f13.net

Discussion about the Mind Flayer ripoffs in the Vanguard thread made me all nostalgic about D&D adventures in the Underdark.  And so it got me thinking about why there hasn't been a MMO game/expansion which dealt with it, or a ripoff version of it.

I can't see why not - from my thinking it would be a nobrainer win.  You've got lots of 'established' D&D fantasy lore you can rip off, the option for adding in new races if you wanted to, you can create new home cities for established races (Drow cities for evil dark elves, deep gnomes/dwarves for the good races), and a great excuse for creating new horrors from the depths which haven't been seen in the world before.  Lore for finding this expansion is pretty easy to make up (as if it matters).

From a technical standpoint you'd probably be able to go crazy with the polys, since the genre lends itself to very few large vistas, no weather effects etc.  You got lots of small twisting tunnels, with the few large caverns, which you could legitimately fog out the distance due to your light sources not reaching far enough.  Add in a true ultravision/infravision effect for added coolness.

Has anyone done it?  EQ had about 5-6 zones in their Luclin expansion, but it wasn't anywhere too expansive.  I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of doing it yet, sounds like a winner to me.

What, you don't run into enough Drizzt clones in MMO's as is for you?

It's my contention that the best parts of an old school D&D underdark adventure just don't translate well into an MMO setting.  Small twisting tunnels foggy caves would cause (and do) all sorts of pathing issues, line of sight problems, player collision issues, not to mention travel times roadblocks and just general camera pita.

If you were one of those like me who's intro to the underdark was the D&D campaign Against the Giants which lead through that huge series of modules from giants, to the fishy underdark race, to the drow city and finally crossing over into Lolth's home on the abyss, I understand the nostalga.
But, if that was your intro, remember, that was a huge epic adventure that took your mid level characters to godlike levels of power, with no worries of others futzing up your story, and all the tedious bits time compressed away.

An MMO version of that would lead quickly to "camp check for Lloth, handmaidens, drow high preistess".

Actually, come to think of it, did you ever play the NWN1 Hordes of the Underdark expansion?  That storyline was pretty good.

My thoughts exactly. Then my head exploded.

The D&D MMO was the best chance for this. Why they set it in Eberron instead of Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk I'll never know. Well, actually, I do know. They wanted to push Eberron. But man, if they put it in the Forgotten Realms the expansions would have practically written themselves!

I was running through Felwood on my shaman the other day, mage friend in tow, when this night elf goes running by.  I don't think much of it and don't really feel like killing him, until I mouse over him and see that his name is "drizztdourden" or something to that effect.  Yeah, we turned around and stomped him good.

That's a well-deserved curb-stomping.

I bet he was a hunter with a panther named Guenhwyvar, wasn't he?


I didn't know Schilling played WoW!

Duh, it was names PEWPEWPWNZORLOLZ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depths_of_Darkhollow

Back when EQ came out and Neriak was mentioned as the dark elven city, I had envisioned it as sitting in the middle of a maze of tunnels that stretched across the continent, affording the dark elves paths to various places so they could get around without being up on the surface, where presumably the guards would kill the crap out of them.  Instead, Neriak consisted of one fairly small cave.  That made me sad.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

You are in a little maze of twisting passages, all alike.

You are in a maze of twisting little passages, all alike.

You are in a twisting maze of little passages, all alike.

You are in a twisty maze of little passages, all alike.

On a more serious note, a few MUDs have good underdark implementations. They're basically simple giant maps with procedurally-generated descriptions and enemies, with a handful of POIs tossed about.

In a 3D MMO though, I imagine being in a maze of little twisting passages would get really old really fast. People already complain about getting lost as is.

I think an Underdark variant is possible in an MMO, but the designers would have to make sure the ambient stuff was very good to separate one cave from another. For instance, I bet Blizzard would have no problem making a giant underground cavern system look fun, be complex, and have alll sorts of POI's with that art team of theirs. And if I recall someone mentioning LotRO having Moria as its own expansion... if done right, its probably the closest we'll have to it so far.

Sucker bet.  Go run Wailing Caverns and then give me your money.

See now I've never played Horde, I totally forgot about Wailing Caverns. But you see my point, they can do it. Its feasible.

I hadn't thought about the problems with pathing - that would be tricky to work out.  As for the Drizzt comments, well its just an easy way to work out who the idiots are, rather than dealing with em in a group.

I too felt ripped off by Neriak - that was exactly where I could see a cool Underdark ripoff thingy.  Apparently Vanguard has some good really big dungeons - but they aren't a fully functioning continent/zone/whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, I haven't seen anything on the horizon, so I guess its just random musings on my behalf...