f13.net

Also, there shouldn't be this many unattackable mobs one week from release.  EA's testing program must suck to miss a bug this obvious.

Is it me or did they up the levelling requirements bigtime?

Is it me or did they up the levelling requirements bigtime? my chosen feels like he's been 10 a looong time now and the quests already dried up in the level 11-12 area.

It doesn't get any better no. The only reason I can see to play WAR over WoW is for the large-scale RVR, otherwise you're better off playing WoW unless WAR just really feels better to you. I'll be playing both, but only because WoW gutted old-school AV. If it was still going I'd probably not bother.

Is it me or did they up the levelling requirements bigtime? my chosen feels like he's been 10 a looong time now and the quests already dried up in the level 11-12 area.

one big issue was as soon as i hit ten and started the second area the new rvr scenario has not popped up once for me so it's turned into boring pve.  The servers can't be that devoid of people under ten that in three hours not a single scenario would pop up for chaos, is this possible? they REALLY need to work on better que'ing systems because the one thing to break the tedious levelling isn't working.

The RvR scenarios are fun as heck.. unfortunately as soon as people realize I'm a Runepriest I'm dead.   :ye_gods:

Its funny, a while back they made noise about Dogs of War and using points to balance the teams.  I see none of this.

Heh, which one? RvR or Scenarios? :-) I love the scenarios mostly because of the battle funneling (typical level designed choke points) that RvR itself rarely has, but also because it's a guaranteed battle.

I do wonder though: how many people actually will jump in and STAY in Scenarios until they hit around the middle of the tier level-wise. Every time I've entered a Scenario before level 8 it's been roll after roll. Level-balancing works appropriately imho, but it doesn't provide the abilities you need in order to have a chance.

Has anyone found leveling in Scenarios to be on par time-wise against PvE? Like, even though you won't get many kills at level 4 in Scenarios, you still get XP from the repeatable Scenario quest(s). I never really tested leveling up just on PvP in this game.

This strikes me as "don't do this just at the end of Beta 101": so many of these guys change the pace of levelling to make it feel grindy and punitive. Warhammer's PvE game is boring and ordinary, and if you have to PvP to level, you'll get frustrated with that too. In theory, they're ready for people to max level and dive into endgame RvR, unlike Conan, so they shouldn't be putting the breaks on. Also in theory, they've already got a mechanism in place that makes people want to repeat content (RvR, PQs) so that alone should slow levelling somewhat. When levelling gets slow enough that you feel a sense of dragginess, grindiness, your levelling had better be fun in and of itself. And Warhammer's just isn't.

Are you fucking kidding me?  Why do they continue to pull this shit?  Has prolonging the leveling curve ever paid off for an MMO?  Was it really fast prior, and even so would that have made any fucking difference for a game designed to be a perpetual back-and-forth?

XP nerf is noticeable.  If it was nerfed at levels 1-20, I'd be inclined to say that's ok.  But if WAR goes the way of exponential time leveling like other MMOs were higher levels mean longer grinds than lower levels, then it's a crappy move.  

Even 10-15% strikes me as a dumb idea: I thought they were just about right in the previous round. Again, supposedly--and you guys on Elder can't talk about it--they're ready for people to go all the way to the endgame, and have a sustainable game structure in place for them. Plus they've got a game that in theory ought to encourage people to create alts and try lots of different classes.

If you've got a fairly entertaining levelling treadmill (this is always relative: a levelling treadmill is not ever going to be crazy fun), maybe you can afford to slow it down slightly for the first run-through of most players. (e.g., World of Warcraft). Warhammer's selling point is not their PvE or even PvP levelling. It just isn't. So what's the point of adding grind at the last minute, as if it were a bit of salt for a bland soup? It makes the final results worse, not better, even from the standpoint of managing player levelling.

I can deal with the slower leveling, but not being able to gain Renown and having my Renown Rank capped is extremely frustrating.

Try to understand this from a mechanics viewpoint.  In a few months, players will want to stay in the lower tiers for fun.  You don't want your players able to get to high levels of renown in lower level tiers.  Not only does it make the disparity in the lower tiers worse, it provides a way to be even that much more powerful when heading to the next tier.  You really need a renown cap on each tier for the mechanics to shake out correctly. 

Try to understand this from a mechanics viewpoint.  In a few months, players will want to stay in the lower tiers for fun.  You don't want your players able to get to high levels of renown in lower level tiers.  Not only does it make the disparity in the lower tiers worse, it provides a way to be even that much more powerful when heading to the next tier.  You really need a renown cap on each tier for the mechanics to shake out correctly. 

Is there a way to turn of XP gain?  If not, then how are people going to be able to stay in a lower tier?

In DaoC you could /xpoff or /rpoff.  I'm not sure if there exists an equivalent in WAR.  I just assumed there was.  Assuming has always been my downfall. 

Is there a way to turn of XP gain?  If not, then how are people going to be able to stay in a lower tier?

I still odn't understand why MMO devs dont add an ability that speeds up XP gain after you have maxed out a character. Some kind of flag on the account ... Order 40% XP bonus

Would get more people rolling alts and playing longer, I would guess.

I do not think they want twinks in this game, hence no way to stay level 11, as you gain XP in PvP as well. IMO, this is a good thing. Twinks ruin "Battle grounds" for new players.

Great idea. A la Disgaea. If you reincarnate your char (re-roll) the next cycle you gain XP much faster. That is GOOD STUFF.

See:  Arguments for and against the /level command.

These systems alienate new players and turn newbie areas into ghost towns.  I'm all for less grinding personally... not everyone agrees with me.

nope, all the tiers influence the final tier which is the endgame.

But where do those points go? is there a big world tracker and first one to 5billion points wins? what benefits/downsides do low level zones and scenario's actually have to the max level game?

Campaign Overview

The objective of a Campaign is to take over the zones and capital city of the opposite realm.

Between the opposing zones in each tier, there is a unique battlefront. Initially, the battlefront divides the tier evenly between the two realms, but as victory points are gained by each side through RvR gameplay, the battlefront shifts depending on who is winning the most victory points. Earn enough victory points, and your realm will gain control of that battlefront. A percentage of victory points from tier 1 spill over into tier 2. Likewise, a percentage of victory points from tier 2 spill over into tier 3, and from tier 3 into tier 4, so your victory points gained in lower tiers increase your points in upper tiers. Even low level players in tier 1 will ultimately be contributing to the overall war effort.

Tier 4 is where each realm will struggle for the ultimate prize – capturing the capital city of an opposing army. Tier 4 is the final battlefront. To open a capital city to attack you will first have to capture the neutral zone in the center. Once you have enough victory points to control that zone, its scenarios will lock down, and scenarios in your enemy’s tier 4 zone will open up, allowing your realm to attack that zone. If your enemies then gain victories of their own they can push the front back to the neutral zone and potentially open up your own tier 4 zone to attack. This makes tier 4 a constant struggle for the battlefront.

If you gain enough victory points to control the enemy’s tier 4 zone, the enemy capital city itself will become open to attack, opening up a new range of scenarios inside that city's zone, detailing the attacks on the stronghold. If that attack is successful then the controlling realm will be able to (temporarily) conquer and ransack most of the enemy capital. Burning, looting and special NPC encounters are sure to follow. You will not be able to hold onto your enemy city indefinitely. Systems will be in place that will eventually wrest control of the city back to the rightful owners. When this happens, the campaign will begin again.

Each racial paring has a different campaign going on at the same time, and do not effect each other.

They definitely need to bolster people to the highest level of the tier...the loot advantage (and having more spells/tactics/whatever) is easily enough for the higher level players.  Also, consider putting a ton of awesome PQs in the lower part of the tier with nice to loot to help out the lower levels.  It's still never going to be good.  Joining a scenario before level 7 definitely ain't fun, and I can imagine it's just as bad at level 12 against level 20s.

i had to use tweezers to get the splinters out of my sphincter last night after meeting a lvl 18 black orc on my lvl 12 witch hunter. However, that was the only encounter that really stuck out in my mind as a case of "i don't have a fucking chance in hell here"  Not a big fan of the changes they made to the stonetalon scenario.


perhaps i have just been brainwashed into accepting that anyone who has a few lvls on me has a good chance of kicking my ass. Regardless, it still seems in my mind to be better than what happened in WoW bgs to you if you weren't max lvl for the bracket.

Your Rank has been increased to 8!  You are still a noob and will be 2 shotted instead if one shotted.  Go PvE you idiot

See:  Arguments for and against the /level command.

b) Still, the combat in Warhammer isn't satisfying or compelling or viscerally fun as WoW's. I'd say it has to do with sounds and with cooldown timer feeling obtrusive.

Yes, Slog. That.

It's not even about the oomph or something, it's the very basic of HURTING mobs.
Plus something that I can't pin down in the skills cooldown and enqueing system makes it even lees feedback-y, so dull.

Combat plays too much like LotRO and not enough like WoW to me (let alone Conan).

I also get these random 'spell not ready' (I forget the exact phrase) at times when I think the spell should be ready.

Just a note... the Target Not Attackable seems to be fixed... thankfully.

Mobs running around like idiots letting players kill them easily? Well first we have to make those mobs unattackable, so even if the pathing problem is minor we can't let players get a free hit on one of our millions of mobs they'll have to grind.

Worried about dirty players hacking? Make every key press need server side validation, now you have a sluggish ui.

Mob pathing and targeting errors are almost infuriating at this point.  With the queues as they are, you can't even level on pvp scenarios anymore.  So the choices have been reduced to a) running boring quests, b) doing buggy PQ's, c) Getting slaughtered in open RvR by level 11's with crazy gear, or d) waiting in line to do RvR scenarios. 

If they could remove the scenario queues and reduce the buggy PQ's, it would be a lot better.  Until then, I'm going to whine. 

Speaking of pets, yeah, thats jacked up too. If i send my Squig out, and it kills the target. It starts coming back (maybe  :oh_i_see: ), however if while its running back, i start back stepping... IT DOES TOO, even if its 30 feet away, so its no longer running back to my side,

Last night was in the dark elf area (I play a sorc).  Tonight I'm going to head over to the greenskin area to see if it's any better.  I think it's heavily server/realm dependent.  Also, I know it will improve at release do to there being more levels for people to spread out in... it just seems a bit rough with everyone in the same areas.

FWIW, WoW had the exact same problem.  

It feels completely intended, or more of a "First iteration of code left in".

At the very beginning of the CE beta they put in the new combat code for players, but not for pets.  So when CE beta started I rolled a squig herder but the squigs were unusable during the that first week/weekend.  Mark addressed it in the "this is the shit we see that is wrong" post, but basically from what he said it sounded like the pets were still on the old combat system and it was making them completely borked (I had gotten into the habit of spamming the pet attack key until it would attack, then firing on the mob, it sometimes would take 30-40 seconds to get my pet to even attack).

I bet that this is the first attempt to "fix" those issues we were seeing back in the preview weekend. 

All the "new" combat system is is playing the animations for your abilities instantly when you press the button, and starting the GCD client-side immediately.  It's mostly just presentation rather than functional changes (the slop timer is a definite functional change though).  I don't think any of that would apply to pets, as they auto-activate their abilities so there's no need to "fake" anything.  I think the pet problems are just plain bugs.

The "old" combat system worked fine, it was just unresponsive because you got no feedback at all (literally, none, not even a glowy button) until the server confirmed your action.  Pets just plain didn't/don't work sometimes, it's not just a "feel" issue.

(oh, and yeah, I didn't mean to imply that pets following your every move was a bug, just that the backpedling behavior you saw is probably a bug or an unintended consequence).

(3) Pet Responsiveness – With similar issues to Monster Pathing and AI, this was not our finest hour.
- Need to transfer "combat responsiveness" fixes to pets - have pet move immediately on button press.
- “Oh no, Mr. Bill!” Pets suffer from same pathing and lack of response as general monsters. Pets hopping around like they were headed to Del Staters.

I'll just quote Mark Jacobs:

WAR does seem to do a few things better, so some credit is due.  Worldly PvP seems a lot more worthwhile in WAR.  This doesn't require any wait in a line... you just run out of a warcamp and join the zerg.  Sure, with pugs and solos the lack of organization will mean less impact while in RvR.  You still have many of ways to be involved without feeling like a complete non-factor.  The pvp in WoW that I enjoyed the most seemed to be the pvp noone participated in.  People were so busy grindign honor in the arenas that they never spent much time in the world pvp.  I think WAR has addressed this and will better suit my pvp playstyle.   

You get PvE XP for RvR/PvP, forced to out level and live the life of a chicken?

Or am i not understanding what your talking about?

Here is one major thing I see happening with world pvp that will eventually be the death of it:  Premades for Scenarios.

Is there some mechanic I'm missing that will prevent this from being an issue?

cevik:

i have seen exactly what you are describing several times over the months.   nothing like being in phase 3 of a pq when your tank, healers, etc. vanish leaving you holding the bag of shit and a very angry hero mob.

God, I'm a big, whiny, overly-analytical killjoy.

Despite all my random pretentious tech-ramblings, this game IS pretty goddamn fun.

This appears to be one of those cases where the WAR guys decided not to learn from the mistakes of WoW, and instead forge their own path.  Now WAR is going to have the exact same issues, without the easy fix that WoW had (because the entire system is based on those BGs on a per server basis).  In WAR on the underpopulated side you are going to, as a PUGer, have to wait for an hour to get a BG, then get likely rolled in 2 minutes by a premade group using vent.

God, I'm a big, whiny, overly-analytical killjoy.

Despite all my random pretentious tech-ramblings, this game IS pretty goddamn fun.

Say what you wil about the technical problems, it's a goddamn fun game.

Hmm, it's almost like I've heard that said before about some other game..

Quote from: amiable on Today at 12:16:21 PMSay what you wil about the technical problems, it's a goddamn fun game.

Hmm, it's almost like I've heard that said before about some other game..

Yeah...i think i learned my leason from AoC.  I'll wait several months before thinking about trying this game.  Which is just too bad.

Bad idea.

Warhammer is by far the most social-oriented game to come out in a long time.

The fun is strictly bound to players' activity and all the options being accessible. The *most* fun, no matter of technical problems, is going to be at release. And those technical problems do not even seem so critical.

A few months down the line you could find empty zones and a progressive specialization in players' organization that would make the game much less accessible and fun. Play it while it's fresh, accessible and casual-friendly. What happens a few months after launch is unpredictable.

So you are predictiing it's going to flop because newbs after the first few months won't get beyong the first 30 days?

That's exactly how I feel at this point.  I'm having fun with the game and they will get my money.  I just feel dirty about it knowing that it should be much more polished than it is yet I still support it. 

Bad idea.

Warhammer is by far the most social-oriented game to come out in a long time.

The fun is strictly bound to players' activity and all the options being accessible. The *most* fun, no matter of technical problems, is going to be at release. And those technical problems do not even seem so critical.

A few months down the line you could find empty zones and a progressive specialization in players' organization that would make the game much less accessible and fun. Play it while it's fresh, accessible and casual-friendly. What happens a few months after launch is unpredictable.

I usually hate PvP in mmo's, but damn if I didn't sit here for like 8 hours straight doing RvR yesterday.  I'm really having a good time playing, even with alot of the minor annoyances.

My fiancee (wife in about a month) played her first castle siege and defense last night.  I got tired and went to bed and she stayed behind because she was so into the killing.  In our enitre 5+ years of game playing this has never, ever happened.  Say what you wil about the technical problems, it's a goddamn fun game.

The *most* fun, no matter of technical problems, is going to be at release.

This game is still way more polished feeling then AoC was. 

for a game using old tech, rather precedented systems, i can't believe this game is in the state its in, really. Especially in comparison with the ration of shitt AOC got for its technical issues... The technologically difference between the two make the issues that WAR has, laughable. Seriously...texture loading? At least AOC was compiling shaders and about 4 layers of texture information with a draw distance that WAR cant seem to acheave even on max.

Are there respecs?

* - unless they ninja change shit on release, but it has always been free in beta

I would almost count on there being a charge after release. 

Bad idea.

Warhammer is by far the most social-oriented game to come out in a long time.

The *most* fun, no matter of technical problems, is going to be at release.

I hope they don't open any more servers, The RvR areas on my server are dead.

And it begins.... I think this is going to be a problem in 3-6 months post-release.  There's simply too many places to rvr in this game.  Just like having 3 different PQ areas for a Chapter.  One of them is overcrowded and the other two are empty.  It's a broken design that will need fixed on the fly by Mythic as the game grows.  If they're not fast with fixes, the game will flounder. 

I would almost count on there being a charge after release. 

And it begins.... I think this is going to be a problem in 3-6 months post-release.  There's simply too many places to rvr in this game.  Just like having 3 different PQ areas for a Chapter.  One of them is overcrowded and the other two are empty.  It's a broken design that will need fixed on the fly by Mythic as the game grows.  If they're not fast with fixes, the game will flounder. 

Did anyone seriously believe for one second respeccing would be free?

They definitely need to bolster people to the highest level of the tier...the loot advantage (and having more spells/tactics/whatever) is easily enough for the higher level players.  Also, consider putting a ton of awesome PQs in the lower part of the tier with nice to loot to help out the lower levels.  It's still never going to be good.  Joining a scenario before level 7 definitely ain't fun, and I can imagine it's just as bad at level 12 against level 20s.

I don't know, just keep playing and leveling a long the way and then you get to be the badass for a while.  It's not like you can camp and twink in a tier range for long since you level out of it eventually.

I don't understand the crying.  Everyone hits the level cap eventually.

That's true, but I think its bad for the game.  I think many new players' first impression of scenarios will be very unpleasant.  First impressions mean so much in a new MMO.  Heck, Age of Conan would have fallen flat on its face at launch if it weren't for how compelling newbie island was.

I've found that questing until the first warcamp, hitting level 7 and then going to RvR is the way I'm gonna go at live.

Its worth getting rank 2 before you do that I think schild, just so you have the option to grab the very first set of renown gear.

or, why should I play Mythic's copy of the WoW battlegroup and get stomped on as a newb when I can play the World of Warcraft version with my maxed out character? 

I've found that questing until the first warcamp, hitting level 7 and then going to RvR is the way I'm gonna go at live.

PQ's to level 8, then PvP scenarios.  If I'm sick of PQ's, I'll open RvR while I wait for my PvP scenario queue.

Anyone else hate the greenskin pvp scenario as much as I do?  (The one with the flags on 2 levels of a brokwn fortress).

If you enjoy WoW, play WoW.  Those of us that found WoW pvp unfun and unbalanced, may find WAR a better fit.  More options mean that we all win.  

Yeah but it takes all of like 5 minutes to get rank 2, I find that I almost always have a gap or two that it can fill.

I hit RR 2.5 doing the cannon pve quest in empire.

Ah, I love that the game bugs out randomly and gives you reknown in pve.

You sure you didn't just get renown because your realm conquered the zone?  Cuz that happens.

I did just fine joining scenarios as level 1 fresh of character creation.  You wont be able to solo anyone but if you follow the crowd theres no reason you can't contribute meaningfully.  You'll also be about lvl 3 after one scenario.

I've noticed it occasionally giving me a bit of renown (no k, people) when healing in PVE if I'm flagged.

I think he meant that it would be the thinking of WoW PvPers arriving in WAR - why play something that's similar to what you already like, but get owned instead. Which I can't answer, because I've not played WAR yet. Or PvP'ed in WoW. So. :-)

PQ's to level 8, then PvP scenarios.  If I'm sick of PQ's, I'll open RvR while I wait for my PvP scenario queue.

Anyone else hate the greenskin pvp scenario as much as I do?  (The one with the flags on 2 levels of a brokwn fortress).

If that's the case, I think the statement is still valid.  People that enjoy WoW should play WoW.  I think WAR's target audience will be people that aren't enjoying WoW anymore or in my case, never really enjoyed the focus of WoW pvp at all.  I apologize to slog if my comment slighted him in any way.  It wasn't my intention. 

Yeah I hate that one. It's like being dumped into a box only just big enough to fit us all in. It especially sucks as a runepriest. I go straight to the human lands when I want to do scenarios now.

Barracks, Fortress, Lighthouse ftw!

Yeah I hate that one. It's like being dumped into a box only just big enough to fit us all in. It especially sucks as a runepriest. I go straight to the human lands when I want to do scenarios now.

Well thats pretty much even what real war is.. either protect x from y or attack x and take y from z.

Uh...maybe when you boil it down to it's most basic components sure but for some reason I think I was looking for more. No vehicles just stationary dps batteries, no destructible environments just keep doors. All there is in the game(in my limited experience) is sitting on flags or killing a keep lord and sitting in a keep. Yes the actual player vs player part is fun but for a game so highly about pvp i was just expecting a bit more than sitting on flags.

Quest gear and the opportunity to get low level blues, greens and purples are worth more than the reknown gear.

For the first Tier I'm going to quest until the first PQ then sit in the PQ until my influence maxes out

Takes doing the PQ 2-3 times to max out the influence, at least the early ones. So not really much sitting in it :awesome_for_real:

I just have to say, the past 2 nights i have played, on the server i am on, PQ are dead (the dual sided ones, or ones off the batten path), scenarios take forever to cue up, and the RvR zones are vacant in tier one.

Foreshadowing?

Instead of impeding doom it might be that people aren't bothering to play characters that are going to get wiped tomorrow.

And did you try all 3 Qs? Empire vs Chaos is by far the fastest on Chrace. I've zone hopped to Q all three at once and EvC always pops first.

PQ's get old.  They're better than all the runaround quests, but still only really done for the rewards.  Open RvR in the first tier is all about getting people to overextend, so it's not very exciting either.  I think you'll see people rushing to the endgame in WAR with few lingering in the lower tiers.  The stickiness is all going to hinge on the delivery of the late game PvP.   Since this is really learned MMO behavior, I'm not really saying anything you all don't already know.  

Does it frighten anyone else that the late game is still under NDA?

I know, I know.. I'm just a hater.

Does it frighten anyone else that the late game is still under NDA?

I know, I know.. I'm just a hater.

You can completely win this map without even taking the barracks or lighthouse, but by simply just holding the Fort.  Unless they up the amount of points you get for the barracks and lighthouse.

Wait, what? The endgame is still under NDA? I need to re-read that 'we dropped it' statement.

I'll go so far as to say it was all tested, and what I saw was the same as the first 2 tiers.. just different/ more abilities to play with and some classs balances shifted.  If you don't like the first 20 levels, don't even think of buying.  The game doesn't get any different.

I'll go so far as to say it was all tested, and what I saw was the same as the first 2 tiers.. just different/ more abilities to play with and some classs balances shifted.  If you don't like the first 20 levels, don't even think of buying.  The game doesn't get any different.

May be.  But nothing quite screams "We have something to hide!" like, well, hiding stuff does.

I'm with you on bugs but the Euro Beta issue is a classic contractor failure. I would think that GOA is likely in extremely hot water right now and can't afford much in the way of mistakes if they want any more future business from Mythic.

Didn't Mythic use GOA for DAoC and have similar results?

May be.  But nothing quite screams "We have something to hide!" like, well, hiding stuff does.

I can't think of any single events that were meltdowns on this scale - there was a fairly constant level of complaining from the Euros about this and that but I don't think it was more than the usual level of complaint that customers have about any given MMO service provider. I don't have direct experience with them though.

Ah, you're worried about game breaking bugs and stuff.  That I can't speak on, as I didn't do enough of the City vs City stuff to break the NDA on anyway.  The game had gotten stale for me by then as it's incredibly shallow.

Why must they piss me off at the beginning of every play session by making scroll down, click a box, then click a button?  Twice.  I hated that in DAoC and I'm not happy it's here too.

The xp from mob grinding and all pvp xp was fairly heavily nerfed, the xp from quests was increased slightly.

No game will ever get a break on these boards.  It could be "The Disciples of Jesus" MMO and it'd be like "OMG Judas class gets extra money at game start wtf!"

No game will ever get a break on these boards.  It could be "The Disciples of Jesus" MMO and it'd be like "OMG Judas class gets extra money at game start wtf!"

I have been drinking.

No game will ever get a break on these boards. 

It could be "The Disciples of Jesus" MMO

You also have to keep AoC in your mind while reading the WAR criticism here.  There's a cadre of newly gunshy former AoC fanbois who are being extra critical now in an attempt to rebuild their cred.

Can someone clarify the Realm v Realm thing? If we take control of a zone, we just 'get bonus' ? But what bout the take over capital, how does the RvR lead to that actually?

3 Race pairing t4 zones, each has a battlekeep in it. to control the battlekeep you need to push the war front from the middle neutral zone to the enemy's.

                                                [BattleKeep] -- [Your t4] ------ [Neutral t4] ------ [Enemy T4] -- [BattleKeep]

you push the front my gaining relem control of that zone, thats the bar above the minimap and you get points for your side from open RvR and scenarios. once your side control 2 of the 3 battlekeeps then you can siege the capital city.

I played the open beta and blogged up a review on the game. It's not bad, and certainly better than I expected. But I won't be buying the game. While it certainly has some nice new features like public quests, open parties and warbands, there just isn't enough new in the way of gameplay to make me pay money for yet another diku.

Me? Shit, I'm broke as fuck. The last new game I bought for myself was FIFA 08 for the Wii. And that was a disaster of shitty shit shit shit. I either buy used or wait until that shit goes down in price.

Wait - is the "Elder" NDA still in effect? Are you fuckin' kidding me?

I went out of town for 2 weeks. Two weeks AFTER they dropped the "general" NDA. They're this close to release (I don't even know when release is) and they still have an NDA in place, that should be telling.

Sorry for NDA breakage elsewhere.

Likes:

Latency.  I'm playing on a North America server from Japan and I can pvp just fine, I notice a few seconds of issues once every half hour.  Either the Japanese have magic internet or Mythic has really figured framerates out. 

Feels like a world, and I like the artistry.  I actually laughed out loud when I read "My magic brings all the boyz to the Waagh" in random quest text.

Public quests.  Fun, meeting people, etc.

Scenario PvP is fun.  And you rake in the Realm points WHEN YOU WIN.  When you lose, you get like 40.  I say this because destruction has lost every ekrund but one that I've ever played from beta through headstart. 

I still have mixed feelings about the lack of the ability to quickly kill.  It feels like we are all turtles hitting each other with feathers.  Yeah, I know, focus fire newb, etc.  But every scenario I've played has went like this.

We both capture the end flags.

Then, roughly five healers and three ranged per team stand on the ledge and watch 2-3 tanks fight each other on the main flag.  This goes on for roughly ten minutes, and eventually Order captures the flag because the eternal tank fight moves ten feet off it and someone random stands on the flag while our five healers and three ranged don't notice and just keep healing/attacking the tanks.  Then we lose.  Its pretty much impossible to die, because tanks have 2-3 healers each and ranged (like me) just run away from the ledge if anyone alt tabs them.

Posted by: Ingmar

As a general rule in MMOs, I think people living longer = generally more fun for everyone. Nobody likes getting 2 shot.

Wait - is the "Elder" NDA still in effect? Are you fuckin' kidding me?

I went out of town for 2 weeks. Two weeks AFTER they dropped the "general" NDA. They're this close to release (I don't even know when release is) and they still have an NDA in place, that should be telling.

Sorry for NDA breakage elsewhere.

[chicken little]the sky is falling![/chicken little]

Edit: Took out something that might be close to the NDA edge. The Elder NDA is no cause for alarm.

If that were true, then there isn't a need for the NDA.  Mythic thinks they have something they need to hide still.

LOL.

I'm just appling MJ's own rules about NDAs here.  Myabe he shouldn't have posted items that he now regrets stating.

The Elder NDA is in place so that people can't post spoilers and guides on high level content.

Ok, change that to last 5 games that you bought that were released within the last few years.

The Elder NDA is in place so that people can't post spoilers and guides on high level content.

What high level content?

I can only assume one of two things about the people that keep whining about the Elder NDA:

1.  You're Mentally Handicapped
2.  You're trying to bait any Elders lurking here into breaking the NDA

Gimmick account or Fanboi refugee?

And why would they need to hide that?

Excuse me.

And why would they need to hide that?

I'm just kidding. That statement was meant to agree with Croaker's post above, sorry if no one got it.

Neither, I've actually played with you slog quite extensively in Shadowbane with Masquers.  I suppose that doesn't rule out that I could be a fanboi, but whatever.  I'm sure you and others will assume I'm a fanboi no matter what I say, just like you'll continue to assume the Elder NDA is hiding something other than a content rich end game.

I'm sure if he read this thread he'd want to update his original statement to say something like "general" NDA or some other such nomenclature. :-P

He made a post somewhere that he was content with when the NDA was lifted and how it fit into his original statement.

CEO of company makes a statement that spins positively for his product, news at 11?

If someone describes something as Cucumber Green, are you to take that as the color of the inside or outside of the cucumber?

Your question doesn't make sense given the context of my original statement.  Are you asking why they don't want spoilers and encounter guides posted on the Internet before the game even releases?

...It is the same reason that everything in TOA was a secret...

There's no *cough* "glory" in completing a PvE encounter after all the guides have been posted on teh interweb.  Even if you claim not to have read them no one will believe you.  I could care less about such things as I'm one of the rvr people that will be waiting for those very guides before I attempt any of the encounters.  However, when I say spoilers I don't just mean guides.  There's more than one "whoa that was fucking cool" moments to be had, and if people were already posting screenshots and movies those moments would lose some of their cool factor.  I understand a very small minority will get to experience and do these things first hand before the spoilers go up, but at least those people that enjoy being the first to do such things and figure things out on their own will have that opportunity instead of having it ruined before the game even releases.

personal satisfaction != glory

But you have a point, there's still some accomplishment in defeating a difficult encounter even with spoilers as they still typically require a ridiculous amount of coordination.

You put the penis in the vagina and then you move it around.. Oh wait, did I just spoil sex for you?

Sex is puzzle that you figure out and then it's just grind grind grind? Yeah, that's marriage.

Sex is puzzle that you figure out and then it's just grind grind grind? Yeah, that's marriage.

Doing it wrong.