f13.net

http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/04/msft_and_japan_.html

It's an interesting situation because if Ballmer ever decides the xbox isn't worth all the money they are losing Microsoft could just flip a switch and shut the whole thing down without any negative repercussions.  They would actually make more money.

That said there is is no way they will do such a thing, Microsoft desperately wants inside peoples' living rooms and will blow as much money as it takes to get the job done.  They need to find new ways to grow and have the warchest to do whatever they want.

Heh. I think this was their "new way to grow" (in relation to Windows and Internet assets, etc..).  :wink:

MS is set to make a lot of money with the new announcements that the next final fantasy "isn't a ps3 exclusive" and that GTA4 will be out on the 360 and ps3 at the same time, with the game being designed for the x360.

I'd already have an x360 if it natively would play all the popular video codecs AND it would just connect to a UMB share to do so. All the proprietary crap on that front has kept me away.

Forza 2 is all that I needed to be suckered in, and I've got an x360 elite on order.

That next Final Fantasy isn't going anywhere. The engine has been too tied up with PS3 development for too long.

Perhaps the game after that one could go though. Depending on Sony really, not Microsoft.

And the only reason that's a possibility is because Squeenix purchased a UE3 license recently (but they make dozens of games...FF need not be one of them. They could very well stick with the engine they developed already).

FFXIII and FFXIII VS. aren't likely going anywhere, but as is sadly typical of Square lately, they're planning on making even more FFXIII games which will likely be on other systems in order to further milk the FF name.

I'd say it goes to the DS (in some shape or form) before it went to the XBox.

Nope, the DS will remain there for FF sidestories.

Edit: At least I hope I don't have to eat those words.

Edit 2: As for Microsoft losing billions. Who gives a fuck. They have it in liquid. Sony is in worse shape. Next.

So this is bullshit? http://www.ps3center.net/story-394.html (http://www.ps3center.net/story-394.html)

I don't really care - FF games aren't for me.

edit: a better article, http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/04/18/final-fantasy-xiii-games-not-limited-to-ps3-and-mobile/ (http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/04/18/final-fantasy-xiii-games-not-limited-to-ps3-and-mobile/)

That's a weird article.

"Confirmed!"


But I don't see a link or a quote anywhere. I want to hear the official news, if there is any. The only thing I know about is from a couple of weeks ago, where some Sony official said they were in talks with Squeenix about exclusivity deals, and that nothing was certain. After that, a bunch of news sites popped up saying it'd be on the 360. Sheesh.

Not sure if this news is related to that press agent's words or not though. Because the writer of that article doesn't link anything at all.

That article is a mess.

The article isn't bullshit, it just gets the details wrong.  I've seen this story on other sites, and it's coming from an interview with Motomu Toriyama in the Australian Playstation magazine which essentially says that the overall Fabula Nova Crystalis thing won't just be exclusive to PS3 and cell phones.

MS has been trying to get a box into the living room for a long time now, even with WebTV junk. The problem is they have a tin-ear for general consumer wants.

MS needs to get someone like Treasure to make games for them.

Come to think of it, when's the last time treasure's even made a game?

Treasure is converting Ikaruga to XBLA.

Then they're doing...damnit...something.

Cave needs to start porting their shooters to XBLA as well. Starting with Ketsui, EspGaluda 1/2 (bundle plz), and DoDonPachi DOJ.

I imagine "not exclusive to cell phones and the PS3" means PSP and DS. None of the main console series is going to the 360 thanks to the White Engine. They have bought a license for the Unreal 3 engine though, so SquareEnix titles on the 360 is definitely possible.

As for the MS losing billions thing, nothing new. MS will throw twice that much down the toilet before they give up, especially since the PS3 has stumbled so badly.

I think tons of lols would come from the Saga series going to the 360. With some sort of prototype multiplayer the likes of which we've never seen. I mean, those games suck already. let's make them more fucked up.

I think Front Mission would be a better fit for the 360, or possibly Parasite Eve.

Don't joke about parasite eve.

Just sayin' Parasite Eve would seem like a good fit for the 360.  Oh and Einhander also.

I would love both of those. And Bushido Blade.

I can't see anyone doing anything to Bushido Blade without fucking it in the ass.  I mean, look at Bushido Blade 2.  I wouldn't trust a team of MIT grads to do a simple graphical update.

The Saga series started off really good but then turned to shit. Dunno what happened there, it's like they are having a contest to see who can make the worst Saga game now.

Man, Bushido Blade. I've been in several fist fights because I kept using one of the girls and the rapier, and jabbing people in the neck as soon as the round started.

I love that game.

And this is why I don't dog-pile on schild when he does get a little crazy.

Microsoft decides to throw away billions. So the fuck what. They have it to throw away more than any other company on earth right now, irrespective of industry. Christ paying dividends is optional for them.

Microsoft has a long, long, long, history of throwing money at market segments they want to gain a foothold in. They were pretty clear with Xbox 1 that they were willing to take a shower to get into our hearts and minds.

And I'm not an anti-Sony fanatic - I will very likely own a PS3 in the future. But at the moment if you're a gamer and you don't have a 'second gen' console the 360 is the best buy currently. Little question there. Sony loses money on every PS3 - Microsoft loses money on every 360. Look at the balance sheets - they can both afford it - Microsoft can just afford to go a little farther in their indulgence.

This will be a mouthful (also, I'm not trying to doomcast), but hear me out:

As a gamer, I personally don't really care how much MS loses. I know they have quite a cushion of private, past earned cash to help them rebound from things. Fair enough. But it does matter as far overall company and division health is concerned (strictly business speaking, relying on wealth, and not on earnings is bad news).

In this respect, Sony isn't as bad as you think. They have their hands in so many things, most of which are performing well (some incredibly well, like the LCD's and PS2). That doesn't put them in worse shape. They're in good enough shape that analysts upped their stock last week, and projected profits throughout the rest of the business year (May07 to 08, I believe).

Speaking gaming hardware specifically: While the PS3 is performing abysmally, they have other things to offset that (the PS2 and PSP -- and the games). Gaming-wise, Microsoft doesn't have that luxury. They just have a still pond of cash to rely on here. How is that better? Their other divisions can only support themselves. Vista isn't exactly Windows 95 redux to say the least; they're getting their asses kicked by Google in the Internet sector; Apple wins the media player war; their server market is dwindling. The Xbox brand was one of the things meant to help them expand out of the desktop and server computing market -- something to safeguard them from that other bullshit. But what safeguards the XBox brand itself? Sony has the PS2 and PSP. Nintendo has the DS and GBA. Microsoft has nothing at the moment.

Another thing, even though the PS3 is selling less units a month than a 360, it's probably making the same amount of cash just because it's more expensive (probably making similar amounts of cash as the Wii too). So, even though it's not gaining marketshare, it still offers a similar amount of cashflow. In a sense, the PS3 is still making the same amount of money as the other two consoles, even when losing valuable marketshare (I'm not saying that's ideal. I'm just saying).

Also, like I said, they also have additional cashflow from other products. Microsoft doesn't have anything equivalent to keep their gaming division out of the dumps:

For example, here are the March NPD Hardware results:

PlayStation 2 - 280K
Wii - 259K
Xbox 360 - 199K
PlayStation Portable - 180K
PlayStation 3 - 130K

Lastly, and strangely, the PS3 is a success in Europe so far. Almost 900k units sold already. Time will tell how that'll pan out, but so far, all signs point to it not being the same story as the US and JP. It's had a better launch period than the 360 has.

Huh? Your argument makes absolutely no sense at all. On one hand you say that Sony benefits from the profits in other divisions and yet the billions and billions and billions MS makes on OS and Office sales somehow don't get to benefit their Entertainment division?

Um ok. If you're speaking gaming hardware specifically (to quote) why are you talking about Google and Apple's impact on Microsoft? You start out by saying that Sony has the PS2 and PSP in the gaming market to support them (and by limiting your topic to gaming only to ignore the terrible performance of some Sony departments) but then in the next sentence attack Microsoft on Vista, Google and the Apple media fight?

Um. WTF dude? I don't have any vested interest in Microsoft and actually agree with some of what you say but this is some of the worst logic ever - talk about gaming only. Or talk about the overall business. But don't limit your discussion to how Sony owns gaming, and Microsoft is losing market share in media and server markets. Way to destroy your own argument.

I don't know. I saw recent news that Microsoft is going to start offering Windows and Office bundles in Asia for $3 (one of the reasons is to compete with Google, I think....Again). If they're looking to grab markets like that, those kind of initiatives speak of desperation to me.


I could be wrong though, I'll admit. We can just talk about gaming divisions if you like.

Probably a good idea since you started that discussion with "Speaking gaming hardware specifically:" and then highlighted only Sony's gaming strengths and only Microsoft's non-gaming threats...

That has no bearing at all on the billions MS currently makes. They don't sell any copies over there (well maybe a couple hundred copies of Vista so far in China). It's all pirated so anything they can sell over there is just extra. If they decided to sell Windows and/or Office here in the US or Europe for $3 a copy that's any entirely different situation.

Cool enough.

If the last line in my post wasn't clear enough, it was an apology. ;)

Sorry!

[EDIT] This is in no way meant to be a retraction on that apology, but my basic point was that it seemed like the XBox brand undercuts Microsoft's overall bottom line more than the PS3 does for Sony. That Microsoft's other products have enough expenses of their own to take of, while Sony's other products have a better trickling down effect.

Anyways, I'll drop it. It's gotten more convoluted than I thought at first.

Dunno about that - it's an interesting topic. After all, despite the criticism of the Wii in terms of technical capability and titles, the thing is selling a ton of units and is profitable on each one. But they have to be, they don't have other business units to support them. Sony has lost a lot of ground in some areas it used to be the unquestionable owner of (never mind Apple eating Msoft - ummm....walkman???), but by the same token Sony has a lot of business that is doing quite well. (Sony TV's are selling as well as ever for instance.)

Microsoft on the other hand is less distributed but Windows and Office licenses combined with their vast Enterprise licensing schemes and low cost structure have tonnes of cash on hand.

Sony's primary differentiator in the gaming arena is the continued dominance of the PS2. I can't help but wonder if that's something they wish wasn't so. After all every PS2 title in development now and every PS2 unit sold is a potential loss for the PS3.

On a sidenote, SOE is probably the most wasteful piece of shit division Sony has. I forgot about them. Worse yet, it is game related.

So, I guess this will be another correction. The PS3 isn't the only thing screwing up Sony's game division.

Stray, that was a mess.

Let's be clear, for every 360 they lost $50 on, they sell like 50 copies of Office to a corporation for 100 times the profit. This is fuzzy math, but it's the truth. Losing money in games is a fucking joke to win the couches and hearts of middle America.

As for SOE. Hi. They're profitable. Companies cut off bad limbs. There's a reason SOE hasn't been cut off.

No it doesn't. Using today's Yen to Dollar conversion rate, Sony had revenues of around US$63 billion for FY 2006 with an operating income of US$1.6 billion. That's a piddly 2.6% operating profit margin. Their largest division by far, Electronics, is actually losing money for Sony. Their Games division had revenues of $8 billion and operating income of $73 million. Sony's also currently sitting on $2.2 billion in cash.

In comparison MS for FY 2006 had revenues of $44 billion but $16.4 billion in operating income for a staggering 37% operating profit margin (it's good to be a monopoly). Their Home and Entertainment division with includes the Xbox stuff (they don't break it out separately) had revenues of $4.2 billion and a loss of $1.3 billion. Microsoft has $34 billion in cash.

In other words MS, despite having less revenue than Sony is making an order of magnitude more profit than Sony and they have an order of magnitude more cash than Sony. Their H&E division would have to be losing $15 billion a year for MS to drop down to the same profit margin that Sony is currently running at. To put that into perspective they could *give away* 30 million Xbox 360s a year and still be making more profit than Sony.

Edit: actually it's a lot more than 30 million since I forget that distributors and retailers take a cut of that $399 retail price (i.e. the full $399 doesn't show up as revenue for MS).

OK, I appreciate the work, Trippy.

I want a free 360 now.

Man I would Kill for parasite eve on 360.

I like the new guy.

It'll ship when my free PS3 from your profitable Sony arrives :P

EDIT: Which without any sarcasm will likely be in August or so as that's when I'll buy a PS3. Sorry Stray, doubt we can ship you a frree 360 tho.

Eh, I know I'll end up getting one by the time Forza 2 rolls out. Just biding my time here.  :-)


I'm starting to get a little gloomy about both machines though. When people start praising Dewey's Adventure, I get gloomy. The Wii looks to be kicking ass for the forseeable future because of stuff like that. If it can somehow win hearts from that kind of tripe (even before being released), then I fear what happens after 2007, after developers have moved more A teams on to Wii projects and actually crank out a decent game or two. Further, if they start making mad cash from those decent games, then it'll just mean less teams working on and more gaps between quality titles on the 360 and PS3.

I just hope there aren't enough gaps as to make those systems collect dust in between whatever good games they do get. If that remains the case, then purchasing the hardware won't feel like a waste.

Ok. At least I know you're sane. Cause F2 is gonna be it. You know. IT.

imsorrybutlostplanetanddeadrisingarealreadyout.

Like I said, just biding my time. I've had a lot on my plate since January. Nothing to snub the 360 specifically. :)

Unfortunately, when I do get it, I'm gonna have to play catch up. That's a lot of games.

[EDIT] Unintentional funny. Here I was a minute ago complaining about a possible lack of future games.

Now I'm bitching about having to get too many games.

I think you just dodged 90% of the new-guy hazing.

EDIT: Dead Rising is awesome.  Also, I'm going to try to get my 360 online this weekend and join the rest of the gaming world.

That was the game with the cutscenes right?


Seriously though, it wasn't one of my favorites.

What?  Mall full of zombies, large variety of weapons... it has some cutscences but they are skippable.  It's also hard, by which I mean Capcom Hard.

i meant Parasite Eve. I've barely played Dead Rising.  :-)

[EDIT]

Me = Capcom fanboi. I do want Dead Rising and Lost Planet. They just happen to be on a system I don't have yet.

Parasite Eve was chock full of cutscenes.

Weird thing about Lost Planet vs Dead Rising. Yea, Dead Rising was hard. Lost Planet though? Fucking cakewalk. I'm not sure what Mikami was up to.

I/you/Stray/we can't stress this enough.

I really wish they would just remake the first one for next-gen, but it won't happen. Guess I'll have to ebay the original and take the hit.

Going back to the Squeenix thing, anyone else read this? (http://www.psu.com/node/9941?)

A FFVII remake for the 360 would be nice.

Yea, RPG fan reported on it a while ago.

Honestly though, they need to remake FFVI on next-gen more than VII.

The thing is, with the exception of the FF3 remake on the DS, all the GBA stuff has pretty much been ports of the old games with a few additions, while an FFVII remake would take a sizeable team.  I don't see it becoming any more likely just because Square realized they can make good money with little effort off of old ports.  I'd expect to see DS and PSP ports of Front Mission, Saga, Mana, and various PS1 games on the PSP, before we'll see a FFVII remake on a next-gen system.

I wouldn't mind seeing Live A Live updated. Or Rudras, or G.

Really, they have a freaking treasure trove. And while I expect a bunch of shovelware at first, they wouldn't miss the chance to hit hard with a next-gen remake of 4, 6, or 7. They would be insane not to.

They'd be better off waiting for more people to buy into the next-gen systems before they do.  As it is, they're already pouring a lot of money into their FFXIII stuff.  Pouring even more into those kind of remakes wouldn't be the best idea for them right now.

Square-Enix doesn't really need to wait for systems to sell. With the proper game, the company sells systems. If Sony doesn't court SE to make 6 or 7 next-gen, they're crazy. Mostly because Microsoft probably already is doing just that.

If anything deserves a remake, it's Chrono Trigger/Cross and Bushido Blade.

But of course, I know it won't happen. FF will probably get preferential treatment. ON THE DS.

As cute as FF3 was, they can't do that shit with SNES titles. FF3 DS looks worse than FF6 GBA. By far.

Man, I really hope Square doesn't start doing ports. Their games take long enough to develop as it is. We'll be senile by the time FF14 drops if they plan on releasing it to both the 360 and PS3.

That and it makes no sense for them in Japan since more people have a fucking Colecovision in Japan than a 360.

Either way, it's a million to two million sold on whichever one. In Japan alone. I doubt an Xbox 360 or PS3 would do that. They barely even have a million systems total and combined in Japan.

The Wii could do it maybe, but strangely, that's more heartbreaking to me than DS ports.


[EDIT] Oops. Fixed quote. ;)

Fuck Japan, bunch of non-gamers. Square would be more successful making Chocobo Age - Brain Training for your Tiny Yellow Subservient Birds.

Amazingly enough, Square-Enix does sell games outside of Japan from time to time.

It's just that they usually sell considerably more there. One could argue that they aren't really necessary, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt (in Square's eyes, that is).

For example,

FF XII
--------
JP:  2.42 Million
US: 1.68
Others: 840k