f13.net

I've never seen much reason to buy a console in the past, since the games I like are mainly available on PC. But the Wii is different enough that I recently picked one up. This is literally my first console. Ever.

Entering the console world has opened up the possibility of buying used games. I've read various articles from people who somehow consider the used market "immoral" because the original developer doesn't get a cut of the re-sale. Can anyone explain why used games are different from used books or cars or lampshades?

Joke thread?

Well, one reason some people are not huge fans of the used games market is because a lot of stores, especially EBstop, actively and aggressively dissuade people from buying new copies of games whenever possible.

Used games = more money for middle man, no money for devs.

Companies really need to be better about selling their old games on the cheap, direct-like. I'm talking to you, Firaxis.

Nope, not a joke. I'm genuinely interested. Every now and then, I see a scree about sales of used games, but I've never understood the issue.

Ok, so it's really about publishers wishing they were licensing us games instead of selling them to us. But there's no reason I should feel any more badly about buying a used game than about buying a used car...?

He didn't say publishers. He said developers.

No one expects you to give a shit about the publisher.

Completely unrelated, but more devs/publishers need to offer backorder catalogs of old games, or download solutions, or Something. I'm sure there could be plenty of profit.

They're not.

I don't buy anything used because you just don't know where it's been.

I'll buy used any day of the week if I can't buy it new.  If the publisher has decided it isn't worth selling any more and I still want it, too bad for them as my money goes to whoever actually sells the game.  I can understand why they would stop selling them though, 10 year old games don't sell as well as the newest whizbang technology to all the cool kiddies and they do occupy shelf space that could be better served for newer games.

But I really hate buying used games as it really is a crap shoot whether the thing was even taken care of.  I hated finding a hard to obtain game at some big chain only to see it scratch to hell and back.  Sure, they'll give you your money back if it doesn't work (maybe) but who wants to get home and find out it doesn't work, only to go back out and get the money back and be out the time and irritation?

I buy used when I want to make a point.

That point being, the developer doesn't DESERVE my money. Otherwise, I'll go to hell and back to find new copies.

You're an odd one, that's for sure.

EB doesn't make it worthwhile to buy used games these days. $5 less than a new copy on games that are in print is stupid and their cheap tactic of making you get an EDGE card to counteract the shitty price is even worse. I wish that company would burn. Ugh, I'm not even going to get started...

Some companies don't deserve the $3 I might make off spending $5 more.

So sorry.

On that same note, the only reason they can pull this shit is because 1. There's no Competition and 2. Because there's no competition, game publishers won't lay down the other shoe and stop shipping them games if they sell them used within the first 2 months.

This is the main reason I don't buy used. From EB anyway. The only exception being when something I want is totally out of print and used is the only way ai can get it. This has happened a total of once.

I've bought used games from other individuals in the past - I have no issues there.

Considering the shape of same of the games I've sold back to EB, I wouldn't ever actually BUY a used game from them.

I traded in my old Xbox for basically two new 360 controllers and I thought that was a heck of a deal since my Xbox could read a disc only about 25% of the time. Luckily, when I took it in and they did their "testing" it fired up on the 2nd try.

I will buy used games from friends though.

At least when I sell a used copy, I try to give out a decent disc. Also, I'm a bitch with trade-ins; the store manager might take just about anything in, just to get a dumb sub, but I have no qualms about marking a disc down because it's in shitty condition and then scolding the owner for being a lazy shit with their gear.


I mean, fuck, is it that hard to put the disc away when it's not in use? People must be using them for Frisbees or some shit.

I'll buy used whenever I can to save money, except on games I HAVE to have when it first comes out. Games are too fucking expensive as it is. I think most people hate EB's used games thing because they sell a used copy of a new game for $5 off, when they bought it for half that price.

I do hate what EB/Gamestop has done with their business lately, though. Because margins are so high on used games and trade ins, they stock half a store with used, then order only the biggest releases in quantity, forcing you to either preorder to get smaller games or fight with the other retards for the one copy of the game they got in that wasn't a preorder. FUCK YOUR PREORDERS, SHITBAGS.

Margins on used games have been this high for nearly 10 years at EB. And half the store was always used games. There's nothing lately about it.

I don't get it. What's the goddamn problem with preordering? Of ALL the problems with the retail sector, this is the least of my concerns.

It either locks you into getting your game from that store or causes the extra hassle of going in to do a return on your pre-order.  One of the few games I've pre-ordered was FFXII at Gamestop.  When the game released, CC had the game on sale for $37.99, so I had to go through the trouble of doing a return.  When added to the fact that very few retailers near me have a problem keeping most games I'm interested in stocked, in addition to the fact that just about anything I want that I can't find can be ordered over Amazon with no shipping costs (thanks to Prime), the only thing that will ever get me to preorder again is if there's a decent free item that comes with the preorder.

Oh please. Really? That 3 minutes out of your day that actually ends up COSTING Gamestop money is too much of a hassle?

Comeon, that's a piss poor reason to not preorder. Having to do a return. That's clown shoes.

It's usually easy enough to call them up and move the preorder to another game.  I don't preorder much as stores pretty much always have a spare copy floating around.  This is in Tucson, where the only things that draw a crowd are FF and WoW.

What about the Madden of the Southwest? Ya know, FIFA. :P

It's more than 3 minutes out of my day, and it's for something that never would have provided me much benefit in the first place.  Preordering games more often than not is like preordering DVD's.  There's just no reason at all for me to do it.  If Gamestop doesn't want to stock new games, there's a TRU and a Target nearby that will.  I'm not sure how things are in your area, but where I live, there isn't really any kind of shortage of stores around here that carry video games.

I can't be assed to return things.  I'm a busy man.  It might be three minutes if I lived inside the EB, but I don't.  I also take great offense at the principle of giving some shitgobbler my money to hold while I could be carrying it around in my pocket or exchanging it for an actual good or service.  I would rather just do some legwork after a game hits retail, assuming it passes the critical analysis and becomes a must-buy.

I don't mind picking something up used if there's no new copies available, but that's about as far as it goes. I like having the original box, manual, etc., and the "extra" $5 is worth it for that. And it's also not an option for PC games, which was all I bought until recently.

What I really don't like about EBStop is that about 95% of the stores have shit managers and shit clerks who try to push preorders, strategy guides, art books, and used copies down your throat.

Fortunately, I've recently found one nearby that has not only really good employees/management (they've never once mentioned any of the shit above), but they're also simply good fun people who will stop and chat for a few minutes about games while ringing up your purchase. They do pretty well on spur-of-the-moment recommendations too.

I try to give that store as much of my business as possible now.

As far as preorders go, I only preorder stuff I really really want, am confident in purchasing, and don't expect the store to have extra copies of, which is pretty rare. Oblivion comes to mind.

It's not like a preorder costs you anything; it's not an extra charge or something. And besides, if you end up getting the game somewhere else, you can always migrate the reserve next time you happen to go to the store, whether that's 2 weeks later, or 6 months.

Plus, it saves you from having to run around when the game comes out.





Also, I really hate when people constantly try to sell the damn guides. The only game I have ever tried to sell the guide with is Pokemon, and that's because Pokemon is the sort of game where a guide can be VERY useful. Otherwise, the guides are fucking stupid. A guide for Fight Night, or Madden? Really? Fuck that. And even other games, like a FF or some other large game, you always have the internet to fall back on.

PS: Doublejump's Disgaea 2 guide pennied-out a few days ago, so you may be able to get one for free if you know someone...or something.

A preorder costs me an extra trip to the store, unless I was going to buy something anyway.  Why not just order it online and have it shipped to me?  I don't live in the Pioneer West.

My favored EB is within walking distance of my primary sources of clothing, appliances and various other goods. I'm usually down in that area at least once every week or two either for myself or with friends. So for me, it's not much of a hassle.

If you only go near a store once every six months though, then yeah, the double-trip isn't worth it.

I agree.  The closest EB to me is probably four miles and I have to drive through a nasty knot of traffic.  On the other hand, I can stop by a Gamestop just off the interstate on my way home and they usually have at least one copy of each current Atlus game on the shelf when I walk in.  The staff is also rather nice a generally knowledgeable, or at least not ignoranguatans.  I also have to account for being home to wrangle the wife and boy instead of standing in line somewhere.  For me, not worth it.

I live alone. Ordering the game online means waiting for them to attempt to deliver it, failing, and then waiting for it to get dropped off at the post office where I still have to go pick it up from.

Pre-ordering=luv. They call me when it's in, I get it on day one (which is very important, I'm one of those impulsive types), and as sad as it sounds, the service at the EB's is a hell of a lot better than I get trying to pick something up at the post office.

As far as used games go - generally I'm looking for savings. Picked up NHL2K7 for $19.95. If it's only $5 cheaper, I'd likely not bother.

Getting it on day 1 for someone who posts on an internet forum should be important. Otherwise who knows what spoilers you might encounter.

The pre-order thing isn't nearly as harcore here as they seem to be over in the US with you guys. EB also has some new heavy-duty aggressive competition in my city from a chain called JB Hi-Fi, who are, well, very aggressive sellers of the ever-increasing range of shit that they sell which now includes PC and console games.

And Haem, EB didn't pay half that for the game used. Try 1/4 to 1/3  to 1/5 more realistically. I'd rather buy new for the extra $5-10 and get an unmauled manual and a disc that I know hasn't been covered with snot or semen. I'm sure we differ, but if saving money was that important to me, I'd continue to get "backups" as I did when I was younger. (Instead I find myself buying legit copies of some of those PC games I played years ago).

Pre-orders? If you don't have to preorder to get a game, then why bother? I have two FLGS (friendly local game store) that I also shop at, both of which sell me games at far below EB's inflated new release (and older release) prices. Not to mention the option of going to a Big W or K Mart who will have any big new release discounted in their catalogue by a good $10-20 a week after release (which EB will then match). I don't know about over there, but pre-orders don't generally get you anything off a game's price here. They might net you a key chain or poster or somesuch for some selected games that they're pushing. I have to say though, that EB's sales seem to be almost always worth checking out. Tables full of 2-for-$50 games (remember, games here cost double the US prices,so I guess that would be the same as 2-for-$25) can be quite worthwhile if you don't find the time to play everything on release day or game at a more relaxed rate than Schild.

They do, however seem a lot less pushy with their game guides than they used to be though (ie not at all), though they still ask me if I want to insure my console discs which I'm sure is corporate policy akin to "do you want fries with that?". I'm not sure if the guide thing's in general or because they choose to not hassle the surly-looking thirtysomething guy in the same way they would a child/teenager/fresh-faced twentysomething. I find the same in GW stores these days too, actually.

Day 1? Who cares? Spoilers are easy enough to avoid, and the benefit is in seeing what's good and what's a steaming pile of shite. I'm on f13 daily and the most recent spoiler I've seen is that in GoW2 Kratos kills a bunch of the panthenon. Not exactly a hugely story-driven game, and not that surprising given the game, either. I guess also, day 1 doesn't matter when a lot of titles don't get a simultaneous worldwide release.

Lately, as in since Gamestop bought out EB. PC games have been gutted since that happened, as well as supporting hardware (peripherals) for PC's and consoles.


It's rewarding fuckers when they haven't done anything yet. It's great for Gamestop, not so good for the consumer when the game turns out to be shit in a box, or is a bugfuck mess like say most MMOG's on release day. And it's a hassle to cancel. And it's annoying as fuck to pimped on by some slackjawed scrote sliming over me to preorder games I've not even heard of everytime I want to buy something. Shut up, ring up my used copy of whatever I'm buying and did I mention SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Preordering is almost as bad as paying for betas these days.

What the hell are you talking about?

Why are you preordering games that are going to be shit in a box?

Sometimes, something promises to be something special.

Sometimes, or often. It's not.


Fable was the last game I pre-ordered.

And I play at a slow/relaxed enough rate that the 1-week return policy wasn't long enough for me to get my moneys back.


There's lots of games out there that are worth the EB Sale/Platinum/Greatest Hits/6-months-or-2-years-old discounted PC price but not worth the near-enough $100 to get on release day.

I have four games on pre-order at this very moment.  RIGHT NOW!

I'll be honest. I very well may have 20 games on preorder. It covers May and June.

Well, I have more money friends boobies luggage than you!

I have a lot of luggage.

Seriously, stop patronizing the stores that employ these fuckers and have these policies. I stopped using the nearby EB when I was in LA because of this, and I hadn't used the local SF ones either until I found a store that doesn't do that shit.

Order online if you have to. They'll ship used.

So according to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_rr_game06_1219expensivegames.html), retailers get about a 25% markup over wholesale on new games. So the 100% markup you're claiming for used games is a big difference.

I'm guessing, though, that retailers get to return new stock they don't sell to the publishers, whereas they're stuck with used games they can't shift. I'm also guessing that the $5 below new price is a small part of the whole picture -- certainly the used games I've seen for sale are usually enormously less than new price.

But I'm sure Schild will set me straight.

Retailers almost never get to return stock.

That's why EBStop has switched to this preorder system and Best Buy and other big box stores have started doing that. Especially with PC Games. I could explain why, but it's not worth the time, I'm tired.

Suffice it to say, the preorder system makes sense. Why publishers and developers put up with EBStop letting people trade in stolen merch from walmart so they have used items the first week is unacceptable. NPD #s would be a whole lot different if EBStop weren't a bunch of penny pinching sons of bitches.

Edit: Oh, I think Walmart might get to ship non-PC items back. They never tend to have old games that long. Of course, they might just ship them out to stores in middle america where dumb hicks by 3 year old copies of Tak 2 for $10.

I can't find it at the moment, but there was a post awhile back about some internet company discontinuing their game sales division. The inability to return stuff that doesn't sell was one reason cited that the company couldn't profit from games.

Also, another reason that these places are ordering in less and less new merch has something to do with when big price drops occur, the retailers who bought the stuff at the original price don't get any money back. Apparently, this is something that does actually happen in other areas of retail, but not video games. Basically, if you order in a lot of copies of something, and it doesn't sell, the publisher/distributor just says "fuck you." Solution: only order in enough to cover reserves + (a small number), in order to minimize risk.



As an aside, I reserved Odin Sphere today. I wouldn't trust my store to get more than a single copy if there were no reserves.

I get nothing out of a preorder, plain and simple.  TRU, Best Buy, Target... all within a reasonable distance to me, and unlike Gamestop and EB, they all tend to stock most of the games I'm looking forward to.  Schild wants to call something clownshoes?  Go ahead and call the Gamestop near me which didn't get ANY copies of God of War II  in on the release day other than what was preordered clownshoes.

Strazos - I think that was DVD Empire.

As for the GoW2 pre-order bullshit, that sounds like they're trying to "train" their local customers to pre-order. Luckily there's enough competition in my area that that shit doesn't fly around here.

It should be, but I have been failing at Internet lately.  If there is something I really should be preordering, I'm OK with that but I need to be told what that is.

What I'm using for upcoming games (http://www.f13.net/schild/release_list_to070107.html).

That gave me four more preorders!

Careful, you might Ding.

I will try to put down a preorder for Etrian Odyssey on the 16th when I go to get... wait, did Atelier Iris 3 move?  Anyway, I need something for the DS.  Children of Mana is dildos.  Time to go get Portrait of Ruin, I can drop by to get that on the 16th or 17th and maybe Etrian Odyssey will be there, too.

I only visit the EB store when I absolutely have to (like returning LotRO when online CS is hassling me). I've also had enough bad experiences pre-ordering online that I just wait until a game comes out and order it online normally, with ground shipping. I'm definitely not a 'gotta have it on release day' type.

I don't undestand why pc gamers don't just buy online...you have a pc! I get delivery to the office, it's like mini-christmas.

Why don't PC gamers just download their games?  LOLZ?

It's a lot harder to sell it used then... :-D

The chance for pretty much any game I haven't beta'ed to be shit in a box with the standards of Video Game Industry QA these days are pretty fucking good, especially if that game is an MMOG. Barring MMOG's that are made by Blizzard, finding a copy of a new MMOG at an EB on release day are next to nil if you haven't pre-ordered, and again I won't preorder if I haven't beta'ed. Not that I'm in the market for new MOG's anyway, as nothing has been worth playing on release day since WoW. But it's the principle which sands my labia in this case.

Also, the $5 off used games are only for those released in the last say month or two (or the really popular ones). Most are a decent amount off, especially as the games get older. There's nothing I love more than getting X-Box games that I missed on release for $3.

If they did it as ISO downloads or something, I probably would. Heck, as long as it would fit on a DVD I would still probably do it.

Thing is, not everyone has broadband, but most pc gamers have some kind of dial-up, or you can use the online capabilities at the library. And not all broadband is created equal. I was jamming with a certain download last weekend 775K/s. Blam.

I'm signed up for a 1Mbps service but I can never seem to get more than 128Kbps.  When I try my ISP's speed tester or any other independent download test they always come back saying 1Mbps though.  I don't know what's wrong, I've even tried bypassing my router and plugging my computer right into the intarweb.

Pisses me off.

I have the same actual speed, too, and I have the 3Mbps service.  Well, maybe it is 8Mbps now.  Doesn't really matter, it's all theory anyway.

Move to a ghetto where you're the only one who can afford a cable modem. It's like having my own private subnet.

Final Fantasy 4 is getting a remake for the DS. With teh FF3 3d engine. I demand you all buy that NEW. Got it? Good.

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.

Jesus would play Odin Sphere. And love it.

True. Jesus is just a dirty console hippy kid. Odin wouldn't play Odin Sphere, though. Odin's a pc gamer, I have it on good authority. Thor does a great overclocking job by jumping up the voltage. Just don't use Loki's OS.

That would be because I don't like paying shipping for no reason, and I like to shop around. The wife or I go through/past the various places that sell them often enough that stopping past a place is a casual thing. Also, unlike many other things I buy, shopping online doesn't actually save me any money.



For all the reasons people have said - varying broadband speeds, etc, but also I have a monthly download limit that I need to use for quality television programming that may never reach my shores. I also like the physical package - If I'm paying retail, then I want the whole retail package, even if that's only the original disc in a DVD case with a token insert and printed colour cover. (If I'm just playng a download/burnt download, I may as well just play warez).



I don't have a DS. But I'm willing to consider buying one if you pre-order, purchase and ship me a copy of FF4 to play on it. New, of course.




That's pretty messed up, and luckily isn't the case over here where even EB seems to have near-adequate stock of most new releases. At the same time, I've never seen a used title that cheap, even allowing for a currency conversion. For $5, yeah, I could see myself buying some stuff as long as it wasn't scratched to shit...

Yeah, some of the PS2/Xbox/GC stuff can drop pretty darn low if it's old and/or there are tons of copies around.

Used things make me nervous.  I always want to smell them but have a fear that they might smell.

Only if it's from NIS.