f13.net

Going to keep this brief because I have an appointment with a butcher.

PS3 no longer compatible with PS2 shit. (http://www.scee.presscentre.com/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=4434&NewsAreaID=2)

"The new model is no longer backwards compatible with PlayStation®2 titles, reflecting both the reduced emphasis placed on this feature amongst later purchasers of PS3, as well as the availability of a more extensive line-up of PS3 specific titles (a total of 65 titles across all genres by Christmas)."

Step 1: Release a PS2 bolted to a PS3.
Step 2: Drop Price.
Step 3: Remove bolted-on PS2.
Step 4: ?
Step 5: Profit?

I don't even know what to say. Other than... I suppose... buy! Buy! BUY! Run your skank ass down to EB and buy one. Jesus, today is weird.

 :angryfist:

Edit: Reason for angry fist is... I can't buy a PS3 now.  And really, I don't want to.  Like the Wii (schild don't go ape on me) it doesn't have enough exclusive games to warrant me dropping the cash right now on it, especially with my wife's bday and a vacation coming up.  There's no must play games yet. Once the Atlus/NIS stuff drops, well it's a done deal.

Part of the allure of picking one up despite this glaring flaw would be that it plays my PS2 games.  Sony would really piss me off by doing this.

I really hope this is just for Europe. Ugh.
/me goes to buy a second PS3.

I give them 6 months before they completely reverse this decision.  This is not one of their better ideas.

I honestly suspect it might be a Europe thing. PAL is all fucked up - and now dead due to hi-def standards. The software emulator for America is almost perfect.

This is an announcement that would have been made for the US as well.

Please god I hope that's a tin-foil hat on my head rather than shit.

My understanding is that it's just the "low-end" 40GB model (which is coming to the U.S. too at the end of this month) which lacks BC.  The 80GB model (since presumably the 60GB is still being discontinued when supplies run out) will still have BC.

Ooo another rush of PS3's on Ebait to sell.

I seriously am starting to think Sony gets some sort of kick back, or is selling them at auction themselves.

Wow, that's a really, really bad fucking idea. That press release makes it sound like it's not only NOT hardware compatible, there isn't even software emulation anymore. If that's true...

This is living.


In pig shit.

Probably some tinfoil on your head.  As I mentioned in a few places (maybe even here), the PS2 emulator was improved sometime between 1.81 and 1.92 firmware versions, so someone at Sony is still working on BC.  Secondly, I think they are working on a software-only emulator but I can't remember where I read that.  Thirdly, we all know the gaming industry hates Europe; apparently they hate all of EMEA and "Australasia" which I think is a funny term.  Fourthly, this doesn't make a lot of sense since it would piss off lots people who have vast PS2 libraries or perhaps just bought some of the PS2 games released this summer, and it's a lot like saying "Hey, we decided to have Blu-Ray players not play DVDs" because people don't want two machines when they can get one.  Lastly, I think Velorath is right.

Apparently, this is what's happening: The new 40gb model has has the PS2 graphics chip removed (the higher spec 'software emulation' model was actually a hybrid emulation that still uses the graphics hardware), so no more PS2 backwards compatibility until someone puts a full emulator together.

The 40gb crippleware PS3 is due to be launched in the US Soon(tm), and is already listed on various vendor databases as such. Expect a press release in the near future.

The PS2 graphics chip had already been removed (I don't think the 80GB's have it in the U.S., and the 60GB's in Europe have been doing software emulation for a while now).  For whatever reason, even software emulation is being removed in the 40GB model.  The only explanation I have heard on why this would drop the price down is some vague talk about some sort of licensing costs.  The lack of BC is supposed to be limited to 40GB models, in the same way that the low end 360 models don't have an HDD (in the 360's case you can buy an HDD later, and I guess in the 40GB PS3's case, you can buy a new PS2 if you need one).  It's all about doing whatever they can to drop the price and offer up a bare bones model.

I don't get how removing 2 USB ports can reduce the price that much considering the actual parts are worth pennies.

As for the emulation, why the fuck would you remove one of the very best selling points of your console?

Now I'm itching for some technical papers.  Seems odd, I had forgotten about the Euro 60GB ones not having the Emotion Engine in it already, so I have to speculate that they are taking out some other piece of hardware, even if it is minor.  When you go from four to two USB ports, you are in serious cost-cutting mode.  Also from reading that, I take away that the 40GB will not support any media cards at all other than USB drives.

I think offering a cheapo model is probably the thing to do at this time, but the ironic part is that they are doing so by cutting out the entire PS2 library.  Yeah, save money on a 40GB PS3 but then all your games are going to cost ten (?) euros more.

Just a guess, but I'm going with "because they're desperate to drop the price in any way possible because nobody is buying their system and they can't afford to completely tank in the approaching Holiday season?"

The Emotion Engine and the graphics synthesizer were combined into one chip in the PS3.  Press releases around the time that software emulation was announced stated that both were being removed.  I've seen speculation though (with nothing to back it up mind you) that the PS3 still had the graphics sythesizer included.  I don't know the logistics of this, given that it was on the same chip as the EE, unless they are still separate on the PS2, and Sony was just using those parts.

So dumb.  $400 is the price point they would have had me at, if and only if I could play my PS2 games on it.

This had better be for Europe only.  What the fuck are they thinking?  The only reason I use my PS3 at this point is to play upscaled PS2 games!

I love my PS3.  I want to see Sony succeed.  But if they are going to keep making stupid fucking decision after stupid decision I won't feel bad watching sales flounder.  I will miss my JRPGs though.   :cry:

This makes no sense. Even if it is Europe only "discerning gamers" to use their own words aren't going to buy it with no backwards compatibility. Whoever came up with the idea seriously needs to be fired.

Hate to say I told you so...no, wait I don't.

I told you so.

Software emulation is the suck. The writing was on the wall as soon as they started making noise about software emulation, especially emulation of the PS2 which is a very complicated system.

Once again, they had no problem with software emulation on the PSP. No one who actually cares is even remotely worried.

Also, Margalis, the power of Final Fantasy?

The week before FF7 Crisis Core came out in Japan, PSP had 15,000 or so in sales.

In the last 2 weeks it did 500,000.


Ho Ho Ho. Nothing came out for the PS3, and yet the numbers are going up. This is last WEEK in japan btw. Also, the PS3 is higher than the PS2 now. Combined the Sony stuff far outstripped the Nintendo stuff. Meanwhile, Sony has nothing but ultimate froth going into next year. This will be an interesting generation indeed. Oh and the 360 now has more than 50k owners in Japan. Weird.

PS3 numbers aren't going up, they're just flucuating.  They're actually down quite a bit from a month ago.

Edit:  Also the PSP did a little under 400,000 in two weeks.  Maybe you meant three?  Still impressive though (I'm sure the Crisis Core PSP bundle which was limited to 77,777 helped a bit).

So does this mean it will be $400 USD? Because 399 in Euros is not that cheap. I guess it is much cheaper than before, but then again, I stopped caring when they announced the price originally. At $400 it would be priced right. Any higher and it just isn't worth it, I don't care what the ancillary selling points are (Blu-Ray player, etc.). It is a game console, and dropping backwards compatibility, well, while it sorta sucks, I suppose if you really wanted that sort of thing, you would be using a PC and not gaming on a console. It's not like backwards compatibility has ever been a huge selling point. Is the market too big these days that development houses cannot keep up with games? Or is it that the platforms are all too disparate to make for easy porting? Or is it that the console makers want to lock up exclusives and fuck each other thereby fucking the consumers who aren't willing to shell out money for all three consoles? Or is there something else I am missing? Then again, this is Sony. Even their eBook Reader is overpriced. It's awesome, but I don't need one that much.

I've heard that it's in Best Buy's computer system for $399 (for an Oct. 28th release if I'm not mistaken).

Totally bizarre.  I can't imagine buying a PS3 for PS3 content at this point (I only own one PS3 title but the PS3 does a really solid job of scaling up PS2 content for the hdtv).  Their enormous PS2 library is such a huge asset -- abandoning it makes no sense at all to me.

- Q

Nothing Sony has done with the PS3 makes any sense - why change now?

Edit: http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108

 :rofl:

Can we call it PS3 NGE?

Um...but they SAID the PS3 wasn't going to be backwards compatible. Are you arguing that they lied and that it will be, and that they said it wouldn't be just to confuse people?

As far as "no one who actually cares is even remotely worried", this thread proves that statement wrong.

Same. I bought a PS3 primarily to play PS2 games (i gave my PS2 to inlaws) and for Blu-ray. There's some titles coming that I want as well such as Little Big Planet and Folklore but there's no way I'd buy one that couldn't play PS2 games. Not even a chance, or at least not for another 12 months.

Think positive, people!

• PS2 sales are going to increase again.
• This might trigger another 360 price cut.
• Um...yeah, that's about it.

 :roffle:

Stupid move, they surely don't know their customers as good as they think they do :/

They should throw some $$$ at the PCSX2 guys to have them come and help them out.

Can Sony do anything right?

Outside of Square foolishly supporting the PSP (I have a PSP.  The system is ASS.) Sony just seems to be on an endless round of corporate speak that gets backturned every couple weeks because they clearly have no fucking clue what they are doing.

I might have bought a PS3 once they hit 200 bucks since there might be a handful of games worth buying by then.  (There aren't any now.)
It would replace my ancient PS2 that has serious issues running Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land.

But with all backwards compatibility gone, it just means ill grab a 100 dollar PS2 slimline and laugh at Sony for the rest of the current generation of systems.

A couple NIS Weeaboo games aren't enough to make me buy an overpriced machine with fuck all to play on it and a massive footprint of space wasting.
(Don't give a damn about hi def movie playing, just like the vast majority of people out there.  My 1080p upscaling DVD player solves that problem quite well thanks.)

If you were gonna wait till it hit 200 bucks, then what.the.fuck? And all to play a 10 year old wizardry game on it? Sounds like a personal problem to me.

As for the rest you: There, there now.

Step 4 is "sell many, many PS3 games".

I'm still looking for the game that makes me say, "Yeh, this game is worth six hundred dollars."

It helps that the 'six hundred dollars' part is coming down, but I still haven't found that game just yet...


No.

I'm still a bit appalled by the "fuck europe as long as we get the good stuff" attitude displayed in this thread.

with respect to sony's decision of scrappping ps2 compatability. I don't expect anything less than screwups from them, they have shown time and time again in the last to years they are incompetent and do not understand their product or their target demographic so I don't expect anything else from them.

I'm enjoying it, because the same model is launching in the US soon.

Yeah we can, because Nintendo owns Sony's ass.  That never should have happened.

When you all buy as many games as we do, you can be appalled.

No, I'm quite certain he can be appalled about everything he likes without your consent, schild.

I'm also pretty sure we can express self-interest in our consumerism without having to justify ourselves as well.

Nobody doubts that you can express self-interest or wants to deny you that. In this case it isn't self-interest though, but shortsightedness or stupidity. If you really think those changes made in Europe will not come to the US I've got a few bridges I like to sell you.

Aren't we already at that point?
(And that's excluding the dollar recently doing a papiersmark impression, of course - X billion sales where you're making Y profit per game is worth less than X/2 billion sales where you're making Y*3 profit per game).

Sony is so stupid. Xbox360 for me.

The 40 GB PS3 model will have no backwards compatibility at all (including software) (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/08/scee-no-plans-to-offer-ps2-backwards-compatibility-later-as-dlc/). Still no confirmation on whether or not the 40 GB verison for $400 is coming to the US, but I'm thinking it's very likely. The 60 GB version for Europe and 80 GB version for the US only had the PS2 graphics chip, so was using software emulation for the PS2, and all PS1 emulation was software.

I just can't help but think this is a fantastic fuckup.

I could swear there is confirmation from every source but Sony.  Sony isn't even just fucking up, they are fucking up and outright lying and backpedaling on almost everything. 

It's like the N Gage only on a much more vast scale.  (And with no visible worthwhile games to at least put it in the Saturn/Dreamcast camp of niche machines worth it for a couple titles.)

Their upper-level management is just awful, they change their marketing message every 5 minutes. "Rumble sucks -- err wait no, here have a rumble controller!" "Motion controls are a gimm-- err no, check out our motion controls!" "PS2 compatibility is in, err no it's software emu, err now it's out entirely!"

The fuck? What is going on here?

A great example of arrogance. Clearly they thought they could put out any system at any price and it would be a winner just by virtue of ZOMG PLAYSTATION!!! I have a longstanding hatred of MS but even I have to admit now that MS simply offers the better system. (If you can deal with returning it every 2 months lol)

Exact same thing Nintendo did to lose out to Sony.