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f13.net General Forums => PlanetSide => Topic started by: Mrbloodworth on May 17, 2007, 01:57:56 PM



Title: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 17, 2007, 01:57:56 PM
You should give it a try.


There have also been 3 major additions, Expanded Combat deployable (http://planetside.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=67237&section=News&month=current)  (Link 2) (http://planetside.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=67214&section=News&month=current) as well as upgradeable wall turrets, the revamped sunderer (http://planetside.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=67270&section=News&month=current) (Link 2) (http://planetside.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=67224&section=News&month=current) , and soon (may 20th) 3 new pistols, a flamethrower (http://planetside.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=67287&section=News&month=current), and a new rifle (http://planetside.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=67294&section=News&month=current) , as well as the 4 year event.

And you should Check out this  video. (http://www.marcopolo.me.uk/PSMovies/PS_AD_LARGE.wmv) (Right Click Save As)

Here is a link to a sort of "Future timeline" for implementing things, its somewhat vague as it of course was made before they really started putting things on paper and designing it, but it will give you a glimpse to the thinking of the developers and the pace they hope to achieve.

Development for the next quarter (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=88000007204)

As a long time fan of this game, i hope you will excuse me attempting to bring the fun to more people, new and old. I look forward to reading more here in the feature.

Mr.B

EDIT: You can find me on the Emerald server, Terran Republic, i am always willing to help new players and am looking to expand my Outfits ranks. No prior experience necessary.
 




Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Sky on May 17, 2007, 04:02:32 PM
(http://www.worldwide-web.com/JeffreyBabad/Simpsons/Moleman/moleman.gif)


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Nebu on May 17, 2007, 04:04:50 PM
(http://images.usatoday.com/life/gallery/austin-powers/mole.jpg)


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Kitsune on May 17, 2007, 06:18:15 PM
Sadly, my sources tell me that Planetside is so utterly barren empty since the price hike and the end of the fodderside program that this guy may not be a mole, he might just be a player desperate for someone else to shoot.  It was just great timing of Sony to start putting a bunch of new stuff in the game AFTER driving all of the players away with price hikes (which the in-game ads were supposed to prevent) and throwing out the free fodder players.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 09:06:27 AM
No, Iím not a Mole ,i mean, i guess i am if you consider a player that enjoys his game and is just trying to get the word out. You guys can make your own minds up. To the post above, i think your friend is a little over exaggerating, while populations are not as they were during the height of Planetside, its not in dire straits yet. The emerald server still have a good amount of players (I cant comment on the others as I donít play on them) and really good fight most times. Planetside still has some of the largest fights available with over 300 on one continent at a time.  Allot of people did subscribe after the fodder, i see new users allot when i play. But i am not going to tell you that  the population is better than ever, its not dieing, but its not as many as it was during release. Its is a domino affect, but that can work both ways.

This weekend marks the 4 year event and the release of the new weapons, there are going to be some good massive fights, and events for most of the weekend.

Hope to see you there.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Nebu on May 18, 2007, 09:08:43 AM
Point taken. 

A group of us did give the game a go a few months back.  We played pretty seriously for a couple of weeks and interest faded.  Removal of the free level 6 program coupled to the price hike was quite a turnoff.  The game just can't justify that in today's market. 


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 18, 2007, 09:12:33 AM
Yep, pretty much. It was interesting, and was the first time I had played the game. Fun, but not that much per month fun. I also thought some of the sides were unbalanced, and the 'win continent, wake up, continent is lost' thing got to me after a while.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 09:14:31 AM
If you feel thats the case, i cant argue. I still really enjoy planetside, and have been reassured by the new developments. Planetside still provides many things that other FPS cant. Trust me, lol, i have played on and off over the years... It does get in your blood.

I still encourage you  guys to try it again

Planetside is one of those game where who you play with will affect your experience.

That, and it looks like you guys were dirty Vanu scum!



:p


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 09:16:42 AM
Yep, pretty much. It was interesting, and was the first time I had played the game. Fun, but not that much per month fun. I also thought some of the sides were unbalanced, and the 'win continent, wake up, continent is lost' thing got to me after a while.

Well, i can attest, the sides are balanced, the beauty of Planetside is in the fact each empire has strength's and weaknesses, but the balance does include other factors besides TTK. Knowing thoes will help you.

I can answer most questions if you guys want.

Thanks for hearing me.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 18, 2007, 09:17:09 AM
Also, the inventory management minigame really turned me off; not the optimizations part, but the part about having to be able to bring up your inventory and quick-switch items around to be viable in specific things (ACE for instance)

I totally disagree. Vanu got it right in the pooper. Let's talk about the chaingun, noobhammer, and the autoaim AA missiles, and then we can talk about balance. When every single character on a side has a single weapon, you may want to re-consider balance. I don't think I ever met someone without the chaingun on the entire TR side. Ever.

The other two heavy weapons were situational, but the chaingun is good in all environments. The major problem with the vanu weapons is if you are agaisnt two guys with regular wepaons with the lasher, you die and they both are <50% life. If you have the chaingun, you can take one with you.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 09:19:52 AM
Also, the inventory management minigame really turned me off; not the optimizations part, but the part about having to be able to bring up your inventory and quick-switch items around to be viable in specific things (ACE for instance)


The ACE? There is only one mode, or item rather that will not auto replace the ACE in your hand, thats the "Boomer", placing the boomer will leave your hand empty, due to the creation of the detonation stem.

Also, Right clicking any item in your innovatory will automatically place the right clicked item in an empty holster slot, or swap it out with whatever is in the appropriate holster slot.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 18, 2007, 09:24:59 AM
I did play, you don't need to explain it to me :)

And yes, of course, I'm talking about the boomer. Specifically, stealth suit boomers, either in combat or playing with inventory/lockers to take down a gen. I edited comment above with some other gripes. If you glance around at some other threads, I think I already outlined my gameplay whines elsewhere. There are others...

Don't forget the dumbfire AA switch strategy until they fixed it.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 09:30:39 AM
Also, the inventory management minigame really turned me off; not the optimizations part, but the part about having to be able to bring up your inventory and quick-switch items around to be viable in specific things (ACE for instance)

I totally disagree. Vanu got it right in the pooper. Let's talk about the chaingun, noobhammer, and the autoaim AA missiles, and then we can talk about balance. When every single character on a side has a single weapon, you may want to re-consider balance.

The other two heavy weapons were situational, but the chaingun is good in all environments. The major problem with the vanu weapons is if you are agaisnt two guys with regular wepaons with the lasher, you die and they both are <50% life. If you have the chaingun, you can take one with you.

Chain gun is NOT good in all situations. lol, Ever been in a hallway with two lasher users? Kill zone, nowhere to hide. As said,all the guns are situational, and knowing the limitations and strengths will help you out.

Heavy assault:
NC Jackhammer = Deadly at close range, means its highly effective indoors. Useless at range. Triple shots cool down leave the user Volnarable.
VS Lasher = Good at short to mid range, also has a lashing affect able to hit targets slightly off center. Included AV damage.
TR MCG = Good at range, decent indoors, high use of ammo. Cone of fire is its major limiting factor, as it will bloom if the user is hit by ANYTHING.

Like i said, Balance in Planetside includes more than TTK.

TR = More shots, less damage.
NC= Less shots, more damage.
VS = Mobility and versatility.

I did play, you don't need to explain it to me :)

And yes, of course, I'm talking about the boomer. Specifically, stealth suit boomers, either in combat or playing with inventory/lockers to take down a gen. I edited comment above with some other gripes. If you glance around at some other threads, I think I already outlined my gameplay whines elsewhere. There are others...

Don't forget the dumbfire AA switch strategy until they fixed it.

Cloaking is a hard life. You are wearing basicly spandex with a limited innovatory supply. Allot of cloakers are also Advanced hackers, allowing them to hack a console once in a base to resupply with, or pull a MAX unit.

I am definitely no expert in cloaking, as it not my thing, but i can point you to some good Guides if you would like.

As far as the Dumb-fire AA switch, your going to have to tell me what Empire and Gun before i can comment. Not sure what you are talking about.


EDIT: Cloaker Strategy http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=88000008317


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 18, 2007, 09:38:33 AM
You used to be able to unequip the Decimator (the only dumbfire anti-armor weapon in the game) and re-equip another (in effect doing an inventory swap) to reset the fire cooldown. If you were very good at this, you could take down a BFR solo.

I knew plenty of guides and used them when I played, but of course since I don't play anymore they would be somewhat useless. I'm sure there are people who play still, I'm just not one of them.

The rampant cheating was a real turnoff, too. The behind-the-camera shot allowing you to watch behind corners also made it extremely unbalanced IMO. You could argue they were just another way to play the game and to adjust, but I thought it was completely retarded for someone to have intelligence like that.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 09:40:37 AM
You used to be able to unequip the Decimator (the only dumbfire anti-armor weapon in the game) and re-equip another (in effect doing an inventory swap) to reset the fire cooldown. If you were very good at this, you could take down a BFR solo.

I knew plenty of guides and used them when I played, but of course since I don't play anymore they would be somewhat useless. I'm sure there are people who play still, I'm just not one of them.

The rampant cheating was a real turnoff, too.

Yes, that was fixed.

Np, i was just trying to answer your questions.

There really isn't that much "Cheating" in planetside. I have been playing for quite a while, and have only seen it a few times, most complaints of cheating are , well, not.
Of course i'm not a dev, so i have no real data. But i can say we have way less than say, Counter Strike, or the BF series. ;)

EDIT: What i meant by, it wasn't cheating is. Planetside was never built to take advantage of Dual core machines, one those started to become used, the extra core did some odd things in relation to planetside, people warped, seems to move faster ETC.... However, there have been a few patches that have corrected the issue, and they have instituted anti-hacking measures. I currently use a dual core machine now, and this is no longer an issue.

3ED person is a unique aspect of plantside. The same affect can also be achieved by an implant called Audio amp, however where some get the advantage of sight with 3ED person, Audio amp will let you "Hear" moving troops and represent them as Red dots on your radar. Its effectively the same thing, and isn't as restricted as 3ed person. But yes, some people love, and some people hate 3ed person, but everyone does have the ability. Command Rank 3 also has the ability to , for a time, reveal enemies positions, much like a time stamp.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 18, 2007, 09:56:29 AM
As someone who played with MAXs a lot, fighting against TR was a study in frustration; the Striker is beyond broken. Locking onto pretty much every besides regular infantry + rapid fire + decent damage. I mean, hell, you don't even have to try if you have a striker vs a MAX.

Also, some of the exploits, like the AMD64 = runhack stuff, got to be Really annoying.


The Lasher, while a good weapon, is overrated. Most times when I died to a Lasher, it wasn't because of the lash action; a regular rifle would have done the job as well.

I think the game would Really be helped if you could only carry one weapon heavier than medium assault at any one time; no more MCG + Striker, or Lasher + Lancer, or Double Decimators.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 10:06:53 AM
As someone who played with MAXs a lot, fighting against TR was a study in frustration; the Striker is beyond broken. Locking onto pretty much every besides regular infantry + rapid fire + decent damage. I mean, hell, you don't even have to try if you have a striker vs a MAX.

Also, some of the exploits, like the AMD64 = runhack stuff, got to be Really annoying.


The Lasher, while a good weapon, is overrated. Most times when I died to a Lasher, it wasn't because of the lash action; a regular rifle would have done the job as well.

I think the game would Really be helped if you could only carry one weapon heavier than medium assault at any one time; no more MCG + Striker, or Lasher + Lancer, or Double Decimators.


All a matter of perspective man.

The game is balanced, and as i have said, Its not just TTK that does it. For instance, I find the NC Phoenix very frustrating, I mean, its a TOW like missiles that camera guided, most times, the user is in an inaccessible location and guiding the missile up and around to your face, while he is completely protected.

The VS Lancer is like a sniper rifle, most times they are hitting you from far away, and in a direct line of fire.

See what I mean?

As a Max on the VS side, if someone uses the lock on on you with the striker, use your empire specific ability, JUMP, the Striker requires that you paint the target or the lock is lost.

TR maxes become immobile as there ability, this increases the rate of fire, but, makes them immobile. Making them Desi bait. Again, its more than TTK.

;)

EDIT: also wanted to add that the Striker does less damage per hit than the other Empire specific Grunt held Anti vehicle weapons.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 18, 2007, 11:32:33 AM
One, I'm not sure anyone here knows what TTK is...or cares, for that matter.

Let me continue with the rest of your stuff. The NC Phoenix and VS  Lancer? At least they take some actual Skill to use. Personally, I never had too hard a time avoiding them, though a Lancer will kill a Max very quickly out in the open. How is that balanced when compared to the Striker, that can empty an entire clip inside of 3 seconds, and can lock onto even a MAX?

Oh yeah, it's not, because it's Way Too Easy. Why do you think TR cried when they couldn't lock onto stealthed turrets? Because, wow, they would have to actually aim, or something.

Also...jump-jets as a means of avoidance are practically a joke. It's not like aiming up a bit is hard, and it's easier the further from you the attacker is.

The Striker might do slightly less damage than other AV weapons...but it's By Far the easiest to use and kill with. Hell, half the time the projectiles ignore terrain features once they are in the air, such as smaller trees.


Limiting what infantry could carry would go a long way to helping this game in my opinion; even players with high cert counts would have to make actual decisions as to what weapons to carry. No longer would they be able to counter practically any sort of attacker.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 12:06:46 PM
One, I'm not sure anyone here knows what TTK is...or cares, for that matter.

Let me continue with the rest of your stuff. The NC Phoenix and VS  Lancer? At least they take some actual Skill to use. Personally, I never had too hard a time avoiding them, though a Lancer will kill a Max very quickly out in the open. How is that balanced when compared to the Striker, that can empty an entire clip inside of 3 seconds, and can lock onto even a MAX?

Oh yeah, it's not, because it's Way Too Easy. Why do you think TR cried when they couldn't lock onto stealthed turrets? Because, wow, they would have to actually aim, or something.

Also...jump-jets as a means of avoidance are practically a joke. It's not like aiming up a bit is hard, and it's easier the further from you the attacker is.

The Striker might do slightly less damage than other AV weapons...but it's By Far the easiest to use and kill with. Hell, half the time the projectiles ignore terrain features once they are in the air, such as smaller trees.


Limiting what infantry could carry would go a long way to helping this game in my opinion; even players with high cert counts would have to make actual decisions as to what weapons to carry. No longer would they be able to counter practically any sort of attacker.

TTK = Time to Kill. As in how long it take to kill X with Y.

The Striker does not fire as fast as you are saying. It also has a dumb fire mode. The new additions will help specialization out, as they are not increasing the amount of Certification point.

Don't take this the wrong way, but allot of what you are saying is mostly opinion, and it seems you have some misconceptions..

Like i said,

Phoenix = TOW like missile, Slow to fire, Camera guided, heavy Damage per hit. Can be fired from cover (AKA: Behind things) Range: medium

Lancer = High Range (longer than the others) Direct fire shot, Little to no COF bloom, Good damage. Like a sniper rifle.  Range: Long

Striker = Has a lock on mode, Requires you paint the target, faster rate of fire, Lower Damage per hit. Also has a Dumb fire mode.  Range: Short (The missiles do not turn fast and crap out at a short distance as lock on is droped) Also travels slower than other missiles and is easily outpaced by any Aircraft with After burn.

The Decimator, a common pool Weapon, Fires a dumb fire missile at the target, The most susceptible MAX to this is the TR, as its lock down means it has no way to avoid it. NC maxes can absorbed one extra hit with its shield, or move out of the way of the slow firing missile, the VS can move (they are the fasted walking MAXes) or jump to avoid.

Again, Each empire has advantages and disadvantages, but thats not limited to a class of guns, it also carry over to different engagement areas.

NC= Indoors.
TR = Outdoors.
VS = Mobility and versatility, most notably, the ability to float over water, and maxes ability to fire while avoiding, and jump over walls or into towers from the top floor. Empire Guns have AV included, or is a secondary fire, instead of another AMMO type (innovatory space) Making them decent in both areas.

Maxes are technically treated as vehicles, and Lets not forget ,that other Empires also have devices that lock on (Maxes), its not just TR.

Keep in mind, Planetside is a Paper, Rock, Scissors game at its core, but there are things that overlap theses areas. Its not just Damage output that is used to balance. This meants there is no one gune that rules (ALA Quake and its rocket-luncher). The game is quite complicated.

Thanks for the conversation.  :-)


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 18, 2007, 01:01:14 PM
NC= Indoors.
TR = Outdoors.
VS = Mobility and versatility, most notably, the ability to float over water, and maxes ability to fire while avoiding, and jump over walls or into towers from the top floor. Empire Guns have AV included, or is a secondary fire, instead of another AMMO type (innovatory space) Making them decent in both areas.

Maxes are technically treated as vehicles, and Lets not forget ,that other Empires also have devices that lock on (Maxes), its not just TR.

The TR's big thing is filling a space with tons and tons of ammo. This works well enough outdoors....but it also works great indoors, where your ability to avoid is seriously hampered.

My big problem with TR is that while they have the highest Rate of Fire for pretty much all weapons, their accuracy does not suffer enough IMO. I could toss out tons of anecdotes, but what's the point? I got fed up with TR walking through groups of people while spamming the MCG, running out of ammo, and then swapping to their Other MCG. How is that balanced?

And on Lock-on, what do the other empires have that can lock on a MAX that is a ubiquitous as the Striker? I can't think of anything.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 18, 2007, 01:45:13 PM
NC= Indoors.
TR = Outdoors.
VS = Mobility and versatility, most notably, the ability to float over water, and maxes ability to fire while avoiding, and jump over walls or into towers from the top floor. Empire Guns have AV included, or is a secondary fire, instead of another AMMO type (innovatory space) Making them decent in both areas.

Maxes are technically treated as vehicles, and Lets not forget ,that other Empires also have devices that lock on (Maxes), its not just TR.

The TR's big thing is filling a space with tons and tons of ammo. This works well enough outdoors....but it also works great indoors, where your ability to avoid is seriously hampered.

My big problem with TR is that while they have the highest Rate of Fire for pretty much all weapons, their accuracy does not suffer enough IMO. I could toss out tons of anecdotes, but what's the point? I got fed up with TR walking through groups of people while spamming the MCG, running out of ammo, and then swapping to their Other MCG. How is that balanced?


As i have said, Ever been in a hallway with a Jackhammer user? Or a Lasher user? They can do the same thing, with the NC being king at close range, and the VS able to hit fleeing foes around corners or in small nooks in the hallways. Indoors is really the Domain Of heavy assault. With the lasher being the hardest to avoid, due to the lash.

Also note, that a little while ago, they changed it so that ALL Heavy assault guns take longer to "whip out" than say, Medium assault or lower. Pistols being the fastest to pull out.

Again, by class there is balance, but its also the arsenal as well for an empire that creates the strong points and weak points, its very situational.


Here are some guides.

Thye MCG: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=600010528

The Jackhammer: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=600007731

The lasher:  http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=88000007670 Take note of the post by Jimmy_jazz

Vanu MAX tactics : http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=600002074

Some of thees may be somewhat old, but have good info none the less.


I do have a question for you, Have you played Any of the other empires?

Also, you know you CAN loot the other empires guns after you kill them, if you have the same class Certification, you can use it.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 18, 2007, 04:44:42 PM
You sure are on a crusade, aren't you?

The problem with using another side's weapons is that as Vanu, I had better things to spend my points on. Because I'd get decimated in straight combat no matter where I was, there was no real point in trying to spec-and-scrounge. It was a much better plan for me to simply take UNI-MAX over the 3 rexo and 4 heavy weapon points for indoors and hope to god I could get a vechile for outdoors. Suggesting that I spend 7 points to scrounge other sides' weapons should give an indication of how crazy you sound.

Lash damage is insignificant unless it's being mass fired and is very sad compared to chaingun or jackhammer.

Technically, the weapons are supposed to be balanced, but Vanu requires a TON more skill all around and that makes their weapons sub-par due to the difficulty of use.

I played NC as well.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: tazelbain on May 18, 2007, 04:51:51 PM
I am am unwilling to make the time investment needed to become anything but fodder.  Gal drops were badass though.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 18, 2007, 06:27:59 PM
Mrbloodworth...did you even read was I wrote?

Also, please note that yes...we've all actually Played the game. We don't need a lesson on basics. Also, we actually played mostly NC. We swapped from Vanu because they were so damn horrible. The Lancer was nice, and their Max weapons were good, but pretty much everything else about them was sub-par.

Most of us played fairly heavily for about 2 months, at least. We've pretty much experienced all that all of the weapons and factions had to offer.

Vanu: Lancer was nice. Lasher was only worthwhile in groups, or against stealthers. Vanu MAX jumpjets are overrated, but neat. Their weapons were pretty balanced though. Mag was underpowered, under armored, and while the hover on water was cool, it wasn't always useful. Also, the hover made aiming as the gunner harder on most terrain.

NC: Phoenix was fun and versatile, but somewhat on the weak side (you could still kill a max in what, 5 shots?). JH was almost worthless beyond 15 meters. NC MAX shield is the best of the Max abilities, by far. It just raises your survivability too much to be ignored. Their weapons were all highly specialized, which could suck sometimes, but I found it to be an acceptable trade-off. NC Vanguard was a nice, balanced MBT.

TR: Striker is incredible on any kind of armor; it puts out decent damage, homes EASILY. If you have a clear shot at a target, you'll be Extremely likely to hit with at least half the clip. Totally embarrasses MAX users. MCG does decent damage per shot, throws out tons of shots quickly, and is still fairly accurate over range (perhaps more accurate than a personal chain gun should be). You can practically walk through people with this thing on. TR MAXs, for the amount of ammo they toss out, are a bit too accurate for my tastes. I've dueled TR maxes over extremely long ranges, and all of their varieties are more accurate than the NC flavors, while also pumping out more shots/second. Especially the AA max, which I found puzzling. TR Prowler was a beast. Sure you needed 3 people, but how hard is that when you spam the "need a passenger" macro in the CY?

Again, I think limiting all players to one weapon heavier than medium assault at any one time would help the game Tons. Also, it would give people a reason to actually use the medium assault weapons, which I found to be pretty good for all 3 empires.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 19, 2007, 02:43:36 PM
As one of the guys that both was a long time Planetside player (still play some), as well as part of the group from here that played for a month or so, I did have a couple of things to say to Strazos/Bhodi and those that stopped playing:

As I kept trying to drill things in, the issues you saw with various weapon sets (especially calling the lasher "weak") was mostly due to either improper understanding of the strengths//weaknesses of the individual weapon (lasher particularly), or improper application of the weapon to a situation.

The other main point was that many of the people played focused on individual play, and how "balance" related to it, as opposed to squad/platoon/outfit play (which is what the game is actually balanced against), and of course it comes up short since by definition weapons are not balanced to be "equal".

I'm not dogging you guys at all by any means, don't get me wrong, but I really found it interesting that we as a group went from the easiest empire to play at the squad level (Vanu, specificlally properly configured lasher squads), and moved to one of the more difficult/limited (NC).

It strikes me as frustrating that the "balance" concept in pretty much all MMO games always tries to work down to the "1v1" level, when that makes things so very limiting when it comes to cooperative play. From EQ1 all the way to Planetside, there is a mass user feeling that no matter what choice they make in their character, it should be a "balanced" one against another player--and until that expectation goes away, I don't think we'll truely see innovative squad/group/outfit/realm based mass warfare--but I do think myself it will happen eventually!


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Surlyboi on May 19, 2007, 03:01:12 PM
As one of the guys that both was a long time Planetside player (still play some), as well as part of the group from here that played for a month or so, I did have a couple of things to say to Strazos/Bhodi and those that stopped playing:

As I kept trying to drill things in, the issues you saw with various weapon sets (especially calling the lasher "weak") was mostly due to either improper understanding of the strengths//weaknesses of the individual weapon (lasher particularly), or improper application of the weapon to a situation.

The other main point was that many of the people played focused on individual play, and how "balance" related to it, as opposed to squad/platoon/outfit play (which is what the game is actually balanced against), and of course it comes up short since by definition weapons are not balanced to be "equal".

I'm not dogging you guys at all by any means, don't get me wrong, but I really found it interesting that we as a group went from the easiest empire to play at the squad level (Vanu, specificlally properly configured lasher squads), and moved to one of the more difficult/limited (NC).

It strikes me as frustrating that the "balance" concept in pretty much all MMO games always tries to work down to the "1v1" level, when that makes things so very limiting when it comes to cooperative play. From EQ1 all the way to Planetside, there is a mass user feeling that no matter what choice they make in their character, it should be a "balanced" one against another player--and until that expectation goes away, I don't think we'll truely see innovative squad/group/outfit/realm based mass warfare--but I do think myself it will happen eventually!

Actually, one of the bigger reasons for the move to NC was the effectiveness of its zerg. Granted, in small squad, tactical situations, the NC are more difficult to win with, but get a column of vannies backed up with a biffer or two and some outrider lightnings and air support and we were unstoppable. Straz sat gunner with me in my biffer on one of those days and that was what pushed him firmly into the NC is more fun column. I don't think it's so much that we didn't/don't understand how squad/outfit/realm based warfare could/should work, it's that 90% of the people playing any of these games don't.

Everyone but those that have been indoctrinated not to, wants to be a hero. That is the ultimate downfall of any and all MMOs.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 19, 2007, 04:12:10 PM
Honestly, when we got our shit together we pretty much rolled over everyone but the really organized groups/guilds. It was hella fun. Gal drops, dual infiltrators, squad combat -- It was the thing I most enjoyed. Unfortunately, once logins started to die off, and you played solo a lot, you started to really hate the game. As you say, the game was built and balanced around squad play, and unfortunately without a squad you got creamed.

With some of the weapons (the chaingun in particular) one experienced person could mow through you in the caves or could pull the tricks like watching in 3rd person on the roof of a tower with devastating results. The weapons helped. Two or three experienced people can take out two or three times their number. You simply get out played if you go with the zerg or are on your own, which is I guess expected, but is pretty much the only thing you can do when you're the only f13er online. It did get kind of demoralizing, since the general zerg had no interest in playing tactically. I went CE mostly to avoid situations like that. In the end, we simply didn't have a large enough pool of people to keep the planetside guild going during the evenings.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: gimpyone on May 19, 2007, 07:38:18 PM
I'd resub for another f13 group.  It was a blast.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 19, 2007, 09:42:08 PM
You know one other thing that made me firmly love the NC?

Their MAX units. Especially the personal shield. There were so many situations I survived that I would not have survived in either a TR or Vanu MAX. Sure, the TR can planty down and toss out tons of shots, but you're stuck to that spot, so you get killed easily. And sure, Vanu could fly around, but any competent player can aim up a bit.

That shield is just too damn clutch, ether when you put it on before you go around a blind corner, or tossing it on as you try to sprint away from assailants.

And even if their 3 variants were highly specialized, they were mostly still really good, and with skill, could be used outside of their ideal uses. I could still kill MAXs up close with a Scattermax, or still pick off infantry from decent range with the different chokes. And I could still pick off Infantry with the AV MAX (and it was really fun to lob those missiles at targets at extreme ranges).

Sorry, but the NC AA Max kind of sucked, even when used against air; it was pretty slow, and pretty weak. Also, it was practically useless against ground units.


Also, I wouldn't rule out re-subbing for a month in the future, if we had the people to play.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Surlyboi on May 19, 2007, 09:49:00 PM
One of my best PS experiences in recent memory was a base cap with Straz in a MAX and me hanging out down the hall with a a phoenix. He'd kick in the shield and spray the room around the corner and then I'd let loose with a camera guided rocket or two around the corner. We waxed about three MAXes and countless infantry that run and it was a fucking blast and a half.

I'm still subbed (Station Pass for the win?) and just waiting for a critical mass again.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 19, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
/cue maniacal laughter

I still remember me and Bhodi both playing stealthers in the woods. For at least a solid half hour, we raped the Vanu in those woods. I would toss plasma nades and stab people, while he dropped spits or scatter pistoled.

The best part is that it was practically us 2 and also Tragny sniping, vs about 25 Vanu. It's lovely seeing them all scatter and look about while they get attacked, and not be able to do much about it.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Jimbo on May 19, 2007, 10:18:56 PM
Man no one liked my driving?  :-(

I had fun, but being the type that would drive any vehicle it was hit or miss on gunners.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 19, 2007, 10:26:10 PM
Oh no man, I loved your driving...because you actually drove, instead of running into rocks, or over cliffs.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 20, 2007, 01:14:06 AM
On the NC max shield, I'd agree totally--in fact, I played in an outfit that did mostly max ops (as well as vannie columns), and basically our maxxes weren't allowed to fire--we were just there to soak up the first clip of MCG ammo so the softies could take them out.

Sadly though, if you've ever sat through trying to get NC to move into a base, it was one of the most frustrating things I've ever seen. The pheonix, being a "hide around the corner and shoot" weapon meant that people never wanted to move in, and with 90% of their empire specific weaponry being close range focused, it could be damned difficult just to get from the CY entrance to the front door against defenders.

As I said, each empire balanced against each other, with a specific strength for the most part.

BTW, if you liked cloak/pistol work, you are going to LOVE the new pistols--10mm, and they basically are one shot kills now, especially when well aimed as a cloaker. In fact, while the flamethrower is in worse need of balance (all damage goes directly to health, so maxxes are screwed big time), they will probably be tweaked down a bit, or at least I hope.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Kitsune on May 20, 2007, 04:01:41 AM
Wait, what?  A flamethrower hurts people in sealed power armor?  Vehicles and MAXes should be flat-out immune to flamer damage, much like elementals in Battletech.  Burning people only works when the flame can actually, y'know, reach them.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 20, 2007, 10:45:09 AM
Wait, what?  A flamethrower hurts people in sealed power armor?  Vehicles and MAXes should be flat-out immune to flamer damage, much like elementals in Battletech.  Burning people only works when the flame can actually, y'know, reach them.

Vehicles (even the open buggies, which arguably should be vulnerable to the flame) are immune, but no, maxxes are not. I don't think they thought that all the way through, and while in my opinion this just gimps maxxes further, I actually believe that PS's dev team agrees with many of the players that think "maxxes are too powerful", so it was probably intentional.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 20, 2007, 03:01:24 PM
MAXs are too powerful? Are you joking?

Hell, I've killed one as a stealther with only the scatterpistol before.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Kitsune on May 20, 2007, 03:11:44 PM
I killed a MAX with a beamer.  They are most assuredly not too powerful, by any stretch of the imagination.  They need to make the flamethrower hurt passengers in open vehicles and not hurt MAXes.  Well, not that it's any skin off my back, haven't played in over a year.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 20, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
MAXs are too powerful? Are you joking?

Hell, I've killed one as a stealther with only the scatterpistol before.

I'm not saying I agree with it--being triple shotted with decimators for the lose when you can't even dodge them due to your low mobility is one of the most frustrating things in the game.

However, maxxes have historically been considered "overpowered" by the "pure fps" folks, which is a majority of the PS long term player base.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Triforcer on May 20, 2007, 05:10:51 PM
Stephen, your comment about the 1v1 mentality is interesting.  I'd like to know what makes you think people will eventually get out of the 1v1 mindset, because I don't see it ever happening.  The simple fact of the matter, imho, is such:

1) A certain percentage of the playerbase will always be lone wolfing it, consciously eschewing guilds/squads/whatever;
2) Even the people IN squads will sometimes be playing when their buddies aren't on.

In both cases, people will find it grossly unfair if 1v1 balance is totally borked.  I am firmly in the no. 1 camp- the only reason I ever join guilds (as I did in WoW) is to just have a marker so I didn't look like a weirdo to others when trying to group for instances.  Its fundamental human nature for many people in online games to Rambo it. 


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: pxib on May 20, 2007, 09:16:35 PM
Yeah, this "squad based balance" thing sounds a lot like FORCED GROUPING.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Jimbo on May 21, 2007, 01:31:39 AM
I luv'd the combined arms approach, hated some of the infantry crap, and really liked driving like I was in the baja 1000.

I'm still waiting on the heavy tanks, that and give me a way to get the BFR a little easier.

I still have to sit in the courtyard and spam I need a gunner sometimes.  That and alot of people can't hit shit if I'm moving (one guy was really bitching that I stop so he can shoot then move...), so I tend to look for decent gunners.

VS vs NC vs TR...well they all have some good and bad.  All empires need people to roll vehicles more often, and I freakin hate mines!

Oh straz, I think you were a little miffed on the TR maxs vs NC max, the TR max is based off there assult medium rifle, so it's range is way out there...unlike ours which seems like a modified jackhammer ( I know they say it can reach out...but the better one was the TR),  one on one the TR anti inf max if he is in front of you early and has a lock down is going to hurt the NC anti inf max, but he is going to catch hell from all of the other maxes.  I usually went with anti armor or anti air NC max and only used the anti inf indoors.

What would make the game better?  I dunno...I spent most of my time in agile armor with a glue gun and pistol, from osuhr where we had to take light vehicles (that is a lot of fun), to lots of heavy fights.  I guess getting more people into the vehicles would help.  Also a daily reset (which they do anyway), daily winner (based on who holds it the longest during people online time, and then the other times), and more rewards (but let it go by account, not how long your character has been there).


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on May 21, 2007, 01:59:25 AM
In retrospect I don't have too much of a problem with the TR AI MAX, as I usually didn't have much of a problem getting close enough to curbstomp them with any weapon I had.

Though I still think the TR MAXs are generally a bit Too accurate, especially considering their RoF, even when they're Not planted.


The double-Deci and MCG/Striker combos are what Really got to me.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 21, 2007, 09:26:01 AM
Stephen, your comment about the 1v1 mentality is interesting.  I'd like to know what makes you think people will eventually get out of the 1v1 mindset, because I don't see it ever happening.  The simple fact of the matter, imho, is such:

1) A certain percentage of the playerbase will always be lone wolfing it, consciously eschewing guilds/squads/whatever;
2) Even the people IN squads will sometimes be playing when their buddies aren't on.

In both cases, people will find it grossly unfair if 1v1 balance is totally borked.  I am firmly in the no. 1 camp- the only reason I ever join guilds (as I did in WoW) is to just have a marker so I didn't look like a weirdo to others when trying to group for instances.  Its fundamental human nature for many people in online games to Rambo it. 

A guess more than anything else. Audiences mature, markets evolve. Currently, in my opinion the large portion of PvP focused players seem to have evolved from FPS games, while the PVE/PVP- folks seem to have come primarily from the MMORPG camps. Obviously, most FPS games focus on individual skill, and if it's cooperative, it's not necessarily due to any combined arms factor, but more of basic teamwork and communication.

To an extent, games like PS are pushing for cooperative play, but calling this "forced grouping" is like saying that flying a B-52 (because it requires a crew to fly) is "anti-pilot". It's not people trying to force you specifically to group, it's a gameplay style that is focused on combined arms and the benefits thereof.

Just an anecdotal example (that may or may not be on point): You don't hear a lot of people bitching about how Guild Wars isn't "balanced" at the 1v1 level--there isn't even any 1v1 PVP content available directly as far as I am aware. People innately understand/accept that it's a team combat based game, and go with it. Sure, people want the best template they can have, but I remember endless conversations on the SB boards regarding how each template should or should not be able to defeat any other template, and it's my firm opinion that a game like that isn't "balanced", it's simply boring.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: pxib on May 21, 2007, 10:13:44 AM
You don't hear a lot of people bitching about how Guild Wars isn't "balanced" at the 1v1 level--there isn't even any 1v1 PVP content available directly as far as I am aware. People innately understand/accept that it's a team combat based game, and go with it.
There's nothing innate about that acceptance.

About 10% of all Random Arena matches start with a warrior from one side (it's always a warrior) saying "anyone want to fight 1 on 1? Then anybody who isn't a monk, ritualist, or paragon will always pretend that the rest of their team doesn't exist because they've explicitly designed their character to kick ass solo. They remember the team once they've died, of course, "OMG NOOBS, rez plz!!!" They will also bitch about unbalanced individual specs and elites, both in the game and on the forums, and ArenaNet has occasionally had to nerf abilities that are totally acceptable in both PvE and group PvP but slightly unbalanced 1v1 because once those skills and their builds became well-known, 99% of that class in the random arena started using them.

The innate, intuitive understanding (fostered by years of single-player gaming) is that "This character sucks unless it can win every possible fight on its own," and more sophisitcated viewpoint must be beaten into players' skulls with a club dipped in tar and broken glass. Maybe markets will evolve, but I haven't seen much evidence yet.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Surlyboi on May 21, 2007, 11:31:03 AM
A few thoughts after playing with the new toys last night.

The new pistol? Not bad. Two shots to kill a damn dirty cloaker, not bad at all.

The rocket launcher? meh. Now, maybe I was using it wrong, (and that is a distinct possibility) but all it managed to do was make me a prime target of whatever group of toons it dropped its load on.

Finally, the flamethrower. Got a third person corner hugger problem? Sunburst up the stairs and toast the bitch. Problem solved.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 21, 2007, 01:33:56 PM
Wow, so many responses.. I will try to do this in one post so there may be quite a few edits.

You sure are on a crusade, aren't you?

I love this game. I am not, however, trying to convince anyone that they were having fun when they were not, that would be stupid.



The problem with using another side's weapons is that as Vanu, I had better things to spend my points on. Because I'd get decimated in straight combat no matter where I was, there was no real point in trying to spec-and-scrounge. It was a much better plan for me to simply take UNI-MAX over the 3 rexo and 4 heavy weapon points for indoors and hope to god I could get a vechile for outdoors. Suggesting that I spend 7 points to scrounge other sides' weapons should give an indication of how crazy you sound.

I wasn't suggesting anything. I was simply stating that you do have the ability, if you have the certification to use other empires guns. It was my way of implying that you seem to need to spend some time with the other guns before making such statements as "The lasher requires more skill" or "its weak". Because its not true, each has strengths and weaknesses. The skill is in knowing and mastering them.




Lash damage is insignificant unless it's being mass fired and is very sad compared to chaingun or jackhammer.

Another misconception.

The lash damage is 8 points, thats the SAME damage as each bullet from a MCG, only its near impossible to miss (with the lasher) in a good number of situations. You can miss, and do miss with the MCG, as an MCG user, any hit, even the lash, WILL bloom your COF to where you are shooting wildley, the jackhammer will kill in 3 hits at close range, and sucks at long ranges. Again, each has strengths and weaknesses.

Your focusing on damage output, and TTK. But this is an age old debate thats 4 years old now. The guns have had 4 years of Live "balance", they are balanced.


Technically, the weapons are supposed to be balanced, but Vanu requires a TON more skill all around and that makes their weapons sub-par due to the difficulty of use.

I played NC as well.

You played all but the empire you are saying is overpowered. Grass is greener? The guns are balanced, from clip size, to Rate of fire, to ammo box size, to Special ability's or secondary fires, to range. The VS are the most mobile, and "universal" empire. The lasher also has Anti armor included in its damage, the other two empires require an different ammo type, AND a reloading swapping of that ammo, the Lasher (HA) has it included, and the pulsar(MA) has a instant secondary mode with one right click.

I am am unwilling to make the time investment needed to become anything but fodder.  Gal drops were badass though.

Fair enough, i wasn't a fan of the price hike as well, and i was sad the Fodder program ended, i'm currently trying to get that back to the best of my ability.

Mrbloodworth...did you even read was I wrote?

Yes i did. But you have some misconceptions.

Also, please note that yes...we've all actually Played the game. We don't need a lesson on basics. Also, we actually played mostly NC. We swapped from Vanu because they were so damn horrible. The Lancer was nice, and their Max weapons were good, but pretty much everything else about them was sub-par.

I understand this, but you are still using terms such as "Sub-par", when this isn't the case, the correct term would be different. The VS have Tanks that can ride over water, ignoring bridges, there maxes jump, allowing them to go where no other empires maxes can go and have more maneuverability than the other two empires, the walking speed is even faster..

Most of us played fairly heavily for about 2 months, at least. We've pretty much experienced all that all of the weapons and factions had to offer.

I have played for 4 years, and i can say, with your responses, i know this isn't the case.

Vanu: Lancer was nice. Lasher was only worthwhile in groups, or against stealthers. Vanu MAX jumpjets are overrated, but neat. Their weapons were pretty balanced though. Mag was underpowered, under armored, and while the hover on water was cool, it wasn't always useful. Also, the hover made aiming as the gunner harder on most terrain.

NC: Phoenix was fun and versatile, but somewhat on the weak side (you could still kill a max in what, 5 shots?). JH was almost worthless beyond 15 meters. NC MAX shield is the best of the Max abilities, by far. It just raises your survivability too much to be ignored. Their weapons were all highly specialized, which could suck sometimes, but I found it to be an acceptable trade-off. NC Vanguard was a nice, balanced MBT.

TR: Striker is incredible on any kind of armor; it puts out decent damage, homes EASILY. If you have a clear shot at a target, you'll be Extremely likely to hit with at least half the clip. Totally embarrasses MAX users. MCG does decent damage per shot, throws out tons of shots quickly, and is still fairly accurate over range (perhaps more accurate than a personal chain gun should be). You can practically walk through people with this thing on. TR MAXs, for the amount of ammo they toss out, are a bit too accurate for my tastes. I've dueled TR maxes over extremely long ranges, and all of their varieties are more accurate than the NC flavors, while also pumping out more shots/second. Especially the AA max, which I found puzzling. TR Prowler was a beast. Sure you needed 3 people, but how hard is that when you spam the "need a passenger" macro in the CY?

A lot of that is opinion, and some of it is wrong. But it does show a bias to the TR, which many players would disagree with you. The lasher is murder in the hands of experienced users. Same case with all the weapons.

Again, I think limiting all players to one weapon heavier than medium assault at any one time would help the game Tons. Also, it would give people a reason to actually use the medium assault weapons, which I found to be pretty good for all 3 empires.

I use Medium assault and special assault almost exclusively, i have no issues taking out Heavy assault users. Medium assault has a strong role in this game, its not all about heavy assault.

As far as the one HA gun at a time, all empires do this, Dual jackhammers, dual MCG's and yes, even dual lashers to avoid the reload time.
Again, the balance isn't just damage output, its also ability's, and situations. Each empire has something that is better in some situations than others, across empires, things are balanced, across gun certification's, some shine in some instances than others and that crosses between all Empire specific things.

I feel this is the beauty of Planet side when compared to other FPS games where there is typically one play style and one gun that rules everything.

As one of the guys that both was a long time Planetside player (still play some), as well as part of the group from here that played for a month or so, I did have a couple of things to say to Strazos/Bhodi and those that stopped playing:

As I kept trying to drill things in, the issues you saw with various weapon sets (especially calling the lasher "weak") was mostly due to either improper understanding of the strengths//weaknesses of the individual weapon (lasher particularly), or improper application of the weapon to a situation.

The other main point was that many of the people played focused on individual play, and how "balance" related to it, as opposed to squad/platoon/outfit play (which is what the game is actually balanced against), and of course it comes up short since by definition weapons are not balanced to be "equal".

I'm not dogging you guys at all by any means, don't get me wrong, but I really found it interesting that we as a group went from the easiest empire to play at the squad level (Vanu, specificlally properly configured lasher squads), and moved to one of the more difficult/limited (NC).

It strikes me as frustrating that the "balance" concept in pretty much all MMO games always tries to work down to the "1v1" level, when that makes things so very limiting when it comes to cooperative play. From EQ1 all the way to Planetside, there is a mass user feeling that no matter what choice they make in their character, it should be a "balanced" one against another player--and until that expectation goes away, I don't think we'll truely see innovative squad/group/outfit/realm based mass warfare--but I do think myself it will happen eventually!

What can i say, Stephen has it. BTW, /wave. Same MrBloodworth from over at GG.

Planetside is definitely a squad based game, its quite tactical, without tactics, you can survive, and solo is a viable option, but the game is oriented to teamwork. This is not the same as forced grouping, there is nothing IN Planetside that cannot be killed by one person of ability's, and a day 1 noob can kill a 4 year veteran like myself. Another beauty of planet side. And with that said, is more "Balanced" than any other FPS, including The battlefield series, where older player are given BETTER weaponry, not different or situational.

Honestly, when we got our shit together we pretty much rolled over everyone but the really organized groups/guilds. It was hella fun. Gal drops, dual infiltrators, squad combat -- It was the thing I most enjoyed. Unfortunately, once logins started to die off, and you played solo a lot, you started to really hate the game. As you say, the game was built and balanced around squad play, and unfortunately without a squad you got creamed.

Sounds great! Thats they way you do it.

With some of the weapons (the chaingun in particular) one experienced person could mow through you in the caves or could pull the tricks like watching in 3rd person on the roof of a tower with devastating results.

This keeps getting said, and i still need to say. The jackhammer is the worst for this, not the MCG. Each HA gun can do this. In fact, one of the most annoying to use the 3ed person tactics is the NC, as its nearly inescapable. I'm going to chock this statement up to never being on the receiving end of a lasher or jackhammer in the same situation.


The weapons helped. Two or three experienced people can take out two or three times their number.

Good player are good players.

You simply get out played if you go with the zerg or are on your own, which is I guess expected, but is pretty much the only thing you can do when you're the only f13er online. It did get kind of demoralizing, since the general zerg had no interest in playing tactically. I went CE mostly to avoid situations like that. In the end, we simply didn't have a large enough pool of people to keep the planetside guild going during the evenings.

The solution to this is to join a more active outfit and become involved in it. If you guys wanted to play TR, i would welcome you. My outfit is not the most active in the world (One of the first to be created), but we have regulars and regular nights we play.  Alot of play casualty, but we are a very team based outfit, and we like to have allot of fun.

A few thoughts after playing with the new toys last night.

The new pistol? Not bad. Two shots to kill a damn dirty cloaker, not bad at all.

The rocket launcher? meh. Now, maybe I was using it wrong, (and that is a distinct possibility) but all it managed to do was make me a prime target of whatever group of toons it dropped its load on.

Finally, the flamethrower. Got a third person corner hugger problem? Sunburst up the stairs and toast the bitch. Problem solved.

I have been enjoying them also, they are all very situational, so i do not think they will upset things. The Flamethrower is a 3 year requirement to use (after the event).The scorpion take allot to get used to, i completely suck at at it, but i have seen some people do amazing things with it lol. Definitively a very situational weapon that take considerable practice to use.

And yes, the flamethrower is your ANTI wall hugger (3ed person) answer, this included maxes, if you are stupid enough to get close, you will burn (its range is really short), and the screaming they added to burning grunts, classic, cracks me up every time!

I read someone above said there should be things unlock able not based on character age. There are, there are a few items that are only unlock able by achieving a merit, mostly they are variations of what ever it was you were using. An example of a Horizontal progression instead of a vertical one in regards to power.

In retrospect I don't have too much of a problem with the TR AI MAX, as I usually didn't have much of a problem getting close enough to curbstomp them with any weapon I had.

Case in point, TR locks down, you would have a hard time doing this to a VS max. As i said, the VS maxes turn faster, and walk faster than the others, An NC max would have just turned on the Shield, and turned.. The VS could have jumped, or just whipped around, the TR have a large disadvantage in the lock down, It may increase there fire and accuracy, but it also restricts the area they can fire in, and they can't fire while unlocking and locking down.


Though I still think the TR MAXs are generally a bit Too accurate, especially considering their RoF, even when they're Not planted.



The double-Deci and MCG/Striker combos are what Really got to me.

Each empire has an equivalent.





All in all, i read all of you had a good time playing, despite the complaints and misconceptions. All i ask, is that you give it another go, there are even new toys. My invitation to come play with us is still open, we could use some good players, and its all about fun anyway.

Thanks again for reading and letting me visit.



Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Sky on May 21, 2007, 03:21:54 PM
I agree PS is like most good fps games, with the need for forced grouping. Unlike most mmo, though, I like it when dealing with fps-style gameplay.

Unfortunately, the reasons I don't group have little to do with philosophy (though that certainly factors in), and more to do with time constraints. So though I enjoy PS, I'll never be a regular player because I just don't have the kind of time it takes to be involved with a good outfit.

Also, my station pass is up in a week because it's summer and I don't game as much during these months coming up. We'll see where PS is come next fall.

Oh, and my favorite weapon? Thumper. I'm crazy for grenade launchers. Seriously. They're all I want in any game.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: bhodi on May 21, 2007, 03:34:32 PM
The new weapons have time-based requirements? What a terrible move. You don't need to give veterans more ways to kill people with less time invested than themselves. When you have an ablating player base, you need to hold on to every new sub (or resub) you can get. Getting mauled by shiny new weapons that aren't for you definitely doesn't help.

As for the weapon balance issue, it's been played over and over again and I guess there isn't much more to say on that score.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: shiznitz on May 21, 2007, 03:39:32 PM
My favorite weapon? The ATVs. I once took out a skeeter with the Fury. I was smiling for a week after that one at the thought of the pilot's "WTF?!"

PS is also the ONLY game that has balanced stealth properly in PvP. If I ever designed a MMOG with PvP and stealth, I would pull heavily from the PS model.

Quote from: bhodi
The new weapons have time-based requirements? What a terrible move. You don't need to give veterans more ways to kill people with less time invested than themselves. When you have an ablating player base, you need to hold on to every new sub (or resub) you can get. Getting mauled by shiny new weapons that aren't for you definitely doesn't help.

At this point they are catering to the existing playerbase of which only smal minority are NOT 2 year vets, I imagine. All efforts to get new players have evidently failed so they cancelled Fodderside and raised the price on those that won't quit no matter what.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 21, 2007, 03:45:12 PM
The new weapons have time-based requirements? What a terrible move. You don't need to give veterans more ways to kill people with less time invested than themselves. When you have an ablating player base, you need to hold on to every new sub (or resub) you can get. Getting mauled by shiny new weapons that aren't for you definitely doesn't help.

As for the weapon balance issue, it's been played over and over again and I guess there isn't much more to say on that score.

Only the flamethrower.

However, the last gun added for a birthday became:

Vets: use it with no cert required
Everyone else: Required Sniping to use.

This may also happen.

EDIT: Fodderside was slated to end on that date when it started. The price hike was explained that Vanguard had been added to the station pass. And to be honest, the price hike came before all this new development, so this may be where the funding is coming from.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 21, 2007, 03:56:21 PM
You don't hear a lot of people bitching about how Guild Wars isn't "balanced" at the 1v1 level--there isn't even any 1v1 PVP content available directly as far as I am aware. People innately understand/accept that it's a team combat based game, and go with it.
There's nothing innate about that acceptance.

About 10% of all Random Arena matches start with a warrior from one side (it's always a warrior) saying "anyone want to fight 1 on 1? Then anybody who isn't a monk, ritualist, or paragon will always pretend that the rest of their team doesn't exist because they've explicitly designed their character to kick ass solo. They remember the team once they've died, of course, "OMG NOOBS, rez plz!!!" They will also bitch about unbalanced individual specs and elites, both in the game and on the forums, and ArenaNet has occasionally had to nerf abilities that are totally acceptable in both PvE and group PvP but slightly unbalanced 1v1 because once those skills and their builds became well-known, 99% of that class in the random arena started using them.

The innate, intuitive understanding (fostered by years of single-player gaming) is that "This character sucks unless it can win every possible fight on its own," and more sophisitcated viewpoint must be beaten into players' skulls with a club dipped in tar and broken glass. Maybe markets will evolve, but I haven't seen much evidence yet.

I don't know about Guildwars, as that is one of the few i haven't played.

But i think in respects to Planetside, most of the solo, or "Balanced" notions come from the FPS genre, where rockets kill instantly, head shots rule, and everyone basically uses the same things and very little combined arms are necessary.

Case in point, The BFR, originally they had a week spot, and the shield would basically eat anything above a 12mm round, large caliber guns we worthless agent them. Alott of the "I shot it and it doesn't die" crowed complained. ignoring the original intention of grunts being its Achilles Heel. There is a small Shield generator that only takes a few hits to drop its shield, allowing anything and every thing to hit it at that point. But this required to much teamwork.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 21, 2007, 04:00:04 PM
Hey MrBloodworth--good to see you :)

You mentioned TR--what server, and what outfit? I'm in Adult Entertainment atm, Emerald iirc (I can never remember which is which--the east coast server).

As either NC or TR, the absolute biggest tactical scenario I hate beyond reason due to it's difficulty to overcome: encamped VS in an interlink lobby--and it's 70% IMO due to the lasher. All other scenarios are pretty much handled by proper application of tactics (over time at least), but that one is damned near impossible.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 21, 2007, 04:11:21 PM
Hey MrBloodworth--good to see you :)

You mentioned TR--what server, and what outfit? I'm in Adult Entertainment atm, Emerald iirc (I can never remember which is which--the east coast server).

As either NC or TR, the absolute biggest tactical scenario I hate beyond reason due to it's difficulty to overcome: encamped VS in an interlink lobby--and it's 70% IMO due to the lasher. All other scenarios are pretty much handled by proper application of tactics (over time at least), but that one is damned near impossible.

Bastard Battalion, part of the ULTRA alliance. I play with the Adult Entertainment peoples often. (emerald)

Ah yes, the interlink. The layout of that base makes for a long siege, due to the fact you MUST pass by the Spawn room to get to ANY base sensitive areas, such as the generator or the Command center.( Also that base type grants the holding empire the ability to see ALL enemy units in its SOI)

I do believe that the flamethrower was/is an attempt to clear out the stalemates that happen at interlinks and towers. (9 times out of 10 in a tower there are a few Jackhammer users using 3ed person and just killing, not hacking).

But yes, the lasher is deadly at an interlink, due to its layout of its lobby, and the halls down bellow.lashers fireing down the halls is like the sweeper form labyrinth disco style, lol.

(http://www.geocities.com/loveeminemforever/sarahhoggle_cleaners.gif)

The solution is time, and Max crashes. I'm not yet sure of the impact of the Flamethrower on an interlink yet however.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Surlyboi on May 21, 2007, 04:32:12 PM
Four year vet here too, I've played TR. Still think they're overpowered. The only thing keeping them in balance is the fact that a large proportion of that particular empire are asshats or have overspecialized in one particular discipline.

That said, I agree with most of your other observations.

Still waiting for the Gal gunship and the stealth troop transport though.



Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Stephen Zepp on May 21, 2007, 04:57:52 PM
Hey MrBloodworth--good to see you :)

You mentioned TR--what server, and what outfit? I'm in Adult Entertainment atm, Emerald iirc (I can never remember which is which--the east coast server).

As either NC or TR, the absolute biggest tactical scenario I hate beyond reason due to it's difficulty to overcome: encamped VS in an interlink lobby--and it's 70% IMO due to the lasher. All other scenarios are pretty much handled by proper application of tactics (over time at least), but that one is damned near impossible.

Bastard Battalion, part of the ULTRA alliance. I play with the Adult Entertainment peoples often. (emerald)
Ahh...Vladimir here. I was in Wolverines a long time ago back when ULTRA was first forming.

Quote
Ah yes, the interlink. The layout of that base makes for a long siege, due to the fact you MUST pass by the Spawn room to get to ANY base sensitive areas, such as the generator or the Command center.( Also that base type grants the holding empire the ability to see ALL enemy units in its SOI)

I do believe that the flamethrower was/is an attempt to clear out the stalemates that happen at interlinks and towers. (9 times out of 10 in a tower there are a few Jackhammer users using 3ed person and just killing, not hacking).

But yes, the lasher is deadly at an interlink, due to its layout of its lobby, and the halls down bellow.lashers fireing down the halls is like the sweeper form labyrinth disco style, lol.


The solution is time, and Max crashes. I'm not yet sure of the impact of the Flamethrower on an interlink yet however.

Actually, the best thing I've seen is 1-2 good outfits picking the entrance that is opposite the zerg, and hoping for a well timed zerg rush. A combination of top push, fd push, and sneaking in BD tends to eventually work your way in.

Having used the flamethrower some, there's no way it's going to help front door attacks with an interlink--the stairs and railing fire lanes are at least 2x the range of the flames. It will probably be more useful in the upstairs lobby, since the firing lanes aren't particularly lengthy (you can surge right in and unload quickly), but even so there are so many fire lanes, and the 3 min timer on the dragon will tend to mitigate it's usefullness severely imho.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Surlyboi on May 21, 2007, 05:14:29 PM
And therein is where the starburst mode comes in handy. Range is still relatively short, but it's got just enough oomph to pop some fire on the front line of defenders.

Of course, you'll need coordination with your own zerg or they're gonna get burned too.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 22, 2007, 09:06:52 AM
Four year vet here too, I've played TR. Still think they're overpowered. The only thing keeping them in balance is the fact that a large proportion of that particular empire are asshats or have overspecialized in one particular discipline.

That said, I agree with most of your other observations.

Still waiting for the Gal gunship and the stealth troop transport though.



Now that the 4 year stuff is out of the way, i think thats stuff is next on the list.


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Jimbo on May 22, 2007, 10:13:29 AM
Yeah and I'm still waiting on heavy tanks.

Mrbloodworth, I'm not sure what you are rambling around about, but there is some legit bitching about certain things, and even if you think it is balanced, well that is your opion.

MCG's still seem to own more than the Jack or the Lash.  I say this from the fact that I see a lot of people picking them up and using them if from the other empires, and the fact that in close combat that is common in planetside when you are out of your vehicles the MCG is a great choice.

Your statement on that BFR's should have kept their supper shield is the same thing I bitched against.  I'm a driver, I love to drive tanks, I love to drive buggies, I love to drive delivers and there variants, hell I've even sticked Gal's when needed.  The BFR shield would have made it easier for them to own an armored colum.  And hell you don't see alot of that anymore either.  When was the last time you saw people rolling out 2 tanks, 4 APC's (uptill recently the raider if fully crewed would have been the best set up), 4 scouts/support (empire buggies x 2--great speed and firepower and flag running, 2 skyguards) and an AMS.
To do that if you were TR would require
6 in the tanks (need 3 in each tank)
20 in the raider (5 in each)
6 in the buggie (3 in each)
4 in the skyguard (2 each)
1 in the AMS
That is 37 people in a paltoon.  They bring a hole helluva alot of hurt on anything in their path while mounted, and when they dismount, let say that all but the drives were in rexo and had MCG's and Strikers that would be one helluva base clearing.  The problem TR has is fielding that many and keeping it together (hell that is all the empires though).  BTW, tanks function like tanks in TR and NC, I'll get to that bitch in bit.

Buggies are pretty balanced, slight edge to the Van for the nice buggie they have, but they are really hard to learn to drive.  Van have a nice all purpose (which in the scout role is great) buggie, it can engage any type of enemy (as long as it remember to hit and get the hell outof dodge), can take a few hits, and can go lots of places (this is the vehicle that makes water crossing so much nicer).  TR is hell on wheels against infantry and pretty tough and fun...just hate aircraft with it.  NC's is pretty good against all (but hard to nail infantry since the rocket doesn't splash much...great agains aircraft or vehicles), good all around as far as handling.

Tanks!  Vanu got robbed.  The Magrider is supposed to be great because it can go anywhere, is faster, can turn great, and has a longer range main gun.  Truth is, it is hard for people to learn to drive (new players have spoken up about the ease of the NC/TR treads to get them where the want to go), hard for the gunner to get a hit (little splash damage), main gun does less damage (about 21 shots to destroy another tank, vs 12 for the prowler on it and 8 from a vanguard to kill it), can't stay up in the fight and provide support as long (when your pressing a base you want the infantry to have cover while you advance, if your tanks have to run and heal because they are getting chewed up quicker it sucks), and have to be used more in a light tank version than a medium tank version.  Most of planetside terran doesn't allow for the added range to come into play.  The other two tanks are pretty well matched and can provide the support needed to advance and hold a position.

Light tanks haven't got any luv...  :sad_panda:  they need something to make them a little more fun, sometimes I think the ATV's are a better choice.

BTW, who is the idiot that thought all those freakin mines were a great idea!  Grrrr....


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 01, 2007, 02:31:09 PM
Yeah and I'm still waiting on heavy tanks.

Mrbloodworth, I'm not sure what you are rambling around about, but there is some legit bitching about certain things, and even if you think it is balanced, well that is your opion.

MCG's still seem to own more than the Jack or the Lash.  I say this from the fact that I see a lot of people picking them up and using them if from the other empires, and the fact that in close combat that is common in planetside when you are out of your vehicles the MCG is a great choice.

Your statement on that BFR's should have kept their supper shield is the same thing I bitched against.  I'm a driver, I love to drive tanks, I love to drive buggies, I love to drive delivers and there variants, hell I've even sticked Gal's when needed.  The BFR shield would have made it easier for them to own an armored colum.  And hell you don't see alot of that anymore either.  When was the last time you saw people rolling out 2 tanks, 4 APC's (uptill recently the raider if fully crewed would have been the best set up), 4 scouts/support (empire buggies x 2--great speed and firepower and flag running, 2 skyguards) and an AMS.
To do that if you were TR would require
6 in the tanks (need 3 in each tank)
20 in the raider (5 in each)
6 in the buggie (3 in each)
4 in the skyguard (2 each)
1 in the AMS
That is 37 people in a paltoon.  They bring a hole helluva alot of hurt on anything in their path while mounted, and when they dismount, let say that all but the drives were in rexo and had MCG's and Strikers that would be one helluva base clearing.  The problem TR has is fielding that many and keeping it together (hell that is all the empires though).  BTW, tanks function like tanks in TR and NC, I'll get to that bitch in bit.

Buggies are pretty balanced, slight edge to the Van for the nice buggie they have, but they are really hard to learn to drive.  Van have a nice all purpose (which in the scout role is great) buggie, it can engage any type of enemy (as long as it remember to hit and get the hell outof dodge), can take a few hits, and can go lots of places (this is the vehicle that makes water crossing so much nicer).  TR is hell on wheels against infantry and pretty tough and fun...just hate aircraft with it.  NC's is pretty good against all (but hard to nail infantry since the rocket doesn't splash much...great agains aircraft or vehicles), good all around as far as handling.

Tanks!  Vanu got robbed.  The Magrider is supposed to be great because it can go anywhere, is faster, can turn great, and has a longer range main gun.  Truth is, it is hard for people to learn to drive (new players have spoken up about the ease of the NC/TR treads to get them where the want to go), hard for the gunner to get a hit (little splash damage), main gun does less damage (about 21 shots to destroy another tank, vs 12 for the prowler on it and 8 from a vanguard to kill it), can't stay up in the fight and provide support as long (when your pressing a base you want the infantry to have cover while you advance, if your tanks have to run and heal because they are getting chewed up quicker it sucks), and have to be used more in a light tank version than a medium tank version.  Most of planetside terran doesn't allow for the added range to come into play.  The other two tanks are pretty well matched and can provide the support needed to advance and hold a position.

Light tanks haven't got any luv...  :sad_panda:  they need something to make them a little more fun, sometimes I think the ATV's are a better choice.

BTW, who is the idiot that thought all those freakin mines were a great idea!  Grrrr....

Im going to leave you with your opinion.

But i will let you know about the last update.

Combat Engineering has undergone a few more changes since Advanced Engineering was introduced.  This update should make deployables easier to manage and speed up gameplay.  Check out what's new:

    * Equipment that you deploy yourself will be a different color from other friendly deployables on both the field and overhead map.  This color can be changed in your options menu and should make identifying your deployables quite a bit easier!
    * Double-clicking on any deployable you own on the overhead map will open a prompt asking if you want to deconstruct that deployable.  No more misplacing a TRAP and sitting there shooting it until it's destroyed!  Now you can choose which deployable will deconstruct and when!
    * If you leave a planet and don't come back within 60 minutes, all your deployables on that zone will deconstruct (This includes staying offline for over 60 minutes).  This will hopefully keep deployables near the fighting and keep other areas relatively clean.
    * If you deploy some equipment with one character and then switch to a different character, your old deployables will instantly deconstruct.  This should eliminate an exploit where a player could lay down CE then switch characters, benefitting from the CE without having to acquire any engineering certifications.
    * We've also made one slight change to the Sunderer variants: they can now be transported in Lodestars.  Watch for falling base crashers!


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Jimbo on June 02, 2007, 09:35:56 AM
Yah for the mine changes!  I would be driving and have to swerve and hope out and fix the vehicle, while straz was like, "damn another minefield out in the middle of nowhere."

I should state that I haven't seen a full armored colum in years.  I see mostly smaller forces, except on oshur.  Oshur is diffrent, so you will see delivers, buggies, and light tanks working together (though most people will only put 3 people in a deliver).

BTW, I wish the veteran rewards were by account, and not by how old the character is...


Title: Re: If you havent played Planetside Lateley.
Post by: Strazos on June 02, 2007, 10:41:51 AM
Yes, I also love the CE change. About Fucking Time.

*Driving Along Merrily...*

"(over Vent) ...mines" *boom boom boom*

"Awww....damnit...." /gluegun