f13.net

Since this is a Sports story that will impact fantasy teams, I figured I'd put it here. We need to get some hate going for this.

Michael Vick Charged with Dog Fighting (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070718/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_falcons_vick_indictment;_ylt=AmF28v8v9GJSE.TfHHbI1YzMWM0F)

If the shit in this story is true, Vick and all the thugs associated with this are pieces of shit that need to be flushed. There is no excuse, NONE for the kind of wanton brutality towards dogs that's being discussed here. If he's found guilty, 6 years isn't enough, IMO. I only hope the Falcons step up like the Bears did with Tank Johnson, and that the NFL office doesn't dick around with this one because Vick is a star. Pacman Jones gets a year and he's only just been indicted, Vick ought to at least be looking at half a season suspension for this.

I couldn't be happier. I have hated Michael Vick since he came into the league, and this pretty much justifies it all for me. I hope all those motherfuckers go to PMITA prison for nice long stretches (which, incidentally, is what their assholes will be doing).

QFMFT

As an animal lover and dog owner, this absolutely makes my blood boil. I hope they throw water on those assholes, string them up, and electrocute them -- all at the same time.

If he's guilty, I hope he gets significant hard time, goes bankrupt, finds himself sucking cock for heroin and eventually dies in a fire.  That's fucking reprehensible. 

EDIT: Banner day for humanity it is.  Here's some more fuckers that can get tossed into Vick's cell so they can all be lit on fire. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13708685/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people.

Stuff I heard indicated they'd been watching him since 2002 or so.  Guilt is hardly deniable, all you have to wonder about is the jury and prosecutorial fuck-ups.

Not mentioned in that story is the various ways the losing dogs were killed.  Drowning, throwing them to the ground until they died, electrocution in addition to the more humane shootings.

Now- reprehensible as the activity is -  I can understand the need to destroy a fighting dog that's wounded beyond fighting ability or has been trained to kill but won't fight.  What're you going to do, put them with a family and turn them into pets?   However, the methods used are crueler than even the supposed 'sport.'   That's a whole new level of fucked-up.

From what I understand from the various news sources I've read, they were not killing dogs that were wounded beyond fighting ability, they were just killing dogs which showed no inclination to fight other dogs.  I hope Vick gets locked away. 

In Atlanta, where Vick's name dwarfs all others in pro sports, about 46 percent of respondents in an overnight telephone poll conducted by Atlanta-based InsiderAdvantage think the Falcons should release Vick. About the same percentage said the team should keep him until a verdict is returned. About 8 percent of the 859 people polled had no opinion. The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Ok, two things from me since I live in Atlanta. One, the statement about Vick's name could only be written by someone who lived outside Atlanta, or a complete moron. The Falcons suck and they continue to suck for almost a decade, not to mention they've never won the damn thing. Since 1999, the Falcons have a 56-71 record. That's close to an entire season's worth of games under the .500 mark. The Braves won 14 straight divisions (pro sports record in any sport) and a World Series. Ask a sports fan who's better liked/followed/respected in Atlanta, John Smoltz or Michael Vick? Ask any chick on the street if they know Chipper Jones and/or Michael Vick. It's just too stupid of a statement to say he DWARFS other names in pro sports.

Second, Vick has what I like to call a bad case of "not cutting the ties" syndrome. A black athlete born in the housing projects has to cut the ties to the stupid, low-rent, illegal shit that he grew up with if he wants to be a successful man worthy of the kind of income he will make. White men in charge will tell him this, from the owners to the coaches to his agents. Unfortunately, this is what creates the schism that makes many black athletes reject the sound advice to better their careers. They consider it a racial thing to not forget where they came from and live from the streets, etc, etc. You've heard it all on the rap albums and the sounds bites. HOWEVER, ultimately it comes down acting like a professional and cleaning up your life, or acting like a thug and letting people use you until you crash and burn.

Vick's gonna get burnt badly on this one if it sticks, and he may never recover. Honestly, I won't shed any tears over it because he never learned the lesson from people who made the same exact mistakes before him, including his own damn brother.

It's amazing how few people are defending him. I expected to see a fair number of people saying it was no big deal. 99% of humanity now hates Michael Vick.

I've been following this on the local sports radio, and its making me sick. He's been indicted on sponsoring dogfighting, aquiring and breeding dogs for fighting, and for transporting dogs across state lines for the purposes of fighting. The guy is being accused of building a facility for the purpose of holding fights, which included fights to the death. There are reports of killing dogs by various means including strangulation and electrocution.

Ok, now let all that sink in. If he gets convicted on everything, and gets the maximum sentance, he could be facing six years in jail. Maximum. Woopdy-fucking-do.

Call me an animal loving hippy if you like, but that fucking pisses me off. For the lawyer types here, what type of pot related crime would get you up to six years in jail?

I've seen people in my town get busted for puppy rings that result in having to put down dozens of abused dogs, and the guy in charge gets a $500 fine.

Tell me, who would you rather having dating your daughter:
 - the guy that secretly grows pot in his basement and sells it
 - the guy that secretly scams the government with an insurance scam
 - the guy that secretly sets cats on fire for shits and giggles and doesn't have the moral compass to know that that is wrong

Guess which guy, if caught, gets off the easiest.

Sorry for politicalizing the sports forum.

The guy with the insurance scam.  He'll be buying me a retirement condo on the beach in 20 years.

What?

What, don't you speak incoherent rant?

Those girls are little serial killers in the making.

If the charges are true, he either electrocuted dogs that weren't attacking him or watched/directed it to happen. That's a subhuman form of behaviour, and is completely indefensible. People get more squeamish about cute pets being killed than some grown adults.

Actually a black friend of mine from Georgia that I work with defended Vick today. Somewhat. He basically said Vick might not have known what was happening at his house and that if he did he was stupid because the penalties for all this in Georgia are misdemeanors while in Va it's a felony.

Like I wrote on my blog, if he didn't know, the NFL should still suspend him for having a posse that ran wild on his property. He's a fucking idiot either way, it's just a matter of if he's a dog-killing idiot or not. I mean, Pacman Jones got suspended and he wasn't even indicted at the time, yet Vick is skating? Fuck that.

Have your friend read the indictment. There is no gray area as far as the charges. He was there and fully participating. The 'maybe he didn't know' defense ain't cutting it.

It also doesn't matter which state it was in.  They got him crossing state lines so they're felony charges, not state.

Well, Pacman had several offenses, this is Vick's first. That is the argument I'm hearing. (including from my friend.) I personally think he ought to be suspended at the least. I mean, in the business world, if you get accused of something this serious you get administrative leave, with or without pay. This should be the same.

On NPR, Humane Society dude talked about how Vick bet 20-30K or more on the dog fights. I guess when a dog lost its match, they derived entertainment out of putting it to a gruesome death. I don't buy that he didn't know what was going on at his house…

…I hope they fry his ass, but he'll probably get off with a slap on the wrist, and the NFL will even run positive pub for him… …it's not like he doesn't have a history ill behavior, and I've been one to support him despite those charges and incidents. But this is inexcusable…

Actually restores a bit of my faith in humanity. I mean, sure, we still treat other humans like shit -- but at least we're sticking up for the dogs. That's something. (And yes, I'm being serious).

I'm not sure what else could generate this much hate -- publically raping babies, maybe?

I think that is on Dick Cheney's to do list for the holidays.

Same with me. The people I work with here in Georgia are about a 50/50 racial split. The white guys all think he's a fucking idiot for this, save a handful. Half the black guys agree. About a quarter of the black guys think it's ridiculous and that he's being set up by his associates. The other quarter waffle on his involvement and want to wait and see.

I just don't get the racial thing. I guess it comes from a (somewhat deserved) deep distrust of police? I was outraged when the Rodney King cops got off, and I was equally outraged when OJ got off. If someone is guilty, I don't give a shit about their skin color. Mike Vick has been showing signs he is a moron with very bad friends (and relatives!) for some time now. It is not like this came out of left field.

From what I;m reading/hearing, a big part of the racial component seems to be that dog fighting itself is an accepted part of southern black subculture.  How accurate that is i couldn't say, but I've seen references to how many black athletes own pit bulls and rotweilers and other "tough" dogs and there appearance in hip hop and rap videos, movies etc.  It may not be racial so much as class related, but part of this story is watching who thinks this is a big deal and who thinks it isn't.

As a side note, having watching Michael Vick through college when he was a VT and I attended UVA, we got to see plenty of examples of his "poor judgement"  that continue up through this latest story.  From stomping a player lying on the field in a televised game, to the sleeping/giving alcohol to minors, to the "Ron Mexico" story, and lately the water bottle secret compartment... the guys an idiot and always has been.  Yes I am biased but even my most die hard VT friends can't defend him any more.

And I am so glad former UVA QB Matt Schaub made it out of that mess backing him up. :)

Uh, at the risk of sounding like I'm defending Mike, those first two were Marcus.  Go Hokies.   :|

I'd go with "class related" as well as racial distrust of cops.    Inner city lower class it's dog fighting, around here it's cock fighting.  Nether group see it as 'a big deal' and wonder what's the uproar about 'some stupid, brainless animals.'    That black folks don't trust police at all isn't a secret.   Combine the two and poof, folks who don't feel Vick's getting treated right.

My bad.  You're absolutely right.  I have for some reason merged both michael and marcus' stories together in a voltron family of crime.

Mike was the one who supposedly gave the GA womans herpes, right?   :-P

Actually, yes. Our latest dog was a fighting dog and is incredibly sweet and gentle even with our other dog. He's very affectionate with most strangers and even takes great pains to be careful around our 10 month old and loves to cuddle with him. A dog knows when you save them and are generally pretty grateful. Most breeds are as intellectually and emotionally developed as a 2/12 year old human and they do have memories. Unless they've been driven completely insane by years of abuse they go back to just being dogs fairly quickly - albeit with a few hang ups. For instance, Kongo (the new dog) has a seething hatred and distrust for black males, especially younger ones.

In general, dogs are much, much better than people.

Just curious, was this because his former abusers were black, or was he trained by white folk to hate blacks, or what? Cuz in vacuo, it doesn't really compute.

Oh, yes... his former owner was a black guy who apparently kept him  chained to the front porch when he wasn't fighting him.

The dog I had as a kid hated black males. We rescued her from the pound as a puppy, so we've no idea who her previous owner was. But for all of her 15 years, that dog would go apeshit over black people coming to the house, and was a lamb to anyone else. We certainly never trained her to attack a fly, much less humans but that's the way she was. I can only assume her previous abusive owners were black, or that a black person had abused her before we got to her.

Yup.  The angle that I don't see being covered, in light of this very discussion you and I are having, is that Marcus' behavior could very well have been influenced by hanging out at his brother's dog ranch.  Surrounded by money and sociopaths... when everyone was begging Mike to step in and talk sense into his brother, it's interesting to me that the lack of sense came from the same place.

Did he live in Atlanta?

Yes, in the South, owning a fighting dog is a sign of manhood around lower-class blacks. They don't have to actually fight them, most I know just use them as guard dogs. Lower class white folks usually are more into their trucks as a status symbol down here, and large collections of guns.

On the upper class side of things, both sides agree on what's best. Cars, Houses, and White women.

My feelings towards southerners that buy dogs strictly to be violent status symbols are no different than my feelings towards the folks up here that do it: I would like to shoot them all. In the balls. With a 12 guage.

Sad thing is I saw one driving in to work yesterday. Guy out walking a mangy (in the literal sense, it looked like the dog had mange) Rottie, complete with a wire cage muzzle. Yes, you should muzzle dogs that are prone to bite. Odds that this guy encouraged his dog to bite? Pretty high. My urge to run him over? Pretty high.

As an aside, every dog I've ever had (boxers, with the exception of the odd spaniel for quail / dove hunting) has never liked any black people that came to our house, from when I was a kid to an adult (oversized kid).  All raised by us/me since they were puppies.  I'm not sure if it was a smell thing (well, blacks DO smell different) or if they pick up on the fear thing - most blacks I've known/know were/are terrified of dogs.

But anyway, on to the crux of the thread - Fuck Michael Vick.  No sympathy for him whatsoever.  He'll probably get off with a wristslap, cop a deal, whatever.  He'll be back in the NFL next year.  Why?  Because he's a world class athlete who can throw a spiral.  As a dog lover and participant in dog rescue programs (again, boxers - it's a breed I love and know the most about) who has seen more than my fair share of abused dogs, this whole thing enrages me to no end.

Has Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson stepped in yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR30NzzSRis

My dog is like that, our neighboors are a family of 8 and my dog flips out when they're outside our house.

Al Sharpton condemned dogfighting, IIRC.

Al Sharpton is many things, but he's not stupid enough to defend something 95% of the American population can't stand, black-dominated or otherwise.

My dog just hates men, especially larger one. Scares the shit out of her, and she'll go running. Took her weeks to adjust to me. Was equally terrified of children -- I kept her leashed and under control whenever walking her, but if she saw or heard a kid she cowered behind me. It took a few months for her to adjust to my stepson (who was 5 when they met), but now she doesn't care about kids. Apparently, they're great for dropped food.

She's still terrified of strange men, other than my father for some reason. Mostly she'll just kind of watch them and hang around by me, but she's not above running for the hills if they get close (or biting if they get between her and an exit).

Nice thing about my dogs -- they bark up a storm at anything odd. I don't really worry about people breaking into my house, as noisy dogs are far better than any alarm.

My alarm has never shit on my floor, however.

You need to put some fiber in its diet.

Update on my black friend/coworker: He's now willing to concede that the feds have a case and Vick probably did it.

On another note, this conversation about dogs not liking alot of black people reminded me that my cockapoo I had as a child hated black people. She was a pound dog as well. It was really kind of embarassing to be honest because I'd get that look like "your dog must know you don't like black people". Which of course isn't the case. I ought to ask this friend of mine about his dog, he has a rotweiller, maybe it's a status thing as you guys said cause so does the other black male in my department, he has two I think.

Every dog I've had has something against black people. I think it's simply surroundings and smells. If your dog is constantly around white folks and then a completely dark man who has a new odor shows up, the dog is gonna go nuts. It has zero to do with racism and your dog picking it up. That's just some bullshit hippies and Al Sharpton toss out in their regular witch hunts.

I know Paelos. I'm just talking about the "look" I got. It also had a tinge of "if your dog keeps barking at me I'm gonna kick your ass!" Lol.