it.

http://www.wardb.com/item.aspx?id=435356
"...complete 5 Enemy King Captures"

Did I miss something? Was this ninja'd or wut the hell?

It is the Renown rank 75 gear you can buy from a vendor after you have obtained the rank needed and done 5 King captures which is the RVR endgame of this game.

I see. So, it's not rolls anymore or what?

You will allways be able to buy a few pieces from a vendor according to your current renown rank but alot the other pieces you will need to roll it out over the King capture during the Capital sieges which you need to kill a Fortress lord to trigger.

So, which sets/pieces are rolls required?

ps: im lazy (just a lil)

You can normaly buy Gloves\shoulders regardless and the jewelery pieces rest of the set pieces drops in various places.

you can get boots from players and gloves from vendors

rest of sets (helm/bp/shoulders and looks like conqueror+ has a belt) are rolled

annihilator - keep taking
conqueror - fortress taking
invader - invader pqs in city
warlord - sub bosses in contested cities - there is accessories for this set too on vendors, no other set has accessories afaik
then the final set which you see, you need 5 king wins for

all the "rolled" pieces are from gold bags and each gold bag has a random piece in my experience, so you could go for the rest of your days getting all breastplates from gold bags thanks to RNG

The worst thing is I got my sentinal helm last night... level 40 purple... and its a downgrade from my direhelm of the wisp, a level 37 blue from the auction house.

how ghey is that?

Ghey? Very.  Surprising? Not.

I think we should set up warbands to camp the auction house.  It drops some nice loot. 

I think that's how the gold farmers make a comeback.

Farm for loot.  then offer to sell it in tells on the cheap.

It'd be the only reasonable way to get decent gear.

Grinding for gear in WAR is not different from any other game, including WOW. All MMOs have some kind of carrot and in WAR, the renown carrot alone is not enough. There has to be a gear related carrot.

If you don't like gear grinds, don't tell me you're going back to WOW because that's all it is. On my warrior, I had a frost and nature resistance set of gear (Hydross), a shadow resistance gear set (BT), FR set (pre-BC), DPS set of gear, and a tanking set of gear that was in three tiers (T4, T5, T6) just like WAR is. If you think about it, the amount of gear that WAR is saying you can grind is quite small compared to WOW.

Forts and cities will be fun, but just open rvr is fun at the moment, so I'm not going to worry about the gear grind for now, just enjoy the game.

WoW's gear grind is something I find enjoyable (within reason), so I certainly don't mind going and doing that, as that is the purpose of the game. WAR's PvE is a pile of poop compared to its RvR and I am not at all interested in grinding the shitty part to do the fun part. The part that's supposed to be the focus.

I also disagree that you have to have this gear grind bullshit as a carrot. But then, I played DAoC, and pretty much everyone marks the real beginning of the End for that game with ToA, the expansion that added in gear grinding carrot bullshit.